Internet Computer is the ONLY 3rd Generation Blockchain | Dominic Williams
Summary
TLDRThe transcript captures a conversation from Paris Blockchain Week, discussing the evolution of blockchain technology. It outlines the progression from first-generation blockchains like Bitcoin designed for cryptocurrency transactions, to second-generation platforms like Ethereum that introduced smart contracts, and onto third-generation blockchains exemplified by the Internet Computer Protocol (ICP). ICP is highlighted for its ability to run everything on-chain, offering scalability, efficiency, and direct interaction with smart contracts. The discussion emphasizes the benefits of on-chain AI, including security, resilience, and autonomy, and how ICP's unique features, such as reverse gas models and the potential for large language model hosting, set it apart from traditional cloud services. The conversation also touches on the importance of decentralization in reducing the need for intermediaries, enhancing security, and the potential impact on cybercrime prevention. The interviewee expresses optimism about the future of blockchain in various sectors, including government and corporate domains, and mentions several innovative projects built on ICP.
Takeaways
- 🌟 The Internet Computer Protocol (ICP) is a third-generation blockchain that serves as a cloud for building applications entirely on smart contracts, offering scalability and efficiency.
- 🎨 ICP allows for the creation of applications like social networks that are autonomous, transparent, and controlled by the community, which is a core aspect of Web 3.
- 🔒 Security on ICP is enhanced as it removes the need for traditional cybersecurity measures, providing a more secure environment for applications and data.
- 🚀 ICP is unique in its ability to run AI models as smart contracts, which is a significant advancement for the blockchain space.
- ⛓️ The use of decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs) on ICP provides a way to manage and update smart contracts in a decentralized manner.
- 📈 ICP's approach to blockchain technology aims to simplify R&D, increase productivity, and reduce costs associated with traditional IT infrastructure.
- 🌐 ICP's network, through its subnet architecture, provides privacy for smart contract contents and computations, which is crucial for enterprise and government use.
- 💡 The potential of ICP extends beyond Web 3 applications, with projects like Utopia aiming to bring ICP's benefits to government and corporate domains.
- 🔗 Cross-chain functionality on ICP allows for the decentralized control and updating of Ethereum smart contracts, enhancing interoperability.
- 📊 ICP's technology is designed to be infinitely scalable and efficient, which is essential for hosting complex applications like large language models.
- ⏳ ICP is working on transitioning to a 64-bit WebAssembly virtual machine to increase the memory limit for smart contracts, enabling more complex applications to run on-chain.
Q & A
What is the Internet Computer Protocol (ICP) and how does it fit into the blockchain world?
-The Internet Computer Protocol (ICP) is a third-generation blockchain technology that serves as a cloud-like platform where smart contracts can be used to build fully decentralized applications, such as social networks. It is designed to be infinitely scalable, extremely efficient, and allows for direct interaction with code on the blockchain, which is autonomously controlled by a decentralized governance structure.
How does the Internet Computer's approach to hosting applications differ from traditional cloud services like AWS?
-Unlike traditional cloud services, the Internet Computer runs everything on-chain, which means applications are decentralized and not reliant on any single centralized infrastructure. This provides benefits such as increased security, regulatory compliance, and the ability to build fully decentralized user experiences.
What are the advantages of running AI models on the blockchain as smart contracts?
-Running AI models as smart contracts on the blockchain provides security, resilience, and autonomy. It ensures that the AI is tamper-proof, unstoppable, and does not require trust in a human intermediary, which is crucial for applications that require high levels of trust and security.
Why is full stack decentralization important in the context of Web 3.0?
-Full stack decentralization is important for Web 3.0 as it removes intermediaries, which can be sources of control, censorship, and security vulnerabilities. It empowers end-users, provides transparency, and allows for community governance, which aligns with the vision of a more open and democratic internet.
How does the Internet Computer Protocol address the issue of cybercrime and cybersecurity?
-The Internet Computer Protocol offers a fundamentally secure platform by leveraging smart contracts, which are tamper-proof and do not require traditional cybersecurity measures. This can lead to significant reductions in the costs associated with cybercrime and the complexity of IT infrastructure.
What is the significance of the Internet Computer's 'reverse gas' model?
-The 'reverse gas' model is a feature of the Internet Computer Protocol that allows smart contracts to pay for their own computation. This is significant because it enables smart contracts to serve user experiences directly, without the need for off-chain processing.
Can you provide an example of a project built on the Internet Computer Protocol?
-One example is OpenChat, a decentralized social network and crypto wallet that allows users to send messages and crypto directly through the platform. It has been running for over three years without any cybersecurity incidents, demonstrating the robustness of the Internet Computer Protocol.
What are the limitations of current blockchain technologies in terms of hosting large-scale applications?
-Current blockchain technologies often struggle with scalability and efficiency when it comes to hosting large-scale applications. They may not be able to handle heavy-duty compute tasks or store large amounts of data, which is where the Internet Computer Protocol aims to innovate by offering a more scalable and efficient solution.
How does the Internet Computer Protocol's approach to AI differ from other blockchain platforms?
-The Internet Computer Protocol is unique in its ability to run AI models directly as smart contracts on the blockchain. This is different from other blockchain platforms that may only offer limited AI capabilities or require AI models to be run off-chain.
What is the potential impact of AI advancements on cybersecurity challenges?
-AI advancements can both support and challenge cybersecurity. While AI can enhance security measures by detecting threats and improving system resilience, it can also be used by hackers to develop more sophisticated malware and automate attacks, potentially making cybersecurity challenges much more difficult in the future.
What are some of the future improvements planned for the Internet Computer Protocol?
-Future improvements for the Internet Computer Protocol include moving to a 64-bit virtual machine environment, which will increase the memory limit for smart contracts and allow for the hosting of larger language models. Additionally, there are plans to introduce SIMD instructions to improve efficiency and further developments to enhance the network's scalability and performance.
Outlines
📈 Introduction to Blockchain and ICP at Paris Blockchain Week
The speaker, Dominic, is introduced at Paris Blockchain Week and discusses his experience at the event, including seeing the Mona Lisa. He then delves into explaining the Internet Computer Protocol (ICP), positioning it as a third-generation blockchain technology. Dominic outlines the evolution of blockchain technology, from cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin to smart contracts with Ethereum and its competitors. He emphasizes ICP's unique capabilities, such as running everything on-chain, processing HTTP requests, and serving user experiences directly in web browsers, which sets it apart from other blockchains that cannot handle heavy compute or storage tasks like Solana. Dominic also mentions recent demonstrations of AI models running on the blockchain and the potential for hosting large language models on-chain in the future.
🔒 Benefits of Full Stack Decentralization and On-Chain AI
The paragraph highlights the benefits of hosting everything on-chain compared to using legacy solutions like Amazon Web Services. Dominic discusses regulatory compliance, particularly in the context of decentralized finance (DeFi), and how on-chain systems can avoid the need for Know Your Customer (KYC) processes. He also touches on the security advantages of fully on-chain systems, which are less susceptible to hacks due to the lack of centralized points of failure. Dominic further explains cross-chain functionality and how it can decentralize control of Ethereum smart contracts. The paragraph concludes with a discussion on how on-chain systems can lead to full stack decentralization, enhancing security, and the potential for community governance through decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs).
🚀 Internet Computer's AI Capabilities and Future Prospects
Dominic addresses the topic of AI and smart contracts, emphasizing that, to his knowledge, the Internet Computer is the only existing third-generation blockchain running AI smart contracts. He criticizes other blockchain platforms for making false claims about their AI capabilities, stating that they cannot even store simple data like a phone photo. The speaker then discusses the technical limitations of the current Internet Computer system, which uses a 32-bit virtual machine, and the upcoming transition to a 64-bit system that will significantly increase memory capacity and enable the running of large language models. Dominic also talks about the potential benefits of having AI on-chain, including security, resilience, and the ability to create autonomous systems that do not rely on human intermediaries.
💡 The Impact of Cybersecurity and the Cost of Cybercrime
This paragraph focuses on the global impact of cybersecurity and the escalating costs of cybercrime, which are predicted to exceed $10 trillion by 2025. Dominic argues that traditional IT infrastructure is fundamentally insecure and that adding cybersecurity measures is a fallible solution. He advocates for the use of third-generation blockchain, like the Internet Computer, as a solution to eliminate the need for cybersecurity. Dominic also mentions the Utopia project, which aims to bring ICP technology to government and corporate domains by creating a private, sovereign cloud that is secure and resilient against hacks.
🌐 The Future of Decentralization and Removing Intermediaries
Dominic discusses the importance of decentralization and removing intermediaries in the context of Web 3.0, using the analogy of a ticket seller and ripper to explain the need for multiple validators to ensure trust. He criticizes the use of Amazon Web Services for building systems due to the control and potential for censorship it allows. Dominic emphasizes the Internet Computer's role in enabling full stack decentralization, where communities can control services through a decentralized autonomous organization (DAO), providing security and eliminating backdoors. The paragraph concludes with Dominic's invitation to explore the Definitive Foundation's headquarters in Zurich for a more in-depth discussion.
🎮 Excitement for Web 3 Projects and Games
In the final paragraph, Dominic expresses his enthusiasm for various projects being built on the Internet Computer, mentioning Open Chat and Tagger as examples. He also highlights a project involving zero-knowledge proofs and chain fusion technology. Dominic shares his excitement for a game being developed by a team that includes founders who were behind Neopets and significant contributions to Ethereum and DeFi. He hopes that the game, which he has found exciting, will be completed as it has the potential to be a major Web 3.0 game. The paragraph ends with thanks and a closing remark, indicating a desire for a longer interview in the future.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Paris Blockchain Week
💡Internet Computer Protocol (ICP)
💡Smart Contracts
💡Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO)
💡Web 3.0
💡Reverse Gas
💡Scalability
💡AI on Blockchain
💡Cybersecurity
💡Zero Knowledge Proofs
💡Deterministic Decentralization
Highlights
Dominic discusses the Internet Computer Protocol (ICP) as a third-generation blockchain, emphasizing its role in hosting smart contracts and applications directly on the blockchain, which is a significant shift from traditional cloud services.
ICP allows for the creation of decentralized applications like social networks, which can be controlled by a decentralized autonomous organization (DAO), providing transparency and community control.
Dominic explains that ICP's blockchain can process HTTP and serve user experiences directly to web browsers, enabling direct interaction with smart contracts.
The Internet Computer Protocol is designed to be infinitely scalable and extremely efficient, a necessity for the future of blockchain technology.
ICP has demonstrated the capability to run AI models on the blockchain, showcasing its potential for complex computations and smart contracts.
Dominic talks about the importance of on-chain AI for security, resilience, and the removal of intermediaries, which is a core principle of blockchain technology.
The Internet Computer Protocol is aiming to improve efficiency and remove limits, with plans to host large language models on-chain in the near future.
Dominic addresses the regulatory challenges in DeFi, explaining how building on ICP can help with compliance and avoid the need for KYC due to its decentralized nature.
He highlights the security benefits of fully on-chain systems, which can prevent many of the common hacks that occur on centralized infrastructures.
The interview touches on the potential of ICP to support the growing Web 3 ecosystem, including social networks, metaverse games, and DeFi applications.
Dominic emphasizes the cost-saving potential of building on ICP, as it eliminates the need for traditional IT infrastructure and cybersecurity measures.
The conversation includes the impact of ICP on reducing cybercrime, which is predicted to cost the world $10 trillion by 2025.
Dominic mentions the Utopia project, which repurposes ICP technology for government and corporate domains, aiming to create a secure and private sovereign cloud.
The interview discusses the concept of 'full stack decentralization' enabled by ICP, which allows for the removal of intermediaries and increased trust in systems.
Dominic shares his views on the future of AI, predicting that most AI models will run as smart contracts on blockchains like ICP for enhanced security and autonomy.
The interview concludes with Dominic's enthusiasm for various innovative projects being built on the Internet Computer, highlighting the platform's versatility and potential impact across different sectors.
Transcripts
Dominic it's a pleasure to finally meet
you here at uh Paris blockchain week how
did you enjoy the event this far it's
been uh fun it's a amazing event amazing
venue uh last night and got to see the
monaa in the LOF which is pretty cool um
and go was a lot of energy here I saw a
picture on Twitter very nice picture
with the Mona Lisa when I went to the
Mona Lisa it was a lot more crowded than
it was when you were that's true
actually I I realized what a privilege
it was this morning cuz you come in and
there's like this this line C that looks
like about kilometer long yeah it's
crazy that is insane so I want to ask
you for the people that are new to the
blockchain space and who have not heard
about internet computer protocol what is
the role that ICB plays in the
blockchain
world so it's a third generation
blockchain and uh you know the first L
was like blockchains that just host a
cryptocurrency ledger like Bitcoin um
obviously Bitcoin was the first and you
had like competitors like Litecoin
silver Bitcoins gold um some other ones
like feathercoin that disappeared uh
then you get the second lane which is
traditional blockchains uh that host
smart contracts that was pioneered by
ethereum and now you've got all kinds of
competitors like sler and Avalanche and
n and all these layer twos and things
like that and and uh they're probably
more successful at taking a chunk out of
ethereum's lead than some of the
competitor competitors of Bitcoin were
um and then you got the third third
third Lan uh which is blockchain that
really uh plays the role in in a way of
cloud um where you build using smart
contracts where you can build something
like a social network entirely for smart
contracts and the big change is that you
know you can't even store a phone photo
on salana like people talk about how
fast and scalable it is well that really
applies to defi transactions and you
know you can store tokens on salana um
and you can you know put some defi logic
there um you can put some meme coins on
salana uh but you know when you see the
user experience or Media or heavy duty
compute that's not happening on SL it's
happening typically on Amazon web
services uh the change with third
generation blockchain is that everything
runs on chain and you have some changes
like reverse gas but also um you know
third generation blockchain has to be
infinitely scalable extremely efficient
and so on so you know the smallart
contracts will actually process HTTP and
serve user experiences directly into
your web browser so as a user you can
directly interact uh with code on the
blockchain autonomous controlled by a
dow or something like that um and so you
you can build something like a social
network on the blockchain put it under
the control of a dow uh which means it's
autonomous and updated transparently and
put put the user community in control
make the motors um which of course is
kind of the promise of web 3 uh and and
that's what um third generation
blockchain does and even recently uh you
know we've been able to demonstrate a
you know AI models running uh on on the
blockchain and smart contracts I did a
demo a few weeks ago of uh a neural
network doing image classification
running as a smart contract but you know
we're pushing you know we're working
very hard at the definity foundation to
uh improve the efficiency and remove
some limits on the internet computer so
that uh you know hopefully within a few
months we'll see it uh you know hosting
large language models onchain seems to
be the running narrative for this bull
run and since ICP is one of the leaders
if not the leader in onchain what do you
think are the benefits of Hosting
everything on chz as opposed to using
Legacy uh Solutions like Amazon web
services and Google cloud and so on yeah
well look F firstly uh you know
blockchain remains a place uh or or an
industry it's very much run by
narratives and means and uh you know
there's a lot of people for example
talking about the blockchain for AI or
the token for AI um and I think you know
people out there get confused that
doesn't mean they're actually running AI
SM contracts right and and similarly you
know being on chain is is is a new kind
of thing but but as far as we're aware
at least today internet computer smart
contracts are the only ones that for
example uh you know benefit from the
reverse gas models so they can pay for
their own computation that can process
htdp to serve the user experience and
we're not aware yet of any other third
generation blockchains or blockchains
that can really fairly lay claim to
providing that kind of functionality but
yeah look onchain is incredibly
important I'll give you some examples
first of all um uh let's look at defi
there's a regulatory Dimension right so
M which is the you know markets and
crypto assets regulation in Europe means
that that uh if if you uh you know you
you build a system like Unis out of
ethereum spot contracts which are
decentralized but you then go and build
a centralized user experience for
example on Amazon web services then uh
because you built you know a large part
of the system is centralized you'll be
required to do kyc so one way to solve
that is you can build the user
experience on the internet computer you
can put it under the control of a dow
there's a special kind of Dow on the
internet computer called a service
nervous system system so that the user
experience is completely decentralized
actually there's cross-chain
functionality so you can even
decentralize control of your ethereum SM
contracts if you need to be able to
update them that way too uh and then you
basically Go full stack decentralization
you know you've got a decentralized user
experience um running you know under the
control of the Dow uh and if you want
you can if you don't already have
mechanisms on ethereum you can use the
internet computer for the for updating
those smart contracts too uh and now you
you've got end to end decentralization
you know and that's a big Advance um and
it might help you with respect to
regulations like M but there there's
also other reasons too of course if you
look at most of the hacks in the um you
know in the blockchain space they tend
to fall in two camps one is uh the
hackers are exploiting uh things like
re-entrancy bugs and ethereum small
contracts um and just exploring the
logic because of you know evm is quite
an old virtual machine now and it you
know and the design of the system does
lend itself to these kind of attacks so
you going be very careful and you know
order your ethereum code but you know
some some mistakes slip through so
that's one bucket of hacks the other
bigger one though is that the hackers
just go off to centralized
infrastructure you know whether that's
Bridges or whether they take control of
you know the the user experience that's
running on traditional it so for example
at axi Infinity for example a huge web
three game um in reality of course most
of that was running on Amazon web servic
or some other centralized infrastructure
and there was a hot wallet involved and
so it's you know just just the same as
you know hackers will hack into a
centralized exchange to get hold of the
hot wallet they'll hack into AI affility
um or a bridge so the advantage is if if
you go fully on chain um you know smart
contracts a Tampa proof you don't need
to protect them with firewalls and
intrusion detection and anti-malware and
security teams uh so if you look at the
internet computer for for instance it's
hosting uh social
networks and some of the like you know
open chat you know they do chat stuff
like that and as well as being like a
place for communities to form it's all
fully on chain and actually you know
your open chat account is also a crypto
wallet and people send crypto via chat
messages on openchat um so that's been
running for like three years now and
it's got a large community there's a
bunch of crypto inside it's got no no
firewall protection uh no
antimalware Etc right no not even a
security team and far no hex this far
yeah this far it's important to say but
but you know if the purpose of
blockchain is um to provide a platform
that runs on secure mathematics hackers
cannot made 2 plus 2 equal 5 right so
and this far yeah you know all of those
kind of services on the internet
computer that have crypto inside um have
proven hack proof so that's a you know
huge Advantage number one and number two
um if you build your you know social
network social media metaverse game def
whatever it is fully on chain you can
put it under the control of an Internet
Community through a dow and that's what
web3 is all about you know that you can
you know enlist the community of
something like open chat as part of a
virtual team that will you know go out
there and help promote the web3 service
and um create content maybe in return
for token incentives and so on um and
web3 is all about giving ownership to
you know the end user and you know the
the ultimate destination of that is
things like social networks that run uh
under the full transparent control of of
of community Dallas um and and that's
what you can do if you go fully on chain
and that's what's happening on the
internet computer ST I agree and well we
know that onchain is going to be the
future because every other ecosystem out
there every other blockchain claims and
uses the fact that you know you can do
this onchain and most recently we've
seen uh Solana celebrating the whole
ecosystem got together and celebrated
that they managed to send the first
email V VI the salana blockchain and as
you mentioned open chat we have been
doing sending messages and photos and
transactions everything happening on
chain for the past 3 years so have any
other ecosystems reached out to defini
to start using the ICP infrastructure
and actually get onchain well look so so
first of all remember that you know
there was a lot of smok and mirrors in
blockchain right there's a lot of
decentralization theater so I I I
haven't looked into the salana onchain
demo but look what I can tell you is
salana can't store a phone photo right
yeah so how on Earth is it storing
emails which might have PDF attachments
and things like that doesn't make any
sense what they're probably doing is
storing the hash of an email on chain or
something like that i' get I'd imagine
right which is something very different
to running you know a communication
system on chain so um you know you also
he a lot of about blockchains you know
running AI right like I'll go on a limb
here and tell you that it's all nonsense
right there's not a single blockchain in
existence I'm aware of other than the
internet computer that's running AI
smart contracts but you know people do
this kind of like somebody got in a
panel with Jens Nang you know got
touched by Jens Nang from Nvidia and you
know it was like near to the moon it's
AI right but you know near is not
running AI smart contracts salana has
this thing about
AI again you know they can't even store
a phone photo and Shing I mean you need
to be able to store you know billions of
neuron weights if you're going to you
know hold them in memory smart contract
memory if you want to run an AI model as
a smart contract so obviously if you
can't store a phone photo then you can't
do that right it's like some kind of
connected to chat gbt so I think that's
you know CH is challenging for people
out there to to see through all this
noise and this hype um but you know I
can tell people categorically today
there is only one third generation
blockchain in existence and it's the
internet computer um and uh you know
today it's it's it's running um neural
networks it's more contracts in the
future um we're working very hard to
improve the network and remove some of
the limits so people can actually run
large language models uh as smart
contracts it's not possible today
because uh without getting too many
technical details uh internet computer
is a web assembly system right it's a
web assembly virtual machine we're using
a 32-bit virtual machine and um uh that
that means you can only 32 bits means
you can only have 4 gig memory it's like
going back to you know Windows 95 or
something right and uh you know that
limits du to about two billion
parameters large language models need
about six or seven right um so but but
but we're about to go to 64 bit WM which
means we can raise the the the the main
memory limit for smallart contracts to
something like 15 gig and and then and
then and then it'll be possible and
we're also working on the efficiency and
introducing recently uh we made a
decision to propose that Sim
instructions be introduced into the
virtual machine environment which will
really you know improve efficiency 5x
Etc but you know it's it's a very
techical job um and the technology is
necessarily pretty complicated you know
we have hundreds of like you know phds
and Engineers working on this and the
progress would be pretty quick um but at
the moment of course it's not possible I
think to really run a large landel on on
blockchain but hopefully it will we'll
be we'll be so in a few months right so
those are the reasons why on CH on the
TR comp protocol has been such a big
breakthrough but a lot of people have
been wondering why is it so more
beneficial to have AI on chain as
opposed to having it on AWS okay so you
know here's a statement I I'll go on and
Lim again I'll tell you look I I it's
going to be a few years but in the end
the vast majority of of AI models are
running smart contracts and it's a
really simple is it um AI has a
particular demob for security so um
first of all you know if you run an AI
model on traditional it infrastructure
uh that traditional it infrastructure is
in secure and you can use all the
firewalls in the world all the intrusion
detection in the world U all the
antimalware in the world as we can see
it gets hacked all the time often times
you're going to want to connect AI to
all your most sensitive and confidential
information like say for example you run
like an AI for your startup or your
government Department whatever it is um
and you know it's like an AI which will
schedule meetings and you can ask it
like who's running that team is anybody
blocked has anyone got any ideas for PR
um you know this AI probably is like uh
streaming all all your ORS uh you know
chat messages
emails calendar if it's a techic or jir
and GitHub etc etc right so if if the
hacker can you
know you get onto the it infrastructure
running the AI he's going to get all of
the uh most confidential information and
sensitive information in one place
secondly uh we're going to come to
depend on AI right so if you think about
like 20 years ago before satav you know
if you're going to go from you know
somewhere in a big city or out from the
city into the countryside you start off
by looking at a paper map and you would
memorize the route and you know you keep
that root in your head and you make all
the right turns and you get that like
for most people I I used to do that for
years you know um but if you asked me to
do it now I probably couldn't because
I've I've been using sat now for 20
years and I've of course come to depend
on it right I've lost the skill when
people and organizations introduce AI
you know they're going to lose a lot
skills and they're going to come to
depend on the AI and they're going to
use their brains for something else
right that means if you're for example
using the AI is an Nexus of information
in your organization and coordination um
you're going to come to depend on it and
if that AI stops working uh it's going
to be very bad um you you know because
every was depending on it and a bit like
if you took satin AB way dat so it's
very important that AI you know is
highly resilient one of the advantages
of smart contracts is they're
Unstoppable going in like a you know one
error that makes the whole thing crash
it's Unstoppable so um that's another
reason you got security you got uh
unstop you know resilience it's
Unstoppable but also you can make it
autonomous so you know I've been talking
about like imagine you can an internet
computer AI SM
contract that audits the code of
solidity contact contracts on ethereum
so today you got to you got to Ether
scan you can see this L you count
through a smart contract right uh and
let's say you want to interact with a
smart contract thing is most people
don't read solidy so they're not and any
even if you're ay Dev you don't want to
audit someone else's smle trick but you
know if you've got an internet computer
smart contract uh which with a large
language model inside that can um
validate ethereum uh smart contracts and
check there's no you know re-entrancy
bugs back doors that could lead to a rug
pull uh malicious code that could make
you know uh malware that could make the
smart contract interact maliciously with
other smart contracts you know account
with accounts with well um now you know
that AI smart contract can you know
download the rout hash of The Ether
smart contract get the code from GitHub
read the the the um you know solidity
and you know issue a certificate like a
kite Mark that says this SM contract has
been ordered by Ai and it didn't find
any problems and you could put that on
on ether scab and that will give people
at much higher level of assurance that
you know oh look here's theil code I
don't read it or I haven't got time to
read it um but but that's okay the AI
which anyway is going to be probably
better than the best smart contract
auditor um has gone through it and and
made sure it's safe to use
now the reason this should run as a the
a auditor should run as a smart contract
is otherwise you have to trust the human
being that controls it that's autonomy
so you know smart contracts can be
autonomous so in this case the smart
contract um doesn't have a human
controller and we know that if this CER
this ethereum SM contract is certified
that's because the logic of the AI says
that it's safe um not because some
controller of the AI because it's
running on traditional it right has
issued the certification themselves and
that's autonomy so you got these three
Magic Properties small conts are
tamperproof giv you security they're
Unstoppable gives you resilience and
they're autonomous and that removes
intermediaries which of course is the
yeah you know the thing that Satoshi
started with like if you want to trust
something there better not be an
intermediate and uh so if you want to
trust the smart contract auditing there
better not be a human intermediary that
could have done that credit certificate
you better be sure that the AI is
autonomous so you know those are those
are the things you can only get if you
run um the you you run this you know you
run the AI as a smart contract and
that's why I think in the long run you
know uh people are going to need AI this
secure people are going to need AI that
um is resilient and of course within the
web 3 space we're going to need
autonomous AIS without intermas um and
that's why I think in the long run the
majority of small contracts will run as
sorry excuse me the majority of AIS will
rning smart contracts yeah absolutely
and I remember one of the slides in one
of your presentations in 2023 if I'm not
mistaken cyber crime or cyber security
accounted for a huge number something
like $1.8 billion only in that year
alone so hosting stuff on the internet
computer protocol would absolutely cut
this uh huge number Sasha I used to have
my numbers wrong I think it was um last
year this year we spent $1.8 trillion on
um IT personnel okay and actually that's
a separate thing you know if you look at
it Personnel they spend 95% of their CH
their time chasing complexity and we
believe building on third generation
blockchain greatly simplifies R&D and
will make it Personnel much more uh
productive um so whether that's to save
costs or have them you know build better
systems sub to you um but that's one
thing uh people spend a trillion dollars
a year on on software licenses you if
you build on blockchain like third
generation blockchain you don't need
databases for example right the data
sticks to the code on third generation
blockchain um then there's the security
piece right um we spend about $200
billion a year on cyber security um but
that doesn't tell the whole story the
cost of cyber crime next year 2025 is
predicted to pass $10 trillion 10
trillion that's like more it's going to
be more than 35% of the United States
GDP so cyber crime has become an issue
uh you know for the world on a par with
um war and climate change and you know
that $10 trillion would be far better
reinjected into the economy or you know
spent helping the developing world uh
modernize right so uh you know
traditional
it there is no real solution to the
problem of cyber crime and cyber
breaches and so on the fact is you know
you start off with the operating system
was most secure and you try and
configure it to make it secure you put
databases and you know platform software
onto it web servers and everything else
you know you try and configure that so
secure but you know the whole thing and
you know then put on the cloud which
isn't really secure then you should
orchestrate it with kubernetes which
isn't secure but then you're like shoot
this this whole thing I built this whole
rub Goldberg machine that I built with
traditional it it's a completely you
know
insecure mess so what do you do well you
try and protect it with cyber security
you then you try and put a firewall
around it you have intrusion logging to
detection to see if something someone's
got past the firewall you know you have
antimalware to see if you any of the
software updates you're making uh have a
virus inside or something or rans
somewhere inside the trouble is it's
completely fallible if you start with
something that's fundamentally insecure
and you try and protect it with cyber
security um you know inevitably people
going to get past the cyber security and
then it all goes horribly wrong and
we're seeing this all the time so um you
know we believe that building on third
generation blockchain provides a
complete solution because you don't even
need cyber security it's a bit like open
chat you know it's this kind of social
network building third generation
blockchain uh that has crypto inside it
doesn't have any cyber security
protections it doesn't even have a
cybercity team has never been hacked so
imagine that web 3 kind of that
demonstration of of a web 3 architecture
within the government Enterprise space
actually we we got a project was
supporting called Utopia which
repurposes uh ICP technology for the
government and big cor corporate domains
because they can't build on a public
network but you know that that
technology be used to create like a new
kind of private Sovereign Cloud uh the
servus where you build with what's
essentially smart contract technology
and and now you don't have to worry
about getting hacked anymore you don't
have to worry about you also get
resilience you know much better
resilience um because of course you know
smart contracts are unstoppable or orbe
it they won't have so many nodes and
they'll be running it themselves and so
on but you know the technology has Ro
replicability outside of web 3 and
that's what we're going to see happen um
and one of the the biggest drivers of
all this of course will be just the ever
increasing cost of cyber crime and the
ever greater difficulty of using cyber
security to protect systems and which by
the way is about to get worse with ai ai
can support hackers and AI can even
write malware AI can even run do hacks
itself so cyber cyber security
challenges about to become you know in
in the next 5 years much much more
difficult right so this should answer
the question of people that will wonder
why does onchain really matter so right
now they're trying to build on a
foundation that is flawed and it will
eventually go down uh and instead they
could use an evolved solution which is
building on internet computer protocol
uh with so many benefits that you just
mentioned totally and look you know a
lot of people have come in Into the Web
three bace more recently people like me
have been around for a lot longer um and
you know if you like my uh schooling in
thinking with respect to where 300
centralization really came uh from
sato's early work right and and uh you
know the fundamental um level is all
about removing inter medors so uh you
know and and BL do this by having
multiple people verify competation um
one analogy I actually got guy called
Nick Sao which I kind of like is about
the ticket Ripper and the ticket seller
so even if if you go back to the earlier
Cinemas right you would find that as you
come in there's a ticket office where
you buy a ticket and then you go through
the door there's somebody who rips the
ticket right there's a ticket seller and
the ticket Ripper why do you have two
people why is the cinema paying even a
small Cinema why is it paying for extra
stuff well the answer is that if you
only have one person at a ticket ticket
office um you know a group of their
friends can come along and they can
issue them or just you know let them go
through they don't even need a ticket
right but because youve got a ticket
seller and a ticket ripper in order for
that you know for the employee to defro
defro the cinema kind of thing um you
know then have to collude with the
ticket uh the ticket seller so that's
why you have a ticket seller and the
ticket Ripper and of course the you with
a blockchain you you know you do that on
a much bigger scale you have far more
than two people validating things so
once you've done that right um You don't
have to trust the result uh and and then
you can move intermed an intermed is
something like a bank right that can
close your account or steal your money M
but an intermed by the way is is Amazon
web services right and um you know they
even shut down that thing that was
rightwing was it paror or something like
that before the election where Trump
lost um I'm not saying I'm a trump
supported but you know I'm certainly
against social media Services running on
cloud being shut down for political
purposes and also the developers are
intermed right like the developers if
you've got if you're interacting with a
web3 service that's running on abs of
web
services uh you know the developers got
the username and password right and that
means they can log in they can
arbitrarily change your content they can
change the user experience they can
inject malicious code that will steal
your crypto all kinds of bad stuff so
that's why intermediaries have to be
removed and the way to try move in
metrius is to run 100% on blockchain
yeah so you know web 3 web 3 is all
about running on blockchain and really
nobody should be Building Systems on
Amazon web services anymore that's why
we got third generation blockchain which
allows you to to achieve what we call
full stack decentralization where
everything's on the Chain there's no
intermediary um if you put if you've
granted control over you know your
systems your your service to a to a dow
you removed all the black back doors
it's it's completely secure the
communities in control uh that's true
web three for us you mentioned Utopia
and that is going to help big companies
and institutions start developing on the
internet computer protocol can you give
us some names of uh institutions or big
companies that are planning to build if
not already building on the internet
computer well I mean uh so so first of
all internet computer is really a web
three platform I think over time you'll
see more and more companies using it um
but if you look at governments and and
and um corporations generally speaking
they won't build in public network now
in the case of the internet computer
it's not like a normal blockchain it
does provide a a level of privacy for
the contents of smart contracts and the
computations they perform and and and
that's because the protocol controls you
know which nodes that that the smart
contracts replicated on through the
subnet architecture um and there's too
much computation we to download all you
just instead interact with smart
contract having said that though if
you're interacting with a smart contract
with the internet computer the internet
computer Network BL you know the
blockchain behind the scenes is you know
replicating the computation of data over
these node machines and uses a system
called deterministic decentralization so
every node machine uh is is owned and
operated by a different node provider uh
you know typically in different data
centers different geographies and
different jurisdictions Etc right um but
nonetheless it is being you know the the
data competition is being replicated so
if you're a big Corporation you're like
well or a government my data is on the
public network that means that all these
different different companies have got a
copy of it right so you know web 3 it
doesn't matter in the future it will
matter less because the protocol will
provide even stronger you know privacy
protections um but for now you know it's
like it you know public networks are
really for web 3 um or shared systems so
you know there was a system called the
the the um voluntary recycling credits
uh VRC exchange and that was built in
the the the um internet computer and we
we announced this appears this huge
environmental conference uh mainly for
government recently and you know that
that was like you know renberger you
know big big uh business management
consultancy uh BR which is a huge like
12 13,000 person company in in in UAE
that that does waste management stuff uh
Isa like the uh International Sol of
waste Association someone for the
Brazilian government and so on and I
believed after after that demo there was
you know like um
inbound for like 12 13 different
governments want to participate so
that's like a Consortium system though
right so uh you know what you that was
like an exchange uh and it's really
worth looking at the demo or even
getting access to it check it out what's
possible to build uh it runs on the
internet computer buil entirely from uh
small contracts that even serve the user
experience and once those consortiums
once that's all finalized actually it'll
be like the the service nervous system
Dow that currently would control some of
the social you know typically has tens
of thousands of people controlling a
internet service currently right um now
same technology will be used for like a
a Consortium of you know big business
and governments where you might have a
hundred people organizations
participating and holding the governor
tokens um and you know they together
will you know uh control the logic of
the VC exchange which which is really to
to you know you know people you heard
about carbon credits it's does the same
thing for recycling so someone is
recycling Plastics in Brazil for example
uh they can Min some recycling credits
and then some company like Coca-Cola
they you know inside those Coca-Cola
cans there's a plastic sheath and they
want to say that they've recycled it all
so what they do is they buy recycling
credits right um but but you know uh the
beautiful thing is that it's there's no
gatekeeper right this is like an open
exchange there's no owner there's no one
who controls it it's controlled by a dow
and the people who have Governor tokens
are people in the field of you know uh
recycling which are some of the ICB
projects that you think should get more
recognition uh what are the projects
that you are looking at man the trouble
is right I got to be really careful
because you know I'm so busy and in so
many ways often times I'm totally
unaware of amazing projects and so what
happens is I tend to go back to projects
that I know because they were early or
I'm linked to them in some way I mean
that's why I always talk about open chat
is one of the first uh social networks
on on on the internet computer and
really is unfair because there's a lot
of people building stuff I I give you an
example one uh that doesn't even use
it's it's Dow control but they create
their own Dow framework as tager tager
is amazing that's really Innovative and
they're exploring like how you can
completely redefine social media using
web 3 um and some really interesting
stuff going on that um but but again you
know that's another project I've looked
at because they actually had a problem
with their Dow they couldn't update
tagger anymore so they got the network
nervous system which is the main D that
runs into second computer to save it
yeah so again like I'm familiar with
there and I know there's lots and lots
of other projects um there was actually
a project I tweeted that I never even
heard of before which is uh you know
messing you know using the internet
computer to verify zero knowledge proofs
and then you know pushing uh the using
chain Fusion which is an internet
computer technology to push you know a
call to a Smart contract saying yeah
this uh uh you know this uh zero proof
has been validated I mean there's so
much stuff going on um and so I wouldn't
want to call out any individual project
having just done it one I'm excited
about but again it's not fair cuz I know
the guy behind it is dragons and you
know dragons I can tell you is is
definitely a dark horse I don't know if
they'll ever finish it that's the danger
but there's actually a big team working
H and and a large portion of their team
including the founder uh the the
founders and were behind Neopets as just
super smart people like this guy he had
1% of intern advertising from his dor
room went on from that to near Pats and
and then after that other games and then
he got into you know the big early
person in behind the scenes in ethereum
and ethereum defi um and uh yeah I'm
super excited exit I feel like if they
can finish that game uh it'll probably
be the biggest game on web 3 it'll be
huge so I I just hope they finish it
because I've looked at it and what I've
seen is super exciting um what else but
he know lot people lots of people trying
to do he like was it copia again it's a
project that's you know going to take a
long time but they built like a kind of
Minecraft like World which loads
straight into the browser and it's
incredible it'll load into the browser
on a desktop in like a few seconds so
that's what I'd like to see yeah
absolutely thank you very much for your
time it's been a pleasure to talk talk
to you and I wanted to do a longer
interview one day at the definity
headquarter in Zurich if you're
available and uh it's been a pleasure
talking to you and it's been a blast to
you thank you very much thank you byebye
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