Breakpoint 2024: Fireside: Solana 2.0 (Anatoly Yakovenko, Mert Mumtaz)

Summary

This video features a dynamic conversation with a prominent figure in the blockchain industry, who reflects on the progress of Solana, entrepreneurship, and innovation. The speaker shares insights into the challenges of building cutting-edge technology like blockchain phones, dealing with criticisms, and the drive behind staying engaged with the ecosystem. Highlights include discussions on mobile device evolution, blockchain scalability, and the importance of constant development in crypto. The speaker also emphasizes the value of experimentation, persistence, and building 'weird stuff' in tech to foster innovation.

Takeaways

• 🎤 The speaker humorously starts the talk by joking about the potential for shaving his head, mentioning that having three kids has caused him to lose more hair.
• 🚀 The speaker is deeply involved in the development of Solana, a blockchain platform, and despite his success, he remains highly engaged and hands-on with the project.
• 💡 Founders often have an insatiable drive to keep building and improving, which the speaker identifies as both a curse and a motivating factor.
• 📱 Solana Mobile launched a new, more affordable phone model priced at $500, with improved features and integration aimed at competing with major tech companies like Apple and Google.
• 🎮 The speaker discusses the paradox of advanced technology being used for seemingly trivial purposes, such as games, but notes that this is what often funds and pushes technological advancements.
• 🖥️ The vision for Solana includes creating a global, atomic state machine that operates at the speed of light, which the speaker believes could disrupt traditional financial systems by offering better prices and efficiency.
• 🛡️ The speaker expresses concern about the potential for bugs in blockchain systems, highlighting the importance of multiple client implementations to reduce the risk of catastrophic failures.
• 👨‍💻 The speaker enjoys his role as a principal engineer and envisions continuing to contribute to Solana's technical advancements for many years.
• 🛠️ The speaker encourages developers in the Solana ecosystem to experiment and build innovative, even 'weird,' projects, emphasizing the importance of trying new things and learning from the process.
• ☕ The speaker's famous routine includes two cappuccinos and a Kölsch beer, reflecting a personal ritual that helps fuel his productivity.

Q & A

What drives the speaker to continue working hard despite already achieving significant success?

The speaker feels driven by an inner 'demon' that pushes him to always find and fix problems. He mentions it's easier to focus on work than to find peace in the present moment, and that it's rewarding to see founders and builders pushing the network forward.

What was the speaker’s role at Qualcomm, and how did it shape his perspective on mobile technology?

The speaker was one of the early kernel engineers at Qualcomm, working on a mobile platform called Brew before Android and iPhone. His experience in booting up Android and trying to compete with the iPhone shaped his belief that mobile is the most important device, and that a crypto version of it is necessary to disrupt current closed ecosystems like those of Apple and Google.

Why does the speaker believe that Solana's first phone, despite being labeled as 'worst phone of the year,' was still a success?

The phone sold out, which the speaker sees as a positive signal for a startup. He believes the key is to focus on one important detail and execute it well. In this case, the idea that developers can influence users to switch platforms using digital assets was successful, even if the overall phone had flaws.

What improvements have been made in the new Solana phone compared to the previous version?

The new Solana phone is cheaper at $500 compared to the previous $1,000 device, has better specs, a lighter design, and improved software integration with Solflare to make the signing experience smoother. There are also more apps, rewards, and incentives for users to stay on the device.

Why does the speaker believe weird use cases can push blockchain technology forward?

Weird use cases, such as meme coins or gaming, can generate significant revenue, which then funds the development of advanced infrastructure like Fire Dancer. The speaker compares it to how mobile games generate huge profits for Apple, enabling investment in critical infrastructure, even though the applications may seem trivial.

What is the speaker’s vision for a global state machine, and why does he believe it is important?

The speaker envisions a single, fast, atomic, permissionless, global state machine that operates at the speed of light. He believes this would reduce inefficiencies, such as settlement risk and information asymmetry, in global finance, resulting in better pricing for users and a more efficient economy.

What is the speaker's biggest concern regarding the development of blockchain systems?

The speaker's biggest concern is the potential for bugs in the system, particularly at the Layer 1 infrastructure level. These bugs could lead to catastrophic failures, which is why the Fire Dancer team focuses on creating a second implementation to reduce the likelihood of bugs affecting both versions of the protocol.

What does the speaker envision his role will be in 5-10 years?

The speaker enjoys the role of a principal engineer and envisions continuing in that capacity, working on technical challenges, collaborating with talented teams, and contributing to design work. He hopes to remain involved in improving Solana and pushing it forward.

What advice does the speaker offer to founders in the Solana ecosystem?

The speaker encourages founders to build 'weird stuff' and emphasizes the importance of continually trying new things, even if they fail. He advises founders to focus on learning and iterating through the process of finding product-market fit.

Why does the speaker frequently engage on social media, especially Twitter?

The speaker grew up during the early days of the internet and became accustomed to being constantly connected. He admits that it's part of his nature to always be engaging with others and solving problems, and social media gives him an outlet for that.

Outlines

00:00

🎤 Kicking Off with Humor and Serious Talk

The speaker begins with a humorous and lighthearted introduction, joking about shaving their head due to hair loss from parenting. The conversation then shifts to a more serious topic: their work on building one of the best blockchains. Despite their success, they remain active and engaged in daily tasks, highlighting a deep-rooted drive to keep pushing forward, likening it to a 'curse' that makes them always seek improvement and action.

05:02

📱 A New Phone and Disruption of Tech Giants

The discussion moves to the speaker's involvement in the development of a crypto-friendly mobile device. They talk about the previous model receiving poor reviews but still selling out, which they see as a positive indicator for startups. They also emphasize the opportunity to disrupt Apple and Google’s control over the mobile ecosystem, particularly their high fees, with the new phone's improved features and lower cost.

10:03

🎮 Tech for Games and Global Disruption

The speaker reflects on the oddity that advanced technology is often driven by entertainment, like mobile games, rather than more serious applications. However, they argue that this playful use of technology pays for the infrastructure that can later be used for more significant purposes, such as creating a global, fee-less payment system. They see the current tech ecosystem as a sign of progress and a foundation for future disruption in global commerce.

15:04

💻 The Power and Potential of Global State Machines

The conversation dives deeper into the idea of a global state machine, explaining how delays and inefficiencies in current systems create opportunities for value extraction and higher costs. The speaker envisions a world where finance runs on a permissionless, global state machine moving at the speed of light, leading to better prices and reduced friction. They liken this disruptive potential to Linux’s impact on the tech world in the 90s.

20:05

🛡️ Building Secure Systems and Avoiding Catastrophic Bugs

The speaker discusses their biggest fear in the blockchain space: the risk of catastrophic bugs, whether in smart contracts or at the foundational layer. They express confidence in the Fire Dancer team, which is working to build a more robust and secure system. The ultimate goal is to achieve a diversified network where different implementations reduce the likelihood of shared bugs, moving the system beyond its beta stage.

🚀 Encouragement for Founders: Build Weird Stuff

The speaker offers encouragement to the next generation of founders, urging them to build 'weird stuff.' They share personal anecdotes about their own journey into technology and highlight the importance of experimentation and persistence. The advice is to keep trying, even if initial efforts fail, because iteration is key to finding product-market fit and creating something valuable.

☕ Two Coffees, a Beer, and Startup Wisdom

In a lighthearted conclusion, the speaker shares a fun fact about their famous combination of two cappuccinos and a beer, revealing that the beer was a Kölsch. This anecdote ties back to their earlier thoughts on innovation, suggesting that breakthroughs can happen in casual moments as well. The session ends with applause and admiration for the speaker’s contributions to the tech space.

Keywords

💡Solana

Solana is a high-performance blockchain known for its speed and scalability. In the video, it's mentioned as one of the best blockchains, with the founder being deeply involved in its development. The blockchain is positioned as a fast, decentralized network aiming to create a 'global state machine.'

💡Entrepreneurial drive

This refers to the internal motivation that pushes founders and entrepreneurs to keep working on their projects, even after achieving significant success. In the video, the speaker mentions how they are driven by a 'demon' that keeps them moving forward, constantly looking for new challenges and solutions.

💡Blockchain as a global state machine

A concept where blockchain technology is envisioned as a global, synchronized system that operates at the speed of light. The speaker sees this as a revolutionary idea that can improve various aspects of commerce and technology by providing real-time, frictionless transactions.

💡Fire Dancer

Fire Dancer is a Solana-related project aiming to improve the blockchain’s infrastructure by creating a second client, which helps mitigate risks by having two independent implementations. This project showcases Solana's effort to make its network more robust and secure.

💡Saga phone

Saga is a mobile phone developed by Solana Mobile. In the video, it is discussed as a crypto-focused device, aiming to disrupt the closed ecosystems controlled by tech giants like Apple and Google. Despite receiving criticism for its first version, the company is pushing forward with a more refined model.

💡Disrupting big companies

The video talks about Solana’s efforts to disrupt established tech companies like Apple and Google, particularly in the mobile space. This disruption is primarily focused on bypassing their restrictive ecosystems and high fees, which are seen as barriers to innovation.

💡Permissionless and atomic

These terms relate to the blockchain’s ability to allow anyone to participate (permissionless) and the idea of transactions being instantaneous and final (atomic). These qualities are highlighted as essential for the 'global state machine' vision the speaker has for Solana.

💡Principal engineer track

This refers to a career path in engineering where the individual focuses on deep technical work and innovation, rather than moving into management roles. The speaker mentions their preference for staying on this track, as they enjoy solving technical challenges and collaborating with smart engineers.

💡Mobile platform control

The video discusses how tech giants like Apple and Google control the mobile ecosystem by deciding which apps are allowed and charging high fees (20-30%). Solana’s efforts with their Saga phone aim to challenge this control by offering an open, crypto-friendly alternative.

💡Smart contract hacks

These are security vulnerabilities that can occur in the code of blockchain-based smart contracts. The speaker expresses concern about the potential for catastrophic bugs in the L1 (layer one) infrastructure, emphasizing the importance of projects like Fire Dancer in preventing such issues.

Highlights

The founder acknowledges the inevitability of losing hair with age, humorously suggesting he may shave his head by the next big event.

The founder discusses how being a 'reply guy' on Twitter, engaging with obscure accounts and trolls, is driven by an entrepreneurial curse of never being satisfied and always wanting to fix problems.

The mobile platform they are building aims to disrupt the monopolistic nature of Apple and Google, which charge developers 20% to 30% fees for apps.

Despite the first mobile device receiving the 'Worst Phone of the Year' award, the team learned from the experience and used it to create a better, cheaper device with improved specifications and integration with crypto.

The founder envisions a future where a crypto-based mobile phone can compete with Apple and Google if they reach a user base of 200,000 to 1 million units.

The founder shares that the biggest misconception about Solana is people assuming it’s only for certain 'weird' use cases, but he emphasizes that disruptive technologies often thrive in unexpected ways.

Solana’s ultimate vision is creating a global, permissionless state machine that moves at the speed of light, which could lower prices for consumers by removing inefficiencies in finance and other systems.

The founder compares the potential impact of blockchain technology to the disruptive rise of Linux, which overtook proprietary systems through the collective efforts of open-source developers.

The scariest aspect of working in blockchain, according to the founder, is the potential for bugs in both smart contracts and Layer 1 infrastructure, which could lead to catastrophic failures.

The founder expresses confidence that once the Fire Dancer project is fully implemented, the system will be much more secure, as it will reduce the likelihood of the same bug occurring across different software implementations.

Solana will no longer be considered in 'beta' once the Fire Dancer implementation reaches 33% or more of the network’s nodes.

In five years, the founder hopes to still be focused on engineering design, collaborating with other experts to create innovative solutions and contribute to Solana’s technical development.

Encouraging innovation, the founder advises Solana ecosystem developers to 'go build weird stuff,' emphasizing that even failure is part of the learning process toward success.

The founder reflects on how the digital world now enables global innovation, and that a founder today doesn’t need Silicon Valley or Wall Street to build successful products.

In a lighthearted moment, the founder reveals his favorite beer is a Kölsch, noting how he switched to cleaner, crisper beers after tiring of the IPA trend in San Diego.

Transcripts

[Music]

all right hello

manlets um so today we have an exciting

uh talk for you we're going to talk

about something we've never talked about

before uh

salana um and I have some spicy

questions for toie but um I thought we'd

maybe start a little serious first and

uh and on a lighter note um so my first

question toally is going to be when are

you shaving your

head thought about it like I have three

kids now and with every kid I have less

and less hair on my head so it's

inevitable maybe maybe next breakpoint

I'll I'll have a nice shiny head all

right you heard here first it's not any

out there you know what I'm talking

about um okay well so one thing that um

I think impresses everybody about you is

you've you've built you've helped build

one of the best blockchains in existence

the best blockchain existence um and um

you're still kind of in the trenches

every single day you've basically

already kind of made it but you're still

here kind of everyday reply guying like

the most obscure accounts on Twitter and

dinosaurs and stuff like that uh what's

what's driving you still why are you

still

here that's a good good question

um I don't know I think like a lot of

Founders or entrepreneurs are you know

like you kind of have that like demon in

you to go do stuff that dog you can't

that dog you can't sit still um it's

it's a curse right cuz you're like you

cannot be happy in the moment uh and

that's basic that's probably what I

struggle with the most it's it's easy to

work easy to look at and like find

problem s and then go put your energy in

fixing them and it's much harder to you

know have that presence and be happy

that that's I think you know the hard

part of like the entrepreneurial human

existence um but it's rewarding like it

it's it's awesome to see the founders

the builders everyone that's pushing the

network forward and and like I don't

know what else they'd be doing it's like

I I want to have this idea of this like

science fiction World computer where

State and information is synchronized at

the speed of light come to fruition and

I want to accelerate that as fast as I

can yeah so I want to actually talk

about that a bit later but you're

actually not standing still or sitting

still you're actually building

award-winning phones um uh we salana

mobile last year did win the best phone

of the or worst phone of the year uh

award by Mar's round brownly I think and

uh you were like nope you know what

we're just going to build another one

and uh I think you made an announcement

uh two days ago maybe um with the new

secr phone can you talk a bit about why

this one's different what what you're

excited about with the new

phone yeah um so as folks know I spent

most of my career qual camo is one of

the early kernel engineers and this

mobile platform called Brew this is the

first flip phones with just trying to

get developers to go build something

anything on mobile platforms so I was

there before before we had Android

before we had browsing and then when the

iPhone came out it was this big

revolutionary moment I was one of the

early folks trying to boot up Android

and and get that going to um to get like

a a reasonable competitor out to the

iPhone um mobile is is one of those

things that is I think the epitome of

that personal computer of the80s that

dream of having a a the tricorder and

Star Trek it is the most important

device um and I think somebody needs to

push a crypto version of it

because unfortunately the even though we

got Linux on the Linux one right the

there's more Android devices out there

than than Windows devices and probably

iPhone devices too um it is a very

closed ecosystem Google kind of sets the

standards and sensors applications and

decides what is okay and what is not

they also charge a massive fee 20% on

Google and 30% on Apple and it's when

you people talk about crypto disrupting

stuff and they think oh we're going to

disrupt Visa Visa's revenue of their on

top of their gross payment volume is

like 10 basis points that is a sliver of

a sliver and like Apple and Google is

30% that's 3,000 basis points um that is

such a massive difference and uh such a

huge opportunity to disrupt that it

feels like somebody should be doing it

and I haven't to have the skill set and

it felt like we could go and try and

make it work um and we shipped a

device and we got Maris to review it we

got to notice noticed huh you got you

got him to review the second one just

the first one I mean that was a surprise

to me that he even took a look at it

okay and even though he gave us a bust

of the Year award

[Laughter]

so it was a bad device right like you

can think of it oh man The Saga was not

the best phone out there um it's still

sold out which if you're a startup

founder that is actually a very very

positive signal when you build a product

as a startup founder you have to take

shortcuts you have to build it as fast

as you can to p a thesis and you're kind

of painting an impressionist painting

and you only focus on one really really

important detail and everything else is

sloppy right and like when it works

nobody noticed the sloppiness even if

somebody can paint out oh man those like

hands are not really hands right like

nobody cares about those details what

they care about is the one thing you got

right and I think the thesis that

developers can give out content and get

people to switch devices or switch

platforms we might have gotten right so

there is a like

the the thing with Bonk that happened

that was weird and and interesting is

that people sold a bonk that they had

and bought the phone to get the bankk

back so they they weren't like

arbitraging the price of the phone they

just saw an opportunity to take this

digital assets that nfts and all this

other stuff that are part of these

ecosystems it's really no different than

like fortnite skins or anything else

that people attribute value to in the

digital world they just happen to be

tradable they were able to go do this

and and use digital content to go switch

platforms that part worked and it could

work at 200,000 units we're at like

140,000 so I'm pretty sure we'll get

there it could work at a million units

and at that point I think that is a

large enough platform with a large

enough user base that it is actually

competitive for with Apple and Google um

so

like it it is like

a very very hard problem to disrupt

these big companies so how are you going

to do it what are the give me a very

quick bullet uh rapid fire of the new

features that you think are worthwhile

for everybody who who who maybe want to

look at the phone uh it's cheaper that's

the most important part so it's a $500

device instead of a $1,000 device it's

crazy to launch a $1,000 device that

that's just but with impressive yeah

with 20,000 units you it's impossible to

build uh a hardare at that like unit

cost to actually get it over the hump so

that was part of the tradeoffs it's much

cheaper has really good specs awesome

screen it's lighter the software we have

more time to iterate so the actual

integration with soul flare who's doing

like really really really like design

work to make sure that that experience

of signing is like Apple pay so a lot of

improvements there and hopefully a lot

more apps a lot more things for people

to do and like a lot more rewards and

everything else to incentivize users to

actually stay in a device and use it

cool well uh congrats on the launch

let's uh let's see if that's enough to

overcome the disgust people get from

seeing uh green messages on their phones

uh green bubbles or something I don't I

don't have an iPhone um okay let's

switch gears um uh I I tweeted today

about what I should ask you and the you

know I got a lot of troll answers but

probably the most troll one was like ask

ask him what he thinks about his blog

blockchain being used for some weird

stuff I'm paraphrasing weird here it was

it was actually quite specific um what

do you what do you kind of think about

what's being done on maybe blockchains

in general but also

salana yeah there's this weird dynamic

with the internet and a lot of

technologies that you have these weird

use cases that actually push the

technology forward um and even today you

look at iOS some of the coolest

applications that you think what makes

Apple in Mobile Magic is that I can push

a button and a car will appear magically

in front of me anywhere in the world

when when I push this button for LT or

Uber or whatever um but Apple makes

almost zero dollars in revenue from that

they actually make a ton of revenue from

games fart apps like Clash of Clans like

people you know spending money to go

kill older friends and their servers

that activity you don't think of it as

like why do we need the best designers

in the world at A3 trillion company and

at tsmc with 2 nanometer technology to

go build a game where you're like

playing Tower of defense or whatever it

is that you're doing um but that's what

people spend their time on um so you

kind of get these weird effects in Tech

where some of the stuff you build and

some of the stuff that generates the

most Revenue ends up being effectively

time filler for a lot of people but that

pays for the really really cool

infrastructure like you look at the fire

dancer uh demos a million TPS and a

private like globally distributed fiber

optic network with fpga switches that

are like the best technology like you

can even dream of in networking is used

for meme

coins is that okay yes it is okay it's

okay for that stuff to pay for the tech

so then you could have a global payment

system

that is no fees that is frictional that

is global and truly borderless and like

makes the rest of Commerce move much

much faster and cheaper um

so it to me it's a sign that like I

think we are living in a really really

blessed timeline where people can spend

their money and time on playing games

while we can build all this technology

to improve Commerce and make sure we

live in a in a world of abundance m

uh for everybody who didn't I'm guessing

everybody watched Kevin Bower's talk but

totally just mentioned something that I

think probably most people didn't

understand because Kevin Bowers is super

intimidating but uh the fire dancer team

uh and correct me if I'm wrong did 1

million TPS on a network of 100 nodes

correct which is pretty insane right um

and so what globally distributed so

these are nodes all over the world yeah

all over the world so with like Network

Jitter and all this and so maybe that

brings me to the next question which is

you always talked about you know

blockchain or NASDAQ at blockchain no

blockchain at NASDAQ speeds see it's

very confusing get rid of it um and uh

the global State machine and it's what

drives you and stuff and one of my

critiques to that has been like why do

you think people care that it's a global

State machine like is that actually the

thing that people have a use for or do

you just think it's cool and you want to

like you know build it so like what does

that actually mean and why do you think

it's important the kind of time as money

right is is the most apparent in trading

and finance and execution so when an

order is delayed when uh the cue to get

the orders has like attack vectors and

MAV extraction and all all these things

these are all like sand in the gears of

finance and that means that people have

to pricer things higher than they should

be because of all these

little like things that extract value or

or collect rents from a information

asymmetry so that causes prices to be

worse for

people and that exists with any kind of

system that introduces delays or

settlement risk or anything else so if

you want to think about how do we

disrupt like what is the the final stage

of all of Finance in my view it is a

single giant Global State machine that

is moving as fast as speed light does

physics allow that is atomic and

permissionless and Global and there's

the the cool thing is that this can be

built on Hardware that is available to

anyone in the world with open source

software by volunteers effectively kind

of running these boxes and stuff um and

that's a very very disruptive idea in my

mind it is as disruptive of as Linux was

in the 90s where you had these

proprietary commercial operating systems

that were very expensive to build that

took you know 100,000 engineers at

Microsoft and these hobbyists were like

you know what we can do better by just

sharing code freely amongst each other

on the weekends um and they won and I

think the reason that crypto will win is

because it can build a better product it

can be a very very fast GI Atomic State

machine that allows anyone to

participate at the speed of light and

that's going to be result in better

pricing for people better prices are

going to win customers that that's what

it comes down to

um what's the biggest misconception

about

salana um I don't know I mean I've been

replying to all of these for so long why

do you do that why why do you go on

Twitter I never go on Twitter it

sucks I again like when I moved as a kid

from the USSR

literally any anyone remembers what that

was to United States as the internet

like consumer internet was just starting

to get going it was just such a bizarre

change and I was plugged in on the

internet in like IC chat rooms and icq

and stuff and I just kind of got used to

this idea of being permanently connected

um so it's part of that demon right that

like you

can't you can't stop right you're always

trying to f something always trying to

talk to people um so I don't know yeah

so you're saying basically like it's a

curse these new Founders have merely

adopted the troll but you you were born

in it I was born in it yeah yeah um cool

well I mean let's let's uh shift gears

again um what keeps you up at

night the scariest thing in these

systems is that they're built by people

and people write bugs and sometimes you

know those bugs can be catastrophic

so that's been like the most frightening

thing about working in the space is that

you know smart contract hacks but these

could happen at the L1 infra itself and

that's the scariest thing and this is

why fire dancer has been such a big

Focus uh in the ecosystem it's just

having a second implementation of the

same protocol regardless of the TPS and

all this stuff it's awesome that we were

able to give him two goals one is build

a rebuild it but also show us how we

suck at software and make it faster um

they are able to accomplish both of

those but the most important part there

is in the performance it's literally

that it's built by different people so

the probability of the same bug

occurring in both implementations uh is

very very unlikely and the third client

is much much easier when you have two so

that's that's the scariest part that's

what keeps me up and light at night but

we're getting very close to that being

kind of done and an issue behind us and

as soon as fire dancer is on Mana to a

level where more than 33% of the network

is either running fire dancer or both

clients um in my view that's not beta

anymore I will take the beta tag off the

Explorer that runs La that Labs runs

that name is so

[Applause]

troll what do you as as fire dancer

continues work on this and maybe third

and fourth validators spin up or clients

been up and more and more people build

things what do you envision your role

evolving into 5 years into the future

six years into the future what do you

want to be

doing um I love the principal engineer

truck I see it's great like I love

talking to the super smart folks at Anza

at fire dancer with like a proposal like

a sync execution and having forcing them

to go look at it I have the

the I'm privileged that they will listen

to me they will hear me out and they

won't listen to me and do exactly what I

said they will fight back and we end up

with a better result better design so I

mean if I could be doing that 10 20

years from now I'm blessed like uh it

means like I get very lucky and salana

is keeps improving and there's more

design work and I get to do the stuff

that brought me into Engineering in the

first place cool yeah shout out to Trent

uh for taking away totally these GitHub

privileges um what one thing I also want

to ask is um you're you're super into

startups in kind of the founder

mentality or having the demon or you

know dog uh in you um a lot of people

look up to you obviously uh we were just

outside everybody you know wants to take

a picture with you and whatnot what what

what would you like to see more from the

salon ecosystem what are some words of

encouragement uh that that you'd offer

them um go build weird stuff like I

think um like as as soon as I like

landed in the US right as a kid parents

got me a computer was a penum 75 I was

trying to figure out Linux and really

got into computers and like was a nerd

and loved software and this the movie

hackers just still like burn into my

brain and the idea and the dream of

Silicon Valley where you can't start

with with an idea and go build it in

your garage that's was really really

exciting and I think that idea is now

global and crypto and the finance that

crypto creates that's Global and

borderless has really demonstrated that

you don't need Silicon Valley you don't

even need Wall Street everything can

happen on the internet in our own little

kind of e like our own world and it's

awesome and you just need Founders that

are like working on weird stuff on the

weekend and and some of it will pop that

some of it will actually take off and

become really valuable and you know

improve people's lives so just go build

stuff like the worst thing you can do is

nothing like uh there a lot of advice

and a lot of startup advice in Paul

Grahams notes and silicon valy books and

a startup or the founder needs to like

is like a shark they need to be swimming

they need to be trying things even if

you build the wrong thing it's a

learning process and and the iteration

of trying to get product Market fit and

get users and understanding them um it's

all part of the the learning process so

just go build stuff don't worry about it

don't worry about failure just like go

go do it cool uh final question I'm not

sure if you've ever been asked this you

are famous for having two coffees and a

beer what was the beer it was a kch uh a

kch I don't remember the Brand It was a

a I was in San Diego in San Diego for

about a decade and it was like ipas

everywhere and after you just get sick

of ipas at some point I don't know and

like I I switch to the cleanest crispest

beer you can get at that time was a k

yeah so um uh if you guys want to come

up with any new breakthroughs two two

cappuccinos and a k and cappuccino

specifically yeah okay cool well that's

all the time got uh please give a huge

round of applause to the legend anoli