Modernism and Postmodernism in music
Summary
TLDRThis video discusses the concepts of modernism and postmodernism in music composition. Modernism, which emerged in the early 20th century, seeks to break from traditional canons and advance art with new techniques, as seen in the works of composers like Schoenberg. Postmodernism, in contrast, challenges modernism's idea of progress, questioning the very nature and role of art. Through examples such as John Cage's 4'33", postmodernism engages the audience in philosophical inquiries about art’s boundaries and purpose. Both movements address the evolving role of art in modern, industrialized society.
Takeaways
- 🎶 Modernism and postmodernism are broad tendencies in artistic creation, not specific styles, and they help explain motivations behind works of art.
- 🖼️ Both movements explore the role of art in society, questioning whether it's entertainment, knowledge, communication, spiritual, or all of the above.
- 📅 Modernism emerged in the early 20th century and is characterized by a break from traditional artistic canons, seeking to advance art toward a goal.
- 🎹 Adorno is a key figure in modernism, believing in artistic progress, with the 12-tone technique as a modernist move away from tonality.
- 🧱 Modernism is not just about rejecting tradition but also about proposing a new system or way forward, as seen in composers like Schoenberg, Boulez, and Stockhausen.
- ❓ Postmodernism challenges the modernist idea of progress and questions the importance of technique, asking deeper questions about the nature of art.
- 🎤 John Cage's work, like his famous piece '4'33', embodies postmodernism by breaking the barrier between the audience and the art, challenging what music and art are.
- 🤔 Modernism offers an answer to what music should achieve, advocating for artistic progress, while postmodernism offers more philosophical questions about art’s role.
- 📜 Walter Benjamin's essay on mechanical reproduction highlights how industrialization has changed art, diminishing its uniqueness or 'aura' through mass reproduction.
- 🔄 Modernists see progress through breaking from tradition, while postmodernists believe in reinventing and questioning the role of art in a post-industrial society.
Q & A
What are modernism and postmodernism in the context of music composition?
-Modernism and postmodernism are broad tendencies in artistic creation. They aren't specific styles but are used to understand the motivations behind a work and certain stylistic features in art and music.
What is the main difference between modernism and postmodernism?
-Modernism focuses on breaking from traditional artistic conventions and advancing toward a goal or progress, while postmodernism challenges the modernist idea of progress and questions the role and purpose of art itself.
How does modernism approach the evolution of music?
-Modernism seeks to break from traditional forms, advancing music by creating new systems to replace older ones. It's not just about rejecting tradition but proposing a new direction that aligns with modern times.
What role does technique play in modernism?
-Technique is central to modernism, where advancing technique and the art form itself justifies the creation of new works. The modernist composer believes that artistic progress can be achieved through technical innovations.
How does postmodernism differ in its view of artistic progress?
-Postmodernism rejects the idea of clear artistic progress. Instead of following a linear path forward, it questions the role of art and music in society, often presenting open-ended questions about the purpose of creation.
What is an example of postmodernist music, and how does it challenge traditional ideas?
-John Cage’s piece '4'33'' is a postmodernist example. In this piece, the performer does not play any notes, involving the audience in questioning the boundaries of music, thus breaking down traditional expectations.
What philosophical ideas influence postmodernism in music?
-Postmodernism in music is influenced by philosophical ideas that question the nature of art and its purpose. It often explores themes such as the role of art in society and challenges preconceived notions about what art should achieve.
Who are some key figures associated with modernism in music?
-Key figures associated with modernism in music include composers like Arnold Schoenberg, Pierre Boulez, Karlheinz Stockhausen, and Iannis Xenakis. These composers sought to innovate music by introducing new systems such as Schoenberg's 12-tone technique.
What is the significance of Walter Benjamin's essay in relation to modern and postmodern art?
-Walter Benjamin’s essay 'The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction' explores how industrialization and mass reproduction of art diminish its 'aura'—a quality that made art unique. This idea influences both modernism’s goal of artistic progress and postmodernism’s questioning of art’s role.
How does modernism view the future audience in relation to their work?
-Modernists believe that their work may not be fully understood by current audiences, but it is in dialogue with future generations. They see their innovations as paving the way for a deeper understanding of music and art over time.
Outlines
🎵 Introduction to Modernism and Postmodernism in Music
The video introduces the broad tendencies of modernism and postmodernism in music composition, explaining how these movements offer a framework to understand artistic motivations and stylistic features. Neither modernism nor postmodernism are specific styles but are useful in answering deeper questions about the role of art in society, such as whether art is for entertainment, knowledge, communication, or spiritual exploration.
🎨 Understanding Modernism in Music
Modernism in music is traced to the early 20th century, characterized by a break from traditional canons and a pursuit of artistic progress. The video references Adorno, a key modernist figure, and discusses how modernism aims to reject tradition while also presenting new systems of artistic creation, like Schoenberg's 12-tone technique. This era was driven by a belief in progress and innovation, with composers like Boulez, Stockhausen, and Xenakis continuing this approach by seeking new systems to replace outdated ones.
🔄 Postmodernism: Challenging Modernist Ideals
Postmodernism is framed as a reaction to modernism's emphasis on progress and technique. Composers like John Cage challenge the very definition of music, as seen in his famous 4'33", where silence itself becomes the piece. This breaks the boundary between the audience and the work, questioning the limits of the medium. Postmodernism takes a more philosophical approach, rejecting clear paths or answers and focusing instead on questioning the purpose and definition of art itself.
💡 Comparing Modernist and Postmodernist Philosophies
The video contrasts modernist and postmodernist philosophies. Modernism seeks to move art forward by introducing new techniques, with the belief that the audience may not yet understand the music but will appreciate it in the future. In contrast, postmodernism dismisses the idea of a clear artistic trajectory. Instead, it focuses on continually questioning art's role, reflecting changes in society's relationship with art in a post-industrial world.
🏙 Art and Industrialization: Insights from Walter Benjamin
The influence of industrialization on art is discussed through the lens of Walter Benjamin, a critical theorist from the Frankfurt School. His essay, 'The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction,' explains how the mass production of art has stripped it of its 'aura,' or unique presence. Modernists view this as a challenge to continue progressing art, while postmodernists see it as a call to reinvent and redefine art itself in light of societal changes.
🎭 The Diverging Responses to Artistic Change
The video concludes by highlighting the different responses of modernists and postmodernists to the changing nature of art. Modernists argue that artistic progress is still achievable by abandoning irrelevant traditions, while postmodernists see the need to reinvent art entirely, questioning its role in contemporary society. The video ends with a note on the ongoing debate about art's purpose and its evolution.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Modernism
💡Postmodernism
💡12-tone technique
💡Adorno
💡John Cage
💡Artistic progress
💡Mechanical reproduction
💡Aura
💡Breaking the third wall
💡Tonality
Highlights
Introduction to modernism and postmodernism in music composition.
Modernism and postmodernism are not specific artistic styles but are general approaches to understanding motivations behind artistic creation.
These ideas help answer important questions about the role of art in modern society—whether it is for entertainment, knowledge expansion, communication, or spirituality.
Modernism is often traced to the early 20th century, emphasizing breaking from tradition and advancing toward a new musical goal.
Adorno represents the modernist idea, believing in artistic progress and advocating the 12-tone technique as a way forward.
Schoenberg, a starting point for modernism, is followed by composers like Boulez, Stockhausen, and Xenakis, who continue the idea of creating new systems to replace older ones.
Postmodernism challenges the modernist idea of progress and the importance of technique in music composition.
John Cage's '4'33'—a piece where the performer does not play a single note—questions the very nature of music and involves the audience in the performance.
Postmodernism is more of a philosophical mindset, questioning what music and art are supposed to convey.
Modernism offers an answer by advocating progress in art, believing that future generations will eventually understand new musical approaches.
Postmodernism, on the other hand, sees no clear path or progress, focusing on questioning the role of art itself.
The role of music and art has changed in a post-industrial society, leading to different perceptions of their purpose.
Walter Benjamin's essay 'The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction' is crucial in understanding how industrialization changed the nature of art.
Modernists believe that traditional art forms are no longer relevant in the modern era, advocating for shedding tradition to move forward artistically.
Postmodernists view this differently, believing that art needs to be reinvented and its role questioned, rather than progressing linearly.
Transcripts
hey folks welcome to a new general topic
video about music composition
in this video i want to talk about two
broad tendencies about our creation
that go under the name of modernism and
postmodernism
[Music]
modernism and post-modernism are just
general
aggregators of different approaches to
artistic creation and that can be used
to
understand the motivations behind a
certain work
or understanding certain stylistic
features
first of all let me state that neither
modernism or postmodernism
are specific artistic styles
the fact that they are present in
different art forms
is clear indicator that they are not
referring to a specific
stylistic choice or artistic movement
but rather they're useful to understand
the motivations
behind certain works and how
these two ideas are an attempt
to answer important questions
about the role of art in modern society
[Music]
whether art is entertainment is
a form of knowledge a way to expand our
cognitive abilities
is it a form of communication is it a
spiritual endeavor
or is it one of these or is it all of
the above
[Music]
it might be hard to address whether a
work is
modernist or postmodernist if we just
consider a single work
but these two ideas can be useful
to address certain stylistic
trajectories
and address certain solicit choices over
time
[Music]
so modernism is usually traced to the
beginning
of the 20th century uh some people trace
it a little bit earlier
and uh it leaves across different art
forms and in general
refers to an idea of breaking from
traditional canon and advanced
music towards a certain goal
[Applause]
in my previous video i talked about
adorno
[Music]
adorno is a good representative of the
modernist idea
he believes in artistic progress
and he has clear ideas of what this
progress should look like
the 12-tone idea is very modernist
in a way that drops tonality as
a system but also because he proposes a
new way forward
which is an important tenet of modernism
not just a rejection of
tradition but also way forward
to create new ideas more in tune
with modern times schoenberg is the
starting point for
modernism in music but his general
approach to music is
embodied and continued by composers such
as boulez
stockhausen and xenakis
even if they didn't embrace the 12-tone
idea
in the way that schoenberg intended they
still
embrace the idea of having a new system
to replace the old system
[Music]
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
do
postmodernism can only be defined
after we have defined modernism as it is
challenging of one of modernism tenets
which is the idea of progress
and the importance of technique john
cage stated
that the 12 tone technique gives you the
bricks but no plan
cross-modernism it goes to the core of
the problem which is
what is music to begin with what is its
role what is it supposed to convey
and it does not necessarily answer that
question but
it just proposes this question to the
audience
through the work of art cage famous 433
which is a piece where the performer
does not play
a single note brings the audience into
the piece
making it aware of itself really
breaking the third wall
between the piece and the audience where
the audience is
actively participating in the piece and
being challenged to question what the
limits
of the medium are
in that sense post-modernism uh is a
more philosophical
[Music]
mindset
both modernism and postmodernism are an
attempt to answer this question
what is music supposed to achieve and
what it is to begin with
i think modernism does give an answer
and answer based on
a natural progress that the composer is
supposed to follow
and each work of art is justified
if it brings the discussion the
technique
the art form forward uh so that
that's the justification that's the
impetus behind the modernist
philosophy if the current audience
does not understand this particular way
of writing music
it's because it's in a way not yet
understood but it will be in the in the
future so in a way
modernists are in a dialogue with future
generations
[Music]
[Music]
for a postmodernist composer there is no
clear
path there is no clear progress that we
can follow
the only way that we have to keep
creating
is by questioning the art itself
what is the role of music and the role
of
art in modern society is of course a
question that cannot be answered easily
or triggered the modernist movement and
subsequently the postmodernist
movement is the perception that this
role has changed in a post-industrial
society
the writings of uh walter benjamin
who is another one of the critical
theorists
of the frankfort school is very
important
he wrote an essay called the work of art
in the
age of mechanical reproduction he
considers how
art has changed as a result of
the industrialization which makes the
reproduction of the work of art
an effortless endeavor depriving the art
of what he calls the aura
a certain quality which made art unique
in past times
if we had to see a painting we had to go
to that place
and the object itself possessed this
aura and made it an invaluable piece
same thing for a certain piece of music
that had to be performed and
was only present in that moment at that
time
since this has all changed the work of
art has
changed as well modernism responds
there is still work to be done towards
an artistic progress but in order to do
that
the artist needs to shed all of the
tradition because it's not relevant
anymore
while the postmodernists see this as a
different problem not a problem of
moving forward
but a problem of having to reinvent
completely the art itself
and questioning its role so i hope this
was
informative thank you for watching and
until the next time
take care
[Music]
you
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