These AI editors are getting out of hand
Summary
TLDRThe video discusses the recent controversy surrounding Pier AI, an open-source AI code editor built on top of VS Code. The controversy began when it was revealed that Pier AI is essentially a fork of Continue.dev, with minimal changes aside from rebranding. The presenter shares concerns about the ethics of forking an open-source project, raising funds, and competing with the original. They also highlight the challenges of competing with large entities like Microsoft, which consistently improves VS Code, questioning the long-term viability of such AI-powered editors in the developer space.
Takeaways
- 📢 Pier AI is a new open-source AI code editor built on top of VS Code and another editor called Continue.
- 🔥 The project faced backlash after a tweet revealed it was a fork of Continue with minor modifications, raising questions about originality.
- 🔍 Pier AI is accused of simply rebranding Continue by replacing references to Continue with Pier in the codebase, which led to community criticism.
- 💼 Pier AI's team applied and got accepted into Y Combinator, despite YC already funding Continue, leading to discussions about the ethics of funding forks.
- ⚡ Some developers believe the value proposition of Pier AI is weak, arguing that VS Code and Continue already solve many of the same problems.
- 🛠️ Developers argue it's challenging to build a truly innovative editor, especially on top of VS Code, which already provides powerful extensions and tools.
- 🤔 The community is concerned that Pier AI is relying too much on existing work, particularly in the AI-powered editor space, without providing significant differentiation.
- 🏗️ The discussion extends to the broader editor landscape, where most new editors are built on VS Code, except for Zed, which is starting from scratch.
- 💡 Some developers prefer using external AI tools like GPT-4 or Claude, instead of integrating them directly into editors like VS Code or GitHub Copilot, due to interruptions in workflow.
- 📉 The general sentiment is that Microsoft's ecosystem, including VS Code, GitHub, and Copilot, is too robust for these new AI editors to significantly disrupt in the long term.
Q & A
What is Pier AI and why has it caused controversy?
-Pier AI is an AI-based code editor built on top of VS Code and Continue.dev. It caused controversy because it cloned Continue.dev, made minimal changes (mostly renaming), and applied for funding from Y Combinator, which had also funded Continue.dev. Many criticized this as unethical, raising funds based on another project’s work.
What is the main criticism of Pier AI's approach?
-The main criticism is that Pier AI cloned Continue.dev, replaced its branding, and presented it as a new product. This was seen as unfair and disrespectful to the original developers, especially since Pier AI raised funding by marketing itself as a distinct product.
Why are people upset about Pier AI getting funding from Y Combinator?
-People are upset because Y Combinator funded both Pier AI and Continue.dev, despite Pier AI being a fork of Continue.dev. Critics argue that funding multiple similar projects creates uncertainty and shows a lack of innovation.
What is AGPLv3 and how does it relate to this controversy?
-AGPLv3 is a license that requires any changes or improvements made to a software project to be shared if the project is used over a network. In the Pier AI controversy, the discussion around licenses highlighted concerns about transparency and the ethical use of open-source software.
What alternative examples of code editors are mentioned in the script?
-The script mentions several alternatives, including Zed, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Zed is praised for building an editor from scratch to address performance issues, while Cursor and Copilot are seen as more intrusive in the development workflow.
Why is VS Code considered difficult to disrupt, according to the speaker?
-VS Code is considered difficult to disrupt because it has a massive codebase and is backed by Microsoft, which is heavily invested in the developer ecosystem. VS Code’s constant updates and wide integration make it challenging for competitors to outpace its development.
What are some issues with AI-based code editors like Cursor and Copilot?
-The speaker criticizes AI-based editors like Cursor and Copilot for being intrusive, interrupting the coding workflow. Although AI can assist with coding tasks, these editors sometimes overstep and complicate the user experience.
What does the speaker mean by ‘fork of a fork’ in this context?
-In this context, 'fork of a fork' refers to Pier AI being based on Continue.dev, which itself is a fork of VS Code. This layering of forks creates concerns about originality, as Pier AI is seen as making minimal changes to its predecessors while raising funds.
How does the speaker view Microsoft's position in the developer space?
-The speaker believes that Microsoft is strongly positioned in the developer space, owning key tools like GitHub, npm, TypeScript, Azure, and VS Code. They argue that Microsoft will continue to dominate, making it difficult for competitors like Pier AI to succeed in the long term.
What is the speaker's stance on using AI in coding?
-The speaker is open to using AI in coding but prefers to use external tools like GPT or Claude instead of integrated plugins. They find that integrated AI tools like Cursor and Copilot interrupt their workflow, whereas external tools provide more control and flexibility.
Outlines
🖥️ Pier AI: The New AI Code Editor Controversy
The speaker introduces the drama surrounding Pier AI, an open-source AI code editor built on top of VS Code and Continue. The controversy started when Pier AI announced it was accepted into Y Combinator, leading to backlash from the community. Allegations arose that Pier AI simply forked Continue.dev, another AI code editor, and replaced all references to Continue with Pier AI. The speaker expresses skepticism about Pier AI's originality and purpose, and shows how community notes pointed out the similarities between the two projects.
💻 Forking Controversy and Open-Source Ethics
This section expands on the ethical concerns regarding Pier AI, explaining that the community feels the project raised funds based on someone else's work. The speaker critiques Pier AI for not adding much value beyond forking Continue.dev and VS Code. They argue that the product's unique selling proposition (USP) doesn’t warrant the hype or the funding it has received, especially when Continue and VS Code already exist. The speaker also discusses how AI tools like Cursor and others face similar issues, being built on the massive existing codebase of VS Code.
🔧 AI Editors and Their Limitations
The speaker reflects on their personal experience using AI editors like Cursor and GitHub Copilot, stating that while these tools can be useful, they often interrupt workflow. They prefer to use external tools like GPT or Claude for specific tasks rather than relying on AI within the code editor itself. Additionally, the speaker questions the value of new AI editors, such as the Void editor, and criticizes their reliance on forking VS Code, which brings along existing performance issues.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Pier AI
💡VS Code
💡Continue.dev
💡Y Combinator (YC)
💡Forking
💡AGPL License
💡Open Source
💡GitHub
💡Cursor
💡Microsoft
Highlights
Discussion about the new AI code editor called Pier AI.
Pier AI is an open-source AI code editor built on top of Visual Studio Code (VS Code) and Continue.
Announcement that Pier AI got accepted into Y Combinator.
Backlash on Twitter regarding Pier AI's announcement and its approach.
Community notes reveal Pier AI as a fork of Continue Dev with mass replacement of references.
GitHub examination shows changes in comments and renaming from Continue to Pier AI.
Comparison of Pier AI and Continue Dev, both being AI-based editors and open-source.
Criticism on the definition of 'open AI' and the nuances of open-source.
Concerns about Pier AI's funding application to YC without significant unique selling points.
Y Combinator's strategy of funding multiple projects in the same area.
Microsoft's developer-centric approach and its influence on the editor market.
The challenge of building a successful editor from scratch compared to forking existing ones.
Discussion on the performance and limitations of editors built on top of VS Code.
Personal experience and opinion on AI plugins within the coding workflow.
The tweet that backfired and the community's reaction to Pier AI's approach.
Ethical concerns regarding Pier AI's use of open-source work and fundraising.
The role of the AGPL license in the context of Pier AI's development.
Opinions on the long-term viability of forking projects for funding and market share.
The importance of strong open-source ethics and respecting original creators' work.
Comparison with other editors like Zed, which is built from scratch.
Final thoughts on the editor space and the role of AI in coding assistance.
Transcripts
let's discuss this trama which is going
on on Twitter and probably on some other
platforms as well which is this new AI
editor called as Pier AI which says it's
open source it's an AI code editor it's
built on top of VSS code and continue
which is another editor which is also
built on top of vs code so I just want
to discuss what has happened in the last
few days with this regards walk you
through a few important tweets and share
my own opinion as well on these editors
in general which probably isn't what
you're thinking so where it started was
I think from this tweet itself so where
they announced that PR AI is company
which they applied in y combinator and
it got accepted it's an open- Source AI
code editor which is like you know
everyone how it says like it's the best
version of everything which is available
so that's the similar idea with them but
this tweet backfired a lot on these
people and I'll tell you like what
happened so if I can show you the
community note uh which was here I think
this is one of the few notes I think
Community note has been removed from
their tweet earlier it was there but I
can see it still because I am a
community notes editor so you can see
like there are a few notes which are
already there which is like it says like
P is a fork of continue. Dev and open
source AI code editor PR a used
continue. devs code and mass replaced
all the references to continue to PR a
okay a a lot of things to grasp so let's
just try to open their GitHub first and
let's just try to go back to okay they
have changed a a little bit of comment
messages here and there also so if you
look at this comment for example where
in this PRM module uh they renamed
continue to PR it's very clear and get
up you can see like all the occurences
occurrences where they have just changed
the name from continue. D to prai so if
you look at these two websites they are
pretty much doing the same things right
so they are also continue is also
creating an AI based editor and PR AI is
also creating the same editor continue
is also open source p is also open
source continue is also built on vs code
this one is also built on vs code but
their definition of AI and open AI is
like open source is basically slightly
different in some nuanced way to be very
honest it doesn't really matter except
un until unless your source code is
anywh open it doesn't really matter
maybe the AIS which they are using as
models are also running on computer
maybe not I don't know what's the what's
the crunch here but the fundamental
thing is that if you are just taking a
project on get Hub get cloning it
replacing all the occurrences like they
have done for example in this specific
commit pushing it applying to YC with a
specific USB that okay we will just run
the AI models on you know users device
for example as a code differentiator
it's a great project but I do agree with
the stance here that this is something
which should not be funded as a project
given that YC also has funded continue
so YC has funded this project YC has
funded PRI YC has funded a few more
projects in the same area the idea is
that YC probably is just funding every
single player or every single major
player which they think would could
become in the next few years and they
are betting that vs code as an editor
would probably not be as popular as it
is right now or Microsoft would not you
know be back with a very huge Plug-In or
you know very huge improvements in gith
up co-pilot which to be honest according
to my opinion seems very wrong because
this is something I also wrote as one of
the tweets so if you go back to one of
the tweets which I just you know wrote a
few weeks back YC also funded the void
editor right again one of the things but
I don't I don't get this what's
happening over here because I for one
know that Microsoft is very very
developer Centric for example you will
see Microsoft owning GitHub npm
typescript as your vs code it has a lot
of shares in open a also all of these
editors which are getting funded they
almost always are building on top of vs
code I have not seen any editor except
Zed which is getting built from scrap
these editors are built on top of vs
code so they bring in all the bad things
of vs code also whether in terms of
performance or in terms of any sort of
limitations which exist for example what
Zed is solving is for performance mainly
so all of those things are there on top
of that they are trying to hack around a
little bit of AI for example and they
expect that this would blow up as an
editor for I don't know for what use
case I don't see it in that way to be
very honest I as a developer am not able
to see it I have not tried out this
editor the one void editor but I have
tried out cursor I couldn't feel it like
my use case was great when it is
combined with just clae or you know GPT
outside of the editor when I need the AI
I can just give it context and I can get
the work done I've tried cursor it
interrupts a lot I've tried GitHub
co-pilot also it interrupts a lot I
don't use any AI plugins within the
workflow itself I use AI but when it is
required I just use an external website
like Claude or GPT or even Cod dam.com
which is also gp4 but this tweet over
here has backfired a lot because what
these guys effectively have done is get
cloning ripoff of an editor there was
some issue with license also so someone
Community noted us that saying we are
misleading people by not mentioning
continue in this thread we are way too
open and transparent of a community for
the slander we have mentioned we are a
fork of both vs code and continue since
day one and can be seen the first line
of GitHub description okay see the
problem here is that it people are not
coming after you if this was launched as
a project which was you know great in
terms of like you are forking vs code
and you're building on top of some of
the functionalities great what you doing
is that you are forking an open source
project even raising funding on that
based on some level of USP and people
just think that that value proposition
doesn't exist why not continue dodev
itself why not vs code itself cursor for
example cursor I think has done a lot
more optimizations on top of vs code
itself I was reading their blog post the
other day I think like uh yeah this one
our problems yeah so these are some of
the problems which cursor is trying to
solve from a fundamental level right if
you look at softwares like these even
the you know continue. Dev I would say
probably these softwares are great but
they are built on top of a very huge
code base that already exists that is vs
code so the community problem I feel
what people have been pointing out so
far is that that hey you just raised a
lot of funds based on somebody else's
work and then you are using those
metrics the contributor count and you
know what we are doing how we are doing
it you're using those metrics and
boosting about your product that is I
think the fundamental problem with what
what has happened over here I think
there was another issue with the agpl
license over here which I remember
seeing so you see when they were
renaming it from continue to PR this was
the only message which they wrote in the
conversation now this might be a light
you know joke or something but it of
course turns out to be a bad thing if
you view it from all point of views so
they just mentioned it's ours now and
just renamed it I think four five months
ago and they just merged it right so
again like they have then given
explanation of why we are transparent
and all but still so Pier richelson
who's also the founder of cal.com has
also written something about this which
I just want to quickly glance over so he
does say that I don't think funding
Forks is a winning strategy I have yet
to see a fork to be more successful than
the initial Steward looking at you bun
so bun is not exactly a NOS for but
still as as of today I don't see how vs
code needs a fork and my point of view
is that all these cute AI extensions are
in fact vs code extensions I use super
Maven a lot big fan so this is something
I also agree with at some point even
though I don't even use vs code
extensions but I have used GitHub
co-pilot in past I just don't use it
because it interrupts a lot but I feel
like all of these softwares can be a
functional see the the bigger problem
with software in general today right now
is not people see that AI would just
reinvent everything it's not going to
happen software engineering is very deep
if you look at a project like vs code
and if you open it you won't imagine how
much work it takes to create something
like a you know a software that can open
a file with 100,000 lines and then
effectively render and syntax highlight
and and do everything if you think that
your USB is just AI powered code editor
and you just start to create that from
scratch you have to still solve a lot of
problems that vs code has already sld
that's why people Fork over it and they
just call it a day and just raise the
funds and so on the problem is that
people are forgetting that it's really
really hard to build really really good
software and even harder to build great
business so that is where the focus
should be according to me when you are
funding somebody or when you are funding
a potential that is the team capable of
solving really hard problems which is
what I'm seeing here as well in this
tweet that he says that vs code doesn't
need a fork funding a fork of a fork is
a Next Level uncertainty so I mean yeah
continue. Dev is a fork of vs code this
new project which is like questionable
is a fork of a fork to make it open
source you need strong open source
ethics you are looking to build a
community starting day one saying it's
ours now is a crazy disrespectful even
if the fork is technically legal it's
highly unethical and I don't think it's
great start to find pmf among developers
I 100% agree with the statement for
somebody most of the developers at some
point would have seen some level of Open
Source work or they realize like how
difficult it is to build software and
even though it's like in done in a
lightweight manner in a jokingly manner
it still feels a bit disrespectful for
the original creators of the software on
the other hand maybe vs code has reached
the infrastructure level where it's just
too big to rebuild similar to chromium
every browser today out there is a
chromium fork and we don't seem to care
this much may be true but I mean the
counter example is that Zed is doing
exactly what vs code is but from a very
core scratch so yeah so agpl helps lot a
lot to migrate all of this mitigate a
lot of this so what what is what exactly
is agplv3 license I've heard about this
license but I just don't know it I know
that's like a very permissive license so
agpl agpl V3 states that you must share
any changes or improvements you make
especially if the people are using a
version over the Internet mid you can do
whatever you want is strict about
sharing while mid license gives you much
more freedom to use and change okay fair
enough so yeah that's it basically for
this whole drama nothing serious I think
has come out of it so far like maybe
like people are attacking YC and all of
that but I don't like how that would
play out in long term what do you think
about this editor space in general I
mean my stance is pretty clear I am
sticking with vs code and I know for a
fact that these editors they can get
great but it's a similar story like how
Ark for example works as a browser I
still don't understand Ark as a browser
in general uh so as you can see I'm
already I'm of course using Chrome and
chromium similar thing exists with vs
code and in general with these browser
Zed I like a lot because they are taking
a bold move they are starting from
scratch what needs to be done and it's
interesting to see that some somebody
has the confidence to pull the soft
these editors they seem like a little
bit of hacking around on top of vs code
to be very honest I I mean there is real
engineering going on here over Ai and
what for example cursor is doing but
what I'm still struggling to understand
why this cannot be a GitHub why this
cannot be a vs code extension right VSS
code extensions are very powerful they
allow you to inject into a lot of the
ecos system of vs code the editor you
know what happens when you're writing
whatever it is and if that is something
thing which is not fulfilling your need
why can't you contribute directly to vs
code of course if you Fork it and if you
create a company you get funding and you
have the potential shot at you know
maybe disrupting vs code space but the
problem is the problem if you think of
it on a long-term basis the problem is
that Microsoft will catch up within the
next 6 months or 1 year or 2 years
because it's it's a giant which is not
sleeping look at vs code repository
right now if you go to vs code and if
you open this GitHub for example the
last commit was 10 minutes ago okay it
was 10 minutes ago you cannot beat these
people at their own game in terms of the
quality of product they are building
similarly Microsoft is investing heavily
in the developer space GitHub GitHub
extensions co-pilot all of this it's
it's a losing battle in long term that's
all I'm saying you might win a small
market share right now but unless you
are taking a radically different
approach and your core proposition is
different like Zed for example we'll
also figure that out maybe in the next
few months or years but unless you're
doing that I think it's a losing
strategy and that is what I think is the
core reason like why people are upset
that you get funding also you know you
raise around after forking it and just
building a little bit of things here and
there but yeah let me know what you
think about this what editor do you use
today yourself any AI tools which you're
using right now to help you assist with
coding that is all for this one I'm
going to see you in the next video
really soon
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