How to never stop learning
Summary
TLDRIn the 'In the Black' podcast, Jessica Mutt interviews Shelly Laslett and Hugh Thomas on continuous learning for accountants and finance professionals. They discuss the importance of lifelong learning for career growth, overcoming procrastination, and prioritizing learning amidst competing tasks. Laslett emphasizes the value of adaptive learning and metacognition, while Thomas advises on carving out time for learning and speaking to employers about professional development. Both stress the need for finance professionals to embrace change, develop strategic thinking, and enhance interpersonal skills to future-proof their careers.
Takeaways
- đ Continuing learning is crucial for personal and professional growth, as it is linked to brain health and career progression.
- đ Structured learning ends at university, but the need for continuous learning persists to stay relevant in a rapidly changing professional landscape.
- đ§ Learning new, challenging skills is essential for brain health and adapting to the evolving demands of the modern workforce.
- đ ïž The concept of an 'adaptive learner' involves customizing learning experiences to suit individual needs and the specific demands of tasks.
- đ€ Metacognition, or thinking about one's thinking, is a key component of adaptive learning, helping to monitor and improve learning effectiveness.
- đ Procrastination can be a form of 'positive procrastination' when it allows the brain time to ruminate and plan effectively before executing tasks.
- đ Effective time management involves prioritizing tasks and creating structure, which can help manage competing priorities and allocate time for learning.
- đ Understanding and communicating the value proposition of learning to an employer is essential for gaining support and resources for professional development.
- đ Collective prioritization with team members ensures alignment and shared understanding of what is important, which is crucial when working in a team setting.
- đ The ability to influence, think strategically, and provide insights will become increasingly valuable as automation and AI impact the job market.
- đ Building broader business acumen and management capabilities on top of a strong foundation in finance and accounting will future-proof one's career.
Q & A
Why is continuous learning important for accountants and finance professionals according to Shelly Laslett?
-Continuous learning is important for accountants and finance professionals because learning is an essential part of growth. When we stop learning, we stop growing, both professionally and neurologically. Learning hard new things is particularly important as it contributes to brain health and progression in one's career.
What does Shelly Laslett mean by 'adaptive learner'?
-An 'adaptive learner' is someone who can adjust their learning styles or needs based on the task at hand. It involves customizing learning experiences to address unique needs rather than adopting a one-size-fits-all approach to learning.
How does Shelly Laslett define metacognition in the context of learning?
-Metacognition, in the context of learning, is the process of thinking about one's thinking. It involves being aware of the learning process, having beliefs about oneself as a learner, recognizing emotions and feelings related to learning, and employing strategies to monitor and track the effectiveness of one's learning.
What is the relationship between procrastination and learning according to the podcast?
-The podcast suggests that procrastination can be seen as an emotional regulation problem rather than a time management issue. It can be a sign that the brain is trying to buy time to think creatively and innovatively about a task before executing it. Moderate procrastination can be beneficial as it allows for rumination and better planning.
How can finance professionals prioritize learning amidst competing priorities, as suggested by Shelly Laslett?
-Finance professionals can prioritize learning by establishing a structure and order to their work, using systems like a traffic light system for task prioritization or sizing tasks. They should also plan their week in advance, align priorities with team members, and use collective communication to ensure everyone is on the same page.
What advice does Hugh Thomas give on carving out time for learning?
-Hugh Thomas advises having a solid belief in oneself and clear goals for what one is trying to become, which can motivate one to find time for learning. He also suggests being assertive in saying no to short-term demands and focusing on long-term value.
What does Hugh Thomas mean by 'chunking up learning'?
-Chunking up learning refers to breaking down a large, overwhelming topic into smaller, more digestible pieces of learning. This technique makes the learning process less daunting and more manageable.
How can finance and accounting professionals speak to their employers about Learning and Development effectively?
-Finance and accounting professionals should be clear about the value proposition of the learning they wish to undertake, explaining how it will benefit both themselves and the company. They should also consider starting with informal learning that doesn't require managerial approval.
What is the importance of understanding the changing nature of work due to technology, AI, and automation, as mentioned by Hugh Thomas?
-Understanding the changing nature of work is crucial because it helps professionals identify the skills that are less likely to become redundant. It encourages them to focus on areas where technology cannot easily replace human interaction, such as strategic thinking, relationship building, and being a thought leader.
What is the website 'will robots take my job.com' and how can it be used by finance and accounting professionals?
-The website 'will robots take my job.com' provides an estimation of the risk that a particular job might be automated in the future. Finance and accounting professionals can use it to understand the potential threats to their current roles and adapt their learning and skills development accordingly.
What is the bonus advice Hugh Thomas gives to finance and accounting professionals for future-proofing their careers?
-Hugh Thomas advises finance and accounting professionals to focus on building broader business acumen and general management capabilities. He emphasizes the importance of developing skills around people interaction, leadership, and influence, as these are areas where technology is less likely to replace human expertise.
Outlines
đ The Importance of Lifelong Learning for Professionals
In the 'In the Black' podcast, Jessica introduces Shelly Laslett, an expert in brain-based coaching and guest lecturer at the University of Technology Sydney. Shelly emphasizes the significance of continuous learning beyond formal education, as it is crucial for personal and professional growth. She explains that learning is not just about acquiring new information but about challenging ourselves with difficult tasks that push our current capabilities. This approach is vital for staying relevant in a rapidly evolving industry and for maintaining brain health. Shelly also discusses the concept of being an 'adaptive learner,' which involves customizing learning experiences to suit individual needs and leveraging metacognition to enhance the learning process.
đ Metacognition and Overcoming Procrastination
This paragraph delves into the concept of metacognition, which involves thinking about one's own thinking and is essential for adaptive learning. It breaks down into three levels: metacognitive knowledge, experience, and strategies. The speaker discusses the importance of recognizing one's emotions towards learning and using metacognitive strategies to monitor and track learning effectiveness. Procrastination is also addressed, with the speaker suggesting that it can be a form of emotional regulation, giving the brain time to ruminate and plan before executing tasks. The advice includes setting boundaries for 'positive procrastination' and using the time to reflect on the task at hand and one's emotional state.
đ Prioritizing Learning Amidst Competing Demands
Shelly provides strategies for finance professionals to prioritize learning despite heavy workloads. She suggests establishing a structured system for prioritizing tasks using a traffic light system or a grading system. The importance of aligning individual priorities with those of the team is highlighted, emphasizing the need for collective communication and understanding. Regular check-ins and standup meetings are recommended to ensure alignment and avoid mismanagement of tasks and deadlines.
đ Preparing for the Future in Finance and Accounting
The conversation concludes with advice for finance and accounting professionals on preparing for the future. The guest speaker encourages professionals to leverage their deep understanding of financial literacy to empower others and emphasizes the value of this knowledge in helping individuals and businesses succeed. The focus is on using one's expertise to educate and assist others in understanding financial matters, which is seen as a powerful tool for personal and professional development.
â° Time Management and Learning Strategies
Hugh Thomas, head of offerings at Blue seed Consulting, shares practical tips on finding time to learn despite a busy schedule. He stresses the importance of having a clear sense of purpose and goals, being assertive in saying no to urgent but less important tasks, and being disciplined in making time for learning. Hugh also discusses the common trap of viewing time as a limited resource rather than a set of priorities. He advises focusing on what is valuable in the long term and using calendars and planning tools to manage time effectively.
đ§ Chunking Learning and Communicating with Employers
The concept of 'chunking' is introduced as a technique to make learning more manageable by breaking it down into smaller, more digestible pieces. Hugh shares his personal experience with applying chunking in his career, emphasizing the importance of identifying patterns and building on existing knowledge. Additionally, he provides guidance on how to approach employers about learning opportunities, suggesting that employees clearly communicate the value proposition of the learning to their managers and the company.
đ€ The Impact of Technology on Future Jobs and Learning
In this final paragraph, the discussion turns to the impact of technology, AI, and automation on the future of jobs, particularly in accounting. Hugh warns that roles that are highly technical and require little human interaction are at risk of becoming redundant. He advises finance and accounting professionals to focus on developing skills that technology cannot easily replicate, such as strategic thinking, insight provision, relationship building, and creative trend analysis. The emphasis is on becoming a trusted advisor with strong leadership and influence capabilities.
Mindmap
Keywords
đĄContinuous Learning
đĄAdaptive Learner
đĄMetacognition
đĄNeuroscience
đĄProfessional Qualification
đĄProcrastination
đĄTime Management
đĄPrioritization
đĄChunking
đĄValue Proposition
đĄLearning Organization
Highlights
The importance of continuous learning beyond university for professional and neurological growth.
Learning new, challenging skills is crucial for brain health and career progression.
Adapting to industry changes requires ongoing learning to stay relevant.
The concept of being an 'adaptive learner' involves customizing learning experiences to individual needs.
Metacognition plays a key role in adaptive learning by enhancing self-awareness and learning strategies.
Procrastination can be a form of positive reflection, allowing the brain time to ruminate on tasks.
Time management is more about emotional regulation than just ticking off tasks.
Creating structure and order helps in prioritizing tasks amidst competing priorities.
The value of collective prioritization and communication in a team setting.
Practical advice on carving out time for learning despite a busy schedule.
The benefits of chunking learning into digestible pieces for better retention and application.
Speaking to employers about Learning and Development should focus on the value proposition.
The future of finance and accounting jobs in the context of automation and AI.
Developing broader business acumen and people skills to complement technical accounting knowledge.
The necessity for organizations to foster a culture of continuous learning to stay competitive.
Emphasizing the importance of relationship building and strategic thinking in the finance and accounting profession.
Encouraging finance and accounting professionals to become thought leaders and influencers.
Transcripts
this is in the black a leadership
strategy and business podcast brought to
you by CPA
[Music]
Australia hello and welcome to in the
black career hacks podcast I am Jessica
mut to help us understand how
accountants and finance professionals
can overcome Common Road to learning I'm
speaking to Shelly laslett Shel is the
CEO and co-founder of V coach which uses
brain-based coaching based on
Neuroscience she's also a guest lecturer
at the University of Technology Sydney
and the director of people and culture
at ux research platform usability Hub
welcome Shelly it's great to have you
here thanks Jess it's great to be here I
think that many of us draw a line in the
sand when we finish University thinking
that the learning is done and it's now
time to start earning why do you think
it's important for us to continue
learning throughout our careers yeah
it's a really good question I think also
learning up until that point is super
structured so part of the reason we sort
of feel that it ends is because the
structure Falls away so to answer your
question about why it's important it's
because really learning is essential
part of growth it's it's sort of when we
stop learning we stop growing and that
happens not just on a professional level
but it happens on a neurological level
too learning is particularly important
to brain health and it's also important
to progression overall but there's sort
of a little bit of lower level detail
around that and it's not learning just
general things it's actually learning
hard new things is incredibly important
so stuff that is beyond reach currently
within our current
capability but things that we desire and
Tain so professional qualification um an
upskilling in a certain type of coding
or language that we wanted to a learning
of a new language learning of a new
skill and whether that's physical or
musical all of these types of things are
actually super super important to us but
when we think about our career
trajectory what we know is that careers
are anything but stagnant in the Modern
Age so we've seen a lot of change even
in the last 10 years in terms of skill
set capability you know the work we do
at usability HUB is an example of that
what we used to think with sort of
nuance then perhaps Niche now becomes
the norm and it's really important when
we think about our own progress in
careers so our own learning is that we
have to be going to where our industry
is and what I mean by that is what's
coming for our industry what's on the
horizon and how am I using my skills
that I either have today or skills that
I'm going to attain to stay relevant to
my industry or relevant to my clients
because we know in terms of tech and the
way that it changes things we can't
simply rest on The Laurels of what we
want new we have to continue growing and
learning and I think one of the best
guiding principles we can we can take in
that is what are you excited by so when
you think of your industry when you
think of where you are when you think of
where it's going what bits of that get
you excited what draws you in to start
to think about how you would essentially
play in those areas if you could but to
give up on kind of learning is to give
up on progress and to give up on
progress is to give up on progression
and that's kind of a you know
professional suicide position really we
really want to think about how do we
continue to grow ourselves and thereby
be part of the growth within our
industry wow okay so that's a really
powerful reason to continue learning
shell the term adaptive learner is one
that I must confess I haven't heard much
about um could you kind of break down
what an Adaptive learner is and share
your tips for cultivating that kind of a
mindset yeah sure so I think when we
talk about adaptive learner it's kind of
in the title right so the ability to DAP
down learning styles or our learning
needs based on the task that's in front
of us and what does that really mean
without sounding to academic it's what's
ahead of us and what do I need to do
with what I have today to adapt to get
to the outcome I'm after so I think
adaptive learning in general is more
about that custom learning experiences
experience as such so how does it
address the unique need that you have
versus a blanket all approach to
learning so often what you see in
classrooms or in universities a blanket
all approaches to learning an Adaptive
learning style and this like caveat has
been integrated into Tech in a number of
ways of Designing excuse me adaptability
and algorithmic adaptability it's
looking at the nuance and the uniqueness
of what you need to do as a learner and
how you need to adapt either yourself or
the modification of what you're learning
to suit your needs so what that really
means if we break it down is how do we
adapt to what I need to do next to get
the outcome I want and this stuff Tails
really quite cleanly into a process of
of thinking and that's called
metacognition so effectively thinking
about our thinking it's a neurological
process that we humans do um and it has
a lot of B benefit uh when it comes to
learning so metacognition kind of breaks
down into three levels it's like
metacognitive metacognitive knowledge
like my awareness of the learning
process the beliefs I have about myself
as a learner and others my metacognitive
experience emotions and feelings related
to learning some of us love learning and
can't wait for the challenge some of us
are more resistant that's okay it's just
part of it and our metacognitive
strategies and this is a bit that
relates to that adaptivity about
learning so what are the what do you
design and processes do you use to
monitor how you're learning and track
your Effectiveness in terms of
ascertaining that knowledge and that's
probably the most important part it's
awareness of where I am as a Learner in
the process of either my Mastery or my
misunderstanding of what I'm trying to
do so metacognition is something you we
have you don't need to go away and buy
it you don't need to upload it you don't
need to do a course it's simply
something you have it's a muscle and so
we should use it so when it comes to
Adaptive learning the things I would say
sort ofic
metacognitive knowledge what do you
already believe about yourself as a
learner CU it's likely you might have
some false beliefs and we hear people
talk about this I'm not very good at
math I'm not very good at exams I'm
better at this I'm better at that you
might know your natural preferences if
you're being self-directed in your
learning you're not on a course you're
not being told how to do it use that to
your advantage adapt that to how you
would like to be learning the
metacognitive experience is notice the
emotions that come with it do you get a
little bit of anxiety when it comes to
learning do you get excitement know that
anxiety and excitement are actually kind
of the same neurological cocktail is how
you characterize the emotion which in
influences whether or not it's positive
or negative but that medactive
strategies be is super important so what
are you going to do to have
checkpoints or reflection points with
yourself to know actually did I
understand that so often we might okay
I've got to move through modules 3 to
four I'm going to go through 3.1 3.2
okay tick tick tick tick tick but we
don't go back and reflect actually did I
understand that I might have ticked the
box but did I actually understand this
so going and doing that practice quiz or
going and you know working with a
partner or someone to say hey ask me a
question about this and then seeing if
you can articulate it you this is why
those practical practice exams if we're
looking at professional qualifications
are super important because what you're
doing is putting that learning into
practice if you simply attain knowledge
without any practical application you're
not really learning okay that's a really
great insight into how our brains work
can we turn now to the common obstacles
and roadblocks to learning that many of
us face such as procrastination I'd love
to hear your tips for overcoming it and
to learn what's actually happening in
the brain while we're procrastinating
yeah great question so um I think it's
important to understand there's actually
a power in procrastination I think most
fol think of it like negative yeah I
know know everyone's going great I can
watch Netflix for hours as positive
procrastination
what we mean by that is it's generally
referred to as moderate procrastination
and it's something that our
organizational psychologist Adam Grant
kind of caused a sweet spot and what we
mean there is it's where we think kind
of about what we're trying to do in a
more wiser and effective way and what
that looks like is effective
procrastination so this moderate type of
procrastination is essentially buying
yourself time to think and it becomes
rumination time for the brain meaning
that sit back and reflect actually what
is the task here how am I going to do it
why am I potentially resistant to
starting this you know when we're
thinking I've got to do that thing but
I'm not sure why I'm not executing
immediately but what we really mean by
that is procrastination isn't so much a
time management problem think of it as
an emotional regulation problem and what
do I mean by that basically your brain
is trying to give you time and space to
think creatively and innovative about
the solution before driving into
execution when we talk about the power
of procrastination and sometimes our
brains unwillingness to execute
immediately it's actually for us to
potentially understand some of those
emotions underneath but also to regulate
ourselves more effectively to feel
comfortable to start the task so that
when we start we can focus and be
effective versus we just focused on
executing and I didn't really think this
through and now I'm halfway through
writing this assignment or I'm halfway
through executing on this model and I
realize I don't actually have what I
need
so sometimes it's about sitting back and
knowing that there is a bit of that
power in delaying the task just to give
yourself a moment but also to be quite
kind to yourself if you do delay the
task you're not being lazy or in
effective and I can't probably describe
it any more than it's an urge like you
go to execute and you don't that would
be an essence of your brain saying hang
on tick let's just think this one
through a little bit more let's buy
ourselves a bit of space so my advice
when you feel that urge is to stop and
reflect okay why am I why am I resisting
here what do I need to know more of have
I got everything covered that I need
before I go and execute what am I
missing these questions what am I
missing what's the outcome what am I
trying to achieve here if I execute in
this way will it achieve those
objectives stop reflect actually it's
probably not right what's missing some
of that work is equally as effective as
output now we can't procrastinate till
you know the cows come home you do have
to put a bit of a time box on it so what
I would say there is just set yourself
some guidelines meaning okay I'm going
to give myself this amount of hours or
this many days or this many weeks
depending on the size of the project or
the thing you're trying to execute and
that's going to be my positive
procrastination time and I'm going to
use the power of procrastination here to
my favor what I'm going to do is then
reframe how I'm thinking about the
project I'm going to break it down into
short Sprints and then I'm going to
focus that's just the first step I need
to take I'm going to stop and reflect
I'm going to have sub goals which are
going to keep me orientated on time
meaning don't think about the whole
project being completed thinking about
what you need to do in this moment be in
the now and then also to help you
regulate the emotions that come with
procrastination because often there's a
lot of guilt and that guilt you know you
go out and do something you're like oh I
should really be doing that thing you
kind of need to tell yourself put it
down time and space away from that thing
is actually going to allow me to
approach it in a better way okay Shelly
um I'd also love to hear your advice on
how to all the competing priorities we
face with little spare time and how do
we know what value to ascribe to
learning as opposed to performing well
at work and I think this is really true
for finance professionals who have a
huge load of tasks to complete not much
time how do you resolve that tension
yeah so effectively how do you
prioritize when everything's a priority
yeah very much yeah so first principles
is you know our brain loves structure in
order We crave structure and Order we're
kind of like patent recognitions
machines so when we don't have any
structure and order to the way we work
everything goes out the window so first
principles right have some structure and
order to how you prioritize work so do
you have a simple traffic light system
high medium low do you have a grading
system in software delivery we often use
sizing of tasks so is it small meding or
large if it was a T-shirt size what
actually is the thing you need to do
because you might have five really short
little tasks that you think that just
take me 5 minutes classic saying it
doesn't it actually takes like 5 hours
so the first thing is to have a way in
which you're going to structure and
prioritize your work whatever that looks
like to you again leverage the software
you have doesn't have to be fancy you
can be as simple as what's blocked out
in my Google Calendar what's blocked out
in my Outlook is what's getting done at
the time and then almost like your
prioritization or assessment Matrix what
am I going to use to actually figure out
what is the most pressing what is the
most pressing priority and this is hard
because it's often like make the plan
regulate the plan or get the work done
and there is no simple solution to that
I can't say here's a magic one for how
you solve that but what I will say is
the more rhythmic you get with using a
system to prioritize the more easy it
becomes and the more your mind will
relax into it so try as much as you can
to follow a process in which you will
bring structure and order to
prioritizing it doesn't have to be
complicated again red and the green we
most of us know what that means follow
that and put it down somewhere outside
of your head or heat super low Fidelity
chick boxes on a page this is the most
important thing this is what's happening
tomorrow one of the big things as well
with that is plan out your week don't
try and plan out your month it doesn't
really work that way but plan out your
week like when am I actually going to do
these key things that I need to get
delivered when am I structuring in my
breaks because then your workout
actually is that going to take me 5
minutes or is it going to take me an
hour and a half in which case I should
probably do that um some people like to
use the timer effect so they actually
stop a timer and they work out how long
it takes I know that's pretty popular
with some of the accounting mates that I
do have works for some people not for
all just find your own system to bring
structure and order into how you
prioritize and then your own rituals
around prioritization the other piece I
would say is if you're working with
other people collectively prioritize
what I mean by that is what you think
might be a priority might not be a
priority to someone else so make sure
there's alignment make sure there's like
whips or standups team ceremonies where
you know you're going to have those
check-in points to make sure that your
prioritization is aligned with theirs
working in isolation to sort of divide
and conquer is fantastic when you're
working in a team you also need those
connectivity points so you can have your
own individual way of organizing your
thoughts and prioritizing but if you're
working collectively make sure that
that's shared and there's an
understanding there because we've all
been on a project where we think
someone's doing something or we think
we're doing that and then we've either
doubled up or we're not sure or the
deadline got mismanaged it it happens so
those regular checkings are super
important structure and Order around
your own prioritization Matrix and then
that Collective communication if you're
working with others that's amazing
terrific okay um shell I've got a Bonus
question for you now
fantastic if you could give one piece of
advice on what a finance and accounting
professional could do now to prepare for
the future what would that be oh great
question so I think you know having a
deep understanding of accounting
practices and financial literacy overall
that folks in this area possess is
hugely
powerful and I mean that in a sense that
knowledge is power but only when you use
it to empower another so really know and
trust that the skills that you have
present you with a great opportunity to
help other people understand their
finances balance sheets and thereby the
basics and the complexity
of how individuals and businesses can
succeed and that's hugely valuable that
was amazing there's so many practical
things that we can do to keep
learning thanks Shell no problems
anytime want to talk learning you know
where find us thank you for having
me we hope you're enjoying in the blacks
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Economic and Business spectrum and you
get their expert
opinions now back to in the
black to help us understand how
accountants and finance professionals
can adopt efficient learning habits I'm
speaking to Hugh Thomas Hugh is head of
offerings thought leadership and
capability development at Blue seed
Consulting welcome Hugh it's great to
have you here thanks Jess great to be
here time is often described as our most
precious resource and we all seem to be
short on it can you please share some
practical tips on carving out time to
learn can we steal small chunks of time
here and there rather than striving to
find those elusive 1 hour blocks yeah
great question I think a lot of people
struggle with this one for me I think
the the first thing is sort of having a
a solid belief around uh learning
yourself
and a belief around what your goals are
and what you're trying to become and
when you've got that as the starting
point it gives you a strong motivation
to go and find the time if you don't
have that then you'll easily get
distracted by just the Urgent uh stuff
which is coming at you dayto day so I
think having that sense of purpose and
goals about where you're going is really
important I think having a bit being
pretty assertive to say no to some of
those shortterm things is really a
challenge for some people and is
something that they may need to work on
so pushing back on those urgent things
cuz that to-do list is never going to
end and we often won't find the time to
learn unless we say no to things pretty
firmly and I think the other is to try
and think about what that learning is
and like you say it doesn't have to be
sort of formal learning it can be you
know ongoing mentoring or could be just
trying something new and taking the
plunge into that and making or making
some reflective time to think about what
you did and and how you might learn from
that and then think about what that
topic is and just adopting a of
immersion in it so whether it's
listening reading the latest books on
that or podcasts and going to some
formal training or getting a mentor in
that thing and just surrounding yourself
in it for a period of time and making
some structured time to do that I think
that goes a long way to helping now we
only all get 24 hours in the day but
some people seem to do so much more in
theirs what's your advice on improving
time management skills and what do you
think are the most common traps that
people fall
into I think the most common trap Jess
is seeing time as this sort of limited
resource rather than what it really is
is just a set of priorities that you
make um each day and that you actually
have a lot of control over those and as
I sort of touched on before we get
locked into doing the Urgent stuff
rather than thinking about what's
important I think the most successful
High performers that I work with and a
lot of my clients who are CEOs and you
know have huge demands on them um are
really good at saying not a lot of small
things and those urgent things and
delegating but they just make time to
look ahead so they're looking at a three
year sort of horizon often or more or
one year or even a quarter and they're
breaking it down into those pieces
around okay if we need to achieve
something in that time or get better and
improve some capability in that time we
need to do these important things right
now or this week and they're really
disciplined about making the time for it
so think about what's not just urgent
and getting through that to-do list and
getting the dopamine hit out of through
that to-do list but actually thinking
about what's going to be most valuable
to me my career and the business I'm
working in in the long term and then
just being really assertive about making
the time to do it um I think the other
thing then is you know I or at least I
try is just to sort of obsess over my
calendar and really look at it regularly
and I try and plan sort of over a year a
quarter and then in a fortnightly basis
and then I'm looking at my calendar
virtually every day planning meetings
planning time I've got my personal
appointments and you know kids pickups
and things I've got to attend to there
and even weekend activities it's all in
there in one place and I just make sure
that I'm trying to follow that really
clearly and just move the boxes around
as needed and that's the kind of
practical thing I really obsess over now
let's talk about chunking chunking up
learning which is a term that I wasn't
familiar with can you tell us exactly
what it is and what are your tips for
mastering
it yeah it's it's an interesting concept
and this is the thing of you know the
reason why we break our phone numbers
down into those sort of three sets to
make them more memorable so I think we
we often shy away from learning
something new and a different discipline
because it seems overwhelming it seems
like a really big thing like my degree
is not in that thing I didn't study for
three years in that thing and it's going
to be really difficult to go and do that
thing but when we chunk it down into
small pieces it actually becomes much
more digestible into digestible pieces
of learning in in my experience I kind
of started my career as a a learning
strategist and designer in L&D then into
management and I moved into sort of
leadership coaching and training and
then i' I've I do a lot of sales and
business development and there sort of
different things but the thing the
chunking element that I used there was
sort of trying to see patterns in all
throughout all of them so there are
fundamentals throughout all of them
which is really just influencing people
and so that's the chunking technique
which is seeing that kind of pattern
from one thing to another and so what I
asked myself each time I was trying to
move into a different discipline was
what do I already know that's going to
be useful in this thing and then break
it down into those small pieces and how
can I apply what I already know and then
just sort of build on that adjacent
learning skill so it might be about
influencing people but it's within a
different process so I need to just
learn a specific process of selling
which is different to maybe change
management or designing some training
but the fundamental steps around you
know how I influence people is going to
be quite similar so I think that's one
thing one example of how I've used it
turning into digestible pieces just like
we break those phone numbers into
smaller sets to make them memorable and
then try to learn just one thing at a
time and not overwhelming yourself and I
think over time it's amazing what you
can learn in even the space of a year
just with those sort of small steps even
if there's a few little failures along
the way which you shouldn't shy away
from but if you just try those small
things learn from it and then learn the
next part of that big thing you're
you're trying to work on okay um Hugh
how should a person speak to their
employer about Learning and Development
and are there is there anything that
they shouldn't say I'd also be
interested to hear your thoughts on how
to frame the conversation to maximize
the chances of receiving a positive
response yeah a good one I think many
people and many employers as well sort
of see learning is a sort of a special
career perk or a distraction from your
actual work um so they're afraid to sort
of ask for funding or time off for
learning formal learning or perhaps
their boss has that sort of shortsighted
view of learning and is worried they're
going to learn something you and then
leave or they're going to lose their
good employees and I think that's it's
not a great View and I think a smart
boss is going to see someone who is
investing in themselves I certainly do
with my people when they want to invest
and learn I see it as a fantastic
opportunity they're going to improve
their performance it's going to make my
job easier and I might want to give them
my job and me so I can move on to
something greater in the future um but
if there's no one stepping up it makes
harder for me to grow and focus on
bigger things as well and so I I
encourage all leaders to see it that way
with their own people but as an employee
asking for that time off or that
investment I think be clear about what
the value proposition is and this
actually helps you and your employer
understand it I think we think about a
particular learning program you're
interested in you it for you to ask the
question or why why should I do that and
why am I interested in that and how
might I bring the value of that to my to
my team and to my company as well so I
think knowing that yourself actually
helps you go and capture the benefits
and turn the learning experience into
value for yourself but also for your
team and so if you sort of have that
value proposition clear in your in what
you say to your your manager when you're
asking for some funding or for a time
off or whatever it is you're really
clear about that value and and the why
behind it and the other thing I'd say as
well is you don't need your manager
approval for most types of learning you
might need it for the time off or for
for money in formal learning but you can
start learning straight away I've done
online courses in in my evenings and you
know I read books constantly and all
that sort of informal learning which you
don't really need your manager's
approval for so I'd encourage people to
not use that as a as a barrier the
changing nature of work with technology
and Ai and Automation and things like
that making rols redundant and our kids
are going to have very different jobs
probably many of which aren't invented
at the moment so if your organization
isn't a learning organization and is
isn't constantly evolving then it's at
risk um and there are going to be
competitors who will be learning
organizations who are going to adapt
more quickly who are going to work out
ways to save costs and to beat you in
the market with that or to bring new
offerings out and changing the way that
they they go to market and things like
that so it's it's going to change
significantly so if you're not trying to
become a learning organization if your
team isn't investing and learning and
your people aren't you know it's a risk
for your people 100
M sure okay okay F this is a bonus
question for you if you had one piece of
advice on what a finance and accounting
professional could do now to prepare for
the future what would that be yeah look
I I came across a website recently
called will robots take my job.com and
if if you go to that website and you
type in various accounting jobs into
that um you'll it tells you or any job
into it it'll tell you um the percentage
kind of risk that that job won't exist
in the future or a robot's going to take
it and many accounting jobs I think are
at risk when you go to that website or
just when you think about it logically
and you understand the technology and
any job that has maybe it's quite
Technical and it doesn't require a lot
of human interaction they're the kinds
of jobs which are going to be at risk so
some in the accounting profession are
certainly like that so I think where
Finance and Accounting professionals
should be focusing is on that people
interaction and on that more the types
of things which technology can't um make
redundant like your ability to think
strategically and to be insightful and
bring lots of insights to your clients
and to know different aspects of
accounting you know robots are pretty
good at doing one thing but not many
things if you can kind of pull it all
together and to deliver great insights
for your clients to become a trusted
advisor be great at relationship
building to be a thought leader and be a
bit creative about what the trends are
in accounting and so you can bring those
types of insights and be an influence
and I think just building that broader
business Acumen and general management
capabilities across other disciplines I
think Finance and Accounting are just
such a valuable kind of foundational
skill set absolutely and it'll probably
be that way for some time but what's
going to really make you valuable in
future is these broader skills and how
you sort of top that up and and and
bring other things on top of that
particularly around you know your people
interactions
and Leadership and influence and that
type of thing that's where I'd be
focusing on thanks you just to summarize
some of the points that you made was
first of all protect your time say no to
time thieves and the successful CEOs
that you have worked with are very good
at doing that and you say time is a set
of priorities each day so we have to
make the right choices each day I really
liked that and then if you're talking to
your manager and it's something that you
do need permission for you need to
really think about the value proposition
for them so that you can maximize your
chances of getting the green
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