Divine Renovation Interview with Fr James Mallon Part 5

Summary

In this session, Peter Herbeck from Renewal Ministries discusses 'Divine Renovation' with Father James Mallon, exploring the Holy Spirit's role in transforming parishes from maintenance to mission. They emphasize the necessity of a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit and experiential faith to empower church growth. The conversation touches on overcoming obstacles like clericalism and pelagianism, and the importance of embracing the Holy Spirit for effective evangelization. Resources and upcoming events related to the book are also mentioned.

Takeaways

• 📚 Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon discuss the importance of 'Divine Renovation', a book by Father Mallon that aims to shift parishes from maintenance to mission.
• 🔥 The Holy Spirit is identified as the driving force behind the mission of the church, essential for the realization of the ideas discussed in the book.
• 🌪️ The concept of a 'New Pentecost' is introduced, signifying a renewed outpouring of the Holy Spirit to empower the church for the new evangelization.
• 👤 The necessity for a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit is emphasized, as many Catholics believe in but do not have a personal connection with the Holy Spirit.
• 🙏 There is a call for everyone to have an experiential faith, to not only know about the Holy Spirit but to experience its power in their lives.
• 🔑 The sacraments, particularly confirmation, are highlighted as moments of receiving the Holy Spirit, but there is a challenge to ensure these are accompanied by a transformative experience.
• 🏆 Pope John Paul II is quoted, emphasizing the need for the Holy Spirit to create movement within the church and the lives of believers.
• 🌟 The Holy Spirit is described as God's love poured out into our hearts, enabling us to cry out 'Abba Father' and know our identity as children of God.
• 🏛️ The church is encouraged to create spaces for the Holy Spirit to work, such as through prayer and spiritual retreats, leading to life-changing encounters.
• 🛑 The script addresses the need to clear out 'junk' or obstacles, such as clericalism and pelagianism, that hinder the work of the Holy Spirit in the church.
• 📈 Pelagianism is critiqued as a heresy that undermines the necessity of God's grace, promoting a culture of minimalism and moralism rather than a life empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Q & A

What is the main topic of the book 'Divine Renovation' by Father James Mallon?

The book 'Divine Renovation' focuses on transforming parishes from a state of maintenance to a mission-driven approach, emphasizing the role of the Holy Spirit in this transformation.

Why is experiencing the Holy Spirit considered essential for the church's mission according to the discussion?

Experiencing the Holy Spirit is essential because it empowers individuals with a personal relationship and a sense of God's power, which is necessary for effective evangelization and missionary discipleship.

What is meant by 'new evangelization' in the context of the discussion?

The 'new evangelization' refers to a renewed effort to spread the Christian faith, which requires a 'new Pentecost' or a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit to empower believers for this mission.

Why is there a need for a 'new Pentecost' according to Ralph Martin?

A 'new Pentecost' is needed because the first wave of evangelization was empowered by the Holy Spirit, and a similar empowerment is necessary for the new evangelization to be effective.

What is the significance of having a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit as discussed in the transcript?

Having a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit is significant because it allows for an experiential faith and a deeper understanding of God's power, which is crucial for living out one's faith and being an effective missionary disciple.

Why do some Catholics struggle with developing a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit?

Some Catholics struggle with this because the Holy Spirit can seem abstract or 'weird' to relate to personally, especially when compared to the more relatable figures of God the Father and Jesus Christ.

What is the importance of the sacraments in receiving the Holy Spirit according to Catholic theology?

Sacraments such as Baptism and Confirmation are seen as channels through which the Holy Spirit is received, but the discussion points out the need for these sacraments to be accompanied by a tangible, transformative experience of God's power.

What did Father James Mallon mean by 'junk' in the context of Chapter Four of 'Divine Renovation'?

The 'junk' refers to obstacles such as clericalism and pelagianism that hinder the working of the Holy Spirit and prevent individuals and the church from moving forward in their mission.

What is the heresy of pelagianism and how does it relate to the church's evangelization efforts?

Pelagianism is a heresy that denies the need for God's grace, suggesting that humans can achieve salvation through their own efforts. This mindset can undermine evangelization by reducing Christianity to moralism and minimizing the transformative power of God's grace.

How can parishes and communities foster an encounter with the Holy Spirit according to the transcript?

Communities can foster such encounters by creating spaces for the Holy Spirit to work, such as through prayer meetings, retreats, and by intentionally calling upon the Holy Spirit in various gatherings, as exemplified by the Alpha experience.

What is the role of the Holy Spirit in making missionary disciples as discussed in the transcript?

The Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in making missionary disciples by empowering individuals with divine love and grace, enabling them to live out their baptismal and confirmation promises and to share the Gospel with others effectively.

Outlines

00:00

🌟 Empowering the Church through the Holy Spirit

In this segment, Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon discuss the critical role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the church, as outlined in the book 'Divine Renovation'. They emphasize the necessity of a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit, which is often overlooked in favor of relationships with God the Father and Jesus Christ. The speakers highlight the importance of experiential faith and the church's need for a 'new Pentecost' to empower its members for the mission of evangelization. They also address common misconceptions and barriers to embracing the Holy Spirit's power, such as the reduction of the Holy Spirit to mere theory and the reluctance to engage in experiential worship. The conversation underscores the transformative potential of the Holy Spirit in the lives of individuals and the church as a whole.

05:01

🚀 The Holy Spirit: Catalyst for Missionary Discipleship

This paragraph delves into the concept of creating missionary disciples through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Pope Benedict XVI's perspective is cited, emphasizing that effective missionary work requires being 'clothed with power from on high'. The speakers discuss the transformative experience of the Holy Spirit as a catalyst for movement within the church and individuals' lives. They mention 'Lumen Gentium' 36, which speaks to the shared power to conquer sin and spread the gospel. The Alpha experience is highlighted as a practical example of facilitating such encounters with the Holy Spirit, leading to life-changing conversions. The importance of repeatedly invoking the Holy Spirit in various church gatherings is also stressed, as is the recognition that the Holy Spirit is essential for reaching the unchurched and non-Christians in a post-modern society that seeks experiential validation of faith.

10:05

🛠 Clearing Obstacles to the Holy Spirit's Work

The discussion in this paragraph focuses on identifying and addressing theological and practical obstacles that hinder the Holy Spirit's work within the church and individual believers. The concept of 'clericalism' and 'Pelagianism' or 'neo-Pelagianism' are examined as examples of such obstacles. Pelagianism, an early church heresy denying original sin and the necessity of divine grace, is contrasted with the Catholic belief in the transformative power of God's grace through Jesus Christ. The speakers argue that misunderstandings about grace can lead to a culture of minimalism within the church, where the focus shifts from the necessity of God's grace to a moralistic approach to faith. This can undermine the church's evangelizing mission and the believer's experience of a new life in the Holy Spirit, which is central to the Christian faith.

15:08

📚 Resources and Prayer for Divine Renovation

The final paragraph provides information on how to obtain Father James Mallon's book 'Divine Renovation' and engage with the resources and community associated with its message. It mentions the book's popularity, with multiple printings and translations available, and the existence of a reader's guide and a forthcoming workbook for practical implementation. Details about a conference and a website, divinerenovation.net, are provided for those interested in further exploration of the book's themes. The paragraph concludes with a prayer for the listeners, invoking the Holy Spirit to inspire a passion for change and a renewal of the church, guided by hope and the recognition of God's life-giving power.

Keywords

💡Divine Renovation

Divine Renovation is the title of the book authored by Father James Mallon, which serves as the central theme of the video. It refers to the transformation of a parish from a state of maintenance to one of mission, emphasizing the importance of the Holy Spirit in driving this change. The book is described as timely and significant in the life of the church, indicating its relevance to the current spiritual climate.

💡Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit is a central concept in the Christian faith, representing the third person of the Holy Trinity. In the video, the Holy Spirit is portrayed as the driving force behind the new evangelization and the transformation of parishes. It is essential for the realization of the mission of the church, as it empowers believers to be witnesses of Christ's teachings.

💡New Evangelization

The term 'New Evangelization' refers to the renewed effort by the Catholic Church to spread the Gospel in contemporary society. In the video, it is mentioned in the context of the need for a 'New Pentecost,' suggesting a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit to empower this endeavor. It is tied to the idea of experiential faith and the necessity of a personal encounter with the Holy Spirit.

💡Experiential Faith

Experiential faith is the concept of having a personal, lived experience of God's presence and power, rather than just an intellectual belief. The video emphasizes the importance of this type of faith for the new evangelization, as it leads to a deeper connection with God and a more effective witness to others.

💡Personal Relationship

The script discusses the importance of having a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit, which is often overlooked in favor of relationships with God the Father and Jesus Christ. This personal relationship is crucial for experiencing the Holy Spirit's power and is a key aspect of the transformation process described in the video.

💡Pentecost

Pentecost is a Christian feast day commemorating the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles. In the video, it is used metaphorically to refer to a 'New Pentecost,' indicating a renewed outpouring of the Holy Spirit's power necessary for the new evangelization. It is also tied to the idea of a personal encounter with the Holy Spirit.

💡Missionary Disciples

Missionary disciples are believers who are actively engaged in sharing their faith and making disciples of others. The video discusses the importance of creating such disciples for the church's mission and how the Holy Spirit empowers individuals for this role.

💡Post-Modern Society

The term 'post-modern society' is used in the video to describe the current cultural context, where people are less concerned with the truth of a belief system and more with its practical benefits. This understanding is crucial for the church's approach to evangelization, as it emphasizes the need for an experiential encounter with God's power.

💡Sacramental Theology

Sacramental theology is the study of the sacraments in Christian theology. The video touches on this concept when discussing the Holy Spirit's role in the sacraments, emphasizing the need for a deeper, transformative experience beyond the mere reception of the sacraments.

💡Pelagianism

Pelagianism is a heresy that denies the necessity of divine grace for salvation, suggesting that humans can achieve righteousness through their own efforts. The video mentions this as an obstacle to the Holy Spirit's work, as it undermines the need for God's grace and the transformative power of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers.

💡Minimalism

In the context of the video, minimalism refers to the tendency to do the bare minimum in one's faith practice, often stemming from a Pelagian mindset. This approach is contrasted with the transformative, grace-filled life that the Holy Spirit enables, which is characterized by active participation and a deeper commitment to the mission of the church.

Highlights

Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon discuss the importance of the Holy Spirit in the life of the church and the concept of 'Divine Renovation'.

The necessity of a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit for the realization of a parish's mission.

The historical context of the term 'Holy Ghost' and its transition to 'Holy Spirit', affecting how people relate to the Holy Spirit.

The challenge of experiencing the Holy Spirit's power in a personal way, as opposed to a purely intellectual understanding.

The role of the Holy Spirit in the new evangelization and the need for a 'new Pentecost' to empower it.

The importance of experiential faith and the Holy Spirit's power in making missionary disciples.

The contrast between the sacramental reception of the Holy Spirit and the lack of a subsequent transformative experience.

The theological abstractions that may hinder the recognition of the Holy Spirit's power in daily life.

The transformative effect of the Holy Spirit's power on individuals and communities, as seen in youth ministry experiences.

The need to move beyond theoretical knowledge to a lived experience of the Holy Spirit's power.

The significance of the Holy Spirit in creating movement within the church and the role of personal experiences in this process.

The importance of ongoing encounters with the Holy Spirit's power for the vitality of the Christian faith.

The role of the Holy Spirit in overcoming obstacles within the church and personal lives.

The impact of the Holy Spirit on fostering a culture of holiness and mission within the church.

The practical steps taken by parishes to facilitate encounters with the Holy Spirit, such as retreats and prayer sessions.

The importance of recognizing and addressing clericalism and pelagianism as obstacles to the Holy Spirit's work.

The theological implications of pelagianism and its practical effects on the church's evangelization efforts.

The need for a proper understanding of grace and original sin to effectively share the Gospel.

The importance of the Holy Spirit in creating a new creation in believers, beyond moral striving.

The upcoming Divine Renovation conference and resources available for those interested in the discussed topics.

A closing prayer for the listeners, invoking the Holy Spirit's grace for their personal and communal renewal.

Transcripts

welcome friends i'm Peter Herbeck from renewal  ministries and we're in session five with father  

James Mallon the author of I think a very  important book and a timely book in the  

life of the church it's called divine renovation  bringing your parish from maintenance to mission  

and session five is about the engine that  drives it all the holy spirit and how we can  

live in the holy how it's essential to live in  the holy spirit for any of this stuff that you've  

talked about to become a reality well we speak  about the new evangelization and i've heard ralph  

martin say many times you know in order to have a  new evangelization we need a new pentecost because  

the first wave evangelization was was it came as  a result of of the empowering by the holy spirit  

and it's number nine in my list of ten values  that the churches that are actually make producing  

missionary disciples uh rely on one of their  values is for everyone to have an experience  

of the power of the holy spirit this is  important language everyone to have an  

experience we're talking about experiential faith  and for it to be an experience of god's power  

i think you know a lot of catholics uh they  certainly you say you believe in the holy spirit  

they say of course i believe in the holy spirit  but but often um a couple of things happen there  

is there's not a personal relationship with the  holy spirit people have a sense of relationship  

with god the father they can relate to father  image of course with with jesus even people  

have a personal encounter with jesus that comes to  the holy spirit it's a bit weird you know because  

i don't know if you remember i remember before  the holy spirit had had a name change yeah it  

was called holy ghost right it was like how do  you experience how do you have a relationship  

with the holy ghost but yeah but we're not just  called to have a personal relationship god we're  

called to have a tri-personal relationship  with god so that's number one people often  

don't have any kind of relationship with the holy  spirit they often never pray to the holy spirit  

and so that's that's an obstacle we have to  overcome secondly we we've almost reduced the  

holy spirit i believe in our theology and  spirituality as almost a theory we we know  

intellectually that we've received the holy spirit  when we were baptized we received the holy spirit  

through the sacraments which i totally believe we  receive the holy spirit confirmation but how is it  

and i've seen hundreds and hundreds of teenagers  some of them gum chewing eye rolling teenagers  

receiving the holy spirit and you never  see them again you never see them again  

and look totally bored out of their minds like  this is not an experience of power this is not  

what has been described in the new testament now  granted the sacraments you don't have to have an  

accompanying subjective experience to know that  they're valid but then we have to face the issue  

in our sacramental theology is what is a valid  sacrament if there's no fruitfulness these are

theological categories these are ontological you  know uh you know medieval um scholastic categories  

of thought that that really are abstractions like  in the end if if a sacrament isn't changing your  

life what are we oh this is almost heretical who  cares if it's valid he's making no difference you  

know and so what what does the new testament say  jesus said before he ascended to the father stay  

in the city until you are clothed with power from  on high with power and i think this is the thing  

is the need for people to experience the holy  spirit as as the experience of power we're often  

shy in the church today of of of experiential  faith we're we're very safe in our heads  

uh we're very much children of the enlightenment  we're very much in love with the idea of a reality  

uh rather than experiencing the reality itself  and and i think when it comes to the holy spirit  

we're sometimes fearful uh you know the holy  spirit that's what those crazy people do on  

tuesday nights in the church basement they're  into that stuff we're we don't do that stuff  

and so there's this shying away of an experience  of power and i think that we block often here's  

my conviction is that often times and i know this  because of my own life peter i i i live uh almost  

it's to some degree a shallow version of the  christian faith because it's the times when i've  

experienced god's power through the holy spirit  that it's it's almost revealed to me is how much  

most of the time i'm lacking that a power that's  available to me that i because i just accepted is  

is is being normative to live this way normative  to live with a little tiny experience of power but  

when you experience power you experience power  you never forget yeah i think one of the one of  

the things pope john paul ii said that touch me  he always points back to acts chapter 1 verse 8.  

that's building on what you're talking about  being clothed with power here it is just before  

jesus ascends to heaven he says you know you  receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you  

and you will be my witnesses he said i'm the  one who will baptize you with my spirit and  

pope benedict said here's the summit of jesus's  mission jesus came down should we be his witnesses  

how can we make missionary disciples i mean what  is making it means to make if they have not been  

clothed with power from on high it ain't going to  work this is why we can't be afraid of this stuff  

we've got to step out of our boxes and say lord  we're willing to trust that that this is beyond  

uh strategy this is beyond good ideas and good  programs and and staying in our safe limitations  

we've got to call down and call upon the power of  the holy spirit here's an important point um again  

pope john paul ii he said in the scripture the  power that the holy spirit gives creates movement  

and it's a good question say am i moving where  am i moving toward lumigentium 36 talks about  

our king the king has given us a share in his  power to conquer sin in us and to share the  

gospel with others holiness and mission he's given  us power to move into the very thing we're called  

love god love neighbor make disciples some people  have said you know and so it without it without  

that encounter with power we're not going to go  there because of the flesh because of the world  

because the stuff that holds us back and obstacles  within the church you know you mentioned you mean  

but the power is that you know who's the  spirit is god's love poured out to our heart  

into our hearts so that our spirits cry out  abba father and this is when when truly we  

know who we are as sons and daughters of god  when we have that experience of god's love  

being poured into our hearts now how do we do that  concretely this is one of the great things about  

the alpha experience is at the heart about 60 of  the way through the the course people go on a holy  

spirit uh weekend away and usually it's common  for 60 to 70 percent of the participants to go  

and this these days culminate in  an experience of being prayed over  

to experience the power of god and guess what the  holy spirit touches people people have their lives  

changed it's unbelievable yeah and we see it again  and again and we don't we just have to create the  

space and step back the holy spirit touches hearts  and people are converted and it's an experience of  

god's power and here's the other thing we do at  the parish is we go back to that again and again  

we constantly call on the holy spirit whether  it's at staff meetings or ministry meetings or  

when we bring our ministry leaders together  for those leadership summits we finish every  

single session laying on hands and calling  on the holy spirit to come in power because  

the experience of being filled with  the holy spirit that experiential thing  

is something of course that goes away and my own  need in my own life is i'm so weak and broken that  

i need that as often as i can because then i know  that it's it's it's not me that's that's working  

that there's a power grip greater than me it  it worked and so seeking that experience but  

we're often in the church we're shy of these  experiences but here's one one final thing  

if we're going to reach the unchurched the  the fallen away the non-christians you see  

in the past in a kind of a more modern uh mindset  uh the primary question for people was maybe is  

it true but in a post-modern society the primary  question that people are asking is not is it true  

so when we lead as the church with the truth the  truth the truth the truth now i'm all about the  

truth but that's not the question people the 90 of  people are not asking that question they're asking  

does it will it work for me i mean look at all  the weird new age stuff people are into they're  

looking for experience that will make a difference  in their life that's the primary question they're  

asking does it work and so as a tool again to  reach the young church to bring them to conversion  

and to living the life of a missionary decide but  that experience of god's power is key once they  

have that then they begin to be interested in the  truth uh but that's that's that's very good and i  

think one of the reasons why alpha and maybe other  instruments like it are so effective is they speak  

to a post-christian culture right a post-modern  culture they don't have any expectation there's an  

introduction to the person of jesus but there's  a conviction and the knowledge the expectation  

that the holy spirit is its primary mission is to  reveal to every human heart the person of jesus  

christ yes and so you present the kerygma you  present the basic gospel message and it's not  

something by my willpower that i'm going to make  happen that's what paul said when my gospel came  

to you i came in fear and trembling but when  my gospel came to you it came to you in power  

so that you knew that your faith was based on the  power of the holy spirit and not on somebody's  

intelligence that's exactly what sin paul says  and in the early church of course people people  

came to christ and then were were filled  with the holy spirit they had this experience  

of power and this is the thing we have great plans  great theology uh great statements and and in the  

end often one of the things that's lacking is  this experience of god's power the experience  

of the holy spirit second pope benedict at one  point said what the church needs now are witnesses  

who have been touched intimately and personally  by the power of the holy spirit and they know  

it exactly and they know it exactly that that's  a gigantic game changer the holy spirit is the  

game changer really jesus said i will send him he  will speak to you imagine having a parish where  

where sixty seventy percent of your people in  your parish have been taught intimately touched  

by the power of the holy spirit and they know it  you know my in my parish christ the king and are  

not perfect but there's that very experience i  mean that people know i mean we had almost 90  

of the people come to church every weekend but  people are engaged in raising their families  

they know they're on a mission it's because of  the role of the power of the holy spirit and how  

our our parishes and the communities around help  lead people into an encounter with the lord as a  

process a key process of discipleship now we've  got a few minutes left and there's a chapter in  

here i found very interesting it's a little bit  of a theological chapter chapter four he said  

clearing out the junk and that there's junk  that sometimes that we're holding on to that  

becomes an obstacle to the working of the holy  spirit which ends up stagnating us and being  

able to move forward can you talk about that a  little bit we talked about the first one that  

i mentioned that was clericalism and the second  one in that chapter is pelagianism or what i've  

called neoplagianism meaning a reemergence of  an old idea is there's nothing new under the sun  

and pelagianism was a heresy in the early church  in the fourth and fifth centuries later after that  

there was what was called semi-pelagianism but  then the person who combated this way of thinking  

the most was saint augustine and the essential  point of pelagianism was basically was the denial  

of original sin basically that jesus is a savior  to us in the sense that he shows us how to love  

he models for us love and that example is enough  uh we don't essentially need god's grace but the  

truth is the catholic position is no no jesus  yes he models love for us but he is the one  

it work in us through grace who enables us to do  what needs to be done he doesn't just show us how  

to do it he does it in us and through us through  through his grace and this is a key point because  

it reveals to us our need that by ourselves  separate from god's grace we cannot please god  

like the default position is that we're outside  of god's grace we need salvation and and  

and the whole thing is how can you expect a  church to evangelize which means to spread the  

good news if deep down we don't believe there's  any good news because if there's no bad news there  

can't be good news if i say to you congratulations  you're you're cancer-free you're going to say well  

i never had cancer you you you're not  going to be excited by this news but if you  

thought you had two months to live you're going to  be very excited you're going to pick up the phone  

and start telling people and so if if we don't  have a proper understanding of the bad news we  

can't we're never going to be excited about the  good news we're never going to share the good news  

we're not going to feel any uh compulsion to to to  share the good news with others because we don't  

believe they've got cancer either and also i think  what results from from pelagianism is is a culture  

of minimalism we talked about culture in many  of our churches the culture the predominant norm  

is minimalism tell me the bare minimum remember  there was used to be in catechism uh circles like  

question about how much of the mass can  i miss and have it still count right you  

know it's like this bare minimum like and and  why is that because well when you go shopping  

you look for the lowest price if you're buying  it if you're if you're earning it you look for  

them for the most economical way to do it and so  pelagianism breeds a culture of minimalism it also  

takes away the ability of the church to evangelize  and if you talk about the experience of the holy  

spirit who needs the holy spirit who needs  a spirit of power if we can do it by our own  

power right there's that whole willpower thing  and then christianity gets reduced to a kind of  

moralism a moral striving and christianity is  a new life in the holy spirit it's living a new  

way of life a new power a new capacity is given to  us we can't we can't call our people to something  

that and expect them to do it by virtue of just  moral striving we have to lead them into a full  

encounter of their baptismal and confirmation  graces that power to live a new way sometimes it  

said you know like you know be the best version  of yourself you know jesus didn't come to me  

to make us a better version of ourselves  he came to make us a new creation  

yeah that's the language of the new testament  a new creation i will put a new heart in you  

and uh and this is this is through the power of  god's spirit but the the pelagian thing is very  

present in our church it's a it's a heresy in our  church but it's rife in terms of practically how  

people are relating to the life yeah yeah or even  you'll hear people say well if anyone deserves to  

get into heaven she does because she did this  well wait a minute i thought we got into heaven  

by by living a life of faith and love through  through the grace and power of christ this is  

you know we go about things with with a pelagian  mindset and we need to identify that and really uh  

embrace the reality of grace uh otherwise it will  just be a lovely tune played on the bagpipes we  

just have a couple of minutes one thing i'd like  you to do father is tell people how can they get  

the book and be in touch with what you're doing  because i know people are calling you can't go  

out everywhere help people understand how they  can connect and then i'd like you to close  

us with a prayer for the grace of the holy  spirit for all those who are listening  

very grateful for what's happening the book i  think it's in in the united states in its sixth or  

seventh printing after a year which is amazing uh  spanish translation is out uh french translation  

is coming uh there's a reader's guide that's been  published by 23rd publications you can get there  

on their website and also we have a website  divinerenovation.net uh that includes podcasts  

about for now once a month we're putting up a new  podcast on different aspects of what we talk about  

in the book also we're having a conference next  june june 13th and 14th the website will be up uh  

in the next couple of months possibly  the time you you're watching this  

and uh check that out we'd love for you to join  us we get people coming from all over the place  

and also there's a workbook in the works  so we're working with a number of people  

uh the folks at amazing parish to create a  workbook that is more of a how-to because  

this is more a theology and model to inspire and  not so much a how-to it's a great starting point  

for priests and religious particular people  who have some theological formation in the  

background but not limited to that but it gives  them something to put a situate this whole thing  

so father you know everybody is listening wants  to move their parish from maintenance to mission  

and fundamentally it's a work of god through  us and i wonder if you could just close us  

with a prayer absolutely the outpouring of the  holy spirit of grace of the new pentecost in  

the lives of our listeners and the father and  son holy spirit i mean lord god we thank you  

for the tools of communication and for the men and  women who are watching this video right now lord  

send your holy spirit upon them help them to be in  touch with that holy discontent lord and inflame  

that discontent into a passion for change a  passion that is built on hope true hope lord that  

you are the lord the giver of life you are the one  who is able to bring forth life you are the source  

of renewal in in in your church bless these  men and women uh guide them help them to have  

to have good teams around them and help them to go  go forth with boldness uh with confidence in you  

uh to work to do everything they can  to see your church renewed bless them  

we pray through christ our lord amen great  being with you father thanks thanks peter