Divine Renovation: An Interview with Fr Mallon Part 4

Summary

In this insightful session, Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon delve into the significance of transforming church culture for effective mission. They emphasize that without a healthy, life-giving culture, even the best strategies and programs fail. The duo discusses the importance of values, such as prioritizing the weekend experience, quality music, impactful homilies, and genuine hospitality, as foundational to a church's health and growth. They also underscore the necessity of small communities, strength-based ministry, and the Holy Spirit's role in cultural transformation, aiming to cultivate missionary disciples.

Takeaways

• 🌟 Leadership is fundamentally about leading change, and this change is the transformation of culture within a parish.
• 🛠 The success of any program or initiative in a parish is heavily dependent on the underlying culture; without a healthy culture, even the best programs will fail.
• 📚 Culture is revealed by what is valued, celebrated, and rewarded, and it is essential to have a brutally honest assessment of the current culture in a parish.
• 🎼 The importance of music and hymns in the church service is emphasized, with a call for quality and relevance to connect with the congregation.
• 🤝 Hospitality is key to making parishioners and visitors feel welcome and included, which is a collective responsibility of the whole community.
• 📝 Homilies should aim for transformation rather than just imparting information, leading people to a place where they feel compelled to act on their faith.
• 👥 Building meaningful communities is essential for fostering a sense of belonging, which is a prerequisite for belief and changed behavior.
• 💼 Strength-based ministry involves starting with the individual's gifts and passions, rather than filling needs with whoever is available.
• 🔢 Small groups are vital for personal growth and a sense of community, and they should be a normal part of parish life, not just an activity for a few.
• 🌪 The experience of the Holy Spirit is crucial for a vibrant and dynamic church, and the Holy Spirit's role will be discussed in more depth in a future session.
• 🚪 Becoming an inviting church is not just about having open doors but also about creating an environment that is welcoming and life-giving to all who enter.

Q & A

What is the main focus of the conversation between Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon?

The main focus of the conversation is transforming the culture within a parish, emphasizing the importance of a healthy, life-giving culture for the success of any church initiative.

Why is culture considered more important than strategy or programs in church renewal according to the speakers?

Culture is considered more important because it underpins all initiatives; without a healthy culture, even the best programs and strategies can fail, as culture can 'eat strategy for breakfast'.

What does Peter Drucker's quote about culture imply for church leadership?

The quote implies that a church's culture can undermine or even negate the efforts of its leadership if it is not aligned with the church's mission and values.

How does Father James Mallon define culture in the context of a parish?

Culture is defined as the values that are presumed, celebrated, and rewarded within the parish, reflecting the real values demonstrated through behavior rather than just aspirational values.

What is the significance of the 'three H's' mentioned in the script?

The 'three H's' refers to hymns, homilies, and hospitality, which are considered key values that, when prioritized, can significantly improve the weekend experience in a parish.

Why is the quality of music during worship considered important in the script?

The quality of music is important because it can enhance the worship experience, connect with the culture, and has the power to lift spirits and deepen the spiritual connection of the congregation.

What does Pope Francis say about the challenge of homilies in the church?

Pope Francis acknowledges that priests often struggle with preparing homilies and that the congregation suffers from having to listen to them, indicating a need for improvement in the preaching quality.

What is the role of hospitality in creating a welcoming church environment according to the script?

Hospitality plays a crucial role in making a church environment welcoming by ensuring that the entire community takes responsibility for making visitors and non-churchgoers feel included and valued.

How does Father James Mallon suggest using the 'belong, believe, behave' model in church communities?

He suggests that the church should focus on building trust and relationships to create a sense of belonging, which will naturally lead to people believing and then changing their behaviors in line with the church's values.

What is the importance of small groups in the context of the script?

Small groups are important for fostering a sense of belonging, providing opportunities for catechesis and learning, and are essential for cultural transformation within a parish.

Why is it essential for a church to become an inviting church according to the speakers?

Becoming an inviting church is essential because it allows the congregation to share their excitement and love for their community with others, naturally leading to growth and the making of missionary disciples.

What is the final point made about the role of the Holy Spirit in the transformation of church culture?

The final point emphasizes the importance of the Holy Spirit in guiding and empowering the transformation process, with the next session focusing on the role of the Holy Spirit in more depth.

Outlines

00:00

🌟 Transforming Church Culture for Mission

In this first paragraph, Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon discuss the critical role of culture in church transformation. They emphasize that leadership is about leading change, which involves transforming the culture rather than just implementing the best practices or programs. Culture is defined by values, behaviors, and rewards, and it can either support or undermine initiatives. The conversation highlights the importance of a healthy, life-giving culture for a parish to thrive. They also touch on the idea that culture is revealed through everyday conversations and that the ultimate goal is to create a culture that supports the vision of making missionary disciples.

05:02

🎤 Prioritizing the Weekend Experience

The second paragraph focuses on the importance of prioritizing the weekend experience in church services. The speakers share their insights on how the weekend is the most crucial time for ministry, as it is when the majority of the congregation is present. They advocate for giving the best to the weekend, including the best music, homilies, and hospitality. The paragraph discusses the significance of hymns and contemporary music in engaging the congregation, the role of homilies in delivering transformative messages, and the necessity of a warm and welcoming environment. The emphasis is on creating an infrastructure that supports an exceptional weekend experience.

10:04

🤝 Building a Belonging and Belief Community

In the third paragraph, the conversation shifts to the importance of community and the 'belong, believe, behave' model. The speakers argue that people must feel a sense of belonging before they can believe and change their behavior. They discuss the need for meaningful communities where individuals are known, loved, and cared for. The paragraph also covers the significance of clear expectations for parishioners, strength-based ministry that leverages individuals' gifts and passions, and the formation of small groups to foster growth and a sense of belonging. The speakers highlight the importance of being intentional about creating an inviting church that is welcoming to strangers and non-believers.

15:05

🌱 Cultivating a Healthy and Growth-Oriented Church Culture

The final paragraph wraps up the discussion by emphasizing the importance of a healthy church culture that leads to growth. The speakers reflect on their experiences in transforming churches of different sizes and stress that the size of the church does not determine its health. They outline ten values that are essential for a vibrant and dynamic church that produces missionary disciples. These values include prioritizing the weekend, meaningful community, clear expectations, strength-based ministry, small group formation, and becoming an inviting church. The paragraph concludes with a preview of the next session, which will delve into the role of the Holy Spirit in church transformation.

Keywords

💡Transformation

Transformation refers to a profound change in form, appearance, or character. In the context of the video, it is about the shift from a maintenance culture to a mission-driven one within a parish setting. The script emphasizes that leadership is about leading change, and this change is the transformation of culture, which is vital for church renewal.

💡Culture

Culture, in this script, is defined as the collective values, behaviors, and norms that shape the environment of a parish. It is what is celebrated, tolerated, and rewarded. The video highlights that a healthy, life-giving culture is crucial for the success of any initiative within a parish, as an unhealthy culture can undermine even the best strategies and programs.

💡Leadership

Leadership is presented as the capacity to guide, influence, and inspire others towards achieving a common goal. In the video, leadership is intrinsically linked to leading change, specifically the transformation of culture within a parish. It underscores the importance of leaders in shaping and maintaining a culture that supports the mission of the church.

💡Parish

A parish, in the context of the video, refers to a local church community under the jurisdiction of a pastor. The script discusses the transformation of parish culture from being maintenance-focused to being mission-oriented, emphasizing the importance of a healthy culture for the growth and vitality of the parish.

💡Initiative

Initiative in the video script denotes new programs or actions intended to solve a problem or improve a situation. It is mentioned that without addressing cultural issues, even the best initiatives can fail, as culture can have a profound impact on the success or failure of these efforts.

💡Values

Values are the principles and standards that guide behavior and decision-making. The script discusses how a parish's culture is revealed by its values, which are the real, practiced values rather than just aspirational ones. It suggests examining behavior for a brutally honest assessment of the existing culture.

💡Missionary Disciples

Missionary disciples are followers of Christ who are actively engaged in spreading the Gospel and making more disciples. The video emphasizes that the ultimate goal of a transformed culture is to produce missionary disciples, who are the 'fruit' that the church is called to bear.

💡Hospitality

Hospitality, as mentioned in the script, is the act of welcoming and treating guests or strangers with warmth and friendliness. It is one of the 'three H's' (hymns, homilies, and hospitality) that contribute to a positive weekend experience in a parish. The script suggests that genuine hospitality is a reflection of a parish's culture and values.

💡Homilies

Homilies are the sermons or speeches given by priests or ministers during religious services. The video script discusses the importance of homilies in conveying the Gospel message and inspiring transformation. It emphasizes the need for homilies to be more than just informational but transformative, leading to a call to action.

💡Hymns

Hymns are songs of praise to God or religious themes typically used in worship. In the script, hymns are highlighted as a key part of the worship experience, with the assertion that singing enhances prayer. The discussion includes the importance of quality music that is both contemporary and traditional in engaging the congregation.

💡Small Groups

Small groups, as discussed in the video, are an essential part of fostering a sense of belonging and community within a parish. They are used for adult catechesis and are seen as a key strategy for personal growth and learning. The script mentions that small groups are integral to creating a culture of missionary discipleship.

💡Invitational Church

An 'inviting church' is one that actively encourages and facilitates its members to invite others to participate in its activities and services. The script emphasizes the importance of being intentional about inviting others and creating an environment that is welcoming and life-giving for visitors and new members.

Highlights

Leadership is about leading change and transforming culture is key for church renewal.

Having the best people, practices, and programs won't make a difference without a healthy, life-giving culture.

Culture is what we presume, celebrate, tolerate, and reward - it's revealed by our values and behaviors.

Values are the real, demonstrated priorities, not just the aspirational ones.

Culture is revealed by the conversations people have around the water cooler.

The goal is to make missionary disciples, which requires a healthy culture to bear fruit.

Healthy churches grow and bear fruit, while unhealthy ones struggle regardless of size.

The photocopier model of church emphasizes evangelizing and sending people on mission.

Churches that prioritize the weekend and focus on quality music, homilies, and hospitality can transform culture.

Preaching should aim for transformation, not just information transfer.

Hospitality is the responsibility of the whole community, not just a few welcoming individuals.

Meaningful communities that build trust and relationships are essential for belonging and growth.

Clear expectations for worship, growth, connection, service, and giving are important for a healthy church.

Strength-based ministry that starts with a person's gifts and passions leads to more effective service.

Small groups are key for catechesis, learning, and creating a sense of belonging.

The Holy Spirit plays an essential role in transformation and the life of the church.

Becoming an inviting church is crucial for growth and requires intentional effort.

Invitation is a calling from God, but the results are up to Him, not us.

Investing in relationships and inviting people from a place of confidence creates a life-giving experience.

Embracing these values leads to a healthy culture that grows and makes missionary disciples.

Transcripts

hi I'm Peter Herbeck I'm here again with father James Mallon the author of divine

renovation bringing your parish from maintenance to Mission this is session

four and we're talking about transforming culture we've talked a

little bit about it in previous sessions but we did dig deeper because it's key

well I said that leadership means leading change and the change is nothing

short than the transformation of culture we often in in church renewal circles

will talk about best practices best programs best tools you know I get this

program that's a better program than this program but point is that you can

have the best people the best practice the best program but if you don't

address the cultural issue if you don't have a healthy life giving culture and

your parish it will kill every single initiative every other effort as Peter

Drucker says a culture eats strategy for breakfast yeah it does yeah will undo

everything and and what is culture again a culture is are the things we presume

they're there they're the things we celebrate we tolerate the things that we

reward and culture is composed of values it's it's it's shown by by what we value

and again these are real values not aspirational values again examine your

behavior and have a brutally honest assessment of what your culture is I

recently heard something say that you know culture is revealed by the

conversations you have around the water cooler let me just tell me a quick story

in the past year I went I don't know I went to a talk to a group of chaplains

and at the at the social that evening the conversation was all on rank and

status and medals and promotions and uniforms and in blah blah blah during

the break I mean during the sessions they were all talking about the stuff we

were talking about I think of that experience then I think of being in in

London for the Leadership Conference of the Holy Trinity bubs only Leadership

Conference and back in the hotel that night we went to the to the pop and

there was a bunch of Catholics non Catholics but pastors sitting around and

we had the most incredibly exciting conversation on leadership how to win

people for Gigli this is the this is where the culture

was revealed around the the watercooler what what are the word of the true

passions yeah that's culture that's the colours

how do those values connect to the vision wells that relate the vision is

again making missionary disciples and missionary disciples are the is the

fruit that were called to bear Jesus said I call you to bear fruit fruit that

will last in fact look at how demanding the Lord is in John's Gospel you know

every branch that does not bear fruit will be removed and every branch that

does bear fruit will be pruned so that it may bring even more fruit you know

like the Lord expects fruit right and so what is the what it's the fruit of a

missionary disciples but fruit is is comes from healthy things healthy trees

bear fruit right healthy soil seeds as long as healthy children grow I mean

you're a father you did you ever sit your children down and solemnly lecture

them to to grow no you kept them healthy and you fed them and they grew all by

themselves and here's the key thing the right values that shape a culture well

will lead a church to health and if it's healthy it will bear the fruit of

missionary disciples the key of olive cultural transformation is health and

and here's the thing that you know people often will perhaps look at our

situation and at least where I come from my parish is a relatively large one

it may not be compared to some of your parishes you know some of your parish or

twice or three times the size of mine but people will say well I'm in a small

country parish I don't have any other thing of one staff we don't have the

number of people sometimes the mistake is that people see these models of a

healthy of a church that is becoming healthy and it's a suburban church and

they say well you're a big suburban Church we can't do those things but

small churches can be healthy large churches can be unhealthy in fact a

small Church the relative health can be obscured because it doesn't look big and

in a big church the relative lack of health can be obscured because even if 2

percent of people are involved and they show up in a Tuesday night

it looks amazing but guess what it's only 2% right Cooper

sad it's not Alfie and so the goal the goal is health and there I really

believe this when I used to give talks I took some time to look at churches

Catholic churches and non Catholic churches who were and a sense doing it

keeping the main thing the main thing I like to call it the the photocopier

model of Church because I said think that the church is like a photocopier is

called - a photocopier brings paper in it processes it and it spits it out to

make a difference in the world and bringing in as evangelizing processing

is the siping you know printing and stapling and sending the paper out is is

is sending the people out a mission when you see parishes that are actually doing

this you say okay what do they have in common

what's important to these parishes not just what do they say is important what

do their actions what they do and how they spend their money show that they

that communicates what they value so what are the values the bells this is a

list that you know looking that I kind of threw through together and and

towards the back of the book there's there's a list of ten and then first one

is is priority to the weekend and really you know a number don't number years

into parish ministry I realized that I was giving the weekend my leftovers the

real work of ministry was what I did for money to Friday it was the funerals it

was the the Bible studies I did and the the wonderful courses that I was

creating and putting on for 10 people it was the one-on-one counseling works

so important but you end up spending 30 percent of your time with 1 percent of

your people and weekends we get 80 percent of her people 80 percent of the

time it's the biggest bang for the buck and I was throwing leftovers at it so

this is a first key principle to say number one are we giving our best the

weekend and also are we even set up our infrastructure in terms of buildings and

mass times to give it the best weekend experience just to clarify something you

said 80 percent of our people we see mount weekend's now most people

listening to say 80 percent of parishioners actually kind of mass at

your church on weekends because the you know the national averages are 20

percent or 22 percent so that's what you mean when I say 80 percent I mean 80

percent of our regulars okay yeah there's people in the community who

belong perhaps but just they never come yeah in terms of the people who come 80%

of them are there and any good and you have them there and they're coming

because they have some hungers number 2 you put hot you said hospitality

internally I see number two three and four are our follow they're connected

intimately to the weekend experience and I call them the three H's hymns homilies

and hospitality and you know something if you even get these first through four

values if you actually put into action the fact that weekends are going to be a

priority that your weekend experience is going to be the absolute best it can be

it will begin to change things hymns music is so key st. Augusta said if you

sing you pray twice and I believe that we owe it to God to ourselves to give it

our best free music to about lifting music I believe that today and in the

church we've got to embrace contemporary music but some people call praise and

worship music there's some amazing stuff being written by matt maher and others

that is very fitting to the to the liturgy it's a part of connecting with

the culture I also believe it's my own conviction and we do this at Saint

Benedict parishes we also celebrate the great treasure trove of sacred music

down through the ages so we have a contemporary contemporary liturgy you

can actually watch on livestream we have our band and then hour later Mass we

have a we have choral music and incense and sometimes can green chants so we

have we have both the commonality is the quality with commitment to quality if I

had to go back and do it again in my first parish instead of having a part

time children's katak Attucks person and this might be controversial I would have

taken that I would have canceled that position and taken that money and

invested it in in in beefing up music yeah and having a really good worship

leader who gets it who understands that it was a gift from your heart it opens

them up and then so the second one is homilies preaching the Pope Francis said

it didn't II never and jelly Guardium that the priests suffer from preparing

homilies and the people suffer from having to listen to them I mean we're

not the one for our great preaching and how often do we hear homilies and it

just doesn't feel or even sound like good news

and it doesn't have to be that way I think even a challenging homily it can

be like good news but I think the key thing is that we as priests we were

changed trained to be theologians and we were

formed in hyper academic environments where we give these theological homilies

but the goal of preaching is not information its transformation yeah you

know and Pentecost said that when people here at Peter preached they were cut to

the heart and what did they say what must we do you know so preaching

must lead people to a place where the hearts are cut and they say what must me

what must we do that's really just intervene here the father console Lamesa

a couple years ago he and I were at a conference together and before the

conference was over he said we don't want to talk to you for a minute so we

came together and he said I just want to share something with you and he said I

always remember that preaching the power to change is in the anointing of the

Holy Spirit he said I tell every priest seek the

anointing of the Holy Spirit have expectation then that the word that the

Holy Spirit gives you for your people is gonna transform hearts is gonna move and

change people any look and he says don't forget that he said that's so important

tell them that so I'm I'm being faithful to father console of Mason I'm telling

him what what he said and I really believe that yeah and I think that the

charisma itself has a special anointing there was a Vatican document couple

years ago Anders Pope Benedict - it said that the charismatic preaching whether

to a funeral or whatever it is about the basic message of salvation through Jesus

Christ his death on the cross and being filled with the Holy Spirit has a

special power of its own so keep preaching preaching that is relevant and

transformative too often we have as we suffer from preaching that is irrelevant

doesn't connect with people's lives and it's merely informational then

Hospitality you know is like it's a key thing in Catholic churches were not

someone that can be pretty I see you know and that doesn't just mean a few

people with nametags that means the whole community taking responsibility

for that and also even from the way liturgy celebrated to presume that

you've got non churchgoers with you you know that's presume it how do people who

don't go to church feel in your church so that's the first for what's number

five I was meaningful we have just a for about four minutes of meaningful

communities number five this is key you know I really believe that today the

church needs to operate out of a belong believe behaved model people people are

not going to believe something unless you build up trust and relation

chip and once they believe it they'll change their behaviors but we need to

begin with belonging and our communities must become real communities where

people are known and loved and cared for not just a bunch of strangers under

under under the roof for one hour and we look at the body language of parishes

yeah for sure and then use them how to do that what that means concretely how

do we well some even sit through alpha because that's the core value of alpha

it's beautiful the more people go through alpha it changes everything

so after that it is clear expectations no matter if their expectations can be

scary for people but most organizations have expectations and I believe that

combining a high degree of welcoming and high expectation is key and that means

we're very clear at Saint Benedict we say that everyone is called to worship

to grow to connect to serve and to give financially we talk about that and you

know I think the Lord has expectations off us and and and I don't think I think

is very much in line with what he calls us to do to speak about expectations

there were seven strength-based ministry this is a boat starting with the person

too often in church should we say this is the need 'let's grab any warm body

and we we at Saint Benedict Parish we tribe strive always to begin with the

person what are your gifting what are your strengths what are your passions

let's find a ministry that will that will allow God to use you to the maximum

rather than the other way around formation of small groups number eight

small groups are key for for growth for experiences of belonging we at Saint

Benedict Parish use small groups four to ten people for adult catechesis this

past spring we had about 70 small groups running in pairs ee different groups yes

well and from four to ten people and then also we have mid-size groups which

are twenty to thirty people and we have eleven of those groups and they are

principally about belonging the small groups are about catechesis and learning

okay so but whatever shape you have they're essential if you want a parish

to move form a new submission you want to change that culture these are

essential because when your parish begins to consider this stuff to be

normal as opposed to be what a couple of weird people do you know that you've

made traction now this one we're gonna touch on more deeply in our final

session together of a number nineties experience of the Holy Spirit absolutely

essential as father can tell Amissah said yeah welcome back to that next

session okay number 10 become an inviting church it

is the key thing if you get numbers 1 to 9

you're not you try stopping people from inviting people to your church because

they're gonna fall in love they're gonna be so excited about what's going on your

church is going to be a place that's going to be welcoming to strangers and

non-believers and non churchgoers and your parish is gonna have multiple

events whether it's alpha or concerts or grief support ministry or parenting

course or or or even Sunday Mass you know because your Sunday Mass will be

maximized to be welcoming and what we're trying to do you know being Invitational

it doesn't happen by itself you have to be intentional one final point on this

though we've got to be clear that God and we're called to invite we're not

responsible for the results and I think that's a key thing because a lot of

people fear well what if the person says no as if that's up to me but no you were

called to invite and leave the rest to the Lord and often it takes for

invitations yeah I remember what you were saying at one point years ago he

talked about investing and inviting like invest in the people that are in your

life that are close to your neighbors your friends your invest in a

relationship love them get to know them and out of that relationship

invite them that's right to the place invite them to a place you're confident

when you take the risk of inviting somebody you know the environment you're

inviting them into is known since in some parishes you just invite the person

the man I say no don't you don't do that because it's not going to be necessarily

know granted God can intervene at any point but you know we want to be sure we

want to be have confidence that it's going to be life-giving it's gonna be a

life-giving experience and I think these 10 values are values that churches that

are alive and dynamic and are making missionary disciples this is the stuff

that isn't value to them not just they don't just say it they actually live it

that this is their value and I really believe that by embracing these values

the culture will change the culture will become healthy and it will lead to

growth because healthy things grow and it's a reality I've experienced

personally at your parish it's it's real and it's been handed in a small parish a

medium sized parish and a big parish all right now we saved the best for last

in the fifth sessions gonna be on the Holy Spirit the role of the Holy Spirit

I mean it's sort of obvious right but I don't think everybody understands what

that means and let's talk about it then Thanks