“When I saw Julian Assange I was SHOCKED by his appearance” Glenn Greenwald | Redacted News
Summary
TLDRこのビデオでは、ジャーナリストのグレン・グリーンウォルドがジュリアン・アサンジのケースとそれがプレスの自由の未来に与える影響について深く議論しています。アサンジの弁護側は、ウィキリークスの公開が誰かを害した証拠はないと主張し、これが米国への引き渡しに反対する重要な論点の一つとなりました。グリーンウォルドは、アサンジが政治的な理由で起訴されていること、英国が米国の影響下にあること、そしてこの裁判がジャーナリズムに与える潜在的な影響について語ります。彼はまた、オーストラリア政府がアサンジの解放に向けてどのように影響力を行使できるかについても触れています。この深い分析は、プレスの自由、国際政治、そして個人の権利に関心のある視聴者を引き付けます。
Takeaways
- 🔍 グレン・グリーンウォルドは、ジュリアン・アサンジの事件と報道の自由の未来について深い洞察を提供しています。
- 📢 防衛側は、ウィキリークスの公開によって実際に被害を受けた人がいないと主張しています。
- 🇺🇸 アメリカの安全保障国家は、情報の漏洩が常に人々を危険にさらすという認識を広めているが、具体的な例を示すことはできない。
- 🔓 ウィキリークスの漏洩が人々に害を及ぼしたというアメリカ政府の主張は大げさであったり、作り話である可能性が高い。
- ⚖️ 引き渡し条約によれば、政治的理由での引き渡しは禁止されていますが、アサンジのケースではこの原則が無視されている可能性があります。
- 🇬🇧 イギリスはアメリカの影響下にあり、アサンジの引き渡しに関してはその法的議論よりも政治的現実が重要になるかもしれません。
- 🇦🇺 オーストラリア政府はアサンジの釈放を求めているが、アメリカとの関係の中でどれだけ影響力を行使できるかは不透明です。
- 📰 アサンジの起訴は、報道の自由に対する脅威と見なされ、他の国々にも同様の行動をとる余地を与えるかもしれません。
- 🔒 ジュリアン・アサンジがすでに身体的、精神的に深刻な影響を受けていることが、彼を完全に「中立化」する米国政府の目的にかなっている可能性があります。
- 🤔 アサンジ事件が報道に与えた影響は深刻で、将来的にジャーナリズムがどのように行われるかに重大な影響を及ぼす可能性があります。
Q & A
ジュリアン・アサンジの事件が報道の自由の未来にとってどれほど重要かを説明してくれるジャーナリストは誰ですか?
-グレン・グリーンウォルドです。彼は賞を受賞したジャーナリストであり、「System Update」のホストでもあります。
ウィキリークスの公開が実際に誰かに害を与えた証拠があるか?
-防衛側の弁護士マーク・サマーズは、ウィキリークスの公開が誰かに害を与えた証拠はないと主張しています。
ウィキリークスの報道が米国の国家安全保障にどのような影響を与えたか?
-米国政府は過去に、機密情報の漏洩が現場の人々を危険にさらすと主張してきましたが、これらの主張に対する具体的な例を提供することはできませんでした。
アサンジの弁護側は政治的迫害についてどのように主張していますか?
-弁護側は、政治的目的での引き渡しが引き渡し条約に違反すると主張しています。
イギリスの裁判所がこれまでアサンジに関するどのような判断を下してきたか?
-イギリスの裁判所は、アサンジの弁護側のほぼ全ての主張を却下してきましたが、初期の判断で彼がアメリカへの引き渡しを生き延びられない可能性があるとして引き渡しに反対したことがあります。
オーストラリア政府はアサンジの状況にどのように関与していますか?
-オーストラリアの政府は、アサンジがオーストラリアの市民であることから、彼の解放を求めて米国に圧力をかけています。
アサンジがアメリカに引き渡される可能性はどのくらいありますか?
-アサンジの弁護側の主張が却下され、引き渡しの要求が承認された場合、彼は即座にアメリカへの引き渡しに直面する可能性があります。
アサンジの事件が他の政府にとってどのような先例を設定するか?
-アサンジへの訴追が支持されれば、他の政府も同様にジャーナリズムを犯罪化する根拠を持つことになり、これは全世界の調査ジャーナリズムに対する脅威となります。
アサンジのケースがジャーナリズムに既に与えた損害は何ですか?
-アサンジのケースは、米国政府がジャーナリストを追及することが可能であるという先例を設定し、他の国々が同様の行動をとる可能性があることを示しています。
グレン・グリーンウォルドは、アサンジの事件に関して楽観的ですか、それとも悲観的ですか?
-グリーンウォルドは、アサンジのケースに関して悲観的であり、イギリスがアメリカの要求に従う可能性が高いと考えていますが、バイデン政権がこの件を扱いたくない可能性があるという点で、若干の希望を示しています。
Outlines
🗣 ジュリアン・アサンジ事件と報道の自由
グレン・グリーンウォルドは、ジュリアン・アサンジのケースが報道の自由の未来にとって何を意味するのかについて語ります。アサンジの弁護団は、ウィキリークスの公開が実際に誰かを害した証拠はないと主張し、これがアメリカへの引き渡しに反対する主要な論点の一つであると述べています。グリーンウォルドは、アメリカのセキュリティステートが過去数十年にわたって同様の主張を繰り返してきたこと、そしてそのような漏洩が国家の安全を守るためではなく、主に自身の評判を守るために行われたことを指摘します。彼は、政府が分類情報の漏洩が必ずしも人々を危険にさらすわけではないという事実にもかかわらず、そのような漏洩が人々を危険にさらすという誤った信念を人々に植え付けたと批判しています。
🇬🇧 イギリスの司法制度とアサンジの将来
グリーンウォルドは、イギリスの司法制度がアサンジのケースにおいてどのような役割を果たしているかについて論評し、イギリスがかつてはその司法の独立性で知られていたが、現在はその多くを失っていると指摘します。彼は、イギリスがアメリカの意向に従う傾向があり、アサンジに対する政治的迫害が引き渡し条約に違反しているにもかかわらず、イギリスの裁判所がアサンジを守る可能性は非常に低いと述べています。また、彼はアサンジが「チェスの駒」としてどのように利用され得るかについても考察し、アサンジの身体的および精神的な状態が既に大きく損なわれていることを悲観的に見ています。
🔍 アサンジ事件がジャーナリズムに与える影響
グリーンウォルドは、アサンジの起訴が報道界全体、特に調査報道にどのような影響を与えるかを検討します。彼は自身の体験を引き合いに出し、ブラジルでの報道がアサンジの起訴とどのように類似しているかを詳述します。さらに、彼はアサンジ事件が他の国々によるジャーナリストへの迫害の正当化にどのように使われ得るかを指摘し、ジャーナリズムへの広範なダメージについて議論します。また、アメリカ政府がジャーナリストを対象としたこの種の起訴を支持することで、他の政府に同様の行動をとるための道を開いていると批判しています。
🚨 アサンジの引き渡しの可能性とその影響
グリーンウォルドは、アサンジがアメリカに引き渡される可能性とそれが持つ潜在的な影響について論じます。彼は、アサンジが即座にアメリカに送還されるリスクがあり、その場合アサンジがアメリカの土壌に立つことは二度とないと予測します。また、彼は、バイデン政権がこのケースを扱いたくない可能性があると指摘し、引き渡しを回避するための外交的解決策が存在するかもしれないとの希望を示唆しています。さらに、グリーンウォルドは、アサンジの支持者が持つ唯一の希望は、この起訴がバイデン政権にとって大きな頭痛の種であるという事実にあると結論づけています。
Mindmap
Keywords
💡ジュリアン・アサンジ
💡報道の自由
💡引き渡し
💡グレン・グリーンウォルド
💡WikiLeaks
💡政治的迫害
💡機密情報
💡エクストラディション
💡法的論争
💡国家安全保障
Highlights
Glenn Greenwald, an award-winning journalist, discusses the Julian Assange case's implications for press freedom.
Defense lawyer Mark Summers argues there's no evidence WikiLeaks' publications harmed anyone, challenging the narrative against Assange.
Greenwald criticizes the US Security State's tactic of claiming leaks endanger national security without providing evidence.
Assange's case raises questions about political prosecution and the violation of extradition treaties for political purposes.
UK courts' repeated rejection of Assange's appeals illustrates the political challenges and biases in the legal battle.
The Assange case demonstrates the UK's diminished judicial independence and its role as a 'puppet country' of the US.
Potential diplomatic resolutions for Assange's situation are discussed, including Australia's increasing pressure on the US.
The Australian government's role and influence in Assange's case highlight the complex international dynamics at play.
Assange's physical and psychological deterioration in prison underscores the personal toll of his legal ordeal.
Greenwald shares his personal experience with legal threats in Brazil, drawing parallels to Assange's legal theories.
The discussion touches on how Assange's case has already impacted journalism and the precedent it sets for criminalizing investigative reporting.
Concerns over safe countries for journalism and the broader implications of the US asserting jurisdiction over foreign nationals are voiced.
The role of the Australian government and international diplomacy in potentially securing Assange's freedom is examined.
The importance of preventing Assange from becoming a martyr or symbol for press freedom and whistleblowing is emphasized by US security agencies.
Speculation about the future of Assange's extradition and the potential immediate actions following court decisions.
The potential impact of Assange's case on the Biden Administration's legacy and the political calculus of proceeding with extradition.
The significance of broad editorial opposition from major media outlets to Assange's prosecution and its potential influence on the case's outcome.
Transcripts
well there is perhaps no better
journalist in the world to help us make
sense of the importance of the Julian
Assange case and what that is to the
future of press freedom than pet Sur
prizewinning journalist Glenn Greenwald
and host of system update right here on
Rumble streaming live uh on Rumble just
as we do here and we want to welcome
Glenn to the show tonight to talk all
about this Glenn welcome to redacted
great to have you
here thank you for having me I always
happy to be on fellow Rumble programs
it's good to be with you great to have
you Glenn as always uh it's great to get
your insights on topics like this the
defense of course made a number of
compelling um arguments today against
extradition to the United States two
points though really stood out to me and
and I want to get your take on this now
according to Taylor who you just heard
there who was just on our show defense
lawyer Mark Summers argued that there's
no evidence that anyone has been harmed
as a result of WikiLeaks Publications
that's 0 one and I just I found that I
just had to sit there and sit back for a
second after I heard that argument and
and say wait a second that that's true
like at the at the heart of this who
really has been hurt by the Wikileaks
Publications I mean if you think about
the size and scope of the
military-industrial complex it's grown
by Leaps and Bounds the intelligence
Community the intelligence state has
grown by Leaps and Bounds so maybe
they've even flourished under this what
do you think about that at least that
one part of the argument from the
defense this is a completely standard
tactic propagandistic speaking on the
part of the US Security State going back
decades every single time there's a leak
of information that they want to hide
not to protect the security the National
Security of the United States but to
protect their own reputation because
these leaks are V lies and deceit and
crimes that they've committed that's was
true of the Pentagon papers it was true
of our reporting in the Edward Snowden
archives it's been true of all the
Wikileaks reporting and what they have
convinced people to believe almost like
reflexively without having to present
any evidence is that every time there's
a leak of classified information it
necessarily means that people in the
field have been put into danger that the
names of undercover operatives have been
revealed to our enemies that it has
endangered all sorts of people all over
the world every single time you ask
someone who makes that claim about any
of these Leakes to give you a single
example of a single name of an operative
or an undercover agent or an informant
that has been disclosed by these
materials they will be completely
incapable of providing it to you right
when the Wikileaks leak happened in 2010
the government constantly came out and
made claims it was the Obama
Administration saying Wikileaks and
Julian Assange have blood on their hands
and when reporters finally started
asking well what blood do they have on
their hands they started realizing that
they had been misled that there was
nobody who had been harmed exactly as
your question suggested and then good
reporters like the ones who worked in
mcache one of the very few to question
the Iraqi wmd Li started publishing
articles that you can find online which
essentially said that the US government
completely exaggerated if not fabricated
all of these wild claims and even us
generals came out and said the idea that
these materials have harmed Americans or
put people in danger is probably a
fabrication but it's one of the things
that they have instilled in our
bloodstream to get people to almost
automatically oppose anybody who exposes
things that they have decided should be
secret one of the other questions and
that's such a great point and one of the
other questions that came up was the
idea about the the political prosecution
and of course under the extradition
treaty this is a violation of the
extradition treaty right you can't be
extradited for political purposes I mean
that's literally written right in the
statute so how are they going to how is
the prosecution tomorrow you think going
to make the case that yeah we just need
to violate this extradition treaty and
we need to send them to the United
States I mean we can go over the legal
arguments if you want I'm happy to do so
the legal AR arguments are extremely
compelling but there's a broader
political reality here namely that these
arguments have been made these same
arguments and every step along the way
this is the final appeal that Julian has
within the British Judiciary and every
single level of the British courts have
rejected every single argument the one
exception being that the very first
judge to look at this ruled against him
and all instances except said that he
was unlikely to survive an extradition
to the United States and therefore r
against the extradition request that was
reversed on appeal when the US
government made a bunch of assurances
about protecting his health none of
which are reliable since they're all
conditional so we can definitely analyze
the validity of the legal arguments and
they're extremely potent in favor of
Assange the problem is is that the UK is
a basically a puppet country of the
United States they do what the United
States government tells them to do
they're a tiny little former Empire who
has no Prestige and no power in the
world they're constantly kind of
trailing along Ong with whatever the
United States government tells them to
do their Judiciary has very little
Independence left it once the British
Judiciary once was renowned for its
independence and now it has very little
left and I wish more than anything that
I was more optimistic about the outcome
of this case I hope more than anything
that I'm wrong but just for political
reasons the fact that there's so much
hysteria about Russia that they have
convinced the West that Assange is an
agent of the Russian government even
though that has no basis the chances
that any Court in the K will intervene
and tell the United States that they
will not get this extradition unless
behind the scenes the Biden
Administration doesn't really want to
bring him to American soil to stand
trial which I actually think is possible
for reasons we could discuss if you want
the notion that the British judges on
their own will protect Julian Assange no
matter how compelling the legal
arguments seems very very remote to me I
want to ask a question because I think
that brings up a good point about
Assange as a chess piece and how he
could be useful to say Rishi sunak or
the Biden Administration so that they
can hold him up as a just position for
oh Alexi naly right he wasn't let out
even though we know he was not a
journalist uh and so what are the
implications what are the possible ways
that he could be used you bring up a
good point let's let's play that out a
little if you don't
mind so by all accounts if you listen to
assange's doctors and psychiatrists and
psychologist and family members he's
already basically destroyed as a person
physically
psychologically emotionally I visited
him back in
2017 when he was still at the Ecuadorian
Embassy just a few months before he was
taken out by the London Police and
brought to prison and I was shocked by
what I saw when I visited him I mean he
was still mentally acute but you know he
had been inside of a of a Embassy like a
one-bedroom apartment basically in the
middle of London with no outdoor space
for many years by that point which
completely corrodes your physical health
now he's in a high security prison this
is not a joke of a prison the BBC has
called this uh the British Guantanamo
this is where terrorist suspects go and
organized criminal uh suspects this is a
high security prison he's been there now
for four or five years this is hard jail
time he's done and so I think that the
goal of the US government was just to
destroy Julian Assange and on some level
they've already achieved that in a way
that will serve their interest I think
even more so than letting him out
imagine if they do actually succeed in
this extradition and then Julian Assange
comes and stands trial in a Northern
Virginia Courthouse as the first ever
publisher of information to be charged
with Espionage crimes and face life uh
imprison for having published documents
that he did not help acquire setting a
standard that every press freedom and
civil liberties group in the west is set
as a grave threat to press freedom I
don't think that the Biden
Administration wants that on their
legacy nor do I think they want this
incredible Sideshow this drama that's
going to happen outside that Courthouse
with protesters with Julian Assange
taking the stand saying who knows what
with his ability to demand classified
information that they won't want to give
him one of the things that has changed
in this case politically is that the
Australian government pressured by the
Australian citizen or remember Julian
Assange as a citizen of Australia that's
the only country of which he's ever been
a citizen has finally started telling
Australia why aren't you protecting our
Citizen and the Prime Minister has now
come out publicly and privately and told
the United States enough is enough it's
time to release him and that diplomatic
solution is one exit that everybody has
to both get Assange totally neutralized
and destroyed out of this court system
feeling like they've neutralized him in
Wikileaks and no longer need to worry
about him but at the same time don't
need to bring him to the United States
in order to create this Nani comparison
do you think that does the Australian
government have that power to be able to
bring him to Australia do you
think Australia is a very important
Junior Ally of the United States
especially with this kind of shift to
the focus on Asia and the Pacific and
China the United States has just closed
this very important new alliance with
the UK and with Australia where nuclear
submarines are going to be placed in
Australia as a deterrence against China
so the importance of Australia has
actually increased pretty significantly
in the last few years but it's still a
subservient relationship just like with
the UK and the us but if the Australians
really wanted badly enough to get their
citizen back I think they could do it
the problem is is that there are a lot
of factions inside Washington that
consider Julina Sange and Edward Snowden
to be the devil there is nobody they
want to destroy more and I think one of
the things they fear in Langley and in
the other three-letter agencies is that
Assange gets free isn't quite as
physically or psychologically distinct
and then gets to live life freely as a
hero who stood up to the US
and kind of becomes a symbol that might
Inspire others to do the same thing I
think that's the thing they fear most so
Australia might have a lot of Leverage
but the CIA and the Pentagon and the
documents from which these agencies came
that the state department that Assange
published also have a lot of Leverage
and it all depends on how badly they
want him fully destroyed can I ask you
sort of a I guess I don't know esot
question really but I guess it's how
much damage has already been done to
journalism as a result of this
regardless of the outcome of what
happens
next so I'll just tell you a little
anecdote that involved myself which was
in May of
2019 I wrote an upet in the Washington
Post when this indictment was released
warning that the theories on which this
indictment were base would be a threat
to all investigative journalism
everywhere that it was essentially a
theory that would enable States
throughout the West to criminalize
investigative journalism of all kind
because the argument that they made
about why Assange did something the
guardian of the the New York Times
didn't do namely receive they this
information they say he became a
conspirator with his Source Chelsea
Manning by doing things like encouraging
her to get more documents or uh helping
her evade
detection that is something that
investigative journalist do all the time
and I argument in the Washington post.
bed was if that becomes criminal every
investigative journalist is going to be
easily criminalized and unbeknownst to
me at the time about two weeks later at
had a major source in Brazil hand me a
huge Archive of secret material that I
ended up reporting on that changed the
course of Brazil it it basically freed
Lula D Silva from prison it changed the
course of Brazilian political history in
so many ways and I ended up indicted by
allies of the Justice minister in Brazil
based on exactly this theory that by
encouraging my source to get more
information by helping them avoid
detection even though I wasn't part of
the acquisition of the documents I had
become a conspirator in the crimes
committed by my source based on exact
actly the blueprint used to prosecute
Julian Assange and I ended up being
exonerated because the Brazilian court
intervened and said my press freedom is
guaranteed by the Brazilian Constitution
prohibit my prosecution but I was lucky
I mean I could have easily been in julan
ass San's position and so can every
investigative journalist if this
indictment ends up being upheld but as
you said the mere fact that the US
government has already stood behind it
is a signal to other governments that
well if the United States can do this to
journalist then certainly we can too
right and so you're an expat living a
broad we are too and so you have to
wonder where is it safe to do journalism
do I need to look into the country that
I'm living in and their relationship
with the United States as the world
Central bully that's something that we
think about all the time but I have to
wonder because most of his alleged
crimes happened almost a decade ago or
over that much time and now when the
government sees something they don't
like they can censor they can label it
misinformation or they defame the person
and that's been fairly successful so do
they have what they need in the
cautionary tale of Assange because
they're otherwise they've got these
other nefarious tools now I mean that
doesn't make me feel any better but it's
a little bit less personal now do you
know what I
mean yeah absolutely you know first of
all one of the amazing things about this
case is that not only is Doan Assange
not a citizen of the United States I
can't tell you how often I hear people
accusing him of treason do Americans
think that every citizen in the world of
every other country namely 95% of the
planet who are not Americans have some
overarching duty of loyalty to the
United States government but he's only
been to the United States one time for
about three days and so the fact that
the government the US government asserts
the power to reach across the world and
grab him and take him back to the United
States for the reporting of course if
you're a US citizen living abroad or
anywhere you're going to be pretty
alarmed by that I think at least you
should be and I think the point that you
asked is the the most important one you
know when I uh was advocating for Edward
snowden's part in the last days of the
Trump Administration and Trump got
pretty close but really felt like there
was a lot of opposition arrayed against
him and I think that final impeachment
was a sort of Stam sword hanging over
his head to make sure he didn't do
things on the way out like declassify
JFK files and Parton Edward sodin and
Julian Assange it was kind of odd to me
how important it was to the US Security
State that Edward snow did not be
pardoned and allowed to come home after
all he's no threat to anybody has no
more access to classified material and
yet what they're so interested in is the
deterrent of fact that everyone has to
know that if you defy or report on the
US Security State the way that they
dislike they want you to know that you
will end up being destroyed and they
can't allow somebody like Edward Snowden
like Julina Sange to be able to go free
have a Heroes welcome that's the reason
why they pursue these cases long past
the point where the person continued to
put posed a threat to them I'll get you
out of here on this Glenn which is what
where do you think this goes from here
do you think he is extradited back to
the United
States well I think one of the uh scary
part here is that if this court rejects
the arguments of his lawyers and
approves the extradition request as the
lower courts have done he might be
subject to immediate deportation he
wants to appeal to a European court and
argue that the UK though still not
though not part of the EU after brexit
is still subject to European law on
human rights and they may not want him
to do that they might want to exray him
immediately and so the minute that this
decision is issued before he has a
chance to appeal they could put him on a
plane to Washington and he will be on us
soil now again I don't trust the US the
UK Judiciary I think the only hope is
that there's some diplomatic solution
that we're not privy to that in some way
result in his release but but it could
very well be the case that you know he's
a matter of a couple of weeks away from
getting on a plane and coming to
American soil where I'm convinced he
will never
leave unbelievable well I was right
there's perhaps no one better in the
world to talk about this from a
journalistic perspective than Glenn
Greenwald sorry I didn't have better
news for you and I left it with kind of
a gloomy impression but that's the one
no but but so my brain is thinking in
terms of something you said earlier
which is you know maybe the Biden
Administration doesn't want to deal with
this in this way right they don't want
this to be their legacy and perhaps
maybe that is the Silver Lining so in my
brain I always go to the glass half full
so I'm thinking of the Silver Lining
here that the bite Administration has a
whole other heaping ton of problems
right now on their plate they do not
want to have tens of thousands of people
descending on Washington DC CU I would
take my show there I would I we would
broadcast live from that event and we
would make it as loud as possible if
that happened in the United States so I
don't think they want that headache so
that's the Silver Lining that I see
Glenn I couldn't agree with you Martin
remember every media outlet from The New
York Times to the guardian to The
Washington Post is editorialized against
this prosecution they won't have many
allies in this prosecution if they go
forward with it so I think it's a huge
headache for them when they already have
so many others as you suggested seven
months away from an election and that is
the one hope that I think Assange and
his supporters have yeah absolutely yeah
I'm hoping for a miracle too uh thank
you for coming on redacted for the first
time we're longtime Watchers of your
show and we really are so excited to
have had you on you gotta watch you
gotta watch system update on Rumble
absolutely system update on Rumble thank
you so much Glenn and don't be a
stranger hopefully we'll have you back
soon happy to do it good night I really
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