Leading the B2B frontier: People fueling profitability

Summary

In this insightful conversation, Rupali of Matrix Moments interviews Ashish Mahapatra, co-founder and CEO of OFB and Oxo, two profitable unicorns. They delve into the importance of having a larger-than-life persona for company representatives, the strategy of building in-house talent, and the challenges of integrating senior external hires. Ashish shares his vision on company culture, hiring non-negotiables, and the success of their Management Trainee program, emphasizing patience and the long-term benefits of investing in young talent.

Takeaways

• 🚀 Building a successful company requires a strong founding team with common values and complementary skills.
• 💡 The importance of hands-on founders who are deeply involved in the operations and not reliant on assistants or junior staff.
• 💰 A focus on profitability and prioritizing the company's needs over personal interests is crucial for business success.
• 📈 Scaling a business involves a clear vision, a dedicated team, and the willingness to invest in young talent for long-term growth.
• 🔑 Emphasizing the significance of in-house talent development over hiring senior external candidates for better cultural integration.
• 👥 Recognizing the value of smaller, highly integrated teams over larger teams for efficiency and cost-effectiveness.
• 🌟 The belief that everyone in the company, not just the founder, should embody a 'larger than life' persona to enhance the company's image.
• 📝 The power of personal storytelling and leadership in social media as a free marketing tool and a recruitment strategy.
• 🔄 The necessity of adapting and changing roles for new hires to find the best fit and maximize their potential within the company.
• 🤝 The importance of maintaining promises made during campus recruitment to build trust and a positive employer brand.
• 💡 Leading by example is a key management style, where senior management's actions directly influence company culture and operations.

Q & A

What is the significance of having a larger-than-life persona for a founder or a company according to Ashish Mahapatra?

Ashish Mahapatra believes that not just the founder, but almost everyone associated with a company should have a larger-than-life persona. This is because in the early stages of a company, the company's image is a summation of everyone associated with it, and having a strong online presence can add to the company's image, attract the right kind of people, and serve as free marketing.

What is Ashish Mahapatra's view on building in-house talent as opposed to hiring experienced professionals?

Ashish Mahapatra prefers building in-house talent because it can be more cost-effective and allows the company to shape individuals according to its culture. He believes that young people with energy and hunger can pick up skills with time, action, and empowerment, rather than relying on expensive and potentially less adaptable senior professionals.

What common values does Ashish Mahapatra emphasize for the founding team of a successful company?

Ashish Mahapatra emphasizes that the founding team must have common values, which include being hands-on, focusing on profitability, and prioritizing the company's interests over personal interests.

What is the 'Playbook' Ashish Mahapatra started with when building his organization?

Ashish Mahapatra's playbook for building an organization includes having common values among the founding team, ensuring each member has unique skills that others can't replicate, and fostering an environment of trust and respect based on these shared values and complementary skills.

How does Ashish Mahapatra define the success of his companies, OFB and Oxo?

Ashish Mahapatra defines the success of his companies by their profitability and growth. OFB has grown to a team of about 650 people with a revenue of close to 16,000 cror and a profit of 500 cror. Oxo has about 400 employees and manages assets worth close to 4,83 cror with a profit of 200 cror.

What is the team size of OFB and Oxo according to the transcript?

OFB has a team size of close to 650 people, while Oxo has about 400 employees, making the combined team size approximately 1100 people.

What is the annual revenue and profit of OFB according to the transcript?

OFB had an annual revenue of close to 16,000 cror and a profit after tax of 500 cror, as mentioned in the transcript.

What is the Asset Under Management (AUM) and profit of Oxo as per the transcript?

Oxo has an Asset Under Management (AUM) of close to 4,83 cror and a profit after tax of close to 200 cror.

What is the significance of the 'U lala' company term as used by Ashish Mahapatra?

The term 'U lala' company is a playful response to criticism that Ashish's company was not focused on making money. Ashish turned it into a positive by adding an 'O' to 'la la', making it 'U lala', indicating that they are now everyone's fantasy due to their success, while still maintaining the core of being a profitable business.

What is Ashish Mahapatra's approach to hiring and retaining talent?

Ashish Mahapatra's approach involves hiring young talent from tier-2 colleges, giving them roles early on with the understanding that they may not deliver significant output for the first couple of years. He emphasizes patience, providing second chances in different roles if the initial role doesn't work out, and ensuring that promises made during campus recruitment are kept.

What are the three non-negotiables Ashish Mahapatra looks for when hiring someone?

The three non-negotiables are: 1) The person must always aim to do the right thing, not the fast or quick thing. 2) The person must be willing to work hard and go out of their comfort zone. 3) The person must have a commercial mindset and a desire to make money.

Outlines

00:00

🚀 Building a Unicorn with Strong Core Values

The paragraph discusses the importance of having a strong persona and core values for the founding team of a successful company. The speaker emphasizes the necessity of in-house talent building, especially in early stages. The conversation introduces Ashish Mahapatra, co-founder and CEO of OFB and Oxo, who shares his experiences and strategies for scaling a business and building an organization with a shared vision and complementary skills.

05:00

📈 Scaling Business and Team Growth Insights

This paragraph delves into the growth trajectory of Ashish's companies, OFB and Oxo, highlighting the team size and financial achievements. Ashish shares his insights on team integration, the value of smaller, efficient teams, and the conscious decision to build in-house talent. He also discusses the challenges of integrating senior external hires and the importance of leading by example to maintain company culture.

10:02

🤝 The DNA of Organizational Culture and Hiring

Ashish talks about the importance of reinforcing company values through personal actions and making tough decisions in hiring. He outlines non-negotiables in the hiring process, such as integrity, hard work, and a commercial mindset. The paragraph also touches on the mistakes made in integrating senior hires and the delay in establishing formal people management systems.

15:02

🌟 Cultivating Young Talent for Long-term Success

Ashish explains the strategy behind investing in young talent straight from college, focusing on second-tier B-schools to find dedicated and patient individuals. He outlines the campus activation process, the importance of giving new hires a chance to prove themselves in different roles, and the long-term benefits of this approach, despite the initial lack of immediate output.

20:03

🔄 Learning from Mistakes in Talent Management

The speaker reflects on the challenges of managing and retaining talent, emphasizing the importance of keeping promises made during campus recruitment. Ashish discusses the high retention rate and the evolution of the talent program, including the need for patience and the benefits of a hands-on approach from senior management in the initial years.

25:05

💡 Embracing a Public Persona for Business Growth

Ashish shares his views on the benefits of a founder having a strong public presence and the role it plays in attracting talent and building the company's image. He talks about the use of social media as a free recruitment tool and the importance of authenticity in representing the company's culture and values.

🌈 Transforming a 'Lala' Company into a Fantasy Business

In this final paragraph, Ashish addresses the perception of his company as a 'lala' company, focusing on making money. He humorously responds to criticism by stating that they have evolved into a 'laao' company, which is everyone's fantasy. The paragraph highlights the team's supportive response to external criticism and the positive engagement it generated.

Keywords

💡Consultant Operator

A consultant operator is an individual who provides strategic advice and guidance to businesses, often with hands-on involvement in the company's operations. In the video, the guest has been a consultant operator, a venture capitalist, and has been involved in the growth of two profitable unicorns, indicating a deep level of engagement and contribution to the success of these companies.

💡Unicorn

A unicorn in the business world refers to a privately held startup company valued at over $1 billion. The script mentions 'two profitable unicorns,' which highlights the significant achievement of creating companies that have reached this high valuation and are also profitable, showcasing the success of the ventures discussed.

💡In-house Talent

In-house talent refers to the employees or team members who work within a company as opposed to outsourcing certain roles or functions. The script emphasizes the importance of building in-house talent, which is a strategy to develop and retain skilled individuals within the organization, contributing to its long-term growth and success.

💡Common Values

Common values are the shared beliefs and principles that guide the behavior and decision-making within a team or organization. The script discusses the importance of having common values among the founding team as a foundation for trust and respect, which are essential for the successful operation and scaling of a business.

💡Profitability

Profitability is the ability of a business to generate income that exceeds its expenses, indicating its financial health and sustainability. The script mentions the necessity of thinking about profitability first, emphasizing the importance of financial success as a core principle for the businesses discussed.

💡Company First

The concept of 'company first' implies prioritizing the interests and needs of the organization over personal interests. In the script, this is highlighted as a common value that the founding team members adhere to, indicating a commitment to the success of the company above individual gains.

💡Team Size

Team size refers to the number of people employed within an organization. The script provides specific numbers regarding the team size of the companies mentioned, which is an indicator of the scale of operations and the capacity to manage a large workforce effectively.

💡Cultural Integration

Cultural integration in a business context refers to the process of blending different individuals into the company's culture. The script discusses the challenges faced in integrating senior external hires into the company culture, which is a critical aspect of maintaining a cohesive and productive work environment.

💡Performance Management Systems

Performance management systems are formal processes for evaluating employee performance and providing feedback. The script mentions the late implementation of such systems as a mistake, indicating the importance of having structured ways to assess and improve employee performance and contribution to the company's goals.

💡Non-negotiables

Non-negotiables are the essential criteria or requirements that must be met without exception. In the script, hiring non-negotiables such as doing the right thing, working hard, and having a commercial mindset are discussed, which are the fundamental qualities sought after in new hires to ensure they align with the company's values and goals.

💡Campus Recruitment

Campus recruitment involves hiring new graduates directly from educational institutions. The script details a specific program for campus recruitment, highlighting the company's strategy to invest in young talent, the importance of selecting the right colleges, and the commitment to nurturing these individuals for long-term success within the organization.

💡Leadership Development

Leadership development refers to the process of nurturing and preparing individuals to take on leadership roles within an organization. The script mentions that many of the senior management team members are from the early batches of campus recruits, indicating a deliberate approach to developing leaders from within the company.

💡Entrepreneurial Vision

An entrepreneurial vision is the ability to envision and create a successful business or venture. The script discusses the guest's journey and the strategies he employed to build successful ventures, which is a testament to his entrepreneurial vision and the execution of that vision.

💡Social Media Presence

A social media presence refers to the activity and influence an individual or company has on social media platforms. The script highlights the benefits of a founder having a strong social media presence, as it can enhance the company's image, attract talent, and serve as a marketing tool.

💡Personal Branding

Personal branding is the process of creating and maintaining a public image or identity for an individual. The script suggests that not only the founder but everyone associated with the company should have a 'larger than life' persona, which is a form of personal branding that can contribute positively to the company's overall brand.

💡Content Creation

Content creation involves producing original content, such as articles or blog posts, to engage an audience or convey a message. The script mentions the founder's practice of writing Sunday afternoon content, which serves as a master class in business and culture, and also as a recruitment tool, demonstrating the power of content creation in building a company's reputation and attracting talent.

💡LAALA Company

The term 'LAALA Company' is a playful and self-deprecating way to refer to a company that is focused on making money, as perceived by others. In the script, the guest humorously explains how his company has evolved from being seen as a 'LAALA' company to a 'ULAA' company, indicating growth and success, and also showing the company's ability to embrace and respond to criticism with creativity and humor.

Highlights

The importance of having a larger-than-life persona for not just the founder but everyone associated with the company for effective early-stage company image building.

Building in-house talent is crucial, especially in early stages, despite the time and effort it takes to develop such talent.

Ashish Mahapatra's belief in the necessity of common values within the founding team for a successful organization.

The founding team must have unique, non-replicable skills that complement each other to build trust and respect.

The hands-on approach of the founding team, doing their own work without relying on secretaries or drivers, as a core value.

Profitability and company-first mindset as essential values for the team at OFB and Oxo.

The impressive scale of OFB with 650 people and Oxo with 400 people, achieving significant revenue and profit.

The strategy of hiring and integrating new people efficiently, with an average of 25-28 people joining per month.

The belief in smaller, highly integrated teams delivering more value than a larger number of employees.

The challenges of integrating senior external hires into a young and dynamic company culture.

The importance of leading by example and living the company values to instill them in the entire organization.

The mistake of being late to create people management systems and performance management systems within the company.

The non-negotiables for hiring, including doing the right thing, working hard, and having a commercial mindset focused on making money.

The Mt. Program's strategy for investing in young talent from second-tier B-schools, with a focus on patience and long-term growth.

The high retention rate of the Mt. Program, with 60-70% sticking around after two years, indicating a successful人才培养策略.

The power of a founder's personal brand on social media for free marketing, recruitment, and building company image.

The evolution of the company from being seen as 'laa' to 'ulaa', reflecting growth and success while maintaining a strong commitment to making money.

Transcripts

you've been an consultant operator a VC

you have two profitable unicorns it

looks like you've done everything right

my strong belief is that uh not just the

founder but almost everybody associated

with the company needs to have a larger

than life uh Persona um you know

building in house Talent that's right

which is very uh which not which is not

easily seen in early stage we go to

let's say the second tier IMS the

necessity came from the fact that you

know most of our business actually

happens in here to location I ask is U

um what can you give to the company and

most people come up with all kinds of

stuff my biggest miss that I've never

got to work with you in Matrix but I'm

glad Matrix allowed me to know

you hello everyone I'm I'm rupali and

this is Matrix moments people first a

conversational Series where we talk to

remarkable Founders entrepreneurs and

leaders on how they build successful

Ventures by building amazing teams

around them today I have a very special

guest um Ashish mahapatra um co-founder

and CEO of off business and co-founder

of Oxo um Ashish you know I've been

waiting to do this for a while so can't

be thankful enough um you know there are

you've been connected with the Matrix

system for a while I think my biggest um

my biggest miss that I've never got to

work with you in Matrix but I'm glad

Matrix allowed me to know you better

right thank you so much thank you so

much thank you for having me looking

forward to a good uh conversation no I'm

definitely very excited and I'm sure you

know I'm I'm looking forward to knowing

all the secrets um I know you you spoken

a lot right but today we going to focus

more around your Aug Building stories

and hoping that a lot of entrepreneurs

can learn from some of something very

close to my heart so looking forward

perfect so as I'm going you know I think

everybody knows you've been an

consultant operator a VC but when you

started off business while you had and

have an amazing co-founding team you

wear a set of firsttime Founders that's

right right yeah but still when you look

back it looks like you've done

everything

right at least sales guys projected that

way at least it looks seamless it looks

right so I'm sure there was some

framework in your mind right while you

you had a vision to how to scale a

business I'm sure there was a vision

around how to build an org who can take

this Vision forward right what was that

Playbook that you you guys started with

so uh my playbook was very

straightforward what I had seen at work

in most successful companies not just

startups but any kind of successful

organizations was very simple the that

pretty much the founding team has to

have some common values between them

okay and those are pretty much

necessities and you can't really

compromise on them and on top of that

you actually have one or maybe two

skills in each individual that the other

can't replicate so hence you inherently

have trust because they have these

common values but you also have respect

which actually emanates from the fact

that they do something that you

complimentary yeah complimentary so the

common values that we have had and we

still Em are one you have to be very

Hands-On each one of us does our own

work no secretary no driver we pretty

much do our own work no I mean no

Juniors no handyman no p toems uh so one

one that two very commercial so you have

to think profitability first you have to

you know and third you have to think

company first so you have to give your

life to the company first and then think

about yourself so those are common

values but if you look at people who

were in our founding team somebody was

very good in was very high on energy me

Jen somebody who was very good in in

detail and thinking about you know

jelling everybody together

and so guess that's wonderful uh but for

well we have access to seeing your

journey and we know right for our

viewers sis would love to know um the

scale you guys operated from a size

perspective right there are you know

fast forward you guys started this 8

years back fast forward to now 8 years

almost 8 years right seven years you

have two profitable unicorns right um so

would love to know the kind of scale you

guys have built in terms of what is the

team size how big is ofb how big is yeah

yeah yeah so ofb today has close to

about 650 people and uh last year it did

a for the full fiscal it did a revenue

of close to about 16,000 cror and a

profit of close to 500 cres um profit

after tax of 500 cror uh if you look at

Oxo oizo has about 400 OD people and

last year built an AUM which is assets

in the management of close to 4,

83 and uh profit after tax of close to

200 so um so our team is about 1100 is

we've kind of you know um we taken about

my sense is about 300 a year new people

new people okay so um on an average

about 25 people join so I think we lose

about one or two every month and about

27 28 is tickets so um and I think we've

added 300 for the last 3 years so three

years back we were just 200 people wow

PR yeah that's but it's it's a very

highly integrated both thing very much

very much so I think one of the things

that we pride ourselves on uh and we've

learned that with with time passing by

that you know smaller teams especially

they in they are welln they actually

deliver more value just the sheer count

of having a lot more people doesn't

really help so if uh if each one of us

can give 20% more and that to

efficiently it's probably a better

outcome for the organization both on

cost as well as on efficiency rather

than just having more number of people

yeah and and that takes me into the fact

because you said there there needs to be

an Arbitrage that you can fill up right

from work perspective you guys also

adopted very consciously um a method of

um you know building in house Talent

that's right which is very uh which not

which is not easily seen in early stage

you know early stage generally is you

know because it's it's you know you need

hacky Solutions you need people who can

come do on the right um because Bill

is everybody knows takes time effort a

lot of time invested right so why and

and I know now that you guys have this

amazing engine running which works

beautifully for both the organization

right so what was that flavor I think to

be very honest with you I when there was

always this pensent uh or the luer of

actually taking somebody who was senior

yeah but they were expensive I wanted to

make money you know so we could have got

them in earlier they maybe they would

have delivered more than what we all did

but I think it would just cost a lot and

first we wanted to make money second is

I think as individuals who are very

Hands-On it's very difficult to coexist

with people who are very senior and are

very learned for example you know I

think I will Jael very well with an

unskill labor or somebody who's just

fresh out of college than uh than

somebody who is like 20 years from the

industry because he' come and tell me

his stories I would rather tell my

stories to but how do you solve for

functional depth fun dep I think it's

it's I think it's a myth okay people

pick it up with time uh people pick it

up with action people pick it up with

empowerment so if you have a young guy

who has all the energy is ready to throw

in all the energy with all the hunger

and deep down end of the pool he'll

probably pick it up that's the sense I

had I mean to be honest with you I think

that's something that I picked up from

previous organizations that I had worked

with so whether it is McKenzie whether

it is ITC I have seen that at work and

um you know um for example I was was a

maintenance engineer in my first job I

knew nothing about those machines that I

was trying to maintain within a month I

kind of you know figured I figured it

out yeah yeah so yeah um but um Ash if

you see you you you know you guys have

grown super fast 0 to 1 1 to 10 10 to

100 and yeah am I allowed to say that

there is an IPO around the

corner

gross so so the the business has grown

to different scale of growth right um

but are there some behavioral

non-negotiables that you still see

because I'm sure when you build that

core team you looked at certain things

right but I also know that when you go

through a scale not everybody will

evangelize the vision the way your core

team might have done right but how do

you still ensure right um some of those

the DNA St how do you ensure it now that

you know yeah that's the key to actually

building an organization you can have

your set of values they can be different

from each other but how do you really

stay C to it is the key I think couple

of things that we have done uh right and

I'll tell you also what we've done wrong

um I think two things that we've done

right one is we've kind of reiterated

the same set of values by doing it

ourselves so you know leading by example

leading by example and there is no uh

you know going away from it if you don't

lead by example if you have any other

method happen is it will flow through

the C so I give me an example so for

example if we say company first like for

example if there is a meeting to be done

and U and let's say your junior is is

not

because he's into something else he's

not well or whatever I think the senior

always steps into actually go into the

meeting rather than asking a parall guy

or a junior guy to come right so that's

the culture in a company if the junior

can't do it then the senior will do it

so it forces everybody to be hands on

right yeah and uh so that's one I think

second is uh when it comes to for

example even it itsy tiny things for

example if somebody's traveling and

there is a cost to be uh incurred on

behalf of the company the person will

pay it without even thinking twice

whether you know he get reimbursed or

not he'll probably get reimbursed

anyways but he will always spend that

money personally first so those are the

kind of things I mean these are small

things sh others pickup and we all we

all practice that ourselves so that kind

of stays true so tell me some of the

mistakes you have made because you know

you you you make it looks you guys make

it look so simple Sal yeah you make it

sound very easy very seamless and but

I'm sure there were innumerable mistakes

so what would some of those be

especially around culture people yes yes

yes spe specifically around culture I

think we were very poor at integrating

people who are senior and from the

outside and I think hence we have lost

out in terms of learning in specific

areas because I think because we are so

young as a team the median age in the

company is probably 25 to 26 what

happens is that somebody who's very

senior finds it very tough to jel and

once they've come in and we've tried a

few once they've come in we've not been

able to really create that conducive

environment certain functions have done

it well but more generalist functions

like sales marketing operations

underwriting and stuff like that have

not have not really done it right so so

hence we probably lost out on and we

always made mistakes that have always

happened elsewhere so that's been the

business outcome so I would say that's

number one um number two on my list on

the people front is that we were very

late to create people Management systems

or Performance Management Systems you

know it was so much like a family so

much like an extension of college that

we kind of never really um

institutionalized we never really

institutionalized input so there

everybody was measured by output how

much revenue you brought for the company

how much cost did you cut down and stuff

like that there were people putting in a

lot of effort but not much was coming

out of it because of the circumstances

that they were in those are the kind of

people who kind of because we did not

put put PMS system and they didn't get

benefited by they didn't get benefited

by I think looking back I would first

correct the letter and then the form got

it got it understood but tell me what

are your non-negotiables when you hire

someone one uh non-negotiables first is

the fact that uh it the person has to uh

always aim to do the right thing not the

fast thing or not the quick thing or not

the most in thing but how will you

measure that that's very simple if you

talk to somebody and you be looking at

it for like let's say 10 15 years you'll

get to know it's very intuitive but

there are some things like for example

if you ask him how you know when he's

been in a trade-off in a business

tradeoff how what kind of decisions he

makes what takes him to those kind of

decision so that's one in the

conversation itself but second is more

importantly blind reference checks if

you do a lot of reference checks you

will realize whether the person is more

jugar or takes time to do the right

thing we would always take the guy who

who take time to do the right thing

because we have enough people who will

do jugar inside right so I stand a you

know living example of it so yeah um so

that's one non-negotiable I think the

second non-negotiable is just working

hard I think India as a country if

somebody's not ready to put in

everything I don't want to mention ours

because it's taboo these days uh so

India as a country needs somebody to

really go out of their comfort zone

whatever those RS are yeah and uh and

really stretch um that's non-negotiable

I think the third thing for us is a is a

very

important part of the business that we

are in which is a commercial Viet the

art of making money the the want to make

money uh is something that we look for

um I think people are from business

families have it to an extent uh but

we've seen that people who've had

business exposure but not necessary from

business families are even better than

ones than who are from business family

so those are pretty much the three

things that we today look for it has

evolved with time today I think these

are the three I think earlier probably

there were s different three Ashish I'm

going to ask you to tell us more about

the Mt program that you run right um

very close to my heart yeah a lot of

Founders have asked me and our Founders

that love have to know how Ashish and

team does it right and it's it's like a

in-house IP that you have created for

you right so tell us more about so it

come it starts off with the belief

rupali that uh you know young people

will be better off uh in the company

than than some of the older guys I think

that belief is crucial because that

belief brings you to investing in young

talent because fundamentally they won't

deliver for the first couple of years I

think the third year onwards is when you

really start seeing output from them it

will be really out of the par the fifth

year so first of all you have to have

that belief you don't need to really

measure them for the first couple of

years at least when you're starting off

the program so one is that two is I

think to be very concentrated in a few

colleges you can't be going to Tom Dick

and Harry which colleges you pick so we

kind of zeroed down on saying that we

will not take the top tier first of all

we will go only to B schools okay not to

the engineering grads because if the

engineering grads join in then they will

fly off to B schools after some time we

want people to join to retire yeah um so

we in even in B schools we took the next

rung not the really the top rung because

the top rung is really hungry he's

always mobile he's always but may I ask

why because you are in I and that is why

I hate I so you know what if I'm from an

i or if somebody's from an IM or an ISB

he's always looking for his next Greener

pasture so more mercenary more mercenary

more I mean I don't want to say it but

but is it bad it's not bad but it's it's

bad but not for what you're trying to

solve you want people who will stay do

that if people join to retire if they

can compound in a particular role within

a certain company they will actually

clearly hit it out of the park after

like 3 four years but nobody's ready to

give in those three four years so we

kind of zeroed down on saying that hey

if we go to the tier 2 colleges then

probably the best ones from there are

the ones who really put in a lot of

effort and those are the ones who will

actually have a little more patience so

um we go to let's say the second tier

IMS kashipur uh tii Ur Rak um

if FMS not really second year but but

still not really abcl right so we go

there and a few other colleges which are

a little less next strong and so second

is to be targeted and we go there every

single year right the third thing that

we do there is we do a lot of Campus

activation okay for example um day after

tomorrow I'm I'm the lead speaker in

their campus induction program and I'm

Kash so you have to invest prior the

campus has to know you so that they know

what you guys do and Senior Management

does it it's not like left to the you

know the most recent uh the third thing

that we do is that when these guys come

in that's when the proof of the pudding

comes by um you actually give them

something and quickly and and should be

quickly ready to change if it's not

working for them so you should always

give them a second chance because likely

when you're throwing them at the deep

end of the pool you'll get it wrong most

likely the first time around and you

can't judge him by the fact that he

actually failed in the first vocation

that you gave him so quickly change if

he's in sales don't do well give him Ops

if he's an Ops didn't do well give him

sales of Finance but somebody has to

process manage this yes so what we've

been blessed with is a team that has

been at it for the last 7 years we 7

years old and somebody's been leading it

from the HR team uh right for the entire

seven years so that amount of solidarity

is also very important because otherwise

you know campus handovers are very very

tricky and how big is this batch usually

uh last year it was 107 wow 107 we uh

for the first year it was just three

people so from three we've now grown to

and a lot of your leadership is from

your first second batches is what I know

yes that's right Wonder in fact I would

say that um if you take the senior

management team which is close to about

30 odd people my sense is uh about 20

would be from Wow freshman or zero to

one batches because what happens is once

you start taking these people from the

campus as freshman within 6 to 9 months

they would get their friends as well who

are probably working elsewhere and not

really so happy so it kind of build that

you know ecosystem which you can always

dip into and a lot of use cases now for

other to refer to right so they have but

it has its pitfalls the real big Pitfall

is that you have to be very patient in

the first two years it will not give you

any output in the first two years so

what does it need you to do in the first

two years the guys who are actually at

the top have to go down and work on

behalf of those guys so that they can

one learn and also substitute for the

work that you expect out of them so I

think that that is a big deal but the

fly will comes into place after a while

coule right three years I I say but huge

Roi after that huge Roi after that yeah

understood and I think the other thing

rupali that we've done right uh also

learned over a period of time not doing

it right in the beginning but then we've

kind of zeroed down saying that hey this

is very important is that you have

whatever promises you make on campus you

have to keep them keep them like for

example if you go to campus and say that

hey you know what you'll be a pnl lead

in a three-year time frame there have to

be people from the same campus who done

that who've done that who've been there

and and stuff like that so I living up

to the promise is something which is

very important you know and frankly it's

not like we've always been successful at

that I think in our in initial two or

three batches we were really successful

and then we had a 2 to threee highest

when we didn't see any success and then

now then we have completely refreshed

back into uh motion again but assuming

you've done you know you've given them

chance sales Nikia F Opia

opika I'm assuming after all this cycle

there would still be cases where it

doesn't work out oh yeah very much see

typically retention in a batch uh my

sense is between 60 to 70% after a year

but that 60 to 70% after a year turns

turns out to be 60 to 70% even after 2

years so the guys very high after that

yes not only the stickiness from our

side is very high but also from their

side they do very well so they also gain

from the fact that they've been around

for a year got it got it very

interesting you know we should write a

you know you you should come up with

this Playbook

we just a simple one it just needs

patience no it he does I think that's

what start off lack that initial time

they just want results very very quickly

right we were on the wrong side of 30 or

the right side of 30 when we started and

that's where the solution looks very um

Unbecoming of the stage because you know

I'm thinking at that stage you were you

guys want needed fast solution for right

still you guys invested in this but to

be honest with you rupari at that time

we didn't have an option also the

necessity came from the fact that you

know most of our business actually

happens in tier two locations and if you

really take people who are from the

industry they would like to be in metros

they would like to be in the hometowns

they like to be where they're already

rooted correct because they would have

children and stuff like that so it was

more necessity and more options for

opportunities and yes got it understood

sir I have a couple of rabbit Fires for

you what's your management style um

leading by example

okay um let go or level up uh let go and

are you okay okay to have some of these

conversations directly how do you do

always so you take the bandid off in one

shot or yeah one shot got it deal

breaker question that you ask in any

interview uh deal breaker question that

I ask is U um what can you give to the

company very intense right now yes and

most people come up with all kinds of

stuff right it ranges from um saying

that um I'll give all the money that I

have in my pocket right now knowing that

we are commercial in Outlook to and is

there the right answer I don't know it's

the passion says that right because the

moment he says that I'll give you all

the money in my pocket I says yeah do it

seriously some people have actually laid

it on the wonderful to saying that you

know I'll get my U cousins my uh my um

uncles to also work for you for free

I've heard that as well this one I

really like the first time I I heard it

I told him that hey tell your friends

that is a good answer very nice very

nice high on skill but low on intent

high on skill but low on intent but um

um low on scale um right but very high

on intent and energy which one you'll

pick uh none none neither neither yeah

yeah yeah okay because if you're making

the tradeoff you're not a good recruiter

yeah you have to find out at least

somebody who's average on both because

anything so that you can work on one so

then you can work on one yeah right if

one is so dinged on one you just can't

get him up anyway yes so I have one

question that you and I have discussed a

while for a while um is this is my last

question I promise asish I remember when

my first few years First Years in Matrix

right I was in awe with what you would

write your Sunday afternoon content in

itself can be you write it in maybe I

read it around afternoon time but it's

like religiously you write to the tea

every Sunday

it can be a master class in itself it

also gives people a chance to not only

understand about the business you're

building but also sneak peek into the

culture that you have right different

you know um and and you have also guided

me many time when I said you know how do

you do it and I want to write and I'm

skeptical and I remember you telling

me just put put it down there but now

because you are also a Founder you

represent you're like the face of right

business right um do you believe a

company benefits When a Founder has a

larger than life personality or is f you

know vocal about his or her perspective

on social media because it can backfire

also too many of time yeah yeah it can

backfire but I my strong belief is that

uh not just the founder but almost

everybody associated with the company

needs to have a larger than life uh

Persona because frankly at the early

stage of the company the company's image

is a is is a summation of everybody

who's literally online and uh whatever

little you can do um assuming that you

do it well uh can only add to the image

of the company because I I'll give you

some examples right I think true to us

also true to everyone else if a company

posts an article okay um and if you

compare that with a Founder who posts

the same article the I think the viewers

are long 10 to 20x totally right so you

have more leadership that way also more

important what happens is people connect

more with individuals and hence whatever

the individual rights they kind of at

the back end connect to the uh company

as well and that's marketing for free

right so so if the company does it I

think uh the social media sites will

also chase them more for money but if

the individual does it they will think

that he's doing it for free and I think

also it helps you attract the right kind

of people yes for different reasons

maybe if somebody has a BD that's why

you started I mean it was free it was a

free recruitment tool yeah yeah because

I I remember we thinking about it in the

initial days as to whether we should use

a recruiter either in-house or outside

and then we realize hey that costs so

why don't we just start writing and in

every article we end up with saying that

you know hey this is how it happens at

our business yeah and people will just

send their resumes and it actually

happened that way right so so it was a

free I do tell to all our new Founders

right that they should because I do

believe ASI that you can't Outsource

that you know somebody a recruiter or

anybody else can do it for you some

extent but I think nobody else can

represent your firm better than you U

out there right in in all hestness but I

think as you grow rupali it is more

important that everybody else in the

company fix up like for example if you

look at us I've been pushing everyone

for like close to 3 to four years now

there are active probably three to four

other writers as well it takes a long

time for somebody to make that jump but

once they made the jump they stay there

right so it has to be a group of people

it can't be just the point no you've

done you have converted me for sure I

was you know some outside the yeah sorry

outside the company right I remember my

first conversation with you was around

this this yeah um my last question again

sorry a lot of last

questions what is in ulala

company so so to be very honest with you

I have always been you know a big

proponent of making money right and I

was a big proponent of making money even

when it was not The Fad around today

it's The Fad everybody wants to make

money

right um so so people used to call me uh

a laala and used to um say that our

business is like a laa company so um um

somebody wrote a pretty long article

about it and I you know I'm pretty sure

I almost read it and then I thought you

know what is the right way to respond to

it and I got like close to hundreds of

messages right on just LinkedIn saying

that hey we're waiting for your respond

why don't you respond why don't you

respond so I came up with this concept

of saying that hey we are laa but the

reality is over a period of time we've

grown so much over the last s years that

we've added o to it so we are laala but

we've added o so we are U laa and and is

sorry o is laa I knowa you know it's

just just okay understood

it'sa you

know fantasy so we are everybody's

fantasy right now but still two3 aala

because four out of six words of aala is

still alala so that was the no but I

must confessed what an elegant respon I

think it you know apart from that

response bit I think that's we some

somewhere everybody expected you to do

it you you know because you are active

and we thought you but you know what

stood to me was how your team ried

towards it right your team the entire

ofb ecosystem Oxo ecosystem sharing

commenting right was it stuck actually

we made a few posters it did it did and

I could you know I and I think going

through the comments was amazing to

understand you know because this were

your employees telling and sharing lot

of them were ex employees as well is it

no no amazing that was great and I hear

you doing you you're doing an article SO

waiting for that but now this has been

amazing Ashi thank you so much for

sharing your journey um you know um I

think I've been always a big fan of you

know even when you join Matrix right you

hear stories any place you join you hear

stories of Once Upon a Time you

definitely are the Once Upon a Time

stories that we still hear but uh but

you know I I I think being part of

Matrix has allowed me to know you learn

from you so I'm very excited and I I'm

hoping this um experience would be you

know a lot of Founders can new Founders

can learn from it um so thank you and U

looking forward to where the ulala

company to the next level thank you so

much thank you for the kind words and

good luck with the show going ahead no

thank you looking

forward