The Science of Attraction: Why You’ve Not Met Someone - Matthew Hussey (Bonus Episode)

Summary

In this episode of 'Deep Dive,' the host discusses modern dating complexities with relationship expert Matthew Hussey. They explore the four stages of attraction, common dating mistakes, and practical advice for building connections. Hussey emphasizes the importance of understanding chemistry, perceived value, challenge, and compatibility in relationships. The conversation delves into maintaining desire in long-term relationships, highlighting the balance between love and desire, and the necessity of adapting to sustain attraction.

Takeaways

• 😀 The modern dating landscape is complex, with fewer organic meetings and an increased reliance on dating apps, leading to a paradox of choice and challenges in standing out online.
• 🔍 Matthew Hussey, a dating and relationship expert, emphasizes the importance of understanding the four stages of attraction: chemistry, perceived value, perceived challenge, and connection to build lasting relationships.
• 💡 Chemistry isn't just a mystical experience; it can be influenced by how we present ourselves, our movements, and the ability to create tension.
• 🏆 Perceived value in a relationship is about what we bring to the table, such as personality traits, life achievements, and social circles.
• 💰 Perceived challenge isn't about being 'hard to get,' but about ensuring that our value as a potential partner is something that needs to be earned through genuine engagement and commitment.
• 🤔 The importance of not rushing to judgment based on a single date or interaction, as it's crucial to understand the person beyond the initial charm or charisma.
• 🔗 The concept of 'unique pairing' in attraction, where two distinct yet complementary qualities in a person create a more profound appeal.
• 💌 The 'handkerchief' metaphor for modern dating suggests that small acts of service, like asking for a favor, can be an effective way to initiate conversation and connection.
• 🤝 The 'two-hit theory' encourages being approachable and engaging in small interactions with multiple people, which can lead to more organic and less pressured connections.
• 👫 Long-term relationships require balancing love and desire, with the understanding that desire often exists in the space between two people, and love builds as they get closer.
• 📚 For sustaining desire in a relationship, it's essential to listen to your partner's needs and pay attention to what stokes their feelings of love and attraction.

Q & A

What is the podcast 'Deep Dive' about and who hosts it?

The podcast 'Deep Dive' is a weekly show where the host engages in conversations with authors, entrepreneurs, academics, experts, creators, and other inspiring individuals to understand their journeys and the strategies and tools they use to build a life they love.

How has modern dating evolved compared to the past, according to the podcast?

Modern dating has become more complex due to factors such as the prevalence of online dating, the decline of in-person events, and the paradox of choice where everyone seems just a swipe away. This contrasts with the past where choices were fewer and relationships were often formed through more organic means, such as marrying a neighbor or someone from the local community.

What are the four stages of attraction as discussed in the podcast?

The four stages of attraction mentioned in the podcast are chemistry, perceived value, perceived challenge, and connection. These stages can help individuals understand and self-diagnose potential issues in their relationships.

Why is 'perceived challenge' important in maintaining attraction, and what does it entail?

Perceived challenge is important because it adds an element of desirability and intrigue to a relationship. It does not mean being 'hard to get' but rather ensuring that your value has a 'price' and must be earned by the other person through genuine actions and respect.

What is the 'handkerchief' metaphor used by Matthew Hussey, and what does it signify?

The 'handkerchief' metaphor is used by Matthew Hussey to illustrate a subtle way for women to initiate interactions with men. It refers to an old-fashioned practice where a woman would 'accidentally' drop a handkerchief to give a man an opportunity to approach her, thus allowing her to be proactive in a socially acceptable manner.

How does Matthew Hussey define 'unique pairing' in the context of attraction?

A 'unique pairing' in the context of attraction is when two distinct qualities that are both attractive on their own come together in one person, creating a 3D effect that is mesmerizing. For example, someone who is sexy and also goofy can create a unique pairing that is more attractive than the sum of its parts.

What is the 'two-hit theory' mentioned in the podcast, and how can it be applied in social situations?

The 'two-hit theory' suggests that when entering a social environment, one should engage in small interactions with multiple people (the first hit). These interactions make it easier to have more in-depth conversations later (the second hit) because the initial contact has already established a level of approachability and openness.

What mistakes do people often make while dating, as discussed in the podcast?

Some common dating mistakes discussed include overvaluing initial chemistry, misjudging a person's character based on superficial traits, and not being open to different types of people who may not fit the usual 'type'. Additionally, people often overlook the importance of compatibility in a relationship.

How does the podcast address the issue of 'nice guys' and the common stereotype associated with them?

The podcast challenges the stereotype of 'nice guys' by suggesting that labeling someone as 'nice' can be misleading and may prevent individuals from exploring potential relationships with people who may not initially seem exciting or attractive but could offer a deeper connection.

What advice does Matthew Hussey give for maintaining long-term desire in a relationship?

Matthew Hussey advises paying attention to the moments that stoke desire in your partner and replicating those in the future. He also emphasizes the importance of listening to your partner's needs and giving them what they require to feel loved and desired, even if it's different from what you personally crave.

What is the role of 'compatibility' in a successful relationship according to the podcast?

Compatibility is crucial for a successful relationship as it ensures that both partners want to live the same kind of life and have aligned values. Without compatibility, even strong admiration, connection, and commitment can lead to a relationship that is not fulfilling or sustainable.

Outlines

00:00

🎙️ Introduction to the Podcast and Modern Dating Challenges

The host opens the podcast by expressing excitement about engaging with various inspiring individuals. The discussion shifts to modern dating, noting its complexities compared to previous generations where choices were fewer but relationships were more straightforward. Today, dating apps and online interactions introduce challenges like standing out on a small screen and dealing with the paradox of choice. The host mentions Matthew Hussey, a dating and relationship expert, who will provide insights into navigating these issues.

05:01

💑 Matthew Hussey's Background and Approach to Dating Advice

This paragraph delves into Matthew Hussey's journey from public speaking to becoming a renowned dating and relationship coach. It highlights his initial setbacks, such as being rejected by Dale Carnegie's office, and his eventual success in helping women with dating advice. Hussey's perspective as a male advisor in a predominantly female field is emphasized, stressing the value of a man's viewpoint in bridging communication gaps between men and women.

10:02

🧲 The Four Stages of Attraction According to Matthew Hussey

The conversation with Matthew Hussey explores the concept of attraction, breaking it down into four distinct phases: chemistry, perceived value, perceived challenge, and connection. Each component is discussed, highlighting how they contribute to building attraction. The importance of not rushing into assessments and maintaining a balance between the components is stressed, as well as the role of chemistry in attraction.

15:04

🔄 The Importance of Balance in Attraction and Relationship Stages

The paragraph discusses the pitfalls of misjudging the importance of different stages in a relationship. It warns against placing too much value on the initial stages of attraction and chemistry, which can lead to overlooking long-term compatibility. The four stages of a relationship—admiration, connection, commitment, and compatibility—are outlined, emphasizing the necessity of a mutual 'yes' to progress through these stages.

20:06

🚫 Understanding Common Dating Mistakes and the Role of Projection

Here, the host and Matthew Hussey address common dating mistakes, such as focusing too much on someone's charm or success without considering their potential as a partner. The discussion touches on the importance of not projecting our desires or insecurities onto potential partners and the dangers of ignoring the stages of a relationship.

25:06

🤔 Attraction as a Choice and the Influence of Past Experiences

This section delves into the nature of attraction, questioning whether it's a choice or a result of our past experiences. It explores the idea that we may be drawn to what we know, even if it's not beneficial, and the importance of being open to different types of people. The conversation also touches on the influence of social proof and the need to be aware of our own biases and patterns in attraction.

30:07

🎭 The Concept of Unique Pairing in Attraction

The paragraph introduces the concept of unique pairing in attraction, where two contrasting yet attractive qualities in a person create a more profound appeal. It discusses the importance of not being one-dimensional and the risks of doubling down on a single strength to the point where it becomes a weakness, using the analogy of being an album with diverse songs rather than a single hit.

35:08

📚 Matthew Hussey's Dating Advice and the 'Handkerchief' Metaphor

The host shares Matthew Hussey's dating advice, focusing on the metaphor of the 'handkerchief' as a way for women to initiate contact subtly. It discusses the importance of being approachable and the benefits of small acts of service in sparking connections. The advice aims to give women more proactive tools in their dating lives, without feeling like they're going against traditional norms.

40:08

🤝 The 'Two-Hit' Theory for Approachability and Initiating Conversations

This section introduces the 'two-hit' theory, which emphasizes the importance of being approachable and engaging in small interactions with multiple people in a social setting. The theory suggests that these initial interactions can lead to more organic and natural conversations later on, reducing the pressure and nervousness often associated with approaching someone attractive.

45:10

💏 Long-Term Relationships, Desire, and the Honeymoon Phase

The final paragraph explores the dynamics of long-term relationships, focusing on the distinction between love and desire. It discusses the honeymoon phase and the challenges of maintaining desire in a relationship where love has developed. The importance of understanding and meeting each other's needs for both love and desire is highlighted, as well as the value of listening to one's partner.

Keywords

💡Attraction

Attraction in the context of the video refers to the process of being drawn towards someone romantically or sexually. It is a fundamental aspect of dating and relationships. The video discusses the four stages of attraction: chemistry, perceived value, perceived challenge, and connection. For example, Matthew Hussey explains that attraction is not just a mystical occurrence but can be broken down into these distinct phases, which can help individuals understand and potentially improve their romantic interactions.

💡Perceived Value

Perceived value is the worth or importance that individuals believe they hold in a potential partner's eyes. In the video, it is one of the four components of attraction. It encompasses qualities such as personality, skills, lifestyle, and social circle that contribute to one's attractiveness as a potential partner. The script mentions that perceived value can manifest in various ways, including how one's friends and family are perceived, indicating the multifaceted nature of what makes someone valuable in a relationship.

💡Perceived Challenge

Perceived challenge is the notion that there is an element of difficulty or effort required to 'win' someone's affection or to maintain their interest. It is highlighted in the video as a critical component for sustaining attraction. The script discusses how perceived challenge is not about playing games but about ensuring that one's value is not given away too easily, thus maintaining a sense of intrigue and desirability in a relationship.

💡Chemistry

Chemistry is used in the video to describe the intangible connection or spark between two people that can indicate potential for a deeper relationship. It is part of the initial attraction and is influenced by factors such as physical appearance, how one carries themselves, and non-verbal cues. The script gives examples of how chemistry can be affected by someone's movement and expressions, which can change how attractive a person appears in person compared to in photos.

💡Compatibility

Compatibility in the video is the degree to which two people are well-suited for a long-term relationship. It goes beyond initial attraction and involves shared values, lifestyles, and expectations. The script emphasizes that even with admiration, connection, and commitment, a relationship may fail without compatibility, as it is the foundation for a sustainable partnership.

💡Dating Apps

Dating apps are digital platforms that facilitate meeting and connecting with potential romantic partners. The video discusses the impact of dating apps on modern dating, including the increased complexity of choosing a partner and the challenges of making a good impression in a limited digital space. The script mentions how dating apps have changed the dynamics of meeting partners, with more reliance on online interactions.

💡Paradox of Choice

The Paradox of Choice is a concept that suggests having too many options can lead to decision-making difficulties and dissatisfaction. In the context of the video, it refers to the overwhelming number of potential partners available on dating apps, which can make it harder to choose and commit to one person. The script discusses how this paradox can affect users' feelings of self-worth and satisfaction with dating experiences.

💡Projection

Projection in the video is the act of attributing one's own feelings, beliefs, or desires onto another person, particularly in the context of romantic interest. It is mentioned as a potential pitfall in dating where one might assume a connection or compatibility based on limited information, leading to unrealistic expectations. The script warns against the dangers of projection, advising daters to base their assessments on actual interactions rather than assumptions.

💡Unique Pairing

Unique pairing is a concept introduced in the video to describe the combination of two distinct and attractive qualities in one person, creating a more compelling and multi-dimensional appeal. The script uses the example of someone who is both sexy and goofy to illustrate how such pairings can lead to a more engaging and attractive personality in a potential partner.

💡Honeymoon Phase

The honeymoon phase is a term used in the video to describe the initial period of a relationship characterized by intense feelings of love, desire, and excitement. It is often followed by a more stable and realistic phase of the relationship. The script discusses the importance of recognizing and understanding what stokes desire in a partner during this phase and how to potentially sustain those feelings in the long term.

💡Two-Hit Theory

Two-Hit Theory is a concept presented in the video to improve approachability and social interactions in dating contexts. It involves making small, non-threatening interactions with multiple people in a social setting, which can make one more approachable and open to further conversations. The script explains that this approach can reduce nervousness and increase the likelihood of meaningful connections.

Highlights

The modern dating world is complex, with fewer organic meetings and a reliance on dating apps which come with their own set of challenges.

The paradox of choice in dating apps leads to a small percentage of users receiving the majority of attention, leaving others feeling overlooked.

Social media contributes to feelings of envy and inadequacy by showcasing unattainable lifestyles.

Matthew Hussey's journey from public speaking to becoming a renowned dating and relationship expert.

Hussey's unique perspective as a male dating coach offering advice to women, acknowledging the male viewpoint in dating.

Attraction is not mystical but can be broken down into four phases: chemistry, perceived value, perceived challenge, and connection.

Chemistry is influenced by physical appearance, movement, and the ability to create tension.

Perceived value in dating is about what one brings to the table, including personality and life achievements.

Perceived challenge is key to sustainability in a relationship, not just playing 'hard to get'.

The importance of not overvaluing someone too quickly based on a single interaction or date.

Understanding the four stages of a relationship: admiration, connection, commitment, and compatibility.

The danger of mistaking intense chemistry for a solid foundation of a relationship.

The concept of 'unique pairing' in attraction, where two distinct qualities create a 3D effect of interest.

The importance of not being just one 'great song' but an 'album' with diverse qualities in a relationship.

The 'handkerchief' metaphor for women to initiate interactions without going against traditional dating norms.

Practical advice on how to approach someone you're interested in by asking for a small favor.

The 'two-hit theory' for being approachable and creating opportunities for natural conversations.

The distinction between love and desire in long-term relationships and the importance of maintaining both.

The honeymoon phase as a period of intense desire and the importance of recognizing what sustains desire in a relationship.

The skill of creating and maintaining love and long-lasting relationships is developable and shouldn't be left to chance.

Transcripts

hey friends and welcome back to Deep

dive the weekly podcast where every week

it's my immense pleasure to sit down

with authors entrepreneurs academics

experts creators and other inspiring

people and we find out how they got to

where they are and the strategies and

tools that we can learn from them to

help build a life that we love now

navigating the world of modern dating is

actually pretty hard these days back in

our parents generation there wasn't a

lot of choice but the fact that there

wasn't a lot of choice meant that it was

actually a lot easier to find love

because you would just marry the person

who owns the plot of land next door or

their daughter or their son or whatever

the case might be but nowadays things

are a little bit more complicated we are

much less likely to meet our potential

Partners organically and the sort of

decline of in real life events is very

much a thing and to counteract that we

are way more likely to meet our partners

online through dating apps or websites

and this comes with a whole bunch of

complicating factors like how do we best

stand out on a six-inch iPhone screen

and how do we take the right photos and

how do we come across in a way that like

is a bit quirky but not too quirky and

all of these different things that our

grandparents generation didn't even

really have to think about and added to

that we have the whole Paradox of choice

situation going on we where everyone is

just a swipe away and therefore you know

all of the stats around dating app users

show that basically the top one or two

percent of people get like 90 of the

swipes and that leaves the rest of us

feeling a bit sad that we're not getting

any swipes on dating apps and on top of

that we have this whole thing around

comparisons so apps like Instagram and

Tick Tock and all that kind of stuff

showcasing us Lifestyles that we don't

have or encouraging the feeling of envy

and jealousy and that feeling that we're

not quite good enough so we are going to

be talking about all that in this

episode of Deep dive where I had a very

lovely chat with Matthew Hussey now

Matthew is a dating and relationships

expert and coach and over the last 10

plus years he has helped millions of

people find love and build and maintain

strong relationships through his book

through his content through his

workshops his YouTube channel has nearly

3 million subscribers and his book get

the guy is in New York Times bestseller

now Matthew's Journey started out in

public speaking when he was a teenager

Matthew went to a Tony Robbins event in

London and he realized that the process

of communicating to a live audience was

something that he felt motivated and

inspired to do and then you know as

everyone does he had a few bumps in the

road he tried to get a job at Dale

Carnegie's office and he got rejected

but he took the rejection on his chin

and he decided to try and become a

public speaker and then after doing a

few public speaking gigs around London

he really ended up finding his niche in

helping women navigate the world of

dating so he's a guy who gives dating

advice for women and his stuff broadly

helps women become more confident and

become better in their interactions and

dealings with men and hopefully helps

build better relationships overall now

it's very understandable that you might

be thinking if you have not yet come

across Matthew Hussey's work before and

especially if you're a woman why should

I as a woman be taking dating advice

from a guy and one thing I really like

about Matthew is that he fully

acknowledges that this is a thing there

are plenty of women out there giving

dating and dating advice for women but

there are not that many men giving

dating advice for women and so it's just

really a different perspective from the

side of the guy and it's kind of a good

way to bridge the communication and

expectation gap between men and women

anyway in this episode we're going to

learn about firstly the four stages of

Attraction secondly we're going to talk

about mistakes that we make while dating

thirdly we're going to go over some

practical dating advice and fourthly

we're going to be talking about the

secret to long-lasting desire now one of

the first things that Matthew and I

talked about is how attraction works

most of us tend to think of Attraction

as this magical thing that just happens

and you hear all these phrases like I

felt a spark and we had great chemistry

and we just hit it off that speaks to

this almost mystical nature of what

attraction really is but if we actually

break it down and look at the evidence

that people have looked at around what

actually builds attraction then

Matthew's going to talk about how it's

actually split up into four distinct

phases

I talk about the

um

there being a kind of a formula and I

don't mean this crudely I I just mean

there are certain components to deep and

Lasting attraction

you have chemistry

um

perceived value

perceived challenge

and connection

the reason I like this model is because

when you look at this you can usually

see you can sort of self-diagnose

where something may be going wrong

chemistry is interesting because there's

certain there's a certain intangible

there and an unknown there and not we

certainly can't control all of it but we

can control some of it you know with the

way the way that we look how well we

take care of ourselves the way we move

importantly is a big factor in chemistry

which is why you can sometimes see

someone in photos and think they're

really attractive and then you meet them

in real life and you kind of go Oh weird

I don't feel the same way it's also why

you can get back from a date and and say

oh my God I just had this amazing date

with this incredibly hot person and if

you show pictures of that person to your

friends they're like

okay yeah

I guess you know because you you were

there yeah you were there you saw how

they move how they smile how they

gesture how they their micro Expressions

so there's certainly things we can do to

affect chemistry uh and obviously you

can create tension too which is a big

factor in chemistry in chemistry then

there's perceived value and perceived

value is all these things that that we

are and do that bring value to the table

it might be our personality uh it might

be the things that we're good at in life

it might be our life the life that we've

built

um can sometimes be our friends and

family you know sometimes you meet

someone's friends and family and you go

whoa this is what a life this is to come

into they have an amazing group of

people around them so much love so much

so there's a lot of ways for perceived

value to to manifest itself then there's

perceived challenge

and the interesting thing about

perceived value is it goes down

regardless of how many things are in

that category

if there's no perceived Challenge

and perceived challenge is not uh

the kind of I don't know a typical way

of thinking about it I guess would be

like hard to get

it's not that's a cheap way to create

challenge because the problem with hard

to get is you can't keep it up forever

the moment you are got yeah

if someone's if your attraction was

built around the getting then you can't

sustain it

but if

the the real beautiful sustainable way

to create challenge is for there to be

uh for your value to have a price

okay what do you mean

that that your value doesn't come for

free your value is something that has to

be earned

by the someone showing up in the way

you're prepared to show up by someone

being prepared to make the kind of

sacrifices you're prepared to make for

someone

um by someone giving to you on a level

that you're willing to give respecting

you on a level that that you respect

them

um

and also not giving someone too much

credit too quickly

that's a a big problem when we come from

a needy place when we come from a place

of insecurity we start giving people

credit they don't deserve yet

I just met them I just had the most

amazing date with the most amazing

person oh my God they're incredible

based on what

based on how on what basis what

information could you have possibly got

on one date

that enables you to say this

you

you have been seduced by a kind of charm

Charisma maybe the fact that you did

something really fun on the day the fact

that they made you laugh a lot the fact

that they told stories about their past

that made them relatable or sympathetic

or seem really authentic all of that is

great I'm not I'm not saying be

inherently suspicious I'm saying

you don't know yeah

you don't know so on what basis are you

giving them all of this value already

based on projection

and based on insecurity this immediate

putting them on a pedestal and putting

yourself down here and when someone

smells that

they don't see an equal anymore

and that's that's what I mean when I say

challenge I don't mean artificially

constructing

games or Hoops for people to jump

through

I mean that the the criteria you have

for someone has to be real yeah it has

to be real like

it's you and I met today for the first

time

really enjoying our conversation hope

you are too absolutely you know but we

don't know each other yet as friends you

don't know if I'd be reliable if you

needed something you don't know if I

would show up to support you if

something went wrong in your life you

don't know you don't know any of that

so

you know it would be dangerous to go

away and make it an assessment on how

great of a friend I would be yep based

on this exchange it what what you would

hope in an organic situation is that you

and I go

this was really really fun we got on

really well this was a great

conversation I would like to get to know

this guy better that would be like it'd

be really cool if we could hang out

outside of the podcast

but it's not I have to be friends with

with Ali you know like we I have to

because he's a he's an amazing guy you

know like yeah that's that now that's

projection that's dangerous because I'm

basing that on the fact that you're

clearly outwardly a very impressive

human and what you've achieved what

you've done is very impressive and you

seem to have had a really amazing kind

of impact on a lot of people and those

are all amazing things those are amazing

things in their own right

it's not about devaluing those

but

I have no idea what your value would be

as a friend

until we try being friends

and the mistake people make in dating

commonly

is they look at someone's

stats

how Charming were they how charismatic

were they how successful are they

um you know where are they in their life

what kind of person do they seem to be

but none of that exists in relation to

to you

that's all just you admiring

what this person has or is

but none of it says this person's going

to be a great boyfriend or a great

girlfriend none of it says they're going

to be loyal none of it says they're

going to be reliable none of it says

they're going to be a great teammate all

it says is this person seems on these

metrics

to be attractive and in any relationship

you have to go through for for in terms

of importance you have to go through

four stages

one is admiration

that's just where I can see someone and

admire them from either up close or far

wow this person's pretty impressive and

attractive not very important in the

stages not important necessary but not

important yep

then there's a connection

or chemistry you both you need you know

that's the next stage of do we feel

connected to each other and is there a

kind of chemistry all right now it's

slightly more important because now it

becomes Mutual yeah now it's not just me

admiring you it's oh there's something

between us yeah

not important

because necessary yeah but not important

how many people have ruined their lives

over the fact that they had chemistry

with someone even when that person was a

terrible partner a terrible person to

base their their decisions on

the next stage is a commitment

okay I admire you we have mutual

chemistry and connection and we're both

actually saying yes to each other I deal

with people every day where they have

this stage but that person isn't saying

yes

they're saying yeah I'd like to see you

this Friday

at 11 o'clock

but they're not saying yes to an actual

relationship

so you need commitment to go to the next

stage of importance but many people are

treating something like it has total

importance even though they're only at

the second stage so you need a yes you

need commitment

now you would say if you've got that

that's the most important thing you can

have you've got someone you admire

you've got someone you have a connection

with in chemistry and you've got someone

who is committed

it would seem like that was everything

but that kind of idea is it Virgil love

conquers all love does not conquer all

two people saying yes to each other

doesn't

make for a long-term relationship you

also have to have the fourth stage of

importance which is compatibility

are you actually compatible because if

you're not

you can say yes I want to be with you

yes I'm committed

but that lack of compatibility will show

up in ways that will make both of you

miserable well what do you mean by

compatibility it could be anything it

could be uh my idea of a good time is

staying home watching movies and yours

is constantly traveling around the world

it could be your idea of a good time is

going out and drinking and doing drugs

and I don't want to live that life and

we've both said yes to each other

but

that you know our idea of what is a good

life is completely different or our idea

of loyalty is completely different your

idea of loyalty is that I don't have sex

with anyone my idea of loyalty is that

you don't emotionally cheat on me

in the texts you send yeah you know that

we've both said yes to each other we

have admiration connection commitment

and yet I am miserable because of what

your definition of loyalty is

so compatibility is do we both want to

live the same kind of life and and do

our values line up and do we both have

the same idea two people can say I value

kindness but we can have very different

standards

for what kindness actually means

so

without that stage so many things go

wrong my

what what I mean to say with all of this

is that

we lose our value in dating

when we stop paying attention

to the appropriate level of importance

at different stages

if you

take stage two

I found someone I have a connection with

as the be-all Endor and the thing that

you

martyr yourself in service of

you lose all your value

you you are now the person who spends a

lifetime uh accepting really poor

treatment from someone because every

time you see them it's amazing you don't

understand when we're together it's so

good it's so incredible they're so there

for me that the sex is amazing the

chemistry is amazing we have such

amazing conversations

what's the problem I haven't heard from

them in two weeks

but Matt you don't understand the

connection is incredible you don't know

like this this is really important to me

why

why because you you have miscalculated

the value of stage two and when you do

that you lose your value because someone

realizes your value what you're willing

to give has no price

it's free it does not need to be earned

so your perceived challenge

drops and when you're perceived when

there's no challenge to you when someone

realizes your value has no price

then you lose respect and you and you

end up losing real value as a result

which is crazy but I know it all sounds

kind of heady but it

you know it really this stuff is real

whether you whether when someone there

will be people listening to this

guarantee there'll be someone in the

comments

who says oh does it all need to be so

difficult can't you just be yourself and

the answer is no

because you may not be doing the things

that make you confident or that show

your real value you shouldn't be uh

someone you're not

but people Define being themselves as

holding on to all of their the things

that make them make bad decisions or

that make them uh their trauma or the

things that they haven't healed or the

things that make them chase after

someone who will ruin their life that's

not being yourself that's that's not

healing that's not doing the things that

are necessary for you to attract a much

more quality version of connection and

love in your life so the reason that

I've geeked out on all of this stuff is

because

the consequences of ignoring what I'm

saying are a life of suffering and I

have watched it over and over again I

have watched women get to their 40s

where they just gave up 10 years of

their life to a guy that was never

giving them what they wanted was never

on the same path as them but they

ignored it because they valued the

connection so much

well they valued the chemistry so much

or both and now their window for having

children of Their Own

has has gone

and the grief that comes after that is

profound Okay so we've talked about the

four components of Attraction let's now

go into some of the mistakes that we

make while dating

one thing I've often heard and I don't

know I don't know to what extent this is

just a stereotype or if it's actually

actually a thing

um

the the Trope of women saying something

like you know I know I want to marry Mr

Wright but I find myself attracted to Mr

exciting and

I get I guess it's a situation that

you've dealt with I I'm I'm kind of

guessing but and and I guess I want to

lead lead from that into the question of

to what extent is attraction a choice

and how much like if for example I find

myself attracted to the sort of person

who is not good for me and whatever

whatever that might look like can I

nudge my deep core into being attracted

to the nice guy or the whatever or is it

like uh like what's what what's going on

there what a fantastic question

um

I think that to an extent we Chase what

we know hmm

and sometimes being attracted to

something other than what we know or has

historically have been attracted to is

um a matter of curiosity

of actually opening ourselves up to a

different kind of person to a different

kind of situation and exploring it for

all it is we tend to be very we make up

our minds quite quickly about things

even labeling someone a nice person the

the you know Elaine the button would say

they're not that nice

do you know nice is a it's a kind of a

mask they could be as freaky as the

freakiest person you've ever met when it

comes down to it you know this this idea

of labeling someone a nice person is um

or labeling someone the bad boy why what

because they didn't call you for three

days that makes them a bad boy

you know but because they were a bit of

a jerk to the to someone like they're

the bad boy like what do you

what is that what is that label

do you think they're the bad boy all of

the time like you think they're that

person 24 hours a day of course they're

not but based on this label you've given

them they're exciting based on this

label you've given this person they're

boring so I think that yes of course

there is a sense of there's a kind of

reflexive attraction that we can have

for people but I think that's a

sometimes a lack of imagination and a

lack of curiosity if you took time to

actually get to know

somebody I'm not saying you go on a date

with someone where there's absolutely

zero chemistry and you just keep hitting

and hoping yeah and going oh I'll see

them again because maybe one day

chemistry could come about no I don't I

don't believe that

but

I always think if if you feel like some

some kind of interesting tickle in a

direction that you haven't felt it

before and you go well this isn't

normally my type or this isn't normally

my personal this isn't I feel something

follow that

give that chance because that might

actually lead you somewhere you've never

been before and where you've never been

before might be the answer

I think that we we prejudge a lot we

judge what we're supposed to have what

we think our friends and family would

would validate yeah you know oh he's

really good looking well done yeah you

know and you so you kind of start

looking for that even though you might

find that an attraction with this person

that doesn't look like that

you feel validated by the fact that

other people are

are giving you the the social proof

around that person so you feel like you

keep and that's by the way it's how

people get themselves in so much trouble

they show off their their partner and

their oh my God he's so tall handsome

and successful look at you good job

and they're miserable at home with this

person but every time they go out and

hear

well he's he's very impressive and they

go oh I should like yeah I should I

should I should be grateful this

person's amazing I should continue to be

grateful you know

so we have to be careful of the outside

conditioning yep

um and we also have to be careful Dr

Romani would and people in her

profession uh psychologists would talk

about the kind of the trauma Bond

that exists when we've been used to you

know a parent that neglected us or that

that was very hot and cold in our lives

and that becomes kind of what we know

and so we get attracted to to that

behavior in others

um and we try and complete a journey

that never felt finished When We Were

Young And it so we also have to be very

careful of what we're labeling

attraction am I labeling this trauma and

this heightened sense of anxiety that I

have around you because you're fickle

and you never make me feel secure am I

labeling that excitement oh I I just

what is it I've got with this person I

and the more they they don't call me the

more I'm like oh they there's something

special about this one why is it why why

are they getting more attractive the

less they try yeah what's going on here

you know we have to really suspect those

things in ourselves

and I think that an another way of

looking at attraction and again I'm not

this I'm not an advocate for don't care

about chemistry care about chemistry but

if you start to lay look at all the

things that would make an incredible

partner

and

and would make you feel secure and at

peace

and if you start valuing kind of a a

real sense of deep peace

over

the kind of drug-fueled high

then you are going to start looking at

people a little differently because

you're not going to over index for

chemistry you may still see it as

necessary it's a necessary ingredient

but I don't have to live my life trying

to find the greatest chemistry of my

life

it's the same way

you know when it comes to food or drugs

there's a feeling of I'm looking for the

greatest High

but the greatest High isn't the thing

that will make you the happiest

sustainably there's different kinds of

energy that make

a person attractive

I pride myself on the fact that if you

come to one of my speeches

you may just laugh and cry in the same

speech

that's that's what I call a unique

pairing in attraction a unique pairing

is when you find two different qualities

that are both attractive

but on their own can be a bit too

dimensional

but when you find them in the same

person

that creates a 3d effect that is

mesmerizing

so if you find someone who's really sexy

but then they can be completely Goofy

and make you laugh

that's a unique pairing you're like whoa

that's normally someone's just sexy

normally someone's just funny and I want

to eat pizza with them but I don't want

to go home with them

now I find someone that is super sexy

and then after the fact I want to spend

all day with them laughing

well we might just have a relationship

you know that's a unique pairing and I

think that a lot of people have

forgotten that they've they've become

addicted

to a certain way of being that has

worked for them yeah if it's being like

hard-headed in business that's worked

for them but the problem is you're what

and usually it starts young right what

we get validated for we keep doing if

you're funny you keep being funny if

you're successful you keep acquiring

more success if you're

if people like you for your looks then

you double down on that we all have

those things that we got validated for

early on and our validations become our

mutations they become the things that we

go we we keep doubling down on and we

become less and less Diversified in our

energy our personality

you can't be you can't be one great song

you have to be an album like every

everyone has to be an album some album

albums have sad songs they have happy

songs they have Up Tempo songs they have

slower songs you you gotta be able to be

all of those things and everyone should

ask themselves men and women alike

am I being an album

or am I being this this one great hit

and hoping that someone sticks around I

had a relationship with someone years

ago uh in my early 20s when or it was

just as I was approaching my 20s and I

remember asking this person why it

months after the relationship ended I

was like why did you not want to be in

it anymore

and she said honestly I said

yes

I guess she said it got boring

she said you were so ambitious

and that was really really attractive at

first

but then it was all you were

it was like you it was all you could

talk about it was all we did was you

just talk about work and whatever it was

never anything else and it was a very

important lesson for me in my life

because I realized that one side of a

unique pairing

can actually Christopher Hitchens uh

once said that

the key in relationships is not allowing

your advantages to negate themselves oh

nice and the in his case what he was

talking about is he was obviously a

formidable debater on the stage

and he did it for a living but

when he was at home

he said when he was in an argument with

his wife

the guy on stage would come out

and really think about how to win this

argument and even after the fact he

would go away and like work on his case

and come back and be like all right I've

got the death blow to your argument

and he realized there was no points for

that in his relationship this was the

mother of his children

he was not trying to win a debate on a

stage

your advantages can negate themselves

it's worth everyone asking what are

what are the strengths I've been riding

on

and where have they become my my

greatest weaknesses okay so those were

some of the mistakes that we've made

let's not talk about some dating advice

and and you know how we talked about

earlier that in our grandparents

generation there were a lot fewer issues

to navigate there were still issues to

navigate when it came to dating and

relationships and marriage but they were

different issues to what we have today

and so this is Matthew discussing some

of the dating advice that applies to the

modern day

I read a book

a very well-known book for women at the

time it was called the rules oh yeah I

read that a couple years ago it's super

interesting very interesting and I you

know I'm I don't

at the time there was some there was

something in there that I read and I

went

that's not true for me

you know there was a there was a

particular sentence or a chapter I can't

remember but it basically said if a guy

isn't coming over to you

then he's he's not interested

they'll forgive me if I misphrased that

but I it got that was the kind of tone

of it and I I remember thinking

everything about my life has said that

the opposite is true Yeah the more

interested I am yeah the less likely

yeah I remember I remember reading that

kind of stuff and thinking oh this is

wow this is you know I literally have

spent my life doing the opposite of that

and that kind of sparked something in me

because I thought

I wonder how many women

are only ever meeting the loudest guy in

the room yeah the one within with the

confidence to approach them whereas the

other 90 of dudes are just like a theme

of written off either as not interested

or as

um

cowards yeah

you know you if you don't and I I would

hear women say stuff like that when you

know if you don't if you don't have the

kind of stones to approach me yeah then

I don't want to know you I don't know if

I yeah I want you anyway and I felt very

rejected by that because I was like

I'm like a good human being you know I

would be great for for someone in a

relationship I have a lot to give I you

know

and the idea that I would be measured

simply on that moment that I decided not

to go and interrupt someone's

conversation and sort of say hey

um based on nothing at all really yeah

other than the fact that I think you're

pretty I'd like to get to know you which

is a problem for men

from the outset is you don't want to be

superficial

you want to form a connection that says

hey I'm not just some creep I'm not just

objectifying people I actually want to

get to know you but the very reason

you've gone over to someone in the first

place is because you find them

attractive that's a hard thing to yeah

it's a big sort of cognitive dissonance

there where you sort of yeah you you

know why have you come over to me yeah

because I have felt like what you did in

the last year at work was really

impressive and you don't know that so

that's for the most part is what you

have to go on is someone's at best you

could say someone's energy if you really

wanted to make it about something that

didn't feel as superficial as looks

something about your style exactly your

aura yeah but but I um

I started to think well

there's actually a lot of really amazing

guys out there

who aren't in the habit of racing up to

Every Woman they're attracted to

how do you get women Meeting those guys

because if you could just solve that

problem you actually are gonna you're

gonna be responsible for a hell of a lot

of relationships

and this was

pre-dating apps so dating apps

solved some of that problem because it

gave people an opportunity to approach

whoever they liked from the safety of a

screen which we know has its problems

too because you could do now all sorts

of things from the safety of being

behind the screen

but I

before dating apps I I figured well if I

can get women to be able to approach a

guy

that they wouldn't normally meet

because he's kind of hanging back and

just

you know doing his thing and he's not

the kind of guy that's running up to

everyone all the time

that will have been to some effect and

so I I started talking about this idea

of the handkerchief and I kind of became

known for the videos

and that was one of the handkerchief for

people metaphor that I started speaking

about very very early on where I it was

my way of telling saying to women

you don't have to

tell yourself this story that if you

approach someone you're somehow going

against your

nature or what's or the way things are

supposed to be if that's even true but

but a lot of women have been conditioned

to believe that the guy is supposed to

make the move and I would say well if

you think that's old-fashioned you don't

know what old-fashioned really is

a hundred years ago a woman might walk

past a guy find him attractive and

inadvertently drop her handkerchief in

front of him he would see it pick it up

and think this is an extraordinary

opportunity to be a man and he'd take it

over to and he'd say Madam you dropped

this and and she would say did I and

they would now have a conversation he

may have felt he was being the proactive

one by ah I'm gonna pick up this

handkerchief and walk it back over to

her what a great opportunity to make a

move

but she had initiated that move she was

the one who made the move she just made

him feel like he was the one making the

move

and that there's some there seemed to be

something very interesting in that to me

the okay regardless of whether you think

women can or can't make the move of

course they can

but it almost what I was getting at is

it doesn't matter

what you believe

if I can give you a way to be proactive

that kind of feels like it's a bit under

the radar then I'm going to get even

people who feel like it's not my job to

make the move I'm even gonna get them

being proactive in ways they haven't

before so I started translating the idea

of the handkerchief into practical

things that women could do and it was

the results were really stunning because

women suddenly felt like

they had choice

that they never had before they were

able to get dates

and exchange numbers with people and

create activity in their love life

and they hadn't been doing that for some

for some people for years

they had never had much opportunity in

their love lives

and all of a sudden not only were they

being proactive and creating opportunity

but they were doing it with people they

were attracted to they would being they

were choosing instead of being chosen

which was very cool so what are the what

are the modern day handkerchiefs on that

topic I so there was a a book that

talked about the

the idea that likability

was affected by our ability to do

someone a favor

um now what the study showed was not the

obvious that if we do someone a favor

they'll like us more is that if we do

someone a favor we like them more

as long as the favor is not onerous it

can't be something difficult but if

we're able to do a small act a small

favor for somebody we actually like them

more

and I started looking at that in the

context of the handkerchief and I

thought that sort of feels like it

applies there especially it's almost

feels more potent in the direction of

man to woman because a lot of guys have

this sort of

you know I want to be needed I want to

feel like I'm able to do something for a

woman I want to feel necessary which is

a big problem right now in dating

because men are feeling less and less

necessary uh and you know everyone's

trying to figure out their place right

now in the world which is I find really

fascinating uh the the kind of rules are

being Rewritten but

what I saw is with the handkerchief is

oh a guy

has an opportunity to kind of perform a

small favor which is giving the

handkerchief back so then I said well

what's an equivalent of of them there's

all sorts of little ways you can ask for

a favor you could say excuse me would

you just watch my jacket for a second

while I use the restroom which could be

done

in a coffee shop in the daytime I just

need to use the restroom when you watch

my jacket for a second

um or you know I always like the start

of the phrase being I could you know

could I get your help with something or

I could really use your help with

something could you watch my jacket for

a second while I go to the bathroom do

you know anywhere good around here for X

what did you order that looks really

good I you know it

these are all very small things but they

give someone the opportunity to do a

small Act of service for us what I also

like about it is it breaks the ice in a

way that doesn't feel like breaking the

ice so when you come back from the

bathroom and you say thanks so much for

for watching my jacket

if you then say how's your day going

anyway

um or you know it looks like that that

book looks really interesting or

whatever

you feel like you're already starting at

30 mile an hour yeah

versus if you were just there and you

turned to someone and went how's your

day going yeah that's a bit weird now

you can do it but

it's a lot of people feel like they need

that like 30 miles an hour to get going

so that became my version for people of

dropping the handkerchief is ask a very

small and easy favor of someone

and then allow that to be the bridge to

a natural conversation nice

yeah that I guess is fairly us somewhat

similar to the whole uh indirect openers

that guys will often use around like hey

you know can you tell me where the

nearest coffee shop is or something like

that I'm oh I'm new here oh where are

you from it's like it's just a way of

prompting a conversation in a way that's

not something like hi I thought you were

pretty and I wanted to talk to you 100

which takes a large amount of well

almost too much confidence

yes and you know there's how you they

can make someone else feel awkward and

there's all sorts of things I I think

for anyone else for anyone out there man

or woman one of the things if if this is

the kind of content you're interested in

that I have found most helpful in my

life

is something I call two hit Theory which

is the idea that

how when you go out into any environment

you have to be someone who's easy to

talk to you focusing on approachability

as as important as focusing on how to

approach

and

what a lot of us do is we go into an

environment we wait until we see someone

that we're attracted to

and then we obsess over what the hell we

would say if we tried to talk to that

person and now we spend the whole

time that we're there becoming more and

more nervous as the stakes get higher

and higher and we start to imagine how

wonderful this person is that we think

is attractive and how lucky the person

is that gets them and all the thing the

qualities about them that we wouldn't

admire if we got to know them they

become something they become this

projection that is so removed

from what we actually know about them

right now which is we just saw an

attractive person that's it

two hit theory is when you go into a

room

the first hit as it were is

small interactions with people

it might literally be like that looks

really good

because someone ordered a plate of food

and you're like that looks great that's

a that's a hit that's an interaction

it might be

um walking up to the bar or the counter

and someone's next to you and you're

like hey how's it going

like a moment you don't remove the

intention there's no intention it

doesn't need to go anywhere it doesn't

need to be a conversation nothing just a

moment

and you do that with more people than

you normally would you have these little

hits

now what to me is really really powerful

about this is such an understated thing

but what's really powerful about it is

most people when they go to any

environment they're either alone or

they're with one or two friends

outside of those one or two friends

who's the person they're most likely

to talk to at some point during the

evening at some point during that event

they're going to talk to the the most

approachable person they're going to

talk to the person they've already had

some small interaction with that became

a kind of green light for a natural or

organic Exchange

if you

if the natural or organic exchange with

someone it's weird to say that you're

their third best friend in the room yeah

[Laughter]

and if you go around

being the third best friend of everybody

who came with two people

just because you are a little bit more

approachable than everybody else

then it's you're gonna find that a some

interactions just gravitate back to you

an hour later or two hours later

B even if you're the one who initiates

you already have that initial

interaction to go by

and the fact that that initial

interaction didn't come with you

like there's always something about

someone coming over to you and talking

to you for the first time and then sort

of standing there and facing you as

they're talking to you and you're almost

unable to process whether you find them

attractive or whether you uh want are

interested in what they have to say

because you're so busy worrying about

are they ever going to leave yeah

so when someone does this to hit theory

that that first thing that first

interaction you have with people

helps them also they've already

recognized that you're not the kind of

person that needs them yep

you left the first time

so now when you speak to someone it the

stakes feel much lower for something

like safety as well like you don't feel

as if yeah they're just not going to

leave they're just going oh God it's

like getting on you know what it's like

you know when you get on a plane and the

person next to you

starts talking to you hmm now maybe

you're in a sociable mood and that's

awesome

or maybe

like me you sort of have a whole bunch

of things that you're kind of excited to

do on that plane one of them being

nothing yeah

and there's a part of you and it's not

the best part of you but there's a part

of you that instantly goes oh no am I

next to a talker is this now gonna be my

flight

when someone says something

for 30 seconds

and then says well it's nice to meet you

and then goes back to their book you go

oh yeah okay and then it's almost like

you wouldn't mind if you ended up

talking to them more because you go oh

this person's chilled they've got their

own thing going on that's I I liken it

to that and too often when we're in the

mode of I want to get something

we forget to communicate to other people

that we don't actually need them so at

this point we've spoken about attraction

we've spoken about the mistakes that we

make in dating we've spoken about some

tips for navigating the dating Market in

the modern era and we ended the

conversation by talking about long-term

relationships

a couple questions about long-term

relationships so uh

honeymoon phase what's what's the deal

with that yeah I you know I'm I'm I

don't want to be really careful on this

because

talking uh from a place of humility I

I've not been in the kinds of long-term

relationships that other people have I'm

now engaged

um incredibly uh Happy

and excited about the future

um but there will be people who

you know have like Esther perel's work

is a really big influence for me because

this is someone who not only has had a

long-term marriage but has written

extensively on the subject of Love and

Desire yeah in relationships and I would

absolutely Point people to her book

mating in captivity which I think is an

extraordinary read and something that so

many people can learn from to paraphrase

Esther's work which is no doubt much

more eloquently put in her book she says

that there's love and there's desire and

that love

um

well let's start with desire desire is

what exists first

we see someone we become attracted to

them and we desire them and we want to

close down the space between us and Them

desire exists in the space right the

mystery who are you what are you all

about could you like me could I win you

over could you know I want to know you

and then as someone says yes

[Music]

you have the building of love

so we start to know each other we start

to get closer and closer and closer and

closer and closer and we have this

feeling of kind of Oneness between us

and and all of that Fosters feelings of

love

uh as Esther would put it the Paradox

becomes how do you continue to desire

that which you already have

and so now as you kind of become that

unit

there's less space between you they may

feel like there's no space between you

and so desire becomes suffocated because

desire exists in that space

and then you so then you enter that

world of well what does

what does desire look like in a long

term

context we don't want to play a game in

a long-term relationship where we kind

of are constantly making our partner

feel on edge yeah so that there's a

sense of danger and and yet

desire sometimes wants a sense of danger

desire sometimes wants a sense of

mystery desire wants a sense of

spontaneity of the new of the

unrecognizable now people want it to

differ in extents right the honeymoon

period is going to be much more

important to some people than others

because some people are are wired and

engineered to want security

so for them love is going to be much

more important for them to achieve than

to maintain feelings of desire for other

people they're engineered in the

opposite way it's much more important

for them to constantly feel like that

excitement than it is for them to feel

safety not that they don't want to feel

safe at all but it's just the balance is

different

and so I think what's kind of

interesting is

firstly to to to try to

find somebody who's not engineered

completely differently than you hmm

where they you know it's all love and no

desire or it's all desire and no love

because that's going to be miserable

but you may find that you're not

calibrated exactly the same in those two

things and that's okay

but

but that to me is where it's really

important to listen

to your partner's needs we we get so

caught up in a relationship in figuring

out what we need what's my love language

what what makes me feel loved and the

and the dangerous thing is that

we start giving to somebody else what we

would wish they would give to us so if

we like security then and we think

that's the highest thing you can give

someone then we start going out of our

way to give them as much security as

possible I love you I love you I love

you I love you I'll never leave you I

think you're the most amazing person on

Earth and so on we give them lots and

lots of security right and we end up

giving them that thing that We crave but

it doesn't mean you're wrong for craving

it just means that you're you're not

necessarily listening

to what that person requires because

they may just be engineered a little

different so I think it's really

valuable to just think about what

what are the things

that make my partner that Stoke desire

in my partner because in a way that to

me is what the honeymoon the honeymoon

period is a couple of things firstly

it's thinking we're perfect I think

you're perfect you think I'm perfect and

that just feels unbelievable and idyllic

and then we realize we're not perfect

and they go you go through a storming

period and the dust settles and now you

have a real relationship where we

actually see each other and say I'm

still here even though I really see you

now that's the to me that's the

transition into a real relationship

um but but beyond that it's also I think

the the honeymoon period is that period

of intense desire yeah

I think it's worth paying attention as

you transition in your relationship to

whatever the next phase is really pay

attention to what are the moments where

my partner

feels desire hmm

and this can be a kind of exercise in

really paying attention like right write

them down and it may sound weird to

people but like right because you will

forget

write down I just did this thing tonight

I just wore a completely different kind

of outfit and something about that

outfit really got them going yeah I'm

not even saying it was a really sexy

outfit it might be a an outfit you

wouldn't even even imagined was sexy to

them yeah but something about that

outfit did it for them yeah he's like

okay noted yeah

oh I just went away with my friends for

a weekend

and when I came back there was this

intensity okay that's interesting

um

all of those little moments are they're

like a formula

that can help you sustain that desire

within a relationship and I think when

you stop paying attention to those

things it's another way of not paying

attention to the health of your

relationship the health of your

relationship isn't two-dimensional it's

not just

how many things have I done for my

partner today

but I don't understand why they're so

ungrateful I I made them this I did this

I called them at the end of that and

asked them how it went I did that I did

it okay there's all of that is beautiful

but

but value in a relationship isn't

two-dimensional

sometimes value to someone is hey you

haven't seen your friends in a minute

you should go see your friends

like go hang out with that you haven't

seen those two friends in a while you

should go hang out with them are you

sure what really I feel like you'd be a

oh I'll be good I'll chill I'm gonna do

some stuff I really want to do but you

should go do that that's another form of

value if if you crave security that

might be unnatural to you because you

might be like I don't want them to go

out with their friends and leave me for

a night yeah that might be the very

thing that makes them go whoa I've never

had anyone do that before I've never had

anyone encourage me to go and have time

with people I care about they're always

sort of jealously guarding my presence

and my time so there's another form of

value

that to me is like real Mastery in in

relationships is going beyond what is

comfortable to give beyond what is feels

normal for you to give and really

listening to

what what makes them

feel a certain way whether it's love or

desire what Stokes that in that person I

mean pay attention so that I can

replicate that in the future so I hope

you enjoyed that conversation with

Matthew Hussey I think main thing to say

is hey I love the conversation I hope

you did as well and secondly we're not

born knowing how to create love and

create long-lasting relationships it is

definitely your skill and it's a skill

that we can absolutely develop over time

and given the importance of

relationships in our lives it's probably

a thing we don't want to leave to

complete chance into pure accident and I

hope this interview with Matthew helped

you think about dating or relationships

or attraction in maybe a slightly

different way than you did before and I

hope you gained something from it and if

you're interested in checking out

Matthew's stuff that will be linked in

the video description or in the show

notes wherever you happen to be watching

this so thank you so much for watching

I'll see you hopefully in the next

episode bye