Why is Mastering Email Marketing like Catching a Unicorn?

Summary

En este episodio de 'Email Never Sleeps', Andrew Cordic conversa con Evan Blittner, un experto en marketing con 16 años de experiencia. Evan comparte su visión sobre por qué dominar el marketing por correo electrónico es como atrapar un unicornio: un objetivo brillante pero inalcanzable debido a la naturaleza dinámica del marketing por correo. Discuten la importancia de la estrategia, la experiencia del cliente, la segmentación y la medición de la atribución en diferentes etapas del ciclo de vida del cliente. Evan enfatiza la necesidad de pruebas iterativas y la colaboración con equipos de datos para mejorar constantemente las campañas de correo electrónico.

Takeaways

• 😀 La maestría en el marketing por correo electrónico es difícil de alcanzar porque es un objetivo en constante movimiento y cambia con el tiempo.
• 🔍 Es importante tener una amplia experiencia en diferentes sectores y roles para entender las complejidades del marketing por correo electrónico.
• 🌟 El término 'unicornio' se utiliza para describir algo que es ideal pero difícil de alcanzar, refiriéndose a la maestría en el marketing por correo electrónico.
• 📈 La medición del éxito en el marketing por correo electrónico no debe basarse únicamente en la recepción y apertura de correos, sino en una variedad de atributos a lo largo del ciclo de vida del cliente.
• 📝 La importancia de contar con el apoyo de la dirección para poder abordar el marketing por correo electrónico de manera integral y no fragmentada.
• 🔑 La estrategia de marketing por correo electrónico debe comenzar con una comprensión profunda del cliente, su jornada y cómo se puede mejorar su experiencia.
• 📑 La necesidad de trabajar con datos primarios, secundarios y de terceros para segmentar adecuadamente a los clientes y personalizar las comunicaciones.
• 🔄 La importancia de la iteración y el testing continuo para mejorar el programa de marketing por correo electrónico y ajustar la estrategia según los resultados.
• 📈 La dificultad de medir el éxito en la retención de clientes y la necesidad de implementar pruebas de control (holdout groups) para evaluar el impacto de las estrategias.
• 🔔 La importancia de comenzar las estrategias de recuperación de clientes (win back) temprano, y no esperar hasta que sea demasiado tarde para intentar reactivarlo.
• 🚀 La necesidad de innovar y probar nuevas tácticas en el marketing por correo electrónico, en lugar de quedarse estático en un enfoque que ya ha demostrado ser insuficiente.

Q & A

¿Qué comparación se hace entre el marketing de correo electrónico y la captura de un unicornio según el podcast?

La comparación es que el marketing de correo electrónico es algo brillante, hermoso e increíble que parece representar todo lo que queremos que sea, pero en realidad no existe o es muy difícil de alcanzar, al igual que un unicornio.

¿Cuál es la experiencia laboral de Evan Blitner en el campo del marketing según el guion?

Evan Blitner tiene 16 años de experiencia como marketing o estratega, trabajando en agencias, del lado del cliente y del vendedor, con un enfoque particular en el marketing de ciclo de vida CRM en varias industrias.

¿Por qué es difícil dominar completamente el marketing de correo electrónico según Evan en el podcast?

Es difícil porque es un objetivo en movimiento, con muchos componentes internos y experiencias del cliente que cambian constantemente, lo que hace que dominarlo de manera holística sea complicado.

¿Qué es lo que Andrew Cordic sugiere que las personas deberían hacer para comenzar a entender el marketing de correo electrónico?

Andrew sugiere que las personas deberían comenzar con la experiencia y la estrategia de alto nivel, entendiendo la investigación, el uso de datos primarios y secundarios, y cómo se segmenta y personaliza el mensaje.

¿Qué importancia tiene el liderazgo en la estrategia de marketing de correo electrónico según el guion?

El liderazgo es crucial, ya que sin el apoyo de los líderes a nivel superior, es probable que se trabaje solo en partes del proceso y no se conecte todo el ciclo de vida del cliente.

¿Qué es un 'holdout group' y por qué es difícil de vender esta idea a la dirección en el marketing de correo electrónico?

Un 'holdout group' es un grupo de control que no recibe el tratamiento de marketing para medir el impacto de ciertas tácticas. Es difícil de vender porque a menudo la gente no les gusta la idea de no aprovechar al máximo todas las oportunidades de marketing.

¿Qué es una de las métricas clave que Evan Blitner sugiere que se deberían considerar más allá de los ingresos en el marketing de correo electrónico?

Evan Blitner sugiere que la atribución, que ocurre en diferentes ciclos del individuo que se está tratando de alcanzar, es una métrica clave que se debería considerar además de los ingresos.

¿Qué es una de las dificultades mencionadas por Evan Blitner en el área de retención en el podcast?

Una de las dificultades es pensar en los diferentes tipos de clientes y puntos de dolor que se están tratando de prevenir, y cómo medir el éxito de las estrategias de retención, especialmente cuando se trata de justificar tácticas como el uso de grupos holdout.

¿Cuál es una de las estrategias de testing que Evan Blitner ha encontrado efectiva en el marketing de correo electrónico según el guion?

Evan Blitner menciona que las pruebas de líneas de asunto son una estrategia de testing efectiva, ya que si más personas abren el correo, es más probable que se obtenga un mayor número de clics y, en última instancia, una mayor tasa de conversión.

¿Qué es una de las conclusiones finales que Evan Blitner ofrece en el podcast sobre el marketing de correo electrónico?

Evan Blitner concluye que no hay un email master y que todos somos estudiantes de esta disciplina que seguirá cambiando, por lo que es importante trabajar continuamente en la mejora y la innovación en el marketing de correo electrónico.

Outlines

00:00

📧 Introducción y presentación de invitados

Andrew Cordic da la bienvenida a los espectadores y presenta al invitado especial, Evan Blittner. Evan se introduce y comparte su vasta experiencia en marketing, especialmente en CRM y marketing de ciclo de vida en diversas industrias como telecomunicaciones, seguros y finanzas.

05:02

🎯 Definiendo el unicornio en el marketing por correo electrónico

Evan explica por qué dominar el marketing por correo electrónico es como atrapar un unicornio: es deseable y perfecto, pero inalcanzable en su totalidad. Aunque se pueden dominar aspectos específicos del ciclo de vida del cliente, el marketing por correo electrónico es un objetivo en constante movimiento debido a múltiples factores internos y externos.

10:03

🔍 Estrategia y experiencia en marketing por correo electrónico

La discusión se centra en la importancia de la estrategia y la experiencia del cliente en el marketing por correo electrónico. Evan y Andrew enfatizan la necesidad de tener apoyo de los líderes superiores y la comprensión del recorrido del cliente desde su inicio hasta la resolución de problemas, incluyendo la investigación y el análisis de datos primarios y terciarios.

15:05

💡 La importancia de las pruebas en el marketing por correo electrónico

Evan resalta la importancia de las pruebas iterativas en el marketing por correo electrónico. Aunque todos los aspectos son importantes, las pruebas de líneas de asunto suelen tener el mayor impacto. Las pruebas deben ser continuas y estratégicas, enfocándose en áreas que generen el mayor retorno.

20:05

🛠 Desafíos en diferentes etapas del ciclo de vida del cliente

Se discuten los desafíos en varias etapas del ciclo de vida del cliente: adquisición, venta cruzada, retención, sorpresa y deleite, y recuperación. Evan elige hablar sobre la retención, destacando la complejidad de medir y justificar la retención ante la dirección. Andrew elige la recuperación, enfatizando la necesidad de comenzar las intervenciones antes de lo habitual para tener éxito.

🚀 Conclusiones y recomendaciones

Evan y Andrew resumen los puntos clave, destacando la importancia de no enfocarse solo en las métricas de correo electrónico sino en datos holísticos que puedan cambiar el juego. Recomiendan a los profesionales del marketing que se centren en mejorar continuamente sus programas y a no sentirse complacidos con los resultados actuales.

Keywords

💡Marketing por correo electrónico

El marketing por correo electrónico se refiere al uso de correos electrónicos para promover productos o servicios y mantener la relación con los clientes. En el video, se discute cómo dominar esta técnica es similar a atrapar un unicornio debido a su complejidad y la cantidad de factores involucrados, como la segmentación y la personalización de mensajes.

💡Ciclo de vida del cliente

El ciclo de vida del cliente abarca todas las etapas que un cliente atraviesa desde que tiene su primera interacción con la marca hasta la posible reactivación tras haber abandonado. Evan menciona que es difícil dominar cada aspecto del ciclo de vida completo del cliente, desde la adquisición hasta la retención y el reenganche.

💡Segmentación

La segmentación implica dividir a los clientes en grupos más pequeños y específicos según ciertos criterios, como comportamiento o demografía, para enviar mensajes más personalizados. En el video, se menciona cómo la segmentación profunda puede marcar una diferencia significativa en la efectividad del marketing por correo electrónico.

💡Retención

La retención se refiere a las estrategias y tácticas utilizadas para mantener a los clientes existentes comprometidos y satisfechos con la marca. Evan destaca que la retención es un desafío debido a la necesidad de abordar los diferentes tipos de clientes y sus respectivos puntos de fricción.

💡Reenganche

El reenganche (o winback) es la estrategia para recuperar a los clientes inactivos o perdidos. Se menciona en el video que muchas veces las estrategias de reenganche comienzan demasiado tarde y deberían iniciarse más temprano para ser efectivas.

💡Compra cruzada

La compra cruzada (cross-sell) implica recomendar productos o servicios adicionales que complementan la compra inicial del cliente. Este concepto se menciona como una de las áreas que pueden ser difíciles de dominar debido a la necesidad de comprender profundamente el comportamiento y las necesidades del cliente.

💡Experiencia del cliente

La experiencia del cliente es la percepción total que los clientes tienen sobre la interacción con una marca a lo largo de su ciclo de vida. En el video, se enfatiza la importancia de entender el viaje del cliente y proporcionar una experiencia coherente y satisfactoria en cada punto de contacto.

💡Investigación primaria

La investigación primaria implica recopilar datos directamente de los clientes a través de encuestas, entrevistas o grupos focales. Evan menciona cómo la investigación primaria es crucial para comprender los problemas y necesidades de los clientes y ajustar las estrategias de marketing en consecuencia.

💡Medición de atribución

La medición de atribución es el proceso de identificar y evaluar los puntos de contacto que contribuyen a la conversión del cliente. En el video, se discute la importancia de medir la atribución en diferentes etapas del ciclo de vida del cliente, no solo en términos de ingresos, sino también en otros indicadores clave de rendimiento.

💡Centro de preferencias

Un centro de preferencias es una herramienta que permite a los clientes gestionar sus preferencias de comunicación y suscribirse a diferentes tipos de contenido. En el video, se menciona que los centros de preferencias cambian con el tiempo y deben ser monitoreados y ajustados para alinearse con las expectativas cambiantes de los clientes.

Highlights

Mastering email marketing is like catching a unicorn: a beautiful and elusive goal.

Evan Blitner's 16 years of experience in marketing and CRM lifecycle strategies across various industries.

The importance of understanding the customer journey and the challenges in email marketing.

The need for buy-in from top-level leadership for a holistic approach to email marketing.

The dynamic nature of customer preferences and data, affecting the strategy and experience.

The significance of segmentation and nuanced messaging in email marketing.

Difficulties in measuring attribution across different stages of the customer lifecycle.

The long-tail journey of understanding customer behavior and optimizing email strategies.

The challenge of managing expectations with holdout groups in testing email campaigns.

The iterative process of testing in email marketing and its impact on strategy.

The importance of not being complacent and continuously innovating in email marketing.

The role of primary and third-party data in shaping email marketing strategies.

The challenges of retention in email marketing and the need for early interventions.

The misconceptions about win-back strategies and the importance of starting them early.

The necessity to prove the worth of email marketing through documented attribution and innovation.

Final thoughts on the continuous learning and improvement required in the email marketing field.

Transcripts

hey everybody Andrew Cordic back with

another email never

sleeps and my special guest today I

think you're gonna enjoy because our

topic is called why is mastering email

marketing like catching a unicorn and

this interesting and I've got Evan

blittner um with me um he's been around

a long time Evan introduce yourself tell

us a little bit about your background

and then let's just jump into the topic

sounds great thank you Andrew uh so yeah

hi everybody I have uh 16 years of

experience as a marketer or strategist

I've worked at agencies and client side

even vendor side uh very early in my

career um so going into my experience

just a lot last 12 years very heavy

focus on CRM life cycle marketing

specifically with Brands across multiple

Industries uh

Telecom

Insurance uh

finance and uh of course uh one of my

best experiences was cpg but anyway you

know just a variety of experiences also

Hospitality but that was you know it was

fun it's just smaller bits if your

agency side sometimes you do you know

projects and and you know you on an

account for a short period of time so

it's hard to like narrow in your focus

when you've been in so many places but

that's why I feel like I have a wide

breath of experience you're you're what

I call the trifecta right I've been in

the email Trifecta right agency client

and uh vendor side so uh for those of

you that don't know the trifecta that's

what it is um so let's talk about

mastering email marketing and why it's

like catching a unicorn and I'd love for

you to say like what is the Unicorn like

why did you why why did you use that

term what what is the Unicorn to

you a unicorn is simply something that

is shiny beautiful amazing represents

everything we want it to be yeah and it

doesn't exist yeah oh wait a minute wait

a minute you're saying that uh uh

mastering email marketing you know

doesn't exist what do you mean what do

you mean by that like that that's hard

to understand right well I think you can

Master areas of email marketing and I

know we're going to break that down yeah

know can Master certain parts of a life

cycle Journey or a campaign or test of

course you can yeah but you master

holistically from the second someone

becomes uh gives you permission to

communicate with them all the way to

winning them back if they if they laughs

can you master that every aspect of it I

don't think so and the simple reason is

because it's a moving Target there is so

many and we'll get into it but there's

so many components to it from internal

um internal parts to to the actual

experience that uh customers wind up

getting 100 100% agree right uh you know

uh someone always ask my um opinion on

preference centers and I'd say

preference centers change over a long

period of time right and customer

preferences change your data changes um

industry changes internal stuff changes

so what would you say

is the is where do we where does

somebody start right like how when you

start talking about like channels that

are involved or data that's aligned or

or whatever let's talk about the Top

Line right uh experience and strategy

what do you what what what what are your

thoughts on that and how would you

advise or um what do you want to talk

about when it comes to topliner strategy

experience yeah of course and I think

every industry has its uh ins and outs

of U izing research utilizing uh a

customer's journey in terms of primary

data first party data third party data

and the messaging itself right how deep

does your segmentation go does messaging

certain customer types um really make a

difference and how nuanced you need to

be right yeah and then and then you know

let's back it up a second you have to

understand your whole journey and you

have to have so so like first first and

foremost if you want to try to aim

toward Mastery you need um buy in from

the top level leadership needs to buy in

if you don't have leadership buying in

you're GNA find yourself working on bits

and pieces of the journey and you're

never gonna connect at all yeah and

that's important when we start talking

about Journey everybody I think that's

where sometimes people get confused or

mixed up oh yeah and what I mean by

Journey is is where does it start what

do they do what's their problem what are

you trying to solve and how do you get

that information like you said primary

research um I don't know about some of

you but like when I when I was

Consulting big time I went in and I

listened to customer service calls

inbound customer service calls I

actually read people when they responded

back to emails thinking that was

somebody there to to read you have to

understand the problem and then you have

to understand when they sign up right

when they start giving permission like

you said where do they go what do they

receive how often do they receive it in

the timing right and that that's part of

taking a step back and understanding

what initially happens and what do you

see from Brand's perspective or what do

you see as a significant challenge you

said getting Buy in I agree but I also

think it's getting Buy in from all the

other people that have to be involved

where touches right I completely agree

just start with the top down and then

you really do need to go through like

stakeholder interviews and get a post of

where everyone in the organization

is you know that that varies from you

know all the way down your different

departments whether you use an you know

most likely you use a third party ESP

most likely you have a CDP that's also

third party or um or you're using uh

your combination of Technologies to make

it almost like a CDP like a Salesforce

yep um but then beyond that you know you

have to also understand you know your

technology your your it team like can

they keep up with you can they do they

understand the problems you're trying to

solve and then beyond that of course the

marketers themselves right how are they

how are they comprehending its value of

email and in general its role some

people see emails you know there's all

different variations and flavors of it

and like you know go I don't want to go

off on the

tangent I to do that

easily but I've seeing you know certain

industries see it as solely like a

branding tool at times yeah see it

solely as a Trans actual kind of

experience and obviously everything in

between one of the things that you and I

chatted about when we were setting this

up um and you made an interesting point

of you know how is your attrib rtion

being measured right and you know you

know a lot of the a lot of the times

email marketers CRM marketers get

together and really the only attribution

is revenue and and I'm going to disagree

on that because I think attribution

happens at different cycles of of the

individ individual that you're trying to

reach right so how is your attribution

being measured in the beginning in the

middle and maybe towards the end right

and those those attribution measures

probably are look a little different in

each life cycle stage uh of people um

and where they're at and

so you guys listening right I mean I

think this is important to note is you

shouldn't just have one measure across

all of your different segments across

all of your different things and yeah

revenue is going to play important part

depending upon what you're you know what

vertical you're in but you need to have

a really good measure in addition to the

journey and I remember I um I did a I

did a study once where it was 150-day

journey I looked at emails across a

brand for 150 days and found out that

75% of them were not stuff that I signed

up for in fact it was completely

opposite and I was receiving almost

eight times the amount of email than

really what I thought was going to get

and that takes time right so when you

start out and I know we're in the

beginning right but when you start out

doing this stuff it's not like it's a

wham bam we're done in two weeks type of

thing right it's a it's a longtail

journey to figure this stuff out and I'm

sure in your

experience it's kind of the same thing

right like it takes a while to yeah to

get a pulse of where there's gaps and

where you can certainly improve upon the

contact strategy whether it's you know

as you pointed out giving uh the

customer what they're what they're

seeking but the reference Center as an

example or if it's just simply deeply

understanding the customer better right

maybe you have a brand that marked that

happens to have 10 plus products and you

can actually tell by the data that

there's an interest in three or four

well then you should tread lightly on

the other ones even if they are the

generator it do they're not going to

convert most likely right um we touched

on uh testing in our in our pre- calls

and said it solves many pain points

because there there's a there's a lot to

test but it makes it almost impossible

because you need to do iterative testing

right around a couple different things

and so I'm curious what your thoughts

are on

testing yeah I so testing so let's just

say you either you know are just

inheriting a program or you you know now

roll out an improved version of a

contact stry and you have your different

places you're never going to be perfect

yeah that's part of the Enigma right no

matter how much you chase greatness

what's going to happen is ultimately

you're going to find areas to test

you're going to break down something it

might be uh an automated stream and

you're gonna be like wait a second this

has this has been here for years maybe

we should test this and ultimately I've

come back to as much as I love testing

multivariant headline and all kinds of

details yeah it's always been my

experience that subject lines seem to

get the most um Improvement because it

just trickles down it just makes sense

more people open an

email then you're gonna get more overall

cck clicks maybe get the better click to

open rate but does that matter if you

generate more Revenue not really or

whatever or wait and to Andrew to your

point yeah maybe that's not what you're

trying to get them to do maybe you're

just trying to get them maybe it's like

a Rewards program no you're early in the

journey and you just want them to sign

um to either activate or simply um for

example add more points um not points

get points for their uh given their

preferences you know like what they like

to do or what they're interested in and

so in those instances again if you could

get more people to open and then

ultimately more people to convert that's

the name of the game yeah and a lot of

people struggle with you know where do I

start from a testing perspective you

know the testing drum has been beaten

for many many years I know I've done it

um and a lot of people struggle with not

only just starting But continuing and um

I've always I've created a testing

template here at ipost which uh has

stood the test of time and it it starts

slowly it gets you addicted to testing

um and um I remember you know you're

able to sort of draw like what's next

and then know what is going to be the

most um

influential from a testing I wrote a

white paper on the couple stages of

testing and that's why when you kind of

get into it it's a it's a it's a however

long you stay at an organization right

folks you're gonna just be testing the

entire time and we're not talking about

we're not talking about daily testing

right I mean don't go bananas on testing

and learning and stuff like that but

there's this hypothesis that you have to

form and then you know whether it's a

once a week test or once a month test or

even a longtailed test right I did

testing for six months on a confirmed

opt-in email it's not an immediate thing

and we as email marketers or CRM

marketers we get instantaneous

gratification right when we send emails

out and um and oftentimes we have to let

sort of stuff marinate sit right and and

uh before you sort of learn um you know

we start talking about um the

difficulties um in the stage of the life

cycle and and you had mentioned this in

in an email to

me and they are right acquisition cross

sell and upsell retention surprise

Delight um win back pick one Evan pick

one and tell me where that difficulty

that someone would have in those

acquisition cross cell retention

surprise and and and win back where

where are the difficulties in in doing

that and then I'm gonna pick one okay um

I mean I've done a lot of acquisition so

I'm going to actually challenge myself

on the Fly and I've done retention as

well but okay um I'm going to go with

retention and I guess because there's

components to it um retention in some

ways is more of a challenge because you

have to think through the different

customer types and the different pain

points you're trying to prevent the

friction you're trying and as a marketer

sometimes you can't do much right maybe

you can educate somebody on a situation

that helps ease their concern about a

product or a service or maybe you can do

something to improve their experience

and it's it's all part of what it what

it entails however it becomes

challenging to measure it sometimes and

it also becomes challenging

to um go to management and say this is

what I'm really doing and then I just

add one component to it hold out groups

really become at least in my experience

a real challenge to sell out to sell to

Upward to sell to leadership because

people don't like holdout group and so

um if you're saying um hey like I'll

give an example of something without

getting into twoo too far that I heard

once you have someone returning for a

service every year yeah them if you

offer them um a certain certain promo

you know that you're going to get more

right yeah more people returning however

maybe there's a maybe there's a case for

a hold out group maybe you're offering

too many people that now how do you how

do you justify that for when your your

annual revenue might be 30% from email

that year you know so that's why it

becomes a real challenge in many

different capacities yeah that's a good

point right

and I've only known of all the

organizations I've ever worked with or

worked for I've only experienced uh two

organizations that were in favor of hold

do groups which is interesting right and

you're smiling because you know the

challenge right at least to sell it

because there's this notion of not only

just kind of carrying through that

holdback group but the the challenge

leading up to convincing people that

it's it's it's okay uh to do I'm gonna

choose winback

um amongst some of these different

things and I'm going to use a quote I'm

not going to claim uh claim ownership of

this it was my former creative director

when I own trend line his name is Alex

Williams owns his own agency now um you

can't put you can't wake up people the

same way you put them to sleep and so

when we start talking about win backs

right um often times there's this line

in the sand that's drawn by CRM

marketers I don't care if it's three

weeks three months three years 6 months

or whatever often times we begin win

backs too

late and there's this notion that the

way to win them back if you're um you

know if you're b2c or an eaer or

whatever you wi back with a special

discount right let's send everybody that

hasn't done this in X number of months a

new promotion or let's send somebody uh

an incentive to resign up to be a part

of our sub description service whatever

that case is what we don't look at as

professional marketers is sometimes it's

okay to start interventions or win backs

earlier I like using the term

intervention whether it's early mid or

late term interventions you should

really sort of think through that now

think about everything else you're doing

folks right from acquisition to regular

marketing emails to cross sell to what

you just said was retention and then

surprising delight mean mean your head

just goes boom right right so that's

where we're talking about you know it's

really hard to get into this um so I

would ask to for for everybody that's

out there is take a step back and focus

on one area of your of your program

because you can't focus on everything

you really

can't focus on one area of your program

where you think you're going to get the

biggest bang for your bu

so that when you can sell what the next

thing is if you have to to Senior

Management whether it's a winback

strategy whether it's an acquisition

strategy you're armed with data to go to

those folks and say hey this is what we

did this is what we want to do next we

need X number of budget to do it so

start earlier than you think when it

comes to win back because I honestly

believe that we wait too long and by

that time they're they're off right that

that's that's a recipe and I think I

heard a stat one time that only like 3%

come back on a winback I have no idea if

that's true or not I really don't care

um I think that you can increase those

stats because it's a lot easier like

we've always said it's a lot easier to

kind of deal with the people that are

already there than to try to go get um

uh new people so I really agree yeah so

we obviously haven't touched on

everything Evan right based off of our

time and that's why this is really

really hard everybody this is really

hard um to be an email marketer although

oftentimes we are don't have that seat

at the table we don't get the biggest

budget so what would your two or three

key takeaways that you'd want everybody

to walk away from this

podcast um and go and try and do or at

least start to do in their organizations

what what would you say

say yeah I think uh

ultimately I think taking away some of

the key points that we put out there uh

for different parts of the journey wi

bath retention as we just covered I

think another key thing is I I I know I

hit on it but I'll just say it again

yeah um if you can avoid getting into

the Trap of looking at just email

metrics and looking at results from

email and if you can visit think

holistically and work with your data

science team sometimes into your primary

data and maybe find something that

really changes the game yeah can make a

huge difference rather than just being

in your I guess what I would call your

bubble where you're playing with what

you already have in your

sandbox all great points and I'm going

to say this whether you're one week one

month one year or 10 years into your

role at your or organization there's

always something you can do to

iteratively improve your

program being complacent in areas like

how's my acquisition what's my journey

in the first 20 days to focusing on this

that or the other thing the only way

marketers are going to feel or email

marketers are going to feel better about

their role either a outside of their

organization or inside of their

organization to get spr cred so to speak

is to prove your Worth right through

trying to iteratively innovate or and

and document and keep track of your

attribution so that you can feel like

you're getting more and more out of the

program don't feel stuck there's a lot

to do you're never going to do

everything um folks um focus on what you

can change um and and just know that

when someone shows me on email on

LinkedIn or tells me I'm an email master

I'm like no you're not no one's an email

Master right um it takes time and you've

been in the business long enough I've

been in the business long enough to know

this is we are students you're a student

I'm a student of this craft and it's

going to keep changing no matter what

whether there's just some huge

Innovation right around email this is is

always going to be something that I

think we have to continuously improve

upon and and consumer Behavior just

changes over time absolutely so that's

gonna change no matter what

absolutely Evan any any final words

anything you want to leave for our

audience or or or what I Andrew thank

you again this has been great I really

appreciate it and I hope that everyone

enjoyed our uh podcast here and um you

know love you and anytime you want me

back I'm here for sure and and just like

I say to everybody every single podcast

we're going to put Evans Deets out there

to contact him on LinkedIn I'm sure

he'll be more than happy to um engage

with you uh you can learn from his

experience um Evan dude it's it's been

great thank you so much for taking time

out of your schedule to be with me and

everybody thank you for your continued

support support of email never sleeps I

really appreciate it uh until next time

keep emailing but try something new

innovate do something different next

week than what you would have done um

this week thank you again everybody

thank you again Evan and we'll see you

on the other side