How to Learn Any Language - Interview with Legendary Polyglot Steve Kaufmann
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful conversation, Luca Alemanprello interviews Steve Kaufman, a renowned polyglot and language learning expert. Kaufman shares his journey from being a Canadian diplomat to becoming deeply involved in language learning, leading to the creation of the language learning platform, LingQ. He emphasizes the importance of attitude, time spent with the language, and the ability to notice as key factors in language acquisition. Kaufman also discusses the benefits of learning multiple languages, including enhanced cultural understanding and professional opportunities, and encourages participation in the supportive polyglot community.
Takeaways
- 🌍 Language learning opens doors to understanding different cultures and histories.
- 📚 Steve Kaufman's language learning journey began with a passion for French, sparked by an inspiring professor at McGill University.
- 💡 A positive attitude, time spent with the language, and the ability to notice linguistic patterns are key to successful language acquisition.
- 🎯 Kaufman emphasizes the importance of enjoying the learning process and not getting hung up on details or making mistakes.
- 🌟 Learning languages has significantly benefited Kaufman's professional career, especially in connecting with international clients and suppliers.
- 🔄 The polyglot community is supportive and mutually beneficial, encouraging language enthusiasts to learn and grow together.
- 🎧 Kaufman uses technology, like Google Translate, for basic communication but highlights the irreplaceable value of human conversation.
- 📖 Reading books and listening to podcasts in the target language are crucial components of Kaufman's language learning routine.
- 🤔 Kaufman dropped Turkish to focus on Arabic and Persian, showing the flexibility and personal choice in language learning paths.
- 🌐 Even with advancements in translation technology, learning languages remains important for deeper cultural understanding and personal satisfaction.
- 👨👩👧👦 Kaufman's interests extend beyond language learning to include sports, history, and spending time with family.
Q & A
What does Steve Kaufman stand for in the language learning world?
-Steve Kaufman is known for his passion for languages and his career as a Canadian diplomat and businessman in the forest industry. He has learned multiple languages both professionally and out of personal interest, and has developed a language learning platform called LingQ (previously known as Link) with his son, Mark.
How did Steve Kaufman's interest in language learning begin?
-Steve's interest in language learning began in Montreal where he was exposed to both English and French speakers. His passion was ignited by a McGill University professor who taught French civilization, leading Steve to study in France and become fluent in French.
How did the idea of LingQ (Link) originate?
-The idea of LingQ originated from Steve's personal frustration with traditional language learning methods. He found it inefficient to underline unknown words in books, look them up in dictionaries, and still forget them. With a background in software development from his work in the forest industry, he developed a system to better facilitate language learning by combining audio and text.
What is Steve Kaufman's approach to maintaining multiple languages?
-Steve does not deliberately maintain his languages on a daily basis. Instead, he accepts the uncertainty of language proficiency fluctuation and focuses on exploring new languages. He revisits languages as needed and finds that relearning forgotten languages is more effective than trying to maintain them at a high level constantly.
How does Steve Kaufman define fluency in a language?
-For Steve, fluency means understanding fundamentally everything that is said to him, even if he speaks with mistakes. He uses the European Framework levels, where A2 allows one to claim speaking a language, B2 indicates fluency with some mistakes, and C1 suggests a very high level of fluency.
What are the three key factors for successful language learning according to Steve Kaufman?
-The three key factors are the attitude of the learner, the time spent with the language, and the ability to notice. A positive attitude, dedication of time, and the willingness to observe and understand language patterns are crucial for success.
How does Steve Kaufman incorporate listening and reading in his language learning routine?
-Steve listens to language content daily, using times when his hands are busy, like making breakfast or driving. This listening triggers curiosity, which leads him to read the content. He reads and listens to sentences repeatedly, trying to hammer them into his brain.
What does Steve Kaufman think about the necessity of writing in language learning?
-Steve acknowledges that writing is beneficial for language learning but personally does not write in the languages he is learning, focusing instead on listening and reading. He believes in doing what is easy and enjoyable for the learner.
What are some common limiting beliefs that hinder language learning, according to Steve Kaufman?
-Steve mentions that people often resist accepting new languages, get hung up on details, and are overly focused on speaking perfectly. These beliefs can create obstacles and prevent learners from enjoying the language learning process.
How does Steve Kaufman respond to the argument that technology is making language learning less important?
-Steve believes that while technology can aid communication, it cannot replace the deep cultural understanding and personal satisfaction that come from learning languages. He emphasizes that speaking with a language partner is a fundamentally different experience from using a translation device.
What are some of Steve Kaufman's interests outside of language learning?
-Apart from language learning, Steve is interested in history, sports (particularly ice hockey and golf), and spending time with his family. He also enjoys watching series with subtitles to pick up dialogue in different languages.
Outlines
🌟 Introduction and Background
The video begins with Luca Alemanperello introducing Steve Kaufman, a renowned language learner and creator of the language learning platform, LingQ. Kaufman shares his career journey, starting as a Canadian diplomat and working in the forest industry, to becoming a passionate language learner. He discusses his experiences learning languages in Japan and his motivation to develop LingQ, a platform designed to help others learn languages more efficiently.
🌐 The Start of Language Learning
Steve Kaufman delves into his early experiences with language learning, starting with French in Montreal and later learning Mandarin and Japanese. He emphasizes the importance of motivation and confidence in language acquisition, sharing how his success in learning French inspired him to tackle other languages. Kaufman also discusses the challenges of learning languages and the satisfaction of overcoming them.
📚 The Birth of LingQ
Kaufman shares the story behind the creation of LingQ, which began as a solution to his own frustrations with traditional language learning methods. He talks about his experiences with software development and how he applied this knowledge to build a platform that could help language learners. The conversation also touches on the evolution of LingQ from a single-language platform to a multi-language system.
🗣️ Defining Language Proficiency
Steve Kaufman discusses the concept of language proficiency and how it varies for individuals. He shares his personal experiences with speaking different languages and the challenges of relearning languages after periods of disuse. Kaufman emphasizes that fluency is not about perfection but about effective communication and understanding.
🌍 Maintaining Multiple Languages
Kaufman talks about his approach to maintaining multiple languages, highlighting the importance of accepting uncertainty and the natural ebb and flow of language skills. He shares his strategies for refreshing languages and the role of his platform, LingQ, in this process. Kaufman also discusses the research around interleaving, learning, and forgetting, and how it applies to language maintenance.
📚 Current Language Learning Routine
Steve Kaufman details his current language learning routine, focusing on Arabic and Persian. He explains his decision to drop Turkish temporarily to concentrate on these languages and how he integrates listening and reading into his daily life. Kaufman also discusses the role of curiosity in language learning and how it drives him to explore and understand new languages.
✍️ The Role of Writing in Language Learning
Kaufman reflects on the role of writing in language learning, sharing his personal experiences with writing in different languages. He discusses the convenience of digital tools and the benefits of typing over handwriting for certain languages. Kaufman acknowledges the value of writing but emphasizes that his current approach focuses on listening and reading.
🔑 Keys to Language Learning Success
Steve Kaufman outlines the three key factors for successful language learning: the learner's attitude, the time spent with the language, and the ability to notice patterns and details within the language. He emphasizes the importance of enjoying the learning process and not getting too caught up in the details, which can hinder progress.
🧠 Attitude and Language Learning Beliefs
Kaufman discusses the impact of attitude on language learning, citing examples of individuals with negative attitudes towards languages or language learning. He highlights common limiting beliefs that can prevent people from achieving language learning success, such as an overemphasis on details and a resistance to embracing new language structures. Kaufman encourages a more holistic approach to language learning.
🌟 Personal Interests Beyond Language Learning
Steve Kaufman shares his other interests beyond language learning, such as history, sports, and spending time with family. He emphasizes that polyglots are well-rounded individuals with diverse interests and that language learning enriches these other areas of life.
🌐 The Importance of Learning Languages in the Age of Technology
Kaufman addresses the question of whether it's important to learn languages in the era of advanced translation technology. He argues that while English can get by in many situations, learning additional languages offers significant personal and professional benefits that technology cannot replicate. He also promotes the supportive nature of the polyglot community and encourages participation in language learning events.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Language Learning
💡Polyglot
💡Link (LingQ)
💡Cultural Understanding
💡Language Attitude
💡Time Investment
💡Noticing in Language Learning
💡Professional Advantage
💡Cultural Satisfaction
💡Language Learning Platforms
Highlights
Steve Kaufman shares his language learning journey, starting with French and leading to a passion for learning multiple languages.
Kaufman's initial interest in languages was sparked by a McGill University professor who taught French civilization, demonstrating the impact of a great teacher on learner motivation.
Steve's experience as a Canadian diplomat and in the forest industry provided opportunities to learn languages like Mandarin and Japanese.
The development of the language learning platform LINQ (Language Instruction for National Diplomacy) began with Steve's personal frustration learning Spanish and German.
LINQ evolved from a desire to improve upon traditional language learning methods, leveraging technology like MP3s and online dictionaries.
Steve Kaufman's approach to language learning involves大量的 listening and reading, using tools like LINQ to enhance comprehension and vocabulary.
Kaufman discusses the importance of attitude in language learning, emphasizing acceptance of making mistakes and being open to new linguistic structures.
The concept of 'noticing' in language acquisition is highlighted as a key factor in successful language learning, alongside attitude and time spent with the language.
Steve addresses the misconception that polyglots only talk about language learning, explaining that language is a gateway to broader interests like history and culture.
Kaufman shares his personal interests outside of language learning, including sports, history, and spending time with family.
The discussion touches on the importance of learning languages in today's world, despite advancements in translation technology.
Steve Kaufman's fluency in multiple languages has significantly impacted his professional career, providing unique opportunities and connections.
Kaufman emphasizes the value of genuine conversation over machine translation, highlighting the personal connection and cultural understanding that comes with language proficiency.
The polyglot community is described as supportive and mutually beneficial, encouraging language learners to engage and grow.
Steve Kaufman's pronunciation and language skills are praised, showcasing the effectiveness of his language learning methods.
Kaufman encourages participation in polyglot gatherings and conferences, offering a welcoming environment for language enthusiasts.
Transcripts
hi guys this is luca alemperello from
lucanopure.com and today
i am with the man the legend steve
kaufman for those who follow my channel
most of those who found on my channel
i'm pretty sure that they already know
steve but
just in case there's anybody left who
doesn't know on this planet who doesn't
know steve
steve please can you introduce yourself
what do you do what do you stand for
and within the language learning world
and
too much flattery here but i will try to
answer
so so i am a person who likes languages
uh for most of my career initially like
seven years i was a canadian diplomat
and then i was in the forest industry
initially working for large corporations
and then set up my own company which i
still have in the you know in the trade
of wood products
along the way i learned a bunch of
languages both as a diplomat and while
working in the wood business because i
was in japan
and all that kind of stuff and then in
the last say
15 years i have been very interested in
learning languages i've learned more
languages in the last 15 years
than i learned up to the age of 60. and
uh along the way with my son mark we
developed this
language learning platform called link
which is a big part of my life i
i work for it i talk about it and i
study languages there
uh other than that i have two boys five
grandchildren of course there's wives in
the picture too
you know and uh yeah i like learning
languages i like history i like uh
i like uh food i like italy i like
everywhere actually uh who does that's
what i do who just likes it
and i food is like italy i don't know
the italians
exactly anyway thanks for the lovely
introduction um
i got two questions that came to my mind
so the first question is
how did it all start when it comes to
language learning and the second one is
how did link start i never asked you
this question so now
i want to know like one i don't know all
of a sudden you had
this idea oh let's build link you know i
was interested in both these how did
your language learn
and link so the language learning began
when you know i grew up in montreal
montreal in the 50s was like
1 million english speakers 2 million
french speakers they didn't communicate
much we had french at school much like
you know spanish instruction in the
united states or english
french instruction across most of canada
even today
the kids don't learn very much but uh
for whatever reason and i think i i
had a professor at mcgill university who
was who had this course in french
civilization and he just
turned me on he was the best thing a
teacher can do
is to stimulate uh and and uh motivate a
learner and once the learner is
motivated there's no holding the learner
back
so i got keen on french i watched you
know the in those days the movies you
know la nouvel vag
and then i ended up going off to france
where i studied for three years at
ciaosko in paris and so i got totally
into
being french you know and once you
discover that you can convert yourself
you can become a fluent speaker of
another language
you know a lot of people have never had
that experience so they don't believe
they can do it
but once i did that i knew i could do it
and then i
i joined the canadian government as a
diplomat and canada was getting ready to
recognize the people's republic of china
and they wanted someone to go to hong
kong to learn mandarin and i said i'm
your man
because i was confident i can do it you
know and i think other people maybe
didn't know if they could learn chinese
and then i lived in japan so along the
way you know and
and so i had opportunities i had
confidence
i felt that i knew how to do it and
obviously if if
it's a challenge every new language is a
challenge
but where you have a challenge that you
think you can cope with that's very
motivating
if you've had success in doing something
if you've been a mountain climber and
you've
climbed mountains that in the dolomites
and then next thing you know you want to
go to
higher mountains and and so forth so
it's just motivating
and as a you know while i was working i
didn't have that much time
to spend on language learning uh
but uh you know since the age of 60 i
have more time
and so yeah i just motivated and so then
that leads me to link why link
so i had along the years because i had
smattering of spanish and german and so
forth i had these books at home and i
would go and read them in spanish and
german
and on every page there's like 10 15
words that i don't know
so i would underline them i'd look them
up i'd make lists and then i'd forget it
all
so it was a tremend not to mention the
time looking it up in the dictionary
so it always frustrated me i knew that
reading was good for learning
i wanted to read these books and after
about 10 pages of
you know every 10th word which doesn't
seem like a lot but it's a lot i don't
know the meaning of the word
so i always had this feeling there's got
to be a better way
and you know at times i'd go to these
sort of you know bilingual books and and
but that's never very satisfying because
you're always
moving from the text in the target
language to looking
for that spot in the you know your own
language and stuff
so i always felt there ought to be a
better way so
so that's one background but the other
background is we had an employee we as a
company in the forest industry we
amongst other things we created software
for sawmills
so we had people doing you know
programming
and i was learning cantonese and i heard
about a chinese immigrant who arrived in
vancouver and had all his money stolen
he had his life savings of ten thousand
dollars
in a bag and the there were gangs that
prey on these people and they just stole
her money and next thing you know his
bag was found empty near chinatown
and uh so i heard about this on chinese
radio
here locally in vancouver so i said well
we can help this guy out
and he's apparently a programmer if he's
good he stays if he's no good
at least we helped him out and he was
his he had a high score on a toefl but
couldn't really communicate didn't
really understand what we were saying
you know there were cultural things that
were missing and so we developed a
program much like link
where you know what i did is i went and
spoke to people
in the rotary here electricians people
running travel bureaus
whatever the range of people you find in
rotary talking about what they do
and we transcribe that so that's living
canadian people
what they do something that the
immigrant has very little clue of
and so to understand the language and to
be able to communicate
and work you have to understand
what the people are what words they use
how they think
and so we had this system much like link
where you're listening to stuff you're
reading it you're looking up words
by that time i had focused you know i
realized that
mp3 technology online dictionaries all
of this
provided a solution to the problem that
i had had
in trying to read my spanish and german
books so out of that
came the original version of link which
was called the linguist and which was
only for learning english
and we tried to interest the and so the
chinese guy went back to china
we tried to immigra interest the
immigration department in this but they
weren't interested because they're so
bureaucratic that anything that doesn't
you know the people who provide the
service they only want to get money from
the government
so anything that might help the
immigrant but doesn't help them collect
more money from the government is of
little interest
and the government says you have to sell
this to the immigration services
group so there was it wasn't going to
work so then we just converted the whole
thing into a multi-language platform
where people you know offer their
languages
audio and text always you know say
something and then transcribe it don't
write it first and then record it
keep it live spontaneous and uh
that was the beginning of link that's
fun and we stayed with it we stayed with
it much much longer than any
it became a project that had to happen
it had a project that we weren't going
to give up on
because and any sane person would have
given up on it
as a commercial venture because it's
expensive you have to pay programmers
uh programmers don't get it right the
first time
we redo it redo it the the browsers
change we've got to redo
it and mobile arrives you got to rela
you know respond to that i mean there's
just so much
all the time that you're spending money
on and it's it's a very busy space i
mean there's lots of people
selling stuff on the internet so it's
difficult to attract attention to
yourself
but it was well worth it because it
works really well and i really like it
i've
learned i think i learned chinese just
by using length well i used a little bit
of some materials but i really found it
right i really found it useful so thanks
for that thanks for creating
it it's a companion it's not the whole
picture but it's it's it's
significant i always say that you can't
learn just with one resource you have to
learn right you have to learn through
multiple resources but if you have nice
resources like link
well so much the better now you said
you've been learning a
ton of languages you got a very
interesting story for each and every
language um
now i'm not going to venture into the
ground of how many languages you speak
i'm more like
interested in knowing what it what does
it mean for you to speak a language when
people say
i speak a language because you know we
have somehow we have to quantify or
maybe we feel the need of quantifying i
speak three
four five six you know even we're going
to have some
somebody invented these hyper polyglots
super poly super duper polyglot
but what does it mean for you to speak a
language how do you feel when you speak
elaine
i always struggle with that because you
know
uh i would like to get credit for all of
the languages that i've put a lot of
effort into
trying to learn and in all of them i
have learned quite a bit
so um but if you were to start speaking
to me now in polish or czech
or greek or romanian i would be dead in
the water
uh and yet when i was in romania i was
speaking
romanian when i was in greece i was
speaking greek and crete on the island
of crete
and i know that i can go back to those
languages
and quickly refresh them because when
you revisit stuff that you learned
before it's it's not lost
and and when you rediscover it which is
fun you get right back to where you work
so am i allowed to say that i speak
romanian or greek like korean i don't
speak korean very well
but i kind of speak it like the koreans
you know wow
as long as they stay within the range of
what i can deal with i'm okay
so you know i can say that 12 languages
i can speak i can turn on now i can
speak with mistakes
you know russian german make lots of
mistakes but i understand exactly what
people are saying
i can communicate and and you know or my
portuguese is very poor
because it sounds more like spanish but
i just have trouble
doing the really portuguese thing but i
can communicate i understand everything
they're saying
so those i count as speak but you know
even unlike turkish and
and persian i have done exit videos
in those languages after three months of
intensive learning
but turkish right now i would be i would
struggle
so you know when you say do you speaks
but then there are people who can say
hello how
are you in five languages do they
qualify does that qualify as speaking
it's a i in the end uh i
because the term is so vague i think
that if you have
i would call it a2 on the european
framework
you can say you speak the language even
though you don't speak it very well
right if you want to say i i would say
it this way use
a2 you can say i speak the language b2
you can say you're fluent even though
you're follow mistakes
and then once you're into c you can say
i'm very fluent
or i speak it well right so what what
does
what does fluency mean for you that's
another interesting question
so b2 what does it mean for okay it's a
label right but what does it mean in
concrete terms like what
okay those are skills if i okay if i if
i think of all the people that i've
dealt with in english
okay who operate quite comfortably in
english
uh whether they be japanese german
swedish and they always make the same
mistakes
like uh you know the swedish they always
say because
they are they are among uh you know folk
stockholm so
it is many people in stockholm they say
that that's what they say in english
because that's what they say in swedish
so that's a mistake or uh the german
will always say
i have been living in canada since many
years
well yeah that's what they always say so
they make
a lot of these very fundamental mistakes
that come from their own native language
they haven't been able to get away from
those habits
uh but they're still fluent so uh
speaking with mistakes is fine speaking
french without the subjunctive is fine
fluent to me as you unders this
comprehension is the key
you understand fundamentally everything
people say
at you you might have trouble in a movie
like if you're not in the situation
but if you're in the situation with
people you understand what's being said
you speak but you're searching for words
sometimes
and you make mistakes that's fluent
that's not
very fluent or speaking very well if
you're going to say you speak
very well you have to make few mistakes
like i think i speak french
very well because i make few mistakes
it's not that i make no mistakes
but i make few mistakes i think that's
something that i've learned by looking
at all the
observing all the comments uh on youtube
is that people tend to think that either
they have a zero-sum game mentality
either you're fluent
right so either you're and by fluent
they mean perfect or you're not first
perfection does not exist
and fluency is there's a lot of
different shades of fluency you can be
you can have so many there's so many
nuances to the word and there's so many
definitions i think
it depends on what you mean by it and
everybody sees it and interprets the
word in a different way but the most
important thing is that it's operative
and consistent for you so
going back to what you were saying
before you said that
you know you've been learning a bunch of
languages how do you maintain these
languages because for polyglots the
problem is not just about learning
because you have your own system you
know exactly what to do when it comes to
learning a new language
but what is in your day-to-day life to
maintain
all these like 15 or 14 or whatever
languages you have
if you're learning new ones i think you
were learning turkish
farsi and uh arabic is that
arabic yeah three easy languages right
right
so uh you know i think the condition
you know if you want to be a polyglot or
even a language learning you have to
accept
uncertainty so if you're worried about
losing your language don't become a
polyglot
so i don't worry about making mistakes i
don't worry about what i don't
understand
as i'm progressing in a language i'll
eventually understand more of it right
now i don't understand it that's fine
uh languages are slipping if i run into
a romanian
i'm dead in the water i can't say
anything even though
and you know and it's strange like uh i
don't know if you were in the
the polyglot gathering in slovakia and
bratislava
but in preparation for bratislava i
think you were there actually and i was
working the many stories in slovakia
slovak they're just totally focused on
trying to be able to say something in
slovak while i'm in bratislava and it
worked i was in the mall i was talking
to the shop owners and we were having a
great time in slovakia
there was a ukrainian at the meeting in
bratislava
and my ukrainian far superior to my
slovak i couldn't
open my mouth in ukraine i couldn't say
a thing i was blocked
the slovak had smothered the ukrainian
and yet
i went from bratislava to leave and the
day after i arrived
i was okay in ukrainian so the fact that
you can't
quickly just now do it because that
language is not strong enough
it doesn't concern me and uh in
particular with the many stories like i
find the many stories really useful
that's how i learn the language and when
i go to refresh i go right back to the
many stories to me it's like your
core exercises in the gym like that's
your core
and so i have that store that's almost
like a
a database a memory bank not in my brain
but in the many stories at link so if i
were to go off to poland now
i would go and do the mini stories in
polish and when i
get to poland i'll be fine the first day
not
so good but within a few days i'll be
i'll be just fine so
i don't worry about it i also know from
research that
anything that you forget and relearn
you're going to know it better
in other words there's a whole bunch of
research around interleaving and
learning and forgetting and relearning
so to me it's not an issue
and i don't deliberately go about trying
to maintain them
if i have to have a conversation in in
italian or
i'm going to be interviewed on chinese
television i might listen to a cd or at
least an mp3 file or do a mini story or
something just a little bit just to kind
of get me
a little bit better but i don't worry
about it whatever
it is what it is and and so i think we
have to be willing to accept
uncertainty failure all those things
uh and so yeah if i were hung up on
on you know taking my uh whatever
japanese to a higher level i would be
forever
perfecting my japanese so i would never
have explored
greek romanian not to mention i'm having
a ball with arabic
both standard arabic and also now i'm
i'm getting into levantine arabic and
we're watching the series in levantine
arabic
and at one point they uh they're
rehearsing for a play but the play is in
standard arabic
so i i was so glad that i did both
standard arabic and i'm
going into leavening arabic but it's all
part of the same it's all exploring
so i never worry about i i made the
choice i would rather explore more
rather than try to perfect what i
already have you said a few
uh quite a few interesting things one
thing i wanted to say is that
uh for the people who are maybe they're
still not politics who want to become
polyglots you have to
accept the fact that our skills vary
with time
there are moments when uh for example i
don't know my russian was much stronger
than say my polish and now it's the
opposite because of life circumstances
and you can always go back to it and
refresh it there's nothing you can do
we're limited in space and time and the
more languages
you you have under your belt necessarily
there are some that will practice a
little bit less because we only have 24
hours in the day forget about forget
about perfection there is nobody on this
planet who's able to speak
off the cuff at the drop of a hat i
don't know 20 languages like that
it's just it's just something that does
not belong to this
planet anyway so uh it something
interesting you're saying that you've
been learning um
you know farsi you've been learning
persian uh arabic
and uh remind me here the third language
turkish turkish but i drop turkeys for
now right so what is it that you do i've
i'm a lot of people ask me uh they've
asked me i'm gonna
make these videos and in the in the near
future what is it that you do when it
comes to language learning
every single day i'm not referring to
the languages you're maintaining i'm
referring to the languages you're
actively learning what does it mean okay
i'm actively learning a language
okay so uh i am a little bit
uh undisciplined so
i started i can't believe it yeah so i
started with
three you know and then i said you know
to me reading is a big part of learning
like there are people who just want to
be able to speak that's fine
but i like to be able to read and it
takes a long time to get used to a new
writing system
it doesn't take a long time to be able
to read very slowly in a new writing
system
it takes a long time to be able to read
comfortably in a
new writing system so i dropped the
turkish so that i could focus in on the
arabic writing system
that means persian and arabic and
now with the arabic where i was doing
standard arabic i decided now because
there's no standard arab no one speaks
it as a natural language there are
netflix
movies in egyptian and levantine so i'm
going to start getting into those
so so that's by way of like what i
decide to do so for a while i'm going to
do turkish then i drop turkish because
i'm not writing an exam i do whatever i
want to do and so far as the routine is
concerned
typically i will get i get up before my
wife
and i will listen to something i'm at a
spot in arabic where i'm not good enough
to listen to something
really interesting but i listen to it
anyway so i could go and find an al
jazeera or a phosphate cat
podcast to listen to understand 10 or 15
of it but it has the advantage of being
at least interesting
or i can go back to stuff that i've
worked on before
where i'm reinforcing things but it's
not as interesting
in either case i will listen to
something i will listen to something for
15-20 minutes while i
make my fruits you know we i prepare
some fruit salad some muesli or whatever
it might be you know
that's 20 minutes so i'm listening and
i'll find 20 minutes i clean up after
breakfast
uh during the day i will typically work
out so there's another
half hour a day of listening and if i'm
in the car going somewhere
so i easily get in an hour of listening
every day
what the listening does is it triggers
curiosity which is a big part of
language learning
i listened i didn't understand even with
say the mini stories that i'm listening
to there are parts of it that i still
don't understand after having listened
to it 30 times
or i want to get a better hold on so
that having listened now i want to get
in there and read
so i will find time during the day on my
ipad
to go through uh either what i listen to
like i have
for my uh arabic i have someone who
transcribes
these podcasts for me because there are
no tr uh what do you call the
transcripts
so i'll go through it on link and read
it
uh i will as i turn the page on link i
review the words on that page
i i don't go to the whole vocabulary
list or
the anki you know hundreds and hundreds
of hundreds of words
i will review in some kind of flashcard
activity
uh five six eight words that come from
the page that i just finished reading
because i want to reinforce it right
away and what i'm reviewing is not only
new words that i found there but also
words that i have previously looked up
which i still don't know
but they tie right back to to what i'm
reading
so basically that's it i uh have
online sessions with a tutor but i i
just find that the hour i spend with the
tutor
at at my stage i i prefer to spend that
it's easier for me just to listen and
write because i can do that whenever i
want otherwise i i
sign up for a tutor comes the appointed
time and i have something else on and
it's just not as convenient it's a great
thing to do it
it's motivating you connect with someone
but i tend not to do much of that
basically i listen 70 percent and then
30
40 of the time minutes like whatever 25
is on the ipad going through these uh
either easy stuff like the mini stories
or
difficult stuff or the stuff that my
iranian
gal is doing on the history of persia
which is great stuff
and so i mean that's ideal that's
intermediate content on something of
interest right now
as they say the devils in the uh and the
details i was i was curious as
you said that you listen a lot because
it stimulates curiosity and then which i
found very interesting and then you go
and read but don't you think that
right a lot of people might want to read
and listen or read first in order to
understand something and then enjoy it
because
as far as i'm concerned i always try to
read at least
once or read and listen the first time
that i see some content so that i can
understand it i can listen to it that's
fine
but what you're you were saying if maybe
i got it wrong is that you're listening
multiple times
even if you don't understand and then
you read did i understand
okay so yeah so to explain that i do a
lot of
listening and reading at the same time
too i go into what we call sentence mode
and there i can listen to just that
sentence because
it's still difficult for me arabic is
difficult persian is difficult and
especially in persian where we don't
have text to speech it's difficult so i
go sentence by sentence
and i listen to it and then i read it
and i listen again and i read and i try
to hammer that
sentence into my brain then i listen
again later on i still don't understand
what i understood when i was doing it
sentence by sentence i now no longer
understand but that's just part of the
process i'm sure you have the same
experience
uh but it's the convenience when i get
up in the morning
i've got to make breakfast so i don't
have the luxury of sitting down and
reading and listening and going through
my sentences and doing that ahead of
time
i jump out of bed i start to make
breakfast so i start by listening
if i'm in the car i listen so the the
big advantage of the listening
it's not necessarily that that's the
best way to do it it's just that
there's a lot more time available for
call it hands-free listening
than there is for deliberate study if i
have deliberate study i'm going to read
i'm going to read and listen i'm going
to do all those things i'm going to
review the words as i turn the page
do all of those things when i'm sitting
there dedicatedly you know dedicated to
studying
but the listening that i'm getting in is
basically
while i'm doing other things right um do
you jot anything by hand
do you use a pencil or system paper or
it's mainly digital
ipad okay uh
again i'm lazy when i was learning
chinese i wrote
everything by hand we had to we had to
write we had to translate from english
to chinese chinese english we had to
translate you know newspaper editorials
into chinese
and i think it's a good thing to do but
that's the last language
that i have written by hand i never
wrote japanese i lived in japan for nine
years
never ever wrote japanese uh don't
write russian don't write hangul don't
write
arabic i would love to when i see people
writing arabic i mean it's beautiful
but i don't i mean you just it's you
have to make certain choices
it's undoubtedly a good thing to do but
again i tend to do what's easy to do but
what about typing
so there are systems where you can
download the keyboard and it's really
easy to type
oh yeah yeah type but i only type if i'm
required
okay if i have to answer someone who
asked me something
uh but it's just i just don't i i'm not
saying that that's
you know the optimum way to learn a
language it's just that
at my stage i do what's easy to do of
course so
i just listen and read it's the easiest
thing to do uh
i don't speak that much when i am in a
situation where i'm with someone
yeah you know i will take advantage of
that opportunity but i don't
seek that out and i'm sure that writing
is a very good thing to do
translating is a good thing to do but i
just don't do that but
if i were preparing for an exam i would
certainly do right and do what you like
do what you enjoy this is one of the
principles
so going back to or advancing moving
forward in the
in the conversation what are the if
someone comes to you and asks you steve
as an expert as a language expert what
are the most
important things of factors to keep in
mind when it comes to learning a
language
what would you say the three four
whatever you know the number doesn't
matter what are the things that really
make a difference that maybe all
successful language learners have in
common when it comes to acquiring a
language to success meaning to
get to speak the language fluently
you know i always come back to the three
keys that
were once announced by this head of the
san diego state language department i
was at a conference
american teachers of foreign language
and she said there's only three things
that matter in language learning
uh the attitude of the learner
second time spent with the language
not time spent talking in english about
spanish or
explaining spanish grammar spent time
time spent with the language only with
the language and the third thing is the
ability to notice
now stephen krashen says no there's no
such thing as the ability to know it's
whatever
i i am increasingly convinced that
noticing is
very important so if we just step back
so obviously attitude you have to
want to learn you have to be confident
that you can learn
you have to like the language at least
some aspects of the culture you don't
have to like the whole culture you have
to find something you like
a person you like there has to be
something that attracts you to the
language
i mean ideally yeah people have to learn
english for work and maybe they don't
like it but
but in an ideal scenario all of those
things have to be there
and for that to work therefore do things
you enjoy because that's going to make
you positive about the whole experience
second thing is time it takes a lot of
time there is there are no shortcuts
you got to put in the time every day and
you don't learn the language in a couple
of months
unless unless it's like you know you're
a portuguese person that's moved to
spain
that's a different scenario that's
almost the same language but if you're
learning a genuinely different language
it takes a lot of time so time is key
and this noticing thing like a lot of
things you're just going to notice
because you're motivated because you
listen a lot you
read a lot you start naturally to notice
more and more things
but you have to want to notice some
people won't notice
i always use the example of my father
who was fluent in english
but he to him however the the
english was written he would pronounce
it czecho
check style because he was originally
from czechoslovakia and and almost
he didn't want to pronounce it like i
mentioned you know nova scotia is a
province in canada
him with nova scotia nova scotia it's
not that he can't pronounce
sha but t i a is scotia
you know that's what it should be so he
didn't notice or he didn't
want to you know pronounce it that way
but you have to notice
and i find that the more i listen if i
listen to my mini stories 30 times
i'm i'm always noticing something
different something that might have been
explained to me
three months ago and had no effect on me
and
explanations can also help you notice
but the fact that it's explained to you
doesn't mean you really notice it
or you don't believe that that's really
what happens in the language and then at
some point you start to notice it so
there has to be this this desire this
interest in paying attention not only in
terms of pronunciation but also
structure
and all those things you got to pay
attention and it's and it's not a matter
of
i taught you this therefore you must now
you know you will have learned it and
now you
we will test you on it you won't learn
it you won't remember it
but at least notice it and notice it
again
and notice it a third and a fourth and a
fifth time and eventually it becomes a
part of you
you develop these new habits so so to me
it's the attitude of the learner
the time you spend with the language and
developing
beyond the natural ability to notice
which to some extent we notice certain
things
but really focus to want to notice
how the language works those would be
the three thank you it's that's great
great information now
um let's talk a little bit about
attitude i'm interested in that
um can you give me an example of a
person who's got a bad attitude what are
the implications of having
a bad attitude towards not only the
language but language learner it's lear
it's native speakers or whatever and
what do you think
are the most critical and crippling
beliefs limiting beliefs that normal
people or people are not
language experts have towards language
learners
after 10 years of trying to learn a
language and
not being able to string a sentence
together because that's the case for
for a lot of people large number
you know there's a number of things um
when i was learning chinese i had a guy
another canadian
diplomat studying with me he was in his
30s
and we we discovered that in chinese to
say
are you going they say you're gonna go
right as you know need chewbacchu
and his reaction was is that ever stupid
okay so a lot of people resist the new
language
they may not say is that ever stupid but
at some level they they just don't
you have to be willing to just take it
in
and and be willing to make mistakes and
just just let it come into you
trust that your brain will learn
eventually
and i think a lot of people you know the
people who've been going to their local
library to learn spanish for 10 years
and can't stream
ascends together they're too hung up on
the details
they did you know chapter 10 is the
subjunctive or something forget it
don't think you can master any basics
you just have to let the language come
at you let your brain get used to it
and try to like it try to like it try to
be like them you know no my father spoke
english very well but he was you know
it's got to be pronounced this way yeah
you know you have to
so i think this this this over obsession
with and by the way it's not just people
i take
because you're italian right so ward
like
oh is all you know they feel uh
that because it's written a certain way
it should be pronounced a certain way
now unfortunately in english it doesn't
work that way
and so you have to be willing to accept
contrary to all of the habits that have
been built in you
based on how you know your own writing
system
works that in this other language it
doesn't work that way
just accept it and so i think a lot of
people
who uh now you know someone who's been
at the library
studying for 10 years and can't speak at
least they like the idea of learning
spanish
at least they think that's a good that's
something that they would want to do
so i mean the biggest problem is when
you have people who are not
interested i don't wanna i don't like
spanish i don't like spanish-speaking
people
negative that so that's forget it those
guys are never going to get there but
someone who goes for 10 years to the
library hopes to learn spanish
and they still don't learn it's because
they're hung up on the details
and and they're not willing to just let
sort of holistically
the language come at them focus on
comprehension
focus on enjoying the language don't
worry about what you can say
i think there's far too much emphasis in
language class
on speaking because you're not going to
speak well
too much focus on on drills and you're
going to get them wrong
and and i get them wrong like
comprehension questions that's the most
stupid thing
so so i listened to something and then
ask me well what did you know luigi say
to maria
i can't remember i get it wrong
don't i misunderstood it so what it's my
understanding for whatever five minutes
that i listened the whole bunch of
italian was washing over my brain
that's all good now don't force me to
try to remember
so a lot of things are done in
traditional class that
set people up for failure create a lot
of negativity
and i think these then become blocks
obstacles
if we could focus more on people
enjoying the process enjoy what you
understand
don't worry about what you don't
understand uh
enjoy the music of the language uh
you know i think those are some of the
some of the the obstacles that people
have
and i blame a lot traditional
instruction for a lot of yes
um i wanted to ask i know we're running
out of time i would be
we could be speaking forever um i have
three questions
other three questions and that's it i
promise um no problem
the first one is a lot of people they
haven't criticized me personally but
i've
been hearing this thing thrown at
polyglots all politics are just about
language learning they just know about
language learning so i want to ask you
what is it that makes you tick what is
it that make what is it that
apart from language learning uh i mean
things you're really interested in for
example in my case i'm really interested
in
philosophy history astronomy
physics astrophysics something that i
never talk about because mine
is a youtube channel dedicated to
language learning and sometimes people
say oh look it just speaks about
languages because that's the only thing
he talks about
he can talk about but it's a little bit
unfair so
i was wondering if you spend a lot of
time or sometimes
some part of your day doing reading
books or getting interested you're
interested in other things in general
well you know there is a saying that if
you want to get something done
ask a busy person so uh
i don't think polyglots spend their
whole day just on languages
polyglots are active people curious
about things
so in my case yes i'm very interested in
language
but language to me is a door to history
culture and so forth so when i was
learning ukrainian
a large part of my learning material was
i found audiobooks and corresponding
ebooks on the history of ukraine the
same for poland same for russia
so very interesting to explore eastern
and even czech
there's this wonderful series uh you
know tolkiesko
so through the language you discover the
history you get a better sense of the
people
i i my world map starts to
come alive and so now my world map
i'm looking at the middle east and and
while you're learning the language of
course
you understand the extent to which
turkish
peoples and and iranian peoples
who have some shared history and the
greeks and the arabs and
and so i i sort of digressed from my
language learning to go off and read
something on
on the history of that you know
area of the world and so that whole part
of the world
starts to come alive for me and i love
doing that
another aspect of it is watching you
know a series on netflix which my wife
likes to do we have english subtitles i
don't really understand what they're
saying in levantine arabic but i'm
picking up
30 40 50 of their dialogue which is very
you know stimulating for me but you also
you get into their life how do people
live in lebanon
of course the series is false like they
all drive fancy cars they all live in
beautiful homes
that's not the true picture of lebanon
but it does or turkey it's the same
it doesn't matter that's all fun but the
other things that i do i like sports
so i play golf my wife is a fanatic but
she pulls me out there and i do that i
before covid i was playing you know
old timers hockey like ice hockey three
times a week
i'm reading a book now on the history of
the uh the indian ocean
starting with the portuguese uh you know
and and
arab british french the whole thing
i like history i'm not into astrophysics
i don't have those kinds of interests uh
definitely into sports i'm a great
sports fan
but largely hockey like that's my sport
that i follow the professionals in and
and play
and of course i have my son and and uh
you know his three wife and three kids
here in in vancouver my uh
family in london uh so there's family
time there's friends
yeah there's lots of stuff that's
happening you have a full life beautiful
life
yeah yeah and languages make it only
better um another
only better yeah another question i have
is if someone comes to you says uh okay
steve well i just speak
i speak english but i can uh you know
get by everywhere in the world and
is it important to learn more languages
nowadays with all this technology coming
that we're being i don't know if you've
seen all these
info commercials of someone who talks to
a machine and that it translates and
these translators are becoming better
and better
not only like transcribing and
translating is it why is it i think it's
important to speak languages because you
can't substitute
a machine but do you think it's all the
more important to learn languages
nowadays or you think
you know maybe you can learn a couple of
languages and that's it because
technology is going to
take over it's going to help us
communicate in any way and we just need
maybe
english to to get by
well i would answer like in three ways
first of all
you can get by with just english and and
uh
but i would say both professionally
uh socially and in terms of my
personal interest things that i'm
curious about i have benefited
tremendously
from learning languages so with regard
to my professional career
if i hadn't been able to speak japanese
i would not have been able to
connect with i was in the wood business
i connected with downstream
retailers wholesalers home builders uh
which
this was not available to other people
who could only deal with the mitsubishi
mitsui you know the big trading
companies where
they have english language skills which
don't exist downstream
uh i you know we worked with suppliers
in sweden
everybody in sweden speaks english but
when i wanted to communicate with the
sawmill workers about the quality
requirements for the japanese market
and i spoke to them in swedish i had
more credibility they bought in
that helped you know i've been marketing
in france in germany
they speak english more or less but or i
certainly would have had an agent who
could have spoken english but connecting
with them in their language even in
germany
even in sweden just another level of
connection but you don't have to they're
very successful very many successful
business people
who do it just in english
also in so far as using this technology
so i was in vietnam
and i tried my damnedest to learn some
vietnamese before going like for two but
for a very short period of time like two
weeks get a phrase book listen listen
listen get a phrase book
and when i got to vietnam i couldn't do
a thing because in fact that's not
a realistic thing to do because you
can't you can't just come with a few
phrases and expect to communicate
so what i ended up doing was using my
iphone if i was very
you know i needed to communicate i could
speak into
you know google translate out come some
vietnamese we can even listen to the
vietnamese
he answers something so we can
communicate but that's not a
conversation
uh on the other hand i'm i'm on a flight
out of uh
out of um uh iguazu
in brazil person sitting beside me turns
out is ukrainian
and we talk in ukrainian
all the way to rio and we could have
been speaking in
in portuguese that's a different level
from sitting there going into your
iphone and speaking into the iphone and
the iphone comes out and says something
it's just not the same it's not the same
so that the personal sense of
satisfaction not to mention
reading about the history of ukraine
reading about
you know things related to you know when
i was learning greek i got this podcast
on the building of the parthenon
i mean you're not going to do that on
your iphone so if you are interested in
these things
then there's a much deeper level of
cultural satisfaction from learning
these languages
and and it does improve your
opportunities
sort of professionally but it's not a
condition i mean a lot of people
get by with just english sure anyway
this already answers the question
uh the third question i want to ask you
the benefits that you reap from speaking
multiple languages are immense it really
changes your
immense you know changed my life yeah
mine too
don't trust me you're fine too um
absolutely okay well
i think that's it thank you for the
wonderful information it's been a
pleasure well it's
fun and and thank you for all you do and
to promote more interest and
in language learning and as i said in my
other interview i salute you on the
quality of your
of your languages uh your pronunciation
is astounding
don't fire me too much i've flooded you
before you're flattering now you can
tell the audience my audience where they
can find you and we'll kind of put
everything in the in the description box
okay well uh you know link is lingq.com
i have a youtube channel called lingo
steve
and i think my blog is the linguist you
know what i
will put it in the description i'll put
everything in the description
but i'm i'm we're a group i should say
that the
polyglot community
is one of the most sort of mutually
supportive
groups if you go to a polyglot meeting
there
and sometimes you get people say well
these polyglots they're sort of
peacocking strutting their stuff and
showing off
that is not at all what it's like you
can go everybody
is supportive everybody is if you're you
are with friends everybody likes you no
one criticizes you
it's a great great community the
atmosphere of the polygon gathering and
the polyglot conference and now
in canada i think it's being long
festival festival
that's just great so whenever if you
have a chance if you've never heard of
these conferences
type polygon conference polygon
gathering and we will be meeting me
steve and a lot of other a lot of other
fantastic
uh like-minded people thank you very
much uh this is it for now okay thank
you for watching and for listening and
i'll talk to you i'll see you
in on youtube very soon bye ciao bye-bye
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