The Origin of National Identity

Summary

This script delves into the historical intricacies of the Protestant Reformation and its profound impact on the formation of modern Germany. It highlights how the Reformation, initially a German religious movement, led to the bloody 30 Years War and the Treaty of Westphalia, which in turn influenced religious and political identities. The narrative explores the transition from a universal Christian identity to a more personal, localized one, and the subsequent 'search for the national epic' in the 18th and 19th centuries. The Brothers Grimm's role in shaping a German identity through language and mythology is underscored, alongside the evolution of nationalism and its implications for modern nation-states.

Takeaways

• 😀 The Protestant Reformation started primarily as a German religious movement, despite Germany not being a unified country at the time.
• 🏰 The concept of 'Germany' as a unified nation is a modern construct, not recognized in medieval times.
• 🌍 The Reformation led to the 30 Years War, one of the bloodiest periods in Western Europe, resulting from religious conflicts between Catholics and Protestants.
• 📜 The Treaty of Westphalia ended the 30 Years War and established the principle that religion was determined by the ruler of the territory, not a universal Christian identity.
• 🔍 The shift in identity from a universal Christian story to a political one led to a personalization of religious and spiritual identity.
• 🎭 The search for a 'national epic' emerged as a way to forge a collective identity in the absence of a shared empire or religion.
• 📚 The Brothers Grimm, known for their fairy tales, were also philologists who contributed to the creation of a German identity through language and mythology.
• 👥 Jacob Grimm's role in the first German Parliament highlighted the importance of language and storytelling in shaping a national identity.
• 🏛 Nationalism evolved to become a more totalizing identity, capable of overshadowing local traditions and regional identities.
• 🇺🇸 The American experience with local traditions and decentralization contrasts with the more centralized European models of nation-building.
• 🛣️ The development of infrastructure like the interstate highway system and the interstate commerce clause in the U.S. Constitution has impacted the balance between local and centralized authority.

Q & A

What was the primary location of the Protestant Reformation?

The Protestant Reformation primarily took place in Germany, although it later spread to other regions such as France, Switzerland, and England.

Why is Germany sometimes referred to as a 'made-up country' in the context of the Reformation?

Germany is considered a 'made-up country' because, during the time of the Reformation, it was not a unified nation but a collection of various regions and states, and people living there did not identify themselves as Germans.

What significant event resulted from the Protestant Reformation?

The 30 Years War, a bloody conflict between Roman Catholics and Protestants in Western Europe, was a significant event that resulted from the Protestant Reformation.

What was the outcome of the 30 Years War in terms of religious identity?

The outcome of the 30 Years War was the Treaty of Westphalia, which led to the principle of 'cuius regio, eius religio,' meaning that the religion of a principality was determined by its ruler, thus linking religious identity to political affiliation.

How did the Treaty of Westphalia change the hierarchy of identity in Europe?

The Treaty of Westphalia led to a shift where religious identity became secondary to political identity, with people's faith being determined by the ruler of the region they lived in, rather than a universal Christian identity.

What is the concept of 'national epic' in the context of the script?

The 'national epic' refers to the search for a narrative that could unite and define the identity of a nation, especially after the decline of the Holy Roman Empire and the fragmentation of religious unity in Europe.

Who were the Brothers Grimm, and what is their significance in the creation of a German identity?

The Brothers Grimm, Jacob and Wilhelm, were philologists and collectors of folklore. They played a significant role in creating a German identity by compiling and editing old stories, fairy tales, and creating a comprehensive dictionary of the German language.

What role did Jacob Grimm play in the early German Parliament?

Jacob Grimm was given a seat in the first German Parliament due to his contributions to German philology and folklore, which helped in shaping a German identity based on language and shared cultural heritage.

How did the concept of nationalism evolve from the older modes of identity?

Nationalism evolved to become a more totalizing identity that could overshadow local and regional identities, with the nation-state taking precedence over other forms of allegiance, such as to a king or a religious institution.

What challenges did the American project face in maintaining local traditions and autonomy?

The American project faced challenges such as the creation of the interstate highway system and the expansion of federal authority through the interstate commerce clause, which potentially threatened the autonomy and unique traditions of local regions.

How did the concept of a citizen of a nation emerge?

The concept of a citizen of a nation emerged from the idea of a city-state in the ancient world, extended across many cities and a large geographic area, leading to the modern understanding of national citizenship.

Outlines

00:00

🏛 The Protestant Reformation and the Birth of Germany

This paragraph discusses the origins of the Protestant Reformation, emphasizing its beginnings in Germany, a region that was not a unified country during the medieval period. It highlights the misconception that Germany has always been a single nation, pointing out that it's a modern construct. The Reformation led to the Thirty Years War, a bloody conflict in Western Europe between Roman Catholics and Protestants. The Treaty of Westphalia, which concluded the war, resulted in the principle of 'cuius regio, eius religio,' meaning that the religion of a principality was determined by its ruler, thus collapsing religious identity into political identity. This shift marked a transition from a universal Christian story to a more localized and personal identity, setting the stage for the modern concept of self-identified religious and political affiliations.

05:03

📚 The Search for National Identity and the Brothers Grimm

The second paragraph delves into the quest for a national epic in the wake of the Reformation and the decline of the Holy Roman Empire. It discusses the role of the Brothers Grimm, who are known for collecting and editing fairy tales but were also significant in the creation of a German identity. Jacob Grimm, a philologist, contributed to this identity by compiling a comprehensive dictionary of the German language and a volume on German mythology. His work was seen as a way to define German identity based on language and ancestry rather than religion or political boundaries. The paragraph also touches on the political implications of this identity formation, hinting at the potential for unhealthy nationalism that would later emerge.

10:03

🌐 The Evolution of National Identity and Its Impact on Local Traditions

The final paragraph explores the concept of nationalism and its evolution from allegiance to a monarch to a more encompassing identity that can overshadow local and regional differences. It uses the example of France, where the imposition of a standardized French language and education system during the Napoleonic era and the French Revolution aimed to create a unified national identity. The paragraph also discusses the challenges to the American project of maintaining local traditions and autonomy in the face of centralized authority and the impact of modern infrastructure like the interstate highway system and the interstate commerce clause on local identities.

Keywords

💡Protestants Reformation

The Protestant Reformation refers to a major movement within Christianity in the early 16th century that led to the creation of Protestant churches. It was initiated by figures like Martin Luther and John Calvin, who sought to reform the Roman Catholic Church. In the video, the Reformation is mentioned as a starting point for significant historical changes, including the 30 Years War and the eventual Treaty of Westphalia, which had profound effects on the religious and political landscape of Europe.

💡30 Years War

The 30 Years War (1618-1648) was one of the longest and most destructive conflicts in European history, occurring in the aftermath of the Reformation. It was primarily a religious conflict between Roman Catholics and Protestants, but also had political dimensions. The war is highlighted in the video as a bloody period that led to the Treaty of Westphalia and the fragmentation of religious identity along political lines.

💡Treaty of Westphalia

The Treaty of Westphalia, signed in 1648, marked the end of the 30 Years War and is considered a cornerstone in the development of the modern international system of sovereign states. The treaty is mentioned in the video as a pivotal event that determined religion by the principality one lived in, thus influencing the development of political and religious identities.

💡National Epic

A national epic is a lengthy narrative poem that reflects and glorifies the history, traditions, and values of a nation. In the context of the video, the search for a national epic signifies the attempt to create a unifying narrative for a nation, especially in the absence of a shared religious or imperial identity, as was the case in post-Reformation Europe.

💡Philology

Philology is the study of language in written historical sources and the historical development of languages. Jacob Grimm, mentioned in the video, was a philologist who contributed to the understanding of the German language and its history. His work is tied to the theme of the video as it reflects the effort to establish a German identity based on language and cultural heritage.

💡Jacob Grimm

Jacob Grimm, along with his brother Wilhelm, is known for his contributions to the collection of German fairy tales and his philological work. In the video, Jacob Grimm is discussed as an important figure in the creation of a German identity through his scholarly work on the German language and mythology.

💡German Identity

The concept of German identity in the video refers to the cultural, linguistic, and historical characteristics that define what it means to be German. The video discusses how this identity was shaped in the wake of the Reformation and the 30 Years War, and how figures like Jacob Grimm played a role in its development.

💡Nationalism

Nationalism is a political ideology that involves a strong identification with one's nation, often to the point of prioritizing the interests of one's nation above all else. The video touches on how nationalism emerged and evolved, particularly in the context of the German state, and how it can lead to a more totalizing identity that can overshadow local and regional identities.

💡Interstate Highway System

The Interstate Highway System in the United States is a network of controlled-access highways that has facilitated travel and commerce across the country. The video mentions this system as a factor that has contributed to the centralization of American identity and the potential erosion of local traditions and autonomy.

💡Interstate Commerce Clause

The Interstate Commerce Clause is a part of the United States Constitution that grants Congress the power to regulate commerce among the states. In the video, it is discussed as a legal mechanism that has contributed to the expansion of federal authority and the centralization of identity in the United States.

Highlights

The Protestant Reformation began primarily as a German religious movement, despite Germany not being a unified country at the time.

The concept of Germany as a unified nation is a modern construct, with its inhabitants historically not identifying as 'Germans'.

The term 'Germany' and the identity of being German have evolved over time and are not as old as commonly believed.

The Thirty Years War, a result of the Reformation, was one of the bloodiest periods in Western Europe's history.

The Treaty of Westphalia led to the determination of one's religion by the principality in which they lived, rather than a universal Christian identity.

Religion shifted from being a universal identity to a more localized one, secondary to political identity.

The search for a national epic emerged as a response to the loss of a unified religious and imperial identity.

The Brothers Grimm are known for collecting and editing fairy tales, but their work also contributed to the formation of a German identity.

Jacob Grimm's philological work, including the creation of a comprehensive German dictionary, played a role in shaping German identity.

The German Revolution and the establishment of the first German Parliament saw Jacob Grimm as a significant figure due to his contributions to German identity.

National identity became more totalizing, with the ability to override local and regional identities.

Nationalism developed into a powerful force that could homogenize diverse regions under a single identity.

The American project initially embraced local diversity and resisted centralized imposition of ways of life.

The creation of the interstate highway system and the interstate commerce clause in the U.S. Constitution have impacted the balance of localized and centralized power.

The discussion highlights the evolution of identity from religious and imperial to national and personal, with implications for modern nation-states.

The transcript explores the complexities of identity formation, from the Reformation to modern nation-states, and the challenges of maintaining local diversity within larger political structures.

Transcripts

Along Comes the Protestant Reformation

right and the result of the Reformation

it has to be remembered

that the Reformation took place in

Germany

right it's primarily at in his

Beginnings primarily a German religious

movement right obviously it gives France

and Switzerland and England other places

but originally it's primarily a German

religious movement except that

the Reformation didn't take place in

Germany because Germany did not exist

Germany is a made-up country

um fake news everybody

um no Germany's Germany's a made-up

country right there if you look at a

medieval map there's no Germany on that

map nope nobody who lived in the place

that we call Germany now would have

called themselves Germans actually they

still don't call themselves Germans but

um but uh a really fun game is actually

uh what's the name of German in other

languages and like every yeah what do

you call what do you guys call in French

Alma yeah right right uh uh because like

the all the main region right right so

so it's yeah nobody who lived there

called themselves Germans right this

this German but Germany is a modern

construct yeah but the way that it was

built

the story sort of begins in the

Protestant Reformation

I don't have like a ton of time to go

into this but let's say that uh as a

result of the Protestant Reformation we

got something called the 30 Years War in

Western Europe which is one of the

bloodiest periods in Western Europe

actually not not the Middle Ages right

but but this is this is now in the

modern period

um 30 years were incredibly bloody

struggled between Roman Catholics and

Protestants over basically a very small

slice of a very small slice of Western

Europe yeah and the result the end

result of the 30 years war is something

called the Treaty of Westphalia and one

of the things that comes about as a

result of that treaty is that they

decide okay your religion will be

determined simply by whatever

principality you live in so like if you

live in this little province

um

and some of these are quite small

basically the size of what in Texas

would be a county

um I don't know do you guys do you guys

call them parishes or counties or like

what's your what's the what's the unit

in Canada beyond the city

uh yeah we do have uh we do have

something like that I forget what

they're called yeah yeah yeah accounting

yeah yeah so um uh but basically these

very small principalities and your

religion if you live there would just be

whatever the official whatever the

religion of and so what happened was

that instead of instead of the instead

of the the identity conferred by the

Christian story being kind of the at the

very outside level

is that it collapsed down actually

several levels into the hierarchy and so

it goes from being here's a

universalizing story of passion week and

posca right of Rome and Greece of the

Trojan War and you know Saint John the

Baptist right all these things like this

is our universalizing story that kind of

is the container that holds everything

together and now that collapses actually

several rungs down the ladder right

um to now it's actually secondary to

your political identity now

once you kind of understand when that

happened and how that happened you can

then understand how it's actually a

pretty short trip to go from there to

now my religious Identity or my

spiritual Identity or whatever is

something that I confer upon myself

personal personal right yeah but but

also like but isn't that also like

political identity also has collapsed

down to that level now yeah so you're

you're you can freely associate with

whatever political party you want at

least in some parts of the world

um but you know talking to the United

States you can freely associate with

whatever political party you want and

and everything about your identity has

collapsed down to the level of the self

of the self

so when all of this is going on though

and before it kind of gets all the way

down to that level

in the primarily in 18th and 19th

century Europe

you have the emerging of what's

sometimes called the search for the

national epic yeah so why do we need the

national epic because we're not part of

an Empire anymore Holy Roman or

otherwise we're not part of an Empire

anymore and we are not part of and we're

not even part of the same religion

anymore

right it's a bit I mean and listen

nowadays Protestants Roman Catholics

Orthodox like we can go out together and

we can have a beer and we can talk about

our differences and all these different

things nobody stabs anybody and that's

great I love that

don't get me wrong

but if you think for a moment that

somebody you know in uh the 30 Years War

believed that oh the Roman Catholic over

there and and me we're the same religion

basically and we're just crippling over

a few small differences like

they this is not how people thought yeah

yeah they weren't killing each other

over small differences let's say so

anyway

um so you don't you're not held together

by the same religion anymore and you're

not held together by the same uh and and

you're not even held together by like

the the sort of like the Imperial story

right and so now what we need to do is

just try to find some other narrative

that can collect and hold our identity

together and this is the this is why

there's the search for the national epic

so something a lot of people don't know

um you're of course aware of Jakob and

Wilhelm Grimm the brothers Grim yeah

right and uh they're famous for a bunch

of fairy tales which they did not write

um they're the fairy tales that we know

is like the fairy tales of the brothers

Grim uh they were edited mainly by

Wilhelm but uh but they didn't write

those stories yeah what they did was

they went around collecting all the

oldest stories like the the children's

stories is what they would call them but

they went around just like correcting

all the old wives stories and all the

old children's stories and things like

this from these these tiny little

idiosyncratic you know valleys in

different places and what is now Germany

um and they're collecting they're

collecting these stories because the

oldest stories preserve the oldest words

and Jacob Grimm is a philologist he's

interested in really old words and so

his two great works that he composed

were

um the largest and most comprehensive

dictionary of the German language which

has ever been created and then also the

the uh

a an accompanying volume sometimes it's

called Teutonic mythology or

German mythology or something like that

it's got its own name in German

uh which I won't try to pronounce here

uh since we're on the internet but

um anyway you've got you've got

uh these two massive volumes one is this

is the German language and the other is

this is German mythology and yeah uh

they're both fascinating works his

tutank mythology is let's say has a lot

of problems from the perspective of

modern scholarship because once again

there were a bunch of gaps and he just

tried to fill the gaps in by guesswork

essentially

um and then but the fairy tales were you

know basically he was sending his grad

students out because grad students are

the uh the Mindless minions of the

academic world so he would send his grad

students out to basically collect these

stories and then later they edited them

together in a volume and that turned out

to be much more popular and and let's

say more enduring than the other two

works yeah but what a lot of people

don't know is that uh following the

German Revolution

um sometimes it's called the March March

Revolution uh when the uh when the

National Assembly of the National

Assembly uh of the German people is like

the first German Parliament uh was what

came together

Jakob Grimm had a seat

it wasn't just a seat in the parliament

but it was like a special chair not

really and he had a vote and everything

else and he got disenchanted with

politics it didn't really last but the

reason that they gave him this spot

in the like the very first German

Parliament ever

was because he was he was the great

German philologist he was the great

German you could say Storyteller in that

he was telling by collecting all these

old stories and trying to package them

and arrange them what he's actually

doing is

creating an identity

that is German yeah

an identity that's based in that's based

in the language that you speak

and who your ancestors were more than it

is in what your religion is or where you

live or those other things and so one of

the great you know questions of the time

was well you know as there as the German

state is being founded and there's

there's lots of like little revolutions

and different governing bodies and all

these different things it's difficult to

to track even if you have it all laid

out in front of you but basically one of

the big questions that they're trying to

answer is what does it actually mean to

be German

but it's not a religious question

anymore

right it's not a it's not it's not you

know you know so like what does it mean

to be German and

um

obviously eventually attempts to answer

that question are going to develop in

some really kind of unhealthy ways yeah

yeah and more nationalistic ways the way

we understand them now right right the

ancient world that like if there had

been some kind of German identity let's

say in France there was definitely more

of a let's say a basic French identity

even though all the regions still there

was still that issue where all the

region and like your French identity was

basically that you know you're somehow

related to the king of France like

that's where your French identity comes

from you know you owe allegiance to the

king but then you probably don't speak

French you don't speak the same French

right in France does you speak some

other local dialect or whatever and and

you don't see that this allegiance to

the king of France as this totalizing

thing right as this thing that it's like

I am French and the way even that the

French would understand that today yeah

yeah I mean that's the thing about

nationalism as opposed to let's say the

older mode is is that your national

identity is now much more totalizing to

the point that it

um has the ability to actually

obliterate the things beneath it

um I mean obviously it's the French is a

good example when Napoleon took over he

basically you know imposed Parisian

French on the rest of France right to

make it one language he he he he

basically imposed a an education system

on to all the different regions and

those that you know and you can see that

all like during the revolution you can

see that happening it's wild you know

the the the the local places that resist

the revolution you know they get they

get slaughtered and people just get

slaughtered because they they there's

this one thing nacion right that that's

where even the idea is is kind of born

right this idea of a citizen of a Nation

the way that we just did it now

yeah and it's a sort of uh a weird

extension you could say of like the the

old really old classical idea of the

city-state yeah but now impose across

many cities and over a very large

geographic area until you get to these

places where you have the situation

today where Modern Nation States are so

impossibly large I mean this is part of

why I keep demurring on like when we're

gonna do like what's the symbolism of

America

uh video right part of it is is that

like which America yeah like well don't

you think that one of the reasons for

the success of America has been that it

had had been at least for a while had

been able to kind of recast that

multiplicity right a sense in which

there were local Traditions local places

you know people people in different

regions just have different ways of

living and we kind of don't feel like

the like the the centralized Authority

has the right or the capacity to impose

ways of being ways of thinking on on the

people in the local areas

yes there yes there is a uh

uh I think that was part of a lot of the

early Genius of the American project and

the two the two things that really

challenged it and maybe broke it

um although we'll see we're still I mean

we're brand new country so we'll see but

uh one is one is the the creation of the

interstate highway system yeah you know

the ability you know which is

very importantly uh it's like it's like

now it's the artery right the the

arterial system that connects the

country but very importantly like it's

it's owned and paid for by

decentralized power the federal

government right but then also and also

along with that

um you know kind of developing as well

as the is the there's something in our

Constitution called the interstate

commerce clause

which basically gives the federal

government authority to regulate

anything that might possibly touch

interstate commerce and I don't want to

get like too much into like American

constitutional stuff and politics but

you could just say that the the the kind

of the Brilliance of the great localized

Pro uh uh you know being able to recast

that locality like you just said

that start that is that started to break

down when those two things and obviously

airplanes have made things worse