Why AMD’s Bad Benchmarks Are BAD! Investigating The Lie
Summary
TLDRThe video script discusses AMD's Zen3 architecture, comparing its gaming performance to Intel's newer Raptor Lake CPUs. It criticizes AMD for misleading benchmarks using an entry-level GPU, which mask the true performance differences. The script also reviews AMD's pricing strategies and the introduction of the 5900 XT and 5800 XT processors. The host, Steve, retests these CPUs with a more powerful GPU, revealing significant performance gaps in favor of Intel. The video concludes by emphasizing the importance of accurate CPU benchmarking and AMD's marketing missteps.
Takeaways
- 😀 AMD's Zen3 architecture, introduced in 2019, is claimed to be faster for gaming than Intel's Raptor Lake architecture for 13th and 14th generation Core processors.
- 📊 AMD presented graphs showing the Ryzen 9 5950X (previously 5900 XT) outperforming Intel's Core i7 13700K by up to 4% in some scenarios.
- 💰 The Ryzen 9 5950X is positioned as a more cost-effective option compared to the Intel Core i7 13700K, which costs at least $330 USD, while the 5950X is priced at $360 USD.
- 🤔 AMD initially announced a price for the upcoming 5950X, but later retracted it, possibly due to realizing the impracticality of announcing pricing for unreleased products.
- 🐻 The video criticizes AMD's marketing tactics, accusing them of misleading consumers with performance claims that do not hold up under scrutiny.
- 🎮 The video discusses the use of GPU-limited CPU tests, which can obscure the true performance capabilities of CPUs, especially when paired with older GPUs like the Radeon RX 6600.
- 🕹️ The script mentions several games used for benchmarking, including 'Party Animals' and 'Cyberpunk 2077', but criticizes the choice of games and testing conditions as not being representative of real-world CPU performance.
- 📉 The video demonstrates that when tested with a more powerful GPU like the Radeon RX 7900 XT, Intel's processors outperform AMD's Zen3 CPUs by a significant margin.
- 💡 The script emphasizes the importance of using appropriate benchmarking methods to accurately assess CPU performance, particularly in gaming scenarios.
- 🛒 The video suggests that AMD's new 5950X might make sense for productivity tasks if priced competitively, but for gaming, other options like the Ryzen 7 5800X3D could offer better value.
- 📝 The author expresses frustration with AMD's marketing approach, which necessitates additional benchmarking to correct misconceptions about CPU performance.
Q & A
What is the main topic of the video script?
-The main topic of the video script is a critique of AMD's marketing claims regarding the performance of their Zen 3 processors compared to Intel's Core processors in gaming scenarios.
When was AMD's Zen 3 architecture released?
-AMD's Zen 3 architecture was released back in late 2019.
What is the issue with AMD's performance claims for their Zen 3 processors?
-The issue is that AMD's performance claims for their Zen 3 processors are considered misleading because they were based on tests that heavily GPU limited the CPUs, using an older Radeon RX 6600 GPU, which does not accurately represent real-world gaming performance.
What is the significance of the Ryzen 9 5900 XT in the script?
-The Ryzen 9 5900 XT is mentioned as an example of AMD's Zen 3 processor that was claimed to be competitive with Intel's Core i7 13700 K, but the script argues that this claim is misleading due to the testing methodology used by AMD.
Why is the Radeon RX 6600 not suitable for CPU benchmarking in this context?
-The Radeon RX 6600 is not suitable for CPU benchmarking in this context because it is an older, entry-level GPU that can create a heavy GPU bottleneck, thus not accurately reflecting the performance capabilities of modern CPUs in gaming scenarios.
What is the role of the game 'Party Animals' in the script?
-The game 'Party Animals' is used as an example of a game that is not CPU demanding and therefore not suitable for CPU benchmarking, as it does not provide meaningful data about CPU performance in gaming.
What is the criticism regarding AMD's pricing strategy for the 5800 XT?
-The criticism is that AMD initially announced the 5800 XT at a price of $250 US, which was later walked back, and the script suggests that this price point was not justified given the minimal performance increase over the 5800 X.
What is the purpose of the sponsor spot featuring Thermogrizzly's Cryos Sheet Graphene Thermal Pads?
-The purpose of the sponsor spot is to promote Thermogrizzly's Cryos Sheet Graphene Thermal Pads as an alternative to thermal pastes, highlighting their benefits such as high thermal conductivity and durability without the risk of drying out.
What is the script's stance on benchmarking CPUs with low-end GPUs?
-The script's stance is that benchmarking CPUs with low-end GPUs is a flawed approach that can mislead consumers about the true performance capabilities of CPUs in gaming scenarios.
What is the conclusion of the video script regarding AMD's Zen 3 processors and their gaming performance?
-The conclusion is that AMD's Zen 3 processors, as represented by the 5900 XT and 5800 XT, do not perform as well in gaming as claimed by AMD when tested with more demanding games and a higher-end GPU like the Radeon RX 7900 XT.
Outlines
🤖 AMD Zen3 vs. Intel Raptor Lake Gaming Performance
This paragraph discusses AMD's claim that their Zen3 architecture, originally released in 2019, still outperforms Intel's Raptor Lake architecture for gaming. AMD presented graphs showing the Ryzen 9 550x XT, which is a rebranded 5900 XT, outperforming Intel's Core i7 13700 K by up to 4% in gaming. The paragraph also touches on the pricing of these processors, with AMD's initially announced prices being walked back, suggesting a potential for more competitive pricing with the upcoming 5500 XT. Additionally, the script mentions a sponsorship by Thermal Grizzly for their Cryos sheet graphene thermal pads, which are an alternative to thermal pastes with the advantage of not degrading over time.
🎮 Debunking AMD's Gaming Benchmarks with GPU Bottlenecks
The second paragraph critiques AMD's methodology in benchmarking their new Zen3 processors against Intel's offerings. AMD paired their CPUs with the Radeon RX 6600, an older GPU, to create a heavy GPU bottleneck, which the script argues is an inaccurate way to measure CPU performance in games. The script then presents retested data using a more current GPU, the Radeon RX 7900 XT, across a variety of games, showing significant performance differences between AMD's and Intel's processors that were not evident in AMD's original tests. The paragraph also highlights the use of certain games that are not CPU-intensive, further questioning AMD's benchmark choices.
📊 A Deeper Dive into AMD's Benchmarking Methods and Results
This paragraph continues the analysis of AMD's benchmarking methods, pointing out the discrepancies between their claims and the script's own testing results. It discusses the use of the RX 6600 as a limiting factor in the tests and the subsequent retesting with the RX 7900 XT, which revealed more significant performance advantages for Intel's processors. The script also addresses AMD's claims of small performance advantages in certain games, which are contradicted by the retest results. The paragraph emphasizes the importance of using more demanding games and appropriate hardware for accurate CPU benchmarking.
🚫 The Flaws of AMD's Benchmarking Approach and Future Testing
The final paragraph concludes the critique of AMD's benchmarking approach, arguing that testing CPUs with low-end GPUs is misleading and does not provide useful information about real-world gaming performance. It suggests that AMD's marketing strategy was unnecessary and potentially damaging to their reputation. The script also expresses the author's reluctance to benchmark the new CPUs upon release due to the obvious performance differences already established. However, the author commits to providing benchmarks to clarify the situation for viewers. The paragraph ends with a call to action for viewers to support the channel and a sign-off from the host, Steve.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Zen3 Architecture
💡Ryzen 9 5900 XT
💡Core i7 13700 K
💡GPU Bottleneck
💡Thermog Grizzly
💡Zen 5 Processor Series
💡Benchmarking
💡Radeon RX 6600
💡Productivity CPU
💡Ryzen 7 7800X 3D
💡Marketing Blunder
Highlights
AMD's Zen3 architecture, released in 2019, is claimed to be faster for gaming than Intel's Raptor Lake architecture in their 13th and 14th generation Core series processors.
AMD provided graphs showing Ryzen 9 5900 XT outperforming Intel Core i7-13700K in certain scenarios by up to 4%.
The price of the Ryzen 9 5900 XT is $360, compared to the Intel Core i7-13700K at $330, suggesting potential cost-effectiveness for AMD's processor.
AMD initially announced a $359 price for the upcoming Ryzen 9 5900 XT but retracted this, possibly due to strategic pricing considerations.
Thermog Grizzly's Cryos sheet graphite thermal pads are highlighted as an alternative to thermal pastes, offering high thermal conductivity without degradation over time.
The video discusses AMD's misleading marketing practices, particularly regarding the performance claims of their Zen 5 processor series and the 5900 XT and 5800 XT CPUs.
AMD's use of the Radeon RX 6600 for CPU testing is criticized for creating a GPU bottleneck that does not accurately reflect CPU performance in gaming.
The video includes testing of a range of CPUs with the Radeon RX 7900 XT to provide a more realistic assessment of CPU performance in gaming.
Games such as 'Party Animals' and 'NRAA Blade Point' are shown to be poor choices for CPU benchmarking due to their low CPU demand and heavy GPU dependency.
The video demonstrates that AMD's claims of the 5800 XT being 12% faster than Intel's 13600 K in 'Cyberpunk 2077' are not supported by more rigorous testing conditions.
The use of the RX 6600 in testing is shown to be inadequate for accurately benchmarking modern CPUs, with the Intel 13600 K outperforming AMD's CPUs by a significant margin in 'Forspoken'.
The video argues against the practice of benchmarking CPUs with low-end GPUs, stating that it can mislead consumers about actual gaming performance.
AMD's benchmarking methods are criticized for being 'bad and unnecessary', with the suggestion that they should focus on pricing and value rather than performance claims.
The video concludes that AMD's Zen3 processors, despite being older, do not offer better gaming performance than Intel's latest architectures, contrary to AMD's claims.
The Ryzen 7 7800X 3D is shown to not have a performance advantage over the Core i3-12100 when tested with the RX 6600, highlighting the importance of accurate benchmarking.
The host, Steve, expresses frustration with AMD's marketing approach and the need to benchmark the new CPUs to correct misconceptions about their performance.
The video encourages viewers to subscribe and join the channel's Discord server for exclusive content and live streams.
Transcripts
[Music]
did you know that amd's old zen3
architecture released back in late 2019
is actually faster for gaming than
Intel's rapake architecture used for
their 13th and 14th generation core
series processors yeah now it is though
and AMD has some graphs to prove it have
a look at these see the ryzen 9 550x
which is now also a 5900 XT is worst
case a core i7 13700 K and best case
it's like 4% faster that's pretty
awesome right well hell yeah that's
awesome the 13700 Cas still costs at
least $330 us while the 550x is $360 us
therefore we can probably assume that
the upcoming $500 XT will be even
cheaper maybe not sure AMD did initially
say that it was going to be
$359 but then they quickly walked that
back probably after realizing that
announcing pricing for upcoming
processes while as high as a is a bad
idea if only the radon division was that
measured AMD also announced the 5800 XT
at $250 us but they also walked that one
back again they were obviously as high
as a kite when they came up with that
price that's the only explanation for
why they would charge 25% more than the
5800 X for a mere 2% increase in clock
speed that's okay though we've all done
it and it's why we're going to allow AMD
to come back at a later date with a less
batshit crazy price but before they do
today's sponsor spot is brought to you
by thermog Grizzly and their cryos sheet
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they offer very high thermal
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so they can't dry out and therefore
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even liquid Metals Crow sheet is very
easy to use it's extremely durable and
is available in a range of sizes to suit
most applications I've personally done
some high-end GPU testing with Crow
sheet and the results were impressive
very similar and back to that of liquid
metal but without the mess and of course
no risk of drying out so for more
information please check the link in the
video
description okay so if you watched our
recent Q&A Series where we pulled AMD up
on their insanely misleading an
anti-consumer marketing BS you might be
thinking Steve stop flogging that dead
horse we get it AMD was naughty and to
that I say that dead horse we're going
to flog it some more and it's going to
be educational now if you weren't
fortunate enough to have watch our Q&A
Series this month let me quickly fill in
the blanks during the computex trade
show a few weeks back AMD announced
their upcoming Zen 5 processor series
and in a press deck that was sent to
Media they also announced new but not
really new zen3 processors basically bin
versions of silicon that they were
already selling which they called the
5900 XT and 5800 XT these CPUs on their
own are fine they're not exciting we
don't need need them but whatever sure
AMD release them the problem is AMD
included two performance slides for
these CPUs which I've already shown you
and as you saw they claimed that these
Bend zen3 parts were as fast or really
slightly faster for gaming than Intel's
core i7 13700 K and core i5 at 13600 KF
and that's a whopping big lie in order
to achieve this deception AMD heavily
GPU limited the CPU tests pairing all
CPUs with the radon RX 6600 an
entry-level previous generation GPU
that's 3 years old now essentially what
this does is level the playing field
neutralizing any potential performance
difference between these CPUs resulting
in nothing more than an RX 6600
Benchmark benchmarking CPUs with a heavy
GPU bottleneck is a bad idea at the best
of times as it tells you nothing about
how the CPU really performs in games and
it's made even worse when you don't give
basic information like what the average
frame rate was for all we know the RX
6600 could have been rendering just
30fps so I've decided to look into what
exactly was going on but more than that
I've included some data with a more
reasonable GPU the radon RX 7900 XT
which might be a highend product right
now but by early next year we have it on
good authority that this is going to be
mid-tier
performance so for this testing I'll be
using the games that AMD bench marked
with at 1080p using the high or highest
quality preset but with upscaling and
any R tracing disabled AMD has included
an odd range of games here such as party
animals which I had to purchase on Steam
specifically for this video I promise I
didn't wasn't playing party animals
before this video but not to worry my
11-year-old daughter now is and she
quite enjoys it I've also gone and
tested a dozen very different CPUs as I
believe this illustrates very well just
how silly testing CPUs with a strong GPU
bottleneck is so let's get into it okay
let's start with everyone's favorite
video game party
animals using the radon RX 6600 which
probably unsurprisingly is powerful
enough to deliver High refresh rate
light performance in this title so I
guess in that sense AMD hasn't been too
dodgy here except for the fact that this
is a terrible game for CPU benchmarking
as it barely uses the CP
and the RX 6600 is still a very strong
bottleneck for any relatively modern SL
highend CPU now AMD didn't test the 5900
XT with party animals but they did with
the 5800 XT and they claimed that the
5800 XT was 2% faster than the core i5
13600 K but in our testing we found the
core i5 to be 2% faster maybe it's the
2% boost of core clocks that helped the
5800 XT here but also I don't suspect
that'll be enough to pull it ahead of
the core i5 also if we look at the 1%
lows which AMD didn't test or at least
they didn't provide the data for the
core i5 is 6%
faster but what if we retest party
animals with the Radeon RX 7900 XT while
doing so changes quite a bit and now the
13600 K is 133% faster than the 5800 X
When comparing the average frame rate
this is still a poor title for testing
the gaming performance of CPUs because
as I said it's just not very CPU
demanding but at least this more CPU
limited data provides us with a bit more
insight into how these CPUs really
perform nraa blade point is another game
that I haven't used for testing before
but this one seems a bit more legitimate
as a CPU Benchmark that is assuming that
you're not using a radon RX 6600
seriously though this one is super dodgy
by AMD using an RX 6600 you're about as
GPU bound as you could possibly be even
with a ryzon 5 2600 it's able to match
the 7800x 3D and 14900 K so this data is
extremely useless and it blows my mind
how often we see requests for this sort
of testing even with the 1700 XT
installed the game is still for the most
part GPU limited so nraa blade point
doesn't appear to be a great CPU
Benchmark oddly AMD used this game to
claim that the 5900 XT is 4% faster than
the 13700 K which is really odd because
with an RX 6600 there's simply no chance
that's true and with a faster GPU like
the 17900 XT the Intel processor is
actually a few per faster but yeah not a
great CPU Benchmark this one Tony 10 is
Wonderland is a game that we have used
in the past for CPU benchmarking but
then quickly dropped it after it became
apparent that it just wasn't demanding
enough for testing modern processors and
that's especially true when using an RX
6600 AMD did claim no performance
difference between the upcoming 5900 XT
and 13700 K in this title and we see
that's certainly true here again when
using a previous generation entry level
GPU but even with the 7900 XT installed
we see that Tiny Tina's wonderlands just
isn't that CPU demanding with no real
performance drop off until we get right
down to the super old ryzen 5 2600 so
again AMD used another game that doesn't
really stress the CPU for a CPU
benchmark and then proceeded to ensure
that it was as GPU limited as possible
by using an RX
6600 okay cyberpunk 2077 finally we have
a game that is actually quite demanding
on the CPU or really very demanding or
at least it would be when going above 60
FPS we're not even using the ultra
preset here as that hammered the frame
rate down into the 40s so with the RX
6600 I decided to drop the quality
preset to high and even then we're left
with totally useless data again oddly
AMD has claimed under these conditions
that the 5800 XT and I can't believe I'm
saying this is 12% faster than the 13600
K what the actual fbom AMD how could
that be even remotely true I'd love to
know what settings they're using and how
they're testing the game to make the
5800 XT 12% faster than a 13600 K that
is pretty wild stuff and making amd's
12% claim even more insane are the 7900
XT results here the 13600 K is 27%
faster than the 5800 X and 35% faster
we're looking at the 1% lows granted we
are testing the Intel CPUs with
high-speed ddr5 memory but even with the
slowest possible ddr4 memory you could
find the 13600 K should still be able to
beat the 5800 X in fact with a GPU such
as the 1700 XT memory speed really
shouldn't be that crucial and really
this shouldn't be shocking information
21 it would be crazy if zen3 was as fast
or faster than Intel's latest generation
architecture that competes very well
with Zen
4 now for testing f122 I dropped down to
the high preset which disables RAID
tracing and allows older gpus like the
rx600 to render pretty high frame rates
at 1080p we see that only the ryzen 5
2600 drops off here the rest of the pack
is heavily GPU limited so once again
we're not really learning anything here
in regards to CPU performance AMD
claimed to have a 1% Advantage for both
matchups but we're not really seeing
that here okay so retesting with the
17900 XT changed things quite a bit the
13700 K is now 28% faster than the 5950
X while the 13600 K is 177% faster than
the 5800 X so it's a bit odd that AMD
would claim to have a small performance
advantage in this title when that's not
at all the case finally we have shut off
the Tomb Raider and I'm going to presume
that AMD was using the built-in
Benchmark for this one which is a
terrible CPU test it's really just a GPU
Benchmark so we're testing ingame in the
village section which is substantially
more CPU demanding though you wouldn't
really know it with a radon RX 6600 as
all highend CPUs were limited to the
same 96 to 97
FPS again AMD claimed the upcoming 5900
XT which is really just a 5950 X is 1%
faster than the 13700 K in this title so
let's take a bit of a closer look at
that really the margin isn't that huge
here the 13700 K is 7% faster or 12%
faster if you compare the 1% lows the
5950 X actually does really well
relative to the 5800 X but yeah the
results are miles of what AMD claimed so
in conclusion you could say that the
5800 X and 13600 K are identical for
gaming if you wanted to grossly
misrepresent the gaming performance of
Intel's processor and if you go with a
radon RX 6600 using an odd batch of six
games this is what you get Intel wins by
a perc not AMD winning by 2% mind you
like they claimed but if you Benchmark
these CPUs using an odd batch of six
games but with a 7900 XT the Intel CPU
is 133% faster on average we've shown
using more demanding games that are
probably more suited to CPU Benchmark
and the average is more like 28% in
Intel's favor but even the 133% we're
seeing here is very different to what
AMD claimed now for the 595x versus
13700 K using the RX 6600 and again an
odd batch of six games they deliver the
same performance then with the 7900 XT
installed the 13700 K was on average 16%
faster not quite the 36% we see with the
RTX 490 in more demanding games but
again very different to what AMD showed
us so there you have it amd's bad
benchmarks are indeed bad and frankly
unnecessary AMD should have just
announced the 5900 XT and 5800 XT and
left it at that there's no need to show
gaming performance for zen3 processors
that we've had for like 3 years now
everyone knows what they are and without
a hefty price cut they're really not
worth buying for gaming the 5900 XT it
might make sense for a productivity CPU
assuming it is much cheaper than the
550x and you're already on the am4
platform but for gaming surely the 5700
x3d for $200 makes way more sense than
the 5800 XT as for benchmarking CPUs
with low-end gpus I hope we're starting
to make some Headway here with viewers
who believe testing with an RTX 490 at
1080p is misleading inaccurate or
whatever else they come up with the idea
is to see how many frames each processor
can throughput allowing you to compare
their performance and work out which one
of offers you the best value at a given
price point I get the idea of testing
with a more realistic GPU it makes sense
on the surface but it is a deeply flawed
approach that tells you nothing useful
and really if anything it only serves to
mislead pretending that a ryzen 75800 x
is just as fast as a core i733 700k for
gaming might make you feel good about
that ryzen processor but outside of GPU
limited gaming it's simply not true we
also found that the ryzen 7 7800x 3D was
no faster than the core I3 12100 when
using the RX
6600 but I'm sure you'll find the ryzen
7 processor is indeed much faster for
gaming and it won't take you too long to
discover this when you're actually
gaming anyway this is like my third
video on this subject so for those of
you who are yet to be convinced I doubt
I got you with this one as for AMD this
was an embarrassing and unnecessary
marketing blunder and I'm most annoyed
about the fact that I now have have to
Benchmark these CPUs when they're
released ideally I'd kind of just like
to ignore them call them what they are
the 5900 XT is a 5950 X and the 5800 XT
is a 5800 X but now I'll have to provide
you some benchmarks to prove the obvious
so thanks for that one AMD anyway I hope
you enjoyed these RX 6600 benchmarks I
know I did and don't forget to like
subscribe do all that stuff and if you'd
like to support the channel more
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we have float plane P
signing up to either one of those things
we'll give you access to our exclusive
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behind the scenes content and some Q&A
stuff so check that out if you're
interested but if not that is perfectly
fine and I would like to thank you for
watching this video I'm your host Steve
see you again next time
[Music]
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