Edward P. Jones talks about "The Known World" and his Washington, D.C., short stories
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful interview, Ethel Burk Miller engages with renowned author Edward P. Jones, discussing his literary journey and the profound influence of his mother on his work. Jones, known for his dedication to storytelling that reflects the African American experience, shares his creative process, the importance of character development, and the challenges of writing historical fiction without extensive research. The conversation delves into the nuances of his writing style, his approach to teaching, and his views on the role of literature in society.
Takeaways
- 📚 Edward P. Jones is a celebrated author known for his books 'Lost in the City' and 'The Known World', both dedicated to the memory of his mother, Jeanette M. Jones.
- 👩🏫 His mother's illiteracy and hard work as a dishwasher and hotel maid greatly influenced Jones, motivating him to excel in school and strive to be the best citizen and human being.
- 🏆 The character Marie Wilson in 'Lost in the City' is inspired by Jones' mother and represents older individuals standing up against societal changes.
- 🎨 Jones uses his writing to explore 'what if' scenarios, imagining how his characters might act differently in various situations, influenced by his college studies on 19th-century novels.
- 🦅 The story 'The Girl Who Raised Pigeons' was inspired by a childhood friend named Bessie Ann, showcasing a courageous version of what she could have been in a better world.
- 🗣️ Jones incorporates phrases and dialogues from his childhood and his mother's voice into his writing, giving his stories a distinct cadence and authenticity.
- 📚 He admits to making up the voices of younger characters in his stories, as he hasn't been around younger people enough to know their speech patterns.
- 🏙️ Jones has a strong connection to Washington D.C., especially the neighborhoods of the past, and feels disconnected from the new city that has emerged.
- 🤔 He reflects on the elements that make a good short story, acknowledging that his understanding of storytelling has evolved and become less certain over time.
- 🏆 Despite his success, including a McArthur Genius Grant, Jones does not rest on his laurels but views each new story as a fresh challenge.
- 🌐 The concept of maps is a recurring theme in Jones' work, symbolizing the need for direction and a plan in both writing and life's journey.
Q & A
Who is the guest of the 'Writing Life' program in this transcript?
-The guest is Edward P Jones, an author known for his books 'Lost in the City' and 'The Known World'.
What is the significance of Edward P Jones' mother in his life and work?
-Edward P Jones' mother, Jeanette M Jones, had a profound influence on his life. Despite her inability to read or write, she motivated him to be the best student and citizen he could be. Her memory is honored in the dedications of his books.
How did Edward P Jones' mother's occupation as a dishwasher and hotel maid influence him?
-Seeing his mother's hard work and fatigue from her daily job as a dishwasher and hotel maid inspired Edward P Jones to strive for excellence in his studies and later in life, aiming to make her life easier.
What is the connection between Edward P Jones' childhood friend Bessie Ann and the character in his story 'The Girl Who Raised Pigeons'?
-Bessie Ann, a childhood friend who was bullied for her stuttering and thinness, inspired the character in 'The Girl Who Raised Pigeons'. Edward P Jones wanted to create a character who could stand up for herself, as Bessie Ann could have in a better world.
How does Edward P Jones approach character development, especially for older characters in his stories?
-Edward P Jones often uses the voice and phrases he remembers from his mother, giving his older characters a certain cadence and portrait of speech. He also explores the idea of older characters physically confronting people, showing their anger at how the world has changed.
What does Edward P Jones think about the changes in Washington DC since his first book was published?
-Edward P Jones feels that the new city is not really his city. His stories often reflect the Washington DC of the 1950s to the 1980s, as that's the time he came of age and knows best.
How does Edward P Jones describe his process of writing a short story?
-Edward P Jones mentions that he used to have a vague idea of a beginning, middle, and end for a story, but as he continued writing, he became less certain about these elements. He now focuses on telling the character's story and hopes it turns out well.
What is Edward P Jones' view on the concept of freedom in the context of his novel 'The Known World'?
-In 'The Known World', Edward P Jones explores the idea that freedom is not just about being free but also about the law acknowledging one's freedom. He discusses the fragility of freedom papers and the potential for them to be taken away, leading to re-enslavement.
How does Edward P Jones feel about receiving the McArthur Genius Grant?
-Edward P Jones does not let the recognition affect his writing process. He continues to focus on doing the best he can and does not think about what people will say about his work.
What is Edward P Jones' approach to teaching writing?
-Edward P Jones prefers to dive right into the work. He asks students to have a story ready for the first day of class and everyone reads it. He believes in focusing on individual work rather than assigning exercises that may not appeal to every writer.
How does Edward P Jones feel about the popularity of certain genres over his own work?
-Edward P Jones does not express concern over his work being pushed aside by more popular genres. He believes that readers will find their way to his work and that it's important for them to explore different types of literature.
Outlines
📚 Dedication and Influence of a Mother
In this paragraph, author Edward P. Jones discusses the significant influence of his mother, Jeanette M. Jones, who despite being illiterate, motivated him to excel in school and strive to be the best version of himself. He shares how his mother's hard work as a dishwasher and hotel maid instilled in him a sense of determination and respect. Jones also touches on the theme of older characters standing up for themselves in his stories, inspired by his mother's memory and the idea of 'what if' scenarios that challenge the status quo.
🏙️ Reflections on Washington DC's Transformation
The speaker, presumably Edward P. Jones, contemplates the changes in Washington DC since his first book was published. He expresses a disconnect with the new city, feeling more attached to the DC of the past, particularly the 1950s to 1980s. Jones talks about the challenge of setting characters in a time when the physical landscape has drastically changed, and the emotional impact of this transformation on his storytelling.
🎨 The Art of Storytelling and Character Development
This paragraph delves into Jones's creative process, his views on the elements that make up a good short story, and his approach to character development. He admits to being less certain about the structure of a story as he gains more experience, moving away from traditional narrative arcs to a more organic, miniature-like storytelling approach. Jones also discusses the importance of dialogue and capturing the voice of his characters, including the younger generation, which he admits to having to 'make up' due to a lack of personal exposure.
🗺️ The Role of Maps and Metaphors in Literature
Jones explores the concept of maps as a metaphor for his writing process, discussing how they provide a sense of direction and help him avoid getting lost in the narrative. He also touches on the historical aspects of his work, emphasizing that while there might be some historical value, his stories are primarily a product of his imagination. The paragraph concludes with a discussion about the presence of animals in his work and their symbolic representation of the treatment of slaves.
👤 Personal Reflections on Writing and Identity
In this introspective paragraph, Jones discusses his writing process, his approach to creating diverse characters, and the personal elements that inevitably find their way into his work. He talks about the importance of having a plan for a story, the significance of the first line, and the organic unfolding of the narrative. Jones also addresses the influence of Alfred Hitchcock on his storytelling and the challenge of starting over with nothing, as depicted in one of his characters' journeys.
🏆 The Impact of Recognition and the Writing Journey
The final paragraph focuses on Jones's reflections on receiving the McArthur Genius Grant and how it has not affected his writing process. He emphasizes the importance of discipline and the individuality of each writer's journey. Jones also discusses his teaching approach, his thoughts on the commercialization of books, and the importance of privacy for a writer. The paragraph concludes with his views on what makes a good writer and the value of reading as a foundation for writing.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Influence
💡Dedication
💡Literary Influence
💡Character Development
💡Memory
💡Cadence
💡Historical Fiction
💡Metaphor
💡Imagination
💡Cultural Heritage
💡Storytelling
Highlights
Edward P Jones discusses the influence of his mother, who couldn't read or write, on his life and writing.
Jones' dedication to being the best student and citizen as a tribute to his mother's hard work.
The character Marie Wilson in 'Lost in the City' is inspired by Jones' mother and her resilience.
Jones uses the 'what if' approach to develop characters and plot, inspired by Henry James.
The story 'The Girl Who Raised Pigeons' is based on a childhood friend and explores courage and standing up against adversity.
Jones' use of phrases from his childhood to create authentic dialogue in his stories.
The challenge of capturing the voices of younger characters without direct exposure to their speech patterns.
Jones' return to Washington DC and the changes in the city influencing his perspective on writing about the past.
The difficulty of placing characters in a historical context when the physical environment has changed significantly.
Jones' evolving understanding of what makes a good short story and the unpredictability of the writing process.
The comparison of writing a story to a journey with a clear destination, even if the path takes unexpected turns.
Jones' approach to writing 'The Known World' without extensive research, relying on imagination and prior knowledge.
The misconception by some reviewers that 'The Known World' was heavily researched, which Jones clarifies was not the case.
The theme of maps and their inaccuracies as a metaphor for the writing process and life's journey in Jones' work.
The significance of animals in 'The Known World' and their symbolic representation of the treatment of slaves.
Jones' reflection on the concept of freedom and the fragility of one's status in society, as depicted in 'The Known World'.
The importance of privacy and personal discipline in maintaining a writing routine and producing quality work.
Jones' teaching approach in writing classes, focusing on immediate workshopping of student stories rather than prescribed exercises.
Concerns about the visibility of quality literature in bookstores and the impact on readers' choices.
Transcripts
this program is made possible in part by
the National Endowment for the Arts
welcome to the writing life my name is
Ethel Burk Miller and my guest is Edward
P Jones Edward P Jones is the author of
two books lost in the city and the known
world welcome thank you thank you you
know both of your books and are
dedicated to the memory of your mother
Jeanette M Jones let's talk about her
first what influence does she have on
your life and how did you try to keep
your memory her memory alive in your
pull in your books well the mother
couldn't read or write and I think that
had been as I say in the dedication in
the second book
had it been a better war I think she
would gone on and she far more than she
did and just produce three children when
I was in school I always endeavored to
be the best student that could because I
was aware that she went out every day
she was a dishwasher she was a hotel
maid and she never spoke about how hard
the work was but you could just see it
in how tired she wasn't she came home in
the evenings so I was endeavored to be
the best student I could possibly be
just to make her life easier and now
that I'm growing up I'm out there on my
own I try to be the best citizen and
human being that I can be my mother died
in 75 but it doesn't matter you know
when I see a character like Marie Wilson
you know who's in the last story of lost
in the city I sort of chuckle because I
I saw my mother and I guess your mother
too but one of the things in there is
that she actually physically confronts
people
and I want you to talk about that but to
see that here you have older people
really striking back being angry with
how the world has changed yeah this
destroys an ounce of the city there's
only one the one about the little girl
on the first day of school that it's
taken from my own life but I think that
I'm sort of influenced by something when
I was in college and there was a
nineteenth-century novel course the
introduction to Henry James novel where
the person who wrote the foreword I
think was talking about James's thing of
always asking what if and so rather than
having this old woman go into the Social
Security office and being abused every
time she goes in there you know I simply
asked myself what if of course you can't
have her you know do anything outrageous
like pulling out an ak-47 but she stands
up in a little small way and smacks this
woman the same thing happened with the
first story the girl raised pigeons when
I was a child one of one of my childhood
friends was a girl named Bessie Ann and
she was stuttering she was thin and
everyone in the neighborhood picked on
her when I got around to writing the
story the girl I raised pigeons um I had
a very courageous little girl nine ten
eleven years old and I decided to name
her Bessie n because I wanted to create
this character who would have been what
this Ian could have been if it had been
a better world someone who could have
stood up herself all along the way you
know what I find in there Marie
character Marie Wilson
she says you weren't ways that way after
she you know you know and that sound
like an expression that you hear old
people sing at a time it is yeah that's
what I when I certainly agree with that
you know whenever I sort of deviated a
bit from the way my mother was raising
me she would see you weren't raised that
way and I always find a certain comfort
in using phrases that I knew when I was
a child they're they're no longer used
apparently I guess how do you lead that
into your dialogue I think the voice
that always use
for the most part is the voice that I
heard of my mother when I was growing up
you know every goodbye and going
every shut-eye he'd sleep you know you
wasn't raised that way things like that
there's a certain cadence certain
portrait to the way she she spoke and
she got that the course of being having
been born and raised in the south and
you also have younger characters though
in some of your story how do you go
about and capture this be I think I just
make it up because I'm not always privy
to what they're saying I have a niece
and two nephews but I haven't been
around them enough to know the way they
speak so I think it's just a matter of
sort of making it up I'm winging it
along the way
now you've recently moved back into DC
and I was wondering a lot has happened
since your first book had come out
Washington DC has changed okay when you
walk around the city and you look at
neighborhoods that you've written about
do you feel now that maybe you should go
back and maybe write more about the
memories so that you could preserves a
certain city that's being lost or do you
embrace the new city do you see the
stories out there no the new city isn't
really my city and when I think of
stories and I'm working on another
collection of stories of Washington DC
and when so many of those stories came
to me in the last ten years it was the
1950s it was the 1960s and perhaps a bit
of the 1970s and the 80s and that's what
I know and I think it's probably because
I came of age you know in the 60s and
all of that my problem my concern always
has been in that trying to place a
character in 1955 in a certain building
on a certain Street that building is no
longer there and I may get the address
wrong and whenever I think of that
there's a line from the movie Avalon it
comes back to me and it says if I had
knew it was all going to be gone I would
have remembered better mm-hmm you know
when I look at your short stories I
wonder in terms of what elements you
know make up a good short story I know
you've made reference to your teachers
like James Allen McPherson and Taylor I
also saw you had a blur for Hank Lewis
who has a new book out yeah
what do you see when in short stories
you know in terms of the certain basic
elements that you feel makes a good
story you know the more I do them the
more the less confident I am about what
goes into them back when I was beginning
I had this vague idea it's beginning a
middle and an end and there's a sort of
climactic moment there towards the end
then I'm no longer certain I mean there
was a story that that I did all on take
his children and I tried to fit as much
into this short story as I could say
that when the reader was done he or she
would feel as if he had never read a
novel well in sort of composing that
story everything that I knew about what
goes into story had to go out because I
was doing something different I had this
thing about miniatures I know you
collect stamps and I collect American
stamps and I also collect these little
nice Japanese figures called nets keys
and in that story I knew I had a certain
a number of pages and I knew I couldn't
conform to the old idea what what goes
into a story I just had to tell this
person's story and hope that at the end
of it I had done the best job that I
could so I no longer know what goes into
a story I just hope it's okay let's
let's talk about this except when we
first sat down was 1992 the letters had
like I call you the tagging words of
American literature now as all of you
would but do you feel now that you're a
better writer or you still feel that
there's a lot of improvement at you yeah
I mean you know there must be you know a
million things I suppose you're supposed
to know about writing and you know
you've you written since you're 21 and
you live to be a hundred you still only
reach maybe a thousand but my sense is
always that whether it's a story or a
chapter in a novel once you finish the
story and it's successful the next day
you get up and you start the second
story you're at the bottom of the
mountain again you know no matter what
you think you knew with the first story
you know it's all something brand-new
again you're dealing with new people you
dealing with new situations a new plot
new dialogue and everything and you're
back at the bottom of the mountain again
I mean Department a lot of people of
course is that they sort of rest on
their laurels well I did that one
successfully you know just sort
shoot this one out there no I never feel
as if I can sort of rest on anything
since that guy recently interviews that
I conducted with you it seems like a lot
of things are in your mind if you're
thinking you really rested with the
imagination then it moves from your
imagination to storytelling yeah then I
feel it has to move for storytelling to
actually being on the paint is that a
difficult process yeah and again it's
because I mean I don't I don't like
taking anything for my own life and
certainly enough from the lives of
people that I know and so you're sort of
dealing with you know this block of clay
nothing and I like to think it all
through all the way from the beginning
Fitz story from the beginning to the
very end I don't like sitting down and
asking myself what should come next
there days when you're not inspired
enough even though you know what two
connects and you just can't work but you
always know what the destination is
going to be if take the known world
which is the book that's really opened a
lot of doors for you
how should a person teach - say for
example I was teaching a history class
okay would it be good for me to take the
known world and bring it in in place
alongside say scholarly texts and what
American slavery no because it's it's
all fiction and I started out as I've
said often you know thinking that I
would read all those books on slavery
and I I never got around to reading only
in the end I just relied on my
imagination and all that I'd learned
about that world before I had even
thought about writing the novel so there
might be something of historical value
in it but I don't know what it is there
are one or two facts that I that I glean
before before I started writing the book
but other than that everything is out of
my imagination so I'm not sure I really
prefer his professor whatever use it now
I want to make a connection here and if
I'm wrong I looked at the Molino lost in
the city and look at the known world and
one thing I see as a connection is this
whole concept of maps even for example
when you talk about how you work that
putting a story together you sometimes
I'll say outline but you're mapping out
and looking at that we know that maps
are not accurate you know I remember
those Mercator projection math it was
always small but you know when you look
at maps which seem to be keying in in
both your books do you feel that sort
like a metaphor for what you're doing I
said I've ever thought about math with
loss in the city but certainly it's sort
of central in the known world but yeah I
yeah it's again it's because I don't
want to get lost when I'm when I'm
working and when I teach and I often
tell people that my technique is you
starting out and I don't drive but this
is if I had a car and I'm starting out
from Washington and going to Baltimore
you know always always because you you'd
settle in your mind that your
destination is going to be Baltimore so
you get on the road with the
baltimore-washington Parkway and maybe
there's a sign of a town you've never
heard of before and you decide to take a
detour and it's 2:00 in the afternoon
and you are still have time to get to
Baltimore and so you take the detour
it's two hours three hours or whatever
it is I mean that's fine when you're
when you're writing the story because
that's that's happened to me a lot of
the times I knew what the destination
but sometimes little things happen that
I never anticipated but ultimately you
know you're gonna get back on the
baltimore-washington Parkway and by
evening your domain in Baltimore yeah
yeah I really I know you've been asked a
lot of questions about the known world
but I want to focus in and ask you you
know for things we perhaps people
haven't talked to you about which I
think jumped out and I discussed some of
this on NPR when we didn't discuss your
book with Roger Wilkins and Lisa page
with Diane Rehm it's about the gnome
world there are a number of references
to horses and mules could you elaborate
on there yeah I there are a lot of
things that just came out of my
subconscious I think I was aware that
these people in that time probably lived
in close proximity with animals and that
the people who were slave owners for the
most part thought of their slaves
there's no more than animals and we get
a lot of people in there
like where Marvin's who probably treats
his horse far better than it treats his
slaves I'm not really sure I think it
might take me five or ten more years and
think of the person I that I am to say
yes this is why I said that this is why
I said that because they keep real yeah
the dogs I know and there's several
times the horses are hidden a shot in
the head right I wasn't always aware
that when the first time that happens
with a horse it happened then and then
later on when it happens I wasn't really
aware that they didn't happen before and
then when it maybe happens a third time
I wasn't aware of that but twice before
that it was always at that particular
point that I needed to say that about a
horse a dog or mule I think I I was
there was a friend of mine once told me
about that in my stories that me was
sort of a majestic character and I
probably got that for my mother because
her thing was always talking about me
was when she was growing up you know the
character Alex knight in 1861 in your
book you have created a map the entire
manchester county leaving out the people
mm-hm
and she says in the book it's what God
sees when he looks down on Manchester
the letter writers and I said if the
people my question is if the people in
that President can win conclude that God
might be missing from their lives - I
think so I tend not to put mice insert
myself in into into what I write but of
course it's inevitable that's something
that you are seeps in and I always say
that while I'm not a religious person
I'm doomed to write about people or raw
in my sense throughout the novel was
that there were a lot of people who
believed passionately in God but God was
always absent in the first map the map
of the entire county of course there are
no people because that's the way I sort
of see things in the in the second map
which is a smaller one of this
particular plantation or Dallas and I
came from there are people and their
eyes are raised up to the heavens and
supposedly God that's what God sees when
he looks down upon him now you said you
know put yourself into these characters
but if I had to select the care that I
think that I detect you here
Elias and I think that the cool would be
that he's whittling that you talked
about carving across that so I looked at
that character look close I said well
maybe this is where every junk shows up
and then that character says Stephane
says do you write about him
they'll I said never believed in the
same God and so he had never questioned
the world what color people could be the
owners of slaves and if at that moment
in the dark he had sprouted wings you
would not have questioned that either
yeah I think that's probably a little
bit me he's putting it yeah yeah the
Carboni I think it's because in writing
you have these pages and pages and pages
you know in stories and in a novel and
you know you really if you have
something on page seven and you want to
consult page 207 it's a long trick but
if you have a carving you know a piece
of wood and you're doing a horse you can
see almost immediately whether one leg
is a little shorter than it should be or
if the neck is a little longer than it
should be you know if the body really
doesn't correspond to the horse's bodies
that you've known who does that and some
of his work it's a science fiction
writer Samuel Delaney hmm Orton has a
character that might have some sort of
you know problem physically you know you
know and that's what like a metaphor for
how you moved around the world yeah I
mean there's a character in here tonight
I figured my friend Lisa page when we
discussed this character I said aloud I
said this is good humoured the character
Stanford I'm just looking for young
stuff the only way he could survive
slavery listen to me when I when I see
Stanley this looking out for the young
thing you know that seemed to be the
everyday guy I know I can do with
slavery as long as I got a warm body to
me is that was that deliberately placed
in the hood yeah it was and and I and I
and originally
the Stanford is like he comes to what he
thinks is the end of his life you know
because the young women are no longer
attracted to him and he decides that
he's going to commit suicide and the all
the parts in there about the thunder and
lightning and his redemption was not
originally in there until after my
editor credit but yeah I wanted a
Stanford Canada when I put all this
stuff about the thunder and lightning in
his Redemption I realized after my the
woman who became my editor
read the book that I was interested in
how black people managed to get to the
other side get to freedom and I already
had lies and his wife Celeste was
crippled and their family they have each
other
and that I felt was probably how they
managed to survive well of course there
were people like Stanford didn't have a
family and so I went back over and tried
to find a way of discovering how people
like that would get to the other side
and the thought came to me that they
would get to the other side by
concerning themselves with the lives of
other people other than themselves which
is Stanford's problem up to that day
another thing that one would look at in
terms of the known world is the whole
approach that you take to the whole
concept of law to to law and you have
for example Travis talks with us as he
says you ain't free less mean the law
say you free us yes you ain't got
nothing to do with it yeah you know and
then also you have like universal
freedom papers just being sued yeah and
I think it's it's it was that thought
came to me maybe two or three years
after the novel was there and I said it
just occurred to me I mean what if
you're a free man and you are the papers
that say you're a free man you know the
only thing that's standing between you
and slavery is people's it piece of
paper you know and if someone takes that
piece of paper and takes you to another
County another state where no one knows
you and his white man that does that his
word is law but I think that someone
could take your papers from you and
we've seen that depict in movies and
then I think the chewing of the paper
gives it to another level yeah because
you know your story told you always
wanted to tell something a little
different than everyone else has ever
done it and I just came to me well this
man should do this he should chew it up
and eat it
let's go back to some of your first
reviews when a known world comes out you
know my take on on some of the first
ones was that people became fascinated
with just the theme and the idea behind
your book blacks only only other black
people did you feel that you know you
strawberry some reviews we're just
dealing with
the topic and that deal with the
structure of the play no because I I
think a lot of them came later on so
they weren't lot that New York afforded
to me that weren't based in Washington
area so no I didn't I suppose I didn't
get that you know maybe there a lot that
I haven't read is there you know the
party every single day someone mention
something that I'm not I'm not read so
there was the one that haven't got to me
was the sky alland shoes at George Mason
he wrote in the San Francisco paper that
I had done tons of research and had
plowed it all into the book well they've
had he read the you know the press
release or whatever it was he would have
known that I did know research and I
think that was what got to me and that
happened very early on and I think it
was another one of the trade magazines
that guys had said every research he was
very positive but he had mentioned
research and I think that got to be more
than anything else because when the
reviews that I did read read and they
mentioned what it's about black slave
owners I did see that they took note of
that but the book is far more than that
now I took what I had a problem I said
this on radio I loved your work so much
right she wasn't sitting which i think
is a classic that when I got to the
known world I couldn't get past the
first couple of pages and I felt I felt
I felt that okay the MOOC was moving
stuff but then when I had to read his
for like a program I realize I said wow
this is phenomenal because what happens
is it off to a while you just emerged in
a wall okay and and I found that I
ignore whether there was going to be a
plot or where things were going but I
felt that what happened I just got
pulled in further and further and I was
wondering whether when you were writing
did you outline this oh you're just like
weaving this and keeps unfolding no it
was I had a plan you know it was from
the beginning to the end I knew what the
first line was going to be and I knew
everything in between a lot of it was in
a very general way I mean when it lies
you know goes to Celeste and tells her
he likes her then you know I had a
general idea of what that scene would be
it was only one line
that I knew that I written out in my
head exactly and over the years because
I didn't write anything now and I would
keep repeating that line but yeah
everything was it was there from the
very beginning and I think now if if I
had if I if I'd heard the things of the
people are saying now if I when I was
composing the book of my head you know
that well they're a lot of characters
and it's a little difficult here and
there maybe I would have taken a
different path so I'm very glad now that
I didn't you know that I have a sort of
a lone loner and I just went on my own
way listen to you critics you do you do
you read like some of the reviews I know
for example some writers just totally
ignore the reviews no I read the reviews
I don't read the articles about myself
yeah and it's but I don't you know again
it goes and I read the reviews and
everything but you know when it comes
around to writing the stories that I'm
working on now I don't recall it any
what they will say because again I'm
down at the bottom of the mountain you
know I know you have a new collection of
stories coming out and I know some of
them have appeared in The New Yorker and
I will assume that a rich man will five
being a new pole yes that book is that
that that starts interesting in terms of
Horace is a young man who all the man
who life is totally destroyed by by
young people all it seems that when I
read that story I felt here's the Alfred
Hitchcock influence and every feature is
that I know you know Hitchcock I mean
you know this whole life just up to
scare the heart is just totally
destroyed he winds up in jail you know
it seems that more than anything else
yeah and I like a child but I never once
I don't think thought about him the
stories came up when I finished lost in
the city here might my thinking was that
well you know I'll never be is that any
of those people again and then in 95-96
one character from the title story loss
of the city came to me and I began
building a story around her and then
over the next months other characters
from that collection came to me and I
began building around stories around
them as well let me ask you this
question which one of your characters
are actually higher says
and it's near the end of the of the
story of the rich man how does a man
start over with nothing and how does a
man start from scratch well I think he
had there had some supposed to be a with
the problem of horse is that the one
substance of the thing in his life he is
rather discarded his wife and she
disappears in the middle of the story
but I think there is some hope for him
at the end with this young woman Elaine
who was a minor character from the
previous story in loss of the city you
you you received the McArthur so your
genius I knew you were genes before he
never wants me to do what happens now
here you are in the middle of finishing
a book do you find that pressure in
terms of how it might be Percy what you
just totally wipe that out no you know I
can't think about what people will say
you know I just do the best that I can
I'm glad that the New Yorkers you know
published before the stories already and
that that tells me that maybe I'm on the
right path and I have about two or three
more to finish and then that'll be it
but I and then I can't and I think given
all that they said about the known world
I think it will probably be months and
months before I read interviews about
the new collection of stories you talk
about this path if other right is one of
the file sort of a path that ever Pete
John says has taken what books do you
feel they they should read I know you
have your favorite writers but are there
any book that might deal with the
teaching of right and you would suggest
a young person you know pick up no I
guess I you know it's I mean how many
how many books on writing the Ralph
Ellison read how many did you yeah you
know and then that was that was summer a
few weeks ago and someone said mentioned
Saul Bellow the Cody had is that a
writer is a reader move to emulation and
I think that's that's subtle it's you
know you're just reading is a foundation
of it all sure but let me put you in a
spy you have taught at a number of
institutions I never use the text what
how do you instruct a class of people
are the exercises that you had Joseph to
have developed that you feel will be
helpful I did in the very beginning when
I was in graduate school knows because I
didn't know what I was doing now I just
we just dive right into the work before
the class even starts
I tell you know whomever in contact all
the students that I want to have a story
on the very first day and that I want
everyone to read the story and we just
sit right into the work you know there'd
cuz everyone sort of you know is a
different sort of writer you know and I
can't really assign anything I feel that
will appeal to this writer not equal to
the other so we just dive right into the
work right away you know we look at so
many people want to be right I look at
you I look at Hank Lewis I look
oppressed whatever I see individuals
were producing you know really wonderful
work but then when I go into the
bookstores
I see the books pushed aside by the more
popular you know black romance book you
know how do you feel about that interns
at this particular time do you feel your
books are reaching the people that you
would like to to read well I don't have
a sense of who you know the readers are
really a great sense of it but I mean in
and sad for me because I know when I
started out reading I was reading just
about everything and it's over a course
of years as you become more educated and
what is good what is bad but my sense
now is that maybe people will stick with
this romance crap and stay with that
forever and that branch out so it is sat
in a certain way yes do you feel that
there are things that writers should
have that
that you feel it is very important one
thing I would wonder about privacy your
very private person do you feel that's
very important so that you just maintain
a discipline of being a good writer
no is again you know you you know you
I'm not a Starbucks person but you know
you can walk by there and see some guy
on this
you know laptop in Starbucks and there's
all this clutter around the writer and
so we're all different and whatever
whatever allows you at the end of the
day to say yes I have a page two pages
that I'm comfortable with that I'm happy
with and you get up the next day and you
read over those previous pages and say
yes this is okay and that's that's the
way to go
this isn't star book but this is the
writing life and I'm happy that you've
been I guess thanks for inviting me
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