How BEING HUNGRY Helps You Prevent Disease, LOSE WEIGHT & End Inflammation! | Mike Mutzel

Summary

In this health-focused conversation, Mike, a clinical nutrition expert, shares insights on the potential benefits of fasting for mental clarity and cancer prevention. He discusses the impact of fasting on glucose and insulin levels, mTOR pathway regulation, and mitochondrial function. Mike also emphasizes the importance of a positive mindset and the adaptability of the body and mind. The discussion explores the role of diet, exercise, and sleep in overall health and longevity, highlighting the significance of personalized dietary approaches and the influence of circadian rhythms on health.

Takeaways

• 🧠 Mindset Shift: A subtle change in mindset can have a profound impact on health and well-being, regardless of specific health issues.
• 🎓 Expertise in Nutrition: Mike Mutzel, the guest, holds a master's degree in clinical nutrition and specializes in preventing chronic diseases through diet and lifestyle.
• 📚 Education and Resources: Mike has created numerous courses and hosts a respected podcast, 'High Intensity Health', focusing on health-related topics.
• 🔍 Personal Health Journey: Mike's personal health journey includes an elevated tumor biomarker, alpha-fetoprotein, which led him to explore fasting and its potential anti-cancer properties.
• ⏱️ Fasting for Health: Fasting can lower glucose and insulin levels, which may inhibit cancer cell growth, and it also enhances mitochondrial function and autophagy.
• 🧬 Biomarker Monitoring: Regular lab work and monitoring of biomarkers like alpha-fetoprotein can be crucial for early detection and management of health issues.
• 💪 The Power of Exercise: Resistance training and quantifiable exercises can improve mental health by boosting self-confidence and discipline.
• 🌱 Seasonal and Ancestral Eating: Consuming food that is in season and native to one's local or ancestral environment can support a diverse and healthy microbiome.
• 🚫 Avoid Processed Foods: A key recommendation for better health is to eliminate processed foods and focus on whole, natural foods.
• ⏲️ Consistent Eating Schedule: Establishing a regular eating schedule that aligns with circadian rhythms can have positive effects on metabolism and health.
• 💤 Prioritize Sleep: Ensuring adequate sleep is essential for recovery, stress reduction, and overall health, particularly for children who are more susceptible to sleep imbalances.

Q & A

What is the main focus of Mike's work in the field of nutrition?

Mike focuses on the prevention of chronic diseases through leading-edge science in clinical nutrition. He has created numerous courses and hosts a podcast called 'High Intensity Health'.

What is the significance of the book 'Belly Fat Effect' by Mike?

The 'Belly Fat Effect' reveals the real secret about how diet, intestinal health, and gut bacteria help in burning fat, which is a crucial aspect of managing weight and overall health.

Why does Mike practice fasting?

Mike practices fasting not only for its potential health benefits such as mental clarity and enhanced mitochondrial function but also because he has an elevated tumor biomarker called alpha-fetoprotein, which he believes fasting may help manage.

What is the connection between insulin and cancer growth as discussed by Mike?

Insulin can act as a growth factor for cancer cells, promoting a glycolytic metabolism that allows these cells to thrive on glucose. Additionally, insulin is involved in the activation of mTOR, which fuels pro-growth pathways and could potentially contribute to cancer growth.

How does Mike's personal health journey relate to his professional focus?

Mike's personal experiences with health issues, including an elevated alpha-fetoprotein level, have led him to deeply understand the importance of a positive mindset, diet, and lifestyle changes in managing health.

What role did fitness play in Mike's life transformation?

Fitness played a pivotal role in Mike's life by boosting his self-confidence, which in turn helped him excel academically and pursue a career in clinical nutrition.

What are the potential benefits of ketones mentioned by Mike?

Ketones may offer mental clarity, enhance gene signaling, protect DNA, and affect stress response pathways, which could be beneficial in various health contexts including fasting and travel.

How does Mike view the concept of calorie counting in relation to health?

Mike is not a fan of calorie counting, as he believes that the quality of calories and their impact on cellular processes, gene expression, and microbiome composition are more important than just the quantity of calories.

What is Mike's perspective on the carnivore diet?

While initially skeptical, Mike has observed that some people report improvements in their health with a carnivore diet. He suggests that it might be worth trying for those with digestive issues but emphasizes the importance of listening to one's body.

What advice does Mike give for someone looking to improve their health?

Mike advises prioritizing sleep, eliminating processed foods, eating seasonally and locally sourced foods, and maintaining a consistent eating schedule to support circadian rhythms.

What is Mike's approach to dietary recommendations for longevity?

Mike suggests avoiding processed foods, consuming locally sourced and seasonal foods, and being consistent with meal timing for better health and longevity.

How does Mike incorporate exercise into his health philosophy?

Mike believes that exercise is crucial for health as it enhances autophagy, a process that helps break down and rebuild damaged proteins in the body, contributing to recovery and improved physical performance.

What are Mike's thoughts on the role of the microbiome in health?

Mike considers the microbiome to be a critical factor in health. He suggests that the food we eat not only nourishes us but also our gut bacteria, which in turn affects our overall health and well-being.

What is the significance of mTOR in health and longevity according to Mike?

mTOR is a critical energy sensor that, when chronically overexpressed, can be linked to premature aging and diseases. Mike is excited about the potential to manipulate mTOR through drugs, exercise, and fasting for health benefits.

How does Mike approach the topic of dietary fiber and the microbiome?

Mike acknowledges the importance of dietary fiber for the microbiome but also points out that people on meat-only diets are thriving, suggesting that there may be more to learn about the role of fiber and the complexity of the microbiome.

What does Mike suggest as a practical approach to fasting?

Mike suggests a practical approach to fasting that includes regular short-term fasts, such as a weekly 24-hour fast, and longer fasts a few times a year to potentially enhance longevity.

What is Mike's opinion on the use of pharmaceuticals for health optimization?

Mike is open to the use of pharmaceuticals like metformin and berberine for health optimization, particularly for their effects on metabolic pathways like mTOR. However, he emphasizes the importance of understanding and managing potential side effects.

Outlines

00:00

🧘 Positive Mindset and Health Transformation

The speaker discusses the importance of adopting a positive mindset towards health, emphasizing that the body and mind are malleable. The conversation begins with the guest, Mike, who holds a master's degree in clinical nutrition and shares his expertise in chronic disease prevention. Mike's work in creating health-related courses and hosting a respected podcast called 'High Intensity Health' is highlighted. The discussion shifts to fasting, a topic Mike is passionate about, and its potential anti-cancer properties. The conversation delves into how fasting can lower glucose and insulin levels, which may inhibit cancer cell growth, and the role of insulin in cellular growth through the mTOR pathway. Mike also shares his personal experience with fasting, which he undertakes for reasons beyond weight loss, such as managing a tumor biomarker called alpha-fetoprotein.

05:00

🔍 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Health

The speaker recounts a personal health journey that began with an elevated alpha-fetoprotein biomarker, leading to concerns about liver cancer. This health scare prompted a lifestyle change, including a focus on circadian rhythms and a deeper appreciation for life's moments. The narrative explores the concept of functional medicine, which addresses underlying causes of symptoms rather than just treating the symptoms themselves. The speaker also discusses the impact of a disrupted circadian rhythm due to extensive travel and sales work, and how it led to a reevaluation of lifestyle choices. The importance of mindset and self-talk is highlighted, with the speaker sharing a history of negative self-perception and substance use that influenced their journey towards health and fitness.

10:02

💪 The Power of Exercise and Mindset Shift

The conversation centers on the transformative power of exercise, not just for physical change but also for boosting self-confidence and mental health. The speaker shares how weightlifting helped overcome insecurities and led to academic success, challenging the stereotype of bodybuilders being 'meatheads.' The discussion emphasizes the importance of resistance training and quantifiable exercise to track improvement and build self-respect. The speaker also touches on the broader application of discipline and effort from the gym to other areas of life, and the benefits of starting the day with a 'small win' to improve overall mindset and productivity.

15:03

🧠 Mental Clarity and Fasting: A Personal Experience

The speaker discusses the concept of mental clarity and its association with fasting. They share personal experiences of conducting interviews in a fasted state, attributing enhanced focus and mental sharpness to their fasting regimen. The dialogue explores the biochemical individuality of how people respond to fasting, with the speaker expressing a preference for ketosis due to its potential benefits on gene signaling and DNA protection. The conversation also delves into the idea of ketones as a source of mental clarity, with the speaker hypothesizing that the presence of ketones, rather than the absence of food, contributes to this mental state.

20:05

🍽 The Debate Over Ketosis and Caloric Intake

The conversation takes a critical look at the ketogenic diet and the broader debate surrounding caloric intake and health. The speaker challenges the notion that ketosis is 'stupid' and highlights the importance of considering the quality of calories consumed, not just the quantity. They discuss the impact of different macronutrients on cellular health and the potential long-term effects of diets high in trans fats. The dialogue also touches on the importance of considering individual goals and the role of macromolecules and micronutrients in gene expression and microbiome composition.

25:06

🌱 The Role of Diet in Microbiome Diversity

The speaker discusses the impact of diet on gut microbiome diversity and overall health. They share insights on how different foods can influence the composition of the microbiome and the potential health implications of these changes. The conversation explores the idea of seasonal eating and the benefits of consuming locally available foods, as well as the potential drawbacks of consuming foods out of season. The speaker also discusses their personal dietary changes and how they have experimented with a carnivore diet, highlighting the need for an open-minded approach to understanding the complex relationship between diet and health.

30:08

🥩 The Carnivore Diet and Its Implications

The speaker delves into the carnivore diet, discussing its potential benefits and the scientific community's mixed reactions. They share personal experiences with the diet and its effects on various health markers, such as hemoglobin A1c, iron, ferritin, and cholesterol levels. The conversation explores the idea that the carnivore diet may have a place for individuals with digestive issues or those seeking to experiment with dietary changes. The speaker emphasizes the importance of listening to one's body and considering the impact of diet on sleep, heart rate variability, and overall well-being.

35:09

🌙 The Impact of Circadian Rhythms on Health

The conversation focuses on the importance of circadian rhythms and their influence on health, particularly in relation to diet and fasting. The speaker discusses the impact of meal timing on the expression of mTOR, a key energy sensor in the body, and how consistency in eating windows can positively affect health. They also touch on the role of sleep in metabolic repair and the importance of creating a sleep-friendly environment. The speaker encourages listeners to prioritize sleep and maintain a consistent eating schedule for optimal health.

40:10

🛌 Prioritizing Sleep for Longevity and Health

In the final paragraph, the speaker underscores the critical role of sleep in maintaining health and promoting longevity. They discuss the detrimental effects of sleep deprivation and the importance of establishing a sleep routine that supports the body's natural repair processes. The speaker also highlights the impact of screen time and social media on sleep quality and encourages creating a sleep environment that is conducive to restorative rest. The conversation concludes with a reminder to prioritize sleep as a key component of a healthy lifestyle.

Keywords

💡mindset shift

A mindset shift refers to a change in one's perspective or attitude. In the video, it is mentioned as a subtle yet important aspect for individuals dealing with health issues. The guest, Mike, discusses how adopting a positive mindset can influence the malleability of one's body and mind, which is crucial for health improvement and disease prevention.

💡fasting

Fasting is the abstention from food and drink for a specific period. The video discusses fasting in relation to health benefits, such as lowering glucose and insulin levels, which can potentially starve cancer cells of their energy source. Mike also shares his personal experience with fasting, mentioning that he fasts for health reasons, including managing an elevated tumor biomarker.

💡ketosis

Ketosis is a metabolic state in which the body burns fat for fuel instead of glucose. The video mentions ketosis as a state that can provide mental clarity and energy. Mike explains that being in a fasted state can lead to ketosis, which he finds beneficial for his cognitive function and overall health.

💡mTOR

mTOR, or mechanistic target of rapamycin, is a protein that acts as a cellular energy sensor. It is discussed in the video as a critical factor in cell growth and metabolism. Mike talks about how fasting and certain substances can influence mTOR activity, which can have implications for health and longevity.

💡autophagy

Autophagy is a cellular process where the body breaks down and recycles its own waste products and damaged cells. The video mentions autophagy as a process that can be stimulated by fasting and exercise, which helps in cellular renewal and potentially contributes to longevity.

💡circadian rhythm

Circadian rhythm refers to the body's internal clock that regulates sleep-wake cycles and other physiological processes. In the video, Mike discusses the importance of aligning one's lifestyle with natural circadian rhythms for overall health and well-being.

💡microbiome

The microbiome is the collection of microorganisms living in and on the human body, playing a role in health and disease. The video touches on the importance of a diverse gut microbiome for health and how different diets, such as a carnivore diet, can influence it.

💡inflammation

Inflammation is the body's response to harmful stimuli and can lead to disease when chronic. The video implies that certain dietary practices and lifestyle factors discussed, such as fasting and managing mTOR, can help in reducing inflammation.

💡metformin

Metformin is a medication used to treat high blood sugar in type 2 diabetes. In the video, Mike mentions metformin as a potential mTOR inhibitor that could be used in microdosing to promote health benefits, although he personally uses berberine for this purpose.

💡berberine

Berberine is a natural plant alkaloid with potential health benefits, including its effect on blood sugar regulation. Mike discusses using berberine as an alternative to metformin to influence mTOR pathways and support his health.

💡longevity

Longevity refers to the state of living a long, healthy life. The video's theme revolves around strategies for promoting longevity, such as diet, fasting, and managing cellular processes like autophagy and mTOR activity.

Highlights

The importance of mindset shift for health, especially when dealing with non-weight or blood sugar issues.

Mike Mutzel's background with a master's degree in clinical nutrition and his work in preventing chronic diseases.

Discussion on the benefits of fasting for mental clarity and its potential anti-cancer properties.

The role of glucose and insulin in cancer cell growth and how fasting can affect these levels.

Mechanistic target of rapamycin (mTOR) and its influence on cellular growth in relation to cancer.

Mike's personal experience with an elevated tumor biomarker, alpha-fetoprotein, and his decision to fast.

The impact of circadian rhythm disruption on health and the importance of honoring sleep-wake cycles.

How a mindset shift can lead to positive changes in lifestyle and health.

The connection between physical exercise, self-confidence, and mental health.

The role of diet and lifestyle in managing and improving health conditions.

Insights on the biochemical individuality and how different people respond to fasting differently.

Discussion on the ketogenic diet, its benefits, and the controversy around it.

The potential of ketones to protect DNA and stress response pathways.

The significance of heart rate variability (HRV) as a biomarker for resilience and health.

The role of the microbiome in health and how different diets can affect it.

Thoughts on the carnivore diet and its potential effects on the microbiome and health.

The importance of understanding the impact of food on both our bodies and our gut bacteria.

Mike's final recommendation for the one change people should make for better health: prioritizing sleep.

Transcripts

so it was just a mindset shift and was

really subtle and I think it's important

for people to hear that because you know

I don't have necessarily weight issues I

don't have blood sugar issues most

people you know searching for

health-related topics are trying to lose

body fat trying to balance her blood

sugar but I have other issues that I'm

dealing with and I we need to have a

positive mindset that her body and her

mind are malleable everyone welcome to

health theory

today's guest is Mike muscle he holds a

master's degree in clinical nutrition

and teaches leading-edge science to

healthcare professionals for the

Prevention of chronic disease he's

created roughly twenty courses on

health-related topics as well as hosting

an awesome and widely respected podcast

called high intensity health he's also

the author of belly fat effect the real

secret about how your diet intestinal

health and gut bacteria help you burn

fat and speaking of burning fat we were

just talking before we started rolling

and I wanted to get back to it let's do

it which is your fasting you said that

you don't you you're fasting right now

you've about 24 hours in yeah you said

that if you have time you're gonna go

grab something to eat but ah maybe

you'll just go straight right at home I

find it really hard not knowing where my

fast ends do you is there any sort of

mental component to fasting for you you

know a lot of us have this ball and

chain when it comes to food right we're

just you know we eat at breakfast wheat

lunch and we worry we take up so much of

our mental bandwidth that can be used

for productivity for relationships for

self development but when I do

interviews when I interview other people

or when I'm being interviewed I like to

do it in a fasted state now it I didn't

start doing that it took me a while to

get to the point where my ketone levels

get to a point where I'm not feeling

hypoglycemic and the symptoms of like

low blood sugar affect me but I don't

really worry about is because once your

fasted for me personally I don't start

to get negative symptoms in terms of

sleep issues and maybe constipation or

whatever until day three so I'm cool

going to 36 hours and not knowing am I

going to have food or not so it's just a

way to clear the cobwebs not have to

worry about meal prep one's sundae but

the reason why I do

is actually have a tumor biomarker

that's elevated called alpha-fetoprotein

interesting that's why you started doing

it well that's why I'm fasting probe

more on a more prolonged basis every to

tell you why why do you think that it

and then tell us the exact protocol yeah

give people a little bit of the

background on the potential anti-cancer

properties what you've read I'm super

interested in this Seaton goes crazy as

you want well you know there's a lot of

research people talk about fasting first

of all lowering glucose and insulin and

so obviously there's many different

cancer subtypes and cancer cells

metastasized and they they mutate and

and so forth but a lot of research shows

that cancer cells can utilize glucose

and insulin to thrive so getting rid of

those groves not insulin I've not heard

that so the cancers though can actually

use insulin as what a growth factor is a

growth factor to kind of pivot their

metabolism to a more glycolytic so

they're burning sugar instead of fats

and then we'll get into a toffee in a

minute but insulin is involved in kind

of amplifying mTOR mechanistic target of

rapamycin I know you had Peter or TIA on

a talked at length about this but this

is really the gas pedal for cellular

growth and so it's and I like to just

pause right here and let people know

it's it I described mTOR like a light

switch in your home right it's not good

or bad it's the context that matters

your light switch is great when you want

to find something in the dark but it can

be bad if you're sleeping and someone

turns it on so that's where you know

every time we eats even if it's a vegan

meal or a animal-based meal we're going

to stimulate mTOR so just wanted to

throw that out there it's not good or

bad it just is and it's context but

getting back to your question about

insulin that could be the purported

mechanism through which insulin may

affect cancer growth is through mTOR

activation which just kind of fuels

pro-growth pathways yeah so getting back

to it glucose inhibition or lowering

glucose down and lowering insulin

enhancing mitochondrial function so a

lot of people I'm sure you've talked

about this you know if we envision our

home being a cell our home has different

appliances right we have the

refrigerator the the stovetop the

furnace inside each one of our cells we

have different appliances they're called

organelles so they're little cells

within cells really and our mitochondria

play a key role in helping us burn fat

for fuel helping us

think clearly helping us move our

muscles and it seems that mitochondrial

dysfunction is you know an upstream

event leading to various diseases from

mild cognitive impairment blood sugar

issues and low energy fatigue things

like that but certainly cancer as well

so we got the mitochondrial function and

then for me enhancing esophageal so as I

said I do lab work I've been doing lab

work like you know comprehensive

metabolic panel is twice a year and I

started to have this GI pain and I could

not figure out where it was coming from

and it was just like persistent so after

three months this was back in 2015 I

started to do some research on the

Internet and I'm like you know maybe I

could have cancer maybe I could have

something and I started to look and

since it was in this region I was

looking for gastrointestinal biomarkers

so I measured those and there was this

one test called alpha-fetoprotein which

is high in people to have hepatitis or

hepatocellular carcinoma which is a

metastasis of deliver so I ran it and

the normal range is 0 to 8 and mine was

80 whoa so anytime you have a weird

biomarker just retest because it could

just be part of the lab that's why I

retested it it was 79 and then I was

freaking out like a little girl home so

I'm nervous right you're nervous because

that's indicative of having this liver

cancer exactly okay so because I had

this biomarker I started to kind of

believe that I might have cancer and

then I started like on one hand it was

great because I was more present with my

daughter enjoying the moment putting

down the phone at night things like that

but on the other side I was like I can't

have this mindset that I have something

I and this is common in Western medicine

you have autoimmune disease you have

Hashimoto's so people start saying I

have MS I have this and I think we need

to realize that certainly our body can

have perturbations but it doesn't mean

you're always going to manifest symptoms

of that if you you can the body in the

mind and the diet and lifestyle are so

powerful so well let me ask you an

interesting question so I know you play

in functional medicine a lot one of the

things that I love about functional

medicine is it stopped worrying about

the symptom and get to the underlying

cause do you think your elevation in

protein is AFP yeah okay I keep

forgetting the computer protein AFP is

that is that a symptom of something else

you don't think so but I was living a

lifestyle where I was commuting I was

traveling a lot I was a sales rep and I

was going to Chicago going to managing

territories in Canada so my circadian

rhythm was totally jacked and so it was

a if anything it was an eye-opener that

I mean I've been eating healthy for a

while I mean I got into bodybuilding and

fitness stuff when I was 14 not for good

reasons for insecurities like many of

your guests has talked about you know

but um I was doing a lot of things right

but that's one of the things that I was

not doing my circadian rhythm was all

over the place it was you know always on

Eastern Standard time zone and flying

back and living in airplanes so it was

an aha moment that I mean maybe the

universe God was telling me you need to

change how you live your life and be

present more move more and really honor

your sleep-wake cycles because that

influences our hormones our biology I

mean everything that's interesting so

walk us through how do you then use that

eye opening moment you're taking it at a

much deeper level you're seeing it as an

opportunity you take it obviously very

seriously from a dietary protocol you

now kicking in the fasting what are some

other things you've done too and I like

the way you say honor your sleep-wake

cycles I'm taking this like spirituality

kind of vibe there's a lot of this stuff

so how do you think about that like how

are you honoring other elements of your

life like maybe the easiest way to ask

it is what other changes have you made

it's a beautiful question myself talk

yeah I used to have a lot of negative

self-talk about you know insecurities

I'm not good at this I suck I mean if we

really want to go down the rabbit hole

you know older sibling exposed me to

drugs and alcohol when I was nine well

yeah so that really and you liked it

or well I took to it yeah so I mean it's

crazy for people listening you know I

got arrested twice before at the age of

15 arrested at 12 and 15 shoplifting and

then for drugs at 15 so the reason why I

bring that up is I felt really dumb

right because you know remember dare

don't do drugs all the stuff in the 80s

you know if you do alcohol before this

or if you

drink we're smoke your brains gonna be

stunted you're gonna have learning

disabilities and so I started to like

believe that stuff and I literally I

remember my freshman year of high school

after I got arrested clean my life up my

dad kicked me out

you're not kick me out back you had me

go to rehab outpatient rehab the best

decision ever changed my life got into

fitness and all that but I really

struggle in school and I really believed

that I was done I was like I'm just not

like these other kids and back then my

brain wasn't because of my prior five

six years it so I had a lot of catching

up to do but that mindset that I'm dumb

and I'm not able to learn I'm not able

to talk with people still lingered with

me and it wasn't until college that I

started to like kind of slowly change it

but this aha moment that what if I do

have cancer made me realize that I can't

hang on to that crap because my time

like we always think we're gonna have

time I may not have the time that I

think I do to impact the world that I

want to and leave a legacy and I was

like dude I can't be nervous for

interviews it gave me nervous for video

I got a create content I got a right I

got a research because I realized it

like if I have 10 years 5 years 3 years

whatever

yeah it's finite like and we get wrapped

up in our insecurities and making money

or doing this but I think you know if we

can find our the best expression of

serving other people that can be an

associate that negative me whatever

everyone has different gifts and I think

that's what's so beautiful about the

earth so it was just a mindset shift and

was really subtle and I think it's born

for people to hear that because you know

I don't have necessarily weight issues I

don't have blood sugar issues most

people you know searching for

health-related topics are trying to lose

body fat trying to balance her blood

sugar but I have other issues that I'm

dealing with and I we need to have a

positive mindset that our body and our

mind are malleable that's been the

biggest change yeah that's super

interesting so I want to go back to that

we're 15 outpatient becomes the best

thing why was that the best thing and

how did it lead to fitness because I

didn't think I had a problem I didn't

think that

my parents didn't understand me or

whatever this is what kids do I mean

come on

you know people smoke pot and drink all

the time you guys probably did it too

and I didn't realize how behind in

school I was I didn't realize how

stunted emotionally I was I didn't

realize that I couldn't effectively

communicate with people like literally

verbally and look people in the eyes all

of that because I hid behind the

substances you know and the little

relationships that I had back then were

all under the influence and so it forced

me to get outside of my comfort zone and

learn new skill sets learn how to

approach women learn how to read and to

relearn how to read alphabet

multiplication tables literally and how

did it get into weightlifting is my

stepmother introduced me to a

chiropractor and he said you know what

to get stronger and everything you need

to to do these compound movements squats

deadlifts presses and they're just like

you look you have potential Mike you

need to just course-correct here and

yeah so that's how I got into it and you

know I realized that if I can change my

body I could probably do the same thing

to my mind the weights give me a lot of

self-confidence and then eventually that

gave me the self-confidence that I can

learn in school and then I did a pre-med

route and everything like that and so

without the weights I don't think I

would have had that and the ability to

change my physique probably would not

have had the self-confidence that I

could learn biology and that I could

actually study and do the MCAT the

medical school aptitude tests and things

like that right so I think a lot of

people look at people that lift weights

and think meathead or you're just doing

this for looks but there's so many so

much carryover mentally that occur and

so that's why I love to have all my

clients do some sort of resistance

training or some exercise that's

quantifiable a lot of people go to the

gym and just do the elliptical for 20

minutes but you can't really quantify if

you're gaining you know if you're

improving or not because you're just

doing time you're looking at heart rate

so if you're gonna do cardio I recommend

training with watts or power if you're

doing yoga it's a little bit easier to

quantify because you can see if you're

getting into a position better you can

hold it for longer and weights and even

CrossFit or powerlifting offer that

feedback so we know for improving yeah

it's

I'm so with you on the notion that if

somebody's struggling mentally the first

thing that I would recommend to them is

to go work out and the reason is the

self respect self belief are I think

some of the biggest things that people

struggle from and sitting there and

looking in the mirror and telling

yourself that you love yourself is it's

probably not a bad start but it's never

gonna get you there because if you don't

do something that you actually respect

you're not going to develop the self

respect working out lifting it's hard

it's difficult you have to sustain

effort but you do see that loop of I did

this thing I stayed focused I was

disciplined I pushed beyond my comfort

zone and I got a result and I look

better which triggers that intrinsic

like when you look better you feel

better as you're getting stronger you

feel better you have that more

confidence but it's fascinating to me

how few people are able to apply that to

the rest of their life

like you'll see a lot of people they

crush it in the gym they obviously

understand that you put in that effort

and you get this tremendous reward but

they don't make the leap of if I can do

it to my body I can do it to my brain

what was the insight there that let you

believe that did it just seem

intuitively true to you or did you read

something somebody say something

sometimes we beat ourselves up and we

say to ourselves I'm not fit I never

will be fit I've always been fat I've

always been poor whatever it may be but

like you said these small steps and mark

bell talks about this just putting

points in the scoreboard just getting a

little bit a small win and so I think

some people can really change your

mindset by starting the day off with a

small win I know I can screw my whole

day up if the first thing I do is look

at Instagram or YouTube or something

because then I'm stressed out and I'm

irritated that I didn't do my routine

and and look there's days that I don't

like working out I mean I talk about

working out all the time

there's days that I don't like going to

the gym but you still go and and I

always share there's so many Instagram

those days that I really am dogged hire

and I don't want to go but I go I feel

so much better and so I'd imagine I

don't know this for sure but that Steve

Jobs there was days he didn't want to

show up at work but he did it anyway and

look at the magic jeff bezos many

entrepreneurs many athletes probably the

same and so I think some people are just

their health is in such a state where

they just don't have the energy but they

need to realize that sometimes we you

know how seemingly health people don't

have the energy to but you do it anyway

mmm no that makes sense

I want to go back to where we started

with the fasting so I've never noticed

the mental clarity thing that people

talk a lot about so I think I would have

if I were going from poor diet to

fasting then I think because you're

getting rid of the brain fog that you

can get from especially a high high carb

diet especially if you're getting a lot

of sugar but you said that you like to

do interviews and things in a fasted

State because you're you think you're

clearer sharper faster I do yeah you

know I this is you bring up a great

point it's this biochemical

individuality and I think we hear you

know ketones are great so I need to be

in ketosis to feel great but everyone

operates at a different level

I just find for me personally everything

is easier if you took exile genus

ketones would you get the same mental

clarity is it the lack of something or

the presence of ketones such an awesome

question I think it's the presence of

the ketones personally have you tried

exogenous I have yeah I've noticed that

I mean the jacker ketones right up which

I would love to get back to because a

lot of people are chasing ketones for

fat loss which I don't think is ideal

but for the mental benefits I think the

presence of ketones has a lot of

potential how often do you take them

I only take them when I travel like and

sometimes before bed what did you take

them and you travel for what reason

because I believe that traveling is

stressful on the body in a way that the

ionizing radiation whatever your this

sounds totally woohoo I know but the

Wi-Fi in the airplanes the recycled air

I usually just feel tired more tired

than I normally would considering it's

just like an hour flight or two hour or

whatever so I like to take them before

because part of the reason why ketones

are so exciting to me is how they affect

our gene signaling and protect our DNA

and affect it you know we talk about

ever heard it protects DNA walk yeah

through the through the sirtuin enzymes

and it's a big long fancy word the

histone deacetylase inhibitors HDX

these are common targets for various

chemotherapy drugs the

hot they're upregulated when we fast

wouldn't be exercise and when we're in

ketosis and maybe perhaps when we take

drugs like metformin or rapa myosin so

these are molecular switches that not

only affect our body's preference for

which fuel we utilize glucose ketones

fats etc but they affect their like

affect stress response pathways and

including a toff adji and and others so

yeah if you're traveling if you're

sitting if you're gonna be in a

stressful environment if your occupation

this is a big one for a lot of people

working at a hair salon or if they're

cleaning homes for example cleaning

apartment complexes whatever exposed to

chemicals I think ketones offer a lot of

benefit in that regard

because you're helping the stress

response pathways that's so interesting

I've never heard about this before so

you're saying if I'm in a diet induced

or fast induced ketogenic state am i up

I'm up regulating the things that the

Excite that stress pathway or is it that

being in a ketogenic state is sort of a

rest and digest parasympathetic place

yeah that's a deep that's a Neve

question we could get into it so a lot

of because it's counterintuitive because

right now if you look at my stress

response hormones I'm twenty four twenty

five hours into a fast my adrenaline

mine or drone when my cortisol are

significantly probably higher compared

to if I just worth eating a normal day

right so logic would suggest that

fasting is stressful but what we see

that's the hormonal side of the stress

response and then we have the autonomic

kind of central nervous system side of

the stress response what we see is

parasympathetic tone and heart rate

variability which is HRV a lot of people

you measure it with your ring that you

know these are or ring this is a proxy

of our autonomic nervous system and that

increases in in favoring more of

resilience so my heart rate variability

is going to go up in a fast correct

interesting yeah it's a wonderful I mean

I think that's the best biomarker people

should use and look if you're brand new

to this and you fast it might decrease

transiently but over time it's going to

improve so like if I don't

need anything tonight when I wake up my

heart rate variability over the evening

time and first morning will be

significantly higher compared to if I

had were to have had two meals per day

and so I think that's a good biomarker

and then you know because there's so

many people that say well it's just

about energy balance calories in

calories out and there's really

intelligent people that speak to that

and I could agree that you can get

results doing that bodybuilders do that

define results short-term body

composition changes may be at the

expense of slowing down your resting

metabolic rate because if we think about

what our resting metabolic rate in Mirat

metabolism is adrenaline noradrenaline

thyroid hormone and dieting prolong

calorie restriction tanks that and so I

think if people again I'm not a fan of

calorie counting by the way but I just

throw it out there because you know

there's some reasonably smart people

that think that ketosis is stupid it's

all about energy balance why do they

think ketosis is stupid because some of

the controlled feeding studies in

metabolic wards show that there's really

no difference in terms of fat loss

between energy equated differences in

macronutrients so if you have someone

that's eating three let's just make it

simple a thousand calories a day yeah

they're a small person and all of that

is maybe it's on a high carb diet

thousand calories a day from a high fat

low carb diet ketogenic diet in two

weeks in a metabolic award study maybe

there's not much difference in fat loss

so they say see you guys this it doesn't

matter it's just energy and energy out

and yeah I'm not really totally

concerned about fat loss is the best

proxy of health number one number two

these are short duration studies in a

controlled environment people are not

living their normal life well let's this

this is really interesting to me and I'm

in that wonderfully dangerous place if I

know enough to get myself into trouble

so let's be nice an inflammatory if if

they're just equal Y is ketones stupid

or why is ketogenic stupid because on

get a downside

it's mean either because individuals

will say you're eliminating a major food

group carbohydrates fiber and they'll

say it's restrictive I think it comes

down to trade-off and what are your

goals if I'm trying to optimize

testosterone if I'm trying to put on as

much muscle as possible benchpress

deadlift squat power lift

as much as possible I'm not gonna give a

crap about the ketogenic diet right

because those are short term goals

presumably but wouldn't you still be

really cognizant of what form the

calories come in because I get the the

one thing about the calorie is a calorie

that makes me super tense is your cells

are made of the food that you take in

and so let's just take trans fats as an

example where do the physical structure

of the fat molecule is I'll call it

damaged it's rigid so if you're taking

rigid fat into your cell membranes and

your cells theoretically become more

brittle is that a fair assessment agree

so that's where like that all seems to

break down like I definitively do not

have all the answers in no uncertain

terms I'm ignorant to far more than I'm

not ignorant to I just don't quite

understand the veracity with which

people say you can completely disregard

the constituent parts of the food I'm

not like forget ketogenic so whatever

sure I'm not going to bat for keto or

against it I'm just saying it would seem

to me that there's more than just the

Kalima tree reading of a food item that

we need to take into consider and a

hundred percent agreement with you not

only you know our our cells liver cells

brain cells etc made up of the molecules

that you mentioned the macromolecules

micro molecules etc but different food

and different macromolecules that it for

nutrients in food effect signaling

pathways gene expression microbiome

composition so there's a it's not just

food can't be relegated to you know

carbides carbs fats proteins DNA protein

water we need to look at these other

things so I but they don't talk about

that and so I'm trying to have an open

mind and try to get the perspective of

the calorie counting people because

these are seemingly logic people logic

people logical people PhDs or MDS so I'm

like what is it that I'm missing and

most of the pundits and people promoting

this idea will refer to a doctor Hobbes

I believe is his name at a University of

Kansas Kansas State something in there

where he did a study on himself an end

of one experiment in 2011 I believe the

Twinkie died the Twinkie diet and it

made a lot of yeah

then okay so one dude when I say I love

your approach you you absolutely have to

be open-minded and the last thing I want

to do is be dogmatic because you just

like I'm not interested in being right

I'm interested in having the right

answer this one though this one feels

like a religious argument where it it

would seem that the people that say this

are interested in being right

clearly there's just so much at play it

just seems weird to get like so super

caught up in that you can get lien on a

Twinkie for sure I think you're gonna

have a whole host of other problems it

would seem absolutely and that's why

that study hasn't been replicated and it

speaks to what you were just looting too

I mean yeah you can get lean doing

various things but is being lean the

absence of fat the presence of health

does that equate health we know many

bodybuilders who are very lean six

percent body fat

after a competition they have a

congestive heart failure heart attack or

die so it's not that you know body fat

absolutely can have problems and

challenges and is linked with

inflammation and where your body fat

sits is a big deal but that's where I

think it gives people power because it's

not just about your diet

it's about your sleep your relationships

your stress management you know your

mindset exercise you're kidding rhythms

there's all these things and if you you

know just relegate food to just calories

it you miss all that but it brings back

to what you were saying it's not about

being right you know and I think people

and I've learned this myself I've had to

have an open mind like because I read

negative ketogenic diet studies because

I want to challenge my own beliefs so I

don't I'm not in this echo chamber I

talk about those negative kinetic

studies and when I'm reading it I'm

trying to have remove my bias it's very

hard as human beings our mind is wired

to be very biased we're constantly when

we watch videos like this or read books

we're trying to confirm what we already

believe you know what I mean and so we

need to kind of remove ourselves from

that a little bit and and realize that's

how we're wired and we're set up that

way but it doesn't mean we have to be

that way yeah it's really interesting

so uh-huh there's no question that we

all have that bias and I will definitely

let myself in there but if your

obsession is like for instance if your

obsession is longevity or feeling good

or whatever it's like you can pretty

easily get out of your own way on that

and then just steer by what makes

something feel good or not feel good one

of the things that at least on a

ketogenic diet that I find so

interesting is it changes your

relationship to hunger I can fast for i

intermittent fast every day my averages

call it 20 hours a day so every day I'm

you know I'm fasting roughly 20 hours a

day but when I look at like what the

primary driver for me in terms of

wanting to be open to something is to

have an even better effect so if

somebody said no no if you eat Twinkies

you're gonna feel even better

Oh rad then I will try it one that

sounds a lot more fun and then to you

can see like where you fall in something

but where do you live in terms of diet

are you always keto are you sometimes

keto you've talked about seasonal eating

like how sort of do you structure your

day-to-day living it's an awesome

question I think everyone needs to think

about what their unique goals are so for

me

trying to optimize brain function that's

just my primary goal and then when I

exercise I want to optimize my physical

performance like if I'm gonna do a lot

of volume I will have carbohydrates so I

guess you could call it like a targeted

cyclical ketogenic style diet if I'm

sitting here traveling

yeah I've been sitting all day I'm gonna

go on an airplane in an hour or two

after this you know I don't need carbs

for that I don't need sweet potatoes I

don't need butternut squash so it's

mostly a fasted low-calorie type day so

yeah I mean my approach is just you know

have the carbohydrate commensurate with

the activity so if you're not doing much

activity you probably don't need a lot

of carbs and so when I think about like

managing the microbiome and trying to

get as much diversity I

I will eat things that regard like let's

say that I never worked out I would

still bring in things like berries or

maybe even the occasional piece of fruit

or something just to try to introduce as

much variety as I can I'm talking color

so that we're you know getting

micronutrient variety as well just

making sure that I have a robust

microbiome that has a lot of different

diversity do you think that's [ __ ]

does that make sense

somebody doesn't have an increased need

for carbohydrate is there still a reason

for diversity of microbiome to eat rice

or vegetables or fruits or berries

it's a beautiful question five years ago

I would have said absolutely but that's

and that's why I was hesitant to even

coquito in the first place did a lot of

research into you know how different

foods and overall food diversity affects

diversity here at OU microbiome and so

we know that I thought that was the most

important thing and some research out of

UCLA recently showed that actually

ketones may influence those different

strains Ackerman's emu sena philia fecal

matter and presidency i these are common

strains that are kind of like these

keystone species that influence the

diversity and really when we talk about

when people are chasing and i understand

where you're coming from but so everyone

understands the context why is gut

microbiome diversity healthy it

translates into stability stability in

any ecosystem is resilient right it can

take little small hits how do you over

how do you can circumvent this

practically I think it's unless you have

an autoimmune disease unless you have

severe gastrointestinal dysfunction when

you have a berry or rosemary or ginger I

think it's best to eat what's in season

in your environment do I have a

randomized [ __ ] I live in or in the

environment ancestrally that I came from

I think it's a combination of the two I

think if you can keep in mind your

genetics and context but also your local

environment if we take your microbiome

now and then put you in Africa it's

going to be different absolutely because

the water the bugs are you exposed to

the people you're in contact with so I

but your genes are not going to change

so I think it's it's melding the two I

think you have to the only diet that

humans could eat before the advent of

electricity gas for iteration and so

forth was what was available to them

locally and here we have and I'm not

picking on green juice or whatever but

let's say in January where there's no

vegetables growing in Wisconsin you're

having a celery juice because it's

healthy how healthy really is that

because we know that hibernating animals

for example their microbiome composition

and diversity changes with the season so

is it is it the food is it the seasons

there's

long swear swear there's a lot of

crosstalk between our micro bomb and our

own tissues and so their community

communicating to us and were

communicating to them and so I think

getting back to the practical take away

from this whole conversation is we need

to understand the food that we eat is in

being absorbed by us but it's being

utilized and absorbed by those gut

bacteria as well and we need to as many

of your guests have talked about keep

that in mind because I think that

relationship is fairly important and

studies show that and we know that kids

that get antibiotics and the first year

of life tend to be AB more autoimmune

and allergies and even obesity later and

just not being birth through our

mother's vagina as opposed being

delivered at c-section lack of

breastfeed there's so many different

things but you know is the dearth or the

lack of fiber gonna negate the might

health of the microbiome again five

years ago when I said absolutely now I'm

like all these people are thriving on

meat only diets mmm

you know if we think the microbiome

imbalances are triggering autoimmunity

yet these people are reversing

autoimmunity through a meat only diet

let's talk about that so carnivore diet

pretty interesting are I hear a lot

about people doing beef only which is

interesting and so when my wife first

started having crazy microbiome issues

basically unintentionally she just was

going towards like what makes her feel

okay she gravitated towards a wildly

predominantly beef diet are there people

that have tried it that are saying I

can't do it with beef but I can do it

with chicken or organ meats or like is

there sort of variety in that or is beef

the one that people consider the safest

of the carnivore diets I think that's

where people are leaning at least the

conversations that I had and I'm not an

expert in this space I thought it was

the dumbest thing people could do ever

because I had my head so wrapped around

this whole microbiome story and I

thought how are you gonna get the fiber

how are we get the short chain

fatty-acids all of this but then I I

listened to the comments on my youtube

videos i read direct messages on my

Instagram and I'm just blown away there

these people are lying or they're

telling me the truth and I really

believe them have you tried it

personally yes why I've been doing it

for the past three months and now right

yeah

not only though so that's the thing

where it's a little bit different so so

we do we have backyard chicken so we do

eggs turkey eggs chicken eggs turkey

exactly yeah I think any animal product

is considered karna Buckeye interesting

what blood markers are you watching

sleep sleep scores heart rate

variability body temperature blood

glucose and ketones my hemoglobin a1c

increased by five tenths of a point so

went from freezed which is surprising

honey yeah four point eight to five

point three but everything else mean

iron ferritin increased which I was

probably expecting eating more red meat

things like that and weird it all about

cholesterol no because my triglycerides

are historically low that's the only one

you worry about well I worry about

cholesterol Winn triglycerides and

glucose and liver enzymes are out of

whack so your liver tends to take the

brunt of metabolic burden first it's a

key the meta box is only hub and so if

your liver enzymes start to rise your

glucose is rising or hemoglobin a1c is

rising then and your triglycerides are

increased then I'm I'm more concerned

about what's going on with your LDL

cholesterol and you know and your low

HDL but without that context I'm not

totally worried about it and the thing

that people don't really realize is like

your body can convert protein via

gluconeogenesis to glucose there's

certain cells and tissues red blood

cells the neuron various central nervous

system cells within our brain that need

absolutely unique glucose they can't use

fats or ketones right protein can be

back converted as can liberating stored

body fat the body fat is you know you

have your triglycerides and you know

your triglyceride on top of that is

glycerol and when you liberate that for

free fatty acids to make ketones that

glycerol gets converted to make glucose

so a lot of people think you need to

have carbs to raise glucose for obligate

glucose utilizing cells but that

glycerol backbone gets shunted right

into that cycle yeah it's it's

interesting Tom I don't know what the

solution is for people should they go

carnivore should they not I think if you

have digestive issues it's worth a shot

and it sounds so polarizing

controversial but you know in functional

minutes

we've been talking about this for a

while we you know people like Jeff bland

and Sid Baker Mark Hyman an elimination

diet which was essentially just

basically plain old white rice and lamb

that was it

like that's almost carnivore in the

sense obviously you're if you overdo the

white rice you're gonna negate some of

that but it was really eliminating all

the variables that could affect the

immune system man I'm really interested

in this one that's the kind of thing I

like to eat like if you told me that I

could have hamburger and eggs I'm done

like I don't need anything other than

that and because I don't struggle like I

could eat a very what most people call

boring diet just because the same thing

over and over and over

I'd be very fine with that like you said

five years ago you'd give a very

different answer five years ago I would

have said yes in fact for accidental

period probably of about six months I

was like vegetables are unimportant you

don't need them and I felt like money I

was absolutely fine I would it was it a

true carnivore dad it must been pretty

fun close like it would have been beef

eggs cheese probably some lettuce and

pickles that would sneak in on burgers

occasion but obviously I don't eat the

bun I don't have ketchup or anything

like that so it would have been real

real close yeah I mean so the question

is you know is are you gonna make your

microbiome or brazillian or not people

should try various diets and see what

works for them and I think a lot of

people get stuck in this regimented

thing where and it can backfire on them

- they're carnivore so then when berries

come in season when people might watch

this towards ya know summer blueberries

gonna be in full swing does that mean

you totally avoid blueberries because

there's I believe I'm not with these

people that think plants are bad I think

blueberries the anthocyanidins and the

bears and you know antioxidants have a

lot of benefit to your microbiome and to

your body in general but then when you

start to identify that you're a

carnivore Aikido or you're vegan you

then you close yourself down a little

bit so I think in your case you don't

have any major health issues that I'm

aware of you know that you've talked

about so I would just continue what

you're doing but maybe in the winter

probably the best time to go carnivore

I'm gonna say [ __ ] you and here's I

don't have I have one health issue and

that is I'm dying

so the only real question I care about

and every healthy RepA so die do is how

do I live forever

like if you're sneering about how you

feel which is essentially what I do I

just don't know what its impact is on

longevity if a carnivore diet like if

somebody could tell me no no a thousand

percent if you do a carnivore die you're

gonna live to 150 I'd be all over the

carnivore diet all day every day I

wouldn't even think about it I'd never

touched another [ __ ] blueberry in my

life like I would just eat it

but it's it's that big [ __ ] question

mark about longevity that winds me up

well let me pose this question to how

could a diet be negatively affecting the

longevity if it makes you feel better it

makes you sleep better if it improves

your heart rate variability if it makes

you stronger if it makes you recover

better how could it slow down your

longevity I mean or effect longevity in

a negative way I don't know maybe I'm

not thinking about this through properly

but it doesn't make sense to me hmm

that's interesting this [ __ ] is so

interesting man like yeah look I love

the experimentation I love the open mind

really be looking for new things in fact

to that point what is something that

you're excited about now totally

improving I get it you're not the expert

you're not like putting your your chip

on the roulette wheel but like what's

something that's cutting-edge right now

that's got you really excited you know I

think the ability to manipulate mTOR has

been very excited so we kind of talked

about mTOR scan to gas pedal aren't our

cells to grow and you know one of the

reasons that you fast one of the main

benefits of fasting prolong Lee is

affecting glucose insulin mitochondrial

function that we introduced the show on

but it it drops them toward to the floor

and we know that chronic mTOR

overexpression is linked with premature

aging diseases so I think the ability

through drugs through exercise and

through fasting protocols to manipulate

this critical energy sensor called mTOR

is super fasting so I think you know

right now in 2019 a lot of people are

micro dosing psilocybin and LSD

I personally experiment with that fairly

often I think in two years people are

going to be micro dosing rapamycin

people are gonna be micro dosing verse

mTOR inhibitors to

- like they're like called calorie

restriction mimetics so we're kind of

manipulating the physiologic effect well

I already [ __ ] with rapamycin it's a

very firm you mentioned the other one

I'm blanking on it right now

like metformin at forming yet it's a

nightmare for me I don't I take

berberine interesting so the one thing

like when the camera stopped rolling

yeah the one thing a lot of people are

like yeah I [ __ ] with it is is that

thousand percent I'm talking with

doctors yeah well I'm like alright then

like it's one of those it is only my

fear of the unknown where it's like if

something seems too good to be true it

probably is and I don't know what cuz

they've been giving it to diabetics and

cancer patients for a long time long

time so I don't know what kind of

studies have come out based on that but

if metformin is probably one of the

safest drugs you can take it's actually

very poorly absorbed here's what's

really good so I'm you know study the

microbiome forever I'm very curious

about how these drugs work yeah like

it's only 33 percent or something like

that is absorbed how is it working it's

affecting your microbiome it's affecting

the gut hormones and your bugs so very

safe the only thing you might need to

add more of would be b12 and folate

because it purportedly does affect

methylation and or absorption but that's

very safe drug i I'm not I wouldn't be

ashamed to take say that I take it I

don't I take berberine so I do that 500

milligrams of berberine hydrochloride

precinct they meant to slow mTOR yeah

well it affects a I don't wanna get

complex into the biochemistry but you

have kind of a yin yang you have em

towards growth ampk is breakdown okay

you know ones either good nor bad they

just are berberine in metformin increase

a and piqué and piqué is a switch just

like in for the switch they're different

knobs so it's breaking down what crap

inside ourselves okay so this is a

little bit like a toffee g NP k and mTOR

are the key sailor switches that

ultimately guide toffee g and govern

whether or not we're going to tear down

break down you know a buret proteins

dysfunctional proteins aggregated

proteins not just functional organelles

we kind of talked about how our cells

are like little homes inside our

appliances those appliances become just

and that's where Otto Fei Jie self

digest comes in and so you have a bad

furnace etaf adji and will help to clear

that a bad furnace in your cell would be

a mitochondria Golgi apparatus and a

plasmic reticulum there's all these

different compartments it's even

speculated that the ability to break

down fat and glycogen stored glucose is

a toughie G mediated even recovering

from exercise this is what's so cool so

when we feel sore after workout how do

you think our body recovers from that

it's via etaf G and breaking down those

damaged proteins so that we can rebuild

them so that they're stronger for our

next workout so I like to throw that in

there because when people hear a toff G

they think fasting but that's just one

knob on the citta Fuji wheel exercise

there's a ton of data showing an

exercise enhances the toff G because

you're causing your body to dig deep and

break down glycogen for that workout

yeah that makes sense

alright I'm gonna put you to the test

for a second so hiding behind this

screen door number one is somebody I'm

not going to tell you anything about

them and I can tell you if they're a man

or woman overweight ripped whatever but

you have to tell them how to eat for

longevity and feeling good how should

they eat I would say Sally or Joe look I

don't know what your health issues are I

don't know what you're experiencing but

we're gonna get you off anything that

comes in a box bag or a cans no

processed food no processed food I want

you to go to a farmer that's within a 50

mile radius of you ask them what you can

buy that's in season and and buy the

animal products that you feel

comfortable consuming I don't really

care so much as what you eat and how

much I want you eating at the same time

every day whatever that is so

influencing the circadian rhythm so

there's a lot of new research studies

where they're controlling how many

calories people are in the same amount

of calories but if they force it into a

confined window it changes this mTOR

expression it's not just a defined

window but the same defined window every

day you hit

exactly so if you you're gonna interment

fast great then eat from say no noon to

6:00 or 2 to 8 with it doesn't matter

but just try to be consistent

just like we should try to go to bed at

the same time and wake up at the same

time you know we hear a lot about toxic

blue light well when we eat and food in

general affects our circadian biology we

have molecular clocks in our gut and our

muscle in our brain and our pancreas

everywhere food in trains that clock -

mm-hmm that's really interesting I

haven't heard that before

is there a number of hours before going

to bed that somebody should be cognizant

of having their last meal so eating

earlier is generally better so you don't

and it's tough to be social too because

here we are talking about food but

relationships are so key and you know

you know when you go out to dinner

sometimes you're out to 10 or 11 eating

late I generally advise people to kind

of cut things off by 7:00 p.m. which can

be tough for whatever you know if the

person didn't have any concerns about a

social life what would be the ideal

window I mean me personally I would say

at 10:00 to 4:00 10 a.m. before and it's

controversial to talk about this because

a lot of people are skipping breakfast

and lunch and just having dinner if

that's working for you keep doing it I

don't ever want someone to change what's

working for them just upon research that

I tell them but there's some research

from University of I believe it's

Arkansas one in Alabama as well that

they're looking at ETF which is early

time restricted feeding so if you look

at this umbrella of intermittent fasting

within that or different protocols

alternate day fasting 5 to 16 8 were you

fasting like you fast for 24 basically

yeah 20 hours a day within that is this

time restricted feeding bubble and they

are having subjects eat earlier in the

day so they started eating at 8 and

cutting off at 2:00

now was it and what they showed is there

was a dramatic increase in etaf adji

just by doing that changes in hormones

changes in glucose insulin but we always

think well if a Tophet is good more is

better but if we think in overweight

people their fat cells have higher

levels of Vltava G occurring it's a

compensatory mechanism because if you

were to it sounds weird but if you were

to biopsy someone who's

or billy obese and you look at their fat

tissue there's a lot of necrosis and

like literally tissues are dying there's

a lot of immune cells so if you didn't

know anything about a toff adji and you

looked at adipocytes and obesity you

would think of Tov which is bad because

it's upregulated and so I just want

people to understand in certain cancers

utilize a Tov G upregulation to avert

the immune system to help it

so it's interesting so it's not this

clear some it's good or bad it's

contextualized and tissue specific and

sometimes more is not better so that a

lot of people are doing hey I did a

24-hour fast one let's just roll it out

to 96 hours 72 hours well what are your

goals why are you doing this sometimes

more is not better and when isn't it

better because so if I knew for instance

that fasting 100% would keep you

cancer-free but you have to do let's say

a 14-day fast I would do it I would do

it every year so when it is when is too

much too much you know I think when is

too much is when it affects your sleep

when it affects your recovery and your

muscle performance when you start seeing

negative side effects when is it ideal

when you feel good you know I'm not sure

what the ideal situation is really drew

so when I think okay so now let's make

it real practical for me I'll just be

selfish for a minute so I hate doing a

five-day fast because my productivity

falls through the [ __ ] roof or floor

after 72 hours 72 hours is very doable I

can stay focused I still have energy all

that but the last two days are gnarly

and I start feeling sick and and I'm

just slowing down and I don't have my

energy and I find myself zoning out so

if it isn't advantageous I want to stop

doing it but I know that my motives

aren't pure so I'm gonna need some

compelling evidence here here's my

thought is a toff adji you know is

influenced by circadian rhythms by

epigenetics or whatever just like

exercise why not make it more consistent

and shorter

so every week do a 24-hour fast does

everyone need to do that no but if

you're looking for longevity like you

are and then every quarter do a little

bit of longer one like three days or two

days or whatever right so there's a

little bit more consistency if you I did

the math if you look at the course of a

year you fast every Monday for 24 hours

if you don't do any other prolonged fast

besides that you're fasting for 16

percent of the entire calendar year that

gets you pretty close to that 20 percent

calorie restriction that's well known

and it's a good proxy for longevity

enhancement and least in animals and

other humans without having to really

restrict yourself anything else above

that and Maya's is just bonus so if you

do a three-day fast or four-day fast

every six months that's just icing on

the cake and that can get you closer to

that 20% mmm all right where can people

find you yeah so my website pretty

active on YouTube and Instagram high

intensity health is website Instagram

metabolic undersquare Mike and I have

used your podcast a thousand times and

prepped for this very show so it's been

a lot of fun to have you on here I've

spent a lot of time listening to you

interview people and go really deep on

some awesome topics and then one last

question for you if you were gonna have

people make one change that would have

the biggest impact on their health what

one change would you have to make yeah

prioritize their sleep you know so much

magic happens in sleep and a lot of us

do to our busy lives social media

connections work we're on our phones in

bed we're not really you know

prioritizing sleep like we do in other

areas and I know that catches up to us

later especially in our children and

children are uniquely susceptible to

sleep and balances and now the kids have

phone so we need to make sure to make

wherever we sleep in our home apartment

condo wherever it is that is like a

haven that is forcing you to get that

repair that you need because just living

just thinking just being awake during

the day it creates a metabolic stress

metal ball garbage that you need to

eliminate that only happens when you

sleep so I think that's a huge one all

right Mike thank you thanks so much

putting a lot on yeah absolutely

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