Joker: Folie a Deux - The Sequel Nobody Wanted
Summary
TLDRThe reviewer expresses disappointment in *Joker 2*, feeling that it fails to justify its existence as a sequel. Despite strong performances from Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga, the movie is seen as unnecessary and lacking the complexity of the original. The film reverts Arthur Fleck's character back to his weaker self and features musical numbers that, while entertaining, serve more as distractions from an uninspired drama. The story explores Arthur's trial and relationships, but the courtroom scenes feel like dry recaps, diminishing the ambiguity that made the first *Joker* so compelling.
Takeaways
- 🎬 The first Joker movie was an unexpected success, overcoming many factors that should have worked against it.
- 💡 Joker's small, intimate, and complex story resonated with audiences, largely due to Joaquin Phoenix's outstanding performance.
- 🤔 There were initial doubts about the necessity of a Joker sequel, especially given its announcement as a musical starring Lady Gaga.
- ⚖️ Joker 2 picks up after Arthur Fleck's arrest and confinement in Arkham Asylum, with the plot centering around his trial and romantic relationship with a woman named Lee Quinn.
- 🃏 The film explores Arthur’s Joker persona and whether it is a split personality or part of him all along.
- 🎭 While Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga give strong performances, the film struggles with the same compelling intensity as the first movie.
- 💔 Joker 2 focuses on the idea of celebrity, myth vs. reality, but doesn't deliver the same impact as the original film.
- 📉 Arthur's character regresses, undoing his final transformation from the first movie, which feels like a frustrating deconstruction to the reviewer.
- 🎶 The musical elements, although performed well, feel like distractions from the film's otherwise uninspiring drama.
- 😕 Ultimately, Joker 2 feels like a bloated, unnecessary sequel that fails to live up to the original’s ambiguity and psychological depth.
Q & A
What was the initial perception of the first *Joker* movie according to the script?
-The first *Joker* movie was initially perceived as a risky project with many potential flaws. It was a low-budget film about a Batman villain that no one seemed to want, directed by Todd Phillips, known for comedies. The film also faced accusations from the media of promoting violence and misogyny.
What made the first *Joker* movie unexpectedly successful?
-The first *Joker* movie became successful because it told a small, intimate, and complex story of a man pushed into madness by an indifferent society. Joaquin Phoenix’s performance and the film's ability to raise more questions than answers contributed to its unexpected success.
What concerns did the script's author express about a sequel to the *Joker*?
-The author was perplexed by the decision to make a sequel to *Joker*, especially because the first film felt complete and did not require continuation. The author was also concerned about the sequel being a musical co-starring Lady Gaga, fearing it could undermine the integrity of the original.
How did the author feel after watching *Joker 2*?
-The author found *Joker 2* to be a dull, bloated, and ultimately unnecessary movie. Although there were talented people working on the film and the ending sparked discussions, the movie felt uninspired and failed to answer the question of why it even existed.
What is the central storyline of *Joker 2* as described in the script?
-In *Joker 2*, Arthur Fleck is locked up in Arkham Asylum after being arrested for the murders in the first film. His lawyer argues insanity, while prosecutor Harvey Dent pushes for the death penalty. Arthur starts a romance with a woman named Lee Quinn, but the film questions whether her interest is in Arthur or his Joker persona.
What themes are explored in *Joker 2* based on the script?
-The movie explores themes such as the intoxicating danger of celebrity and the divide between myth and reality. It questions how much of Arthur’s personality was the Joker all along and delves into the interactions between Arthur and Lee Quinn, leaving the audience wondering which moments were real.
How does the portrayal of Arthur Fleck in *Joker 2* differ from the first film?
-In *Joker 2*, Arthur regresses to his timid, weak personality from the beginning of the first film, which the author finds frustrating. The deconstruction of Arthur's character feels like a regression instead of development, undoing the cathartic moment when Arthur embraced his Joker persona at the end of the first movie.
What is the author’s view on the musical numbers in *Joker 2*?
-Surprisingly, the author enjoyed the musical performances, particularly those by Lady Gaga, but ultimately felt they were used as distractions to cover up a weak and uninspired narrative. The musical numbers provided spectacle but couldn’t elevate the film’s dull courtroom scenes.
How does the courtroom narrative affect the story of *Joker 2*?
-The courtroom scenes in *Joker 2* feel like a dry recap of the first film, destroying the ambiguity that made the original intriguing. Instead of allowing for multiple interpretations, the film lays out exactly what happened, which the author views as a waste of the original’s mystery.
What conclusion does the author reach about *Joker 2*?
-The author concludes that *Joker 2* is an unnecessary sequel. Despite the talents involved, the film failed to justify its existence and left the author feeling bored and disconnected at times, unlike the original *Joker*.
Outlines
🤯 Unexpected Success of the First Joker Movie
The first Joker movie was an unlikely success, surpassing expectations despite its low budget and controversial reputation. Directed by Todd Phillips, known for comedies, it faced skepticism for potentially promoting violence and misogyny. However, the film’s intimate, complex portrayal of Arthur Fleck’s descent into madness, set against an indifferent society, resonated with audiences. Joaquin Phoenix delivered a standout performance, making the unreliable narrator aspect captivating. The film's ambiguous ending left viewers with more questions than answers, making it feel like a perfect standalone film, which is why the announcement of a sequel surprised many.
🎶 Concerns and Doubts About the Sequel
The announcement of a sequel to the Joker movie, especially one as a musical featuring Lady Gaga, raised concerns. The narrator, like many fans, felt a mix of confusion and worry about whether this sequel was necessary and feared it could undermine the integrity of the original film. While attempting to suppress these concerns, they ultimately concluded that the sequel fell short. Despite talented actors and a conversation-sparking ending, Joker 2 felt long, unnecessary, and didn't seem to justify its existence, leaving audiences wondering why the film was made in the first place.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Joker
💡Arthur Fleck
💡Arkham Asylum
💡Lady Gaga
💡Musical
💡Romance
💡Courtroom scenes
💡Harvey Dent
💡Character regression
💡Ambiguity
Highlights
The first Joker movie was a rare instance of cinematic serendipity, where everything that should have been wrong came together to create a brilliant film.
The Joker dared to tell a small, intimate, and complex story of a man pushed into madness by a society that was indifferent to him.
Joaquin Phoenix’s performance in the first film was superb, driving the narrative with an unreliable narrator and leaving audiences with more questions than answers.
The original Joker movie was seen as a complete story, leaving many viewers skeptical about the need for a sequel.
Concerns arose when it was announced that Joker 2 would be a musical co-starring Lady Gaga, creating skepticism about the direction of the sequel.
Despite initial doubts, the film attracted a talented team, with Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga delivering strong performances.
The film centers on Arthur Fleck (Joker) meeting a woman named Lee Quinn in Arkham Asylum, starting a romance that challenges his Joker persona.
Lady Gaga’s performance as a Joker fan enamored with the persona rather than the man added an interesting dynamic to the film’s theme of celebrity worship.
The movie explores the theme of the blurred line between myth and reality in the Joker’s persona, although less effectively than the original.
Critics felt that Joker 2 regressed Arthur’s character back to his weaker, timid personality, undoing the development seen at the end of the first film.
The courtroom scenes, which recapped much of the first film’s events, removed the ambiguity that made the original so compelling.
The movie’s musical numbers, though visually and audibly engaging, were seen as distractions from an otherwise uninspiring and bloated drama.
Joaquin Phoenix gave an intense performance, but it closely mirrored his work in the first film, raising concerns about redundancy.
The film’s ending is expected to generate discussion, but overall, Joker 2 left viewers questioning its necessity and purpose.
Ultimately, Joker 2 felt like a studio-mandated sequel trying to recapture the original’s magic, but it failed to justify its existence.
Transcripts
wow I guess time really does make fools
of us all the first Joker movie was one
of those rare moments of cinematic
Serendipity where everything that should
have been wrong somehow came together to
become absolutely right a lowbudget
origin story about a Batman villain that
nobody asked for directed by a guy best
known for making comedies that proed the
law of diminishing returns and shadowed
by media accusations of promoting
violence misogyny and generalized
buffoonery it was a film that seemingly
had everything going against it but some
somehow turned out way better than it
had any right to be in a sea of
oversaturated CGI sludge The Joker dared
to tell a small intimate complex story
of a man pushed into madness and despair
by a society that was blindly
indifferent to him a movie with a
wonderfully unreliable narrator driven
by a superb performance by Wakim Phoenix
and an ending that left the audience
with more questions than answers it was
a perfect oneandone movie that told its
story and told it well no need to do
anything more with a character like that
because it would just cheapen The
Experience so like the rest of you I was
a bit perplexed when I find out that
joker was getting a sequel and even more
concerned when it was announced as a
musical co-star in Lady
Gaga but just like everyone else I tried
to suppress my doubts and ignore that
nagging feeling in the pit of my stomach
that this movie was fundamentally a bad
idea surely to goodness Todd Phillips
knows what he's doing and wouldn't just
sh out some lame cash grab sequel that
undermines the Integrity of the original
right
wrong then I sat down and watched
it and if all two and a half hours of
Joker F proves anything at all it's that
sometimes you really ought to listen to
your instincts yeah there's definitely
good elements in there you can see that
talented people were working on this
movie and the ending is definitely going
to get people talking but overall Joker
2 felt like a dull bloated and
ultimately unnecessary movie that failed
to answer the question that's dogged it
since the beginning why does this film
even exist now I know it's just come out
and I don't want to spoil it for people
so I'm going to keep my plot summary
short and sweet unlike this [ __ ]
movie so with that in mind let's go the
story picks up shortly after the events
of the first film where Arthur Fleck has
been arrested and locked up in Arkham
Asylum while he awaits trial for all the
murders that he committed his lawyer
wants to plead Insanity while the
prosecutor Harvey Dent's pushing for the
death penalty bad times indeed but while
he's at Arkham he meets a young woman
named Lee Quinn and soon starts a bit of
a romance with her but is it really
Arthur that she's into or is Joker
personality and what's her true
motivation for being there well you'll
have to wait and find out anyway the
case goes to trial and Arthur's soon
confronted by the reality of what he did
in the first film by going over most of
the key events again but how responsible
was he for what happened was the Joker
really a split personality that took
over him or just part of him all along
and what will Harley Quinn think of him
when she finds out the truth Joker 2 is
kind of a frustrating movie to watch
because in a lot of ways I can see how
hard many of the people involved are
trying to make it work Wakee Phoenix
delivers the same intense compelling
performance as the first movie arguably
a bit too similar but we'll get into
that one in a minute the point is though
he's definitely given the role his all
and some of his scenes are genuinely
compelling Lady Gaga much to my surprise
also turns in a good performance as a
crazy Super Fan enamored by the
flamboyant Persona of the Joker rather
than the Flesh and Blood Man Behind it
and if you're inclined to look for
themes in this film it's an interesting
insight into the intoxicating danger of
celebrity and the vast Gulf between myth
and reality the two actors play well off
each other and the kind of Twisted
romance they cultivate seems pretty
appropriate for a movie like this and
the film even has you questioning which
of their interactions even happened for
real it doesn't do it as effectively as
the first movie but it's something at
least the thing is I'm pretty sure that
the Comic version of Quinn was more like
the Joker's play thing rather than a
manipulative F fatal stringing him along
but again it probably fits with what we
know about this version of Joker and I
guess that brings me along to my
criticisms the biggest of which is the
deconstruction of Arthur himself the
ending of the first movie saw him fully
Embraces Joker Persona shed in the last
remnants of his old weak victimized
personality and embracing The Madness of
the world around him it was a logical
end point for a man who had been
desperately trying to swim against the
tide for most of the film and it was
kind of cathartic to see him finally let
go it was a final [ __ ] you to the world
that had kicked him to the ground again
and again a world reduced to Fire and
Chaos all of that good work seems to
have been undone here because for most
of the film he's reverted to the same
weak timid Arthur that he was at the
start of the first movie and I can't
shake the feeling that there's something
almost mean-spirited in that kind of
deconstruction as if they're taking a
swipe at the audience themselves for
liking someone they weren't supposed to
I don't know man it just feels like
character regression instead of
development for for me then there's the
musical numbers that pepper The
Narrative I can't believe I'm saying
this because normally I [ __ ] hate
musicals but I actually kind of enjoyed
the sheer spectacle and performances
while I was watching
them gay and Lady Gaga clearly doesn't
have any trouble buting out her numbers
but the more I think about it the more I
see them as shiny objects trying to
distract from what's actually a pretty
stodgy bloed and uninspiring drama the
court room seems are basically just a
dry recap of the first film telling us
things that we mostly already know and
destroying that awesome sense of
ambiguity and unreality that made it
such a fascinating story to pick apart
now we know exactly what did and didn't
happen and [ __ ] man it feels like such a
waste and most disappointingly of all I
actually found myself kind of bored and
checked out at times something that
absolutely never happened with the
original movie as I said before the
question hanging over Joker 2 was is
this a story that really needed to be
told or is it just a bunch of talented
people doing doing their best to elevate
a studio mandated sequel into something
that it isn't well now that I've seen it
I'm afraid I know the answer and it's
not a good
one anyway that's all I've got for today
go away now
5.0 / 5 (0 votes)