Tom Clancy Speaks at the National Security Agency

Summary

このビデオ脚本は、1984年のラトビアのリガで起こった異常に興味深い事件を語る。その日、苏联海軍の巡洋艦の士官たちが過度に酒を飲んでいたため、乗組員の一部がスウェーデンへの逃亡を企図した。しかし、彼らは幸運を逃し、艦を停止させるために空爆撃を受ける運命だった。この事件は、作家が後に小説「レッド・オクトーバー」のインスピレーションを得る根拠となり、また、情報工作と軍事作戦の重要性を強調する。

Takeaways

• 🚀 スクリプトは、1980年代の冷戦時代の艦艇や潜水艦に関するトピックを扱っています。
• ⛵ スクリプトでは、作家が自身の経験と研究に基づいて小説を書くプロセスについて語っています。
• 🎭 作家は、米軍やロシア軍の艦艇や潜水艦の運用に関する詳細な情報を元に小説を創作しています。
• 🔍 スクリプトでは、作家が情報収集と研究の重要性を強調していますが、機密情報を漏洩することはないと述べています。
• 📚 作家は、公に入手できる資料やゲームから情報を得て小説を書いていると語っています。
• 🇬🇧 スクリプトでは、作家がイギリスとアメリカの軍事組織と密接な関係にあると示しています。
• 📖 作家は、小説「レッド・オクトーバー」の創作プロセスとその背景について語っています。
• 🌐 スクリプトでは、作家が現在の小説「パトリオット・ゲームズ」のテーマであるアイルランドのテロリズムについて触れています。
• 🗣️ 作家は、テロリズムの予防と情報収集の重要性を強調しています。
• 🏆 スクリプトでは、作家が作品が大好きで、それが彼のキャリアに与えた影響について述べています。

Q & A

1985年11月8日にリガで何が起こったのか？

1985年11月8日にリガで異常な出来事が起こりました。アクロバット級ミサイルフリゲート「トーダシェフ」が、船員の一部によって乗っ取られ、スウェーデンへの逃亡を試みたのです。

トーダシェフ号の乗組員はなぜスウェーデンに逃げようとしたのか？

トーダシェフ号の高級士官たちは前日の祝日に酔っ払ってしまい、船員の一部がこの状況を利用してスウェーデンへの逃亡を企てたとされています。

トーダシェフ号の反乱のリーダーは誰ですか？

反乱のリーダーは船の政治士官、つまりアテーイストのためのチャPLAINのような立場のキャプテン第三位のヴァレリ・ミハイロヴィッチ・ヴォブキニンでした。

逃亡を試みた船員たちはどれくらい進んだのか？

彼らは非常に不幸でしたが、スウェーデンのゴトランド島に向かって300海里弱の距離を走ったところでソビエト海軍に発見されてしまいました。

逃亡を阻止するためにソビエト海軍はどのような行動をとったのか？

ソビエト海軍は航空機と艦艇を派遣して全弾丸を発射し、トーダシェフ号の舵を損傷させ停止させました。その後、船を連行して港に戻しました。

キャプテン・サブリンはその後どうされましたか？

キャプテン・サブリンはモスクワに連行され、翌春に公平な裁判を受けた後、処刑されました。

トーダシェフ号の事件はいつ新聞に載ったのですか？

トーダシェフ号の事件は1976年の冬と春に新聞に掲載されました。

著者がこの物語を書くにあたり、何を参考にしたと言っていますか？

著者は「レッド・オクトーバー」を書くにあたり、主に3冊の書籍「シップズ＆アIRCRAFT FOR THE US FLEET」、「ガイド・トゥ・ソビエト・ネイビー」、「コンバット・フリート・オブ・ザ・ワールド」を参考にしました。

著者はどのようにして情報を得たと述べていますか？

著者は公に開かれている情報やゲーム「コールド・ハープーン」を参考にし、さらには保険業務を行う傍らの人々から情報を得たと述べています。

著者が次に書く予定の小説「パトリオット・ゲームズ」はどんな内容ですか？

「パトリオット・ゲームズ」はアイルランドのテロリズムをアメリカ人の視点から描いた物語で、テロリストの捕获や情報の重要性などがテーマとなっているそうです。

Outlines

00:00

🚀 1975年のリガの兵変

1975年11月8日にラトビアのリガで、アクロバット級ミサイルフリゲート「トーダシェフ」号で兵変が起こった。兵変は政治幹部であるヴァレリ・ミハイロヴィチ・ヴォヴキン大尉が主導し、船員の一部がロシアの革命記念日に酔っ払った上官の不注意を利用してスウェーデンへの逃亡を企てた。しかし、逃亡は失敗し、艦は追跡されて停止させられ、船員は連行された。

05:00

✈️ ソビエト海軍の対応と結果

兵変の艦を発見した後、ソビエト海軍は艦を停止させるよう指示したが、艦長のサアビリン大尉は従わずに西に進んだ。最終的にソビエト海軍は艦を損傷させるよう命じ、戦闘機が艦を攻撃し、スウェーデンの領海から30～50マイル離れた場所で停止させた。艦は引き取られ、修理後に船員は連行され、艦はシベリアに移されることになった。

10:03

📚 作家としての転機

1980年にinsurance businessを購入し、米海军研究所に参加した。そこでの経験と出会いが、作家としてのキャリアに大きな影響を与えた。特に、米海軍研究所の年次メンバー会議で知り合った人物から得たアドバイスとコメントが、後に小説の創作につながった。

15:06

📝 小説「レッド・オクトーバー」の創作

1982年8月に小説創作を開始し、同年10月には300ページの原稿を完成させ、1983年2月には723ページの原稿を完成させた。編集プロセスを経て、1984年10月に小説「レッド・オクトーバー」が出版され、好評を博した。特に、ロナルド・レーガン大統領の推薦を受け、ベストセラーになった。

20:07

🔍 研究と情報収集

小説「レッド・オクトーバー」の研究には、主に3冊の書籍を利用した。戦艦に関するデータや兵器システム、センサーの詳細な情報が記載されたこれらの書籍は、小説の内容を裏付けるための情報源となった。また、情報収集は創作の楽しさと重要性を強調した。

25:12

🛰️ 次なる小説「レッドストーム・ライジング」

次なる小説「レッドストーム・ライジング」の創作において、共同執筆者であるLarry Bondと協力し、研究を進めた。また、空軍戦闘機部隊、海軍のペリー級フリゲート、および陸軍のM1戦車での体験を経て、小説の内容を豊かにした。

30:12

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 イランterrorismと「パトリオット・ゲームズ」

現在執筆中の小説「パトリオット・ゲームズ」では、イランのテロリストから犠牲になったアメリカ人の視点や、アメリカ人の視点からテロリズムの問題を描いている。また、北アイルランドのRUCの警官との話から、テロリズムの根源とそれに伴う問題について学んだ。

35:13

📡 情報の重要性

情報はテロリズムに対する第一線の防御であり、アメリカの安全を守るために不可欠である。情報収集と分析がテロリストの阻止につながり、それが情報専門家の任務であると強調した。また、情報の開示と秘密保持のバランスが重要であると指摘した。

40:15

🚩 作家としての経験

作家としての経験を語り、特に米海軍やロイヤル海軍からの支持と認めをもらえたことを誇らしがっている。また、機密情報の扱いについても触れ、自分は機密情報を必要としない作家であり、倫理的に情報を扱うことを誓っていると述べた。

Keywords

💡Riga

rigaはラトビアの首都であり、ビデオ脚本で述べられている1985年11月8日に起こった事件の舞台です。この日、苏联海軍の巡洋艦がリガのドックに停泊しており、船員による叛乱が起こりました。このキーワードは、ビデオの物語の地理的背景を与え、歴史的な出来事の場所を示しています。

💡Soviet Union

ソビエト連邦は、ビデオ脚本で言及されている時代のスーパーパワーであり、その政治的・軍事的な影響力は物語の重要な部分を占めています。特に、1985年のリガでの事件はソビエト連邦の軍艦とその船員に起因するものです。このキーワードは、ビデオの歴史的文脈を理解する上で不可欠です。

💡Mutiny

叛乱は、ビデオ脚本の中心的な事件であり、苏联海軍の艦船の船員が行った行動を指します。彼らは上司の酔っ払いを利用して、スウェーデンへの逃亡を企てました。このキーワードは、ビデオの主題を理解するために、権力と反乱、自由への渇望などの概念に結び付けることができます。

💡Acrobat class FFG

アクロバット級FFGは、ビデオ脚本で登場する特定の苏联海軍の巡洋艦のクラスです。この軍艦は叛乱の舞台であり、物語の重要なプロパティです。このキーワードは、ビデオの物語に登場する軍事的な機器を示し、その時代の海軍戦力を象徴しています。

💡October Revolution

10月革命は、ビデオ脚本で言及されている苏联の重要な歴史的イベントです。この革命は、ソビエト連邦の誕生を意味し、ビデオの歴史的文脈に深く関係しています。このキーワードは、物語が起こる時代の政治的背景を理解する上で役立ちます。

💡Baltic Fleet

バルト艦隊は、ビデオ脚本で言及されている苏联海軍の主要な艦隊の一つです。叛乱の巡洋艦はこの艦隊に属しており、物語の重要な部分を占めています。このキーワードは、ビデオの軍事的構造を理解する上で役立ち、また、叛乱に対する対応をとる組織を示しています。

💡Gotland

ゴトランドはスウェーデンの島で、ビデオ脚本で叛乱船員が目指した場所です。この島は、叛乱者の逃亡計画の目標地として重要であり、物語の地理的背景を豊かにします。このキーワードは、叛乱者の意図と計画を理解する上で重要です。

💡USS

USSは「合衆国海軍船」（United States Ship）の頭文字であり、ビデオ脚本で言及されているアメリカ海軍の艦船を指します。このキーワードは、ビデオ内でアメリカ海軍とその艦船が登場する際に使用され、アメリカの軍事的な存在感を物語に導入します。

💡Naval Academy

海軍学院は、ビデオ脚本で言及されているアメリカ海軍の教育機関です。この学院は、海軍士官の養成に役立ち、ビデオの物語においては、海軍の歴史や伝統を象徴的な場所として紹介されています。このキーワードは、海軍の教育と訓練の重要性を物語に織り込むのに役立ちます。

💡Falkland Islands

フォークランド諸島は、ビデオ脚本で言及されている1982年の戦争の舞台であり、物語の歴史的文脈を提供します。この戦争は、大英帝国とアルゼンチンとの間で起こり、ビデオ内で現在の国際関係や軍事的緊張を背景にしています。このキーワードは、物語が起こる時代の国際情勢を理解する上で役立ちます。

Highlights

讨论了保险业务中的潜在受害者问题。

描述了1975年11月8日在拉脱维亚里加发生的一起不同寻常的事件。

提到了苏联庆祝十月革命的日子及其历史背景。

讲述了苏联导弹护卫舰'Acrobat'级在城市码头的事件。

揭示了舰上高级官员醉酒，部分船员企图叛变前往瑞典的情况。

描述了叛变领导者是船上的政委，以及他的动机和行动。

提到了一名水手试图向总部报告叛变的情况。

讲述了苏联海军对叛变事件的迟缓反应。

描述了叛变船只几乎成功逃脱，但最终因为一系列不幸事件而失败。

提到了苏联海军如何最终找到并迫使叛变船只返回。

讲述了叛变领导者在莫斯科接受审判并被处决的结局。

讨论了作者如何通过与海军军官的交流获得写作灵感。

描述了作者如何利用公开资料进行研究并撰写小说《红色十月》。

提到了作者与海军军官合作撰写《红色风暴》一书的过程。

讲述了作者如何通过亲身体验和研究来增强其写作的真实性。

讨论了作者对情报工作的看法，以及情报在反恐中的重要性。

提到了作者对军事秘密和情报使用的哲学思考。

讲述了作者如何通过逻辑推理而非泄露的机密信息来构建其作品中的情节。

Transcripts

does this thing go inside or outside

your jacket so we don't have these in

the insurance business great you let

everybody in yeah everyone's a potential

victim eight November where is it now

there it is

eight November 9th or 8th November 1975

the place is Riga Latvia and it so 200

hours and something very unusual is

about to happen the the date of 8

November is significant it comes after 7

November even in the Soviet Union and

that's the day on which they celebrate

the the October Revolution the reason of

course it's in November now is because

they switch calendars after the

Bolsheviks took over now the unusual

thing that's about to happen is that

there's a there's a missile frigate

Acrobat class FFG sitting at the city

dock names todashev oi the name means

one guard I believe or vigilant when

some lose them the the supposition is

that the senior officers aboard the ship

got since the previous day was the

Russian fourth of July got into their

celebrating just just a little bit too

heavily as Russians have been known to

do and were passed out drunk in their

staterooms and selected members of the

crew took advantage of this fact to

initiate what they hoped would be a trip

to Sweden now the mutiny oddly enough

was led by the the ship's political

officer those on palete that's sort of a

chaplain for atheists he

his name was was captain third-ranked or

a lieutenant commander Valeri

Mikhailovich wobbling as the chef's

political officer of course he's the

fellow who's supposed to make sure that

everybody aboard does what it says and

the little red book or whatever the hell

color book it is over there

unfortunately as the Marines of as the

Marines say this this guy was not

entirely with the program and he and he

one other junior officer and an unknown

number of petty officers lit up their

turbine engines slipped their mooring

lines and and slipped downriver they

almost made it they were they're

extremely unlucky the first thing that

went wrong for them was that one of the

one of the conscripts abour of course

then you know the Soviet Navy in the

Soviet Army don't really have career and

lists of people like we do which is one

of their probably a bigger disadvantage

to them and their than their inferior

hardware anyway one of the sailors

looked around and quite sensibly

realized that he didn't want any part of

this action so he jumped overboard and

swam to shore tried to flag down a car

but nobody would stop for him presumably

in the assumption he was just nother

drunken sailor finally he finds him he

finds a public phone drops his kopeck

calls into headquarters and says look

guys something really bad is going down

I can't tell you what it is over the

phone for crying out loud send a car out

to pick me up they hung up

walks all the way into Baltic Fleet

headquarters finds a duty officer says

look stood OSHA boy if you send a jeep

down to the city dock you're going to

find a 440 foot empty space where my

ship used to be and I thought that was

remarkable enough that sure enough they

sent a jeep down or the Soviet

equivalent thereof down to the City Dock

and there was a 40-foot 445 empty space

where the ship used to be and they

looked at each other and they said neat

chaebol and didn't do anything else

about it

by this time store OSHA boy is out an

air gun sound booking along at maybe 25

or 30 knots she her objective was a

Swedish island of Gotland in the Baltic

Sea a run of about 300 nautical miles

the Soviet Navy really just let things

Fester for a while until finally the

last piece of bad luck happened for

captain sobbing one of the one of the

officers aboard the ship hadn't

evidently got drunk enough recovered

consciousness got into the Radio Shack

and sent out on all ships broadcast in

the clear mutiny on storoe Savoy send

help that got their attention

commander Baltic Fleet got on the phone

to commander in chief soviet navy

admiral sergey yuryevitch gorchakov who

evidently was recently given sort of a

nun but dishonorable discharge from the

soviet navy at least the the adverts

that you know that the notice in Pravda

didn't say well done thou good and

faithful servant just Admiral Sir Navin

has the job now Gorn scoff probably told

the trainer Baltic Fleet rather

pointedly to get the ship back so an

all-out air and sea search was laid on

immediately they already had a a patrol

force sailing around in the Baltic and

some Verdi's were sent up if you're

looking for snow Savoy well of course

it's virtually a law of physics that

ships can't run from airplanes very well

they found the ship in very short order

and notified Baltic Fleet and then they

relayed a message from Baltic Fleet

roughly as follows

just bring the boat home guys and

everything is cool well

well captain Saab lien wasn't quite that

stupid he did not acknowledge the

broadcast and kept heading west

finally the order had to be given to to

disable the ship and fighter bombers

attached to the Soviet Navy were ordered

in to just just the damage to ship

enough the stopper it's an expensive

thing to put in the body and fender shot

so unfortunately for the Russians

however the lead ship in the surface

pursuit force was another kravec yeah

first thing that happened is that they

blast the tail out of the wrong ship

well well they finally got their act

together they Stewart they scored ahead

on Star Ocean voice turn disabling the

rudder forcing the ship to stop 30 to 50

miles outside of Swedish territorial

water the surface pursuit force caught

up they took everybody officer Oh Savoy

and towed the ship back to port for

repairs soon thereafter the entire ship

was sent all the way around the world to

Siberia the ship is now based at

Vladivostok and the maritime province

presumably they did this on the

assumption that's that the ship itself

would be sort of a psychological

contaminant for the rest of Baltic Fleet

yeah I don't really think of the

Russians as being that spiritual it's

captain Saab lien of course was taken to

Moscow where the following spring he was

given a fair trial and a fair hanging in

all fairness to the Russians mutiny is a

crime that navies historically regard as

being fairly serious and the reason we

have the Naval Academy down in Annapolis

is because of a certain irregularity and

procedures aboard a United States brig

named the summer's in 1843 well all this

information early some of those

information hit the papers in the in the

winter and spring of 1976 it was a slow

developing news story for a number of

reasons the for one thing reporters are

basically incompetent but a for another

thing it was about a mutiny onboard a

Soviet ship but the you're supposed to

live there too of it but I read in the

Washington Post I read that every day so

I can get the far side

and I thought gee that's an interesting

story and one of the nice to sort of

file that one away which is basically

what I did the and it just sort of sat

there and gathered dust there's a lot of

dusty things back here for the next four

years and in 1980 my life took a fairly

major turn for the further the one thing

is my wife and I purchased the insurance

business which we still continue to

operate actual I'm going to be in there

two more I couldn't get out of it and I

also joined the United States Naval

Institute in April of 1980 I just took

an afternoon off from the office and I

went up to Annapolis to go to their

annual members meeting or as I call it a

love-in

and and what happens there is they give

out awards and things in it but but

mainly what happens is you have a lot of

naval officers and their wives or

essentially naval officers too and you

get down to it

talking back and forth with each other

about how important the Navy is and this

is like listening to a discussion of gun

control with this trap and skeet club

you know it's so you have people trying

to disagree with each other so that they

can subsequently argue on the things

they already agree on and struck me as a

fairly pointless undertaking and I wrote

sent a letter to the Institute the

following September just to describe the

fact that I thought this was a fairly

pointless undertaking well a week later

I got a check for $35 and saul of tarsus

was not more surprised when he was

knocked off of and 1/2 his ass than I

was by that check somebody actually paid

me for writing something insurance

companies don't do that

they they respect my letters but they

don't pay for them and I thought that

was that was so remarkable even cashed

the check for another year and the the

following year I just I came up with a

really wild idea as for a basing system

for the MX missile so matter fact it was

almost as crazy as what the Pentagon

came up with and I shot that and I shot

that into the Institute and they liked

it and said we'll rewrite and send it

back and along the way I made the

acquaintance of a naval officer working

in the OSD who gave me some good advice

and a couple of interesting comments and

he was a nice enough guy about it that I

invited him down to the office for lunch

just to sort of thank him

this was the Monday after Argentina sees

the Falkland Islands that's that this is

important keep track of that so what

happened that Monday is is this this

fellow spent ten minutes telling me how

the Brits were to take their rocks back

and he turned out to be right in just

about every detail immensely pay him for

it right and then he spent about an hour

giving me see stories now of course if

you're in the Navy you don't tell C

stories they should be over to the

marine corps so so what I really learned

was you know what kind of a person is it

who drives submarines we're living it's

something I didn't know I always knew

that looking up the technical stuff for

Red October to be fairly easy what I did

not know is what's what a person it is

who goes to sea in a ship that's

supposed to sink

because that would bother me you know

and what I found out was that the

submarine drivers are a lot like fighter

pilots they wake up in the morning and

adjust their halos and when they go to

sea they don't really expect so much to

walk on water as they expect the Seas

the part in front of them so with us new

and interesting knowledge I decided well

by God

I've writing a book as something I

wanted to do since high school and I'm

going to say I'm just going to sit down

and do it I really got rolling I guess

in August of 82 and by October 28th I

had maybe 300 pages of manuscript done

so October 28th I remember the day

because somebody ensured an all-state

whomped my car I went up to Annapolis

and I had lunch at Riordan saloon with a

guy named Marty Callahan he's the fellow

who who edited my MX article and I told

him I was fiddling with a novel and I

wanted a professional look at what I had

done to tell me he was any good so he

said sure he'll come he'd come down and

look at it which he did on Veterans Day

November 11th it's not a holiday here

it's a federal agency in the left but

anyway you read two chapters and he said

you know this isn't bad when you

finished the book and I said okay and so

I restarted from page one I ultimately

finished a manuscript on February 27th

of 83 about three or four months later

it's not it wasn't as hard as you think

for one thing there was an NFL player

strike and

and my wife was pregnant so my nights my

weekends so my nights and my weekends

were fairly free

February 28th 83 I walked into the

Institute after making a business call

handed him seven hundred and twenty

three pages of manuscript got in the car

and drove home what followed was

probably the most difficult couple of

weeks of I've had in the last ten years

because I didn't really know if they

were going to like it or not did you one

of the things you don't have as a writer

one of the things no writer can really

do is evaluate his own stuff I can't and

so I waited three anxious weeks for him

to tell me that they had taken by seven

hundred and twenty three pages of

manuscript and stamped it onto a roll

along in a small room in fact a lovely

young lady Debbie no she just got Mary's

wsd s now the acquisitions and rights

editor they're all the same thing if

they're all tall they're all skinny

they're all gorgeous it's disgusting

they're all married that's the

disgusting part said that she really

liked it and could I rewrite the whole

thing the original manuscript was farmed

out to to to submarine officers what I'm

just made captain the other ones a

commander now who read read the thing

over for technical material and it turns

out I made a lot of stupid little

mistakes but the big stuff held together

fairly well unfortunately one of the

officers told the Institute the book

should not be published for reasons of

security so I invited them down to the

office and I showed him where I got all

my information I'll be showing I'll whip

that out a little while and I finally

persuaded him that that I got all my

information innocently the one thing

that was really worked up about was

something called crazy Ivan now for

those of you who don't know what crazy

Ivan means you know the Russians are a

very paranoid xenophobic Bunch

and for some reason their ships and

submarines when they're out it when

they're out at sea when was

occasions when they actually sail they

have this nasty suspicion that the

United States Navy is submarines are

tracking them now in fact when the US

Navy submarines are out at sea they're

conducting oceanographic research which

means of course are you don't you

believe a boat which means there's

another count the whales for Greenpeace

but because the Russians are so paranoid

they've developed the sort of a stylized

turn their version of the Williamson

turn in which they reverse course and

race back on a reciprocal heading and

and this in the US Navy when those rare

occasions when a submarine is in the

general vicinity of a Russian sub calls

the crazy Ivan turned well the captain

was a little annoyed that I knew what

that was and I told him that we have a

nuclear power plant down where I live

and so my clients work a teakettle and

one of them it just honestly couldn't

even tell you which one told me is

because I have insurance for maybe seven

or eight of them and just told me what

crazy Ivan was I just sort of file it

away and used it well finally I

convinced him that I got everything

innocently that nobody had burned

information to me but but finally I said

look if there's anything in the book

that should be taken out for reasons of

security even though I acquired all the

information innocently tell me what it

is and it's going so he turns around

looks at me says I'm not going to tell

you what it is you dumbass it's

classified

now I asked you what am I supposed to do

I mean those classification even even

overcome being honorable answer yes

anyway he was through his his objection

the book went through the editing

process the editing process is rather

like being in a dentist's chair for

three months an editor is someone it's

like the doctor you take your kid to the

first checkup and he says well Tom he's

a perfectly good boy but he'd be so much

better off without his left arm my

editor was a gal named Connie Buchanan

tall skinny and gorgeous her Hut I'm not

kidding her husband was an all-american

lacrosse player at Princeton still plays

club lacrosse so I couldn't get too

snotty with her the other problem was

she was 4.0 Princeton and a Marshall

scholar to Oxford now even for a guy

went to a JV school that's Jesuit for

you people who don't know that's kind of

intimidating so the editing process is

actually kind of stone age you know they

take pencils and they make marginal

comments and deletions and crap and you

get fed up with it after a while I mean

it's just like somebody putting tattoos

on your baby

so so I made my own little cottage at

GDC god damn it Connie oddly enough we

know we finished the editing process

lasted almost three months and and we

actually ended up good friends which is

fairly remarkable in the meantime I got

my first look at a US Navy submarine USS

well I've never been aboard one before

not a nuke anyway and the book finally

came out in October of of 84 two years

ago two years and two weeks could be

exactly and it looked like the book was

going to do fairly well for us the

average first novel sells maybe five or

six thousand copies in hardcover and it

looked as though Red October was going

to peek out at something like fifty

thousand when something kind of

unexpected happened there's a gentleman

on the Washington Times not the Post The

Times the Muny one named Jerry O'Leary

he's a retired colonel of the United

States Marine Corps who belongs to the

Institute got the book read it liked it

and fortunately he was too cheap to buy

one for his friend

his friend is the American ambassador to

Argentina Frank were teased well he

found out a certain lady was heading

down there and he asked if she'd take a

book down with her and hand it to him

she said sure well it's a long flight

from Dulles to Buenos Aires and she read

the book liked it came back bought a

case twenty-eight copy she's my number

one fan in that respect

one of which found its way under the

tree of President Reagan well the

president I guess it was a nice quiet

Christmas in the White House the

president read the book in three days

liked it and was kind enough to tell

Time magazine that throw all those cheap

people out there that got the paperback

fork for kids

you've noticed the comment the perfect

you are in Ronald Reagan well that's how

that happened immediately after that the

hardcover jumped into the Times list the

hardcover was there for 29 weeks the

paperback was one for quite some time

and just popped back because the Red

Storm and also the president was kind

enough to invite my wife and me to the

White House where where the first time

we met him in the Oval Office and the

next week we were there for the arrival

ceremony in the state dinner for his

Excellency raúl Alfonsin the president

of the Argentine Republic now take note

of the fact that the the process of

getting the book started began with a

discussion of the Falkland Islands war

the Brits and the ER geez the book gets

to the president because the right lady

happens to be flying to Argentina and

two of the three times we go to the

White House it's also to meet the

President of Argentina and people wonder

why the Irish are superstitious

technically you know the book was

actually quite easy to do my sources

well let me dummy I had one piece of

help from a federal employee as matter

fact a person who worked in this very

place I don't know which building goes

around to this complex somewhere for

whom I have insurance he called me at

exactly the right time makes you believe

in fate sick Volvo a poor cos as Virgil

used to say used to say in the Indian I

needed to know something in Russian so

he called me he called me up at exactly

every time he has a question of an

insurance question and we mean I got

that out of the way real quick I'm

actually fairly proficient editor I used

to be and I said you speak Russian

silence

I'm talking five seconds and nothing

would electronic noise on that telephone

wire and finally he couldn't stand it

anymore he said why do you ask and I

said well I need to know how to say

something in Russian I have a I'm

writing he knew I was fiddling around

with a book and I said I need to know

how to say Red October in Russian is it

kasnia cobbler or kasnia ocular silence

finally I guess I can tell you that it's

Krasny that's the only assistance I had

from anybody in the intelligence

community and I hope you break any rules

to do that that's good

he just got promoted to but the

principle source is for my information

were three books in a war game the books

are ships and aircraft for the US fleet

guide to the Soviet Navy combat fleets

the world all naval Naval Institute

press publication is kind of incestuous

and hit this is this is the main source

of numbers right here it's a war game as

cold harpoon by Larry Bond I met Larry

in 82 I bought this this was advertised

in Proceedings and I figured for $9.95

you couldn't go too far wrong even when

I was poor so I got to know Larry fairly

well he's my son's Godfather and this I

ripped it up to put it in a ring binder

so it's easier for me to use but what it

essentially is is we have two books here

this is book one you can see how thick

and hard to read it is and this is just

fundamentals on how on the game

mechanics and therefore the mechanics of

house ships and weapons operate it

describes little things like convergent

zone something about a half hour I

figure those out and really just a

primer a primer on one house ships and

aircraft function I mean how they do

their thing mechanically also what

happens when weapons hit them book -

excuse me for a moment it's divided into

the two parts part one that's 1 - Part 1

lists most of the important ships in the

world let's see

let's pick a name somebody pick a ship

come on tell me pick a ship coral Singh

okay she's in here

that's a carrier CG 42 I believe he just

settle for Midway sisters that's well

sister type C V number in class to

Dayton service 1945 speed 33 knots

displacement standard displacement 51

thousand tons propulsion steam crew four

thousand five hundred ninety-one total

weapons mounts 11 that's three NATO sea

sparrows rim seven h6 three mark fifty

six mark fifteen phalanx a sea whist I

got one of those on my time makes a neat

sound and of course a bunch of airplanes

and things range roughly 18,000 miles at

12 knots this is the equivalent of five

thousand dollars worth of reference

books okay for 995 the price is $11 now

with inflation that's the ship and

aircraft portion now the actual weapons

and sensor portion let's say

air-to-surface ordinance USA harm that's

the high speed and irradiation missile

effective range according to this 10

miles a PK of point 85 a weapon warhead

of 70 70 kilograms

14 damage points that's the v8 a ship

with it instead of a radar which will

prevent kilograms of explosives probably

do a job on a radar antenna right and

hanging weight on the aircraft for 354

kilograms so and this is this is all

this is all public stuff I can be sure

of that because Larry is a naval officer

in the Naval Reserve with 1630

designator and if he was burning

classified information to anybody he'd

be in the gravel business now right

keeping Pollard company so this is the

sort of stuff that's out in the open and

all I did was take the information in

that book and abstract it and just

essentially use that as a database while

I was doing the hard part the hard part

is taking 700 pages of blank paper and

filling them up with words

era makes a big deal about the research

research is not only the easy part it's

the fun part with Red Storm rising which

began for those of you read the book I

mean in the beginning it tells how all

that happened Larry was down at my house

for Tommy's first birthday party and

said he was fiddling with an idea and we

just kicked some ideas back and forth

finally we shook hands when they all

said hell why don't we write a book it's

turned out alright in the research for

Red Storm I got down to watch a an Air

Force fighters Fighter Squadron go

through its paces with a scramble and

everything the Navy let me spend spend a

week on USS Gallery FFG 26a an F F g7

perry-class frigate that's an awful lot

of fun a long time between beers though

the army let me go up to Aberdeen Drive

and fire an m1 tank where's the state

trooper when you really want

the book I'm working on now Patriot

Games I had two weeks over in England

dirty jobs only other do it and a couple

weeks ago I was at FBI training center

at Quantico I watched the hostage rescue

team go through their paces the

interesting thing about that by the way

is that before the buck revell the

executive assistant director

investigations FBI gave the brief there

were some folks who over from Italy who

were also there for the demo and he said

that the the difference tween the FBI

HRT and Delta Force is that FBI are

they're cops

they're designed to use minimum

necessary force preserve evidence if

possible arrest the perpetrators whereas

Delta fortress goes in romping and

stomping and kills everything in sight

then we saw the demo then we saw the HRT

do through the demo and the firing they

have a hostage room with two live human

beings volunteers the idiots one of whom

had a target here and a target here

sitting on a couch he's the guy who

grades the exercise if you kill him you

got to know the good guys

blow the door come in firing live rounds

I'm watching this from a scaffolding

overhead firing live rounds pop all the

targets twice rescue the good guys and

the exercise is complete first of all

the guy in the couch is a much higher

coefficient of trust in his fellow man

than I ever will

secondly if that's minimum force I can

only conclude that the Delta guys use

nukes and then sift the ashes and then

just sift the ashes for the good guys

the book I'm working on right now is

called Patriot Games and it's those of

you who read Red October to take a close

look at chapter four you'll get a feel

for what it's about it's Irish terrorism

from from the victims perspective and

also from an American perspective which

is kind of unhappy business is one of

the things I've learned lately I had a

fella in my house last Thursday night

who's over in the u k-- in the u.s.

sponsored by u.s. ia2 to get the word

out on what's really happening over

there his name is Colin Ian Gardner and

he's the chief superintendent with L

division of the RUC the rural Elster

Constabulary that's the cops in Northern

Ireland he's been shot in the back with

an American m60 machine gun that was

purloined from a US National Guard

Armory which is not something for

Americans to feel happy about he's lost

a lot of troops the bad guys over there

may have red eye missiles now just

making the helicopter drivers little

nervous and one of the things I'm trying

to figure out now is how the situation

got to where it is and how it is we've

been so lucky that it hasn't happened

here well I'll tell you and I'm going to

try to be a little serious for the

moment just how lucky we've been in the

United States with terrorism the the

problems in Northern Ireland go back to

the modern problems began in 1922 when

the Brits established the Stormont

Parliament which took care of local

government local taxation the police the

courts and all that stuff essentially

what happened was Ulster is a state in

the same sense of Maryland or

Pennsylvania or Alabama is a state

within the within the UK now but the UK

doesn't have a federal government in the

same sense that we do they do not have a

written constitution they don't have an

FBI they don't have a Department of

Justice the thing just sort of ever

really needed it because the country has

always been

a fairly unitary basis well in nineteen

in the 1960s of course we had all the

civil rights activity in the United

States and we know we all remember y'all

remember that pretty well from watching

the huntley-brinkley half-hour news show

and the people in Northern Ireland the

Catholic community sit watch the same TV

coverage and said hey you know we got

the same problems with the black folks

down in Alabama got and why don't we

demonstrate to so what began in 1965

Northern Ireland was for all practical

purposes civil rights demonstrations

were the same objective that people want

an economic equality they wanted the

right to vote they wanted they want to

access the decent housing sounds pretty

familiar doesn't it the other thing that

sounds familiar is the local cops the

are you say and and and the local powers

that be in the Protestant community

didn't want to share what they had with

the Catholics and so the civil rights

demonstrations had the same thing happen

over there that happened over here the

demonstrators got beat up real bad

sometimes the cops assisted sometimes it

just acquiesced stood by and cheered on

the bad guys now when that happened here

when bull Connor's got a little bit out

of control and sell them out of Alabama

and when Goodman Chaney and Schwerner

were murdered by the Ku Klux Klan in

Mississippi what happened somebody in

Washington by the name of Hoover who

might not have been the nicest kind of

row but it was one hell of a good cup

got together with the Attorney General

and said we got to do something about

this they had the authority under

constitutional and statutory law to send

people down there and go to go to local

cops and say you guys aren't doing your

job professionally and we're going to

show you how to do this and we when we

leave you're going to do it the way we

did they solved the Goodman Chaney

Schwerner murder case they put got Bull

Connor under control

they reestablished the rule of law

that's because we got an FBI we got a

written constitution we have a

Department of Justice we have civil

rights laws

the Brits didn't have that ability

things were out of control over there

because the RUC wasn't doing its job

right there are now it's a good police

force now it's too late now

the only alternative the Brits had was

sending the army British Army is a good

army they got good officers they got

good NCOs they got good training they're

good folks they're not Gers but they're

not cops either

and cops and soldiers don't mix cops

keep the peace armed troops make the

peace by killing everyone who's not

peaceful ok so if anybody ever asked you

if we should get the the Navy and the

Army and the Marine Corps involved in

stopping the drug business remind them

what happened to the British Army in

Northern Ireland a they failed be they

made things worse see it probably wasn't

very good for the troops either what's

happening over there now is pretty grim

we've got 500 or so members of the pyro

the Provisional IRA they're committed

marxist-leninist s-- and if they win

they're going to convert Ireland to

another Cuba as a as someone who likes

to drink Irish whiskey I don't I mean

every time the Communists take over a

country Cuba it was importing tobacco a

couple years ago to make cigars right I

don't want to see Ireland having to

import whiskey they're not you know

they're not really a very nice folks

when I was when I was over there in the

end of April beginning of May there was

a trial in an Old Bailey number two for

the four folks that set the bomb off in

the Brighton hotel that almost bagged

Maggie Thatcher they didn't know she was

going to be there but they wouldn't mind

it either

they looked very ordinary you expect

people like that to have horns and Tails

particularly since that they were the

c-13 the any Terra branch of the

Metropolitan Police bagged them just

when they were getting ready to embark

on a project that was going to explode a

bomb a day for a month all over England

in various hotels trying to hit the

tourist trade you expect him to have

horns and Tails actually they look very

ordinary one of the girls was cute

enough that if I were of college age I

might have asked her out for a date her

idea however a political expression is

to blow people up that she doesn't even

know and unfortunately it looks like

that's the common thing in the world

right now wars are just too expensive in

monetary and monetary terms in terms of

the damage they do to the country that

starts the war I mean it's a matter of

history in the 20th century almost every

time a country starts a war losses so

you asked Hitler so but on the other

hand terrorism you can deny you had any

part of it as the as the Syrians are

doing right now and you can spit but if

it works you can still get your message

across and that's the one you know

that's that's an unhappy fact it's going

on right now

I'm trying to bring out in Patriot Games

is the primary defense against terrorism

people like you the namely games

intelligence you know we've got the FBI

hostage rescue team they've never

rescued a hostage they make a hell of a

good SWAT team we've got the deltas if

we if it's outside the country they're

all ready to go but they don't know

where to go

somebody has to tell them what's going

on somebody has to tell them where to go

do their thing and it's people in the

intelligence community who do that you

people are the first line of defense of

the United States of America and if you

have trouble explaining that to to your

family get them a book one the Battle of

Midway where people in the in the crypto

business if they didn't win the war for

us they probably shortened it about four

years and that's how important you are

if we can develop information on the

terrorists we can stop them we don't

even be able to kill them or if the FBI

has its way you put them in front of a

jury convicted instead of the prison

forever so you can take you know just to

use them like critters in a zoo

interestingly enough that guy from the

Ru sees against capital punishment he

says it only it only creates martyrs and

he'd rather keep them in cages as

trophies and say

see him that's a terrorist and we're not

even you know he may die of old age or

cancer or something but we're not going

to kill him to make him a martyr but

like with everything else what it's all

about is information when when Heinz

Guderian invented the Panzer Division in

1932 the first thing he put together was

the Radio Network so information would

come in from the field to the commander

up from the commander to the regiment's

to tell them what to do and that's the

importance of you guys so at this point

when I run out of things to say we open

the floor for questions and the last

time I was here speaking in this

auditorium I had a hell of a time

getting good questions now when I spoke

at CIA on the other hand I had a great

time so let's clear up a philosophical

point at CIA when they introduced me

they said the talk was unclassified

which of course it is and they said if

you ask questions please keep questions

on classified also well after I got home

I started thinking about that I'm you

know I went to Loyola College up in

Baltimore I have a judge would exposure

to philosophy and logic and everything I

have concluded that there is no such

thing as an unclassified question there

can be a classified answer but there's

no such thing as a classified question

so please ask away all my information on

the stealth fighter came from four

paragraphs of copy in the media the to

two paragraphs in the Baltimore news

American paragraph in into one paragraph

in two separate articles of Air Force

magazine in which they said that there

probably is a stealth type aircraft and

since that they can create the thing to

put on a c5 out of Burbank and take it

up take it over the hills to Nellis that

told me it's probably a fighter okay so

now what we have is a stealth aircraft a

fighter sighs what are you gonna use it

for obviously you're going to use it for

something that's too dangerous for other

airplanes to do weasel it's a fighter

plane therefore it's it's going to have

some air-to-ground capability and some

air to air capability if nothing else

you not gonna put an Air Force pilot in

a fire they can't shoot something right

I mean otherwise they take the scarfing

goggles away so so based on that

information stab Strack did it okay what

what what is the most dangerous mission

in the airforce right now it's weasel

the guy who goes looking for Sam sites

to take em out I mean this is like right

you know trying to kiss a porcupine so

so I just took it from there and I said

well if it'll work against the Sam radar

what what what what is a real Air Force

mission the Air Force likes to drama

they like the stuff that you make a

movie out of five years later so let's

try something that really stop the

Russians hard at first get the air

superiority if they want so I put

operation Dream Land together based on

just my concept of what a stealth

aircraft would be used for whether or

not I'm right I don't know but I can

tell you this somebody involved somebody

who consults to a certain aerospace

company which of course you couldn't

tell me but it was Lockheed he didn't

tell me that but I sort of figured it

out

got an early copy of that chapter the

frisbees of dreamland

and ultimately even made 60 Xerox copies

that were passed out at that aerospace

company and that tells me something if

the project goes white I loved I just

hope they call up the frisbee

you know that's my that would be tom

clancy's mark on history we call that

airplane which probably isn't really the

f19 but whatever it is call it the

frisbee

not that stupid okay that's only the

last ten years this place admits it

exists right no there's there's

obviously no NSA is involved in signal

intelligence of one kind or another and

I also figured you know from just for my

reading of of naval history the Battle

of Midway and all that I realized that

the most important thing in a military

environment is tactical intelligence

since and and being able to read the

other guy's mail which is why I sit on

TV recently that when that Yankee went

down I have this evil impulse every

morning when I start working my office

to call Woods Hole Massachusetts and

find out dr. Ballard's in his office

because we didn't develop that

technology look at the Titanic

and maybe he's going to send Jason jr.

swimming inside there's a nice big hole

in her hole now that Yankee boat that

went down and just send Jason jr.

swimming down that hole looking for the

Crypt or maybe get a hold of a code

machine and drag it out I mean I

realized nobody here really thinks in

those terms but I do as an author so the

first thing you take off take off that

Russian submarine would be the crypto

gear right you guys aren't even nod

that's good

your security officer ought to be proud

of you

that's what I'd take off first I think

that's probably more important than new

so we know how to make news but you know

my information on NSA comes exclusively

from from a few things I read I've got

the biography of Friedman the guy they

named this hall after and a few other

things so it's just it really just a

matter using your head everybody think

there's so much talk around after Red

October came out that that ever people

are leaking information to me why can't

they just give me credit for being smart

it's not that hard to figure out and it

shouldn't be because what's the mission

of the US military with our primary

mission today where the rubber meets the

road ste turns it's keeping a war from

happening if a war happens somebody

screwed up

we can't deter the Russians if they

don't know anything about us they got to

have something to be afraid of think

about it if our nuclear weapons were a

secret why would they not start a war

so the problem you got to draw and this

is in a book by jasper holmes called

double edged secrets examines this issue

rather closely is where do you draw the

line between the importance of a source

of information and the importance of

making use out of it if something is so

important you can't use it

it's not even intelligence it's just a

piece of data that's in somebody's file

that's something and this is something

you know another issue we're going to be

examining and Patriot games from both

sides that if if you're if you're too

scared to use a piece of information for

fear of exposing your source you might

as well not have the source so you know

the question and the same it's the same

thing with military secrets and military

performance where do you draw the line

the lines got to be there somewhere but

you have to we got to expose a certain

amount of information to the Russians if

deterrence is going to work now or where

you draw the line I leave to the

professionals in this audience but you

can't make everything secret

otherwise you may have you may boomerang

on yourself

Kayson we it was written up that way was

because of the the perspective from

which the book was written really the

perspective the Russian perspective was

from Alexey of his point of view he was

commanding exclusively commanding

Russian Russian troops and his main

concern was with the performance of

Russian troops as a practical matter I

really like to know just how much

political reliability the Soviets tagged

on there their East Bloc allies I mean

we know today is it is the 30th

anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution

I mean they were shooting back and forth

at each other okay

I think the Soviets trust the Hungarians

it's for damn sure they don't trust the

Germans you know the you know the

Russian German semi-finals been going on

for quite a while you think they trust

the poles uh you know drover trust in

trust in the soviet union is something

about as rare as beef so whether or not

they use them i don't know i would i

tend to say they try to probably

minimize their use just by virtue of the

fact that the soviets are simply not

trusting people and all of their East

Bloc allies have rebelled against them

at one time or another the Czechs have

the Hungarians have the Germans have the

poles have you trust people like that to

fight for you it's something you want to

think about once or twice

the US Navy and the Royal Navy have

effectively adopted me last last Tuesday

I was down I was down at Norfolk and I

gave the Trafalgar night speech to the

Royal Navy community is the program from

last week it's good speech - I that

afternoon Admiral McCauley common have

sir Flint invited me into his office and

I asked if I heard battleship I was in

town he says you want to go see her

let's go that's been two hours crawling

around the battle wagon so yeah they

like me both the US Navy and the Royal

Navy there they really made me part of

the family I'm very very proud of that

well I would not go to that point if

somebody gave me class by date I'd

probably call the FBI at the very least

at the very least I'd burn it you know I

went to a Jesuit school they make you

take a course in ethics that's it's

wrong okay

I'm not a reporter for God's sake

I don't look I don't need classified

information other reporters always screw

it up anyway here's here's an example

those classified thing I've ever seen on

the news last was almost a year ago I

guess it was a front page thing a front

page here in the Washington Post is

about a British security officer he

worked at the Cheltenham the only

British counterpart for you guys who was

writing a book about how screwed up the

security was there and the third

paragraph in the story said that

security was particularly lacks on a

joint us-uk program to track Soviet

boomers a Soviet missile submarines from

their daily radio transmissions to base

then of course he went done the story

went on to something else I'm thinking

Soviet boomers make daily radio

transmissions to base what our guys go

out there even the Pentagon doesn't know

where they are they're somewhere in this

great big area about the size of state

of Georgia which moves that the whole

area moves nobody wants to know where

they are that's the whole point I think

if the Soviets have them you know et

phone home every day so I know a guy in

that business and I had as luck would

have it I had to give him a call anyway

about something and I told this thing in

the post and he said can you say that

again repeated the whole thing that was

in the paper huh yeah what day what page

which told me a lot right there

I said yeah come on nobody's that dumb I

mean nobody would have a missile

submarine a broadcast every day they

said well just one mean and consider

that different people have different

ideas about the way you do things but

you know the reporter burned that

information did not even know its

significance that's probably the most

secret thing I've ever read

and of course was page when the

Washington Post was in the open up but

now using classified information

no way

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