Indigenous perspectives on invasive species

Summary

In this presentation, Frank Mighty's discusses the Indigenous perspective on invasive species, emphasizing the importance of traditional knowledge and storytelling. He highlights the Anishinaabe view that all species have a purpose and value, and stresses the need for coexistence rather than eradication. Mighty's also addresses the impact of colonial practices on the environment and calls for a more inclusive approach to conservation that respects Indigenous rights and knowledge.

Takeaways

• 🌿 The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding invasive species from an Indigenous perspective, highlighting a shift from Western science to Indigenous knowledge systems.
• 🦅 The speaker introduces himself with his Indigenous name, Ginyu, which means 'golden eagle', and discusses his role in watching over the land and waters, reflecting the Indigenous view of humans as caretakers of the Earth.
• 📚 Historical context is provided, noting that it was once illegal for Indigenous people to share their knowledge on conservation and ecological management, showing the significance of the current dialogue.
• 🏡 The speaker acknowledges the territory he is on, recognizing the Chippewas and Mississaugas of the Williams Treaty, demonstrating respect for Indigenous territories and treaties.
• ❄️ The winter season is highlighted as a time for storytelling in Indigenous cultures, with certain stories reserved for winter when animals and spirits are believed to be less active.
• 🌱 The concept of 'All My Relations' is introduced, illustrating the Indigenous belief in a profound spiritual connection to the Earth and all living things, including plants, animals, and humans.
• 💧 The principle of 'natural law' is explained, where everything in nature follows absolute laws that do not compromise, emphasizing the importance of living in harmony with nature's rules.
• 🤝 The 'law of mutual support' is discussed, suggesting that humans and nature should work together for balance, which contrasts with the Western approach to managing invasive species.
• 🌊 The speaker discusses the Anishinaabe views on species movement, seeing it as natural and purposeful, and questions the Western approach to labeling some species as invasive without understanding their purpose.
• 🌾 Examples are given of how Indigenous people consider every species valuable, such as exploring if Phragmites (an invasive species) could be used as food or fuel, showing a different approach to coexistence with nature.

Q & A

What is the significance of the winter season in traditional indigenous storytelling?

In the winter, when there is deep snow on the ground, animals are hibernating and spirits are sleeping, making it a safe time to share certain stories that should not be heard by them. This is a time when indigenous people traditionally share knowledge and stories with the younger generations.

What does the indigenous name 'Ginyu' mean and how does it relate to the speaker's role?

The indigenous name 'Ginyu' means 'golden eagle'. The speaker has been asked to watch over the lands and waters, which reflects the eagle's role as a protector and observer from above.

How does the speaker describe the relationship between indigenous people and the natural world?

Indigenous people are described as caretakers of the earth with a profound spiritual connection to all living things. They practice humility and reciprocity, taking only what they need and using resources carefully to ensure the well-being of future generations.

What is the 'Law of Mutual Support' as mentioned in the script?

The 'Law of Mutual Support' is the idea that people living on the land, both indigenous and non-indigenous, should work together with the natural world and not against it. It emphasizes the importance of cooperation and balance within the ecosystem.

How does the speaker view invasive species from an indigenous perspective?

From an indigenous perspective, every species has value and a purpose. The speaker suggests that it's important to understand why a species has migrated to an area and how humans can coexist with it, rather than focusing solely on eradication.

What is the significance of the Royal Proclamation of 1763 in the context of the script?

The Royal Proclamation of 1763 is seen as a turning point that disrupted the harmony between indigenous people and non-indigenous people, as well as the balance with the environment. It marked the beginning of problems for both indigenous communities and ecological integrity.

Why does the speaker believe that traditional indigenous practices were stopped?

Traditional indigenous practices were stopped because they were deemed illegal by the Canadian government starting from 1978. These practices included cultural burning and ecological monitoring, which were essential for maintaining the balance within the ecosystem.

What role does enforcement play in the management of invasive species according to the speaker?

Enforcement plays a crucial role in managing invasive species. The speaker points out that there is a lack of implementation and enforcement of prescribed management plans, which leads to improper restoration techniques and continued environmental degradation.

How does the speaker suggest that indigenous and non-indigenous people can work together on conservation?

The speaker suggests creating an indigenous engagement strategy that involves all relevant indigenous communities and their treaty rights. It's important to have equal participation and to incorporate both indigenous knowledge and western science in conservation efforts.

What is the importance of understanding treaty rights in the context of environmental conservation?

Understanding treaty rights is essential for environmental conservation because it acknowledges the indigenous people's rights to protect and manage their territories. This includes protecting waterways and culturally significant forest stands, which are often overlooked by non-indigenous people.

What personal realization prompted the speaker to embrace their indigenous knowledge and share it with others?

The speaker's realization came when they started having children and understood the need to show them both sides of the knowledge system. They also overcame the fear of sharing their culture and values, which was previously discouraged and could have led to prosecution.

Outlines

00:00

🌏 Indigenous Perspectives on Invasive Species

The speaker, Frank Mighty, introduces the topic of indigenous perspectives on invasive species. He emphasizes the importance of viewing these species through an indigenous lens rather than a purely western scientific one. He shares his personal journey of integrating his indigenous knowledge with his scientific background. Frank discusses the historical context, noting that it was once illegal for him to share indigenous knowledge on conservation. He introduces himself with his indigenous name, Ginyu, which means 'golden eagle,' and explains his role in his community, the Skijamang or Curve Lake First Nation. He acknowledges the land he is on and the importance of storytelling in indigenous culture, particularly during winter months as a means to pass on teachings to younger generations.

05:01

📚 Traditional Teachings and Forgotten Laws

Frank Mighty discusses the indigenous concept of 'All My Relations,' which highlights the interconnectedness of all living beings and the responsibility to care for the environment. He contrasts this with the western approach to conservation and ecological management, which often overlooks these traditional teachings. He introduces the 'forgotten laws of governance,' which were disrupted by the signing of the Royal Proclamation in 1763. These laws include the principles of humility, reciprocity, and the understanding that humans are part of a larger natural family. Frank also talks about the Anishinaabe views on species movement and migration, emphasizing the idea that every species has a purpose and a place in the ecosystem.

10:01

🌱 Coexistence with Invasive Species

The speaker explores the idea of coexistence with invasive species from an indigenous perspective, challenging the western approach of eradication. He discusses the belief that every species has value and can be used in harmony with the ecosystem. Frank shares a personal anecdote about attempting to use phragmites as a food source, highlighting the indigenous approach to finding value in all species. He also suggests considering alternative uses for invasive species, such as fuel sources, and criticizes the colonial mindset that has led to environmental degradation. The speaker calls for a shift in perspective to one that includes indigenous knowledge and practices in biodiversity conservation and ecosystem management.

15:02

🤝 Building Relationships and Balancing Perspectives

Frank Mighty discusses the importance of building relationships with indigenous communities when dealing with invasive species. He emphasizes the need for a holistic approach that includes all voices within a community, not just a single representative. He talks about the challenges of integrating traditional indigenous practices with western science and the need for enforcement of conservation plans. Frank also addresses the issue of ticks becoming a more significant problem than phragmites in his area and the importance of cultural burning as a potential solution. He stresses the need for a balanced approach that respects both indigenous knowledge and western science.

20:03

🔍 Implementing Treaty Rights and Conservation

In this paragraph, Frank Mighty talks about the importance of implementing treaty rights in conservation efforts. He discusses how indigenous people have protected certain forest stands and wetlands through treaties and how these rights are often overlooked. He highlights the need for settlers to understand and respect these rights to work together effectively. Frank also shares his personal journey from a colonial mindset to embracing his indigenous understanding of invasive species, driven by his desire to teach his children and be a bridge between knowledge systems. He mentions his involvement in the Conservation through Reconciliation Partnership, which aims to create environmental protection through collaboration between indigenous and non-indigenous people.

Keywords

💡Indigenous Perspectives

Indigenous perspectives refer to the worldview, knowledge, and values held by indigenous peoples. In the context of the video, these perspectives are used to understand and interact with the natural world, particularly regarding invasive species. The speaker emphasizes the importance of switching from a Western scientific mindset to an indigenous one, highlighting a shift in approach from dominance over nature to living in harmony with it.

💡Invasive Species

Invasive species are organisms not native to an ecosystem that, when introduced, cause harm to the environment, the economy, or human health. The video script challenges the typical Western view of invasive species as purely harmful, suggesting instead that every species has a value and a place, and that indigenous peoples have historically coexisted with migrating species.

💡Ecological Integrity

Ecological integrity refers to the maintenance of an ecosystem's health and ability to support its intended biodiversity. The script discusses how ecological integrity has been compromised, particularly in the last 587 years, likely referring to the period following European colonization. The speaker points out that indigenous stories and knowledge can play a crucial role in restoring this integrity.

💡Traditional Teachings

Traditional teachings are the cultural and spiritual instructions passed down through generations in indigenous communities. In the video, these teachings are presented as laws that have governed the land for thousands of years, emphasizing a deep respect for the land and its resources. They are contrasted with Western scientific approaches and are suggested as a means to achieve a more balanced relationship with the environment.

💡All My Relations

All My Relations is a teaching from indigenous cultures that emphasizes the interconnectedness of all living beings. It extends the concept of family to include the natural world, animals, and the environment. The video uses this concept to argue for a more humble and reciprocal approach to using the earth's resources, ensuring the sustainability of these resources for future generations.

💡Natural Law

Natural law, as mentioned in the script, refers to the inherent and absolute laws that govern nature, such as the need for food, water, and shelter for survival. It is presented as a guiding principle for indigenous people, emphasizing that human laws should not override these natural laws. The speaker suggests that living in accordance with natural law leads to a harmonious existence with the environment.

💡Mutual Support

Mutual support is the concept that people and the natural world should work together for the benefit of all. The script discusses how traditional indigenous societies lived with this understanding, relying on the environment and giving back to it. This is contrasted with the current Western approach, which often seeks to control or dominate nature.

💡Anishinaabe

Anishinaabe refers to a group of indigenous peoples native to the Great Lakes region of North America, also known as Ojibwe or Mississauga. In the video, the speaker identifies as Anishinaabe and shares their cultural views on species migration and the environment. This identity shapes the speaker's perspective on ecological management and the treatment of invasive species.

💡Phragmites

Phragmites is a species of common reed that has been labeled as an invasive species in many areas. The script discusses the challenges of managing Phragmites and how the indigenous approach seeks to understand its purpose and find ways to coexist with it, rather than simply attempting to eradicate it.

💡Cultural Burning

Cultural burning is a traditional indigenous practice used for various purposes, including land management and enhancing biodiversity. The script mentions the desire to reintroduce this practice as a potential solution to ecological challenges, reflecting a shift towards integrating indigenous knowledge with Western science for environmental management.

💡Conservation Through Reconciliation

Conservation Through Reconciliation is a partnership mentioned in the script that aims to combine indigenous and non-indigenous efforts for environmental protection. This partnership is an example of how the video advocates for a collaborative approach to conservation that respects and incorporates indigenous knowledge and rights.

Highlights

Speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding invasive species from an indigenous perspective.

Indigenous knowledge systems are highlighted as a crucial part of ecological management.

The speaker introduces himself with his indigenous name, Ginyu, meaning 'golden eagle'.

The speaker discusses the significance of winter as a time for storytelling and passing on indigenous teachings.

Traditional stories are viewed as laws that have governed the land for 15,000 years.

The concept of 'All My Relations' is introduced as a guiding principle for indigenous people's relationship with the earth.

Natural law is explained as absolute and evident, with no room for compromise.

The law of mutual support is presented as essential for living in harmony with the natural world.

Anishinaabe views on species movement and migration are shared, emphasizing the purpose behind these movements.

The speaker challenges the concept of 'invasive species' by suggesting every species has value and usefulness.

The potential of Phragmites as an alternative fuel source is discussed.

The speaker reflects on the settler community's approach to invasive species and its impact on indigenous lands.

The importance of understanding and incorporating cultural knowledge into ecological practices is emphasized.

The speaker calls for forgiveness and a change in perspective regarding the damage caused to the land.

Indigenous engagement strategies are suggested for organizations working on invasive species.

The need for enforcement and implementation of ecological management plans is highlighted.

The speaker shares personal stories of trying to find value in invasive species like Phragmites.

The concept of balance and coexistence with invasive species is explored.

The speaker discusses the impact of Phragmites on wildlife and the need for solutions.

The importance of understanding and respecting treaty rights in environmental conservation is emphasized.

The speaker shares his personal journey from colonial thinking to embracing traditional understandings of invasive species.

Examples of good practices in southern Ontario regarding invasive species management are given.

Transcripts

so honey hello welcome everybody um

uh this is the indigenous perspectives

and understandings of invasive species

and and uh told through the the the eyes

of uh frank mighty's and this is

something that's really fun uh that i

started doing this is me actually

switching off the western science side

of my brain and actually only focusing

through my indigenous side and my

indigenous knowledge systems and i

usually share with people um

i get to work with and i'm pretty happy

to be here today this is not an overly

long presentation so i actually want to

have a dialogue with people through

questions and answers if we can do that

um but please be reminded it wasn't long

ago it would have been illegal for me to

come and share my knowledge through

indigenous perspectives with all you

about conservation and ecological

management so i thank all of you from

the bottom of my heart for coming today

to listen to me speak

keeping with our traditions i will

introduce myself uh in our language and

our with my traditional name and my

indigenous name is ginyu which means the

golden eagle and i've been asked to

watch over the lands and waters i come

from a community called the skijamang or

curve lake first nation which is just

north of peterborough

uh in ontario and i'm a member of the

honor clan who specializes uh that

member that clan actually specializes in

indigenous and settler relations and

actually that's what i actually do

in my real world as well as being a

biologist

i'd actually like to acknowledge that

i'm in the uh my home territory of uh of

the chippewas and mississaugas of the

williams treaty and i'm sitting on

treaty 18 today

so it is winter and it is a very

important time for the uh mitch asagi

people

to go

and tell stories uh about the land and

ecological management how we're actually

gonna continue our livelihood in our

lifestyle

and we usually tell this to our young

people during the winter months and in

our culture it's an ancient and

important art and it's how we pass our

teachings

from one generation to the next so

that's kind of what we're going to do

today i'm going to show tell you about

some of our traditional teachings that

are often mislooked

in

western science and ecological

management of the landscape

uh and i often do this actually this

time of year to my kids and my nieces

and nephews because they tend to spend a

lot of time with us and they tend to

give me uh my the full attention

and when indigenous people refer to

things like traditional teachings i i

like ask people to remember

that's not just viewed as a story like

the ones that you might purchase at

chapters or read in a magazine but these

are the laws that have governed this

land for 15 000 years

well it's only been the last 587 years

that things have become out of balance

um and some of the challenges we've had

in ecological integrity

uh we did tell stories though just for

uh all year long for people's knowledge

but the the winners when we actually got

together and told stories

and um with the amount of snow we've had

recently in southern ontario i thought

this was best to do it in this in this

format

i shared with my daughter

uh the other day that traditional

stories can only be some stories can

only be told in the winter when there is

uh deep snow on the ground

the snow is significant because there

are some tales that you don't want to be

telling when the animals and other

spirits are out to hear you

when there's snow on the ground you know

the animals are hibernating and you know

the spirits are sleeping so they can't

hear you and that's why we talk about

them

and then all indigenous people have to

wait all year round for these stories to

be told so i'm glad that you're here

today

so i'm going to start with uh the

traditional teaching of all our

relations and

some of these laws i'll share with you

today i i call them the forgotten laws

of governance and and this forgotten law

of government started around

uh 1763 with the signing of the royal

proclamation and up to that point

indigenous people and non-indigenous

people lived in harmony under our

natural law and governance it was a

signing of the royal approximation that

really started causing problems not only

for the indigenous people but the

environment as well

so it here's the teaching about all our

relations so indigenous peoples are

caretakers of mother earth and realize

and respect her gifts of water air and

fire indigenous peoples have a special

relationship with the earth and all

living things in it this relationship is

based on a profound spiritual connection

to mother earth that has guided our

people to practice humility and

reciprocity uh in all our activities

it's also based on the sub subsistence

needs and values extending back tens of

thousands of years

hunting gathering and fishing to secure

food

preserve ourselves families elderly the

widows and the community and for

ceremonial purposes

everything is taken and used with the

understanding that we can only take what

we need and we must use great care and

be aware how we take things and how much

of it so the future generations will not

be put in peril

all my relations is the teaching that is

a first reminder of

who we are and all our relations with

both our natural family and our

relatives but also to all human beings

on this planet we even extend this

relationship to go further with the web

of kinship to all animals

the the birds or the winged ones the

fish the skilled ones and to the plants

and it forms this integral marriage of

the web of life

all my relations is encouraged for us to

accept the responsibilities we have

within the universal family of living

beings in a humorous and moral manner to

this earth

another law that we don't often talk

about

uh when we start doing

conservation planning is natural law

our worldview as indigenous people

maintains that with within nature it can

be kind and generous

one of strength

of natural law is that all everything

that nature does is absolute

natural law is evident and clear and

allows no room for compromise

for example any person who stays outside

on a cold winter's night without proper

clone clothing will freeze to death any

creature whether it be a dog a deer a

person

a flea or even a tick

if they don't uh eat and drink they will

die natural law prevails around the

rulings of any human law

it's is simple basic and

eternal

like the circle of life itself humans

who live within natural law will live

well because natural

because nature provides all that is

needed for the essentials of life

these first uh the first people of this

land believe that these laws of the

natural world would be shared closely

and observed

to guide uh to guide all our human

behaviors

after all most creation stories describe

the human position in the world as being

a humble one humans are not to intended

to conquer and control the natural but

to live in harmony within it

and the final law that i never see

talked about uh anymore

is a law of mutual support

and that one is for people who live on

the land whether it be indigenous people

or non-indigenous people the demands of

daily life require that people work

together with the natural world not

against it or against each other and all

those other beings who occupy that space

traditional peoples lived within the web

of life with mutual support from the

environment knowing that eventually

it will always secure and create a

balance and that's one of the things i

talk about a lot when i talk about

invasive species there will be

eventually a balance achieved we just

have to

understand it and be patient

so now we move into our talk about

invasive species and how this all works

and and

um you look at the anishinaabe views on

i called anishinaabe views on species on

the move

and for the mitchell soggy people that's

what i am i'm an ishinabe person or you

might know us as ojibwe people but i'm a

mitch asagi person which uh we are the

inhabitants of the shores of lake

ontario the north shore of lake ontario

um

and

for our people we always knew species

moved around

some people call it a migration from

region to region and our people did this

as well we would move around with those

species and

and and you know from our spring and

summer and winter hunting grounds we

would travel around our territories so

why wouldn't this be true at a much

larger global scale

right we've always believed that as the

michael sagi people things did move

around with a purpose

the mitsusaki believed that all species

could be used and had a place in the

ecosystem if you ask through the lens of

spirituality

everything has migrated to an area we

just have to ask why is it here and how

can we coexist together

right that's a very different

perspective um we talk about invasive

species management how can we co-exist

together

granted there can be some challenges

along the way

but we all have a purpose when we come

together and serve it together

to the natural environment

so let's now talk about what settlers

deem as invasive species

our world view

as an anishinabe or mitch asagi people

believe that every plant in life has a

value and a usefulness to it it's our

collective responsibility as the

youngest members of this

natural family that means humans being

the youngest to show up on the

evolutionary scale

to figure out how we can use and use

these species and work together with

them

i often find and i'm not trying to lay

blame on anybody that settler beliefs

um often exhibit when invasive species

show up

western science tells us that they

should be dealt with

if we the indigenous people shared this

belief system then things might look

different than the landscape that we

call canada

you came to us as most part and act like

an aggressive invasive species and we

still do to this day

but we took pity on you open our lands

and our waters and try to create

co-balance with you and to this day

we're still trying to figure out

um what is meant by you coming to these

lands to teach us much like the

phragmites

i believe some species like fragmented

have come to us as a person has and we

have ignorantly as canadians not ask why

um

could it be used as a food source my

friends and i and my family members

uh i'll share this personal story with

everybody please don't laugh when i do

this uh when i share this um

but we actually looked at we're like hey

the seeds uh pods really look like

quinoa well maybe if we roasted them our

traditional way we do wild rice or

monomin

we can actually have a food source for

people so my cousins and i and my

friends gathered a whole bunch up and we

did our traditional ceremonies around

roasting them

and then the big moment of truth we went

to eat them

and it turns out you can't eat

fragmatities but at least we tried and

you know i also brought up the point

maybe it's an alternative fuel source

right maybe we can turn these uh

the stocks into uh

fuel like the pellet wood burning stoves

and a lot of people don't know even in

ontario central ontario and southern

ontario

most first nations

run on burning wood for the source of

heat

in this modern day of different

technologies to eat your home we still

use

wood because

the non-indigenous community will not

share their natural gas pipelines and

other ways to heat their homes we still

rely on what so maybe this is a source

for that

right we can use that we don't have to

cut down trees anymore we can use

phragmites

so that's one of the things that we

often talk about right

how do we work together and

and work with these plants

i also look back over this pandemic and

see another plant that settler society

uh

really can test its value to the

ecosystem

and i'm speaking about the manitoba

maple

every report my community gets to review

and talk about invasive species and the

waste control invasive species

it talks about eradication of manitoba

maple and it makes me chuckle a lot

because

it's interesting because the the settler

community does not know

that that's a prized

uh medicinal plant that my people use

it was one of the first plants when the

pandemic first struck that i actually

was asked to go harvest for my elders

and knowledge keepers yet people view it

as a nutrient species

right over time since its arrival in our

territory we've asked how to use it and

and talk to our other family members

across this territory in this great land

to how do we use it to help our people

and that's what we need to do here with

phragmites

what are we doing that we need

what are we doing still doing and need

to currently shift

to help correct the problems with this

perspective and these and

this land

we still need to understand and work

together that these colonizing behaviors

that we use in western science is still

leading to environmental degradation and

the spread of invasive species

understand that um settlers

typically prescribe

um and substitute for different species

that they remove from our landscape for

example

settlers remove bison we replace them

with cattle we sacrificed atlantic

salmon lake trout brook trout from lake

ontario and replaced them with pacific

salmon rainbow trout and brown trout

so to end on before we open it up for

questions and a more wholesome

sharing circle

we need to enhance our understanding

practices

that still

may

contribute to the impact of biodiversity

and biodiversity conservation and

further ecosystem management

understand the cultural knowledge and

value of systems and under uh that

underpins certain practices that we do

on the landscape

and most importantly we need to ask for

forgiveness to the damage that we have

done to this land and that we continue

to cause together

and i'd like to say jimmy guetch for

your time today and i will open it to

questions

um i suppose i'll open with my first

question that

ccis has talked with amongst ourselves

what would you recommend to be the best

way that we'd be reaching out to

indigenous peoples because so many

our invasive organizations do run on

western science

how can we

reach out to these people to incorporate

them into what we're doing

oh um

that's actually uh something that uh

a few of my friends and i've been

talking about quite a bit but it is

actually starting to create an

indigenous engagement strategy one of

the big things that

i would actually say canadians forget is

that

when we start applying some of these

western techniques that they could have

an impact of our rights as first nations

people

right and i'm not trying to be critical

of anybody but we need to understand

that there is this impact of rights that

you might not know because you don't

have those rights as non-indigenous

people

so we need to actually have wholesome

relationships with indigenous people and

and i would start looking at um the

major treaty areas of

like you know for ontario uh like you

start with us you reach out to the

williams treaty

uh

seven communities right of central

ontario then you start like looking at

the robinson huron and then maybe you

can start looking at watershed levels

because we often lived in watersheds but

you have these plans where you have

equal participation by the indigenous

community and that's really important um

we don't want one indigenous voice if

there's like nine first nations

right uh that have signatories to that

treaty area then you need to have all

nine

right it's not simple just having one

voice you need all nine because each

first nation is a different nation and

we represent ourselves differently we

might be all related to each other and

we're family but we all have different

community goals especially around

environment environmental conservation

thank you and courtney says hi gary i

love this perspective could you speak

more on how we balance developing a

relationship and finding rules for

invasive species like phragmites with

the potential

harm yeah um

you know and each community is different

so they might have a totally different

perspective than my own

right um

we you know my people have been uh

removed from the landscape for 100 years

with a treaty that was full of lies um

the first ever governmental white uh

white out was used on one of our

treaties to renegotiate after we signed

it so we have a different perspective of

a healing process than a commune that

may not have those challenges and so you

need to really strike that conversation

up and ask what their local stories are

how do they do things right

um

i know this is not prescriptive of

fragmities for sure but

the big one that we're talking about we

have a

an invasive problem with ticks right now

it's actually the tick problem is so big

in central ontario right now it's

actually superseded our frank mightiest

challenge that we have and we haven't

been really looking at fragments as much

as we should be because our

ticks are ravaging the landscape

essentially and but we used to be do

cultural burning so what are those

cultural ecological monitoring

techniques that you've now still deemed

illegal for us to do so when i often

talk to different regulators i'm like

hey i have a person on my team and like

my staff that

her

especially his cultural restoration to

prescribe burning

that really makes a lot of people

nervous but if that's a technique you

should be using

for that area how can we do it in a good

way and how can we collect use both

knowledge systems to facilitate that

conversation

right you could totally do a traditional

uh cultural thing and still collect

western science data on it you just need

to ask a more wholesome how right don't

come to us with the prescribed plan but

actually talk about us and how we used

to manage these things

and that and that and that's a something

that will help us also create cultural

uh like a cultural rejuvenation to a

landscape right because there's still a

lot you know it wasn't until 1978 that a

lot of our practices were deemed illegal

by canada so we need to acknowledge that

piece into it as well

um so next question from janice

it's along the same lines what are your

thoughts about the impact phragmites on

wildlife that cannot be moved out of the

habitat

being overtaken to detriment because

phragmites seems to be a bit of a bully

oh you know janice i was going to say

there's a europe europe joke there

somewhere um

uh

but uh yeah and it is something and this

is something we've been asking that

question for like you know we look at

silver turtle species and some uh we

actually are a community that loves to

eat um bull frogs and green frogs

and and we're seeing a decrease in those

populations across our territory

especially where there is uh high

abundance of fragmodies um

and

so we're actually looking at trying to

how to create solutions around that

uh it is actually quite a challenge

um but we're also looking at it from a

western uh compliance measure so when

you know western science practitioners

prescribe an evasive species management

plan for a site in our territory we'd

actually like to see you carry it out

that's one of the biggest challenges we

see in the in the kawarthas is that

people write and prescribe these plans

but there's no one there to enforce it's

uh

it's implica uh implementation right so

we do see a lot of

soil disruption seed disruption um

you know we have cartridges coming into

our territory mowing down

uh phragmites and actually other

traditional plants we use

um and just creating a whole big mess

right we're seeing improper restoration

techniques where they say hey look we

moved to wetland for you don't worry

and it's like no you just moved a bunch

of fragments you actually didn't move

anything that we wanted right so there's

a lot of implementation right we we're

still at that cusp where i i often say

and i'm and i do i do western science

and i do indigenous sciences as well

settlers write great policy they have no

mechanism to monitor and implement them

we need more implementation monument

enforcement right i want to see a fine

that will hurt you as a business

development

person not

just oh you know i once had a person

actually tell us he's going to raise a

check right there on the spot and i

thought you know

like oh my god right like what we're

doing isn't working so we need more of

that we need more enforcement

all right a question from michael

seeking out the value of species of any

origin have for people examples being

fuel and food can also lead to issues

such as over exploitation do you have

any thoughts on how to guard against

this

well so you have to actually if you're

in ontario you have to look at the

treaty rights of the people that you're

working in

so in our treaty area

we actually have in central ontario

um

that we've just settled our treaty in

2018 it was reaffirmed that we had these

rights by canada we had apologies by the

province by multiple levels of the

province and the federal government

that we have protected through um

our treaty rights the the protection of

certain forest stands culturally

significant forest stands like sugar

maple and

oak and uh birch

and eastern hemlock but we've also

protected all the wetlands every wetland

in central ontario is protected through

the treaty we actually don't need

western science we just need all of you

to know that

and and so if we had these

implementation measures in place and

people understand that then we can

actually work together

right and that's the challenge piece to

it it's people don't know these things

so you need to research in the treaty

right we actually as indigenous people

wrote

um the fact that you uh need to protect

the environment from people coming into

our territory like we actually never

sign the rights to water away so for an

example so any harm settlers do to the

water waterways in our territory central

ontario that's a violation of treaty

right even for you to take a glass of

water in central ontario

is a violation of treaty because you

don't have our consent and who would

have thought that right i come from a

first nation north of peterborough with

not clean oh we don't have clean

drinking water

and that's the reality right ironically

the treaty that we possess for the

muskokas

and the perry sound area uh you guys are

all gonna laugh when you hear this it

actually says white people can't live

there

so we definitely know we have to

renegotiate that one right and we're

kind of like the all environmental

destruction that's happening up there

like you can keep it it's okay it's kind

of like toronto we don't want it back

it's kind of you've done enough um so we

need to work on those on those values

for sure and implement treaty in a good

way

so this is a personal question

um you have a scientific background so

what was the

reason or trigger that made you switch

from the more

i suppose colonial thinking toward

invasive species towards your

traditional understanding

that's a good question

i think

so it's always been on like um one of

the things the elders always told me is

that they were reading

breeding me to be one of the bridges

between both knowledge systems

and

uh but for me it was actually um

when i started having kids and then i

realized okay someone needs to show them

both sides of this coin

to make a difference in canada and i

think that's what really triggered it

um and it got me into more sharing

stories like this and then it's also

part of it too was stop i would stop

being afraid of it i was no longer

afraid

to share our values and our culture with

all of you

it was actually we grew up teaching that

this was a bad thing to share with you

and that we could be prosecuted for it

and one day i just said i'll just do it

all right courtney you would like to

know are there any examples of people

doing this work in a good way in

southern ontario that you know of or

have been involved in

yeah

a lot of us are uh are members of the

conservation through reconciliation

partnership at the university of guelph

that's where we kind of store some of

these ideas and we were able to work

together with indigenous people and

non-indigenous people to create

um environmental protection it started

through the indigenous

uh protected areas campaign and the

pathways one target but we're now start

branching out doing more conservation

discussions

awesome well thank you so much gary we

really appreciate you uh coming joining

us and we really enjoyed your more

storytelling style