Israeli Spokesman Threatens Host During On-Air Meltdown

Summary

The script discusses a contentious interview on Channel 4 with Israeli spokesperson Alon Levy regarding allegations of war crimes and genocidal intent by Israeli forces in Gaza. It touches on the invocation of biblical references to justify actions against Palestinians, drawing parallels with historical genocides and questioning the morality and legal standing of such actions. The conversation critically examines the framing of the conflict, the use of evidence in international courts, and the broader implications of labeling such acts as genocide, all while highlighting the complex interplay of history, law, and international relations in assessing culpability and defining genocide.

Takeaways

• 📺 The script discusses a contentious interview on Channel 4 involving Krishna and Guro Murthy and Israeli spokesperson Alon Levy, focusing on allegations of war crimes and genocidal intent by the Israeli military.
• 🔍 It highlights the use of biblical references by Israeli soldiers and officials to justify actions against Palestinians, drawing parallels to genocidal intent.
• ⚖️ The discussion includes references to a video presented at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) as evidence by South Africa, showing Israeli soldiers expressing views that were interpreted as genocidal.
• 🌍 The script touches on global reactions and the role of international law in addressing the situation, with a focus on the Genocide Convention's criteria.
• 💬 The narrative criticizes the Israeli government's response to accusations and its handling of the conflict, pointing out contradictions and perceived injustices.
• 📚 It mentions historical comparisons, including past genocides and the Holocaust, to argue against the uniqueness of any single genocide and to challenge the framing of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
• 👥 The conversation brings up the issue of civilian casualties and the ethical implications of military actions in Gaza, questioning the morality of the Israeli Army's operations.
• 🚫 It condemns the use of anti-Semitic allegations to deflect criticism of Israeli policies, emphasizing the need for accountability and justice.
• 🔎 The script scrutinizes the effectiveness and intentions behind Israel's military strategy in Gaza, suggesting it may be aimed at broader goals than combating Hamas.
• 🌐 Lastly, it underscores the importance of recognizing and addressing genocidal actions within the framework of international law, urging a reevaluation of support and policies towards Israel.

Q & A

What is the context of the discussion about the Israeli army's actions in Gaza?

The discussion revolves around allegations of war crimes and genocidal intent by the Israeli government and military in their actions in Gaza, based on statements by high-level Israeli officials and behavior of Israeli soldiers.

What evidence is mentioned in the script regarding the Israeli army's behavior?

The script references a video played at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) trial, presented by South Africa, showing Israeli soldiers chanting about AMC (Amalek) and expressing genocidal intent towards Palestinians.

How does the script describe the Israeli spokesperson's response to allegations?

The Israeli spokesperson, Alon Levy, is described as dismissive and evasive, avoiding direct answers to the allegations and questioning the evidence presented.

What are the biblical references mentioned in the script, and how are they related to the conflict?

The script mentions biblical references to Amalek (AMC), used by Israeli officials and soldiers to metaphorically describe Palestinians. This is seen as indicative of genocidal intent.

What comparisons are made between Israeli soldiers and U.S. soldiers in the script?

The script compares the behavior of Israeli soldiers in Gaza to that of U.S. soldiers in incidents like the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, highlighting the serious misconduct and potential war crimes.

How is the term 'genocide' discussed in the script in relation to Israel's actions?

The script discusses the term 'genocide' in the context of Israel's actions in Gaza, suggesting that Israel's treatment of Palestinians meets several criteria of genocide as defined by international law.

What role does the International Court of Justice play in the context of the script?

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is mentioned as the venue where evidence of alleged war crimes and genocidal intent by Israel was presented, particularly a video showing Israeli soldiers' behavior.

How does the script describe the Israeli spokesperson's handling of questions regarding civilian casualties?

The script portrays the Israeli spokesperson as deflecting questions about civilian casualties in Gaza, focusing instead on justifying Israel's military actions and dismissing the severity of the casualties.

What does the script say about the genocide convention?

The script discusses the so-called genocide convention, which outlines acts that constitute genocide, such as killing members of a group, causing harm, and deliberately inflicting conditions to bring about a group's destruction.

What is the significance of the October 7th reference in the script?

October 7th is mentioned as a significant date for an event or series of events that escalated the conflict, though the script does not provide specific details about what occurred on this date.

Outlines

00:00

😡 Israel spokesperson denies evidence of genocidal intent against Palestinians

An Israeli spokesperson is interviewed about evidence presented at the International Criminal Court of genocidal intent by Israel against Palestinians. The spokesperson denies and downplays the evidence, accusing the interviewer of taking things out of context and trying to justify Israel's actions.

05:01

😠 Israeli spokesperson justifies civilian deaths and denies investigations into war crimes

The Israeli spokesperson justifies civilian deaths in Gaza by blaming Hamas for the war. He denies investigations are needed into potential war crimes by Israeli soldiers against civilians. He accuses the interviewer of trying to contextualize Hamas' atrocities.

10:01

😡 Interviewer challenges inflated civilian death toll justification

The interviewer challenges the spokesperson's justification of the high civilian death toll, noting over 24,000 people killed. The spokesperson argues casualties are tragic but would not have happened without Hamas' actions. The interviewer argues the conflict did not start on October 7.

15:02

🤬 Spokesperson falsely claims all casualties are due to October 7th

The spokesperson falsely claims all casualties after October 7th would be alive if not for Hamas' actions that day. The hosts argue many were killed before then due to Israel's occupation and crimes against Palestinians.

20:02

😡 Spokesperson relies on Western ignorance of global genocides

The hosts criticize the spokesperson for arrogantly claiming only the Holocaust can be called a genocide. They argue the West ignores many global genocides and unfairly treats the Holocaust as exceptionally evil compared to state crimes against indigenous peoples.

25:03

😤 No justification for bombing civilians instead of targeting Hamas

The hosts criticize the spokesperson's claim that indiscriminate bombing of Gaza was the only way to respond after October 7th. They argue Israel could have targeted Hamas leaders or negotiated instead of genocide.

30:06

😠 World must recognize Israeli crimes as genocide by definition

The hosts argue Israel's actions meet the legal definition of genocide per the UN genocide convention. The world must be able to identify genocide by powerful states, not just when it's convenient geopolitically.

Keywords

💡Apartheid

Apartheid refers to a system of institutionalized racial segregation and discrimination. In the context of Israel-Palestine, it describes Israel's policies and practices towards Palestinians in the occupied territories that systematically privilege Israeli Jews while oppressing Palestinians. The video argues that Israel operates an apartheid system, citing things like separate roads, different legal systems, and denial of civil rights for Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza.

💡Ethnic cleansing

Ethnic cleansing refers to the forced removal or displacement of an ethnic group from a particular area, often through violence, intimidation, or coercion. The video suggests Israel's actions in Gaza, including mass displacement of Palestinians and targeted bombing of residential areas, constitute ethnic cleansing.

💡Settler colonialism

Settler colonialism refers to a process where an external population takes over the land and resources of an indigenous group. The video implies this applies to Israel, which was established through Jewish settlement of historic Palestine at the expense of the indigenous Palestinian population.

💡International law

International law refers to the rules and norms that govern relations between states. The video argues that Israel is violating international law through actions like settlement expansion and collective punishment of Palestinians.

💡Self-determination

Self-determination is the right of peoples to freely determine their political status and pursue economic, social and cultural development. The video implies Palestinians are denied this right under Israeli occupation.

💡Genocide

Genocide refers to acts committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group. The video argues that Israel's actions in Gaza meet the criteria for genocide based on evidence presented at the International Court of Justice.

💡War crimes

War crimes refer to grave breaches of the laws of war, like targeting civilians or using disproportionate force. The video implies that Israel is committing war crimes through high civilian death tolls and indiscriminate bombing of Gaza.

💡Impunity

Impunity means exemption from punishment or consequences. The video suggests Israel acts with impunity, facing no accountability for violations of Palestinian human rights.

💡International complicity

International complicity refers to other countries enabling or supporting Israel's policies towards Palestinians. The video notes U.S. military aid to Israel and Western support for settlements as examples.

💡Resistance

Resistance refers to Palestinians fighting back against Israeli occupation and oppression through both violent and nonviolent means. The video frames Hamas rocket attacks in October as a form of resistance.

Highlights

Israeli spokesperson Alon Levy's defense of the Israeli military's actions in Gaza, highlighting the claim of moral superiority and denial of war crimes.

Krishna and guro Murthy's interview with Alon Levy, focusing on a video presented at the ICJ trial that showed Israeli soldiers' genocidal intent.

The Channel 4 anchor's confrontation of Levy with evidence of soldiers celebrating violence against Palestinians, indicative of a broader genocidal intent.

Discussion on the historical and biblical justifications used by Israeli officials and soldiers to legitimize violence against Palestinians.

Comparison of Israeli soldiers' actions to the scandalous behavior of US soldiers, highlighting a pattern of military misconduct in conflict zones.

Levy's attempt to differentiate between the Israeli military's official objectives and the actions of individual soldiers, amidst accusations of genocidal intent.

Analysis of the Israeli government's statements and policies as evidence of genocidal intent, including Netanyahu's opposition to a Palestinian state.

The use of the term 'politicide' by Israeli historian Baro Kimmerling to describe the systematic destruction of Palestinian political structures.

Levy's dismissal of questions regarding the military's accountability for civilian casualties, and the deflection of blame onto Hamas.

The conversation on the broad implications of the term 'genocide,' challenging the monopoly of the Holocaust's memory in defining genocide.

Critique of the international community's reluctance to label the Israeli government's actions as genocide, despite evidence fitting the Genocide Convention's criteria.

Discussion on the historical context of genocides beyond the Holocaust, including the impact on Native Americans and other populations.

The debate over the appropriate use of the term 'genocide' and its application to the actions of the Israeli government against Palestinians.

Examination of the ideological underpinnings of genocides, including the influence of colonialism and racial theories on the Nazi regime.

Reflection on the role of international law and institutions in recognizing and preventing genocides, with a focus on the situation in Palestine.

Transcripts

Massacre um in Gaza continues and

Israeli spokespeople keep going on

television October 7th October 7th

October 7th also we are the most moral

army in the world also we're definitely

not committing war crimes at an

unprecedented scale as every metric

indicates um and then when that doesn't

necessarily work they try vaguely

threatening people question mark this is

channel 4's Krishna and guro Murthy

speaking to Israeli spokesperson

spokesperson um Alon Levy who's been on

TV before and who should be in prison

yeah they respond I'm glad all this is

on video honestly evidence uh they're uh

the the channel 4 anchor here asks uh

Levy or or Levi to respond to a video uh

that was played at the icj trial which

was a part of the evidence presented by

South Africa we played it on this

program showing that Israeli

soldiers took what Netanyahu and other

highlevel Israeli officials said about

AMC right um the biblical uh people that

are supposed to be wiped out um wipe out

their seed wipe out I'm paraphrasing but

kill everybody because they are the

enemy of your people and basically

called Palestinians AMC which the South

African case says this shows genocidal

intent by the Israeli government and

Israeli soldiers took it as genocidal

intent so there's a video of them does

this is this included in the interview

the video okay enough of my the video is

not included right okay so so they

describe it but Bas but uh enough of my

Prelude this is how it went down video

that was played in courts yesterday of

Israeli soldiers

singing about AMC uh and singing about

the fact that there were no innocent

civilians and in every War soldiers uh

May perform things for social media that

have absolutely nothing to do with the

declared goals of this war and everyone

at every level understands but it

revealed their their goal that this go

and and again you keep going back to

this amalik reference refers to the

destru like forget the amalik thing they

literally said there are no civilians in

Gaza okay and also we had actually a

huge Scandal here with AB grab uh prison

photos um and like the idea that if we

were if there were chanting I I would

love to know and publicize it actually

like if American soldiers were doing

things specifically like that Chelsea

Manning did Chelsea Manning published I

mean that was a big part of what what

she went to prison for was the the the

the leaks of the uh US soldiers on the

Apache helicopters basically laughing as

they Gunn down civilians yeah exactly

like this is a scandal it's not

something to celebrate to the extent

that it does happen yeah even if you

don't want to say it's genocidal intent

it's

clearly wrong for the military to view

that as their objective in a war again

it's not a war that would require there

to be at least some semblance of

evenhanded sides or the ability for the

population to fight back we know what

this is it's definitely not a war yeah I

mean and Bush and and admin should have

people going to prison too um but they

even they went the distance of saying

look we're not at war with all Muslim

people we're just at war with like

Al-Qaeda or whatever right like I don't

know no meanwhile yeah president Herzog

saying there like we there no innocent

people in that Nation there's no

innocent people in that Nation it's in

the DNA of Arabs to hoard their food so

we can't give them food I mean like

we're talking deep deep crazy genocidal

racism here there's just tons of

evidence there's like tons of tons of

Clips all taken out of context

apparently and not just verbal too the

verbal stuff we get too hang up on

that's why I think like the focus on AMC

like they have they literally just

demolished like maybe the final standing

University in Gaza they've bombed all

the hospitals like this is a um Baro

kimmerling who a former Israeli

historian uh used the term politicide

when you wipe out the um structures that

help people DET turn themselves

politically this is this is just obvious

like and like the like like all these

different examples are basically just

like you just you have a multitude of

examples you could be pointing out

exactly declared goals of this war and

everyone at every level understands but

it revealed their their goals that this

goal and and again you keep going back

to this amalik reference refers to the

destruction of Hamas it refers to the

destruction of the

terrorization it refers to the

destruction of the terrorist

organization but in that video we see

them chanting about their own Minister

has been clear the defense minister and

the war cabinet and all those who make

decisions including the chief of staff

and all the senior generals that our war

is a war against Hamas and not the

Palestinian people so were those

soldiers wrong was it was that chanting

wrong had a senior officer or a

politician come in would would they have

said stop that that's wrong I'm not

familiar with the particular video I

didn't video that was played in court

yesterday I haven't watched that

particular video I was on a flight from

Tel Aviv yesterday during the

proceedings uh but of course to say

things that are not in accordance with

the military goals of the campaign that

is not acceptable and the Army has

already disciplined soldiers on occasion

deviated the problem with your statement

here is that what the genocide case is

showing and Brandon you were at the hag

right you I mean not to oh he's Frozen

dang it um but uh the the problem is is

that it is it is the stated goals of the

government that is what is being shown

Netanyahu invoking amalec okay and then

the soldiers chanting about it and

saying there are no innocent civilians

for people that don't know this is the

Bible verse now go and smite amalec and

utterly destroy all that they have and

spare them not but slay both man and

woman infant and suckling ox and sheep

camel and ass what that means is AMC

equals Palestinians in Gaza go and smite

them destroy all that they have spare

them not slay both man and woman infant

and suckling ox and sheep camel and ass

that is the verse that was invoked by

Netanyahu then you have soldiers

chanting about it saying there are no

innocent civilians that is one of the

stronger examples that South Africa was

able to present um and you don't even

need to get to the the biblical stuff

one hour ago Israeli Prime Minister

Benjamin nyaho says he has told us that

he opposes Palestinian state in any

post-war scenario like sorry and a

nation that should be a like everyone

agrees international law exists to be it

like has a right to uh people that have

a right to self determination that's

genocide um with regard independent of

the actual bombing that is just

hastening what we has been going on in

slow motion for a while benir um we're

going to occupy Gaza and stay there and

develop a plan of encouragement to make

Palestinians leave like this is and and

and so

like this guy is on the BBC insulting

everyone's intelligence by not even uh I

mean I guess it's just pretending he

hasn't seen the video exactly like that

how like that's like he was at the

proceedings but he didn't see the

evidence presented by I don't care that

you were on a plane like every oh he

that's he said he was on a plane this is

recorded yeah like you familiarize

yourself with it like know the lack of

seriousness is an insult it is a provoc

it's a provocation this guy is being

provocative right now well I mean I

think he's he's go ahead Brandon I think

he's hoping that everyone else at home

is you know as stupid as the average

pundit although not this guy who

interviewing him is which is that they

probably didn't watch it themselves and

so we can just pretend like no one knows

what's on that clip did you see it I

didn't see it when you know I don't know

what stated policy goal specifically

he's referencing but as the again as the

icj testimony by South Africa

established like even their like most I

guess least mer IST uh goals of like

just totally displacing all people all

Palestinians in Gaza still constitutes

genocide and ethnic cleansing under the

genocide convention so it's not enough

to say like oh well yeah that was just a

metaphor the AMC thing was just a

metaphor it was you know it's just the

way we talk about these sorts of things

uh because even when they're being

explicit they're still talking about

genocide yes exactly um the presenter

should say hey you want to uh leave my

studio and go watch it and come prepared

next time and instead we have to treat

these people as if they as he's about to

do get to uh dictate us lessons yeah

this is this is how this guy responds uh

under very mild questioning and sorry

this is Channel 4 not the

BBC campaign that is not acceptable and

the Army has already disciplined

soldiers on occasions when they have

deviated from the discipline and the

standards that we uphold so you accept

that there could be soldiers who are

deviating from your stated goals and

killing civilians are there any

investigations going on president on

cases where soldiers are believed to

have acted in violation of the very very

severe standards to which we hold

ourselves that is of course investigated

but that inv but notice that this is

where we're taking the question now it

started with South Africa making a

blanket and outrageous statement that

cheapens the memory of the Holocaust by

accusing Israel of genocide for fighting

to bring back the hostages who are

trapped in the terror Dungeons and now

you're asking about whether there are

occasional misdemeanors by soldiers who

produce something uh not entirely

appropriate for Tik Tok and this shows

just how spurious and specious I'm

talking about occasional misdemeanor

we're talking about more than 23 24,000

people killed chrisan the civilian

casualties that's an extraordinary

number of Civilian casualties and it's

tragic and it's tragic Christian Like An

Earthquake everyone who has been killed

since October 7th would still be alive

if Hamas had not declared war if Hamas

were not fighting this war from densely

populated areas and no one else would be

but this didn't start oer 7 lay down

their term you're right you know you can

you can say would not have happened had

October the 7th not happened they would

say October the 7th wouldn't have

happened had Israel not occupied Gaza in

the first place I would be very wary of

trying in any way to contextualize the

atrocities of October 7th I'm explaining

what they would say I'm not

contextualizing I'm saying you should

though trying to work out when this

began yes is a very confusing I'm not

surprised that the army of Terror that

practiced acts of pedophilia necrophilia

and sexual mutilation on October 7th

would try to paint a different picture

in order to justify its atrocities there

is nothing that can justify or

contextualize the barbaric acts of

sexual violence that Hamas perpetrated

on October 7th that we Fe they are

perpetrating against the 19 women who

are still trapped in its Terror Dungeons

and which it is telling us that it wants

to do again do you think the way people

are killed in Gaza is also barbaric when

they're blown up war is a barar children

get their heads blown off is that

barbaric war is a barbaric business but

you seem to have me confused with

someone who wants this war we didn't

want this war you're just someone who

defending this war we were invaded on

October 7th with the bloodiest Massacre

of Jews since the Holocaust and we are

fighting now so that Hamas can never do

that again Krishan I wish I could send

Hamas an email or wave a magic wand and

make it go away but that's not going to

happen we have no good enough of this

tone from this guy yeah I mean there's

so much to be said there but Brandon why

don't you go ahead he's just so

condescending cuz he's relying on like

the ignorance of the audience to to just

not really be fully familiar with like

the history of Israel the history of

genocide by the West outside of the

Holocaust so that this can be framed

only in terms of like the Holocaust

which is only framed in terms of the

impact it had on Jewish population and

not on the other populations who uh the

Germans uh executed as part of their

brutal campaign uh you know it's just

it's just insane to me personally but

yeah the condescension from somebody

like you know that position even as

they're being tried in front of the icj

I guess it's their only really defense

mechanism at this point because the

evidence that was presented I found to

be pretty compelling and so you know all

you can do is like Fain

self-righteousness as though you have a

greater capacity for feeling Terror than

the Palestinian population that you

you're currently occupying and bombing

which is a again a mitigating factor in

this you can't commit or rather you

can't engage in war on an occupied on a

country that you're occupying on a

territory that you're fully occupying

Brandon Brandon I'd be I'd be very wary

of trying toize this I

mean what does that mean I mean do you

think he I mean first of all and effect

is against the rules here it is it

is I'm not GNA you know say 100% but I

feel like the the skin tone of the

interviewer also influenced like the

tone of that response basically trying

to say that he might be aligned with

terrorists I think that's fair to say

go

ahead readiz because we've already seen

this happen uh be careful with how how

you say what you're about to say because

otherwise we have many lobbyists who

will make sure you get fired from your

job exactly that's what that was yeah

and I was just going to say you know I

see what he means by contextualizing

because a lot of times when Western

Society you know tries to contextualize

stuff like this it's them providing a

justification for why they are

committing a genocide why they are

causing a famine in another country why

they're doing like brutal uh military

campaigns in countries we're not like

currently at war with and so every piece

of context is a justification for why

it's okay to do sort of things like that

as opposed to just like an explanation

of why something is happening and

whether or not you know you should

support uh you know ceasefire or not you

know you see the same thing just a micro

level where you try to contextualize why

Kane Wes acts the way he acts and

they're like you shouldn't you shouldn't

like excuse him it's not an excuse It's

just pointing out that this is what he's

doing and here's why he's doing it but

in the context of like Western Society a

lot of context is just like here's why

it's okay for someone to do this as

opposed to like hear why they're doing

it who who who gets to determine the

context points to who is powerful they

when they say but October 7th they are

contextualizing the slaughter of Gins

that we are seeing and they're saying

actually the context of October 7th

justifies it also I was just wanted to

point out that like what he said about

like everyone who died after October 7th

uh would still be alive if not for Hamas

uh committing what they committing an

atrocity on October 7th that's just

functionally not true because we know up

until that point Israel had been still

killing people inside Gaza and in the

West Bank and so many of those people

still have been yeah record Pace many of

those people who were killed as part of

this bombing campaign likely would have

been killed or injured maybe not the

same amount but over their lifespan who

knows because that's just the kind of

occupation that Israel is engaging in

which is why people prior to their

genocide was calling it an AP apartheid

state and even then was it arguing that

they were engaging in a slower genocidal

campaign yeah and I just want to when we

use the term genocide I read this

yesterday and I I don't want people to

think that we're being spirous as uh

this this genocidal enabler would say um

these are the the uh this is in article

two of the uh genocide convention um and

this is how it's deter determined whe

whether a country is is uh committing a

genocide um genocide means any of the

following acts committed with intent to

destroy and whole or in part a national

ethnic uh ethnical racial or religious

group as such a killing members of the

group Israel is guilty of that so yes B

causing serious mental or bodily or

mental harm to members of the group

obviously uh 100,000 Palestinians in

Gaza either killed missing or maimed C

deliberate inflicting on the group

conditions of Life calculated to bring

about its physical destruction in whole

or in part no clean water no food no

medicine no anesthesia um no uh places

to live anymore CU all the homes are

bombed specifically in North Gaza um 85%

displacement that makes it clear de

imposing measures intended to prevent

births within the group when I mentioned

the hospital is essentially

non-functioning um the NICU babies

decomposing because they don't have any

um uh any electricity and I saw an

article in Jezebel saying that

miscarriages are up 300% which clearly

meets a b d c and d of Article 2 e

forcibly transferring Children of the

group to another group You could argue

that imprisoning Palestinian children

Without Really any charges and any

recourse is a part of that but you can

kind of abandon that all together and

still make a very strong case because

Israel clearly meets a b d c and d and I

wrote down some the things he said here

just to point this out

um that just calling this a genocide

cheapens the memory of the Holocaust I'm

really in awe of the arrogance of Israel

to claim that they have some sort of

authority over all genocide intellectual

property um because the Holocaust is one

of the greatest crimes in the history of

humanity and a genocide of unprecedented

industrial scale enabled by European

nations and the West who then outsourc

their guilt onto the Middle East and

onto Palestinians but there have been

many genocides that meet certain

criterias genocides that have been

determined to be genocides that have

lesser death counts lesser people named

that have been determined in the icj as

genocides to meet this specific criteria

so there have been other genocides the

the Israeli government does not have a

uh copyright over genocide there

Cambodia uh The Armenian Genocide uh

Rwanda the Native American population

unless I go on and on okay no I I just

want to jump in there because I I want

to second that that that idea is so

ridicul sure maybe Holocaust like I

would uh uh hesitate to use the word

holocaust like that because of you know

association with what was done to the

Jews in World War II genocide the idea

that genocide are you like this is just

ignorant that idea that that has any

sort of specific uh um uh relevance to

Jews Like specifically no like that that

is what the West thinks they're relying

on Western ignorance because we don't

give a crap about genocides happening to

the global South that's well it's like

we are genocide deniers like we don't we

don't understand that we like this is

exactly what happened to Native

Americans like on on the land that we

are on right now and Israel does and

sorry Brandon just one final point but

Israel notices that when it's willing to

say like oh you think you're so good

well you're on Stolen land too yeah yeah

I also like support landback and things

like that to redress that historical uh

um uh crime go ahead Brandon I can say

you know we're genocide justifiers I

would say that you know you learn about

genocide in American schools you learn

about the genocide of the Native

American peoples you know learn about

genocide of certain African populations

uh you know even the concentration camps

that uh um European countries had an

African an African colonies during the

20th century uh but those genocides are

a lot of times framed as necessary

components of the construction of the

west where the Holocaust in the you know

World War II is was rather not we but

while the Holocaust in World War II is

extricated from that like framework and

understood as just some sort of like

complete atrocity that was done for no

reason other than bigotry and therefore

it is the gold standard you know for

lack of a better term for how we should

understand genocide because it wasn't

the you know at least in the minds of

the people who were defending Jewish

people and defending uh you know the act

the uh Allied Powers it wasn't done for

a justifiable claim to land that was

being held by Savages it was being done

to a claim to property that was being

held by other Western you know some

places and other Europeans and so it's

framed differently than a lot of other

genocides both in the global South and

in the United States and in Australia

because it wasn't viewed historically as

a necessary component of actually

constructing these these countries or

you know securing a level of wealth for

your country at home that could be you

know uh that could be taken from uh

Africa or South America and so it does

have a special place in the minds of you

know Americans and West and Western

Europeans because a lot of times they

were complicit in those other genocides

and they were Defenders of you know the

rights of humanity in this one and so

that's the framework that they want to

understand genocide in as opposed to

that you know even just looks at the

although people will deny this I don't

know how because Hitler and other Nazis

per themselves it said this that a lot

of aspects of the Nazi state were

inspired by the colonial regimes in in

uh Africa they were inspired by

eradication of the Native American

people by you know America it was

inspired by Jim Crow but that just hits

too close to home but but Netanyahu

Netanyahu uh denies it I mean Netanyahu

was slammed years ago for spreading the

conspiracy theory that the Palestinian

Grand Muti gave Hitler the idea to

exterminate the Jews which is Holocaust

revisionism so when that spokesperson

there says the uh you know that calling

what Israel is doing a genocide when it

meets uh four out of five of the uh

planks of article two of the genocide

convention just on its face um that it

cheapens the memory of the Holocaust no

that's what you're doing you're cheaping

cheapening the memory of the Holocaust

as the fascist Israeli

government in by the way continuing to

frame it as the largest attack on Jews

since the Holocaust also does that

they've turned it into a uh not they've

turned that anti-Semitism of the

Holocaust into a uh Spear of Western

white supremacy when you see France and

Germany now arguing that Israel can't be

doing a genocide because that's you know

that's only something that we did to

them horrible and to the problem of the

Arab Savages uh by their estimation in

the Middle East um who uh now bear the

brunt of the reparations that Germany

and European nations and the United

States should bear for by the way

turning away Jews who were fleeing the

Holocaust that no no no that goes to the

uh populations who can't necessarily

fight back resource-wise and then we'll

call them anti-semites and terrorists

and then here's the other thing oh what

do I want to do send Hamas an email no

no no you smug piece of that's not

what anyone is actually saying people

are saying that you should have gone in

if you I I understand that when October

7th happened that Israel wasn't going to

be like huh maybe we should re-evaluate

the apartheid and ethnic cleansing that

we're doing I understand they're a

western state they're going to respond

with Force they're going to go in and

try to kill people they could have gone

in in a special operation and gone after

Hamas they know exactly where every you

know uh where where they can go and try

to execute this operation they knew

where certain Hamas leaders are in qar

right now if they really want to go

Hamas they could have freaking struck

Qatar they're not even doing any of that

right now they're going after in Lebanon

um Syria striking everywhere right

that's not the point of this it was a

pre it was the opportunity for them to

do the genocide that they always wanted

okay so there were other Alternatives

not genocide not carpet bombing and it's

an insult to everybody's intelligence to

sit there and say that that's the only

way that you could have responded um

those hostages like the hostages have

only been released during the ceasefire

period there was plenty of Palestinians

locked up in Israeli prisons prior to

October 7th that could have been used

for uh trades but they don't want to do

that uh because they have been in

trouble for uh the Hannibal doctrine of

we don't actually want even soldiers

taking hostages because that's a problem

for us so let them die um which yeah go

ahead Brandon it's also just like wild

to your point that how often they will

repeat this line that the only way they

get hostages back is to bomb

indiscriminately uh they've killed more

hostages and they've saved yep

undoubtedly you know undoubtedly they

but like that's just such a Twist of

logic that you now see people repeating

like it makes any kind of sense and you

know it's just not how anyone has taught

to negotiate with like hostage takers

but you know now it's just become a show

of of force uh that is supposed to be

you know make the situation magically

better yeah and I just can't like the

way zionists have used anti-Semitism you

had the former I think it was Ambassador

um to Israel on Dave rubin's program a

few months ago saying oh yeah what you

guys need to do is close your border

exactly why Israel uh was created in the

first place is because Western countries

didn't want to take Jewish refugees

during the Holocaust uh rather actually

we have a better idea for you we've

always wanted to have an outpost in the

Middle East how about you go do that for

us um you know I think that stuff is is

is is pretty relevant well no I mean I

think failing to engage with the actual

like ideological underpinnings of the

Holocaust that were widespread in Europe

and also the United States at the time

that it happened you know it never just

it just never got any better because it

was all sort of concentrated in people's

minds as a unique sin of German of the

German state in the 1940s and 30s and I

guess 20s you know whatever you know

there was a failure to reckon with just

how much of that you know ideological

underpinning not just came from the

United States but it's still there and

still present in the way we do

things

yeah all right folks should we take a

call did we do 45 minutes on that uh

Israeli

spokesperson I think it was closer to 30

and I feel I feel badly um but man I

don't know I don't know when we're going

to when we're going to reach some sort

of I I think you know like I the people

are wondering that there's so many other

atrocities happening in the world what's

happening in the Congo seeing you know

why why not talk about that and that's

fair

um but I think for for one it's the

genocide that we're

funding uh Israel is the top recipient

of our talk of our of our foreign aid

and the military aid um and frankly it's

an outpost for our interest as match

just said so it should be viewed in that

way two it's the constant gaslighting it

is the constant gaslighting that

seemingly is UN Felding um and that I

think is just what what is so

infuriating about the whole thing

um although like to borrow from you know

nor McDonald about Bill Cosby when

someone said the hypocrisy was the worst

thing about him that's not the worst

thing it'd be down the list the gas

lighting is definitely down the list uh

after the genocide I do think the

relevance is even broader than

Palestinians though it's it's this is a

this is a test for a world um law and uh

institutions can it call a genocide

genocide or is genocide just something

that Western Powers will deploy if they

want to say agitate against China um or

or intervene in Kosovo or Ukraine like

it's just just when we're actually want

to do something that's when we'll call

it a genocide when we don't want to it's

like who knows man like these

definitions yes Sam from Ottawa says if

it's not a genocide in Palestine what is

it the rung below is that better does it

not inevitably lead to the next rung

yeah I mean it's it's the it's a it's a

it's definitely ethnic cleansing the

genocide I mean this is the thing is

like I I I am someone who supports a

more expansive version of genocide um

that would Encompass splitting out

Palestinians between different

populations in Gaza um the West Bank and

and you know Exiles even beyond that and

stuff like that um and inability to let

a people um reproduce themselves um

because I think that's uh in addition to

germ warfare and other sort of massacres

that's how the genocide of Native

Americans was uh conducted on this

continent um and and so like I I don't

just think you need to be killing 20,000

civilians uh in a few months to call it

a genocide but I do think like if the

world can't see like a a what's

basically a slow motion genocide turn

into a more acute I mean extermination

opportunity and ethnic opportunity for

ethnic cleansing like all these books

that have the pictures of the Naka 1948

and you see people on long lines of

people being moved we've we've dwarfed

those images yeah in the last few months

yep also surely the genocide convention

is also intended to try to prevent

ongoing genocides from getting to the

point in which they're like 98% of a

population in organ in a location are

just displaced or killed it seems like

you know a lot of what Israel is relying

on in this situation is people using

like a colloquial

understanding of what the word means to

like supplant like Common Sense which is

that like oh you can only call something

a genocide which every single person who

fits into this category has been killed

but we've never defined genocide that

way like it doesn't it doesn't make any

sense to Define there's a legal

definition of genocide and and and it

just

anyway