Clerk vs Next-Auth.js | It's not that simple...
Summary
TLDRThis video explores the decision-making process for implementing authentication in a SaaS application. It weighs the pros and cons of using a hosted provider like Clerk or Auth0 versus a self-hosted solution like Next.js Auth. The choice depends on the business model and user base: for simple B2C applications with few paying users, Next.js Auth is recommended to avoid high costs. However, for B2B applications with enterprise customers, a hosted provider is preferable due to the advanced features and reduced development time. The video also addresses the potential risks and costs associated with changing pricing models and the complexities of building and maintaining a custom authentication layer.
Takeaways
- 🤔 The choice between using a hosted SaaS provider for authentication or building your own with a library like Next.js is not straightforward and depends on the specific use case and business model.
- 🔒 For simple applications requiring basic authentication, using an open-source, self-hosted solution like Next.js is recommended to avoid the costs associated with hosted providers.
- 💰 Hosted providers like Clerk or Auth0 can be cost-prohibitive for applications where not all users pay for the service, as their pricing can be high and may not provide enough return on investment.
- 🏢 For B2B SaaS applications with enterprise customers, a hosted provider is often preferable due to the need for advanced features like SSO, MFA, and robust organization management that may be time-consuming or complex to build from scratch.
- 🛠 Building your own authentication layer with Next.js can be time-consuming, requiring the development of user interfaces, error handling, and complex logic that comes pre-built with hosted solutions.
- ⏱️ Implementing authentication with a hosted provider can be significantly faster, potentially taking as little as 15-20 minutes, compared to the hours or more required for a custom solution.
- 💡 The decision to use a hosted provider or build your own should consider the potential savings in development time and the costs associated with maintaining a custom solution.
- 📈 For B2B applications where most users are paying customers, the small fees charged by hosted providers may be negligible compared to the value they bring in terms of features and ease of use.
- 📊 The potential for unexpected price increases from hosted providers is a risk, and businesses should consider the impact of such changes on their cost structure.
- 🛑 If a hosted provider significantly raises their prices, businesses may need to consider migrating to a different provider or building their own solution, which involves a significant investment of time and resources.
- 📝 Compliance with regulations like GDPR is a consideration for both hosted and self-hosted solutions, and businesses must ensure they can meet these requirements regardless of the authentication method chosen.
Q & A
What is the main topic discussed in the video script?
-The main topic discussed in the video script is the decision-making process for choosing between using a hosted SaaS authentication provider or building your own authentication system using a library like NextAuth for a SaaS application.
What are the two options presented for implementing authentication in a SaaS application?
-The two options presented are using a hosted SaaS provider like Clerk or Auth0, or building your own authentication using an open-source library like NextAuth.
What factors should be considered when choosing between a hosted provider or building your own authentication system?
-Factors to consider include the complexity of the application, the business model (B2B vs B2C), the need for advanced features like SSO and MFA, the cost of the hosted service, and the potential for scalability and maintenance.
Why might a simple application with basic authentication needs be better off using NextAuth instead of a hosted provider?
-A simple application might benefit from using NextAuth because the cost of a hosted provider could be disproportionately high compared to the revenue generated by users, especially if not all users are paying customers.
What are some of the advanced features that might be needed for a B2B SaaS application?
-Advanced features for a B2B SaaS application might include Single Sign-On (SSO), Multi-Factor Authentication (MFA), and a robust organization layer for managing different user roles within an enterprise.
What is the potential downside of using a hosted authentication provider for a B2B SaaS application?
-The potential downside is the cost associated with using a hosted provider, which can increase significantly if the pricing model changes, and the time and effort required to migrate to a different provider or build your own system if needed.
Why is building your own authentication layer time-consuming and complex?
-Building your own authentication layer is time-consuming and complex because it requires developing and maintaining custom UI elements, handling form errors, implementing security measures, and ensuring compliance with regulations like GDPR.
What are some of the benefits of using a hosted authentication provider like Clerk or Auth0?
-Benefits include ease of implementation, automatic error handling, built-in security features, and the ability to quickly add advanced authentication features without extensive development work.
What is the importance of considering the cost per user when deciding between a hosted provider and building your own authentication system?
-The cost per user is important because it helps determine if the investment in a hosted provider is justified by the revenue generated by each user. It's a key factor in calculating the return on investment for the authentication solution.
How does the script suggest approaching the decision if a hosted provider significantly increases its prices?
-The script suggests considering migration to a different provider or building your own authentication system if the price increase is substantial and affects the business's bottom line.
What is the script's final recommendation for a B2B SaaS application where most users are paying customers?
-The script recommends using a hosted provider for a B2B SaaS application with paying customers, as the benefits in terms of time saved, ease of use, and advanced features usually outweigh the costs.
Outlines
🤔 Choosing Between Hosted and Self-Hosted Auth Solutions
This paragraph discusses the dilemma of selecting between a hosted or self-hosted authentication solution for a SAS application. It highlights that the decision is not straightforward and depends on various factors such as the business's use case, state, and application structure. The speaker suggests using Next.js for simple applications requiring basic authentication, as it avoids the costs associated with hosted providers like Clerk or Auth0. However, for B2B applications with enterprise customers, the paragraph leans towards using a hosted provider due to the need for advanced features like SSO and organization management, which are more complex to implement with self-hosted solutions.
🛠 Building vs. Using Hosted Auth for Complex Applications
The second paragraph delves into the complexities of building your own authentication layer versus using a hosted solution. It emphasizes the time-consuming and resource-intensive nature of creating custom UIs, handling form errors, and managing authentication logic with self-hosted options like Next.js. In contrast, hosted solutions such as Clerk, Auth0, and others offer ready-made sign-up pages and automatic error handling, significantly reducing the development time and effort. The speaker also touches on the potential risks of relying on hosted providers, such as sudden price increases, and the challenges of migrating to an alternative provider or building a custom solution from scratch.
💡 Deciding Factors for Auth Solution Based on Business Model
The final paragraph wraps up the discussion by summarizing the key considerations for choosing an authentication solution based on the business model. For B2C applications where not all users contribute revenue, Next.js is recommended for its simplicity and cost-effectiveness. Conversely, for B2B applications where users are likely to pay for the service, the paragraph advocates for hosted solutions despite the associated costs, due to the time and effort saved in development and maintenance. The speaker shares personal experience, noting the challenges of scaling a self-hosted authentication layer and the potential compliance issues that may arise with enterprise-level applications.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡SaaS application
💡Hosted SaaS provider
💡Next.js Auth
💡Basic authentication
💡SSO (Single Sign-On)
💡Enterprise customers
💡Authorization
💡Multi-factor authentication (MFA)
💡B2B SaaS
💡Cost
💡Regulation compliance
Highlights
When building a SAS application, the choice between a hosted SAS provider or a self-hosted solution like Next.js depends on the specific use case and business state.
For simple applications requiring basic authentication, using an open-source solution like Next.js is recommended over hosted providers due to cost-effectiveness.
Hosted providers such as Clerk or Auth0 may incur high costs that are not justified if not all users are paying for the service.
For B2B SaaS applications with enterprise customers, a hosted provider is advised to access advanced features like SSO and organization management.
Building your own authentication layer with Next.js can be time-consuming and complex, especially when compared to the ease of using hosted services.
Hosted services like Clerk or Auth0 provide ready-to-use features such as sign-up pages, error handling, and connection to authentication methods.
The decision to use a hosted provider should consider the potential cost implications and the value of time saved in development.
Enterprise customers expect a robust authentication system, which might be challenging to build and maintain with self-hosted solutions.
The potential for sudden price increases with hosted providers presents a risk that businesses need to evaluate.
Migration from one provider to another or building a custom solution can be a difficult decision, especially after significant price hikes.
The need for compliance with regulations like GDPR adds another layer of complexity to self-hosted authentication solutions.
B2C applications where most users do not pay for the service may benefit from the simplicity and lower costs of Next.js.
B2B applications with paying users can justify the use of hosted providers for the convenience and advanced features they offer.
The trade-off between saving on authentication costs and investing time and resources into building a custom solution must be carefully weighed.
Maintenance and error handling are ongoing considerations for businesses that choose to implement their own authentication layer.
The speaker's personal experience suggests that building a custom authentication layer for a growing business can be challenging and not as fun as expected.
The video aims to help viewers understand the pros and cons of both hosted and self-hosted authentication options to make an informed decision.
Transcripts
so let's imagine the following you're in
the position where you are building
currently a SAS application and now
you're at the step where you have to
implement off and now you have two
options either use a hosted um SAS
provider like for example Clerk or off
zero or work Os or you roll your own off
using a library like next off and now
the question comes which one should you
use and it's not an easy question to
answer since both um providers or both
options in that sense have Pros cons
caveats or you could say the answer is a
double-sided knife because there's no
white or wrong answer it depends on your
use case on your business State um how
your application is built Etc but after
this video you'll actually understand
what option is the right one for which
business use case so now let's roll the
video so let's talk about the use case
first of all so let's say you're
building a very simple application where
all you need is basic authentication
that means o off using for example
GitHub and then maybe also magic links
something like that and now what should
you use in that case so it's very simple
you don't need no account linking
Enterprise off um organizations you
don't need it all you need is basic off
and then I guess uh authorization using
your database um in that case you should
actually use next off forget about
anything that's hosted so in that sense
Clerk or zero work OS OCTA whatever you
uh know don't use it use next off use
something open source and uh selfhosted
why is that because if you're building
something so simple there's a pretty
high probability that not every user
that you onboard pays for your service
because if it's that case that where you
have for example 10,000 users and from
those 10,000 users maybe 10 50 100
people only pay for your service I would
actually say it's not uh very good to
use an hosted provider why is that well
an hosted provider like Clerk of zero or
work OS has of course a cost behind it
you pay to use the services which is
normal right and the problem is that
these prices can be quite high so if you
have an application where not every user
pays for your service it will be
actually not not good expense for you
because you pay way too much but get uh
not enough in which return for what you
pay but now let's take the following you
have a B2B SS and you have Enterprise
customers so for example you have Google
as your own customer imagine that in
that case forget next off just forget it
uh get it out of your mind forget it in
that case I would use a hosted s
provider so Clerk of zero or work OS why
is that well because you will actually
need features that you don't get using
next off or which you can get but have
to build on your own and which will take
a lot of time so if you have Enterprise
customers you for example need SSO you
can get that using next off but it will
be I don't know is it simple it's not
quite simple but you can do it but I
wouldn't suggest that also if you have
uh a B2B SS you'll actually have to need
to create organizations think about like
that you have a company right company
ABC this company has a CEO managing
director whatever and then you have Alo
the normal in quotations workers which
have normal roles right and the same is
also for your application if you have a
B2B application which is a multi-tenant
application for example and you have an
organization which you want to onboard
to your application you will have to
have a pretty good um organization layer
on your off layer which means if you're
on board a company a organization what
you have to do is a good authorization
system where the admin the CEO for for
example can actually choose other admins
and other members so what I mean with
that is you need a good authorization
layer in that sense um that not every
user which is in a organization can do
everything so you need for example
different roles for different users in
your organization you can do that using
next off it's doable I uh I did it
myself it's fine you can do it I
wouldn't do it actually because why
should you if you think about it you
have a B2B says in most cases that means
that every user that comes to your
application also pays for your
application and if that happens then the
question comes why should I even bother
building it uh on myself why should I
bother implementing MFA so multifactor
off which is not uh so easy next off why
should I bother uh creating this whole
organization layer um uh authorization
layer why should I Bor even actually um
do everything like that why should I
right uh right if every user that comes
and pays for my service it would just be
much uh simpler another thing is if you
actually opt in to use next off and
actually build your own off layer the
problem is that you actually also have
to build U the UI for that so in that
sense you have to build the sign up page
the login page the forget password page
you have to handle form errors uh you
have to handle the whole logic you have
to do a lot of things to make it work
the thing is with Clerk of zero and work
OSS is that you actually can use the
hosted um sign up pages and the nice
thing with that is everything is done
for you automatically error handling uh
checks for password um this whole
connection to O offs and magic links
everything is done for you and at the
end of the day is if you use for example
a hosted application you can make off
work in I don't know 15 minutes 20
minutes if you're not the fastest which
is also fine but if you use the next off
as your authentication layer my man you
will have to I don't know 12 hours 13 14
15 30 50 I don't know um how complex
your applications but the more complex
your application becomes the harder it
becomes uh to achieve this using a open-
source authentication layer that means
if it's something very simple and you
don't need anything uh which is complex
then don't bother using next uh uh clerk
any your host the provider but if you're
looking at actually creating something
complex with authorization uh
organizations multiactor off SSO I don't
know something that you really don't
want to build your on your own hey
forget next off use something hosted why
should you use something uh why should
you build it on your uh by yourself if
there's something like that but that's
if you think about it in a deaf uh mind
in a deaf environment I guess but let's
say you're a business owner what do you
do now because at the end of the day if
you use a host provider a host that says
like Clerk of zero work OS there's of
course a cost associated with it and for
example the problem is for example um I
think yesterday or the day before I
can't quite remember um of zero made a
Blog article where they said um that
they have changed their pricing to be
more accessible or some I don't know
marketing stuff like that at the end of
the day what they really did is increase
your prices by
300% again 3 0 Z 3 100% increase imagine
you pay $1,000 a month for off zero now
you pay $3,000 uh a month just from
today to Tomorrow there's such an
increase out of nowhere and now imagine
you have 10,000 users inside of your off
zero database what do you do now do you
just say yeah fine okay I will pay this
300% increase it is what it is or do you
say I migrate off and build all of this
nasty uh stuff uh by myself and well
that's hard question to answer and I
can't answer it for you it's not that
simple as said you have two options you
either migrate to a different provider
like clerk work Os or you go and build
it by yourself and now the thing is if
you build it by yourself you will have
to waste or not waste I guess but you
have to take a lot of hours to build
what you have using this hosted provider
you have to build authorization you have
to build um I guess this whole
multiactor off if you need it the
organization layer you have to build
build everything by yourself and it
takes a lot of time a lot of uh a lot of
money actually because you have to pay
your employees for that it's not that
simple but let me summarize it like that
if you have a B2B application so you
have a busines to business application
where each user or Mo or let's say
almost every user that you on board pays
for your service then just pay the fee I
mean God what is it 5 Cent 6 Cent per
user then just pay it if your user
brings in $100 a month and you have to
pay I don't know 10 cents a month to
your off provider then do it I mean the
headache that you will have from
building your own off layer or your own
Enterprise off layer is way bigger than
if you try to use an hosted provider and
don't even uh get me started on if you
actually become an Enterprise you'll
have even more problems using your own
off layer why is that because well you
have to actually also somehow achieve um
certain security risks right or not a
aieve them but prevent them and for that
you will have to actually get certified
etc etc you probably already saw that
always if you scroll down to the website
there's this whole gdpr or whatever that
is uh you have to be compliant to
certain regulation and the thing is you
can achieve that using next off you can
do that that's fine do you want to do
that that's the real question do you
really want to do that I don't know I
wouldn't so what I would say is if your
application is basic b2c not every user
brings in money or actually most users
don't bring any money and all you want
is actually just to authorize them then
just use next off forget it but let's
say you build a B2B s where every user
brings in money uh pays to use your
service then use clerk I mean really who
cares man this 5 cents 6 cents sure you
could save them using uh building your
own off layer but it's still a
double-sided knife because you think oh
yeah I can save that much money but in
the same case or in that but in the
still in the same time you actually have
to pay using a different method and
that's time building your own off layer
takes huge amounts of time you have to
actually maintain it you have to handle
errors it's not easy so if it's a B2B
says use something hosted it will save
you a lot of headaches I talk from
experience I have tried to build my own
authentication layer and scale it to a
bigger size it it wasn't fun I was will
tell it like that but um if you are
bullying something simple forget about
Clerk or anything like that but now I
hope I could actually help you and try
to understand the both options and what
pros and cons we have because at the end
of the day it's not an easy option to
choose and that's also not a right or
wrong option it is what it is you choose
what you choose and it will have Pros it
will have cons um so yeah I hope you
enjoyed this video and I hope I will see
you on the next video which will drop in
a few days so now bye
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