University of San Diego professor on applied mathematics and faith | Satyan Devadoss

Summary

Safi and Devdas, a professor of mathematics and computer science at the University of San Diego, explores the beauty of shapes and patterns in mathematics. He delves into how 'applied mathematics' has evolved, impacting various fields like encryption and data analysis. He also discusses the significance of topology in understanding complex data sets, such as identifying diabetes types. Devdas emphasizes the importance of not letting mathematics overshadow reality and the complexity of human experiences, advocating for a balanced appreciation of all disciplines and the physical world over mere data and quantification.

Takeaways

• 📚 Safi and Devdas is a professor of mathematics and computer science at the University of San Diego, focusing on the study of shapes and their applications.
• 🔍 Mathematics, to him, is about understanding patterns and structures in numbers, functions, and images.
• 🌐 The term 'applied mathematics' has evolved from its 20th-century meaning of aiding engineering and science to encompass all areas of mathematics in the 21st century.
• 🔑 Number theory, for example, has become crucial for data encryption and is widely used by organizations like the NSA.
• 🎰 The concepts of probability and chance are fundamental to prediction analysis in business, dealing with large volumes of data.
• 🧠 Topological data analysis, a field pioneered by Gunnar Carlsson, allows for understanding the shape of data in a fuzzy setting, which is beneficial for noisy real-world data.
• 🍺 An example of applied mathematics is discerning patterns in beer characteristics, which can be analyzed to create a 'family tree' of different beers.
• 👨‍🔬 Mathematics is not meant to overshadow reality but to partner with it, offering alternative perspectives and methods for understanding complex issues.
• 🌟 The speaker believes that all disciplines, from mathematics to the arts, are valuable and should be viewed as a collective tapestry of human knowledge.
• 🚀 The speaker is intrigued by the idea of what mathematics will be like in a perfect world, such as the new heaven and earth, and how it will continue to apply to a physical world.
• ✅ Art and mathematics can intersect to create physical representations of mathematical concepts, like the dodecahedron sculpture that was taken to Burning Man, symbolizing deeper questions about humanity and the universe.

Q & A

What is the primary focus of Safi and Devdas' work as a professor?

Safi and Devdas' work focuses on studying shape, including how it can be framed, measured, looked at, and understood.

How does Safi and Devdas define mathematics?

Safi and Devdas defines mathematics as being about making sense of patterns and structures of things, such as numbers, functions, and pictures.

What is the significance of the term 'applied mathematics' in the 21st century according to the professor?

In the 21st century, 'applied mathematics' is not limited to traditional subjects like differential equations or calculus. Instead, every mathematical idea can be considered applied because it can be used to solve real-world problems across various disciplines.

How does the professor relate mathematics to everyday activities like using a credit card?

The professor relates mathematics to everyday activities by explaining that mathematical concepts, such as number theory, are used in data encryption, which is involved when swiping a credit card.

What is the role of topological data analysis in understanding complex data?

Topological data analysis allows for understanding the overall shape of complex data in a fuzzy setting, which is helpful because most real-world data contains noise and imperfections.

How did Safi and Devdas apply mathematical concepts to the study of beer?

Safi and Devdas applied mathematical concepts to the study of beer by analyzing 15 to 25 characteristics of different beers to create a 'family tree' that shows how they are related to one another.

What is the professor's view on the relationship between mathematics and reality?

The professor believes that mathematics should partner with the world to provide a different perspective, rather than trying to trump or replace the reality of a situation.

Why does the professor caution against the over-reliance on quantification and data?

The professor cautions against over-reliance on quantification and data because it can trivialize complex human experiences and issues that cannot be easily distilled into numbers.

What does the professor believe attracts him to the Christian faith?

The professor is attracted to the Christian faith because it provides answers to questions about human existence, emotions, and relationships that science does not address.

How does the professor envision the role of mathematics in the new heaven and the new earth?

The professor envisions that mathematics will continue to be relevant in the new heaven and the new earth, as it will be part of a physical world that is an improved version of the current one.

What was the unique aspect of the sculpture created by Safi and Devdas and his team for Burning Man?

The sculpture was unique because it was shaped like a dodecahedron, had a mirrored interior, and could be unfolded and laid flat, reflecting both mathematical and cosmological concepts.

Outlines

00:00

📐 Mathematics and Its Practical Applications

Safi and Devdas, a professor of mathematics and computer science at the University of San Diego, discusses his passion for studying shapes and their applications in various fields. He explains that mathematics is about recognizing patterns and structures, which can be applied to numbers, functions, and images. He highlights the evolution of 'applied mathematics' from traditional engineering applications to a broader scope in the 21st century, where almost every mathematical concept finds practical use. He also mentions his work in topological data analysis, a field pioneered by Gunnar Carlson, which focuses on understanding the overall shape of data in a fuzzy setting, useful for handling noisy real-world data. An example of this is quickly identifying types of diabetes from patient data.

05:02

🍺 Beer Genetics and the Limitations of Mathematical Modeling

The speaker recounts a project with students where they collaborated with a brew master to understand the characteristics that define different types of beer. They analyzed data from 21 beers and created a 'family tree' to show how these beers are related. This exercise in applying mathematics to real-world problems is contrasted with the brew master's deep knowledge and experience. The speaker emphasizes that while mathematical models can provide new perspectives, they should not be seen as superior to practical knowledge. They also discuss societal perceptions of mathematicians as being highly intelligent and the dangers of overemphasizing the role of mathematics in understanding complex human experiences.

10:03

🌐 The Complexity of Human Experience and the Role of Art

The narrative shifts to the complexity of human experience, which the speaker argues cannot be fully captured by mathematical formulas or scientific data. They compare the simplicity of mathematical problems to the intricacies of human relationships and societal issues like race relations. The speaker also touches on the role of art in expressing the inexpressible and criticizes the obsession with quantification and data in modern society. They argue for a more holistic understanding of truth that includes non-quantifiable aspects of human existence.

15:04

🌟 Faith and the Intersection of Science and Theology

The speaker explores the intersection of faith and science, reflecting on how the Christian faith provides answers to questions about human existence and morality that science does not address. They discuss their personal journey of faith and how it is rooted in historical events rather than abstract philosophical concepts. The speaker also ponders the implications of their faith for their work in mathematics, questioning which mathematical concepts will persist in a future 'new heaven and new earth' and how their mathematical work can have a lasting impact.

20:05

🎨 Making Mathematics Physical Through Art

The speaker shares their desire to make mathematics physical and their collaboration with artists to achieve this. They describe a project that resulted in a two-ton sculpture shaped like a dodecahedron, which was displayed at Burning Man. The sculpture, with its mirrored interior, prompts visitors to contemplate their humanity and the relationship between technology and human identity. The speaker also discusses the mathematical and cosmological significance of the dodecahedron, linking it to unsolved problems in geometry and the potential shape of the universe. They conclude by advocating for a balanced appreciation of both the digital and physical worlds and the importance of human experiences over data and technology.

Keywords

💡Mathematics

Mathematics is the abstract science of number, quantity, and space, either as abstract concepts, or by embodying them in physical objects or forms. In the video, mathematics is portrayed as a tool to understand patterns and structures in the world, from prime numbers in encryption to shapes and angles in everyday objects. The speaker, a professor of mathematics, uses it to study and appreciate the beauty of shapes and their deeper complexities.

💡Applied Mathematics

Applied Mathematics involves the use of mathematical methods to solve real-world problems. The term 'applied' in the 20th century was often associated with practical applications in engineering and physics. However, in the 21st century, as mentioned in the video, every area of mathematics has become applied due to its relevance in various fields, including data encryption, prediction analysis, and quantum mechanics.

💡Topology

Topology is a branch of mathematics that deals with the properties of space that are preserved under continuous transformations, such as stretching or bending, but not tearing or gluing. The video describes topology as a way to understand the shape of things when precise measurements are not possible, like seeing the world without glasses. It's used in topological data analysis to understand the overall shape of data, which is often noisy and incomplete.

💡Topological Data Analysis

Topological Data Analysis (TDA) is a method in mathematics that helps to understand the shape of data. It's like looking at the data in a fuzzy way to get a general idea of its shape rather than precise measurements. In the video, TDA is used as an example of how mathematics can be applied to quickly diagnose medical conditions like diabetes by identifying patterns in data.

💡Patterns

Patterns in mathematics refer to regularity and repetition of numbers, shapes, or structures. The video emphasizes how mathematics helps in making sense of patterns, whether in numbers for encryption or in functions for engineering. Patterns are fundamental to understanding and predicting outcomes in various fields, including the study of beer characteristics mentioned in the script.

💡Beer Genetics

The term 'beer genetics' used in the video is a metaphorical way to describe the characteristics that define different types of beer. The speaker and his students worked with a brew master to identify around 20 characteristics common to all beers. By analyzing these characteristics, they created a 'family tree' of beers to understand how different beers are related, showcasing the application of mathematical tools in an unconventional field.

💡Humanities

Humanities are academic disciplines that study various aspects of human culture, including history, literature, and philosophy. In the video, the speaker discusses the importance of valuing the humanities alongside sciences, arguing against the idea that one is superior to the other. He emphasizes the complexity of human experiences and the limitations of quantifying human emotions and experiences.

💡Christian Faith

Christian Faith in the video is discussed as a belief system that provides answers to existential questions that science might not address. The speaker reflects on how his faith is attracted to the Christian narrative of history and its intersection with human life, rather than scientific explanations. It's presented as a complement to his work in mathematics, offering a different perspective on the human experience.

💡New Heaven and Earth

The concept of a 'new heaven and earth' comes from Christian eschatology, referring to a future, perfect state of existence after the current world ends. In the video, the speaker contemplates what mathematics will be like in this ideal state, suggesting that mathematical truths will persist but be understood in a more profound way, and that the physical world will be experienced as it was meant to be.

💡Sculpture

In the context of the video, a sculpture serves as a physical manifestation of mathematical concepts and a means to explore themes of humanity and existence. The speaker describes creating a dodecahedron-shaped sculpture for Burning Man, which not only represents complex mathematical and cosmological ideas but also provides a space for introspection about being human beyond the digital world.

Highlights

Mathematics is about making sense of patterns and structures.

Applied mathematics in the 21st century involves every aspect of math.

Mathematics is useful in encryption, engineering, and predicting business outcomes.

Topology, a branch of mathematics, helps understand the shape of complex data.

Professor Safi studies pictures and their mathematical properties.

Data analysis can quickly identify medical conditions like diabetes.

Mathematics can reveal patterns in beer characteristics, similar to genetic sequencing.

Mathematics is a tool to partner with the world, not to overshadow reality.

The complexity of human experience is more intricate than mathematical formulas.

Mathematics is not superior to other disciplines; all are valuable in understanding the world.

The spectrum of disciplines reflects the complexity of the questions they address.

Science and quantification are not the ultimate measures of truth in all aspects of life.

The Christian faith provides answers to questions about human existence and purpose.

Mathematics will persist in the new heaven and new earth as described by the Christian faith.

The physical world is essential to human experience and should be valued in academic pursuits.

Collaborating with artists helps make mathematics physical and tangible.

A dodecahedron sculpture represents both mathematical concepts and philosophical questions.

The shape of the universe may be related to the dodecahedron, an unsolved problem in geometry.

Mathematics can be a personal expression of faith without being a proof of God's existence.

The value of human experiences, like enjoying a cup of coffee, surpasses data and quantification.

Transcripts

my name is Safi and devdas I'm a

professor of mathematics and computer

science at the University of San Diego

[Music]

so I'm a math professor and my work

focuses around shape so I love to study

how how shape can be framed how shape

can be measured how shape can be looked

at or shape can be understood and you

know when you think of mathematics to me

mathematics is all about how do you make

sense of patterns and structures of

things so you can make patterns and

structures of numbers you get prime

numbers and the numbers used for

encryption and data you can make

patterns and structures the functions

like sine function and cosine function

useful for engineering and a thousand

other things or or for money useful for

transactions and or you can make

patterns and structures of pictures and

that's what I do I study pictures so

angles and triangles could be very

simpler things you might have learned

earlier but but even those really simple

things turned out to have really deep

complicated beautiful things as as we

get older so that's what I love now one

of the things I'm in love with is not

just mathematics my title actually is

professor of applied mathematics and

that word applied has has two meanings

there's the 20th century meaning and

20th century meaning is applications has

always been what Boeing would want you

know let's let's use mathematics for an

engineer to to build airplane design or

submarine structures or or build

buildings so mathematics has been

applied using the tools of sines and

cosines and functions for engineers and

scientists and physicists so Einstein

uses the mathematics and it's applied

math but you know this amazing shift has

happened in the 21st century in 21st

century applied mathematics is no longer

about subject it's not about

differential equations or calculus it

turns out every math you could ever

imagine is applied math so if you care

about numbers turns out that almost

everywhere that numbers are multiplied

together and factored into pieces is how

data is encrypted when you swipe your

Visa card so the National Security

Agency NSA they hire mostly math PhDs or

number theorists number theory turns out

to be useful for for people anywhere in

the world today if you care about issues

of chance and probability like how often

do I get heads or tail

and a simple coin toss or rolling dice

turns out that's the foundation of how

you do prediction analysis for business

you want to model these things because

you have so much data coming in that you

can't get anything 100% right

so now data is almost going to be

approximated you'd be happy to be 95%

sure 90% sure something's gonna work

because you have terabytes of data

coming to you per second so now all of a

sudden things that were known for

probability turns out to be applied if

you care about patterns of how molecules

are organized and the structures and

shapes of a rubik's cube for example

turns out that's the foundation for

quantum mechanic issues and foundations

for chemistry so terms that almost every

mathematical idea that you can think of

turns out to be applied even from number

theoretical stuff and and what I care

about is shape and a revolution happened

related recently to the kind of shape I

care about which is not geometric shape

which talks about spheres and angles but

topological shape and topology just

means take off your glasses if you take

your glasses off how does the world look

it looks fuzzy and then you roughly get

the idea their shape but you don't get

it perfectly and and it turns out

there's and at Stanford there's a

faculty named professor named Gunnar

Carlson who I worked with and he was one

of the founders of this field called

topological data analysis so what he

does is he looks at data and he takes up

his glasses and he sees the data

approximately in a fuzzy way and he's

able to tell you what the overall shape

of the data is in a fuzzy setting not on

a perfect angular measurement setting

but in a fuzzy setting and that helps a

lot because most of the data that we get

have noise in it all right no data

that's coming to us is perfect a lot of

people when they fill out their forms

and you're watching Netflix and you're

giving Netflix data if you're giving

data from Amazon or Apple you don't fill

out all the all the fields so they don't

know everything about you there's all

these holes missing and that that data

has noise because you might maybe fill

one or two things incorrectly so the

fact you could take off your glasses and

get a rough approximation of what's

really going on is beautiful so using

topological data analysis you could

immediately tell whether you're normal

or have type 1 or type 2 diabetes'

really quickly you can quickly see that

there are these three branches going on

you're gonna fit in one of those things

you don't need to know the exact

geometry but that rough topology is

really good so everything is applied

that's why I love it

you know so one thing that I did with my

students recently is I wanted to find

patterns and structures in beer so San

Diego where I'm at in my theory of San

Diego is really known for their for

their beer it's one of the number one

craft brewery markets in the world I

think they're about 160 different

Brewers here and so we went to one of

the oldest Brewers here it's the San

Diego Brewing Company and we talked to

the brew master and we said can you tell

us what makes a beer a beer instead of

the labels of Pilsner or IPA or or ales

what is it that makes beer special and

the brew master said actually you know

if you take any beer in the world if you

rip the label off you basically have

about 15 to 25 characteristics of what

makes a beer a beer including things

like things like original gravity final

gravity pounds of hops temperature that

goes in temperature coming out and he

gave me a list about 20 and he said any

beer in the world can be broken up into

these 20 pieces and they have different

weights

sometimes the alcohol content actually

matters a lot sometimes it doesn't

and so what we did was we took the data

of 21 different beers that they had they

gave me the data for each of their

pieces this is called basically the beer

genetics of what appears and we put it

in in some sense - like a gene

sequencing machine and it spit out a

family tree of how these 21 beers are

related to one another

and so to me that's how I think of

applying mathematics you take real world

problems real world interesting

questions that are out there and how

things can be related to one another may

be through the lens of biology and

genetics and then you use the

mathematical tools to extract that and

say here's something else you can do

with it now a word of warning for me is

that this genetic tree of how the beer

is are related to one another it is not

more powerful or more amazing than

anything the brew master already knows

so I want to be really clear that math

is not here to trump what the reality is

about it's just here to partner with the

world to talk with them about it it

might be a different way of framing

something that people haven't seen

before but to say that somehow math now

with this beer genetic tree is the

ultimate

with a capital T is something that's

very worrisome and II have to be careful

I think if you think about almost any

other discipline they struggle with

their own notions of truth and notions

of what it means to be right and math

just comes along and shares its

perspective you know one of the things

that found over the years when every

time I travel is people are are honored

to be with me because I'm a

mathematician somehow they think I'm

smarter than them because of the fact

that I have a math credential this is

really interesting to me if I'm in a

plane and somebody's sitting in the

middle and I'm sitting on one side of

them as a mathematician and you know the

world's greatest Nobel Laura poets who's

on the other side or or one of the most

amazing artists who exists in the world

today sitting on the other side people

usually it feels like turns to them and

say oh you're an artist it's great but

this is a mathematician you know he

really understands what it means to be

smart no matter how smart you are he

really gets it and they use smart like

with a capital S right you know somehow

I have the full truth with a capital T

in my hand and and I find that really

dangerous I think you know having grown

up in India there's a spectrum of how

smart somebody is and I thought it was

an Indian thing until I came to the

States and I realized it's the same

thing everywhere you know on one side as

a mathematician and then the next of

them are the physicists and the

biologists and the chemists and and then

over here the sort of a social scientist

right there science

you know economists psychology and and

then you get into historians and and

eventually you get into linguistic

scholars and languages and the way over

on the other side of the artists and

most students think oh I'm not a

scientist I don't think this way I'm not

the smart so I'm actually going to be on

the art side I think that spectrum is

universal but at the same time the

spectrum hides something it hides the

level of complexity I think to me the

mathematician is really productive and

it's really good and it has great output

is because she is dealing with something

that's not complicated

you know the fact that you have

something called the quadratic formula

means that a formula can answer whatever

you're thinking about I mean it's

right if I'm talking to my wife and I

realized that she's not happy with how I

acted the day before there's no wife

formula to plug in because to hang out

with another human to deal with them as

a person to love them to forgive them to

take care of them as a human is far more

complicated than an formula or an

equation so what do we do is math right

we just you take an idea beer

complicated as it could be about the

smell of a beer about the taste it would

be about the social construct of what it

means to be human and drink a beer and

we boil it down into about 20 variables

and then we say oh here's the family

tree of beer but that's a pathetically

silly slice of the complication of what

beer really is I think what happens is

you move down the spectrum is you're

dealing with things that get more and

more complicated and thus you can't say

that much about it a historian is

dealing with a far harder question than

a mathematician they can't answer it in

the easy way because the question is

harder right they can't they can't nail

it down as simple as we can because

there's no formula for it they have

their own tools of measuring truth and

their own tools of method measuring

smartness but but the thing they're

asking is a complicated thing and an

artist is actually trying to describe

things that can't even be expressed in

words in fact they need images to even

get to the kind of things that we can

speak in English and I'm at the physics

we can speak it in formulas so that's

triviality you know I always say that we

can put somebody on the moon because

putting somebody on the moon is easy we

can't solve race relations not because

the people who study race are not smart

but but studying race relations was

incredibly hard it's really hard to talk

about equality of men and women in the

world today and and me too movement

that's pushing ahead because those are

incredibly hard questions for us to

wrestle with and how do you bring

justice in the world today that people

are struggling with the currency in the

world today is science right is

quantification and data a friend of mine

studies black pastors in the south and

he's not a Christian he's not a believer

but he's been interviewing the the

transformation of the lives of these

black pastors in the south for about 20

years and he's a sociologist and he

wants to know what does it mean to be

wrestling with issues of race and faith

at the same time one of the biggest

narratives as a pastor is this Exodus

that God will one day set you free and

it really resonates with the

african-american community but what

happens if now the pastor of this church

is now driving a Lexus you know does

that mean that they've already achieved

it clearly that's not what the world

says so that's the kind of really deep

sophisticated in-depth question he's

dealing with but most of the journals

that he's submitting his work to keep

saying to him where's the data and he's

saying this is the data I mean what it

means to be a human is to talk to them

and to understand with them you can't

quantify and distill this into a bunch

of numbers that's trivia trivializing

the work so the world is obsessed with

truth based on data and and it's

dangerous because it's wrong that's the

simple stuff the thing is I think that

absolutely makes sense if you're in the

science world I mean you should be

judged right by data and of the sciences

but the problem is when you start

leaving the world and using the same set

of tools what one of my favorite people

is Richard Dawkins I like him because

he's truly passionate of how about what

he believes in and I'd rather have

somebody who's passionate and against

you know against faith or against God

that's great I'm glad he's putting

strips on the table but the reason I

struggle with him is because he's not

trained as a philosopher he's not

trained as a theologian he's trained as

a as a biologist as as an evolutionary

biologist he's brilliant at what he does

but you can't take those same set of

tools and say now I have enough tools to

answer any questions Stephen Hawking did

the same thing when he talked about

philosophy being dead and he said

philosophy is now dead well that

statement is a philosophical statement

so he's using philosophy to talk about

philosophy being dead and I mean he's a

brilliant cosmologists he's a brilliant

physicist one of the greatest who's ever

existed but to say that those weapons

and physics can now be used to shoot

down other arguments in history and in

science and in history and political

science and full of philosophy is as

dangerous and wrong I guess what

attracts me and what pulls me and makes

me think of the Christian faith is not

things from a scientific lens you know

if I think back to what

means to be a mathematician when I was

in undergrad or grad school I don't

remember any lectures from a professor

if I was amazing I had an amazing

professors but I remember oh my gosh

that lecture on triple integrals was

just incredible

I don't read any of that stuff I just

you know I usually remember things like

hey the the pizza party we had that

night or the night we played euchre or

the way the girls smelled next to me or

the dance like how am I getting I never

want to dance but you know you know you

know what I'm saying

but all of those things is what it means

to be humans is what attracts me and

gives me these memories so the reason

I'm attracted to the Christian faith is

not because of some scientific slam dunk

argument of course if there's a tension

if there's a huge tension between what

the Christian faith says and the way the

world is framed according to the

Christian perspective versus the

scientific data we have then yeah then

we're in trouble but I don't see that

tension at all in fact if I'm reading

through scripture or listening to how

it's been interpreted it's usually that

that the scripture is not really

interested in science it's not making

questions of science it's answering

questions of who we are why we're here

why do we feel anger when we watch a

movie like 12 years of slave you know

when we want justice to happen in this

world what does it mean to forgive what

does it mean to retaliate you know those

bigger questions what does it mean to

have a great relationship but it's mean

to enjoy food those are the kind of

questions that science doesn't answer

but the Christian faith does and most

faith to do the reason I'm attracted to

the Christian faith in particular is it

actually is rooted in history so unlike

a theoretical or an abstract

philosophical faith it actually says God

intersected the world in certain places

in certain times and here's how it

actually happened it's not God does this

and the world runs this way they

actually meet and because of that you

could actually measure the meeting you

can actually say well if Jesus lived

then here's what it should look like if

Jesus resurrected then here's what it

should look like and that actually makes

sense to me the fact I can actually

measure through historical lens as to

what's going on that's attractive the

question I started asking maybe five to

ten years ago in a very serious way

which had

echoes of it beforehand was what does it

mean to be human and if you start asking

that question I wanted to ask that

question through the lens of a

mathematician what does it mean to be

human as a mathematician and so the

Christian faith says actually that this

world though amazing and beautiful and

gorgeous and attractive is still broken

they're parts of it they just don't fit

and they're echoes of of glory in the

background that it's pointing to

something more amazing than what we have

right now and so that more amazing world

is the new heaven and the new earth when

things will all be set right so being a

mathematician I'm I got curious what

will math be like in the new heaven and

the new earth right like how much of

this math is gonna last you know because

you always want to make a lasting impact

than whatever you do and how much of the

math is gonna fade and if it's gonna

fade why am i spending time on that

stuff and if it's gonna last I'm gonna

spend a lot more energy there so you

know true with any friendships we have

right we have a thousand friends and out

of that we're gonna pour our energies

into just a few of them who become

really close friends because we want

those friends to last throughout our

lives we can turn to them in the worst

and the best of times and so I wanted to

know in mathematics what will last and I

came to the conclusion that everything

does that's the cool thing about math is

everything is gonna last the new world's

gonna take the mathematics we do and

you're gonna see it in a much better way

but more importantly though this new

world is going to be a physical world

just like this one so in other words

it's not the physical world maybe as

Buddhism or maybe Hinduism says is kind

of this temporary place where you can't

wait to get out of it and to become

disembodied and purely spirit it's

actually the physical world rocks it's

amazing it's in the new earth this new

heaven and the new earth where God and

his people are gonna be together it's a

place where the physical world is going

to be there except you're gonna see it

the way it was meant to be seen the

photograph you hold in your hand will

now become the real place instead of a

photograph of the Grand Canyon we're

gonna be at the Grand Canyon it's gonna

be amazing and so how can we make that

come to the world today how can we make

the future be like that in the world

today and so what I wanted to start

asking this like how do you make math

physical that's the question I really

wanted to ask if the new world's going

to be physical

math physical it turns out if you think

about the academic life academia is the

most ivory tower of every discipline

right you could be a plumber a carpenter

you could be a CEO you can be a data

analyst at least touching the keyboard

you know knock it away but an academic

is like sitting literally thinking

without actually interacting there's

this notion of just literally thinking

in the ivory tower about thoughts and

the most whitest of the white collar is

a mathematician because a chemist is

actually doing chemical things and and a

physicist doing physical things and a

linguist is thinking about literature

over time and the change of words but a

mathematician man we're just inner

thoughts these abstract ideas so what I

want is how do you make math physical

and I started working with artists over

the years because artists actually are

deeply embedded in physical things and I

as a mathematician who cares about shape

thought men who else but an artist whose

thought about physical things and images

to collaborate with so I started working

with artists that you know we've we've

done struggles with unsolved problems on

on spaces of trees and genetics we have

paintings that we did work with artists

in lots of different ways but but the

most recent one that is kind of exciting

is is a collaborator and I Diane Hoffa

she's another mathematician she and I

got together formed a team of faculty

and students and alum and community

members and we raised about $50,000 and

we built a two-ton sculpture that we

took to Burning Man and the sculpture is

remarkable for several things one the

outside of the sculpture is shaped like

a dodecahedron but the hinges of the

pentagonal hinge is open and you can

actually get in and the outside looks

like the matrix icon icon agraphia where

that where the lights kind of look like

these matrix flow which ask the question

of what does it mean to be human in

terms of a computer controlling you and

the inside once you go inside the

dodecahedron it's lined with about

10-foot tall mirrors it's a mirrored

room of a dodecahedron and it's

basically reflecting you all around so

now all of a sudden you're absolutely

human you're not this outside

environment and it asked the question

now that you've kind of gone past

technology what does it mean to be human

in the middle of all this so that's the

that's the artistic framework of how we

thought of it but in terms of the object

itself it turns out that a mere

dodecahedron is a really close example

of what our current shape of our

universe could be you know the shape of

the earth is a sphere but what's the

shape of the universe it turns out that

the plonker a dodecahedral sphere which

is a version of the dodecahedron where

he can kind of pass through walls and do

these cool tricks then the mirror

dodecahedron comes comes to scratch that

itch of what the shape of our universe

could be so that's really cool it's an

unsolved problem of what the universe is

and also the there's an unsolved math

problem which is can you take any

polyhedron and cut along the edges and

unfold and lay it flat so albert durer

500 years old

500 years ago asked this question is it

true that any polyhedron can be laid

laid flat by cutting along the edges and

it's still an unsolved problem today

it's the biggest unsolved problem in

geometry that I know of and so it turns

out the dodecahedron actually unfolds

that you can get in just like the way

dirt imagined and then you could fold

back in and get into the shape of this

universe so deals with these unsolved

questions of mathematics unsolved

questions of physics and cosmology and

yet it's a physical object that people

can interact with and think about what

it means to be human in terms of math as

an evidence for my faith I don't see it

so in other words I could look at a

beautiful theorem and I can say lots of

gorgeous theorem it could be an absolute

atheist not believe in anything beyond

the world that I see in some sense and

say this is pretty right the Gauss Bonet

theorem is one of the prettiest limbs in

the world period or I can believe that

there's a creator out there who designed

the world and has partnered with us to

create with him and I could also look at

the gospel in a theorem and say this is

pretty this is gorgeous and I could just

add the words Wow thank God

that he thought of these beautiful

things and has allowed me to see his

creation so either way Gauss Bonet is

Gauss Bonet and so this is just this

external viewpoint of how I view the

world looking at mathematics but the

math itself isn't I don't see it as a

pointer to God in other words it is a

pointer to God but it's not enough to

convince me it's not enough to push my

chips into the bucket of faith just

because mathematics makes sense

not for me if I can have one dream it

would be two pieces of thread that would

fit together nicely and the first thread

is to say we should be careful with the

Enlightenment which shatters our

disciplines into pieces and so some

might be better than others to say that

math is better than the humanities which

could be better than the arts I think we

should value all of them and put her

back as this tapestry and the second

part is to push back not just against

the Enlightenment but against the

Industrial Revolution to say that this

mass production of things makes us

better humans I think we have to be

really careful of what it means to live

in a world that's physical that as we

think more about the digital world that

we become disembody we forget what is

important to smell and touch and we keep

thinking data and the prolific ation and

the quantification of data is valuable

it is but not compared to being human a

great cup of coffee is better than a

thousand data analysts and their code

that they can write a great conversation

over a good meal made at home is more

remarkable than climbing the highest

tower you could imagine in New York so

as long as we value what it means to

live a blue-collar life with those who

use their hands well and honor them as

much as those who might honor the white

collar world and at the same time honor

these different disciplines I'd love it

you