Elizabeth Holmes exposed: The $9 billion medical ‘miracle’ that never existed | 60 Minutes Australia
Summary
TLDRElizabeth Holmes, once hailed as a revolutionary in the medical field, claimed to have invented a miniaturized blood testing device at 19, promising to detect serious diseases like cancer early. Her company, Theranos, attracted high-profile investors, making her Silicon Valley's first self-made female billionaire. However, the technology was a fraud, putting patients' lives at risk and leading to the downfall of her $9 billion empire. Holmes now faces a criminal trial for defrauding investors, patients, and doctors, with potential jail time of up to 20 years.
Takeaways
- 🚀 Elizabeth Holmes founded Theranos at the age of 19 with the promise of a revolutionary blood testing device that could detect diseases like cancer with a single drop of blood.
- 💡 The invention was touted as a preventative healthcare breakthrough, aiming to make blood tests accessible and affordable through devices available at supermarkets and pharmacies.
- 🌟 High-profile investors, attracted by the promise of revolutionizing healthcare and Holmes' charisma, poured nearly a billion dollars into Theranos, making Holmes the first self-made female billionaire in Silicon Valley.
- 🔍 The reality behind the scenes was that the Theranos technology was non-existent and the company was using modified traditional blood analyzers, leading to inaccurate and potentially dangerous test results.
- 🗣️ Whistleblowers, including former employees, exposed the truth about Theranos' faulty technology, risking their careers to alert regulators and the public about the health risks involved.
- 📉 The downfall of Theranos was triggered by investigative journalism, particularly by John Carreyrou from The Wall Street Journal, who uncovered the company's fraudulent activities.
- 💔 The consequences of Theranos' fraudulent operations were severe, with patients receiving false test results that could have led to misdiagnoses and inappropriate treatments.
- 🏥 Despite the hype, Theranos' technology was never validated scientifically, and the company's board, filled with high-profile figures, failed to provide adequate oversight.
- 📉 The company's value plummeted from a peak of $9 billion to essentially zero, and Theranos was forced to shut down its laboratories by regulators.
- 🔑 Elizabeth Holmes and her former COO, Sunny Balwani, are facing criminal charges for defrauding investors, patients, and doctors, with potential prison sentences of up to 20 years if convicted.
Q & A
What was Elizabeth Holmes' claim to fame at the age of 19?
-Elizabeth Holmes claimed to have invented a miniaturized machine that could map our health with a single drop of blood, promising the early detection and prevention of serious diseases like cancer.
What was the allure of Theranos for investors and the public?
-Theranos promised a revolutionary blood testing device that could run hundreds of tests with a single finger prick, offering faster, cheaper, and more accessible health diagnostics, which attracted high-profile investors and made Holmes a billionaire.
How did Elizabeth Holmes position herself in the tech industry?
-Holmes was portrayed as a visionary entrepreneur, often compared to Steve Jobs, and was celebrated as Silicon Valley's first self-made female billionaire, wearing black turtlenecks and selling a narrative of innovation and empowerment.
What were the actual capabilities of the Theranos technology?
-The technology was a fraud; the so-called revolutionary device did not work as claimed. Theranos was secretly using traditional blood analyzers and diluting finger-prick blood samples, leading to unreliable and potentially dangerous test results.
What role did the board of Theranos play in the company's rise?
-The board of Theranos included high-profile figures like former U.S. cabinet secretaries and military officials, which lent credibility to the company and helped attract investors, despite having no direct expertise in medical advancements.
How did the media and public figures contribute to the Theranos hype?
-Media and public figures contributed to the Theranos hype by celebrating Elizabeth Holmes as a visionary and a new icon in the tech industry, often focusing on her image as a young, female entrepreneur rather than the actual scientific merits of her claims.
What were the consequences of Theranos' fraudulent activities for patients?
-The fraudulent activities put patients' health at serious risk, as they received inaccurate blood test results that could lead to wrong diagnoses, unnecessary treatments, or failure to detect actual diseases.
What actions were taken by whistleblowers to expose Theranos?
-Whistleblowers, including former employees, alerted regulators and the media about the inaccuracies and deceptions within Theranos, leading to investigations and the eventual downfall of the company.
What legal actions have been taken against Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos?
-Theranos was shut down by regulators, and Elizabeth Holmes and her ex-boyfriend Sunny Balwani face criminal charges for defrauding investors, patients, and doctors, with potential jail sentences of up to 20 years if convicted.
How has the Theranos scandal impacted the perception of Silicon Valley's culture?
-The scandal has highlighted the culture of hype and exaggeration in Silicon Valley, where the pursuit of billion-dollar startups can overshadow due diligence and the importance of verifying technological claims before investing.
Outlines
🩺 Elizabeth Holmes and the Theranos Scandal
Elizabeth Holmes, once lauded as a revolutionary in the medical field, promised a device that could detect serious diseases like cancer with a single drop of blood. At 19, she founded Theranos, attracting high-profile investors and becoming Silicon Valley's first self-made female billionaire. However, it was revealed that her invention was fraudulent and put patients' lives at risk. The narrative captures the rise and fall of Holmes, from her initial promise to the eventual unmasking of her deception, which could lead to a 20-year prison sentence if convicted.
🚀 The Theranos Dream and Its Demise
The second paragraph delves into the 'unicorn boom' of 2015, where Theranos was seen as the next big thing in Silicon Valley. It highlights how Elizabeth Holmes captivated investors and the public with her vision of preventive healthcare through a miniaturized blood testing device. The narrative also introduces Erica Chung, a science graduate who joined Theranos but was shocked to discover that the revolutionary device was non-existent and that the company was using a faulty prototype, putting public health at risk.
🏛️ The All-Star Board and Investor Deception
This section discusses how Elizabeth Holmes assembled an impressive board of high-profile figures, including former U.S. cabinet secretaries and military officials, to lend credibility to Theranos. It also touches on the substantial investments made by individuals like Rupert Murdoch, who saw potential in the company despite the lack of evidence supporting its claims. The narrative critiques the Silicon Valley culture that allowed Holmes to deceive investors and the public.
🔬 The Infeasibility of Theranos' Technology
The fourth paragraph focuses on the scientific implausibility of Theranos' technology. It features medical professionals who were skeptical of Holmes' claims from the start, given the complexity of condensing an entire pathology lab into a small device. The narrative also includes accounts of patients who received misleading test results, highlighting the potential harm caused by Theranos' unreliable technology.
📉 The Downfall of Theranos and Its Consequences
This section details the unraveling of the Theranos myth as the company's fraudulent practices were exposed. It discusses the use of traditional blood analyzers, the dilution of blood samples, and the subsequent inaccuracy of test results. The narrative also touches on the regulatory actions against Theranos, including the closure of its laboratories and the ban on medical testing, leading to the company's devaluation from a $9 billion valuation to zero.
⚖️ Legal Repercussions and the Theranos Legacy
The final paragraph outlines the legal consequences faced by Elizabeth Holmes and her former boyfriend, Sunny Balwani, who are now facing a criminal trial for defrauding investors, patients, and doctors. It also reflects on the bravery of whistleblowers like Erica Chung, whose testimonies were crucial in exposing the Theranos fraud. The narrative concludes with the impact of the scandal on Silicon Valley and the broader implications for the healthcare industry.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Theranos
💡Elizabeth Holmes
💡Fraud
💡Blood Testing
💡Silicon Valley
💡Investors
💡Whistleblowers
💡Regulators
💡Trial
💡Health Technology
Highlights
Elizabeth Holmes claimed to have invented a miniaturized machine that could map our health with a single drop of blood.
Her company, Theranos, attracted high-profile investors and made Holmes Silicon Valley's first self-made female billionaire.
Theranos' technology promised to prevent serious diseases like cancer before they happened.
The miniaturized testing device was supposed to deliver faster, cheaper, and more reliable blood test results.
Despite the hype, the technology was later exposed as an invention that didn't work.
Elizabeth Holmes is accused of being a fraudster who risked people's lives and faces up to 20 years in jail if convicted.
Theranos' technology was supposed to enable frequent blood tests to build personal health profiles.
Whistleblowers exposed that Theranos was using a jerry-rigged version of the machine, producing false or misleading results.
Investigative journalist John Carreyrou from the Wall Street Journal was instrumental in exposing the Theranos fraud.
Theranos' board included high-profile figures like George Shultz and Henry Kissinger, adding credibility to the company.
Investors in Theranos lost nearly a billion dollars when the company's value plummeted.
Theranos was secretly using traditional blood analyzers and diluting blood samples, leading to unreliable results.
The company's downfall was due to massive fraud that put patients in serious jeopardy.
Elizabeth Holmes and her ex-boyfriend Sunny Balwani face a criminal trial for defrauding investors, patients, and doctors.
Theranos was once valued at nine billion dollars but is now worth zero after the fraud was exposed.
Whistleblowers like Erica Chung played a crucial role in uncovering the truth about Theranos.
The story of Theranos serves as a commentary on Silicon Valley's culture of hype and exaggeration.
Transcripts
elizabeth holmes promised the world a
medical revolution
at 19 she claimed to have invented a
miniaturized machine that with a single
drop of blood could map our health
her boast was serious diseases like
cancer would be prevented before they
happened
and it was not only a wow moment for
patients
high-profile investors poured a fortune
into elizabeth holmes company theranos
their money guaranteed she became
silicon valley's first self-made female
billionaire
but her invention was an invention it
didn't work
elizabeth holmes is no visionary she's a
fraudster who's risked people's lives
and if convicted faces 20 years
it's finding what you're born to do
when you really give everything to that
then you can realize great things
holmes was making the greatest promise
of all that she could save lives through
a revolutionary blood testing device she
had created
and which she would make available to
all through supermarkets and pharmacies
theranose
means being able to see
the onset of disease
in time to be able to do something about
it
i'd like to welcome elizabeth holmes the
real treat the incredible elizabeth
holmes
[Music]
california's silicon valley and some of
the richest people in the world bought
the dream there are people in this world
who revolutionize our lives coco chanel
steve jobs bill gates walt disney and
elizabeth holmes mark my words
turning theranos into a staggering 9
billion juggernaut and making homes the
tech valley's first self-made female
billionaire
you founded this company 12 years ago
right tell them how old you were i was
19.
celebrity commentators and cashed up
investors couldn't get enough of this
new kid on the block in silicon valley
she was the new darling and a lot of
that was because she was a woman
entrepreneur which is a very popular
thing it's been a man's world you know
for so long
she would wear black turtlenecks like
steve jobs
and sold her little tail
and everybody bought it for a while
the revolution promised by elizabeth
holmes was to put preventative health
care at our fingertips quite literally
all it would take would be one tiny drop
of blood from a finger prick
from which to run hundreds of blood
tests using a groundbreaking
miniaturized testing device which would
deliver more reliable faster and cheaper
results
people don't like big needles being
stuck into their arm yeah
part of it you're one of those people
right deeply so
elizabeth's machine would wipe out the
traditional way of doing things
larger volumes of blood drawn from the
arm by big needles and costly and
time-consuming lab analysis
the mission was to enable everyone to
get blood tests as frequently as once a
month to build a personal health profile
and to catch diseases like cancer at
their earliest people don't even know
that they have
a basic human right to be able to get
access to
information about themselves
and their own bodies that can
change their lives
but as whistleblowers would expose the
elizabeth holmes revolution turned out
to be an extraordinary fraud
a lie that put lives in jeopardy were
you ever asked to falsify data or
destroy data oh just just get rid of
these tests that you've run wiped out
nearly a billion dollars of investors
money there was no money to be had it
all just evaporated any comment at all
to the investors and may well end with
homes behind bars for up to 20 years
come her fraud trial later this month
as far as please raise your right hand
do you swear to tell the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth i do how
would you describe the rise and rise and
then the fall of elizabeth holmes well i
think it is a commentary on silicon
valley's culture there's so much hyping
so much exaggerating in this culture
that you know young entrepreneurs
are
basically bred to to behave this way
and as investigative journalist john
carraroo found there were plenty of
people in the room willing to drink the
kool-aid all hoping to crack the unicorn
club the billion dollar startups
emerging in silicon valley at the time
this was the unicorn boom
and this was 2015 and
things were getting really frothy in
silicon valley and uh people didn't want
to miss the next facebook and a lot of
people wanted it to get on board this
next rocket to uh to riches when
she first interviewed me i have to say i
was a bit starstruck
science graduate erica chung was not out
to get rich she just wanted a job
and theranos with ernest elizabeth
holmes at the helm was the dream pick
i was really enthusiastic as sort of a
young scientist to
to work for a company that seemed to
have a compelling vision and
a strong leader who seemed to back it as
well
[Music]
but erica was shocked to find the
theranos dream was in fact a fairy tale
peddled by holmes and chief operating
officer ramesh sunny balwani elizabeth's
boyfriend at the time
for all the excitement the little black
box simply did not work
it could not do what the pair claimed
the reality of working at theranos was
that
a lot of the things that were being said
about the company were not actually what
was going on behind closed doors this
new revolutionary device it wasn't
actually
in existence it hadn't quite been built
yet worse they were using a jerry-rigged
version of the machine to run patients
blood tests
the results were often false or
misleading but this too was hidden from
an unsuspecting public despite the
significant health risks
i just wanted people to know that they
were leveraging this faulty device to
test on patients and that needed to be
stopped
rumors of theranos bad practice were
circulating
but it was journalist john kariu from
the wall street journal who would be the
first to start investigating after a
tip-off from a skeptical pathologist
things you know began to come into focus
for me and and i realized that you know
this was not just a a
business fraud and a corporate fraud but
potentially a fraud that had big
implications for the public health and
so i thought well
this is a big story for all the hope and
hype elizabeth holmes was now accused of
being a fake but as it would become
clear the consequences of her fraud were
real and dangerous
this is inexcusable now and forever
the remarkable story of healthcare
startup company theranos and its founder
elizabeth holmes starts at stanford
university in 2003.
this used to be my advisor's office
we got in
[Music]
at just 19 and after just two semesters
studying chemical engineering
holmes dropped out of university to
become a medical technology entrepreneur
another few
classes
in chemical engineering was not
necessary for what i wanted to do
one of the first to hear her future
business plans was stanford university
professor of medicine dr phyllis gardner
unlike most who encountered homes dr
gardner was not impressed
did elizabeth holmes always have big
dreams in your opinion
absolutely
her ambition was over the top
and unfortunately the person who twice
introduced her to me said she's just
brilliant and she's brilliant and when
you're surrounded by nobel laureates you
take that with a grain of salt
a boulder of salt
she had no knowledge of medicine and a
rudimentary knowledge of engineering and
she was 19.
and she really didn't want any expertise
she thought she knew at all
well you don't at 19 i'm sorry
but right from the start elizabeth
holmes knew the power of pr
i believe
the individual
is the answer
to the challenges of health care
she didn't bother proving her so-called
groundbreaking blood testing device
could do all she promised through peer
reviews or releasing extensive data
let's take these tests and
make them accessible
instead she gathered a war council to
her board reveling in their fame and
credibility so it includes three former
u.s cabinet secretaries two former u.s
senators a retired navy admiral and a
retired marine corps general including
george schultz henry kissinger how
did you make that happen
the board was george schultz
jim mattis henry kissinger and a bunch
of four star generals and someone said
this is like a board that's going to
take over the world
and uh but what does it have to do with
medical advancements nothing
and so
everyone was duped silicon valley really
had egg on its face
over this thing
but initially like so many small time
investor eileen lepro was impressed
after she was advised to sink a
hard-earned 100 000
into
was there something about the nature of
what elizabeth holmes was hoping to do
promising to do that attracted you to
this type of investment was there
anything altruistic about it not for me
i was looking to make money but i worked
for a venture capitalist at the time and
um
he
said it would be
equivalent to apple
and to get as many shares as i could
no matter there was no evidence the
money flowing into theranos was huge
almost a billion dollars
at one time rupert murdoch was the
single biggest investor
buying 125 million dollars worth of
shares
coincidentally as the proprietor of the
wall street journal he was also
investigative journalist john kararu's
boss at the time kararu exposed holmes's
spin as captioning not
available and mostly he's been right uh
as for the other investors certainly you
know
they should have done more due diligence
i think it was a deliberate choice of
elizabeth's
to focus on uh what i would call
uncharitably the dumb money
the uh billionaires and their family
offices as opposed to the
uh sophisticated silicon valley venture
funds who i don't think they would have
fallen for the same lies what do you
think of the investors who lined up to
to give her nearly a billion dollars
worth of money older white men
right
i'm telling you i've said it brains go
on south they weren't thinking with
their brains it's what you're saying
uh-huh
[Laughter]
i don't know and they believed her and
she could be charming
she could be i'm sure it just didn't
charm me but she could be charming to
older men
giving people the right to obtain a
laboratory test
will by definition
begin the process of enabling them to
engage
in their health it's homes you are
magnificent
with elizabeth's charm offensive in full
flight results back in the lab were
going from bad to worse according to
former lab associate erica chung they
were producing really
wildly
inaccurate and imprecise results on a
consistent basis across many different
types of blood tests
you know tests like
hepatitis c
or your thyroid test or test that would
be predictive of cancer it's telling us
very clearly we need to stop testing
patients every person should have the
ability to get that type of test but
elizabeth was not listening desperate
for her technology to catch up with her
vision your health is really important
to us as a kid of all those taken in by
the theranosmania
it would be patients who had the most to
lose because nothing is more important
than the health of those you love
it was just a big fraud
and if you can perpetrate a fraud smile
about it go to white house dinners
that to me is just no conscience
this notion that she was faking it until
she could make it
do you think that she ever believed
herself
in what she could do possibly
probably i mean it's almost like in
another
fantasy world
an egoism that i can't describe
i don't have that i
i doubt you have that
fake it till you make it excuse me on
patience
i don't think so
what is your view of that that they're
happy to to go live
with a system that's still being tested
and is actually failing yeah it's
unconscionable it's unethical
it's immoral as you know all the words
you can think about to describe that
and in australia why the elizabeth
holmes miniature black box was never
going to work she could never do what
she claimed she could do
founder and ceo of startup company
theranos elizabeth holmes was promising
to make possible the impossible in the
name of preventative medicine
the issue comes that she tried to
essentially take an entire pathology lab
and squish it into a little black box
and promised to be able to do all those
tests all the time for people
and
it takes years and years to develop a
single one of those tests up to the
standard where it can be accurate so it
was
ambitious doesn't quite capture it but
it was incredibly ambitious
medical scientist dr darren saunders
from sydney university has keenly
followed the rise of elizabeth holmes
and her promise that this mini lab could
run hundreds of blood tests of just one
drop of blood
his expertise in the field made him
incredulous right from the start
over the last 11 years we've
reinvented
the traditional laboratory
infrastructure it's quite a weird thing
to watch happen because you feel like
shouting the emperor's not wearing any
clothes right and as a scientist it was
i think frustrating is the word i'd use
incredibly frustrating because you felt
like taking these people aside and going
look there's nothing going on here why
are you spending so much money on
something that there's there's no proof
that it exists
that was the phrase i always used it was
exactly that the emperor has no clothes
and
that is the perfect
metaphor for what it was like
across the world dr phyllis gardner was
equally disturbed
as a professor at stanford university
she knew elizabeth holmes as a student
there up until that point the way that
they had had to draw
before she famously dropped out and
acquired the steve jobs attire i'm so
dehumanizing that
um
it's an incredibly emotional process so
and before her voice changed
well it's wonderful to be here
i started this company because
what about the deep voice did you have
the deep voice when you were dealing
with no i was shocked when i heard a
voice
because i didn't matter before
i certainly that is a voice you don't
forget
in a woman
oh
[Music]
hello
yes
the rate to protect
the health
and well-being carefully crafted or
otherwise corporations were lining up to
embrace elizabeth holmes
her success was sealed when in 2013
in a multi-million dollar deal theranos
was launched in pharmacy chain walgreens
we have
an operational plan that will allow us
to become within
five miles of every person's home
through the walgreens that we've opened
and are continuing to open nationally
it was all about access and ease
customers could get an in-store blood
test off a simple finger prick which
would cost next to nothing
they'd even get their results back
within four hours
that was the promise
the truth was another matter according
to former theranos lab associate erica
chong
you know this thing that was supposed to
be five would all even all of a sudden
show up to be 60 and then you would run
it and it would show up to be you know
four and it was just the degree of inner
accuracy was just way too high
to be acceptable to start running on on
patients so i got my thera nose test
done on like 29th of july and then 31st
of july i got
a test done by another lab
and it was different
unaware of the wildly unreliable results
pallav schader himself a
physician-turned-medical technology
entrepreneur
went to walgreens for a theranos blood
test
the results were surprisingly bad for
this health-conscious medico
they showed he was pre-diabetic
luckily pallav's own doctor was
suspicious of the diagnosis and ordered
another blood test from another lab
that was the moment when i felt cheated
because i
there was a little bit of a pride hurt
because i'm from the industry
if you had not got a second opinion a
second test what course of action would
you have taken at age
35 i would have been
started on anti-diabetic medication
and
no medication is
it comes without side effects so
i
i
i get emotional thinking about
how
big a deal it was for me if you followed
the theronos
model
you would have been on medication for a
disease you don't have yes
absolutely
this is inexcusable
now and forever
was it a fact that there were illnesses
that might not have been picked up that
the people who might have been suffering
from
life-threatening diseases and they just
didn't know it because they got a false
result yeah the devices were so
unreliable that you really couldn't
trust it with any test
the groundbreaking theranos technology
was a charade
instead theranos was secretly using
traditional commercially available blood
analyzers
because those machines require larger
amounts of blood to run their tests
staff were ordered to dilute the small
blood samples collected by finger prick
rendering those results unsafe
they were doing the tests on standard
equipment and they were diluting the
blood which
invalidates a lot of the results
so
i knew there was fraud going on and i
from very early on
but still the marketing myth continued
and you make a decision to do something
you do it and that's it a previously
non-existent lab was created filled with
as many of the black boxes the company
could find
then vice president joe biden was
invited to inspect this is sort of the
laboratory of the future unaware the
devices didn't work and that he along
with the world was being conned
to learn that she created a fake lab
to
show joe biden i mean what an audacious
act of deception well she was audacious
i would grant you that
and everything she did i do think
there's some
this is my opinion that there's some
sociopathy involved
and the ability to
lie
and
without caring is not normal
from my perspective
as a medical doctor she was trying
uh to uh over promise and then hope that
her engineers and her biochemists would
catch up
and that when they eventually did and
that her machine worked no one would be
the wiser the problem is she was nowhere
near already
elizabeth holmes was revered as the
superwoman scientist come to rescue and
revolutionize the u.s health system
but the true heroes of the theronos tale
are the courageous whistleblowers who
helped investigative journalist john
kararu from the wall street journal
exposed the sham
of their testimonies he went on to write
the award-winning bad blood and is
hosting a podcast called bad blood the
final chapter
these are people who wanted to do good
these are people who couldn't sleep at
night because they were worried that
patients were relying on on false
results right did that strike you as
well they couldn't in good conscience
continue uh
to not say anything they felt the need
to speak up
and they felt that lives were in danger
and that the longer this went on
the worse it would get
erica chung was one such hero
when her concerns were ignored by
theranos she left in disgust but still
feared for its customers
erica alerted regulators to what was
going on behind closed doors you were
being extraordinarily brave yes you
clearly felt compelled to get someone
else's
even though it was scary and it was
nerve-wracking and at that time
theranose was
at least threatening to sue me and they
were following me to sort of intimidate
me and to not speak up against them
it's just that they needed to stop doing
this thing right they needed to stop
testing on patients
and that the truth needed to be
uncovered
this is what happens when you work to
change things and
first they think you're crazy then they
fight you and then all of a sudden you
change the world
elizabeth holmes came out fighting but
regulators acted against her
closing down theranos laboratories and
banning medical testing after they found
massive fraud that put patients in
serious jeopardy
the company once valued at nine billion
dollars was now worth zero
and that was good right like the mission
was finally accomplished by that point i
was able to
finally sleep at night and and realize
that
you know my my work was done
in further legal action elizabeth and
ex-boyfriend sunny balwani are now in
the midst of a delayed criminal trial
for defrauding investors patients and
doctors and could be jailed for up to 20
years if convicted
holmes trial has been pushed back to the
end of this month
first by covert and then news she was
expecting her first child a son who was
born in july
to get pregnant
when you're
undergoing a trial
is the height
of irresponsibility in my mind
what about the baby well do you think
this was a planned pregnancy or do you
think it was
an accident i definitely think it was
i mean i was predicting it because it's
the best way to garner sympathy
to try to keep yourself out of prison
i think she needs to go to prison for a
while
i think 25 years sounds good
those closest to the theranos dream
including investor eileen lipra still
believe elizabeth holmes should face the
harshest sanctions
because beyond money
so much was at stake
everybody knows it was all a sham
so
why would you get a slap on the wrist
you know if it was just money that's one
thing but it's it's people's lives their
medical situations
that's not okay with anybody
hello i'm tara brown thanks for watching
60 minutes australia
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