Thinking About Christ Will Shatter Your Conception of Time | Fr. Stephen De Young & Jonathan Pageau

Summary

The script delves into the theological concept of time and space as experienced by different beings, particularly in the context of Christianity. It discusses the iconography of Christ as the creator of the world, the perception of time by animals versus humans, and the unique consciousness of angelic beings. The conversation also touches on the eternal nature of God and Christ, beyond human concepts of time, and the historical points where divine truths entered human consciousness, such as the Incarnation and the fall of angels.

Takeaways

• 📜 The script discusses the iconography and theological interpretations of Jesus Christ as the creator of the world, highlighting historical and religious perspectives.
• 👤 It mentions Saint Maximus and his sayings, suggesting a symbolic representation of Christ during the crucifixion as the creator of the world.
• 🕊 The idea of Christ as the 'Son of Man' is presented, emphasizing the continuity of this image in religious iconography up to the 14th century.
• 💡 The script touches on the concept of time and consciousness, suggesting that different beings, including humans and animals, experience time differently.
• 🐶 An example is given about a dog adapting quickly to the loss of a leg, contrasting human experience and the concept of bodily awareness.
• ⏳ The script questions the application of human time perception to angelic beings and divine entities, noting the limitations of such projections.
• 👼 It brings up the debate about when angels fell, using it as an example of how time is perceived differently in heaven compared to earth.
• 📖 Reference is made to Father Dumitru Staniloae and his work on Orthodox dogmatics, discussing God's attributes as being beyond spatial and temporal categories.
• 🌐 The script explains the concept of omnipresence in Western theology, suggesting that God is everywhere and nowhere at the same time, beyond human understanding of space and time.
• 🛑 The discussion includes the Incarnation of Christ, questioning the traditional understanding of Christ's experience of time and his ascension into heaven.
• 🐑 The 'Lamb slain before the foundation of the world' is quoted, illustrating the eternal truth of Christ's sacrifice and its entry into human consciousness at specific points in history.

Q & A

What is the idea that Jesus Christ created the world as presented in the script?

The script discusses the concept that in certain religious texts and iconography, it is depicted as if Jesus Christ, as the man, was the one who created the world, which is a continuation of the image of the Son of Man.

Why does Saint Maximus have 'crazy sayings' about Jesus Christ creating the world while on the cross?

Saint Maximus' 'crazy sayings' reflect the symbolic and theological interpretations that can sometimes appear contradictory when trying to reconcile the divine and human natures of Christ.

What does the script suggest about the representation of God in Old Testament iconography?

The script suggests that until the 14th century, God was often represented as Christ in Old Testament iconography, indicating a theological understanding where Christ and God are not distinctly separated in these depictions.

How does the script relate the perception of time to the understanding of divine beings?

The script highlights that different beings, such as animals and humans, experience time differently, and this perception should not be projected onto divine beings like angels or God, whose consciousness and experience of time are fundamentally different.

What is the significance of the phrase 'the lamb slain before the foundation of the world' in the script?

The phrase signifies the eternal truth of Christ's sacrifice, suggesting that it was true before it entered human consciousness and time, reflecting the eternal nature of divine events.

How does the script address the issue of time in relation to the Incarnation of Christ?

The script suggests that Christ's Incarnation is an event that is eternally true and entered into human consciousness at a specific point in time, but it does not imply that Christ as God experiences time in the same way humans do.

What is the script's view on the omnipresence of God?

The script explains that God's omnipresence is not about being in all places at the same time in a physical sense, but rather that spatial and temporal categories do not apply to God, who is described as being both everywhere and nowhere.

How does the script discuss the difference between human and animal consciousness in relation to time?

The script uses the example of a dog adapting to the loss of a leg to illustrate how animals may have a different kind of consciousness and bodily awareness that allows them to adapt to changes more quickly than humans, who have a more complex experience of time.

What is the script's stance on the Calvinist argument against Luther on the Eucharist?

The script mentions the Calvinist argument that Christ's body cannot be present in the Eucharist because it is in heaven, highlighting a misunderstanding of the divine nature of Christ that transcends physical limitations of time and space.

How does the script interpret the idea of Christ ascending into heaven from the beginning?

The script suggests that Christ's ascension into heaven is not a temporal event but an eternal one, implying that Christ has always been with God, beyond the constraints of time.