What it was like working with Steve Jobs | Tony Fadell and Lex Fridman

Summary

The transcript details a reflective conversation about working with Steve Jobs, highlighting his meticulous attention to detail and his ability to inspire and challenge his team without resorting to bullying or demeaning behavior. The speaker discusses the critical nature of making opinion-based decisions in the early stages of revolutionary products, where data is scarce. They emphasize the importance of explaining the rationale behind these decisions to foster team buy-in and understanding of the trade-offs. The discussion also touches on the transition from opinion-based to data-driven decisions as more information becomes available with subsequent product versions. Two significant opinion-based decisions made during the development of the iPhone are explored: the choice of a virtual keyboard over a hardware keyboard and the debate over including a SIM slot. The narrative underscores the balance between relying on gut instincts and leveraging data, and the transformative impact that can result from bold, visionary choices.

Takeaways

• 🚀 **Innovation and Attention to Detail**: Steve Jobs pushed his team relentlessly on details, aiming for perfection in revolutionary products.
• 🤝 **Respectful Critique**: Jobs critiqued work, not people, avoiding public humiliation or demeaning comments to maintain a positive work environment.
• 🤔 **Opinion-Based Decisions**: In the absence of data for version one products, Jobs made decisions based on his vision and understanding of what customers needed.
• 📈 **Data-Driven Evolution**: As products evolved, Jobs used data from previous opinion-based decisions to inform future, more data-driven choices.
• 💡 **Explaining Decisions**: Jobs believed in explaining the 'why' behind decisions to make team members feel part of the process and understand trade-offs.
• 📱 **The iPhone's Keyboard Debate**: A significant opinion-based decision was choosing a virtual keyboard over a hardware one, which was a bold move against the productivity-focused devices of the time.
• 🔄 **Adapting to Data**: When presented with data, even strong opinions could be overturned, as seen with the reintroduction of the SIM slot in the original iPhone.
• 🌐 **Global Market Considerations**: Jobs initially wanted a SIM-free iPhone, but data on global network requirements led to a change in this opinion.
• ⏱️ **Timing is Key**: The timing of introducing new technology is crucial; for example, the shift to eSIMs is happening now, but a SIM-less iPhone would have been too early in 2007.
• 📉 **Overcoming Past Successes**: Sometimes, past success can inhibit future progress. Jobs recognized when to leave behind old technologies for the sake of innovation.
• 🔮 **Vision Over Data**: While data is important, Jobs demonstrated that a clear vision for the future could sometimes be a more powerful guide for decision-making.

Q & A

What was the approach to handling details and challenges when working with Steve Jobs?

Steve Jobs pushed for attention to detail and challenged the team for the right reasons without bullying or demeaning. He critiqued the work, not the person, and ensured everyone understood the rationale behind decisions to foster a sense of ownership and commitment.

How did Steve Jobs handle decision-making for revolutionary products like the first version of the iPhone?

Jobs made opinion-based decisions for revolutionary products where data was limited. He emphasized explaining the 'why' behind decisions to involve the team and highlight trade-offs of different options.

What is the difference between data-driven and opinion-based decisions?

Data-driven decisions are informed by existing data and past performance, while opinion-based decisions are made in the absence of data, often relying on intuition or gut feeling, particularly in the case of version one products.

Why is it challenging for companies to make new innovations and products?

Companies struggle to innovate because they try to convert opinion-based decisions into data-driven ones to avoid risk, which can lead to paralysis in decision-making and a lack of new product development.

How did Steve Jobs approach the decision of having a virtual keyboard on the iPhone?

Jobs made an opinion-based decision to use a virtual keyboard instead of a hardware keyboard, recognizing the iPhone as an entertainment and web browsing device where a full-screen experience was more important than typing efficiency.

What was one of the critical opinion-based decisions that changed before the iPhone's launch?

The decision to omit a SIM slot was reversed after presenting data to Steve Jobs. The team demonstrated the necessity of a SIM slot for global compatibility and the trend towards SIM card usage in data networks.

How did the team convince Steve Jobs to include a SIM slot on the original iPhone?

The team provided data showing the requirement of SIM cards in various mobile networks worldwide and explained the implications of not having one for the iPhone's global adoption.

What is the significance of timing in making decisions for new technology products?

Timing is crucial as it determines whether a technology is accepted or becomes obsolete. For instance, the idea of phones without SIM slots is becoming more feasible now with the advent of eSIMs, which were not viable at the time of the original iPhone's launch.

Why is it important for a team to understand and own opinion-based decisions?

Understanding and owning opinion-based decisions is vital as it allows team members to feel part of the decision-making process, understand the rationale, and be motivated to correct and learn from any mistakes.

How did the development of the first iPhone illustrate the balance between opinions and data?

The iPhone's development showed that while opinions guide initial decisions, especially for version one products, data can shift those opinions when it becomes available. The inclusion of a SIM slot was an example of data influencing what initially was an opinion-based decision.

What is the role of management consulting in handling opinion-based decisions?

Management consulting often involves taking opinion-based decisions and structuring them in a way that data can support or refute them, which can then be used to inform future decisions and mitigate risk.

How can companies ensure they are making the right decisions when data is limited?

Companies should foster a culture that encourages informed risk-taking and learning from mistakes. They should also ensure that decisions are well-articulated, with clear rationale and understanding of potential trade-offs.

Outlines

00:00

🚀 Driving Innovation with Steve Jobs

This paragraph discusses the experience of working with Steve Jobs, highlighting his relentless attention to detail and his unique approach to leadership that pushed teams to excel. Jobs was known for critiquing work rather than individuals, making decisions based on a deep understanding of the product and customer needs. He encouraged a culture where the 'why' behind decisions was as important as the decisions themselves, fostering a sense of ownership and understanding among the team. The speaker also touches on the challenges of making opinion-based decisions in the absence of data, especially during the development of revolutionary products like the first iPhone, and how Jobs navigated these challenges.

05:02

📱 The iPhone's Evolution and Decision Making

The second paragraph delves into specific decision-making processes during the development of the iPhone. It contrasts the traditional hardware keyboard of the BlackBerry with the iPhone's innovative virtual keyboard, explaining how Jobs' vision for a device centered around entertainment and web browsing led to this opinion-based decision. The paragraph also highlights another crucial decision regarding the inclusion of a SIM card slot, which was initially opposed by Jobs but later reintroduced based on data showing its necessity for global adoption. The narrative emphasizes the balance between gut instincts and data-driven decisions, especially when pioneering new technology, and how sometimes, the past must be overcome for progress to be made.

Keywords

💡Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs was the co-founder, chairman, and chief executive officer of Apple Inc. In the context of the video, he is portrayed as a visionary leader who was meticulous about details and pushed his team to excel. His approach to decision-making and innovation is a central theme of the video.

💡Attention to Detail

Attention to detail refers to the careful consideration and focus on the finer aspects of a project or task. In the video, it is mentioned as a key aspect of Steve Jobs' approach, where he would critique the work rather than the person, indicating a high standard for excellence.

💡Opinion-Based Decisions

Opinion-based decisions are choices made without concrete data, relying on intuition, experience, or personal belief. The video discusses how Steve Jobs made such decisions, especially during the development of revolutionary products like the iPhone, where there was no prior data to guide the process.

💡Data-Driven Decisions

Data-driven decisions are choices made based on statistical analysis or empirical evidence. The video contrasts these with opinion-based decisions, highlighting the challenges of relying solely on data when creating version one of a product, as there is often no existing data to inform the process.

💡Innovation

Innovation refers to the process of creating new ideas, methods, or products. The video emphasizes the importance of innovation in the development of Apple's products, particularly under Steve Jobs' leadership, where he encouraged a culture of pushing boundaries and taking risks.

💡Version One (V1)

Version one (V1) refers to the initial release of a product. The video discusses the unique challenges of developing V1 products, where there is often a reliance on opinion-based decisions due to the lack of existing data or precedents.

💡Product Differentiation

Product differentiation is the process of distinguishing a product from its competitors, often through unique features or design. The video mentions this concept in relation to Apple's strategy, where differentiators were key to the evolution and success of their products.

💡Virtual Keyboard

A virtual keyboard is a touch-sensitive, on-screen keyboard used on devices like smartphones and tablets. The video discusses the decision to implement a virtual keyboard on the iPhone as an example of an opinion-based decision that defied conventional wisdom at the time.

💡SIM Slot

A SIM (Subscriber Identity Module) slot is a small tray that holds the SIM card, enabling mobile devices to connect to cellular networks. The video describes how the decision to include a SIM slot in the iPhone was initially an opinion-based one that was later supported by data, demonstrating the interplay between opinion and data in product development.

💡Management Consulting

Management consulting involves providing professional services to help organizations improve their performance. The video mentions management consulting as a field where opinion-based decisions are often converted into data-driven ones, which can sometimes hinder innovation.

💡eSIM

An eSIM (embedded SIM) is a type of SIM card that is built directly into a device, eliminating the need for a physical SIM card slot. The video discusses the future of mobile technology, suggesting that eSIM technology will eventually replace traditional SIM slots, illustrating the evolution of technology and its impact on product design.

Highlights

Working with Steve Jobs pushed people relentlessly on details and challenged them for the right reasons.

Jobs critiqued work, not the person, maintaining a focus on the product rather than demeaning individuals.

When making revolutionary decisions, it's crucial to explain the 'why' behind them to foster team understanding and ownership.

Version 1 products often rely on opinion-based decisions due to the lack of data to inform choices.

Management consulting often involves turning opinion-based decisions into data-driven ones to mitigate risk.

Articulating and owning opinion-based decisions is vital for innovation and product evolution.

Version 1 of products like the iPod and iPhone involved many opinion-based decisions that were not always correct initially.

As more data becomes available with subsequent versions, decisions can be better informed and refined.

The iPhone's development involved significant opinion-based decisions, such as the choice between a hardware and virtual keyboard.

The shift from a hardware keyboard to a virtual keyboard was a bold move that defied market trends and user expectations.

Steve Jobs initially wanted no SIM slot for the iPhone, but data and team input led to its inclusion.

Data can sometimes overrule opinion, especially when it directly impacts the product's functionality and market viability.

The timing of technological innovations is crucial; what may not be feasible today could become standard in the future.

Wi-Fi technology was popularized by Apple, demonstrating how a company can lead and shape technological trends.

The move towards phones without SIM slots and the adoption of eSIMs is an example of how technology evolves.

Sometimes, the wisdom of the past should be overcome for progress to be made, and this requires leaving behind traditional methods.

The importance of understanding that data represents the past, and the future may require different approaches.

Transcripts

what was it like working with steve jobs

what uh aspect of his behavior and

personality

let's say brought out the best in you

pushing you

really pushing you relentless on the

details

challenging you

for the right reasons

it wasn't bullying it wasn't demeaning

he would critique the work not judge the

person at least not in front of them

uh or inside of a you know in front of a

group or anything like that

i know it was really that attention to

detail and

he when he would make a decision you

know there are when you make the first

version of anything something

revolutionary there are a lot of

opinion-based decisions and there's only

one or two people three people who hold

those opinion-based decisions and what

they should be

and

when you have those opinions

and you're trying to work with the team

to

implement those

decisions

you have to really tell the why of those

decisions just don't go do it but why

it's there so you can feel part of that

decision you can understand

what were the trade-offs of the

different other

answers to that opinion right

and say this is the reason why we picked

the what we picked because it's this for

the customer or this for the overall

story what have you so that you felt

really good

because a lot of times most people want

a data driven decision

but with v1s you don't get data

right maybe in a b2b you could a little

bit because you can talk to customers

but you can't do that with a consumer

property one version one b2b business

the business versus what's the

alternative

uh business to consumer vb okay

which is defining centers

yes

so and when you say data-driven

decisions versus what

opinion-based decisions so like gut you

have to use you don't have any

um

you can't fall back on any data or any

previous history to kind of inform you

of what's going on right and so if you

look at most

companies who are paralyzed and cannot

make new innovations and new products

it's because they're trying to turn and

this is what i saw at phillips they're

trying to turn opinion-based decisions

into data-driven decisions so they don't

lose their jobs

so if you look at management consulting

management consulting is all about

taking those opinion-based decisions

giving them to someone else to turn into

data that comes back to them and says

they can blame the management

consultants yeah when something goes

wrong as opposed to it wasn't me

yeah right

when you need to have to tell that story

you have to understand that especially

v1 you need to be able to

um

articulate those those

opinion-based decisions and you need to

own them

and if you fail with some of them you

didn't get it right you you then

own them and fix them and move on right

version one of the ipod wasn't perfect

version one of the iphone wasn't perfect

we got a lot of opinion-based decisions

wrong

but as you go through because you got

more data because v2 you had data on

those original opinions and then you

were able to then modulate off of that

right and you still have new opinions

because those are differentiators that

you that we call differentiators that

the things that you know move the move

the product forward um in its evolution

but at the revolution stage opinions

opinions opinions no data and so you

have this discussion you and steve and

the whole in the stage and the whole

team

uh with opinions

and there you have to be harsh

i i wouldn't say harsh but you have to

be very determined right you know

there are two real opinion-based

decisions that happened on the iphone

one was

the keyboard

should we have a key hardboard keyboard

or should we have a virtual keyboard

the blackberry was the number one

productivity messaging device of its

time

it was called a crackberry for a reason

because people loved it because it had

it was easy to type and you know they

could get their work done

but when you're saying we're gonna move

from that everyone's talking about that

in the market and you say we're going to

move to a virtual keyboard and it's not

going to work as well as the hardware

keyboard

that's an opinion-based decision right

because the data is telling you

yeah all the best sales are over here

god that takes cuts

it takes guts but you have to look at it

from a different point of view and this

is how

i learned to come to understand this

because i had been building you know

virtual keyboards before and i knew

you know the goodness and the badness in

them right but he was like look those

are productivity devices we're making it

where ours is born out of an

entertainment device and productivity

right

we need to show full screen videos we're

going to have apps not apps but our apps

the apple apps because there were no app

store yet are going to take over the

whole screen you want a full screen web

browser you don't want one that's like

half of the device is just a keyboard

maybe you don't need that keyboard in

every instance so we want that part of

the screen to change based on the tool

you may need at the time and maybe it's

just full view right so you have to go

and understand it's a different type of

device just because that's that and it's

successful for that reason the

crackberry for the keyboard that's not

the only thing you're going to do with

this device because people only did

messaging and maybe a few phone calls

right this was going to be so much more

it was going to be an entertainment web

browsing device so you wanted those

tools to go away but it wouldn't be as

good

as the hardware keyboard so that's an

opinion but let me give you another

opinion based decision that got turned

around before it shipped

steve said no sim slot

i don't want any slots we're going to

make it very pure

johnny was like of course no slots

johnny

and

we all looked around go that doesn't

work you can't do that well why does

variety and then he would always and

this was the magic of steve like when

you said no that doesn't work you go

well why does verizon not have any sim

slots

right they showed that you can do a

mobile phone with those limits and

you're like

okay here we go and so

a few days later we come back with

you know and and so uh product marketing

voice of the customer engineering we all

come back with all the data showing how

many

how many data networks and mobile

networks required sim cards versus did

not

and what the trends were and we showed

the data

and that killed the or excuse me brought

back the sim slot on the original iphone

because we're like

he because he was just like we're going

to tell a t to not use a sim yeah right

we're going to just tell him to do it

differently right but we were like if we

want this thing to go anywhere around

the world you want to put that friction

in people are going to move from place

to place you know they have different

sims because of the prices and all that

stuff we had to show all of that data

and then that opinion-based decision got

turned into a data-driven decision and

it and the sim slot obviously showed up

so those are two ver at the very same

time yeah right

opinion can hold and so can data

overrule opinion when data does exist

for a v1 but the at the end of the day

you don't know what the right answer is

so

doing no

uh sim card slot

may have been the right decision

we won't know

because maybe if that was

the decision

then like many times throughout apple's

history you basically change the tide

of how technology is done

yeah absolutely you know you never know

apple started wi-fi people don't

understand wi-fi came out of there there

was no wi-fi in 2001. apple started

wi-fi and then everyone else you know

got onto on board if you look at now

where we're going we're going to phones

without sim slots

because we have e sims right and now the

sim slots becoming legacy legacy as a

legacy port

that legacy portal probably be gone by

six maybe ten years he'll be gone i'm

pretty sure of that

um because it's so much easier for

carries they don't have to have physical

things to go out and right

so right now it's just the early days

but it will happen and it will go its

way it'll fall away but it will take

time you just couldn't do it back then

so timing is essential here but at the

end of the day it's opinions and that's

where the genius is sometimes the data

tells you one thing but the data at the

end of the day does represent the past

exactly and the future may be different

than the past right

uh sometimes there's wisdom in the in

the past and sometimes

it's actually representative of

something that should be

overcome and

progress looks like leaving that stuff

behind

you