Aafia Siddiqui: 'Victim of all victims' | Part I | Centre Stage

Summary

Clive Stafford Smith, a civil rights lawyer, discusses the case of Aafia Siddiqui, a woman linked to the aftermath of 9/11, who was allegedly subjected to the US rendition and torture program. Siddiqui, once on the FBI's Most Wanted list, is serving an 86-year sentence in Texas for attempted murder. Smith details her ordeal, including the separation and alleged abuse of her children, and her own experience in secret prisons. He challenges the US government's narrative of her case, highlighting the flaws in America's 'war on terror' tactics.

Takeaways

• 😲 Aria Sadiki's case is one of the most shocking examples of the rendition and torture program used by the US after 9/11.
• 🇺🇸 After the September 11 attacks, President George W. Bush initiated the 'Global War on Terror,' which led to new policies targeting suspects, including the use of torture and secret detentions.
• 🧑‍⚖️ Civil rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith took on Aria's case in 2023, after learning about her ordeal through her dedicated sister, Fia.
• 👩 Aria Sadiki, a PhD graduate from MIT, was arrested in Pakistan with her three children, and was later sold to the Americans, likely for a bounty of $55,000.
• 🪖 The US rendition and torture program involved transferring prisoners to secret 'black sites' and Guantanamo, where many were held without charges and subjected to severe interrogations.
• 👶 Aria's children were separated from her during the arrest, with one reportedly killed after being dropped, and the others taken to secret locations in Afghanistan.
• 🤥 Aria has never been formally charged with terrorism, despite claims linking her to Al-Qaeda, and many of the accusations stem from erroneous information or forced confessions.
• 🛑 The US government denies that Aria was ever held in a secret prison, but multiple sources, including other prisoners, confirm she was held and tortured in a dark cell in Bagram, Afghanistan.
• 🚸 Aria was subjected to extreme psychological and physical torture, including being raped by guards, while her children were allegedly used as a tool to manipulate her during her imprisonment.
• 💔 The trauma inflicted on Aria and her children has had lasting effects, with her son now a doctor but deeply affected by the ordeal, and her case is a grim reminder of the flawed practices during the war on terror.

Q & A

Who is Aafia Siddiqui and what is her connection to the events following the 9/11 attacks?

Aafia Siddiqui is a woman who was put through the rendition to torture program by the Americans. Her case is intrinsically linked to the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, where she was accused of being an enemy of the state and is currently serving an 86-year prison sentence in Texas for attempted murder.

What was Aafia Siddiqui's educational background, and how did it play a role in her case?

Aafia Siddiqui completed her undergraduate degree at MIT and then pursued a PhD at Brandeis. She was an educationalist, not a scientist, contrary to misinformation suggesting she was capable of creating weapons due to her education.

What is the significance of Clive Stafford Smith's role in Aafia Siddiqui's case?

Clive Stafford Smith is a civil rights lawyer who has represented multiple Guantanamo prisoners. His involvement in Aafia Siddiqui's case is significant as he has been advocating for her release and has been uncovering details about her rendition and the treatment she faced.

What was the impact of the 9/11 attacks on the American psyche according to Clive Stafford Smith?

Clive Stafford Smith suggests that the 9/11 attacks had a profound impact on the American psyche, leading to a series of actions including the invasion of Afghanistan and the establishment of Guantanamo Bay.

How did the 'war on terror' policies initiated by President George W. Bush affect individuals like Aafia Siddiqui?

The 'war on terror' policies led to the establishment of extraordinary rendition, where individuals like Aafia Siddiqui were transferred to black sites and Guantanamo Bay without charge, subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques, and often tortured.

What is the 'bounty program' mentioned in the script, and how does it relate to Aafia Siddiqui's case?

The 'bounty program' was a US initiative offering money to people in Pakistan and Afghanistan to turn in individuals suspected of being terrorists. Aafia Siddiqui was reportedly abducted and sold to the Americans for such a bounty.

What happened to Aafia Siddiqui's children during her abduction?

During Aafia Siddiqui's abduction, her children were separated from her. One child, a baby, was reportedly dropped on his head and killed. The other two were taken to Afghanistan and subjected to unspeakable things.

What was Aafia Siddiqui's situation in Pakistan prior to her abduction?

Aafia Siddiqui was living in Boston with her husband and had completed her PhD. She was not charged with any terrorism-related crimes at MIT, and her involvement with certain causes was misconstrued to label her as an extremist.

How did Aafia Siddiqui end up in Pakistan, and what happened to her there?

Aafia Siddiqui went back to Pakistan to be with her family in Karachi. Her marriage fell apart, and she was on her way to the airport with her children when she was abducted by individuals who surrounded their car.

What are the allegations against Aafia Siddiqui, and how do they compare to the actual facts of her case?

Aafia Siddiqui was accused of having ties to Al-Qaeda and fundraising for the group, which Clive Stafford Smith dismisses as nonsense. The actual facts of her case involve her being an educationalist, not a scientist or physicist as was suggested by misinformation.

What is the significance of the statistic that 99.5% of Guantanamo Bay prisoners have been released, as mentioned by Clive Stafford Smith?

The statistic is significant as it indicates that the majority of those held in Guantanamo Bay were found to be effectively innocent, suggesting a failure in American intelligence and raising questions about the validity of Aafia Siddiqui's imprisonment.

Outlines

00:00

😱 Torture and Rendition Post-9/11

The paragraph discusses the aftermath of the September 11 attacks, where the US initiated a global war on terror, leading to the establishment of detention facilities like Guantanamo Bay and the practice of rendition to torture sites. Aria Sadiki, a woman with a detailed history, was subjected to these practices. Clive Stafford Smith, a civil rights lawyer, shares her case, highlighting her story as an example of the extreme measures taken by the US to prosecute perceived enemies of the state. Aria, once on the FBI's Most Wanted list, is serving an 86-year sentence in Texas for attempted murder. The narrative includes the impact of 9/11 on American policy and the public psyche, the CIA's role in transferring suspects, and the introduction of 'enhanced interrogation techniques.'

05:00

🎓 Aria's Academic Background and Misunderstandings

This section delves into Aria Sadiki's life before her imprisonment, focusing on her academic achievements at MIT and her pursuit of a PhD at Brandeis. There's a correction of misconceptions about her field of expertise, clarifying she was an educationalist, not a scientist or physicist as some believed. The paragraph also addresses allegations of her ties to Al-Qaeda, which are refuted by Clive Stafford Smith. The narrative continues with President George W. Bush's response to 9/11, including the declaration of a war on terror and the establishment of policies that led to Aria's eventual rendition.

10:03

🚔 The Arrest and its Aftermath

Paragraph 3 recounts Aria's arrest in Pakistan, the separation from her children, and the traumatic events that followed. It describes the US government's use of 'bounty programs' to capture suspected terrorists, often leading to misinformation and wrongful imprisonment. The narrative also touches on the personal lives of those affected, including Aria's divorce and her children's experiences in US custody. The paragraph highlights the US government's denial of Aria's rendition and the discrepancies between official statements and the accounts of those who were there.

15:03

👥 Aria's Children and the Consequences of Rendition

This paragraph focuses on the experiences of Aria's children following her arrest and rendition. It details the abuse and imprisonment they endured, including being held in dark rooms and prisons. The narrative also discusses the US government's statistics on Guantanamo Bay detainees, highlighting the majority were eventually found to be innocent. The paragraph emphasizes the lasting impact of these events on Aria's family and the broader implications of the US's rendition program.

20:06

🗣️ Testimonies and the Ongoing Struggle for Justice

Paragraph 5 discusses testimonies from other prisoners who confirmed Aria's presence in Bagram and the conditions she faced, including sexual abuse and psychological torture. It also mentions a planned attempt on Aria's life, which she narrowly escaped. The narrative underscores the ongoing fight for justice and the揭露 of the US government's actions, despite their denials and attempts to cover up the truth.

Keywords

💡Rendition

Rendition refers to the practice of transferring a person from one country to another for the purposes of interrogation or detention, often involving covert operations and bypassing due legal process. In the video's context, rendition is highlighted as a part of the U.S.'s 'extraordinary rendition' program following the 9/11 attacks, where individuals were transferred to 'black sites' for interrogation, sometimes involving torture. Aria, the subject of the video, is noted to have been subjected to this practice.

💡Torture

Torture is the act of inflicting severe physical or psychological pain on someone, often for the purpose of extracting information or as a form of punishment. The video discusses the use of 'enhanced interrogation techniques,' which is a euphemism for torture, as part of the U.S.'s response to terrorism post-9/11. Aria's case is particularly shocking as it involves allegations of torture not only to her but also to her children.

💡Guantanamo Bay

Guantanamo Bay is a U.S. military prison located in Cuba, which has been used to detain individuals deemed threats to national security, particularly after the 9/11 attacks. The video mentions Guantanamo Bay as a place where many individuals were held without charge and subjected to harsh interrogation techniques. Aria's case is linked to this facility, as her lawyer has represented multiple Guantanamo prisoners.

💡9/11 Attacks

The 9/11 Attacks refer to the series of four coordinated terrorist attacks by the Islamic extremist group al-Qaeda against the United States on the morning of September 11, 2001. The video script uses the 9/11 attacks as a backdrop to explain the U.S.'s subsequent 'War on Terror' and the establishment of policies like rendition and detention without trial, which directly impacted Aria's life.

💡War on Terror

The War on Terror is a term used to describe the global military, political, legal, and ideological struggle initiated by the U.S. and its allies to neutralize terrorist organizations and prevent terrorist attacks. The video discusses how this initiative led to policies that resulted in the detention and rendition of individuals like Aria, who was caught up in the dragnet of the U.S.'s counter-terrorism efforts.

💡Black Sites

Black sites are secret detention centers operated by governments for the purpose of interrogating people outside the bounds of the law and without oversight. The video mentions these sites as places where individuals, including Aria, were taken and subjected to torture as part of the U.S.'s rendition program.

💡Al-Qaeda

Al-Qaeda is a militant Islamist extremist organization founded in 1988, which has been responsible for numerous acts of terrorism, including the 9/11 attacks. The video discusses allegations of ties to Al-Qaeda as a reason for the U.S.'s interest in individuals like Aria, despite the lack of evidence supporting such claims.

💡Enhanced Interrogation Techniques

Enhanced Interrogation Techniques is a term used to describe aggressive interrogation methods that are considered by some to be torture. The video discusses these techniques as part of the U.S.'s approach to extracting information from detainees, which were used on Aria and others post-9/11.

💡Bagram

Bagram refers to Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan, which housed a U.S. military detention facility where prisoners were held and interrogated. The video mentions Bagram as one of the places where Aria was held and subjected to harsh treatment.

💡Aafia Siddiqui

Aafia Siddiqui, also known as 'Lady al-Qaeda,' is a Pakistani neuroscientist who was convicted in the U.S. for attempting to kill American military and FBI personnel in Afghanistan. The video's narrative centers around her case, detailing the allegations of her involvement with terrorism, her rendition, and the impact on her and her family.

💡Clive Stafford Smith

Clive Stafford Smith is a British lawyer known for his work on civil liberties and his representation of Guantanamo Bay detainees. In the video, he is presented as Aria's lawyer, advocating for her and discussing the injustices of her case, which is emblematic of the broader issues with the U.S.'s 'War on Terror' policies.

Highlights

Aria sadiki's case is a shocking example of the rendition to torture program post-9/11.

Aria was abducted with her three children, highlighting the personal impact of such programs.

Clive Stafford Smith, a civil rights lawyer, represents Aria and shares her story.

Aria's case is linked to the global war on terror declared by President George W. Bush.

Enhanced interrogation techniques were used, affecting many like Aria.

Aria was a student at MIT, contrary to misconceptions about her being a physicist.

The 'war on terror' led to policies like extraordinary rendition, affecting Aria's life.

The US offered bounties for suspected terrorists, leading to false accusations.

Aria's husband's innocent purchases were misconstrued due to post-9/11 prejudice.

Aria's return to Pakistan led to a bitter divorce and her eventual abduction.

Aria's children were separated from her and subjected to abuse.

The US government's statistics on Guantanamo Bay prisoners are called into question.

Aria's case stands out due to the involvement of her children and the severity of her ordeal.

Aria was reportedly sold to the US for $55,000 by people allied with Pakistan's president.

Aria's children were taken to Afghanistan and treated inhumanely.

Aria was held in a secret prison in Afghanistan, contrary to US denials.

Aria's experience in Bagram prison was corroborated by multiple independent witnesses.

Aria was subjected to severe abuse, including rape, while in captivity.

Aria's children were used in second-degree torture to make her confess.

Aria's case reveals the extent of the US government's misinformation and denial.

Aria was almost turned into a suicide bomber in a plot orchestrated against her.

Transcripts

when I met Aria um and I started

learning about her case really is the

one that shocks me more than anything

else she's the only person we have a

detailed history of who was put through

the whole rendition to torture program

by the Americans who was a

[Music]

woman in the wake of the September 11

attacks in 2001 the US president at the

time George W bush launched what he

called the global war on terror in the

process Bush authorized new policies and

programs to hunt down and punish those

who the Americans accused of being

responsible that included the CIA

transferring suspects to Black sites

around the world and to the US military

prison in Guantanamo Bay Cuba many

people were held without charge without

evidence and subjected to what became

known as enhanced interrogation

techniques

taking Center Stage today is Clive

Stafford Smith a civil rights lawyer and

Council for multiple Guantanamo

prisoners His Highest profile case and

most notorious is that of AIA sadiki AIA

sadiki was once one of the FBI's Most

Wanted suspects today serving an 86-year

prison sentence in Texas her story is

intrinsically linked to the aftermath of

the 9/11 attacks but more than 20 years

later Aria's ordeal is far from Over Our

Guest Clive Stafford Smith shares the

details of her case and explains why he

believes her story is an example of some

of the shadiest dealings and shocking

methods that the Americans used to find

and prosecute someone perceived as An

Enemy of the State cly Stafford Smith

thank you for joining us on Center Stage

that's great to be here in January 2023

you took on the case of Aria sadiki a

52y old woman serving an 86-year prison

sentence in Fort Worth Texas for

attempted murder tell me why you decided

to represent her well I was in Pakistan

actually and I just got three of my

pakistanis out of

Guantanamo and um aia's older sister FIA

who if you're ever in trouble you want

to have fer as your sister she CED me

and said would I go see afia

and stupidly I thought oh I just got rid

of three of my clients so now I must

have time so I went to see AIA in Texas

because I was going there on a death

penalty case and uh oh boy when you meet

her it's very hard to say no you've had

a great deal of experience with guantan

Bay you have seen many prisoners the

traumatizing effect it's had on them

what makes Aria's case different from

those others you've represented well

you're right I mean I've had 87 people

I've represented in GMO and various

others elsewhere and I will say speaking

as an American if you transported me

back to 2000 it would never occur to me

that I would spend so much of my life

talking to people about how America has

tortured them but when I met Aria um and

I started learning about her case really

really it's the one that shocks me more

than anything else when she was first

abducted and sold for a bounty to the

Americans by the pakistanis wasn't just

her she had her three children along and

the very first thing that happened was

apparently they dropped one child on his

head the baby month and apparently

killed him although no one's ever

admitted that and they took the other

two kids age three and six took them a

thousand kilometers up to

Afghanistan uh and did pretty

unspeakable things to them too and I

think and you don't have to be a parent

to realize that that's something that's

about as shocking as anything you could

do so maybe we set the scene on

September 11th 2001 you have the

deadliest attack on us soil that came to

be known as 9/11 that this event shakes

the country to its core it has such an

effect on the American psyche and that's

important because it sort of explains

the series of um and with that events

that then unfolded right I mean you

probably remember as I remember where

you were on 911 everyone remembers I

think they were I was in Louisiana and

suddenly the whole place was a ghost

town and I have to say since I was born

and raised in Britain I totally

underestimated the impact of 911 on

americ at the time or now at the time

okay um and so when all of this started

happening and they were talking about

invading Afghanistan and then Guantanamo

and all these things I thought you know

this is mad this is a terrible idea and

the first thing I was going to do was

sue them over it and I could find no one

among my liberal defense lawyers during

death penalty because that was the

magnitude it was aming of what had

happened it had totally shapen America

up well 5 days later on September 16th

2001 President George W Bush declares

The Crusade the war on terror against

Al-Qaeda and terrorist

groups where is Aria sadiki at this

point where is she living and what is

she doing Aria was doing just finishing

off her PhD so she had done an undergrad

degree at MIT uh and then a PhD at

brandise and you know this is actually

the first place that everything goes

wrong for her because everyone has

always thought that she was some sort of

neuroscientist scientist person who

could do all these things she was really

an educationalist this is the basic

facts of the case that even her her

profession and her expertise there is

misinformation about this they honestly

thought that she was because she went to

MIT some sort of physicist who could

make a nuclear bomb whereas I've had

really interesting chats with her about

her PhD thesis and it's about how to

teach your children but the terrorism

charges were never actually brought

against her she's never been charged

with anything at MIT when she was

studying she who were her friends who

were her colleagues she was um you know

she was young she was a student she was

already you know she's a sincere Muslim

she's not the extremist that some people

make out but you know she was passionate

about certain causes she was passionate

for example about how there shouldn't be

a genocide against Muslims in Bosnia um

but I seem to recall so as President

Clinton um and so she was involved in

some of those causes but she was most

involved in trying to get her education

degree so she could be an educationalist

because there are allegations that she

had ties to al-qaed here and that that

uh she might have been involved in

fundraising for the group yeah yeah

that's total nonsense I mean if anyone

has ties to Al-Qaeda as me I represented

dozens of them but but um but nothing

old

statement on September

17th President Bush issued a secret memo

that empowers the CIA to to move against

groups that might be planning terrorist

activities and this bit is maybe

relevant to to Aria and many others that

you've represented one day later he

signs into law the authorization for the

use of military force what does that

allow the government to do well it's a

very good question what it really allows

the government to do what unfortunately

it let the government do was Institute a

whole process of rendition to torture

now they call it extraordinary rendition

although I really don't know what

ordinary rendition is it's called

kidnapping in normal language and when I

first went to Guantanamo Bay um I

thought I was going to have a lot of

explaining to do for a lot of people who

really were captured on the battle

fields of Afghanistan and I got down

there and I had a devil of time finding

people who had actually ever been on the

battlefield of Afghanistan and honestly

I couldn't understand it for a long time

until I learned about the Bounty program

and it turns out that the US was

offering a lot of money to people in

Pakistan particularly but also

Afghanistan to turn in people who

supposedly were Fighters and one thing I

always like to ask my students is um you

know I'm offering you a quarter of a

million dollars here to turn one of your

colleagues in for being in Torah Bora uh

in 2002 are you going to take it I mean

I like to think that I wouldn't but hey

if my circumstances were different got

to pay that mortgage off um I'm afraid

that's a huge amount of money to people

in certain parts of the world and it

it's actually marari president Sheriff

who boasts in his book that more than

half of the Guantanamo prisoners were

literally sold to the US for these

bounties um and this and they weren't in

Afghanistan you know a lot of the people

including someone like Muhammad El gani

aged 14 was in Karachi had never been to

Afghanistan um but they were turned in

for all this money along with a story

about how they were Al-Qaeda and thereby

Begins the Vicious Cycle right because

if I were to say to you maram are you a

member of

al-Qaeda what are you going to

say absolutely not okay now I'm going to

slap you I'm afraid yeah are you a

member of al-Qaeda well it depends how

many times you

slap yeah yeah so they were tortured

into confessions and the people who are

doing that torturing and not doing it

because they think you're innocent

they're doing it because they think

you're lying and when you finally admit

you are a member of al-Qaeda they think

aha we were right all along and this is

what was going on and I think it's a big

mistake to think that these are all evil

torturers who are trying to take

innocent people and put them in prison

it's much more dangerous than that

they're going to put you in prison and

then you've now confessed that you're

Al-Qaeda and at that point how are you

going to prove you're not why did the

Americans

accept accept what those stories well

because said they had paid good money

yeah someone said that Mariam is a

member of al-Qaeda I've now got you to

admit you are so the Americans have got

yeah them to admit yeah but we we

thought you were to begin with because

some informant told us normally from the

Pakistan military I think the

intelligence people have been

unbelievably naive one of my guys benam

Muhammad who some people will be

familiar with confessed when he was

being abused that he knew how to build a

nuclear weapon now the Americans were

obsessed with this understandably you

know they're really paranoid about

Al-Qaeda getting nuclear weapons um but

it wasn't until I got in as his lawyer

that we were able to get the real story

out which was that he had said that you

get uranium you put it in a bucket you

swing it around your head for 45 minutes

that divides uranium 235 from uranium

239 Bob's your uncle that's your weapons

great he was tortured into saying this

he was tortured into saying that but

then this filters back through Chinese

Whispers to the White House and John

Ashcroft Attorney General of the United

States interrupts his visit to Moscow to

say we've just solved a nuclear bomb

plot it's just shocking but that's one

example of literally hundreds of things

that I've come across over the last few

years we go now from 2001 to 2003 you

have 9 11 you have uh various changes

that the Bush Administration puts into

place in order to prosecute this war on

terror you have the invasion of

Afghanistan where is Aria now in 2002

Aria was in Boston and she was living

with her husband there was an incident

where amjad the husband had bought

various things on the internet which

included night vision goggles now he's

Muslim and I speak again as an American

when I say and I'm sorry about this I

really think it's awful the Prejudice we

had against Muslims after 911 was awful

the FBI went by amjad and afia's

apartment confronted amjad with the

stuff he' bought he says oh well I'm a

Hunter and uh you know this is why I get

him and they took that at face value I'm

Amazed by that I'm amazed he wasn't

arrested on the spot actually under

those circumstances but all of that went

into the files that would later get

reviewed by you know some intelligence

person you know somewhere in Washington

and all of this begins to add up to a

portrait allegedly of AIA and her

husband she has three children at this

point she had two at that point she had

two at that point so then how does she

go from living there to being back in

Pakistan she wanted to go back to her

family in Karachi amjad hadn't finished

his medical degree so he wasn't quite so

Keen he wanted to finish it but they

went back to

Karachi uh and that's where their

marriage really fell apart they got into

a very bitter divorce she was then

pregnant with the third child sulaman

who was born in September 2002 she's

taking a taxi to Karachi

Airport they're going to fly to Islam

Abad because she has plans now for her

career

as they're going to the airport and Aria

really blames herself for getting the

taxi to take a back route but it's then

that these cars surround their car and

um what happens is this so there are all

these goons pull first the two older

kids out there's Ahmed age six maram age

three and they put them in another car

Ahmed recalls but he was a very

traumatized six-year-old he recalls

looking out through the back window and

seeing sulan the

six-month-old on the ground with blood

surrounding him thinking that he'd

fallen on his head that's actually the

only source we have for the fact that

sulaman may be dead and we don't know

for sure but at the same time apia is

dragged out of the car herself and put

in another car she's the only person we

have a detailed history of who was put

through the whole rendition atour

program by the Americans who was a woman

and I thought originally you know

there's going to be a lot of explaining

to do about what happened to these

people but this is

ultimately the reality and these are the

figures of the United States government

not me there have been 780 prisoners in

Guantanamo if you set aside the nine

people who sadly died there that's

771 there are only uh 13 of them who

haven't been cleared as being

effectively innocent so

99.5% of the people in Guantanamo Bay

have been released for which you need a

finding by the six top intelligence

agencies of America that they're no

threat to anyone they're not the worst

of the worst terrorists in the world

these are the American statistics the

catastrophe of our intelligence in

Guantanamo and I've seen a lot of this

over the last 20 years is just unbeliev

believably bad Americans were offering

as you said huge amounts of money for

people and with air I think it was

$55,000 reportedly paid to people allied

with then Pakistan president mashara to

abduct her and turn her over to the

Americans but as you've said the thing

that distinguishes her case from the

others is the children she had three

small children with her the children is

really something so ahed who I've talked

to about this he Now 26 and he's a

qualified doctor really delightful young

man but deeply traumatized and he

recounts how he was taken to a dark room

really dirty Place held there for a

little bit then he's a US national right

because he was born in the US um then

he's taken by the US a thousand

kilometers from where he was in Karachi

to cabal and put in a prison and he's in

a prison for the next 5 years you know

what are you doing I I just think this

is so deranged that America would do

that to him then you've got Mariam who

was three and she was taken again to a

dark room a separate dark room from

Ahmed and then she was taken up to cabul

where she was forcibly adopted into a

family of American white PE Christian

people uh Josh and Natalie uh who had to

have been in intelligence agents there

in Afghanistan and she's held by them in

adoption but she's called Fatima and

she's held there for seven years they

were taken from Pakistan to

Afghanistan AIA is

imprisoned Ahmed who's five or six years

old is put in a juvenile prison he's

told his name is Ali and to never speak

of any of this again and Mariam becomes

Fatima and is adopted by a white

American couple living in kble on the

apparent theory that you know you're

better off being a white Christian

American and a Pakistani Muslim of a

certain color Mafia now is in

prison and well you say that right but

the Americans deny it the Americans deny

it the Americans deny to this day that

Aria was in a secret prison in

Afghanistan where was she in ording to

the US they have all these different

things is all nonsense but they say she

was wandering around Pakistan with her

children and in fact was living in a

place called

nazimabad in uh Karachi for 5 years

which just a hops given a jump from

where her family lives total nonsense so

the Americans are making false claims

about her there's a version where

they're saying she was just wandering

around aimlessly and you know but she is

during this time in in Bagram well the

only reason we know that is because I've

been there several times and found a

bunch of prisoners who were in baground

with them the first one was a guy called

Saleem cuch um Saleem came forward

because he's been itching to tell

someone this for the last 15 years so he

told me the whole story about how he was

in the isolation place and apia was

being held in this little wooden box how

did you know it was her well this was

obviously my question and I started

talking to all sorts of other people who

claimed the same thing so first she was

Pakistani spoke ear everyone recognized

that second what happened was that and

I've been to Bagram and I've talked to

lots of people who were there at the

time that there were no showers and

toilets in the iso area and so they had

to take this woman from there to the

showers they would put a towel over her

head but a lot of the time that came off

and they will s and so they were really

upset about this the male prisoners were

upset that uh when this when this woman

were that she was there or that they

were able to ident that she was there

and then what happened is when they got

out they saw pictures of her and a whole

series of independent people recognized

her as the woman they had seen them

there's no question she was abducted

with the children we have a recording of

one of the officers who did it he didn't

know he was being recorded at the time

but he boasted about everything they did

so then for the Americans to be telling

the truth they have to have let her go

that never happened she's told me what

happened to her and she was later then

taken to a women's prison a women's

place it was some dark side where she

was in a room with two Afghan women and

you know this is where it gets really

really awful um she was raped by the

gods they were Afghan Gods uh she

describes getting with the other women

tying their hands together so when this

guard came in the next day they took him

down and beat him up um you know more

power to her frankly but then she was

put in an isolation cell and the abuse

got worse while she was in those prisons

the US had a one-way gloss and they were

you know seemingly abusing children on

the other side of the last that she was

meant to think were her children the

Spanish Inquisition 500 years ago knew

that second degree torture was worse

than first degree you know you can

torture me I'm not happy about it but if

you do something to my son in front of

me my

child you know that's far worse and Aria

told me about this she said I had to

stop them doing this and in the end the

only thing I could think to do was

pretend I didn't care um because I

thought that was the only way to stop

them abusing those children in front of

me and what a place to be in to to have

that thought going through to your head

in part two of this episode civil rights

lawyer Clive Stafford Smith talks more

about the injustices around the

imprisonment of his client Aria sadiki

and how he says that through sheer luck

she barely escaped an attempt on her

life this is a very important element is

it a discovery you've made recently that

could be very important in this case she

was going to go to GNE on this bus she

was going to be tired as a suicide

bomber and she was going to be killed

there to watch the conclusion of this

episode click on the link in the

description