Let's Be Clear on the Difference Between Angels and Demons | Jonathan Pageau
Summary
TLDRThe speaker discusses the Queen of Heaven in the Book of Jeremiah and her relation to the Mother of God, Mary. He explains that while ancient hierarchies of gods existed, these were meant to serve God's will but later rebelled. Mary, however, fulfills the Queen of Heaven role by offering worship to God, unlike the rebellious gods who sought power for themselves. The speaker emphasizes that Mary's role is not idolatry but a proper participation in the divine order, where honor is directed upwards to God.
Takeaways
- 📜 Christianity is a non-dual religion where Christ offers a way for all things to be saved.
- 👑 The 'Queen of Heaven' mentioned in the book of Jeremiah is distinct from the Mother of God (Mary) in Christian theology.
- 🛡️ God originally established a hierarchy of guardians or principalities to manage the world according to His will.
- ⚔️ These principalities rebelled against God, taking power and worship for themselves, which is condemned by the prophet.
- 🏰 The analogy of generals and aristocrats illustrates how these rebellious entities took power for themselves instead of serving the higher divine order.
- 🙏 Mary, the Mother of God, is a proper example of the 'Queen of Heaven' as she always directs honor and worship to God, never keeping it for herself.
- 🎨 Icons of Mary depict her in prayer and worship, emphasizing her role as one who elevates worship to God.
- 🕊️ The concept of the divine council is being reinstated through the saints and the faithful, who are called to rule with Christ.
- ⚖️ The patterns and titles of ancient pagan gods are not necessarily wrong but are fulfilled properly in Christian saints who serve and worship God.
- 🛡️ St. Michael, as the commander of God's army, is an example of a figure who offers his service and worship to God, unlike the rebellious entities who misuse their power.
Q & A
What is the relationship between the Queen of Heaven in the Book of Jeremiah and the Mother of God in Christianity?
-The Queen of Heaven in the Book of Jeremiah represents a rebellious figure who seeks worship and power for herself, contrary to God's will. In contrast, the Mother of God (Mary) in Christianity fulfills a similar role in a righteous way by offering all honor and worship to God, thus embodying the proper function of a divine intermediary.
How does the concept of non-duality relate to the discussion of the Queen of Heaven and Mary?
-The speaker emphasizes that Christianity is non-dual, meaning that everything is ultimately reconciled through Christ. Mary, as the Queen of Heaven, participates in this non-duality by directing all honor and worship upward to God, rather than keeping it for herself, which aligns with the non-dual nature of Christianity.
What does the speaker mean by the 'hierarchies of gods' and how does it relate to Christian theology?
-The 'hierarchies of gods' refer to the guardians or principalities that God originally established to manage the world according to His will. However, these beings rebelled, seeking worship and power for themselves. In Christian theology, this rebellion contrasts with the proper order, where beings like Mary direct all worship and honor to God, thus participating in the divine hierarchy correctly.
Can you explain the analogy of generals and aristocrats in relation to the principalities and powers?
-The analogy compares the principalities and powers to generals and aristocrats in a kingdom. These figures are supposed to execute the will of the emperor (God) but some rebel, seeking power and worship for themselves. This rebellion mirrors the actions of the principalities who sought to usurp God's authority.
How does Mary, the Mother of God, differ from the rebellious principalities in the speaker's explanation?
-Mary differs from the rebellious principalities by fully submitting to God's will and directing all honor and worship she receives upward to God. Unlike the principalities that sought power for themselves, Mary functions within the divine hierarchy as it was intended, without keeping any honor for herself.
What role do the saints play in the divine hierarchy according to the speaker?
-The saints participate in the divine hierarchy by reigning with Christ and helping to restore the proper order, where all worship and honor is directed toward God. This reinstates the original divine council that was corrupted by the rebellion of the principalities.
Why does the speaker believe that the titles of ancient pagan gods are not necessarily wrong?
-The speaker suggests that the titles of ancient pagan gods are not wrong in themselves but were misused when the beings associated with them sought to keep worship and power for themselves. In Christian thought, similar titles can be applied to figures like saints or angels, provided they direct all honor to God.
How does the speaker use the example of Saint Michael to explain the proper use of power in the divine hierarchy?
-Saint Michael, as the commander of God's army, is compared to the pagan god of war. However, unlike the pagan god, Saint Michael is subject to God and uses his power in service and worship of the infinite God, rather than for his own gain. This illustrates the proper use of power in the divine hierarchy.
What does the speaker mean by 'offering it up higher' in relation to Mary?
-'Offering it up higher' refers to Mary's practice of directing any honor or worship she receives toward God. This act of offering ensures that the honor does not stop with her but is passed on to the highest authority, God Himself.
Why does the speaker mention medieval Marian miracles in relation to the Queen of Heaven?
-The speaker acknowledges that some aspects of medieval Marian miracles might resemble the practices condemned by the prophet Jeremiah. However, the key difference is that Mary, as the Queen of Heaven, does not keep any honor for herself but directs it all to God, thus maintaining the proper divine order.
Outlines
🤔 Exploring the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah and Her Connection to Mary
This paragraph addresses a question about the Queen of Heaven mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah and her relation to the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God. The speaker explains that Christianity is non-dualistic, meaning it doesn't adhere to strict binaries like good and evil without context. The discussion delves into the concept of spiritual hierarchies, where principalities, or spiritual beings, were initially meant to serve God's will but eventually rebelled to seek power for themselves. The Queen of Heaven is considered a real spiritual function, and Mary fulfills this role in a righteous manner, always directing worship towards God rather than keeping it for herself. The speaker emphasizes that while there are similarities between pagan gods and Christian figures like Mary or St. Michael, the key difference lies in their submission to God's will.
🤯 Clarifying Complex Concepts in Spiritual Hierarchies
In this paragraph, the speaker reflects on how they may have gone deeper into explaining these spiritual concepts than usual. They acknowledge the complexity of the ideas discussed, particularly the distinctions between ancient pagan gods and Christian saints. The speaker hopes that their detailed explanation has been helpful in clarifying these challenging concepts.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Queen of Heaven
💡Mother of God
💡Non-dual
💡Divine Council
💡Principalities
💡Rebellion
💡Iconography
💡Saint Michael
💡Pagan Gods
💡Hierarchy of Being
Highlights
The Queen of Heaven in the book of Jeremiah is discussed in relation to the Mother of God, with a focus on how medieval Marian miracles might reflect similar themes.
Christianity is ultimately a non-dual belief system where Christ offers a way to save and elevate various hierarchies of beings.
In the original creation, God established principalities and guardians to manage the world in alignment with His will.
These principalities rebelled against God, seeking worship and power for themselves, deviating from their intended role.
The concept of hierarchical rebellion is illustrated by comparing it to generals who rebel against an emperor, seeking power and wealth for themselves.
The Queen of Heaven is seen as a legitimate function, but Mary fulfills this role properly by offering worship to God rather than keeping honor for herself.
Icons of the Mother of God depict her worshiping Christ and praying to God, emphasizing her role in giving honor to a higher power.
The difference between ancient gods and the saints is that the saints, like Mary, offer their honor and worship to God rather than keeping it for themselves.
The divine council is being reinstated through the saints, who reign with Christ, contrasting with the ancient hierarchy of rebellious gods.
The patterns of ancient titles and functions may resemble those of saints, but the key distinction is in their subjection and service to God.
The comparison between the God of War and Saint Michael highlights the difference between a being who tyrannizes and one who serves the divine will.
The roles and titles of ancient pagan gods are not inherently wrong but must be understood in a Christian context where they are subject to God's will.
Mary's story and imagery consistently show her offering honor to God, never keeping it for herself, which is a key distinction from idolatry.
The idea that Mary is worshiped as a goddess is countered by her consistent portrayal as one who elevates everything to God.
The concept of hierarchical service is essential to understanding the proper Christian order, where beings at different levels serve and worship God, rather than seeking power for themselves.
Transcripts
um so dorothea says could you comment on
the queen of heaven in the book of
jeremiah and her relation
to the mother of god
especially since some of the things the
prophet is condemning sounds like
medieval marrying miracles thanks
um and so the way to understand that
is is is to say something because one of
the things i keep telling you guys about
is that christianity is ultimately a
non-dual thing it's not
christ offers the manner in which things
get saved
and so like if you listen to the if you
listen to the lord of uh spirits podcast
you know they really go into this very
well so there's a sense in which
let's say these hierarchies of gods that
existed that
this is actually what god wanted in the
outset
that god set upon the world these
guardians
these principalities that were there to
to
in in like a hierarchy of being uh
supposed to manage at their
level the will of god in the world and
so
then those principalities rebelled
against god and tried to take worship
and power for themselves so
it's not it's not it's yes it sounds
abstract and it sounds
uh like just something that's hard to
understand but you can understand it
at a lower level if you want to right
you can understand
that um
that that there's a country with a
certain organization and then the
country the army they have generals
and those generals are there to manifest
the will of the emperor let's say
and to to to have wars and different
different
uh you know to be able to to manifest
the will of the emperor
and the different aspects of of of the
kingdom
and then some of those generals or some
of those aristocrats
decide that they're just gonna stop at
themselves they're just gonna take it
for themselves
and and therefore they start to gather
of money they take the worship
they take the money they take the things
of the people but they don't
they don't offer up to that which is
above them and they try to be little
gods in themselves
and that's what this is talking about in
terms of
these lower principles that are that are
getting power for themselves but that
aren't participating in the giant
pattern the proper way they're
revolutionary and so
and so the idea would be that the queen
of heaven
is still a real function in the in the
world
and that mary plays
that role in a proper way in a way
in which she says yes to god in a way in
which
she offers worship to god so the icons
of the mother of god show her worshiping
christ the icons of the mother of god
show her praying to god
right she so when you look at an icon of
the mother of god and she's praying
she's praying up and so the image of the
queen of heaven
is one which is giving giving the honor
the the whatever it is that comes to her
offering it up higher so that's the
difference between
the the divine council which is being
re-say
reinstated through the saints and
through our
reigning with christ through our
capacity to rule with him
and the ancient hierarchy of gods but
what's going to happen
is is it's not surprising that you're
going to see that the
the patterns are actually going to
resemble but
but obviously mary if you look at her
story if you look at
images of her if you look at everything
about her
there's nowhere where she keeps that
honor for herself nowhere
she's always offering it up so you could
you could
pretend that that's not what's going on
and you could say oh no yes
it it looks like she's offering it up it
looks like
like like she is but no it's all it's
all idolatry but it's not idolatry
because there is this whole movement up
towards the the
the god of creation and so the the
the honor that we that we give to the
people that manifest god
to us there are they're carried up
into into the highest they don't stop at
them
um it's best way to understand it so you
will see
the tropes of ancient the titles of
ancient
pagan gods those titles are not
necessarily wrong right so it's like
you don't like the idea of that say the
the god of
the god of war but you don't have a
problem with saint michael
the commander of god's army
like those are similar just that one is
subject
is subject and is it and offers his
service and his worship
up to the infinite and the other has a
lower sense in which he can do his own
thing and can kind of
tyrannize the world and right and
and make people slaves to his own to his
own passionate uh
structure so i don't know i hope that's
i hope that
helps i feel like i'm going further in
explaining this stuff to you guys that i
ever have
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