Carbon Capture and Utilization: Developing Tomorrow's Technology with LanzaTech
Summary
TLDRThe transcript from a Green Lounge event discusses the innovative collaboration between LanzaTech and Primetals Technologies to decarbonize the steel industry through gas fermentation. Jennifer Holmgren, CEO of LanzaTech, and Alexander Fleischanderl, Head of Green Steel at Primetals Technologies, along with other industry experts, delve into the partnership's journey over the past decade. They highlight the successful development of a plant in Europe that converts carbon-rich waste gases from blast furnaces into renewable ethanol, a significant step towards sustainable steel production. The panelists explore the potential of biological fermentation in transforming CO2 emissions into valuable products, the challenges and future outlook of the steel industry, and the importance of embracing a circular economy. They emphasize the need for aggressive technological adaptation and the role of carbon capture, utilization, and storage (CCUS) in achieving net-zero targets. The discussion also touches on the scalability of gas fermentation technology, the economic considerations, and the resilience of steel as a material despite advancements in other materials.
Takeaways
- 🤝 **Partnership Focus**: LanzaTech and Primetals Technologies have a decade-long collaboration aimed at decarbonizing the steel industry through gas fermentation solutions.
- 🌱 **Sustainable Innovation**: The joint project, Steelanol, utilizes biological fermentation to transform carbon-rich waste gases from steel production into renewable ethanol.
- 📜 **Agreement Expansion**: LanzaTech and Primetals have recently signed a second collaboration agreement to further their work in sustainable steel production.
- 🔬 **Technological Process**: The gas fermentation process involves microbes that convert CO2 and CO gases into ethanol, similar to beer fermentation, creating a sustainable product.
- ♻️ **Circular Economy**: LanzaTech's technology supports a circular carbon economy by recycling carbon emissions from steel mills into usable materials and chemicals.
- 🚀 **Market Potential**: The market for CO2 utilization is significant, with potential applications in sustainable aviation fuel and the production of various chemicals and materials.
- 🌟 **Commercial Progress**: LanzaTech has six commercial plants in operation, demonstrating the scalability and potential for exponential growth of their technology.
- 🔑 **Key Success Factors**: Reducing costs, technological innovation, and strategic partnerships are crucial for the widespread adoption of gas fermentation in the steel industry.
- 📈 **Economic and Environmental Synergy**: The technology not only helps in decarbonizing the steel sector but also provides economic benefits by producing valuable byproducts.
- 🌐 **Global Impact**: The technology has global applications, with projects in China, India, and Europe, showcasing its versatility across different regions.
- ⏳ **Timeline for Development**: The development and deployment of gas fermentation plants take approximately two and a half years, emphasizing the importance of starting the transition process early.
Q & A
What is the main focus of the collaboration between LanzaTech and Primetals Technologies?
-The primary focus of the collaboration is to develop and implement gas fermentation solutions for decarbonizing the steel industry.
What was the significance of the first European LanzaTech plant?
-The first European LanzaTech plant marked a milestone in the partnership, as it was the first to successfully ferment gases and produce renewable ethanol from carbon-rich waste gases.
How does the technology behind the carbon-smart process work?
-The technology uses biological fermentation to transform CO2 or CO gases from the steel industry into ethanol through microbial processes, which can then be used in various industries.
What are the main benefits of the unique fermentation process for the steel industry?
-The fermentation process allows for the utilization of waste gases, reducing the carbon footprint of the steel industry, and enabling the production of renewable ethanol and other valuable products.
What is the potential market size for CO2 utilization in the context of steel mill gases?
-The potential market size is substantial, with applications in sustainable aviation fuel, petrochemicals, and other industries, potentially reaching billions of tons.
What are the key success factors for steel producers looking to reduce their carbon footprint?
-Key factors include adopting a circular economy approach, recycling carbon byproducts, partnering with technology providers like LanzaTech, and integrating these technologies into steel production processes.
How long does it typically take to develop a project with the capacity of capture and utilization like LanzaTech's?
-Under optimal conditions and assuming no unforeseen delays, the timeline from contract signing to commissioning is about two and a half years.
What is the scalability of the gas fermentation technology used by LanzaTech?
-The technology is modular and scalable, with recent developments allowing for double the throughput in the same reactor size, making it adaptable to various scales of operation.
How does the transition to green hydrogen affect the gas fermentation process?
-As the steel industry transitions to green hydrogen, the same fermentation system can be used to increase ethanol yield by adding hydrogen to the process, making it a flexible solution for different stages of industry transition.
What is the future outlook for the steel industry in terms of decarbonization?
-The steel industry is expected to continue its decarbonization efforts, with more electric arc furnaces and a shift towards electrification. However, carbon capture and utilization technologies will remain relevant for existing blast furnaces.
How does LanzaTech's technology contribute to the circular economy?
-LanzaTech's technology contributes by capturing carbon-rich waste gases and converting them into usable products like ethanol and other chemicals, thereby recycling carbon and reducing waste.
Outlines
🤝 Partnership and Innovation in Green Steel Technology
The panel discussion at the Green Lounge event focuses on the collaboration between Lanza Tech and Primetals Technologies in developing gas fermentation solutions to decarbonize the steel industry. The partnership, initiated 10 years ago, has recently been extended. Jennifer Holmgren, CEO of Lanza Tech, and Alexander Fleishandle, Head of Green Steel at Primetals Technologies, discuss the early days of the collaboration, their shared vision for green technology, and the first plant in Europe that produces renewable ethanol from carbon-rich waste gases. The discussion also covers the potential for further integration of technologies and the innovative process of transforming CO2 gases into valuable products like ethanol and other molecules.
🌱 Carbon Capture and Utilization in the Steel Industry
The conversation explores the benefits of a unique fermentation process for the steel industry, which aligns with the goal of decolonization. Alexander Fleishandle emphasizes the importance of utilizing available technologies like carbon capture, utilization, and storage (CCUS) with Lanza Tech's process. The discussion also touches on the long-lasting partnership between the companies and their shared commitment to developing groundbreaking solutions for heavy industry decarbonization. Carl Porkatoffer, Global Head of Services at Primetals Technologies, joins the discussion, highlighting the need for more aggressive adoption of new technologies and the importance of vision-led initiatives, much like Tesla's impact on the electric car industry.
📈 Market Potential and Scalability of CO2 Utilization
The panelists discuss the market size and potential for CO2 utilization, particularly in the context of steel mill gas fermentation. They highlight the vast market opportunities, such as sustainable aviation fuel and the petrochemical industry's demand for ethylene. Jennifer Holmgren explains that the technology is scalable, with six commercial plants operational by the end of the year. The conversation also addresses the need to reduce costs and improve efficiency through technology innovation and increased deployment. The potential for genetically modified organisms to produce a variety of chemicals is also mentioned, showcasing the adaptability of the fermentation process for different products.
🔄 Circular Economy and Carbon Recycling in Steel Production
The discussion delves into the concept of a circular economy within the steel industry, emphasizing the importance of recycling carbon byproducts. Jennifer Holmgren illustrates how captured carbon can be repurposed into everyday materials, thus preventing additional fossil fuel use and breaking the linear carbon supply chain. The panelists also emphasize the importance of collaboration between large and small companies to drive innovation and create a sustainable future. Lanza Tech's recent public listing and future milestones are also discussed, with a focus on expanding the technology's deployment and exploring new resources.
🚀 Accelerating Technology Deployment for a Greener Future
The panelists address the timeline for developing and scaling up projects involving carbon capture and utilization. They agree that the process is complex and involves a learning curve, but with modular and scalable reactors, the timeline from contract signing to commissioning is approximately two and a half years. Alexander Fleishandle asserts that steel will continue to be essential due to its unique properties and the ability to use secondary raw materials, making it a sustainable choice for the long term. The discussion concludes with an audience question about the use of carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide in the fermentation process, highlighting the flexibility and adaptability of the technology as the steel industry transitions.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Fermentation Technologies
💡Decarbonization
💡CO2 Utilization
💡Gas Fermentation
💡Sustainable Aviation Fuel
💡Circular Economy
💡Green Steel
💡Carbon Capture and Utilization (CCU)
💡Biological Fermentation
💡Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs)
💡Steel Industry Decarbonization
Highlights
LanzaTech and Primetals Technologies have been collaborating for 10 years to develop gas fermentation solutions for decarbonizing the steel industry.
The partnership started with a joint cooperation agreement and Primetals becoming a shareholder in LanzaTech.
The first fruit of the collaboration is the LanzaTech plant in Europe, which recently produced its first fermentation from gases.
The LanzaTech process uses biology to transform CO2 and other waste gases from steel mills into renewable ethanol and other valuable chemicals.
The technology can utilize a range of feedstocks and produce various products, providing flexibility for the steel industry.
The process can help the steel industry reduce its carbon footprint while also creating new revenue streams from the production of sustainable chemicals.
The LanzaTech process is a key part of Primetals' strategy to support the decarbonization of the steel sector.
The partnership has recently been extended to accelerate the commercialization of LanzaTech's technology and enable decarbonization of the steel industry.
The European steel industry is leading the way in decarbonization, with major steelmakers setting intermediate targets for 2030 and a net-zero goal by 2050.
Carbon capture and utilization, including the LanzaTech process, will be critical to decarbonizing the steel industry, especially for assets that cannot be easily electrified.
LanzaTech's gas fermentation technology is modular and scalable, enabling it to be deployed at various scales to meet different needs.
The technology can use a mix of carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and hydrogen as inputs, providing flexibility as the steel industry transitions to different energy sources.
LanzaTech has developed a genetically modified organism that can produce additional chemicals like acetone and isopropanol from steel mill gases.
The technology can create a circular carbon economy, recycling carbon from steel production into new materials and chemicals.
The partnership between LanzaTech and Primetals is an example of large and small companies working together to create innovative solutions for decarbonization.
LanzaTech has a pipeline of six commercial plants that are operational or under construction, which will help reduce costs and improve the technology.
The technology has the potential to create a local supply chain for chemicals and materials by producing them at the time and place they are needed.
The LanzaTech process can also produce a protein-rich co-product from the bacteria used in the fermentation, which can be used as animal feed.
Steel is expected to remain the material of choice for a wide range of applications due to its unique properties and recyclability.
Transcripts
foreign
Lounge event that will focus on
fermentation Technologies for
decarbonizing the steel industry
for 10 years lansa Tech and Prime metals
have worked closely together to develop
new breakthrough gas fermentation
Solutions and very recently the partners
signed a second collaboration agreement
and today for this Green Lounge event
we have four specially invited speakers
here to discuss the partnership Jennifer
Holmgren CEO Atlanta Tech
Global business development director
lanzotec
Alexander fleishandle head of green
steel at primatals Technologies and Carl
porkatoffer Global head of services
primary Technologies
so without further Ado let's start the
panel discussion
the partnership between lanzotec and
Prime Metals technology started formally
10 years ago with the signing of a joint
cooperation agreement and primetals
becoming a shareholder of lanzotec
Jennifer could you please tell us more
about the early days of the
collaboration
um and basically how it all started
aberration is based on a shared belief
that that there is a need to decarbonize
the steel sector and
Prime Metals has always been focused on
technology the Green Technology
development and so we had the
opportunity to join forces to see how
their vision for green
car a green steel and our vision and our
approach could fit into their portfolio
and our first collaboration we worked
together on building our first plant in
Europe This is against plant steel and
all and actually this week we had the
first fermentation from gases again and
this is really the first fruit of that
collaboration and we hope to do a lot
more in the future
okay sounds great
offer your work with lancotec from the
get-go
what were the expectations on the
collaboration early on
now I have to say that uh
today as at that time you know we're
really excited about this uh
collaboration you know with Atlanta day
and uh we we are excited to work you
know with the technology we are excited
to work with the the people and the
story you know uh this uh is a great
story for the steel industry to bring
biotechnology to the steel industry and
the expectation is is today is the same
that we together will work on Solutions
you know to to solve the problems of
tomorrow and today and I think there's
great potential still to be explored I
think we we have you know explored a lot
and have achieved a lot but I think
there's more ways to to get uh you know
this integration between our you know
Technologies and the landside technology
is moving away from an end of pipe
technology and integrating it into the
steel industry and I think they are
there as much more exploration
possibilities and Potentials in the
future but bringing together the
expertise of Steel making and the plant
building with the technology of Lancer
dig is a great story and we still
believe in it yeah
indeed a great story
um steel and all is a joint project
between Oracle metal lanzotec and Prime
Metals Technologies and actually we're
happy to announce that the first
European lands attack unit started up
earlier this month June and the plant
will take carbon Rich waste gases from
the blast furnace and produce renewable
ethanol for application in various
Industries
um
Sonia could you please tell us more
about the technology behind this carbon
smart process yeah sure I mean who could
believe that biology can transform CO2
gases or co-age gases in the steel
industry so this is like a dream coming
true it's like a biological fermentation
where you take the gases through the
microbes sitting in Germany and
analogies going with the beer
fermentation it works very well actually
so so we ferment the gases and make
ethanol out of it and that ethanol can
go into various other products in the
value chain for carbon smart for for
sustainable aviation fuel and all the
stuff and that that's not the end of the
story right Lanza Tech has been very
Innovative company and we went on to the
journey to make different molecules the
ethanol is just one of the molecules we
started and there's number of molecules
in the supply chain value chain coming
up and also technology works on the
hardware and software sort of thing that
we can very flexibly take many of the
feedstocks and also produce many of the
products you can still keep the same
hardware for as long as you would like
to keep in so I mean this is this is a
great story of having biological
fermentation into the Steel Bill and
that works very well to produce these
amazing products
interesting and speaking of of steel
mills Alexander could you uh please tell
us more about the main benefits for the
steel industry with this unique
fermentation process
well um basically we we are heading
towards the colonization right and
Prime Metals is a technology agnostic
company so we have to follow every
pathway that supports the decolonization
of the steel sector and it's an hard
debate sector so it's not easy
uh while we're waiting for for the
hydrogen and for the massive amount of
Renewable Power being available to
decarbonize we prefer not to sit and
wait but to utilize the Technologies
they are ready today to be to be
implemented and ccus with lantadex
unique process is definitely available
it's still risked not only in gained but
before in in in China and all the other
projects on the on the way
so that's the the reason we be a strong
believer in the CC us technology in
lanzadex unique process and this now for
for many many years so I still remember
when Jennifer we met
early
2012 still in the old offices so it's
not only partnership it's uh it's it's a
friendship we share and I'm really happy
happy about that how these things
developed and I'm also happy that we
prolongated today with the signing
ceremony also our close call operation
so it is indeed a long-lasting
partnership for more than 15 years you
have developed groundbreaking solution
to support the the carbonization of the
heavy industry as mentioned earlier just
recently Lance attack can prime Metals
extended the collaboration
um could you give us a sneak peek of
what's coming up next
yeah I think we we all realize that
there are massive challenges in steel
industry to to go into green steel and
we completely as Jennifer said before
actually we completely admire what prime
Metals is doing to really make green
steel you can take the example of this
Green Lounge orange is green and all the
stuff what you're doing great job hats
off to you guys so certainly Lanza Tech
also sees a huge sort of potential there
with Corporation cooperation with prime
metals to take the technology take the
challenge to enable our steel customers
to make green steel if possible tomorrow
not to wait for three years five years
when you have all this infrastructure
with all those hydrogen and everything
so technology is ready to go and work
together with prime Metals we really
want to accelerate commercialization of
Lanza tech technology and also enable
decarbonization axillary decarbonation
for the steel industry as quickly as we
can so this is what we're going to
achieve over the next few years together
with prime metal that's our objective
correct
absolutely correct
so thanks let's have a an outlook here
future outlook how will the steel
industry look like in 10 years in your
mind Alexander well I would say 10 years
is a pretty short Outlook and when we
talk about this still distilled sector
so
um if I look into the crystal ball I
would say in 10 years it it won't look
so different from from today
there for sure will be some movements
especially in the European steel sector
with implementation of more electric Arc
furnaces so it's going toward
electrification but 10 years is a short
time frame so well in 10 years we will
still still see most of the blast
furnaces there that are producing hot
metal still in place if we talk about 20
40 20 50 it might look differently so
our forecast is that after 2050
the the capacity of the plus furnace
production will have
but if we look into India into southeast
Asia we will have many new Blasphemous
assets even in 2030 2040 so and that's
also our strong belief the the only way
to decarbonize this relatively new Blast
Furnace assets is carbon capture storage
and utilization and I'm also a strong
believer in the utilization so there
will be a massive amount that we are
going to capture in in CO2 but the best
way is not to sequestrate it the best
way is to give the carbon a second
second life and that's all about the
story of carbon smart
Carl would you like to add something
yeah man I'm basically in line here with
the lxas I mean what we will see in 10
years is my eafs more DIY a little
hydrogen you know use also more and more
but as we know the steel industry is not
the most disruptive industry uh you know
and we have a more transformational way
in in change but uh what I want to say
here is that we sometimes I think also
our industry needs to move Boulder you
know we want to see more builder moves
when when we see you know the uh the
emerging countries for example and I'm
traveling a lot we see here much more
you know uh aggressiveness in technology
adaptation rate I mean the technology
adaptation rate is just amazing you know
when you look uh specifically into Asia
how fast they move and I think I wish
also in the western world that we are
sometimes more aggressive moving forward
into new technologies sometimes I feel
that you know we are
you know present in the discussion about
the return on investment
what the technology bring what is the
business case but if you have a vision
you know you need to go for it if you
believe in it and sometimes I think we
are here a little bit captured in this
discussion and I think also we all love
Tesla you know a lot of people maybe
drive electric cars but I think when
Elon Musk would have always based his
decisions on the ROI you know I think we
have no electric cars on the road today
and this is I think something where
where we need to move and that's
something we want to see in the future
thank you
so green steel is indeed
um probably the main facilitator for the
steel industry in Europe and there are
many interesting developments right now
going on and Alexander could you give us
an update on the current situation in
Europe
within the field of green steel
production yeah well Europe is indeed
ahead and leading the decarbonization a
story and that all started as all of the
audience will know with uh with the
announcement of the green deal and the
whole subsequent uh supporting
mechanisms and recently now with the new
ETS and sebum and now with the new
industrial act coming into coming into
place with governmental funding and so
on so most of the European steel mills
have set a sound password plan how to to
decarbonize but anyhow this
decarbonization will will come in in
phases
so there are intermediate targets and
most of the major steel makers have set
intermediate Target for 2030 and Target
then at least the latest to be Net Zero
by by 20 2050 and the if we look there
is not one single way to it to achieve
that the net serial Target in 20 20 50.
so that's really a wide range of
Technologies and different strategies
they're going they're going to apply and
like the one also of Arsenal metal and
great having also Anderson sitting here
in the in the audience
for for Silo metal and in the integant
project I guess it really important and
and cool having now the first
industrial scale project and not only
saying a project it's it's it's just
amazing yeah from from the basis of the
design of the quality of the safety
there so it it's a showcase it's a real
Showcase in in Europe and I do hope that
with this showcase is
um we we will get the right response
from other steel makers that this is one
of the the pillars to achieve Net Zero
yeah thanks and you mentioned the 2058
Target obviously many blast furnaces
will be phased out by 2050.
um
Carl will CC us Technologies still be
relevant in the future
good question I mean uh yes indeed you
know to answer that straight I mean the
blast furnace says Alexa mentioned is
not going away
and you know at the end you know we have
all those numbers at the moment on the
table and on the slides you know we we
what we need to grade in these
Transformations enormous you know the
efforts when we cannot Electrify the
whole world huh you know we need to
Triple until 2050 I think I read this
article in uh in financial times this
week you know the triple the the you
know energy production to 90 beta what
hours or something like that and what is
with the infrastructure so you know the
grids have to be J so we cannot
Electrify everything you know so I think
there's a lot of questions to be uh
answered they are still open and that's
the reason why why we believe that
carbon capture is is a very important
solution for the future we need to
innovate more on those kind of solution
carbon capture utilization
uh and uh I think this uh there is a
much more innovative solutions out there
and I think uh that's the way we want to
go together with Lancer deck and then
also we believe in this circular economy
and I think this is the only way to go
and uh Jennifer in your mind what are
the key
um success factors for steel producers
who just got started with their efforts
to reduce their carbon footprint
the way I think about carbon footprint
is what's the right place for carbon so
today we use carbon for power production
we use carbon for fuels and we use
carbon for all of the materials we use
in our daily lives
we can start to couple Supply chains
like steel making where there is some
carbon that's a byproduct of the process
and it's being used chemically so you're
not going to displace that simply with
power you take that byproduct carbon and
you can recycle it and give it a second
chance then the second thing you end up
doing if you make a material is you keep
additional fossil in the ground
this linear supply chain that we have of
carbon from the ground to a product to
the air or to our oceans has to be
broken and so this is a way of breaking
it by recycling a carbon that was used
to make steel to make something else our
first project in Europe with our solar
middle is making ethanol if you go
across to the little booth that we have
you will see a Zara dress where the
polyester was made from a recycled
carbon at a steel mill in China we've
made dresses we've made running shorts
we've made Cody Cody has made the Gucci
they're Top Line perfume from this and
so if you take a step back you should
let it blow your mind right that a gas
that was going to be in the atmosphere
as particular emissions and greenhouse
gases instead was captured and converted
the things we use and need every day and
I think that circular economy is what
we're doing that circular economy is
what we're bringing as part of this
partnership with steel producers to
create a very different carbon economy
Net Zero is a great Target
but more importantly The Net Zero is how
to create a future where there is no
such thing as waste where there is no
such thing as pollution and and that's
what we're working towards that this is
a step in that Journey
great thanks and could you also tell us
a bit more about the next exciting
milestones for for Lance attack going
forward sure
um so we just took the company public
and our next Milestones are about
diffusing the technology working with
more steel companies but also we've got
plants in refineries we're starting to
use with Indian oil in in India we have
a plant we have plants also with
Municipal Solid Waste we can use many
resources so the next step for us is to
do more deployment and this is actually
why working with somebody like Prime
Metals is so important right the big
gorilla
helping us on this journey you're you're
the big gorilla he's just along for the
ride
um but you know it's about that journey
of big companies partnering with small
companies to create the future right and
and still come companies taking risks
right when our solar Metals said we're
going to deploy this we didn't have a
commercial plant anywhere and yet they
stepped up so I think the future is is
about partnership and the future is
about deploying and for us our biggest
Milestone is just to build more
facilities with companies that are
willing to say let's try something a
little different that creates a better
future
thank you building Partnerships is
indeed a key success factor and with
that we have actually come to the Q a
session so this is
an opportunity for you here in in the
audience to direct your questions to our
panelists here
so please go ahead yes we have a
question here
good morning thank you for this very
nice presentation and session my
question is about the market size for
the carbon utilization for the CO2
utilization assuming that all the
technology will be the same with Las
furnaces production in worldwide so do
you believe that we can develop around 2
billion ton market for the CO2 producers
in the world
yeah absolutely so
um
first thing to consider is that
the world uses a hundred billion gallons
of sustainable aviation fuel ethanol
produced from steel mill gas can be
converted to F to sustainable aviation
fuel so that's a massive Market just if
you consider decarbonizing Aviation so
imagine decarbonizing Aviation with a
solution that also decarbonizes steel
now then if you go beyond that ethanol
can be converted to ethylene ethylene is
the largest commodity chemical used
today in the petrochemical industry it
is the feedstock for almost everything
polyester polyethylene EVA foam this is
everywhere and so there's
hundreds of thousands actually millions
of tons of ethylene derived products
being made every day so we're not gonna
run out of places to do this and as a
second additional Milestone what we're
doing to go beyond which I didn't talk
about at all our original microbe that's
commercial is an actual organism that
we've optimized but we have learned how
to genetically modify the organism to
make acetone which is the basis for
acrylics to make isopropanol which is
the basis for polypropylene medical
plastic
plastic for your cars all of these
things are based on polypropylene so
there's a long journey in being able to
use gases from a steel mill
to make all the products we need I'm not
worried about running out of Market
any more questions
yes
it's a very inspiring you know to see
the the story I'd like to give you an
opportunity to talk a little bit about
when you started and I am interested to
to bring to the attention of everybody
that the transition that Alex was
talking about you know like in 10 years
20 years how in just a few years you
were able to be here with a
demonstration plant right and that gives
us hope that there are more to come
right that other approaches as well that
can be developed that will help us to
get to our Targets in 2050.
um do you want me to to start with that
um so lens attack's been around since
2005. it was founded in New Zealand and
our first commercial plan didn't start
up until 2018 and
it seems like a long time but it's a
really short time for a brand new
technology that nobody had ever done gas
fermentation and so
I want to highlight that we did a lot of
lab experiments but we also did a lot of
pilots and demos before we dared to say
that technology was ready for commercial
and the technology had to be optimized
to reduce the cost because we're making
a commodity material and so we optimized
the
bioreactor the process the vitamins this
has taken us it took 15 years for the
first one we're now on an 18-year
Journey the reason I want to say that is
because we have to be really conscious
of solutions and how much time it takes
to really grow a brand new solution and
I think that's why you asked me the
question it's there's no magic wand out
there that allows the technology to go
from the lab to commercial scale it's
just a lot of hard work a lot of
important Partnerships and and and it's
just a journey and and so I think if
that's what you were asking and I always
like to say that any technology that's
not being commercially practiced today
is not going to contribute in 2030. you
just can't put enough Steel in the
ground you know for us it takes a year
so sometimes to get a compressor for our
first commercial plan so for any
commercial plants so there's just no
shortening this timeline but what we can
do is work together faster to bring
other new technologies out and that's I
think the answer
I don't know if you want to add
yeah I think uh what I still see you
know is with any new technology you know
and we have this famous craft you know
when you go out on the coast side you
know that in the beginning very high the
cost you make the industrial application
but normally you run down and the the
experience you gain through this
industrialization you know then also the
impact and the the cost and the business
model in the future so I think there's
much more potential we see in the
technology and the further development
having this experience from the plants
and I think there we see much more
applications in the future and also
going into those different markets
that's fascinating for me and I think
all people in the steel industry get
when Jennifer talks about all these
chemical terms we all get scared because
it's not our world you know but at the
end we need to learn to with these kind
of terms and this uh this openness going
into different Industries and seeing all
this opportunity that's amazing yeah
thank you we still have time
so please go ahead if you have any
questions
yeah Jennifer you described you know all
the potential Market that could be out
there with steel mill gases right but
what do you think is really the
bottleneck is it really still maturing
that does the technology have to mature
more to get to larger scale or is it
economics of the product if you make
ethanol or whatever you're making is it
the is it the economics of that product
or is it technology or both or what I'm
trying to understand what's the rate
limiting step to get to large scale that
that's a great question and and what I
would say is
um we're gonna have by the end of this
year six commercial plants operating and
to me that's important because the more
you build
the cheaper it gets right the more you
can optimize the technology and reduce
cost and there's no question we have to
reduce costs if we want this to be
everywhere we need to get better at
building them in a way that makes more
economic sense
um so that's the first step
um but I think with every new technology
you eventually get to an exponential
curve I I'm sure you all remember solar
you know in 2010 we were all saying
solar is always going to be 10 years
away now everywhere you look there's a
solar installation and it's because
technology deploys exponentially and so
our goal is to reduce cost enough that
we get to that exponential part of the
curve in the next few years so that then
we're just deploying them massively in
parallel
so I think scale and and getting down
the cost over the two things I would
also say we're at the bottom gas
fermentation is brand new right as a
technology so we're at the bottom of our
learning curve we will we get more
efficient by the time a plant is built
we've got a Next Generation microbin and
Next Generation media recipe so we see
that change happening in real time so
Technology Innovation will be important
as well
there is still room for four questions
if you have anything more yes please go
ahead
hi I am Dinesh from Edom Consulting and
it was a wonderful presentation thank
you for the good discussion uh my
question is your uh you were discussing
about gas fermentation and genetically
modified organic organism
could you please elaborate a little bit
more about the process of this
technology
um
so
I'll I'll go ahead and answer it
um I could have let Sanjeev as well
um so what we do is is gas fermentation
so we have a bacteria that eats hydrogen
carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide and
actually I should say that that that
also makes it really nice for steel
because a steel transitions to hydrogen
from Blast Furnace if you transition in
a location you can still use the same
Reactor with CO2 and hydrogen because
I'm guessing the transition will involve
hydrogen so the bacteria efficiently
eats it it's like making beer from sugar
except instead of yeast we use bacteria
and instead of sugar we use these gases
now this is all done in a continuous
bioreactor you use the fermentation in a
reactor that is a batch you you mix
sugar and yeast and you let it go for
three months ones this happens in
seconds so the gas comes in it's
converted and the ethanol goes out
we recycle the water
we use vitamins and minerals because
just like you bacteria needs more than
just a carbon and and so that's all part
of the process and then the last thing
you should know is we have produced as a
co-product so the bacteria is alive in
this reactor that's full of water it is
dividing so you don't want it to plug
the reactor so you always take bacteria
out when you take the bacteria you dry
it
in China we sell it as animal food in
India we will sell it as animal food
it's protein rich and so it makes a good
co-product so we make ethanol and we
make bacteria that is dried and is a
co-product that is a natural organism
the one that makes ethanol next year
we'll be introducing a genetically
modified organism that we have taught
how to make other chemicals the first
ones will be acetone and isopropanol
and that
is something I get even more excited
about because the reactor that you have
built to make ethanol can also be used
to make other chemicals so you don't
have to build
what was here the arcilla middle reactor
you don't have to build another one you
just say the price of acetone is higher
I'm gonna for the next six months make
acetone instead of making ethanol and
and to me that's very exciting because
you can start imagine local Supply
chains making all the chemicals you need
at the time that you need them it's a
it's a very different way of thinking
about a carbon economy
thank you
we would still have time for one or a
few questions
if there is
anyone
okay one more yes
before that sorry I just I think Mr
manochi I think you have to leave for
your keynote speeches at start right
so I would like to thank you for your
participation and your insights thank
you so much and all the best for your
Keynotes
[Applause]
yes please go ahead thank you my
question is going to be divided in two
things the first one is how long do you
take in order to develop a project the
project with the size or the capacity of
capture and utilization that you have
today and how the ambition to grow to
scale up to a larger
capacity needed for Blast Furnace
capture
I I can start it off so well I would say
it's it's the same thing Jennifer
mentioned well you have to get to get
the first plant into operation you're
still learning curve you get better and
you get quicker you have to standardize
to modularize
and that's the basis that you get a
shorter project timeline yeah so well at
the at the end such type of of projects
are pretty pretty complex so it's large
scale
TurnKey infrastructure projects but what
what can be done for for sure at the end
is a timeline and I hope you agree
Jennifer on that is is around
two and a half years
uh if well they can always come
something in between yeah if we look on
on again twisty pandemic and and
whatever that holds you up here but
let's assume everything runs well it's
modernized optimized two and a half
years uh from uh from signing of the of
the contract till hot commissioning
only other thing I would add is
um the reactors are modular so it's
quite scalable and we've also done some
new reactor developments so now we can
get two times the throughput in the same
reactor size so we're we're constantly
improving but it it's it's a very
scalable process I think
yes I have one more question uh just one
more question this is to Mr Alexander
my question is we talked about green
hydrogen we are talking about ccos and
we also talk about the economics
involved in this
my question is
do you find any risk of any other
Advanced Metal or material could take up
on Steel
to replace steel to replace steel yes no
I don't think so so uh Still Still uh
has come to stay for forever so if you
look on the advancement of the
properties of of Steel it's still an
exponential curve uh just look on
quality of Automotive sheets so the
sheets become much thinner
with small tensile strengths when we
talk about Advanced high steel strengths
we're going now into really hard
materials when we talk about steel for
for uh going into the energy sector
immobility sector so silica silicon
steel at the end and this advancement
will will go for forever so steel is the
material to stay and the main reason is
because it's the only material that you
can
use a secondary raw material again and
again and again so every ton of Steel is
is used multiple times at the end of the
of the life cycle so I don't see any
reason why any other material should
replace steel even on the long term
thank you
thank you for all your questions really
well appreciated
um we would have time for one yes
sorry we have a question from this side
about carbon monoxide you mentioned
before that is a mix between carbon
monoxide and carbon dioxide but this
technology can be based also or which is
the percentage of carbon dioxide and
monoxide or full carbon dioxide this can
be can be used yes so the the way to
think about it is the organism can use
carbon monoxide it has carbon and energy
and so all it needs is carbon monoxide
it uses water to make hydrogen so all it
needs is carbon monoxide
if you have carbon dioxide carbon
dioxide only has carbon it has no energy
so to convert carbon dioxide you have to
bring in hydrogen so then the organism
uses the energy from the hydrogen to
make the products but it makes the same
products carbon monoxide or carbon
dioxide and hydrogen
if um
you have carbon monoxide
and you add hydrogen you just get higher
yields because you don't take any carbon
monoxide to make you know hydrogen right
you don't have to do that and so it's
actually a beautiful system in my mind
because as the steel industry
transitions
first is carbon monoxide
then you start to have some green
hydrogen available now you use the same
system to increase your ethanol yield
you add hydrogen you make more money
more product
and then someday there is no more carbon
monoxide at that site now you use carbon
dioxide and probably the only reason you
can do that is because you've got
hydrogen so you're on a journey of
transition using this so it's it's kind
of cool it's the only way I describe it
but but always think about carbon and
energy in thinking about how the
organism works
any more questions
so if not I would like to thank you all
for participating
and follow all your questions of course
and a special thanks to our panelists
here as well for sharing your insights
thank you so much
[Applause]
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