Timothy O'Connor - What’s the Stuff of Mind and Brain?

Summary

视频脚本探讨了意识的本质，提出了两种截然不同的观点：一种认为所有心智活动完全基于大脑的物理活动，另一种则认为存在某种精神或灵魂的二元论。讨论者提出了一种“软二元论”的观点，认为虽然我们的意识体验依赖于大脑的适当功能，但这些体验本身并不是物理状态的简单复制。他们认为意识体验是大脑状态的因果产物，但具有不同于物理属性的属性，即所谓的感受质。这种观点试图在物理主义和二元论之间找到一个中间立场，强调了意识体验在自然世界中的因果统一性和独特性。

Takeaways

• 🧠 意识的本质是对话的核心议题，Tim博士通过神经生理学研究探索意识和大脑电活动之间的关系。
• 🧬 存在两种对立的意识理论：一种认为所有心理现象都基于大脑的物质活动，另一种认为存在某种非物质的灵魂或精神。
• 🤔 Tim提出了一种“软二元论”，认为意识可能既依赖于大脑的物质状态，又具有非物质的特性。
• 🔬 科学上，人们通常认为人的思想和体验完全依赖于大脑的功能，但大脑的复杂活动是否完全等同于我们的心理生活仍是一个开放问题。
• 🏌️‍♂️ 历史上的哲学家，如柏拉图，将心灵视为控制身体的非物质实体，但现代科学认为这种观点与实际不符。
• 🤯 意识的产生与大脑的特定功能紧密相关，例如，大脑受到损伤可能导致意识丧失。
• 🔄 意识体验与大脑的物理状态密切相关，但可能存在一种“质的”（qualia）体验，这种体验是主观的，无法仅通过物理状态来完全描述。
• 🔮 未来神经科学可能能够通过监测大脑活动来预测人的思考和感受，但这不意味着能够完全理解意识体验的本质。
• 💭 意识体验可能是大脑正确配置时产生的效果，但它们本身并不等同于任何物理状态，而是物理状态的因果产物。
• 🤲 意识体验具有因果效应，可以影响物理世界，例如，渴望喝水的想法可能导致实际伸手去拿水杯的动作。
• 🌐 这种观点认为，尽管意识体验在物理上完全依赖于大脑，但它们在性质上与物理状态是不同的，代表了一种属性二元论。

Q & A

提姆博士的博士研究领域是什么？

提姆博士的博士研究领域是神经生理学，专注于大脑的电生理活动，探索人类意识和意识状态的本质。

在提姆博士看来，关于意识的两种截然不同的观点是什么？

一种是物质主义观点，认为所有心智活动都基于大脑；另一种是二元论观点，认为存在某种灵魂或精神的非物质实体。

提姆博士提到的“软二元论”是什么意思？

软二元论是一种介于物质主义和传统二元论之间的观点，它认为意识体验虽然依赖于大脑的物理状态，但它们本身并不是物理状态。

为什么提姆博士认为传统的二元论观点在当代知识体系下显得不合理？

因为现代科学已经证明，我们的思考和意识状态与大脑的功能紧密相关，例如大脑受到损伤时，我们的意识会受到影响甚至消失。

提姆博士如何看待大脑与意识体验之间的关系？

他认为大脑的特定配置能够产生我们的意识体验，但这些体验本身并不是物理状态，而是物理状态的因果产物。

提姆博士提到的“质的属性”(qualia)是什么？

质的属性指的是主观体验的特性，例如看到颜色、尝到味道时的个人感受，这些是内在的、主观的现象。

为什么提姆博士认为意识体验不能完全归结为大脑的物理状态？

因为意识体验具有独特的主观性，这种主观性与物理状态紧密相关，但它们在本质上是不同的，不能简单地等同。

提姆博士如何看待意识体验对大脑状态的影响？

他认为意识体验不仅是大脑状态的产物，也能反过来影响大脑状态，例如我们想要喝水的欲望可以导致我们伸手去拿水杯的物理动作。

提姆博士提到的“属性二元论”(property dualism)是什么意思？

属性二元论认为，尽管意识体验在物理上依赖于大脑的复杂状态，但它们在属性上与物理状态不同，具有自己独特的属性。

提姆博士认为属性二元论与物质主义相比有哪些优势？

属性二元论提供了一个统一的自然世界视角，其中意识体验是现实的一部分，并且具有自己的影响力，这与物质主义认为意识体验仅仅是大脑状态的副产品的观点不同。

提姆博士如何看待意识体验的因果关系？

他认为意识体验虽然完全依赖于大脑的适当功能，但它们在因果上与大脑状态是不同的，意识体验是大脑状态的结果，但具有自己的存在和影响力。

Outlines

00:00

🧠 大脑与意识的探索

这段视频脚本讲述了Tim对意识本质的长期迷恋，他通过神经生理学的博士研究，探索大脑的电生理活动，试图理解人类意识和意识的来源。他提出了两种对立的观点：一种是所有心理活动都基于大脑的物质活动；另一种是存在某种二元论，即不朽的灵魂或精神。Tim倾向于一种软二元论，即意识体验可能不仅仅是大脑的物理状态，而是大脑状态的一种产物，但具有其独特的属性。他强调了我们对意识体验的主观感受，认为这些体验与大脑的物理活动紧密相连，但又不完全相同。

05:02

🌟 意识体验与物理状态的区分

在第二段中，Tim进一步探讨了意识体验与大脑物理状态之间的关系。他认为，尽管我们的意识体验在因果上完全依赖于大脑的正确运作，但这些体验本身并不等同于任何物理状态。他提出了一种称为属性二元论的观点，即存在两种基本属性：物理属性和心理属性。物理属性是复杂且有结构的，而心理属性，如体验的色彩和味道，是根本不同的属性。Tim认为，尽管心理属性完全由物理状态引起，但它们具有独立的存在，并且能够影响物理状态，从而反驳了心理状态仅仅是大脑状态的副产品的论点。

Keywords

💡意识

意识是指个体对自身和外界的感知、思考和认识能力。在视频中，意识被探讨为人类心智的核心特征，是研究者试图通过神经生理学来理解的复杂现象。例如，视频提到'我们的意识和感知能力是我们非常重视的心智生活的一部分'，说明了意识在个体生活中的重要性。

💡神经生理学

神经生理学是研究神经系统功能，特别是大脑如何产生行为和心理过程的科学。视频中提到研究者通过神经生理学研究大脑的电生理活动，以探索意识的本质，如'我做了我的博士学位，在神经生理学上，研究大脑的电生理活动'。

💡物质主义

物质主义是一种哲学观点，认为一切现象，包括心智状态，都可以归结为物质过程，特别是大脑的活动。视频提到'一种观点是，一切都是基于大脑的'，反映了这种观点认为心智状态完全依赖于大脑的物质活动。

💡二元论

二元论是哲学中的一种观点，认为心灵和身体是两种不同的实体。视频提到'另一种观点是存在某种二元性'，指的是心灵（或灵魂）与身体（或物质）的分离。

💡软二元论

软二元论是一种认为心理状态与物理状态既非完全相同也非完全分离的哲学立场。视频中提到'你谈到了一种似乎是混合的，软二元论'，表明这种观点试图在物质主义和传统二元论之间找到中间地带。

💡物理属性

物理属性是指物质或实体可以观察到的自然属性，如质量、电荷等。视频中提到'我们有生物属性、物理属性'，强调了人类作为物理存在的本质。

💡心理属性

心理属性是指与个体的心智状态相关的属性，如感受、思想和欲望。视频指出'我们有这些体验，但它们本身不是任何物理状态的相同物'，强调了心理属性与物理状态的区别。

💡表征

表征是指对某事物的描述或解释。在视频中，表征用于讨论意识状态如何被大脑活动所描述，但这种描述并不捕捉体验本身的性质，如'他们可能给出的对你大脑中正在发生的事情的描述，并没有捕捉到体验本身的性质'。

💡质的

质的（Qualia）是指个体主观体验的性质，如感觉、情感等。视频中提到'所谓的质的，即坐在这儿摸桌子、看你的黑衬衫的感觉'，强调了这种主观体验的独特性和不可还原性。

💡因果关系

因果关系是指一个事件（原因）直接导致另一个事件（结果）发生的关系。视频讨论了意识体验与大脑状态之间的因果关系，如'即使意识体验在因果上完全依赖于我的大脑的正常功能，也不意味着它与那些体验是相同的'。

💡表征现象

表征现象是指某些心理状态似乎只是大脑状态的产物，而没有自己的因果特性。视频提到'这被称为表征现象，意味着它只是在那里，没有自己的因果特性'，探讨了心理状态是否只是大脑活动的副产品。

💡属性二元论

属性二元论是一种哲学立场，认为即使心理状态和物理状态在因果上相互依赖，它们在属性上仍然是不同的。视频中提到'这就是所谓的属性二元论'，强调了即使心理状态由物理状态产生，它们也有自己独特的存在方式。

Highlights

Tim博士对意识的本质进行了深入研究，探讨了人类意识和大脑电生理活动之间的关系。

存在两种截然不同的观点：一是所有心智活动都基于大脑，二是存在某种二元论，即精神或灵魂。

提出了一种“软二元论”的观点，即意识可能是一种大脑复杂状态的产物，但并非完全等同于物理状态。

我们的思想和体验与大脑的功能紧密相关，但意识状态的本质可能超出了大脑活动的物理描述。

历史上人们曾认为身体像机器一样被心灵控制，心灵是意识的中心，拥有自己的属性。

现代知识认为柏拉图关于心灵的观点似乎不可信，因为大脑的特定功能方式控制着我们是否能够思考。

大脑的某些部分负责不同的感官和思考模式，表明我们感知的统一性可能是一个幻觉。

提出了一种中间观点，即大脑在适当配置下产生意识体验，但这些体验本身并非物理状态。

未来神经科学家可能能够通过复杂计算机监测大脑活动来预测人的思考和感受。

意识体验的主观性质（所谓的感受质）是与物理现象紧密相连的，但似乎有其独特性。

提出了一种观点，即意识体验是大脑状态的因果产物，但它们本身并非物理状态。

讨论了意识体验是否具有因果特性，即它们是否能够影响大脑状态并引发物理事件。

提出了一种观点，即意识状态可能是大脑状态的副产品，但这种观点存在问题。

如果意识状态是大脑状态的产物，并且具有独立存在，那么它们可能能够反过来影响大脑状态。

提出了属性二元论的观点，即意识体验是物理属性之外的另一种属性，它们是由物理状态引起的。

这种观点认为自然世界在因果上是统一的，但意识体验赋予了自然世界新的意义。

属性二元论提供了一种解释，即我们的思考和体验对事物的发展有根本性的影响。

Transcripts

Tim I've been obsessed with the nature

of Consciousness my entire life so much

so that I did my doctorate in

neurophysiology the electrical activity

of the brain searching for what is it

about the human mind that that makes us

conscious and aware of things uh and it

seems like there are two radically

different views one is that everything

that is mental is entirely based on the

brain most brain scientists my

associates think that way the other of

course that there's some dualism and IM

mortal Soul some kind of spirit thing

you've talked about something that seems

like a hybrid kind of a a soft

dualism how can that

work so we know about ourselves human

beings that our thoughts our our

experiences everything about our mental

life that we uh value so highly is deep

dependent on the functioning of our

brain we know that uh but then the

question is well what what are the

nature of those States um that depend on

the brain is is everything that goes on

in US mentally speaking just without

remainder the activity highly complex

activity of nested structures in our

brain electrophysical activity or is

there something

extra historically people have thought

you've got two basic options you could

just say human beings are material

through and through

uh they just are living organisms and

their their minds just are their brains

and nervous systems functioning in the

right environment the other view says no

the body is like a machine that our mind

controls our mind is something else it's

our soul our our it's the center of

Consciousness it has its own properties

just like our body has distinctive

there's a ghost in our machine there's a

ghost in the machine uh and but that

ghost is the the thing that has all the

it's it's the real me and it's the thing

that interacts with my body as Plato

said going all the way back in Western

philosophy uh like a uh the captain of a

ship the ship being the body and you've

got this Captain is the the minded

reality uh Plato's conception of the

mind just seems deeply implausible on

contemporary knowledge it's not just

that I need my brain to function in

order to think the particular ways the

brain functions in very subtle ways

control whether or not I think at all

right uh you somebody hits me over the

head with a baseball bat I cease to be

conscious right there's no no conscious

thought whatsoever let's assume I I I

survive this but for a period of time

I'm unconscious it would seem like on

Plato's view it should be as if the

pilot loses control over the ship and is

sort of no longer can steer the ship but

the pilot can still think his thoughts

but that's not what H happens right so

it seems like our thoughts are are

intimately intertwined with the activity

of the brain and its proper functioning

sure and we we sense this Unity that

everything we have is is one Unity but

if something happens in one part of the

brain I won't be able to see or I won't

be able to read or I won't be able to

talk and everything else will be the

same so it's very clear that different

parts of the brain uh uh are responsible

for different modalities of sense and

thinking and so that what seems to be a

Unity is is an illusion of unity then

there's all this dispersion so no doubt

that that's right so you're pushing me

towards a very

materialistic point of view that says

that you all this Soul stuff is is

ancient history and what we are is our

physical grade yeah but I want to stop

short I I think it's possible to to to

have a a Midway sort of view uh imagine

that um we we don't yet uh have the

capacity to completely predict what

someone is thinking what they're feeling

on the basis of monitoring activity in

the brain but imagine in the fure future

neuroscientists of the future can hook

up your brain to complex computers and

the information gets processed and they

could say you're thinking about the

problem of Consciousness right now and

you're also feeling hungry and you're

the various conscious features you have

right now

um the description they might give of

what's going on in your brain though is

not capturing even if it captures causal

conditions on those conscious experience

it's not capturing the nature of the

experience itself right the so-called

quali what character feels like to be

sitting here and touch the table and see

your black shirt I mean that has a a

feeling to it there's a personal sense

to that it's an inherently subjective

phenomena that no doubt is intimately

bound up with the right kind of physical

complex phenomena but it it seems

distinct and it's hard we we don't seem

to be able to make anything of the idea

that these subjective experiences just

are spread out complex brain States uh

so what what are we to do well uh I

think the way to think about it is to

say that our brains when configured in

the right sort of way give rise to our

conscious experience cause us to have

conscious experience thoughts desires

and so forth uh but we don't need

anything else we don't need anything

else uh so so we are fundamentally

biological beings and below that

fundamentally physical beings uh but so

we we have these experiences but they

are themselves not identical to any

physical state they're they're simply a

causal product of the physical States in

a continuous ongoing evolving changing

way and causality mean if a causes B A

and B must be distinct from one another

so even though conscious experience

wholly depends causally on the proper

functioning of my brain that doesn't

mean it's identical those experiences so

just one thing here bi I'm a biological

thing uh but I've got biological

properties physical properties and yet

I've also got these experiential

properties the so-called qualia of

experience and they interact so my

experiences just as they are the product

of uh the nature of my brain at any

given moment they also in turn effect

because we think my desire for a glass

of water can lead in the right

circumstances to a physical event of my

reaching for a glass of water so that's

a harder move to make okay the first

move where the brain is producing these

things that we have this conscious

feeling one can make that argument to

where I feel that that's legitimate um

but it could be sort of what we call

epiphenomenal which means it's sort of

there it's sort of riding the crest of

this wave but it it has no causal

features that go back down because if

you're if you're now saying it can go

the other way where what you've created

from brain States is now has some

independent existence uh still 100%

caused by it

now that that can go back and change the

brain state that seems like a harder

move to make uh well this idea of uh

mental States being epiphenomenal being

uh distinct from but merely the the

effects of brain States and not doing

anything in their own right uh I would

say is a deeply problematic idea and

ultimately it it becomes a a paradoxical

conception of ourselves first of all

it's it's it's problematic because

everything we know about in in the world

does something it has some influence

right the lowliest pebble on a beach has

some gravitational influence on what's

going on around it so reality is causal

through and through so if it's right

that uh organized brains give rise to

special kinds of states that are

irreducible to the underlying brain

States they're caused they do they're

caused by brain States but not reducible

to brain States yes but so what are they

they are subjective States you can only

know about them directly ly by having

those States but they are composed of

all the physical properties of neurons

that create this no they're not they're

not physically composed at all they're

they're utterly physically dependent on

the complex state of the brain but they

are properties of the the looks of

colors and the the tastes of of of

subjective experience we have when we

taste things these are different

fundamentally different kinds of

properties is this so-called property

dualism as opposed to substance dualism

substance dualism being there's a real

separate platonic Soul or Spirit from

some you know religious spirit that's a

real separate substance but this is a a

property dualism yes I think that would

be a way to to characterize what I'm

saying you've got a duality when it

comes to conscious beings you've got a

fundamental duality of properties

physical properties which are highly

complex and structured in our case

because we're very complex physical

beings and then these mental properties

which are not identical to physical

properties these are not CH properties

of charge mass and the sorts of

properties these physicists attribute to

but they are all caused by those

properties caused by those properties so

the question is is that a distinction

which it is a distinction therefore

property DS is that a distinction

without a difference because you're

still locked into the material world

100% uh I I I think it's it is a

distinction with a difference because it

it means that they are realities in

their own right and they have an

influence it seems to me a virtue of

this way of thinking about it not a

drawback that it posits that the the

natural world is at the end of the day a

Unity causally speaking it's one unified

totality we don't have to have Minds

coming from from nowhere somehow even

though they don't have spao temporal

location interacting with bodies that do

have very precise spatiotemporal

locations so it's a virtue of of of the

this picture that it's one unified

totality but unlike materialism it uh

affords us a picture on which our

thoughts and experiences make a

fundamental difference to how things on

fault