Joker: Folie a Deux - The Sequel Nobody Wanted

Summary

The reviewer expresses disappointment in *Joker 2*, feeling that it fails to justify its existence as a sequel. Despite strong performances from Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga, the movie is seen as unnecessary and lacking the complexity of the original. The film reverts Arthur Fleck's character back to his weaker self and features musical numbers that, while entertaining, serve more as distractions from an uninspired drama. The story explores Arthur's trial and relationships, but the courtroom scenes feel like dry recaps, diminishing the ambiguity that made the first *Joker* so compelling.

Takeaways

• 🎬 The first Joker movie was an unexpected success, overcoming many factors that should have worked against it.
• 💡 Joker's small, intimate, and complex story resonated with audiences, largely due to Joaquin Phoenix's outstanding performance.
• 🤔 There were initial doubts about the necessity of a Joker sequel, especially given its announcement as a musical starring Lady Gaga.
• ⚖️ Joker 2 picks up after Arthur Fleck's arrest and confinement in Arkham Asylum, with the plot centering around his trial and romantic relationship with a woman named Lee Quinn.
• 🃏 The film explores Arthur’s Joker persona and whether it is a split personality or part of him all along.
• 🎭 While Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga give strong performances, the film struggles with the same compelling intensity as the first movie.
• 💔 Joker 2 focuses on the idea of celebrity, myth vs. reality, but doesn't deliver the same impact as the original film.
• 📉 Arthur's character regresses, undoing his final transformation from the first movie, which feels like a frustrating deconstruction to the reviewer.
• 🎶 The musical elements, although performed well, feel like distractions from the film's otherwise uninspiring drama.
• 😕 Ultimately, Joker 2 feels like a bloated, unnecessary sequel that fails to live up to the original’s ambiguity and psychological depth.

Q & A

What was the initial perception of the first *Joker* movie according to the script?

The first *Joker* movie was initially perceived as a risky project with many potential flaws. It was a low-budget film about a Batman villain that no one seemed to want, directed by Todd Phillips, known for comedies. The film also faced accusations from the media of promoting violence and misogyny.

What made the first *Joker* movie unexpectedly successful?

The first *Joker* movie became successful because it told a small, intimate, and complex story of a man pushed into madness by an indifferent society. Joaquin Phoenix’s performance and the film's ability to raise more questions than answers contributed to its unexpected success.

What concerns did the script's author express about a sequel to the *Joker*?

The author was perplexed by the decision to make a sequel to *Joker*, especially because the first film felt complete and did not require continuation. The author was also concerned about the sequel being a musical co-starring Lady Gaga, fearing it could undermine the integrity of the original.

How did the author feel after watching *Joker 2*?

The author found *Joker 2* to be a dull, bloated, and ultimately unnecessary movie. Although there were talented people working on the film and the ending sparked discussions, the movie felt uninspired and failed to answer the question of why it even existed.

What is the central storyline of *Joker 2* as described in the script?

In *Joker 2*, Arthur Fleck is locked up in Arkham Asylum after being arrested for the murders in the first film. His lawyer argues insanity, while prosecutor Harvey Dent pushes for the death penalty. Arthur starts a romance with a woman named Lee Quinn, but the film questions whether her interest is in Arthur or his Joker persona.

What themes are explored in *Joker 2* based on the script?

The movie explores themes such as the intoxicating danger of celebrity and the divide between myth and reality. It questions how much of Arthur’s personality was the Joker all along and delves into the interactions between Arthur and Lee Quinn, leaving the audience wondering which moments were real.

How does the portrayal of Arthur Fleck in *Joker 2* differ from the first film?

In *Joker 2*, Arthur regresses to his timid, weak personality from the beginning of the first film, which the author finds frustrating. The deconstruction of Arthur's character feels like a regression instead of development, undoing the cathartic moment when Arthur embraced his Joker persona at the end of the first movie.

What is the author’s view on the musical numbers in *Joker 2*?

Surprisingly, the author enjoyed the musical performances, particularly those by Lady Gaga, but ultimately felt they were used as distractions to cover up a weak and uninspired narrative. The musical numbers provided spectacle but couldn’t elevate the film’s dull courtroom scenes.

How does the courtroom narrative affect the story of *Joker 2*?

The courtroom scenes in *Joker 2* feel like a dry recap of the first film, destroying the ambiguity that made the original intriguing. Instead of allowing for multiple interpretations, the film lays out exactly what happened, which the author views as a waste of the original’s mystery.

What conclusion does the author reach about *Joker 2*?

The author concludes that *Joker 2* is an unnecessary sequel. Despite the talents involved, the film failed to justify its existence and left the author feeling bored and disconnected at times, unlike the original *Joker*.

Outlines

00:00

🤯 Unexpected Success of the First Joker Movie

The first Joker movie was an unlikely success, surpassing expectations despite its low budget and controversial reputation. Directed by Todd Phillips, known for comedies, it faced skepticism for potentially promoting violence and misogyny. However, the film’s intimate, complex portrayal of Arthur Fleck’s descent into madness, set against an indifferent society, resonated with audiences. Joaquin Phoenix delivered a standout performance, making the unreliable narrator aspect captivating. The film's ambiguous ending left viewers with more questions than answers, making it feel like a perfect standalone film, which is why the announcement of a sequel surprised many.

05:01

🎶 Concerns and Doubts About the Sequel

The announcement of a sequel to the Joker movie, especially one as a musical featuring Lady Gaga, raised concerns. The narrator, like many fans, felt a mix of confusion and worry about whether this sequel was necessary and feared it could undermine the integrity of the original film. While attempting to suppress these concerns, they ultimately concluded that the sequel fell short. Despite talented actors and a conversation-sparking ending, Joker 2 felt long, unnecessary, and didn't seem to justify its existence, leaving audiences wondering why the film was made in the first place.

Keywords

💡Joker

The Joker refers to the main character of the film, Arthur Fleck, who becomes the infamous Batman villain. In this video, the Joker's transformation from a weak, victimized personality to a mad, chaotic figure is central to the narrative. The sequel explores the consequences of this transformation and questions whether the character's development regresses or progresses.

💡Arthur Fleck

Arthur Fleck is the man behind the Joker persona. In the first movie, he struggles with mental illness, societal neglect, and violent tendencies, eventually fully embracing his chaotic identity as the Joker. The sequel presents him once again in a more subdued, timid state, which contrasts with the first movie's ending where he appeared to have fully transformed.

💡Arkham Asylum

Arkham Asylum is a mental institution in Gotham City where Arthur Fleck is imprisoned after his crimes in the first film. In the sequel, the setting plays a key role as it is where Arthur's relationship with Lee Quinn begins, and where much of the introspection into his mental state occurs. It serves as the backdrop for his trial and psychological exploration.

💡Lady Gaga

Lady Gaga plays a key role in the sequel as Lee Quinn, a woman who develops a twisted romance with Arthur Fleck. Her performance is noted in the video as being surprisingly strong, highlighting her ability to embody the ‘crazy super fan’ character. Her presence also ties into the musical elements of the film, with her character adding complexity to the Joker’s story.

💡Musical

The musical aspect of the Joker sequel is a significant shift from the original movie. The video highlights the concern many had when it was announced that the sequel would incorporate musical numbers, which seemed like an odd fit for the gritty tone of the original. Despite this skepticism, the musical numbers in the film are praised for their spectacle, although they are also seen as distractions from a weak narrative.

💡Romance

Romance in the sequel is primarily explored through the relationship between Arthur Fleck and Lee Quinn. The video discusses how this relationship is central to the narrative, with the film questioning whether Lee is genuinely interested in Arthur or merely infatuated with his Joker persona. This dynamic adds a layer of psychological complexity to the film, contrasting with traditional romantic plots.

💡Courtroom scenes

The courtroom scenes in the sequel are a major narrative device, as Arthur's actions from the first film are scrutinized, and his mental state is put on trial. These scenes serve to recap much of the first movie’s events, which the video critiques as unnecessary and lacking the ambiguity that made the original film intriguing. They are framed as dry and uninspired, failing to add new depth to the story.

💡Harvey Dent

Harvey Dent is introduced as the prosecutor seeking the death penalty for Arthur Fleck’s crimes. In the Batman lore, Dent eventually becomes the villain Two-Face, but in this movie, he is simply a legal adversary pushing for Arthur's punishment. His presence adds tension to the trial and represents the societal desire for retribution.

💡Character regression

Character regression refers to the video’s critique that Arthur Fleck’s development in the sequel feels like a step backward. After fully embracing his Joker persona in the first film, he is portrayed as timid and unsure again, which the video suggests undermines his earlier transformation. This perceived regression is seen as a disappointment and a missed opportunity for deeper character growth.

💡Ambiguity

Ambiguity was a key element in the first Joker movie, where much of the narrative was left open to interpretation, particularly regarding what events actually happened and what was part of Arthur's delusions. The video criticizes the sequel for stripping away this ambiguity by definitively showing what happened in the first film, which removes the sense of mystery and psychological depth that made the original compelling.

Highlights

The first Joker movie was a rare instance of cinematic serendipity, where everything that should have been wrong came together to create a brilliant film.

The Joker dared to tell a small, intimate, and complex story of a man pushed into madness by a society that was indifferent to him.

Joaquin Phoenix’s performance in the first film was superb, driving the narrative with an unreliable narrator and leaving audiences with more questions than answers.

The original Joker movie was seen as a complete story, leaving many viewers skeptical about the need for a sequel.

Concerns arose when it was announced that Joker 2 would be a musical co-starring Lady Gaga, creating skepticism about the direction of the sequel.

Despite initial doubts, the film attracted a talented team, with Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga delivering strong performances.

The film centers on Arthur Fleck (Joker) meeting a woman named Lee Quinn in Arkham Asylum, starting a romance that challenges his Joker persona.

Lady Gaga’s performance as a Joker fan enamored with the persona rather than the man added an interesting dynamic to the film’s theme of celebrity worship.

The movie explores the theme of the blurred line between myth and reality in the Joker’s persona, although less effectively than the original.

Critics felt that Joker 2 regressed Arthur’s character back to his weaker, timid personality, undoing the development seen at the end of the first film.

The courtroom scenes, which recapped much of the first film’s events, removed the ambiguity that made the original so compelling.

The movie’s musical numbers, though visually and audibly engaging, were seen as distractions from an otherwise uninspiring and bloated drama.

Joaquin Phoenix gave an intense performance, but it closely mirrored his work in the first film, raising concerns about redundancy.

The film’s ending is expected to generate discussion, but overall, Joker 2 left viewers questioning its necessity and purpose.

Ultimately, Joker 2 felt like a studio-mandated sequel trying to recapture the original’s magic, but it failed to justify its existence.

Transcripts

wow I guess time really does make fools

of us all the first Joker movie was one

of those rare moments of cinematic

Serendipity where everything that should

have been wrong somehow came together to

become absolutely right a lowbudget

origin story about a Batman villain that

nobody asked for directed by a guy best

known for making comedies that proed the

law of diminishing returns and shadowed

by media accusations of promoting

violence misogyny and generalized

buffoonery it was a film that seemingly

had everything going against it but some

somehow turned out way better than it

had any right to be in a sea of

oversaturated CGI sludge The Joker dared

to tell a small intimate complex story

of a man pushed into madness and despair

by a society that was blindly

indifferent to him a movie with a

wonderfully unreliable narrator driven

by a superb performance by Wakim Phoenix

and an ending that left the audience

with more questions than answers it was

a perfect oneandone movie that told its

story and told it well no need to do

anything more with a character like that

because it would just cheapen The

Experience so like the rest of you I was

a bit perplexed when I find out that

joker was getting a sequel and even more

concerned when it was announced as a

musical co-star in Lady

Gaga but just like everyone else I tried

to suppress my doubts and ignore that

nagging feeling in the pit of my stomach

that this movie was fundamentally a bad

idea surely to goodness Todd Phillips

knows what he's doing and wouldn't just

sh out some lame cash grab sequel that

undermines the Integrity of the original

right

wrong then I sat down and watched

it and if all two and a half hours of

Joker F proves anything at all it's that

sometimes you really ought to listen to

your instincts yeah there's definitely

good elements in there you can see that

talented people were working on this

movie and the ending is definitely going

to get people talking but overall Joker

2 felt like a dull bloated and

ultimately unnecessary movie that failed

to answer the question that's dogged it

since the beginning why does this film

even exist now I know it's just come out

and I don't want to spoil it for people

so I'm going to keep my plot summary

short and sweet unlike this [ __ ]

movie so with that in mind let's go the

story picks up shortly after the events

of the first film where Arthur Fleck has

been arrested and locked up in Arkham

Asylum while he awaits trial for all the

murders that he committed his lawyer

wants to plead Insanity while the

prosecutor Harvey Dent's pushing for the

death penalty bad times indeed but while

he's at Arkham he meets a young woman

named Lee Quinn and soon starts a bit of

a romance with her but is it really

Arthur that she's into or is Joker

personality and what's her true

motivation for being there well you'll

have to wait and find out anyway the

case goes to trial and Arthur's soon

confronted by the reality of what he did

in the first film by going over most of

the key events again but how responsible

was he for what happened was the Joker

really a split personality that took

over him or just part of him all along

and what will Harley Quinn think of him

when she finds out the truth Joker 2 is

kind of a frustrating movie to watch

because in a lot of ways I can see how

hard many of the people involved are

trying to make it work Wakee Phoenix

delivers the same intense compelling

performance as the first movie arguably

a bit too similar but we'll get into

that one in a minute the point is though

he's definitely given the role his all

and some of his scenes are genuinely

compelling Lady Gaga much to my surprise

also turns in a good performance as a

crazy Super Fan enamored by the

flamboyant Persona of the Joker rather

than the Flesh and Blood Man Behind it

and if you're inclined to look for

themes in this film it's an interesting

insight into the intoxicating danger of

celebrity and the vast Gulf between myth

and reality the two actors play well off

each other and the kind of Twisted

romance they cultivate seems pretty

appropriate for a movie like this and

the film even has you questioning which

of their interactions even happened for

real it doesn't do it as effectively as

the first movie but it's something at

least the thing is I'm pretty sure that

the Comic version of Quinn was more like

the Joker's play thing rather than a

manipulative F fatal stringing him along

but again it probably fits with what we

know about this version of Joker and I

guess that brings me along to my

criticisms the biggest of which is the

deconstruction of Arthur himself the

ending of the first movie saw him fully

Embraces Joker Persona shed in the last

remnants of his old weak victimized

personality and embracing The Madness of

the world around him it was a logical

end point for a man who had been

desperately trying to swim against the

tide for most of the film and it was

kind of cathartic to see him finally let

go it was a final [ __ ] you to the world

that had kicked him to the ground again

and again a world reduced to Fire and

Chaos all of that good work seems to

have been undone here because for most

of the film he's reverted to the same

weak timid Arthur that he was at the

start of the first movie and I can't

shake the feeling that there's something

almost mean-spirited in that kind of

deconstruction as if they're taking a

swipe at the audience themselves for

liking someone they weren't supposed to

I don't know man it just feels like

character regression instead of

development for for me then there's the

musical numbers that pepper The

Narrative I can't believe I'm saying

this because normally I [ __ ] hate

musicals but I actually kind of enjoyed

the sheer spectacle and performances

while I was watching

them gay and Lady Gaga clearly doesn't

have any trouble buting out her numbers

but the more I think about it the more I

see them as shiny objects trying to

distract from what's actually a pretty

stodgy bloed and uninspiring drama the

court room seems are basically just a

dry recap of the first film telling us

things that we mostly already know and

destroying that awesome sense of

ambiguity and unreality that made it

such a fascinating story to pick apart

now we know exactly what did and didn't

happen and [ __ ] man it feels like such a

waste and most disappointingly of all I

actually found myself kind of bored and

checked out at times something that

absolutely never happened with the

original movie as I said before the

question hanging over Joker 2 was is

this a story that really needed to be

told or is it just a bunch of talented

people doing doing their best to elevate

a studio mandated sequel into something

that it isn't well now that I've seen it

I'm afraid I know the answer and it's

not a good

one anyway that's all I've got for today

go away now