Deeming dates and how the skill assessment authorities are denying peoples right to claim points.
Summary
TLDRCarl Conrad discusses the concept of 'deeming dates' in the Australian visa application process. He explains that deeming dates are set by skill assessment bodies to determine when an individual is considered skilled for a job. Despite some bodies' strict interpretations, Conrad clarifies that the Australian immigration policy prioritizes the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO) over deeming dates, allowing applicants to claim work experience points even if a skill assessment body disagrees. This insight is crucial for visa applicants to maximize their points for skilled employment.
Takeaways
- 📅 A deeming date is the date a skill assessment body decides that an individual has reached the minimum skill level for a job.
- 🏆 Deeming dates are not commonly discussed outside of the visa application context and some bodies, like Engineers Australia, do not use them.
- 👨🏫 VES, a major skill assessment body, can be frustrating as it can seemingly negate years of experience by setting a deeming date.
- 🌐 The immigration department's policy has evolved to consider both skill assessment bodies' opinions and the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO).
- 📚 Historically, the immigration department relied on ASCO definitions, which have now been updated to ANZSCO to define minimum qualifications for jobs.
- 🚀 A court case influenced policy, stating that case officers must consider all work experience after meeting ANZSCO requirements, not just skill assessment body requirements.
- 📉 Skill assessment bodies sometimes set the bar higher than ANZSCO, leading to potential underestimation of an applicant's skilled work experience.
- 💡 The immigration policy instructs decision-makers to consider ANZSCO and apply the more beneficial outcome when assessing skilled employment for visa points.
- 🛂 Despite policy, some states like New South Wales have been slow to adapt and have relied on deeming dates for state sponsorship decisions.
- 📈 Applicants should not limit their work experience claims based on deeming dates alone and should seek clarification if unsure.
Q & A
What is a deeming date?
-A deeming date is when a skill assessment body decides or deems that an individual has reached the minimum skill level to do the job they claim they can do.
How does a deeming date affect a visa application?
-A deeming date can affect a visa application by determining when an applicant is considered to have the necessary skills for a job, which can impact the calculation of work experience points for visa eligibility.
Why are deeming dates considered infuriating by some?
-Deeming dates can be infuriating because they can effectively remove years of experience by stating that an individual was not truly skilled until a certain date, despite them working as a professional before that date.
Does Engineers Australia use deeming dates?
-No, Engineers Australia does not use deeming dates. They believe that if you have completed a bachelor of engineering, you are qualified to be an engineer.
What is the example given in the script about a skill assessment result?
-The example given is of a client who had over 3 years of experience as an actuary but was deemed skilled only from May 2021 by VES, despite having completed a relevant master's degree in May 2020.
How was the client able to claim all of their work experience despite the deeming date?
-The client was able to claim all of their work experience by relying on the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO), which states that an actuary requires a bachelor degree or higher qualification, which the client had met since 2016.
What is the importance of the ANZSCO in determining skilled employment for visa points?
-The ANZSCO is important because it outlines the minimum qualification necessary to do a particular job. It can be used to determine when an applicant was working at a skilled level, even if the skill assessment body has a different deeming date.
What does the immigration department's policy say about considering skilled employment for visa points?
-The policy states that when assessing periods of skilled employment for the purpose of awarding points, decision-makers should consider the skill assessment authority's opinion, ANZSCO requirements, and any other relevant information, applying the more beneficial outcome for the applicant.
Why do some skill assessment bodies still give out deeming dates despite the immigration department's policy?
-Some skill assessment bodies still give out deeming dates because they have modified their skill assessment requirements away from the basic ANZSCO requirements, creating a discrepancy between their assessments and the immigration department's policy.
What advice does Carl Conrad give to visa applicants regarding work experience points?
-Carl Conrad advises visa applicants not to deny themselves the ability to claim as many points as they can in the work experience points category of these visas, and to seek clarification or help if they are confused about deeming dates.
Outlines
📅 Understanding Deeming Dates in Visa Applications
Carl Conrad introduces the concept of deeming dates in the context of Australian immigration. A deeming date is defined by the immigration department as the time when a skill assessment body deems an individual has reached the minimum skill level for a job. Despite being a common topic in comments, deeming dates are not typically discussed in job applications. Skill assessment bodies like Engineers Australia do not use deeming dates, but others like VES do. The video uses a real example of a skill assessment from VES for an actuary, where the deeming date was set a year after the completion of a relevant master's degree, despite the applicant having years of experience. The video explains how the immigration department's policy on skilled employment periods considers both the skill assessment authority's opinion and the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO). It highlights a court case that influenced policy to consider all work experience after meeting ANZSCO requirements, not just the skill assessment body's requirements.
🌐 The Reign of ANZSCO Over Deeming Dates
The video continues to emphasize the importance of ANZSCO in determining skilled work experience for visa points, despite what skill assessment bodies like VES might suggest. It explains that while skill assessment bodies may set deeming dates that deduct work experience, ANZSCO remains the ultimate authority. The example of the actuary is reiterated, showing how the claimant was successful in using work experience from before the master's degree, aligning with ANZSCO requirements. The video warns against relying solely on skill assessment bodies' advice and encourages visa applicants to claim all possible work experience points. It also mentions the New South Wales government's reliance on deeming dates for state sponsorship, which may change to align with immigration department policy. The video concludes with a reminder to consult professionals for help with visa applications and a预告 of the return to the regular Weekly News edition.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Deeming Date
💡Skill Assessment Body
💡Visa Application
💡Work Experience
💡Skilled Independent Visa
💡Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO)
💡Points System
💡Engineers Australia
💡Skilled Migration
💡VES
💡State Sponsorship
Highlights
Deeming dates are crucial for understanding how skill assessments affect visa applications.
A deeming date is when a skill assessment body decides an individual has reached the minimum skill level for a job.
Deeming dates are not commonly discussed in the real world of job applications.
Some skill assessment bodies, like Engineers Australia, do not use deeming dates.
VES, Australia's largest skill assessment body, uses deeming dates which can be frustrating for applicants.
Deeming dates can remove years of experience and delay when an applicant is considered skilled.
A real example is given where VES delayed the deeming date despite the applicant's extensive experience.
The immigration department's policy allows for the consideration of all work experience after meeting the minimum requirements.
The Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO) is key in determining skilled work.
Skill assessment bodies sometimes deviate from ANZSCO requirements, creating confusion.
A landmark court case ruled that case officers must consider all work experience after meeting ANZSCO requirements.
The immigration department's policy now favors the more beneficial outcome for applicants.
Applicants should not limit their work experience claims based on deeming dates alone.
The New South Wales government has been reluctant to follow the immigration department's policy on deeming dates.
The presenter encourages applicants to claim as many points as possible for work experience.
The presenter offers help for those confused about deeming dates and how they affect visa applications.
The video will return to its regular schedule next week with more Australian immigration news.
Transcripts
what is a deeming date and how does it
affect your visa
[Music]
application hi I'm Carl Conrad and
Welcome to our weekly edition of
Australian immigration news I'm away on
holiday this week so we have prepared
this video in advance to replace the
normal Weekly News Edition the benefits
of watching our channel is that we are
sharing our 26e history of running a
professional practice and all the
experience with we have gained along the
way deeming dates are always discussed
in the comments section so it was time
to shed some light on them once again
according to the immigration department
a deeming date is when a particular
skill assessment body decides or deems
that an individual has reached the
minimum skill level to do the job you
say you can now we know in the real
world nobody talks about deeming dates
when applying for jobs and many skill
assessment bodies do not put deeming
dates on their results
Engineers Australia has never used
deeming dates they believe that if you
have completed a bachelor of engineering
you are qualified to be an engineer but
the problem is some still do like vdes
Australia's largest authorized skill
assessment body for Visa applicants
deeming dates are so infuriating the
skill assessment body can remove years
of experience from you and say you are
not really skilled until we say you are
and on a particular date in reality it's
it's quite insulting people are being
paid as professionals and a skill
assessment body can say hold on just a
minute you weren't really a professional
until such and such a date here is a
perfect example of a real result with
the personal identifiers removed it is a
positive skill assessment from vasis as
an actuary our client had more than 3
years experience as working as an
actuary overseas since October
2019 they had completed a unrelated
bachelor degree in 2016 and completed a
masters of actual aerial studies in May
of 2020 you can see that VES said in
this result that since they only
completed a highly relevant degree in
May of 2020 they did not become skilled
until one year later and therefore their
deeming date was May of
2021 hence they only gave 22 years of
work experience to claim for points
however we claimed all of their work
experience since they began working as
an actur in
2019 they were granted the 189 skilled
independent visa on this basis of
claiming all of the work experience even
before they completed the Master's
Degree how was this done I will explain
after showing you some government policy
more than 20 years ago when skill
assessments did not even exist the
immigration department relied solely
then on ASCO definitions now they have
incorp corporated New Zealand and they
call it anco essentially anco outlines
the occupations in the workforce and
tells us what is the minimum
qualification necessary to do a
particular job over time some of the
skill assessment bodies have modified
their skill assessment requirements away
from the basic anso requirements and VES
is a prime example they came up with
this deeming date process holding the
appropriate anso qualification wasn't
enough anymore in most cases you needed
work experience before you were deemed
skilled a few years later there was a
landmark court case where a decision was
ruled against the immigration department
the decision effectively said well the
case officers have to take into account
all of the work experience an applicant
has after they meet the ansco
requirement not necessarily the skill
assessment body requirement shortly
after the immigration department
modified its policy and it has been this
for a long time now and the policy
states when assessing periods of skilled
employment for the purpose of awarding
points the following must be taken into
account the opinion of the relevant
skill assessment Authority on the period
of skilled employment including the date
on which they deem the applicant skilled
and the Australian and New Zealand
standard classification of occupations
anco including any prerequisite
qualifications or work experience
relevant to the claimed skilled
employment and any other relevant
information such as employment records
and references well that's all very well
and good you say but it still mentions
deeming dates so can't they rely just on
what vasus says well the most important
part of the policy is this if the skill
assessing Authority's opinion would
result in the applicant being awarded
less points than the applicant claimed
in their eii then decision makers should
consider the information in anco and
apply the more beneficial outcome in
determining when the applicant was
working at a skilled level so in the end
no matter what the skill assessment body
says about your deeming date anco is
still the King this is why the example
given before about the actuary was
successful anco says an actuary requires
a bachelor degree or higher
qualification the applicant held a
bachelor degree back in
2016 therefore met the anco requir M
this means that any work experience in
the nominated occupation after this date
was accepted contrary to the skill
assessment bodies advice despite this
reality vs and other skill assessment
bodies still give out these skill
assessments implying applicants cannot
claim points for work experience
deducted to meet the skill level these
skill assessment results are very
misleading and when we Lodge
applications in most cases we claim the
work experience vest dedu from their
calculations worse still the New South
Wales government for many years has
refused applicants for State sponsorship
relying on these deeming dates advice we
pointed out to them a long long time ago
about Do's policy but they refused to
budge it seems that soon now they will
actually follow doa's policy so the
point of this story is that you should
not deny yourself the ability to claim
as many points as you can in the work
experience points category of these
skools visas if you are confused on this
issue or need clarification we are
always here to help please book A Time
by visiting our website or if you're in
a hurry just pick up the phone to see if
we can book you in earlier stay tuned
for our normal Weekly News which we'll
begin again next week as always take
care out there and I'll see you next
time so bye for now
[Music]
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