BookTV: Jonathan Cole, "The Great American University"

Summary

In this interview, Jonathan Cole, former Provost and current University Professor at Columbia University, discusses the role of a Provost and his transition back to teaching and research. He elaborates on the concept of 'Great American Universities,' highlighting their global dominance due to research and innovation. Cole expresses concerns over internal threats to these institutions, such as budget cuts, rather than international competition. He also touches on the student loan issue, viewing it as a complex matter with both positive and negative implications for the higher education system.

Takeaways

• 🎓 Dr. Jonathan Cole served as the Provost of Columbia University, overseeing academic programs, deans, vice presidents, and the budget, akin to a COO role.
• 🏫 As a university Professor, he has the freedom to teach across various schools within Columbia University, reflecting his passion for teaching and research.
• 📚 He helped establish the field of sociology of science, emphasizing the social systems' influence on the growth of ideas and knowledge.
• 🌟 Dr. Cole defines a great university by its role in transmitting and creating new knowledge, with American universities leading in research and global rankings.
• 🔬 American universities are renowned for their research discoveries, such as the laser and GPS, contributing significantly to global advancements.
• 🌐 The concept of a 'great university' is not just about undergraduate education but also the research output and global reputation.
• 🏛️ Despite competition, Dr. Cole believes the U.S. will maintain its dominance in higher education for the next 20-25 years due to its strong academic foundation.
• 🚀 He views the university system as an industry that produces non-depletable knowledge, with intellectual property rights and close ties to other industries.
• 🏛️ The greatest threat to American universities, according to Dr. Cole, comes from internal issues rather than foreign competition.
• 💸 Dr. Cole expresses concern over the financial challenges faced by public university systems, which could undermine their ability to maintain excellence.

Q & A

What is the role of a Provost at a university?

A Provost is responsible for running the internal operations of a university. At Columbia, the Provost managed academic programs, oversaw Deans and vice presidents, controlled the budget, and was in charge of the tenure system.

What does Dr. Cole's current role as a university Professor entail?

As a university Professor, Dr. Cole can teach at any school within the university system without boundaries. He has the opportunity to teach across various disciplines, from journalism to architecture and law.

What field did Dr. Cole help develop?

Dr. Cole helped develop the field of the sociology of science, which examines the social systems that influence the growth of ideas and knowledge.

How does Dr. Cole define a 'Great American University'?

A 'Great American University' is defined by its role in the transmission and creation of new knowledge, particularly through research discoveries that have a global impact.

Why does Dr. Cole believe American universities dominate the global higher education landscape?

American universities dominate because of their research discoveries, which often have significant practical applications and are not well-understood by the public.

What are some examples of discoveries that originated from American universities?

Examples include the laser, the global positioning system, and the cure for childhood leukemia.

How does Dr. Cole view the concept of the American university as an 'industry'?

Dr. Cole sees the American university as an industry because it produces non-depletable knowledge, has close ties to industry, and owns intellectual property resulting from federally funded research.

Why isn't Dr. Cole as worried about foreign competition in higher education?

Dr. Cole believes competition could lead to more discoveries and innovation. He also notes that other countries, like China, still need to fully embrace values like academic freedom and free inquiry.

What internal threats does Dr. Cole identify for American universities?

Dr. Cole is concerned about threats such as budget cuts to public university systems, which could lead to a loss of greatness and hinder the production of future discoveries.

How does Dr. Cole perceive the student loan issue's impact on the higher education system?

Dr. Cole views the student loan issue as a mixed story, with both positive and negative aspects affecting the system.

Outlines

00:00

🎓 Role of a Provost and the Essence of a Great University

In this segment, Jonathan Cole, former Provost of Columbia University and current University Professor, discusses his role as Provost, which involved overseeing academic programs, managing budgets, and handling tenure cases. He likens his position to that of a COO, focusing on the internal operations of the university. Dr. Cole emphasizes the importance of the system in fostering the growth of ideas and knowledge, which he believes is crucial for a university's greatness. He defines a great university as one that excels in the transmission and creation of new knowledge, highlighting the significant contributions of American universities to global research and innovation. Dr. Cole also touches on the potential longevity of American dominance in higher education, citing the unique value system and academic freedom as key factors.

05:00

🌐 The Industry of Higher Education and Global Competition

Dr. Cole refers to higher education as an industry, highlighting its role in producing non-depletable knowledge and its integration with society. He discusses the close ties between universities and industry, particularly in terms of intellectual property and research grants. Addressing concerns about foreign competition, particularly from China and India, Dr. Cole expresses optimism about the potential for more great universities worldwide and the benefits of such competition. However, he notes the challenges faced by these countries in achieving academic freedom and the value system necessary for greatness. He also expresses concern about internal threats to the American university system, such as budget cuts and a lack of understanding of the contributions of universities to society, using the example of the California State University system to illustrate the potential consequences of such threats.

10:01

💼 The Wealthiest University and the Student Loan Issue

This paragraph, although incomplete, suggests a discussion about the wealthiest universities and the impact of student loans on the higher education system. It's likely that Dr. Cole would address the financial aspects of universities, the challenges faced by students with loans, and the broader implications for accessibility and affordability in higher education.

Keywords

💡Provost

A Provost is an academic administrator who oversees the academic programs and operations of a university. In the context of the video, Jonathan Cole, the former Provost of Columbia University, describes his role as managing the internal operations, including academic programs, deans, vice presidents, and budget. He also mentions being in charge of the tenure system, which is a significant aspect of academic administration.

💡Academic Freedom

Academic freedom refers to the right of academics to teach, research, and publish ideas without interference from the state or other external pressures. The video discusses how academic freedom is essential for a university to achieve greatness, and it contrasts the situation in the United States, where this freedom is more prevalent, with other countries where it might be limited.

💡Tenure

Tenure is a job保障 system for university faculty, providing them with long-term employment and protection against dismissal without cause. In the video, Dr. Cole mentions overseeing over 700 tenure cases, indicating the importance of tenure in ensuring academic stability and freedom.

💡Sociology of Science

The sociology of science is a field that studies the social factors that influence the development and dissemination of scientific knowledge. Dr. Cole helped develop this field, emphasizing that scientific progress is not just the work of individual geniuses but also the result of social systems and structures.

💡Great American University

The term 'Great American University' is used in the video to describe a select group of elite institutions in the United States that are known for their academic excellence, research capabilities, and global reputation. Dr. Cole estimates there to be about 100 to 150 such universities, which are responsible for significant research discoveries and contributions to knowledge.

💡Research and Innovation

Research and innovation are central to the identity of great universities, as they drive the creation of new knowledge and technologies. The video highlights how American universities lead in these areas, with many significant discoveries originating from their research programs.

💡Public University Systems

Public university systems refer to the network of state-funded higher education institutions. The video expresses concern over the financial challenges faced by these systems, which could potentially threaten their ability to maintain academic excellence and contribute to research and innovation.

💡Student Loans

Student loans are financial instruments taken by students to fund their education, and they have become a significant issue in the United States due to the high amount of outstanding debt. The video discusses the mixed impact of student loans on the higher education system, suggesting that while they enable access to education, the burden of debt can be problematic.

💡Academic Administration

Academic administration encompasses the management and leadership of academic institutions. The video provides insights into the role of a Provost, which is a key position in academic administration, responsible for the internal operations and academic success of a university.

💡Global Positioning System (GPS)

GPS is mentioned in the video as an example of a significant research discovery that originated from an American university. It illustrates the practical applications and societal impacts that can result from university research.

💡Internal and External Operations

The video distinguishes between internal and external operations of a university. Internal operations, which Dr. Cole was responsible for as Provost, include academic programs and faculty management. External operations, often overseen by the university president, involve fundraising, public relations, and legislative affairs.

Highlights

Jonathan Cole, former Provost of Columbia University, discusses the role of a Provost, which includes managing academic programs and overseeing the tenure system.

As Provost, Cole had substantial control over the budget and was responsible for the internal operations of the university.

Cole's experience as Provost informed his understanding of the importance of systems in the growth of ideas and knowledge.

After his term as Provost, Cole returned to teaching and research, with the freedom to teach across various schools within the university.

Cole helped develop the field of sociology of science, emphasizing the social system's influence on the growth of knowledge.

He estimates there are 100 to 150 Great American universities, a select group within the broader landscape of higher education institutions.

A great university is defined by its role in the transmission and creation of new knowledge.

American universities dominate the global ranking of great universities due to their research discoveries and contributions to knowledge.

Cole argues that the United States has a favorable balance of trade in higher education, an industry where it still leads globally.

The American university system is deeply embedded in society, influencing and being influenced by it.

Cole is not overly concerned about foreign competition from universities in China and other Asian countries due to differences in academic values.

Internal threats, such as budget cuts and a lack of understanding of universities' contributions, pose a greater risk to American higher education's dominance.

Public university systems, which produce the majority of PhDs and undergraduate degrees, are at risk of losing their greatness due to state budget cuts.

Cole discusses the student loan issue, viewing it as a mixed story with both positive and negative aspects for the higher education system.

The interview concludes with a call to rethink and improve upon the current state of universities to maintain their greatness in the future.

Transcripts

and our conversations here at Columbia

University continue and now joining us

is Jonathan Cole who is the former

Provost of this University and currently

a university

Professor Dr Cole what is a Provost well

Provost uh is many different things at

different Universities at Columbia it

was really Mr inside as opposed to Mr

outside I basically ran all the academic

programs all of the Deans vice

presidents uh of the various schools

reported to me I also had substantial

control over the budget here so I was

running the internal operations of the

uh of the University I was in charge of

the tenure system I heard over 700

tenure cases uh and it was a great fun

it was a great learning experience as a

matter of fact because I promised myself

that I would uh I would read whatever I

was able to understand and get a liberal

education through uh through doing that

so uh the president was concentrating a

great deal on the outside of the

University particularly fundraising and

publicity and legislation in Congress or

in the state legislature uh no

extraordinarily important decisions were

made without his approval of course but

I was basically running the inside of

the univers so much like a COO that's

right and what do you do now at the

University well I went back to my first

calling my first love which is teaching

and doing research uh the trustees were

kind enough to make me a university

Professor which means that you can teach

at any school with the university you're

not limited uh There's No Boundaries on

where you can teach if the Deans of

those schools will have you and I've had

an opportunity to teach in schools from

journalism to architecture to the law

school to the College of course Columbia

College and graduate students of course

what is your field I helped develop many

years ago it seems like it was yesterday

but it was really about 45 years ago the

field of the sociology of science when

people people thought that science was

produced by great minds uh individuals

but didn't understand that there was a

social system that actually was

influential on the growth of ideas and

the growth of knowledge that I should

say had held me in great stead when I

became Provost because I realized it was

the system that counted well we invited

you on book TV to talk about this your

book The Great American

University how many Great American

universities are there I would say that

probably about 150 100 to 150 Great

American universities and that has to be

put in context of over 300 universities

that offer PHD programs and over 4,000

colleges and universities in the United

States so it's a relatively Elite group

of universities not elitist necessarily

because I think they actually have more

funds and resources to incorporate into

them uh people without means and

students with without means uh but they

are among the top universities in the

world how do you define a great

University well it's it has to do with

the uh the transmission and the creation

of new knowledge and I think the reason

why American universities dominate the

set of great universities in the world

80% of the top 20 70% of the top 50 60%

of the top one 100 by most official

counts or surveys or whatever uh is

because of the research discoveries that

they have made that few members of the

public really understand or realize that

it come from universities I mean things

like the laser things like uh the global

positioning system the cure for uh

childhood leukemia all of these things

had their Origins at American Research

universities and there are great

discoveries that are being made every

day at these universities most people

think of these universities in terms of

undergraduate education which is

extremely important but nonetheless is

not what the United States has made its

reputation from It's Made its reputation

for greatness out of the kind of

research and the quality of the research

that have come from uh our faculties and

our great universities and people from

all over the world are interested in

coming and joining these universities as

students as faculty members and want to

participate in what we have it probably

is the only industry where we have a

favorable balance of trade in this uh

this country and it is one where we uh

still dominate I would say the set of

the the great universities and and

probably will for the next 20 or 25

years what I'm working on now is is

trying to rekindle an ancient debate

about 100 years old about what a great

University ought to look like let's say

30 or 40 years uh from now and despite

the fact that we are at the very top of

the mountain uh we should really rethink

the things that we are doing now and try

to improve upon them okay three

questions from that answer number one

you called it an

industry yeah why well I think that it

is it's producing something it's

producing something that's not

depletable knowledge which is not

depletable if you have it and I have it

it doesn't mean there's less of it for

the world and we're trying to produce

that knowledge in a way that everyone in

the world potentially can have it and

can benefit uh from it in fact we even

sell our knowledge to some extent today

so it makes it more Industrial in that

regard and closer to Industry since we

own the intellectual property which

comes from the discoveries made from

federal research uh grants we have close

links to Industry uh today much more so

than we did in the past in short the

American the Great American University

is no longer isolated it's no longer a

Closter uh it's no longer what people

sometimes wish it was which is to go

back to the 19th century into an

environment that um surrounds Itself by

beautiful buildings and isolates itself

from the rest of the world but really is

something that is embedded deeply in the

society and uh is informed by the

society influenced by the society and in

turn should be influencing it number two

you said we'll be on top for another 20

to 25 years most uh people are worried

about foreign uh competition in uh in in

this realm of higher education

particularly from the Chinese and from

the Indians and and Asian countries

Japan and Korea I'm not as worried about

that as others first of all I think it

would be a good thing if we had more

great universities and the competition

would do good things for the United

States we would find more cures for

disease we might get to cures for cancer

more rapidly if we were competing

against great Chinese universities so I

don't see that as a bad thing I think

unfortunately there those societies

still have a long way to go to put into

place the value system that is necessary

for greatness for example you cannot

have I defy anyone to tell me of a great

University system that doesn't have

academic freedom and free inquiry and

that's something that I have worked with

the Chinese about and they genuflect to

the idea of free inquiry and academic

freedom but when it comes right down to

it if you argue against the state's

policies you wind up at a different and

second class University uh so it's not

clear that they've truly internalized uh

this and I think their best students

understand this when they want very much

to come to the United States and to be

part of this engine of innovation which

uh the American University is today well

you said you're not so much worried

about the the rise of the Chinese in uh

universities uh

Etc is there a threat then to American

dominance and higher education I think

there is and I'm very very much

concerned concerned about the internal

threats to paraphrase from the old

cartoonist Walt Kelly and his famous

cartoon character Pogo uh who said uh

we've seen the enemy and he is us I

think that really we are the only uh

people who can destroy our own Jewel in

our nation's crown and we're doing a lot

to do that right now and there are great

friends of mine who are great scientists

and humanists who fear for the future of

American University is because of a lack

of understanding of what they do and how

they contribute to the uh the welfare of

our our society for example let's take

the state of California which is perhaps

the best example of a State University

system that um is probably the greatest

system of public Higher Learning that

the world has ever known and it is being

strangled uh it is being uh its budget

is being cut by

202 5% a year year if that continues

they will lose their greatness they will

not be able to attract great faculty

members they will not be able to attract

great students not the research grants

they won't be producing the kinds of

discoveries uh that they have in the

past there won't be a Silicone Valley

associated with University of California

or Stanford uh so I'm much more worried

actually about the Public University

Systems which now produce the majority

of our phds uh the majority of our under

graduate degrees and that are literally

being starved to death by the states who

don't realize that it is much easier to

maintain and sustain greatness than it

is to recreate it and if they if they

fail to sustain this greatness they are

going to find it extremely difficult to

rebuild it Professor Cole what about the

student loan issue is that a threat to

the fact that there's a trillion dollars

out there in student loans is that a is

that a threat to the system I think it's

a it's a mixed Story I mean ironically

the wealthiest un