How Jozef Chen is Changing BJJ

Summary

In this engaging discussion, Joseph Chan, a young and talented Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner, shares his journey from a 17-year-old bleach-blond tourist to a prodigy in the grappling world. Chan, now 19, discusses his rapid ascent, influenced by books like 'The Art of Learning' and podcasts, emphasizing the importance of self-directed learning and the balance between growth and performance in his training. He also touches on his competitive mindset, the concept of making smaller circles in technique refinement, and the idea of viewing losses as investments in growth. Chan's story is one of dedication, strategic learning, and the pursuit of excellence in Jiu-Jitsu.

Takeaways

• 🤼 Joseph Chan is a young and talented Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner who has quickly gained recognition in the BJJ community.
• 🏆 Chan's early exposure to BJJ was through striking and MMA, which he found less challenging compared to the intricacies of Jiu-Jitsu.
• 📚 He has been influenced by books like 'The Art of Learning' by Josh Waitzkin, which has shaped his approach to skill development and learning.
• 🌐 Chan's training was significantly impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic, providing him with an opportunity to train full-time and study BJJ deeply.
• 🏅 His success has been noted by prominent figures in BJJ, with some predicting he could become a future world champion.
• 🧠 Chan emphasizes the importance of self-directed learning, going beyond coach instruction to explore techniques and strategies on his own.
• 🔄 He discusses the concept of 'growth versus performance' in training, highlighting the need to balance learning new techniques with honing them under pressure.
• 🔁 Chan applies the idea of making smaller circles to refine techniques, making them more conscious to facilitate adjustments and deeper understanding.
• 🤔 He values the process of 'tinkering' during drilling sessions, which involves experimenting with techniques and engaging in dialogue with training partners.
• 🏆 Chan's approach to competition includes viewing losses as investments in growth, which encourages trying new techniques and strategies.
• 🎓 Despite his success in BJJ, Chan has not completed high school, choosing to focus on his martial arts career with the support of his family.

Q & A

Who is Joseph Chan in the context of the transcript?

Joseph Chan is a young and talented Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner who has quickly gained recognition in the Jiu-Jitsu community. He is known for his impressive skills and is considered a rising star.

What was Joseph Chan's initial impression on the speaker when they first met?

The speaker initially thought Joseph Chan was a regular tourist due to his bleach-blond hair and young age, but was very impressed with his skills after rolling with him.

How old was Joseph Chan when he started training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

Joseph Chan started training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu when he was around 14 years old.

What influenced Joseph Chan to start training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

Joseph Chan was influenced to start training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu after watching MMA online and playing UFC 3, which sparked his interest in the sport.

What is Joseph Chan's approach to learning and training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

Joseph Chan's approach to learning and training involves being self-directed, focusing on growth versus performance, and incorporating various instructionals and mental models into his training regimen.

What books has Joseph Chan found influential in his Jiu-Jitsu journey?

Joseph Chan has found 'The Art of Learning' by Josh Waitzkin and 'The Will to Keep Winning' by Chu Da Wei to be influential in his Jiu-Jitsu journey.

How does Joseph Chan apply the concept of 'making smaller circles' in his training?

Joseph Chan applies the concept of 'making smaller circles' by refining his techniques, making them less intuitive and more conscious, allowing him to make adjustments and think deeply about the techniques.

What is the significance of the term 'tinkering' in Joseph Chan's training philosophy?

In Joseph Chan's training philosophy, 'tinkering' refers to experimenting and sandboxing techniques to understand them better, engage both parties in a learning exchange, and stimulate the mind for better understanding and growth.

How does Joseph Chan view the concept of losing in the context of competitive Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

Joseph Chan views losing as an investment in growth, suggesting that focusing on areas of weakness during training can lead to improvement, even if it means losing in the short term.

What is Joseph Chan's current educational status according to the transcript?

Joseph Chan has mostly completed his A levels but has not finished them due to prioritizing his Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu trials and training.

What are Joseph Chan's parents' opinions on his pursuit of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu over traditional education?

Joseph Chan's mother is supportive of his pursuit of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, while his father, coming from a poor background and valuing education, initially wanted him to complete university.

What is Joseph Chan's long-term goal in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

Joseph Chan does not have a specific 10-year plan mapped out but intends to play it by year, focusing on his enjoyment of the sport and his performance in it.

Outlines

00:00

🤼‍♂️ The Rise of Jiu-Jitsu Prodigy Joseph Chan

The paragraph introduces Joseph Chan, a young and talented Jiu-Jitsu practitioner who made an impression on the narrator at the age of 17. Despite his youth, Chan's skills have garnered attention, and he is seen as a potential future world champion. The narrator expresses a desire to understand how Chan has achieved such rapid success in Jiu-Jitsu, asking about his training process and what sets him apart. Chan's journey began with an interest in striking, which he later replaced with a passion for Jiu-Jitsu after being introduced to it at 14. His dedication to the sport was further fueled by the time he spent in Taiwan, where he had the opportunity to train extensively. The paragraph also touches on Chan's self-directed learning approach, influenced by resources like podcasts and books, which have shaped his mindset and approach to skill development.

05:03

📚 Insights from 'The Art of Learning' and Training Philosophy

This paragraph delves into the influence of Josh Waitzkin's 'The Art of Learning' on Chan's training philosophy. It discusses the concepts of 'U form' and 'Le form,' which relate to the balance between conscious practice and intuitive performance. Chan interprets these ideas as 'growth versus performance,' emphasizing the importance of both in his training. He also talks about 'making smaller circles,' which refers to refining and consciously understanding techniques to improve and adapt them. The paragraph highlights Chan's approach to learning, which involves a mix of studying instructionals, self-directed practice, and live training to apply and refine his skills.

10:04

🤓 Balancing Innovation and Execution in Jiu-Jitsu

The third paragraph explores the dichotomy between innovation and execution in Jiu-Jitsu, drawing parallels to gaming strategies. Chan discusses the importance of both discovering new techniques and being able to perform them under pressure. He shares his training methods, which include drilling, live training, and tinkering with techniques to improve and adapt them. The paragraph also introduces the concept of 'investing in loss' from Josh Waitzkin's book, suggesting that embracing failure can be a valuable learning tool. Chan's approach to training involves a dynamic balance between learning new techniques and honing his ability to execute them effectively.

15:04

🎓 Prioritizing Jiu-Jitsu Over Traditional Education

In the final paragraph, Chan reflects on his decision to prioritize Jiu-Jitsu over completing his high school education. He discusses the support from his mother, who was initially concerned about his future but became more supportive as he gained recognition in the sport. His father, however, had different expectations, valuing traditional education more. Chan also shares his influences, including books and podcasts that have shaped his approach to learning and competition. He concludes with a non-committal view on his long-term goals, indicating a focus on the present and his enjoyment of the sport rather than a fixed 10-year plan.

Keywords

💡Jiu-Jitsu

Jiu-Jitsu, specifically Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, is a martial art that focuses on ground fighting and submission holds. In the context of the video, it is the central theme as the discussion revolves around Joseph Chan's rapid rise in the Jiu-Jitsu community. The script mentions his training and competition experiences, highlighting his dedication and the impact of the sport on his life.

💡Competition

Competition in this script refers to the act of participating in Jiu-Jitsu tournaments against other practitioners. It is a key aspect of the video as it discusses Joseph Chan's competitive experiences and how they have contributed to his growth as a Jiu-Jitsu practitioner, as well as the importance of competition in honing one's skills.

💡Training

Training in the script denotes the process of practicing and honing Jiu-Jitsu techniques. It is a recurring theme as the video discusses Joseph Chan's training regimen, his approach to learning new techniques, and the importance of consistent training in achieving proficiency in Jiu-Jitsu.

💡Growth versus Performance

This concept from the script refers to two different approaches to training. 'Growth' focuses on learning new techniques and strategies, while 'Performance' is about executing known techniques under pressure. The video discusses the balance between these two aspects, emphasizing the need for both to improve in Jiu-Jitsu.

💡Innovation

Innovation in the context of the video script pertains to the development of new techniques or strategies in Jiu-Jitsu. It is mentioned in relation to Joseph Chan's approach to learning and his willingness to explore and incorporate new moves into his repertoire, which is a critical aspect of his rapid improvement.

💡Art of Learning

The 'Art of Learning' is a book referenced in the script that has influenced Joseph Chan's approach to learning Jiu-Jitsu. It discusses concepts like 'U form to Le form' and 'making smaller circles,' which are used by Chan to refine his techniques and improve his intuitive understanding of the sport.

💡Mental Models

Mental models are frameworks or theories that help individuals understand and make decisions in a particular domain. In the script, they are mentioned as tools that Joseph Chan uses to enhance his understanding of Jiu-Jitsu techniques and strategies, contributing to his accelerated learning process.

💡Drilling

Drilling in the script refers to the practice of repeatedly performing a specific technique or movement to ingrain it into muscle memory. It is discussed as a method Joseph Chan uses to master difficult moves and as a way to improve his performance in competition.

💡Self-Directed Learning

Self-directed learning is the ability of an individual to take responsibility for their own learning. In the video, Joseph Chan is described as being self-directed in his approach to learning Jiu-Jitsu, seeking out resources, and taking an active role in his education beyond what is provided by his coaches.

💡Investing in Loss

Investing in loss is a concept from the script that suggests viewing losses or failures as opportunities for growth rather than as negative outcomes. It is discussed as a mindset that allows practitioners to experiment with new techniques and strategies without the fear of losing, which is crucial for improvement.

💡Tinkering

Tinkering, as mentioned in the script, refers to the process of experimenting with techniques during training. Joseph Chan uses this approach to explore different variations of moves and to understand their nuances, which helps him adapt and innovate in his Jiu-Jitsu practice.

Highlights

Joseph Chan's impressive Jiu-Jitsu skills caught attention at 17, despite being a newcomer.

Chan's rapid improvement in Jiu-Jitsu has made him a rising star in the sport.

At 19, Chan is considered a prodigy, with many watching his progress closely.

Chan's process for accelerating learning in Jiu-Jitsu is a topic of interest.

His approach to training involves a mix of self-direction and learning from coaches.

Chan's introduction to Jiu-Jitsu was through online MMA and video games like UFC 3.

He started training in Jiu-Jitsu at 14 and quickly developed a passion for it.

Chan's early training was influenced by podcasts and books on learning and mental models.

The book 'Art of Learning' by Josh Waitzkin had a significant impact on Chan's learning philosophy.

Chan's training philosophy involves a balance between growth and performance.

He emphasizes the importance of making techniques instinctive through repetition.

Chan also focuses on refining techniques by making smaller adjustments and experimenting.

He discusses the concept of 'tinkering' in training, similar to the idea of innovators versus honers in gaming.

Chan believes in investing in loss as a way to grow and improve in Jiu-Jitsu.

His approach to drilling involves a dialogue with training partners to enhance learning.

Chan's parents were initially concerned about his choice to focus on Jiu-Jitsu over traditional education.

His long-term goal is to reach the highest levels in Jiu-Jitsu, with a flexible plan that adapts to his evolving interests.

Transcripts

to establish any meaningful grips oh

look at this

movement probably don't know who this

guy is but Joseph Chan he first came to

my gym beat him in Texas as a

17-year-old with bleach blond hair I

thought he was another regular tourist

popping through I rolled with him I was

very very impressed with how good he was

pjj Prodigy upand Comer Joseph Chen of

the team Ali onlyi this guy Joseph Chan

still I believe only 19 years of age I

would say I'm a Jiu-Jitsu competitor and

currently training out of B team however

right now just traveling this guy is

like a mystery and yet a writing star in

the world of Jiu-Jitsu I want to talk to

you about this and about how you've

gotten so good so quickly all right

that's a question on everyone's mind y

some big names are saying you know

you've got to watch this guy give us an

honest answer enough with this

get out of here we want the truth like

what's your process look like and what

are the things that you do differently

that's allowed you to accelerate your

learning like that probably know me from

either who's number one let's see if you

can find the finish here P or Andrew

tet you have to pay close attention to

Joseph Jan because he could be a future

world

champion I mean I it's hard to I don't

think I really understand what happened

so far

yet finish

a it's still a little bit like it's not

registering

[Applause]

yet cuz everyone's always asking me

about your heritage and I'm like I got

no [ __ ] idea right so I want to get

to know your origin story you're kind of

threw us around in different places

you're obviously very young when did

Jiu-Jitsu find its way into your life

let me think I did striking for when I

was like 13 in school one of my

classmates you could beat the [ __ ] out

of Daman I'm [ __ ] you

up got my money on show but after that

once I turned 14 I decided okay me and

my friend we wanted to learn how to do

Jiu-Jitsu so we looked up our local

Jiu-Jitsu gym you just decided like you

want to go check out Jiu-Jitsu yeah cuz

we didn't really know how to do do

Jiu-Jitsu like striking it seemed pretty

easy but Jiu-Jitsu were like what the

[ __ ] but after doing Jiu-Jitsu for like

a couple months I was like I think I

like this more

so I ended up sticking with that so it

was really just from online watching MMA

thinking it's pretty cool and then

wanting to give it a shot yourself

basically yeah I'm like playing UFC 3

I'm like oh this m roll looks cool of

course the video game is now the

entrance into the sport itself that's

not that not that surprising but when Co

hit I was actually in Taiwan and I

wasn't able to go back to China school

was cancelled or at least postponed for

the time being being actually had a lot

of time to train as well as study so

that's when I started watching

instructionals listening to BJJ mental

models I started listening to this

podcast when I was an orange belt and so

that definitely introduced me to many

ideas that I wasn't necessarily familiar

with I read art of learning when I heard

it on this podcast for those who haven't

heard me prattle on about Josh weit skin

the relevant thing for us is he's a

black belt under Marcelo Garcia and he's

heavily involved in the creation of

marcelo's mg in action Academy and he's

also the author of the art of learning

which is an amazing resource for

sport-based skill development and

building a mindset conducive to learning

another book that I really like it's

again a gaming book it's it's called the

will to keep winning and he's like one

of the first pro gamers in the world of

Street Fighter and he he has a really

nice book that talks about a lot of

these ideas in depth and I think it's

very interesting cuz you could almost

like if you just replace a few words you

could you could almost think he's

talking about Jiu-Jitsu that's when I

started to become a little more um

self-directed in in the form of my

learning because I found that it just in

my mind it made sense that you don't

really want to you obviously you want to

uh learn from your coach or whoever is

there to instruct you but that can't be

your only source of information so I

just trained every day Vision nothing

else no distractions and yeah so that

was like the kind of like the first

taste of me being able to train like

fulltime out of all the gyms why did you

choose B team did you know someone at B

team or like how did that come about

well obviously like I was fan of the

like DDS so I was definitely going to go

to one of the gyms but also when I first

came here I just I wasn't sure which one

I was going to go to but then I ended up

living closer to B team and then I first

came here and I really enjoyed it I

think the thing that influenced me the

most to like my the way I thought about

oh I I actually should learn this

technique was getting it hit on me so

some of the [ __ ] Craig would do to me a

lot of the [ __ ] Ethan would do to me all

a lot of [ __ ] Daman and all of them

would do to me I'm like I might have

overlooked in the instructional like I'm

I might have tried playing around with

it but I've never had it been used that

effectively on me so I was like oh [ __ ]

okay I need to definitely work on this

and then I'm like so especially Craig

Craig did a lot of his power ride and

power bottom and power top stuff on me

and I was like okay this this works very

well I might need to take a more indepth

look at this what then would be you know

what's the what's the most recent

instructional that you have watched that

you think is the one you know that

people should be keeping an eye on or

are there any let's say any hidden gems

that you would recommend people check

out I'd say probably Gordon's half guard

passing John's uh New Wave passing um

Craig's power power ride and Nikki's

wrestle up were probably the most most

interesting to me as of late like I

think probably the first thing that led

to me thinking like this is first of all

like in the art of learning Josh wait

skin talks about two different ideas

that I think are quite opposing and that

kind of inspired me to take this idea

elsewhere and now I see it similarly in

other areas where he talks about U form

to Le form as well as U making smaller

circles and for me at least the way I

interpreted that information I saw them

as kind of contrasting methods to

approach training and eventually that

turned into like what I would call

growth versus performance and two

different ways to train I use form to Le

form from my understanding it's more of

a idea in which you're looking to take

explicit knowledge and make it more

implicit or at least bring in a lot more

intuition in which you don't have to

consciously think about what you're

doing but it's more of uh instinctive

reaction and I think for me at least in

the way I talk about growth versus

performance I would put formally form in

the performance area where you're

looking to take skills that you've been

consciously working on and bring them

into your subconscious so you're able to

do them especially in situations in

which there's greater pressure so in

competition you don't necessarily have

the time and have the like the reactions

in which you would have in the gym it's

going to be a lot more High paced it's

going to be a lot more aggressive and so

you can't really rely at least you can't

rely all the time on you actively

thinking out of these situations cuz a

lot of the situations that you're

presented with now are going to be far

more time sensitive than they were in

the gym cuz people are going to be

reacting super fast people are really

care about the outcome so very different

and so that's how I see it fit in you

practice the form until you don't need

the form anymore now the other item you

brought up also from Josh's book is he

talks about making smaller circles and

again a concept that was very formative

for me but I would want to hear in your

words how you've applied that and what

that concept means to you in practice at

least again in my in my interpretation

is that it's similar to taking what you

already have and looking to refine it

try to take a lot of the nuances and

then make them conscious so you're able

to think of different ways you can use

them so for example like the example you

were talking about earlier is like this

armar transition wherever it may be from

if you're able to do it

intuitively it's hard to make

adjustments to so if you want to change

something about it whether it's foot

placement or timing or weight

distribution Etc it's going to be hard

when it's stuck in like a very intuitive

state so for me uh making smaller

circles would be trying to make it less

intuitive more conscious and so you're

able to start to make these adjustments

also you're able to think more deeply

about this technique and

in ways where you can think about oh how

else can I use this in other areas is

there a different way I can do this is

there a different like sequentially can

I do it in a different order Etc on one

hand you're talking about the process of

making things so automatic you don't

even have to think about them but on the

other hand now you're talking about

deliberately thinking about things and

stripping away the non-essential and

kind of focusing on what's really

important and that's one of the things

about Jiu-Jitsu that I found really a

challenge to get my head around is that

there often are not any absolute answers

a lot of the time it's a polarity it's a

spectrum sometimes you do things one way

sometimes you do things the other way

and it's all just very context dependent

I watch this YouTube video by Corey

gaming in which they talked about

innovators versus H owners innovators

are players who want to figure out new

strategies in a new game in the purest

sense they want to keep finding

solutions to Unique problems well some

people want to practice or study things

in a game to get good magic Creator

Richard Garfield refers to these players

as honer in other words execution and

knowledge I think of them as two very

necessary parts to your approach to

Jiu-Jitsu cuz I find that if you only

have one like let's say you're only

looking to like improve technique in

terms of like finding new technique to

work on Etc however you don't take into

account this performance aspect then you

can know very many techniques and you

can understand all of them however when

you're put under pressure it's going to

be much more harder for you to use them

especially in a competitive situation as

opposed to I think there are other

people that only focus on performance in

which they only train hard it's always

Under Pressure it becomes a lot harder

for you to start incorporating new

techniques new strategies Etc so I view

them as both very necessary but you kind

of have to go between like an EB and a

flow of One Versus the other are you

drilling EX exactly what you see in the

instructionals or do you see the

instructionals and then you're like all

right in live training I'm going to try

this like what's your learning when when

there's not when there's not a set class

there's not set High Level Training

Partners like how are you and your group

of guys progressing or how are you

making sure that you're progressing at a

fast rate for example if it's something

I'm fairly competent in like let's say

it's like some sort of Deli hea sweep so

in that situation I wouldn't necessarily

drill the move so much as opposed to I

would more try to do specific rounds

because the movement isn't very is

fairly familiar and it's nothing too

hard to do just applying it yeah if

something's more difficult like so

sometimes um if I had trouble with some

leg entries or like the movement itself

is difficult then I'll isolate repping

the movement itself will you rep the

movement out like in if it's hard to do

if I can do it and in terms of

Performing the actual movement in itself

um is diff is difficult then I'll rep it

but if it's easy like if you do like

some half guard pass yeah the doing the

movement itself isn't difficult it's

knowing when to hit it and like okay the

timing it exactly I don't remember I

read a I read a book I I can't exactly

recall the name I think it's called

Mastery and I think I heard someone

recommend it once but it basically

talked about different types of

practitioners of various Arts whether

it's like a martial arts or something

else but I remember one being called

like uh basically talking about

tinkering and that definitely influenced

how I thought of uh Drilling and

tinkering I think I like that word a

fair bit in terms of trying to

experiment and kind of sandbox a lot of

these things where okay I'm doing like

today I was doing 50/50 ankle loog I was

trying to play around with it because

it's something I'm not very familiar

with trying to have a dialogue like

that's what I do when I teach classes I

have them talk so having a dialogue

between your partner how does this feel

if they're like they're not tapping I'm

like why didn't you tap to this I'm like

oh I think you could have done this

better etc etc it's like oh what how do

you feel when I do this movement like

having that dialogue I think really help

it's like okay oh I feel like I'm going

to look to move in this direction or

something along those lines feel like my

foot's going to explode then you can

drill and it's not just like I think one

of the things that suck about drilling

as well is okay if you're being drilled

on and they're just doing 100 knats this

is going to be terrible you're going to

get bored out of your mind but now

you're actually engaging both parties so

both people can actually learn from this

exchange by doing this and asking them

and giving them them these prompts it

also helps them gain a better

understanding of what they're doing and

also stimulates their mind as well

instead of them just sitting there

lifeless or just giving a very I say

Bland reaction they're able to actually

think about uh ideas for themselves and

then I find that you can once again like

you said like generate a Ty of feedback

loop this ties into another concept you

talked about earlier again which Josh

whiteskin talks about in his book and

that is investing in loss when you're

generally going into a competitive

situation of course your priority is to

win and that usually means you're

focusing on your aame right but when

you're trying to learn and you're trying

to grow you're actually probably going

to be focusing on the things you're not

good at and that's hard for people right

because you have to do things that you

suck at and no one wants to feel like

they suck so something that Josh weiten

talks about in his book is learning to

view losing not as something that's

taken away from you but rather as an

investment in your growth and by

changing your mindset in that way it

becomes more comfortable to go into

these losing situations and to play your

your b game for example where you're not

necessarily going to dominate it can be

hard for people to do that but when

you're in the gym and you're training

that's the mentality you want because

just going into the gym and doing

competition roles every single day

trying to win you're just going to wind

up practicing the same techniques over

and over again you're not going to be

trying to add new tools into your game

plan if you're afraid to lose and it can

be quite daunting especially I think I

think a lot of people like especi my

myself included I get in my head when I

compete and especially when I want to

try work something new I get very

nervous especially cuz there's this game

that I I associate as my a game and so

when I look to deviate from that I get a

lot more nervous than if I were to not

do that but I think it's also like

similar we talk about there's like a lot

of these things are very necessary in

order for you to improve yeah did you

finish High

School nice I I basically I have most of

my a levels completed but then the time

where the exams were happening I was

like oh the trials are happening at that

time I'm like let's do the trials I I

can finish them soon but right now it's

not the priority how uh how are your

parents with whatever not finish high

school once I started like like being

somewhat successful my mom my mom was

like fairly supportive she was just

concerned like okay I don't want you to

be like homeless and like just [ __ ]

everything up so once it was like clear

that that wasn't the case and I was like

fairly I was doing well first doing well

in China and then I was able to like be

fairly well known there and then compete

internationally after that she was like

quite good with it but then my dad was

just like he he's like I think cuz he he

came from like a fairly poor family and

he didn't get to do University because

he had to work he really wanted me to do

that over time I definitely have been

influenced a fair bit by like obviously

I read art of learning when I heard it

on this podcast and then I just did a

bit of thinking on that and then read

some other books and then watched some

YouTube videos and then slowly it kind

of I wouldn't say I took everything from

one place but it's kind of like a like a

mesh of like information that I found

now what what is the goal for you cuz I

know you did you did striking MMA before

but now you're just Jiu-Jitsu is the

goal to reach the highest levels in

Jiu-Jitsu or is it really try to get to

MMA what is what is the path what do you

what do you want to do what what's your

five 10 year plan um 10 years I don't

really have mapped out I'm honestly

going to play it by year in terms of see

how much I still enjoy doing this so

like I don't know [ __ ] me hopefully this

works

[Music]

out