Fireside Chat with Naval Ravikant & Niklas Anzinger | AI & Technological Progress - Vitalia

Summary

このビデオスクリプトでは、テクノロジーの民主化がどのようにして誰もがクリエイターや起業家、科学者になれる可能性を提供しているか、そしてそれが将来にどのような明るい展望をもたらすかについて語られています。スマートな人々がどうして未来に対して懐疑的になりがちなのか、そしてなぜ私たちが楽観的であるべきかについての洞察が共有されています。さらに、イノベーションと自由の重要性、規制による創造性の制限、AIの可能性、そして人間のクリエイティビティの未来についても議論されています。

Takeaways

• 😀 Nal believes the future is bright due to democratization of technology allowing anyone to create, build companies, and conduct science
• 😊 He argues that while imaginining downsides is important, it's impossible to predict revolutionary breakthroughs that will better humanity
• 🧐 Epistemology - having a theory distinguishing truth from falsehoods - makes you smarter by allowing deriving knowledge from first principles
• 🔬 Decentralized science has always existed, as anyone rigorous and curious can be a scientist; funding can come from wealthy people seeking life extension
• 😎 True test of intelligence is getting what you want out of life; so wish for the right things and have strong opinions loosely held
• 🌟 Creativity that generates new knowledge is unique to evolution and humans; AI today recombines things but cannot reason or summarize well
• 🤔 The hard problem of consciousness remains mysterious - why do we feel experience and awareness versus being philosophical zombies
• ⏳ Regulation blocks innovation so medical tourism circumvents restrictions, allowing informed risk-taking in search of vitality
• 🚀 Human social and cultural coordination unlocks potential for innovations to compound and spread quickly
• 🎉 Nal started Air Chat conversation app to promote free speech and let people worldwide talk to smart people

Q & A

テクノロジーの民主化とはどのような意味ですか？

テクノロジーの民主化とは、技術が一般の人々に広くアクセス可能になり、誰もがクリエーター、起業家、科学者になる機会を持てる状態を指します。これは、将来がより明るいと考える根拠の一つです。

なぜスマートな人々は将来に対して悲観的になりがちなのですか？

スマートな人々は様々なダウンサイドシナリオ、つまり物事が悪く進む可能性を想像するのが得意です。これは人間が危険を避けるために進化した結果ですが、過度に悲観的になるとイノベーションの可能性を見過ごすリスクがあります。

イノベーションが重要であるとされる理由は何ですか？

イノベーションは、新しいアイデアや技術が社会全体に広がり、生活の質を向上させ、経済成長を促進するために不可欠です。イノベーションによって、未来に向けてより良い変化がもたらされると考えられています。

規制がイノベーションに与える負の影響とは何ですか？

規制はリスクを取ることを制限するため、イノベーションの障害になることがあります。過剰な規制は新しいアイデアや技術の実験を阻害し、結果として社会全体の進歩を遅らせる可能性があります。

フリーな環境がイノベーションにどのように貢献するのですか？

フリーな環境では、人々が自由にアイデアを共有し、新しいことに挑戦できます。これにより、創造性が促進され、イノベーションが生まれやすくなります。

AI技術が社会にどのようなポジティブな影響を与えると考えられていますか？

AI技術は、効率化、新しいサービスや製品の開発、さらには医療や教育など多くの分野での改善に寄与すると考えられています。AIによって、日常生活がより便利で質の高いものになることが期待されています。

生命延長技術が社会にどのような変化をもたらすと予想されていますか？

生命延長技術によって、人々の健康寿命が延び、より長く活動的な人生を送ることが可能になると予想されています。これにより、経済や社会構造にも大きな変化が生じる可能性があります。

自動運転技術が都市の構造にどのような影響を与えると考えられていますか？

自動運転技術が普及すると、交通の効率化が進み、駐車場の必要性が減少します。これにより、都市空間がより歩行者に優しい設計になるとともに、新たな公共空間の創出が可能になると考えられています。

科学の分野でのイノベーションを加速するためには何が必要ですか？

科学のイノベーションを加速するためには、自由な研究環境、適切な資金提供、オープンアクセスの推進、そして異分野間のコラボレーションが必要です。これにより、新しい発見が促され、社会への応用が早まります。

人間のクリエイティビティがAIによってどのように強化されると考えられていますか？

AIは人間のクリエイティビティをデータ分析やアイデアの生成、さらにはデザインや芸術など様々な分野でサポートすることができます。これにより、人間はより創造的な活動に集中でき、新しいアイデアや作品を生み出す速度が向上すると考えられています。

Outlines

00:00

🌟テクノロジーの民主化と未来の明るさ

このパラグラフでは、テクノロジーの民主化がどのようにして誰もがクリエイター、起業家、科学者になることを可能にし、未来を明るくしているかについて語られています。スマートな人々が未来に対して懐疑的である理由と、なぜ私たちは楽観的であるべきかについての議論が展開されます。革新と自由が人類の生活を向上させる鍵であるという視点が提示されています。

05:01

🚀イノベーションの障害としての規制

このパラグラフでは、規制がイノベーションにどのように障害となっているかについて詳述しています。医療、ドローン、投資などの分野での規制が新しい治療法や技術の開発を阻害している具体例が挙げられています。解決策として、システムを通じて作業することや、自由な場所での革新の重要性が強調されています。

10:02

🌱バイオテクノロジーとAIの未来

このパラグラフでは、バイオテクノロジーと人工知能（AI）がどのように人類の未来を形作るかについて議論しています。特に、医療におけるAIの利用、自動運転車の進化、およびバイオテクノロジーによる生命延長の可能性に焦点を当てています。人間の創造性がこれらの技術の進化を促進する鍵であると述べられています。

15:04

🧬バイオロジーの理解と生命延長

このパラグラフでは、バイオロジーの理解がどのように生命延長と健康の改善に貢献するかについて論じています。現代医療の限界と、それに対する新しいアプローチの必要性が強調されています。また、自由な実験とリスクテイキングの重要性が生命延長の鍵であると述べられています。

20:05

🔍科学とテクノロジーの哲学

このパラグラフでは、科学とテクノロジーに対する深い哲学的な見解が提供されています。自身の学習と発見への情熱、そして真実を追求する過程での厳密さの重要性について語られています。また、社会的な認識と個人の知識追求のバランスについても議論しています。

25:06

🧠AIの知性と創造性

このパラグラフでは、AIが持つ「知性」についての理解と、それが人間の創造性とどのように異なるかについて探求しています。AIが現在持つ能力とその限界、および将来的にAIが創造性を持つ可能性についての見解が示されています。

Keywords

💡テクノロジーの民主化

テクノロジーの民主化は、科学技術が一部の人々だけでなく、一般の人々にも広く利用されるようになることを意味します。このスクリプトでは、テクノロジーがどのようにして誰もがクリエーター、起業家、科学者になる機会を提供し、未来を明るくするかについて議論されています。

💡革新

革新は、新しいアイデアや方法、または物を導入する行為を指します。スクリプトでは、革新が人類の進歩にどのように貢献しているか、また、革新を生み出す自由な環境の重要性について語られています。

💡啓蒙時代

啓蒙時代は、18世紀に科学的発見や理性を重んじる思想が花開いた時代を指します。このスクリプトでは、啓蒙時代がいかにして現代の革新の基礎を築いたかについて触れられています。

💡コミュニティ

コミュニティは、共通の興味や目的を持つ人々の集まりです。スクリプトでは、小規模で密接なコミュニティがいかにして強固なつながりや機会を生み出すかについて語られています。

💡エラー訂正

エラー訂正は、間違いを特定し、それを修正するプロセスです。このスクリプトでは、科学的探究やテクノロジーの発展において、エラー訂正がいかに重要であるかが強調されています。

💡自由

自由は、制限や強制なく行動や思考を行える状態を指します。スクリプトでは、創造性や革新が花開くためには、表現や行動の自由が不可欠であると述べられています。

💡人間の創造性

人間の創造性は、新しいアイデアや物事を生み出す能力を指します。スクリプトでは、人間の創造性が無限であり、未来を明るくするために重要であるとされています。

💡生活の質

生活の質は、健康、快適さ、幸福など、生活の条件や環境の良し悪しを示します。このスクリプトでは、テクノロジーと革新が生活の質をどのように向上させるかについて語られています。

💡リスク

リスクは、何かが望ましくない結果に終わる可能性を指します。スクリプトでは、新しいアイデアや技術を試す際に伴うリスクを恐れず、前進する重要性が強調されています。

💡AI（人工知能）

AIは、人間の知能を模倣し、学習や問題解決ができるコンピューターシステムです。スクリプトでは、AIが未来の革新にどのように貢献するか、その可能性について議論されています。

Highlights

Truth requires testing ideas against objective, remorseless feedback from nature and free markets.

We need better explanatory theories in biology based on innovation, risk-taking, and experimentation.

Freedom is the parent of innovation and prosperity.

Doctors should not be gatekeepers or priests that speak for everybody.

AI helps recombine facts and translate information, but lacks creativity to generate new knowledge.

Humans are capable of maximal knowledge as universal explainers.

Optimism comes from free thinking to correct errors and share discoveries through technology.

Biology lacks explanatory theories and relies on rules of thumb.

Decentralized science is naturally curious and rigorous to discover new things.

Everyone with enough time becomes a philosopher by thinking deeply about life.

Freedom today is greater than ever with more life options through technology.

Accelerate technology but retain human agency and intellectual autonomy.

Social media enables more people to speak freely versus centralized mass media.

Current social networks focus on broadcasting, not meaningful conversations.

Decentralization solves problems after figuring out how to make a product work.

Transcripts

um just the most interesting people are

doing the most interesting things right

so CH your time here as the first ones

and earlier doctors of Italia so

absolutely and and and the community I

would say also they because it's smaller

it's more intimate the the opportunity

that you get to build a community is

just at a different

level great Nal um someone asked me what

should be the title of our conversation

and they write a really cool quote from

from you that says um the

democratization of Technology allows

anyone to be a Creator entrepreneur and

scientist the future is brighter I like

the tagline the future is brighter U why

would anyone why would a smart person

disagree with that before you expand on

why the future is brighter well I think

smart people are very good at imagining

downside scenarios they're very good at

imagining all the ways that things can

go wrong and that's not just smart

people that's everybody we're hardwired

that way as humans because if you don't

imagine the downside Ed scenarios the

outcome can be catastrophic but uh we

are living in a time when there is an

enormous amount of innovation going on

and that's because we went through an

era called the enlightenment era and

since then we've discovered science

we've discovered how to correct errors

and how to get smarter and it just takes

one person to make a breakthrough for

all of humanity one person who discovers

uh an anti-aging solution one person who

discovers relativity one person who

invents the steam engine and that then

goes out to everybody and human

creativity is fundamentally Unlimited

uh and so I think that the future is

bright we should be optimistic because

now that we have discovered how to

through free thinking and Free Speech

correct errors and make new discoveries

and spread them to other people and then

automate them through technology that

life should be getting better and better

and it's easy to imagine downside risks

but it's impossible by definition to

imagine what the good stuff is that's

going to happen next yes you can make

General predictions like Singularity or

whatever but those aren't really that

helpful other than spreading the optim

is a meme because if we could predict

what the next thing was and if we could

predict it completely accurately then we

would have already invented it and

that's just not how it works these

things take time they take Ingenuity

they take free thinking they take

freedom freedom to create to earn uh and

to distribute and so I think people are

here because it's free prospera is free

that's why you are here if prospera was

incredibly restrictive in what you could

say and what you could do then you

wouldn't be here this would be the wrong

place to be so it is that freedom as

Matt Ridley uh says something like you

know freedom is the parent of innov what

is it no Prosperity is the uh child of

freedom and the parent of prosperity I

think that's what he said uh and I think

that's absolutely accurate so I think we

should be optimistic as long as we are

free to create and free to discuss and

free to uh distribute these these

learnings it seems to be that we as

entrepreneurs technologist tinkerers

there is kind of a presumption against

Innovation because we fear that downside

which is why in this industry that we're

in there's so many regulations around

Healthcare which is making it harder for

us to innovate so what's kind of the

mechanism that can unlock that energy

besides in a being in a free place yeah

unfortunately the The Regulators do a

lot more harm these days uh because they

can't tolerate any downside risk uh so

they're completely binary you're not

allowed to hurt anybody or kill anybody

under any circumstance but yet billions

of people die of old age and hundreds of

millions of people die of cancer and all

these missing therapies that don't get

to exist the FAA essentially drove the

Drone business out of the United States

by not letting drones fly so now all the

drones are made in China congratulations

that'll probably cost us Taiwan longer

term uh you know the uh SEC basically

limits all investment so people can't

earn so they have to put into t- bills

and stocks and they can't go into

private Investments and the private

sector gets starved for uh Venture

Capital uh you know as proportion

Venture Capital Innovation Capital still

just a minuscule percentage of the

economy and the same way the FDA

basically says no no you can't do any

harm whatsoever so you can't take any

risk you can't experiment with nuclear

power plants because God forbid

something goes wrong right etc etc so

because these innovator sorry because

these Regulators can't do any cost

benefit tradeoff they always only

restrict and it is easier to restrict

people it is easier to stop people than

to let them create things um so it's

just very unfortunate the whole system

that's been set up uh now how do we kind

of break past that especially in the

medical domain well I think you can

obviously try to work through the system

and that requires a billion dollars in

pharmaceutical trials that that and

people are doing it and it requires kind

of going after politically protected

things like okay here's a cancer gene

therapy for a certain protected class

and it makes us all look good if it

works out or you try it on dogs but the

reality is the rest of the world is not

going to just sit around and die just

because a few regulators and a few

developed world economies are intent on

protecting the retirement home that

they've built for everybody cuz that's

some some sometimes what it feels like

right it's like a giant retirement home

we're all just going to uh party and eat

and drink until we die and that's just

not how the young people want to live so

you're seeing places coming up around

the world it's not just prospera but

there are other places where people are

looking towards the future and they say

well look we we do want to live longer

and we do want to live healthier you

know we've we've increased uh lifespan

but not not necessarily in the best way

a lot of it just came from getting rid

of infant mortality and then the

remaining few uh decade or two that

we've are attacked on to the end it's a

shitty part right it's like okay I'm in

an old folks home for 20 years longer

that's not how you want to live you want

to live with Vitality um and so the

promise of that is so strong that now if

we can start have breakthrough therapies

like I know mini Circle doing some

interesting things down here there are

new things happening with peptides there

new things happening with anti-aging and

the gp1 a Agonist for example I think

will end obesity in Western countries uh

that's going to be a huge game Cher uh

people are going to wake up and say wait

a minute you mean I could have taken a

magic pill all along and dialed in my

exact weight or my muscular structure or

perhaps even other kinds of therapies

that people are talking about that might

make me smarter or extend my lifespan by

30% um I think those kinds of things are

going to be incredible eye openers and

medical tourism is making a little bit

of this viable where people are now

traveling around and getting things done

uh but I I just see that the the genie

is bursting out of the lamp right people

are just going to say you know if you

want to die go ahead but I'm not going

to I'm not making that

choice let's talk a bit about AI

artificial intelligence um seems like

that is a next wave of like the digital

Frontier the internet opened a digital

Frontier um what's the how much what's

the case for AI helping us really break

into the physical Frontier more like in

medical AI to me is an incredibly useful

tool it's not going to replace us

anytime soon because these AIS are not

agis they're not Universal explainers

they're some hypothesis and scare

mongering that they're going to

automatically turn into agis just if we

add more compute I don't think that's

the case I don't think we have a theory

for AGI yet we don't understand how it

would work we don't yet understand how

creativity and true intelligence works

but there's a level of creativity that

these AIS can help us with which is

recombining facts and what they really

are is they're natural language

computers uh so for the first time

instead of us having to learn the

language of the computer and program in

C or python or assembly and structure

everything very very carefully the

computers learn our language they learn

English they learn Spanish they talk to

us and we can converse back and forth

with them that right there is a massive

breakthrough there're also fundamentally

translation engines but what they can

translate is a lot not just languages

not just putting speech to text but also

uh things like translating from uh what

the road looks like to how a car should

drive it to translating from coding from

one language to another so I consider AI

to be uh you know it's it's like a what

calculation H and and computers did for

calculation for mathematicians and for

people uh for engineers and for people

writing code and and and building

structures and and building machines uh

AI will now allow us to do that for the

natural language so it will allow us to

do that for all the other domains that

were sort of left out and computers now

become much less esoteric something that

only programmers can access and

everybody else has to consume their

output to everybody else can now uh

communicate with computers directly and

more naturally even even such simple

things as the keyboard the typing right

that's an anachronism that's a that's an

invention that came after the printing

press then we had typewriters then we

had keyboards but once you have perfect

speech to text keyboards are going to go

away it's like Star Trek Star Trek they

don't sit there you know typing

everything into the keyboard no they

they talk to the computer the computer

talks back to them except for Ursula

who's there pressing some random buttons

just to remind people that it's a

computer uh so I I I think we're headed

towards an age of ubiquitous natural

language Computing uh where the entire

internet and all of its recombinations

or your fingertips uh AIS are helping

you with driving with coding with

translation with transcription breaking

down barriers uh and there's more things

that they will do it'll be really

interesting when it enters the field of

Robotics you can now see that robots are

making huge jumps instead of having to

be programmed for very specific uh

actions I think it's like more of X

Paradox that like simple things like a

toddler walking around really hard to do

with robots but complex things like

manipulating drugs is really easy well

now that's changing thanks to AI I think

Transformers will bring SE self-driving

everywhere weo is already working really

well in California you're going to see

Tesla with its camera Solutions within

next few years combined with

Transformers figure it out so

self-driving you know 99% self-driving

will come and it's going to change our

lives in incredible ways imagine you

know if you walk into a modern city 1/3

to 1/5 of the space is taken up in

parking garages and parking spots that

disappears in a self-driving World

self-driving cars can packet switch on

on the road they can just occupy one

lane and then cities suddenly become

walking paradises how does that change

our world what if you wake up in the

morning you get into your living room

and it's actually an RV and the door

closes and it undocks from your house

and it drives to the next RV docks and

there's your meeting it's just driving

around you don't even know where you're

going next it's just connecting to your

friends real estate and cars become one

thing right so there's just a that that

alone just that unluck alone will change

society as We Know It uh so I think

we're starting to go through another

wave of innovation and change and I hope

to see the same thing in biotech uh you

know where biotech really suffers is

it's not an explanatory science it's a

rule of thumb based science we just try

lots and lots of things and you kind of

don't really know underneath how they

work there's a few explanatory theories

in biology like Evolution and The Germ

theory of disease but mostly it's just

like well this works as the mtor pathway

well why the mtor because there's the

foxo Gen well why the foxo Gen well

there's like this you know there's this

other thing and it's just like complex

names being explained in terms of

complex names being explained in terms

of complex names right and then there

maybe there's a cycle underneath that we

sort of understand but when you go to a

doctor a doctor just has a whole bunch

of rules of thumb that they memorized

from 20 years ago and their thinking has

not been updated so I think we need to

develop much better explanatory theories

in biology that requires Innovation that

requires risk-taking that requires

experimentation both in AI models as

well as in real life we need to have the

right to try the right to take informed

risk with consent uh especially for

desperate populations that are dying

they shouldn't have to go beg the FDA

and by the way we're all dying every

single one of us every single day we get

a little older and you know it gets a

little worse let me tell you I'm on the

other side of that hill and it's not

it's not pleasant it's all downhill from

here um so let's turn that around yeah

it's kind of in a way yes

Applause I am I literally preaching with

the choir yeah it's kind of a contrast

right between computers and biology

biology is a system that we didn't

engineer right so we have to figure out

how it actually works with these rule of

thumb whereas computers or AI we kind of

know the input and we have started it

from a point of um sort of Designing the

system yeah AI is really interesting

that way because these computers uh one

of the things that makes them sort of

fascinating and I think gives people

nightmare scenarios that we don't quite

know exactly how a given one one works

we do know how to build them you dump a

lot of data in in your machine learning

algorithm so it's not some completely

mysterious thing like people would have

you make it out to be but uh we don't

know the exact workings on the inside

that's okay there are systems we

understand where we don't understand the

exact workings inside evolution is one

of them evolution is explanatory Theory

yet you cannot predict what the next

random mutation is going to be and what

the next organism is going to be but you

still do have good explanation for how

Evolution works and we're sort of at the

same level with AI but we're starting to

evolve them almost deliberately and so

we can see some Innovation that's going

to come there that is much more uh

reflective of how biology works and so

there's no reason to think that we can't

figure out how biology works we just

need better explanations just like

before Einstein came along we couldn't

explain you know why during an eclipse

the light would bend a certain way and

that star was out of place now we can

before Einstein came along we couldn't

build GPS tracking because we weren't

accurate enough because there would be

error Newtonian mechanics were an

approximation but an incorrect one

ultimately so the same way we need

better explanatory theories in biology

and I hope that the search for Life

Extension will attract good people uh

one of the things that Elon Musk really

did well and which is why he's uh he's

done so well for all of us is he just

set audacious goals and he meant it he

wants to die on Mars he doesn't want to

die on Earth or he wants to live forever

but hopefully but you know he wants to

get to Mars the same way with Tesla he

didn't say I want to build electric cars

with better batteries he said I want

self-driving cars right so he put an

audacious goal out the same way I think

Sam Alman says I want AGI he's not

content with just the narrow AI that we

have today um so the same way I hope

that people will say well I want to live

forever and you know that may that may

seem extreme to some people to some

scared people and to them I say look you

always have the option to die you can

always go die in the corner nobody cares

no offense but if you're keeping us all

hitched to you that's the problem right

that's a problem so I think the people

who want to live forever should go ahead

and spread that Meme yeah that's why

than

yeah that's why our slogan at Vitalia is

make death optional right you don't want

to be trapped under a rock in pain not

being able to die right yeah I mean it's

sort of ludicrous that some people say

well you know trying to live forever is

unnatural really well your actual

lifespan a few hundred years ago would

have been 30 years old before all the

diseases hit you you're using you don't

have a problem with antibiotics you

don't seem to have a problem with

anything you know aspirin you don't seem

to have a problem with organ transplants

you don't seem to have a problem with

blood transfusions you don't seem to

have a problem with covid vaccines but

all of a sudden you have a problem with

life extension it doesn't make any sense

whatsoever it's a contradiction in terms

you ask people right when went five

years longer yes another five years you

know I I hate to I hate to be pejorative

but on this one I I'm going to be

because I feel like this is too

important of a topic I think this is

self-hatred like a self-loathing that

they then project out into the world

tell tell more they don't like

themselves so they want to project it on

everybody else it's low self-esteem r

large yeah yeah

yeah I have a question um on so Science

and Technology are kind of stacking

right we don't have to understand it but

civilization advances by the number of

operations that you can perform without

thinking I was wondering if you have an

opinion because that's a debate we're

having here quite often what comes first

is it like the entrepreneur The Thinker

that do does things about TR error or

the scientist first who figures out like

General r and then other things can be

built on top yeah I don't I don't have a

strong viewpoint on this uh there are

examples of both right you do need

theoreticians and thinkers who can

expand uh for example physics right the

but at the same time a lot of the

invention actually seems to come in

friction with the real world in contact

with the real world so if you go back

and you look at the Industrial

Revolution there was an enormous amount

of invention that came out of the Edison

and the Teslas and the maronies and the

James watts and those kinds of people

because they were in contact with the

real world and you need that feedback

for the iteration and a lot of invention

happens through a specific problem a

specific need that you need to solve but

at the same time we have celebrate

examples of pure theoreticians like uh

Albert Einstein or David Deutsch who are

kind of sitting around and thinking the

big thoughts and then come up with

something uh so I think there's room for

both uh but generally speaking if you

just look at the broad Arc of History

most of innovation and invention has

even scientific innovation has been

driven by I would argue the inventors

the entrepreneurs the ones who are

actually building things but it's not to

say that there isn't space for the pure

theoreticians and the mathematicians and

the physicists there's room for both

yeah yeah it's it's not either or and

look smart people capable people don't

let themselves be pigeonholed into one

definition that is a disease of

credentialism because we created this

University and now you got to go to

university and you got to get a degree

in something then people say well what

is your expert te what is your

credential that's a question dumb people

ask smart people don't ask that smart

people don't know your need to know your

credentials they just talk to you for 5

minutes and they figure out if you know

what you're talking about or not and a

really good person a so-called natural

philosopher can be good in any branch of

anything Nature has no boundaries Nature

has no concept of mathematics versus

physics versus chemistry it is all one

thing and you know to anyone who's

either meditated or done psychedelics or

read enough books they figured that out

it's all one thing when you find one

thing it connects to the next thing

connects to the next thing connects to

the next thing and true creativity jumps

boundaries it can go from anywhere to

anywhere it doesn't have to follow a

path of interconnections in between can

you expound a bit on that because that's

also a way for many US in the audience

scientists and entrepreneurs we're kind

of following our curiosity trying to

find the PATH what's our next

thing David deut has a uh has a great uh

Criterion which he calls the fun

Criterion he says just do whatever's fun

and you'll kind of find your way to it

and there's a lot to that because that's

what you'll be most interested in that's

what you'll stick with that's what

you'll go deepest in if you're

interested in it now then you'll be

interesting about it later and so I

think Deutsch has really uh a good

criteria I would expand on that for

myself what do I have the most fun doing

because fun is a little too broad right

you could be you could have fun partying

and drinking you could and that's fine

too you know live your life but uh I I

would say that for me the fun criteria

the learning Criterion I live for that

aha moment when two things that I didn't

realize were connected connect together

and you get that feeling of Oneness and

you get closer to Source if you will and

so anything that connects two things in

my mind that were disconnected forms a

tighter deeper explanation and shows me

a deeper theory is fun and that's what

motivates me so I would say it's for fun

it's for learning it's for connecting

things together okay

um and how do you how do you decide

right because there are fun things that

aren't necessarily leading you anywhere

um but sometimes they lead you somewhere

and you don't know it when you're in

that moment thinking just follow the

thing that's most fun everything deep is

interesting deep down everything

connects to everything uh and you can

see this and everything from like Zen In

The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance to how

you have physicists going into fields

and making that are completely

orthogonal to physics and they'll make

huge breakthroughs in those fields so I

think you do want to follow your own

learning and fun and and all the

Innovation comes from tinkerers at the

edge and they're only you only recognize

later looking back that you can connect

the dots but I the the thing that I

think is important is to be rigorous uh

is to actually stay as truth oriented as

possible so you want to be optimistic in

the general you want to be optimistic

that yes I can find something

interesting here but you want to be

skeptical about the specific you don't

want to just believe every claim that

comes along and I and I find that a lot

of times when people are entering new

Fields they just believe everything for

example 10 people will approach you

they'll tell you 10 different Therapies

they'll only tell you the upsides well

it's like if you believe all of them

you're you're going to die because

you're going to take all 10 of those

shots and one of them will kill you or

at least hurt you so you do have to be

skeptical about the specifics but you

can be optimistic in the general what's

really bad is to be pessimistic in the

general because then you're just going

to lose no matter what and then be

optimistic in the specific because then

you're trying lots of things and you

have risk of Ruin on the downside can

you speak a bit more about having rigor

and true beliefs and basically an

epistemology of how see the world and

how to attain that yeah the uh truth is

a very difficult thing to come by the

the universe is mostly random and mostly

full of false beliefs uh and so truth it

requires a lot of rigor and the goal

standards for truth are you have to test

it against a larger system that will

give you objective feedback without

remorse other humans are the worst thing

to test against because we are socially

driven to collaborate groups need

consensus or they fall apart only the

individual can really search for truth

and the individual gets feedback through

two systems that are objective and

remorseless uh and one of those is

nature nature you know physics doesn't

care you run a physics experiment it

doesn't care who you are what you think

uh how badly you want it to work it's

going to tell you the truth chemistry is

going to tell you the truth a microscope

is going to tell you the truth you just

have to be able to see it and the other

one are free markets when you get enough

people together voting in their own

self-interest with money and anonymized

uh they have no desire to tell you the

trth to tell you a falsehood just to

make you feel better so nature and free

markets are the gold standards and

anything social whether it's another

scientist whether it's a journal whether

it's a group of people whether it's

someone patting you on the back whether

it's a restaurant reviewer they're all

going to tell you lies to make you feel

better for a good reason it's fine so

you have to expose yourself to that

strong feedback by the market and you

have to keep a very open mind so one of

the you have to be willing to change

your mind very very quickly as Mark

andri and famously said you know strong

opinions loosely held so you do want to

have strong opinions so you can make

progress but you have to be willing to

reverse them you should enjoy the

process of reversing them you should get

used to the saying the phrase I was

wrong in public because that's how

you're going to get over that fear of it

and in fact one of the problems with

speaking in public is you make a

proclamation and then two years later

someone comes back and says hey Nal I

thought you said AI is never going to

work it's like that's not what I said

it's taken out of context but you know

what you just got to ignore those haters

but you have to be willing to correct

yourself all the time otherwise you'll

never find your way out of the maze yeah

sort of that iterative process of

updating your beliefs constantly which I

find uh especially in biotech is so hard

right because you have this very long

time Horizon with clinical trials having

to take 10 years and you don't have any

customers during that time right so

you're basically building a research

company and then you have to compete

with like the big farmers on

distribution when you're done which is

pretty hard yeah that that's actually

the hardest thing that the time frames

in biotech are so long you get very

little pieces of data that are anecdotal

uh I'm hoping that a couple of things

are going to change that uh AI will help

a little bit I don't think it's like the

big breakthrough there uh but other

things that will help are just uh we

have better tools now for people to

experiment uh we have the ability to

experiment on smaller populations and

travel outside um distribution is

actually quite different now because you

have the internet right so you notice

all these free speeches protected by the

American Conti tion until you get to

Securities and to medical stuff and then

all of a free moment sudden Free Speech

goes out the window I think that's wrong

by the way I think you should be able to

advertise drugs freely even if they're

wrong and people should able to error

correct you uh and there would be

private rating agencies that would

spring up and trusted sources just like

happened in every other domain the same

way you should be able to advertise

Securities and I helped get the law

changed on that to allow General

solicitation back in 2012 out of

self-interest and self- protection um

but you can now advertise more purely

insecurities but you still have to be a

so-called accredit investor to invest in

private companies which is nonsense um

and the same thing uh there's

restrictions on freedom of speech in in

drugs and that's a huge problem it means

for super basic things like contact

lenses and uh and very basic uh drugs

like things like needles you sometimes

have to go through a doctor for no

reason it's like giant protection racket

uh and it violates the Constitution and

we should all be angry about that

because it's literally taking life out

of our year it's taking years out of our

life uh so I think distribution will be

helped by the internet it won't be

helped completely because countries have

restrictions on it to protect the

medical profession and I think part of

this is I love doctors but we need to

knock them off their pedestal they're

not priests they don't get to speak for

everybody they don't get to be

Gatekeepers for everybody and what does

a doctor mean anyway how many tens of

millions of doctors are there out now

are they all brilliant in a higher class

than us no this is just a new priesthood

so we should be able to think for

ourselves now it's not to say that

everyone should run out and try every

drug you should absolutely give them

advice and you should have uh

institutions but there should not be

this one magical institution called

doctors uh and then everybody else it's

just two artificial it's like the

Chinese Communist party and then all the

other Chinese it's not very different

hard agree on so many of the things you

said I'm curious about one thing so you

mentioned that you were successfully

changing a law right so that was an

instance of voice you were able to

reform something versus what we're doing

here is kind of uh more an exit model

where we do things more from uh from

first principles so what's the case for

voice when can it work how can it work

and are we at a moment where we should

um invest more in voice if that's even

possible it's too hard just

exit it's easier to exit show them it

works and the beauty of life extension

and vitality is they're all going to

want say oh my God you look really good

how did you do

that so as biy said it's easier to um

you know build a new FDA or new city

rather than the reform Center he's right

you know Mark Twain had a famous saying

where he he said there is nothing so

damaging to one's sense of self-being as

watching a friend get rich and I think

that pulls people for example into

crypto uh but there's also nothing so

damaging to one sense of self-being as

watching a friend get fit right and then

you're like wait a minute I I better go

work out too what what are you doing

exactly again what's your diet what's

your workout then they become interested

so our goal here should become to be it

should be to become rich and fit show

the you can never be too rich or too

thin or too clean those are my

three I know there's a hygiene

hypothesis good it could be the next

Ralia slow become rich and

fit anyway so I'd like to dig a bit

deeper into AI again and there are

several Concepts that you discussed with

David de and I found that discussion

really fascinating so one of which was

Intelligence itself Consciousness

meaning

creativity so um what thoughts about the

conversation are most fresh in your mind

or which of these four would you to do

do is a very powerful thinker for those

of you who haven't encountered him I

highly recommend reading the beginning

of infinity and the fabric of reality um

in my mind he's the smartest human alive

that I know of and he has a very

coherent theory of the world that

centers around um understanding the four

deepest theories that we have that are

rock solid and that is epistemology and

by epistemology he means Carl Popper's

epistemology is to how creativity and

knowledge creation comes about uh and uh

Evolution Darwin's theory of evolution

updated by Dawkins and the selfish genen

uh he talks about uh quantum physics uh

he subscribes to the Multiverse Theory

which I think is a lot going for it even

though it's not as popular as the

Observer collapse Theory and then uh

Quantum the theory of quantum

computation and he combines these to

come up with great definitions of

knowledge and creativity and truth and

why the principle of optimism arises out

of those and I highly recommend these

books to everybody and these are not

your normal book so if you flip through

them and you're like 2 weeks later I'm

done you didn't read it it's like a

textbook it's like a course it should

take you at least a year to get through

each one I hate to say it but you know

do what you can but it will definitely

make you smarter because good ideas

solid epistemology the foundation for

discovering or for determining what is

true from what is false will actually

make you smarter so I consider them to

have upgraded my thinking uh and there's

a lot of counterintuitive stuff in there

but once you have a solid explanatory

framework then you no longer have to

memorize things you don't have to say

well okay so and so told me this and

therefore that is true no you can always

rederive it from first principles uh so

I've done a couple of podcasts with him

but those are just teasers um there's a

guy named Brett Hall who is uh an

incredibly good uh physics lecturer and

teacher and he is B basically devoted

his life to understanding and spreading

the philosophy of David Deutsch uh and

again these are not things you take on

belief or on faith these are absolute uh

chains of deductive logic and reason and

creativity that you can rederive for

yourselves and understand at a core

level um it's almost too much to ask

where to start in that but I think the

core of it is epistemology epistemology

is a really fancy word for the theory of

knowledge it's how do I know something

is true that's the core of it how do I

know something is true and a lot of

people believe it's through induction

induction is just one two 3 4 sun rises

today sun rises tomorrow sun rise day

after therefore the Sun is going to rise

every day not true the sun is not going

to rise every day there's a day where

the sun won't rise turkey gets fed by

the farmer what day one day two day

three turkey's getting fed by day 300

turkey believes farmer is benevolent

Godlike creature who comes and feeds

turkey every day Thanksgiving shows up

turkey gets neck cut off induction is

not a v value philosophy deduction which

is okay I see something and therefore I

uh can extrapolate the next thing and

the next thing and next thing that's how

we create knowledge no that's not true

either uh because d deduction relies on

certain axioms where did those axioms

come from talk to any mathematician they

can unfold all kinds of things out of

deduction is that enough no it doesn't

answer the question of creativity so

these are examples of things in

epistemology another thing is can humans

understand everything can we a lot of

people would say no that's actually

false everything that can be understood

can be understood by a human why we're

Universal explainers why we're Universal

computers we're touring machines the

laws of physics run inside touring

machines the you the the universe itself

is a touring machine anything that can

be simulated or that can be done in the

real world that is done in the universe

can be simulated in our brains with

arbitrary Fidelity and therefore

anything that can be explained can be

explained by us we are capable of

maximal knowledge there is no AGI

there's no super intelligence there is

no alien that is possible even in theory

that could understand something that we

just could not understand that is a

deeply optimistic output and I'm not

making a claim this is science this is

physics If you deny this you're denying

physics is all right it's reason it's

reason but reason is way more powerful

than most people think uh it's actually

Beyond reason because reason is purely

deductive it's creative so it's one

different level uh but I highly

encourage you read deut to figure things

like these out I mean it is a

GameChanger another simple one is

spaceship earth we're on this fragile

Planet we're running out of resources

are we what's a resource is uranium a

resource it wasn't until 100 years ago

is oil a resource it wasn't until 200

years ago is coal a resource it wasn't

until 500 years ago is w a resource it

wasn't until humans came along and

started fires so even the definition of

what a resource is changes so these are

the kinds of things that is really worth

understanding do to figure out it will

rewire your brain in a good way yeah I'm

a huge philosophy and epistemology nerd

one thing at specifically on that thesis

that everything that can be um sort of

that can be understood everything can be

understood just from principles of

physics I was wondering how that fits

with the other Minds

problem oh like that there are other

Minds out there yeah I mean you can't

really understand what's going on in

someone else's mind or feel what they

feel right that's just an abstraction

and Universal about them not like the

thing itself at the end of the day if

you're talking about Rock Solid Bedrock

truth there's only one which is that

awar awareness exists it's that there is

there's an awareness out there right now

and it's not even I am aware because you

can't actually pinpoint a specific self

in you if you pay enough attention right

that's kind of the whole theory behind

meditation Enlightenment you go looking

for yourself and there's nobody there

but there is an awareness right and so

that is your rock solid Bedrock truth

awareness exists somehow there is this

miracle of existence that is not

explained to date and it could be

explainable there there are multiple

ways in which it could be explainable

but we don't have an explanation for it

today everything else is science and

science starts with a conjecture of what

works and what's real and what's not and

it is a conjecture and it's never

Bedrock Rock Solid truth it is always

subject to being overturned but you have

your best explanation right now and how

do you have your best explanation right

now you compare to your next best

explanation and then you see which one

does a better job of mapping to the real

world which one actually solves the

problems you set out to solve and that's

why you have these crucial experiments

that split between two theories like the

famous one where Edington track

Starlight and determined that Newtonian

theory was was inferior to relativity

when talking when U mapping uh

gravitation and light and so on so uh

you know you you don't know anything is

true completely forever but you still

live your life based on all kinds of

explanations that you've established to

be the best explanations you have right

now and you need those to navigate the

world but they are always subject to

update yeah and one point in the

conversation you talked about sorry you

asked about theory of mind which is how

do I know other people have it's our

best explanation right now there is an

awareness I have some thoughts running

through that awareness I map that into a

private sense of self and I consider

that to be my Consciousness and it

stands to reason that other people are

like me too because they seem to behave

the same way ultimately this is there's

a there's a great problem in philosophy

called the philosophical zombie problem

it's kind of a fun one right the

philosophical zombie problem is

basically why do you need Consciousness

why aren't we all just automatons and

zombies reacting to the environment

right so the philosophical zombie

because you could just have the exact

same reactions but there'd be nobody

inside it's like a robot right everybody

would just be robot so why do you need

Consciousness and uh so the

philosophical zombie problem ask why

Consciousness and there are various

explanations you know one of them is

just like Consciousness is what being a

reacting robot feels like it needs some

internal model some internal State

machine and that's just what it feels

like but you know you could argue the

other side which is why zombie why does

why why are they even people why is it

all just in my head you know that's the

sism answer um deuts actually has a

really good reputation of sism uh one of

the things I love about do and one of

the reasons that he's so dense it's hard

to read is that he will throw away in

one line destroy entire philosophies and

just move on and if you're skimming it

like a normal book you won't even notice

but if you're reading it very very

carefully you will notice that he he

actually destroys solipsism on the basis

of uh aam's Razer uh which is a

a su which itself is an aam R salmanov

induction but uh he basically says uh oh

well solipsism even if you're a

solipsist and if you think you're the

only one that exists and everybody else

is just a figment of your imagination

they're still autonomous creatures they

still don't react the way you want them

to react you can't control the world so

you still have to build a theory of how

and why they operate and it still

requires all the explanations you have

in science and biology and physics so if

you have to do all of that but you have

added this extra feature that it's all

in your head well that violates aam's

Razer you've just basically added an

expl extra explanation that doesn't

actually explain anything you've add an

extra assumption that doesn't explain

anything so the more parsimonious

explanation is that these are actually

really independent entities so reality

is uh a better more parsimonious

explanation than belief because the

belief still requires

reality

yeah that's powerful um by the way after

the the break we also have U my favorite

philosopher Michael humer speaking on a

similar topic and he also had a

reputation of solipsism along similar

lines um here's about what we can say um

also what you've learned from David

Deutch or I think AI confronts us with

that question many ways what is

intelligence right and can AI perfectly

model it in the same way that humans do

in other ways and what does it mean to

be intelligent yeah the word

intelligence is really overloaded you

know kind of like love or or uh you know

uh there's a lot of words in our

language that are overloaded and so

people very often when they're talking

about them we just talking past each

other uh rather than intelligence I

would say creativity I think that is the

more interesting things to focus on

because that is what makes humans unique

you can Define intelligence as a pathf

finding function and something will find

a path right um so it's one of those

things that's hard to talk about but I

think creativity is a more interesting

thing and if you look at systems that

generate

knowledge um they do so through

creativity so the question is does AI

really generate new knowledge I don't

think so I think it helps uh it it

recombines things and Steve Jobs

famously said creativity is just

combining things together and I think he

was wrong on that I think he was not I

don't want to call him wrong because

then people call me wrong because of

throwaway statements but he would that

is that is out of context and it's too

narrow uh creativity is not just

combining things together creativity is

creating new knowledge it is not

Randomness it is not repeating patterns

it is a new thing that is sort of a

uh it it is a new sequence in the

universe that expresses some truth and

so how do you derive these sequences how

do you discover these new sequences how

do you create these new sequences and to

our knowledge we only know of two

systems that can do that and the first

is uh Evolution and evolution does that

through random mutations which then get

selected for in the environment over

long periods of time uh and the other is

humans uh not even other animals because

their creativity is encoded in their DNA

it comes from Evolution it is actually

very hard to teach an animal nutrix

extremely hard and most of the cases

where we've taught gorillas this and

that are actually apocryphal if you dig

into them they're not real um whereas a

human baby uh can see someone trying to

perform an action figure out what action

they're trying to perform and then

creatively come up with other solutions

to that action and so human creativity

is far faster than uh evolutionary

creativity because it can connect

anything to anything it can jump huge

spaces it can cut through the search

space of possibilities very very fast so

uh genetic creativity and evolution is

limited in two ways one is it's random

and then it has to be selected for and

that's painfully slow it requires a lot

of generations but it got us here uh and

the second is it has to pass through

useful points for a creature that has no

wings to evolve into a creature that has

wings every generation in between has to

derive benefit or at least cannot derive

harm from that mutation whereas a human

creativity can literally jump from art

to science and nothing needs to be in

between so that is part of the reason

why we're going through such a

revolution in Innovation because human

creativity has finally been Unleashed

and no I do not think computers are

there right now uh nor do I think we

have a good explanation for how they

will get there is it possible absolutely

the existence proof is right here every

human we already know how to create ai

go have sex with somebody and make a

child right that's how you'll get AGI

you can create AGI all day long you can

create Universal explainers all day long

uh in fact some people argue with too

many of them right we too many agis

already wandering the planet but when we

figure out how to create AGI we will

have a good explanation of how it's

created we'll be able to do that in a

repeatable way and in a sense those will

be people those will be actual thinking

things you can't have this this

lobotomized idiotic AGI that serves you

like a slave and will go wrong and make

paper clips uh because creativity is

universal these are Universal explainers

everything connects to everything you

can't Isaac azimoff used to play with

this in the three laws of robotics where

he would try to like create uh robots

that couldn't harm humans and had to do

good for the human race and you know had

low self-preservation instincts and all

of his short stories in the robotic

series were all about the loopholes that

arise from this you cannot prevent an

AGI or a universe explainer from

thinking any thought there's because

everything connects to everything

there's always a way around um I don't

know if I answer your question I if

tangent totally going Direction I wanted

to I mean as an example When I Was

preparing for this interview I was

talking to Jet GPT and the questions I

gave me were just really generic and

boring and then I was jet GPT is an

amazing natural language search engine

it is an incredible translator from

computer languages to human languages or

being human languages uh the chat GPT

falls apart in two places where you can

tell it's not intelligent one is go in

any domain or three one is go to any

domain where you have a lot of specific

knowledge and you will see that it's

just giving you the generic consistent

wrong boring answer second is uh go ask

it to summarize something and you will

watch it fall apart as well because it's

very very bad at summarization it's very

good extrapolation it can do the

midwidth thing of adding more words to

sound intelligent but when you actually

try to get it to distill down to the

core of the things which is a sign of

intelligence which is distilling things

into explanatory theories and reason uh

it can't do it uh and then lastly go

into anything where it's training set is

bad uh there was a great example that

went up on Twitter recently or or the

artist formerly known as Twitter um

where it basically had uh you know that

famous Knights problem where there's

like two knights and one is telling the

truth and one is telling a lie and you

have to ask some questions to figure out

which one is which well someone went on

there and said there are two knights

they're both telling the truth how do

you find out which one is telling the

truth and it went through all this

convoluted logic of trying to detect a

liar because all of its examples and IT

training set and there zillions of them

are always involveed a liar so it can't

even comprehend that actually they're

both telling the truth I can just ask

either one and they're both telling the

truth and I'm done right it's a tarology

but because that's not in the training

set it shows you that it cannot

reason yeah and then I looked at your

interview with David Doge and they had

so much context just because of my

interest in epistemology so was very

quickly parsing through and seeing like

nuggets that are really interesting

discuss in this context and also I was

surprised that something that I thought

was kind of actually the basis for

computing which is like Logics right

Logics it can pick up on that which is

what you were just describing yeah

they're augmenting it by putting in some

basic rules of mathematics and logic

like coding in wolf from alpha yeah it's

kind of like how if you go to Google

Google is not just a straight search

engine anymore they've got that one box

they're like oh you're searching for

flights oh you're looking inside Google

swar or you're looking inside Google

Images so they can start it can start

looking more intelligent by augmenting

retrieval through other things and I

think the same way chat GPT through its

apis will augment other things I think

it's an incredible breakthrough having

natural language Computing is an

incredible breakthrough having Universal

translation is an incredible

breakthrough there's no reason to take

away from that but at the same time

there are certain people who have the

goal of inventing AGI so they need to

raise a lot of money so they're going to

project something out onto it that I

think is not valid yet although we can

absolutely figure it out um there also

breakthroughs to be made by putting it

inside a robotic body and getting

feedback from The Real World and they

can improve a lot faster and have a much

larger data set uh and then there's some

people who are just always scared and

they want to make a name for themselves

by pointing out all the fears and

Terrors and how we can end the world but

Banning the free exercise of mathematics

is not it we've banned almost everything

which is why we have to come to prospera

to do stuff in biology if we ban

mathematics like that's it that's the

end then you got to leave that Society

Al together the other thing I wanted to

double pick on that you mentioned before

what humans are capable of um I would

describe it as social Evolution or

culture right so we're able to

coordinate millions of intelligences

through like stories and narratives

right so that's something that when you

look back at the history of humanity you

in strugg at all right absolutely we

have layers and layers to our

intelligence networks we have

institutions we have countries we have

cultures we have religions we have all

different ways of conveying knowledge

combining knowledge recombining

knowledge and then executing on it um no

man no woman is an island you know if

you're out in the desert or The Jungle

by yourself I don't care how smart and

capable you are after a certain amount

of time you die that's just that simple

you know Robinson cruso aside

notwithstanding so uh we are Cooperators

uh but we're not blind Cooperators we're

not genetic Cooperators like uh ants and

bees we can actually cooperate across

genetic boundaries people who didn't

grow up as part of the same family can

cooperate people that aren't the same

race or culture can cooperate uh and

that's why we dominate this world uh

because a 100,000 humans can meet

together because they're all Christian

or because they're all scientists or

because they all want to live forever

and be and have Vitality um where uh you

know ants can't

even uh gang up across hives two ant

hives encounter each other they're

enemies they're different yeah yeah um

do you want to take audience questions

sure I have one more question though um

before let's do it and you're uh you

what did you learn from your brother

Kamal because I read in your book that

he's actually the philosopher in the

family that I'm just an amateur so

considering how great of a philosopher

you are what must be enormous I think

everybody's a philosopher right if you

live long enough you think about things

you're a philosopher I'm just a little

more articulate about it that's that's

all it is right I don't I don't think

I've thrown out any philosophical

thoughts that people haven't already had

it's a resonance right they kind of kind

of uh hear it it's uh what was it I

think it was God I'm going to get the

name wrong I want to say it was

Chesterton but somebody said that oh no

no no it was Emerson Emerson Ralph Waldo

Emerson uh great writer preacher um so

he uh he says something like you know in

every great thought we see our own words

coming back in us with a certain

alienated Majesty right so it's just

repeating back something we already knew

but doing it in a way that resonates

with us so I think that's uh that's

really the the skill set we're talking

about here um my my brother is an

amazing writer he's written some great

books you know a lot of people come up

to me and they're like oh thank you your

book saved my life I'm like oh you're

thinking of him you know he because he

wrote that book love yourself like your

life depends on it and I think it's a

it's a book about having an incredibly

strong core in self-esteem so you're not

dependent on people from the outside

that all of your core psychological

needs come from the inside uh and he is

a great writer he actually was the one

who first got into uh you know Hemingway

and got me into Hemingway even though

you know so a lot of my piffy writing

comes from him if you read his books

you'll notice he shaves off every single

word and he can do it at a book level I

can't I just do it at a tweet level cuz

I like that 140 character constraint

that's where I like to compete um

because I read a lot of poetry and I was

a failed poet uh rhyming is hard uh

metric verse is hard rhythm is hard but

I found word selection to be easy uh and

so that's where Twitter came in and gave

me an advantage then they went to 280

and now it's now everyone's putting

2hour videos with uh you know with Putin

on Twitter

I'd love to hear about um essentialized

science these are new ways to uh fund

science to get the science done to

publish the science and publicize it and

more generally to coordinate a

decentralized community uh especially in

a city like this science has always been

science has always been decentralized

it's just that then we created this

industrialized thing that we call

science just like we created

industrialized schooling uh one size

fits all right we want to Stamp Out lots

of phds but that doesn't create more

creativity it doesn't actually create

more scientists it creates more phds I

would draw a distinction between phds

and scientists I don't think you need to

have a PhD to be a scientist okay U if

you are naturally curious and you're

rigorous and you discover new things

you're a scientist like one of my

Twitter quips was the only true test of

intelligence is if you get what you want

out of life and that triggers a lot of

people but how else do you know how else

do you know if you're smart if you're

not getting what you want lot out of

life how smart are you really okay you

might have had bad luck once upon a time

but consistently every time I doubt it

and there's two parts to that one is

actually testing yourself against the

world to see if you get what you want

the other is wanting the right things in

the first place you know I wish I was 20

years old and had wings not going to

happen so you got to wish for the right

things too so I think decentralized

science science has always been

decentralized everyone can be a

scientist if they're rigorous uh and if

they're curious uh now in terms of

funding it yes you need funding to

science do science no you don't need

funding to do science okay if you need

to do research fundamental research in

patient populations you do need some

money there's a lot of Rich old people

out there who are dying I don't know how

old Michael Bloomberg is he's got a lot

of money he's almost dead I'm sure if

you went to him with the right pitch he

would cough up some money but you'd have

to extend his lifespan you know give him

some evidence give him give him solid

thinking give him solid proof uh

everyone's uh discount rate the interest

rate on their money at their deathbed is

infinite the closer you get to death you

know the greater the value of every

additional minute goes up go to Every

rich person in the world who's dying

offer them another minute of life and

see how much money they cough up the

funding is out there you just have to

have the rigorous thinking and the right

therapies um in terms of coordination

and Publishing internet so easy already

done I think there are entire Fields uh

like for example in Ai and ml where

people are just publishing openly

they're not publishing in these closed

journals and closed uh systems anymore

those Gatekeepers are going away so I

think science is already decentralized

it's just like you know Paul Graham said

it was a Paul Graham or Alan K uh the

future is here it's just not evenly

distributed so we're already in

decentralized

science what I want out of life is to

ask followup questions sorry should we

give other people more time but we come

back what do you think okay all right

thank

you um uh Ino question did you hear

about uh D defensive accelerationism yet

D defense accelerationism what does that

mean um Vin wrote an answer

to manifest but if you didn't read it

okay t tldr i i skim I skimmed it I'll

have some hot take on it which is not

accurate but overall I think we should

just go for the accelerationism but I'm

not interested argu I'm not that

interested in arguments against because

yeah yeah sorry that I want to ask yeah

uh you said so many beautiful things

about the enlightenment about uh one's

own uh responsibility of be truth

seeking and so on and not tapping into

the demon of group think or of a

socialized mind to go about it uh and

that you believe that it's possible for

every uh unique mind to go that route

and I would agree uh I would however

fear that the enlightenment as the

powers are spread now and as the

realities light uh lay on earth now

might not scale fast enough in time and

if we just accelerate artificial

intelligence most people will just

Outsource even their own sense making

and become NPCs how can we make that

possible uh that we can go the

acceleration route but keep human agency

and not just enable anybody to go for

their lowest hanging feedback loops and

lowest hanging Ambitions but probably

for the highest hanging Ambitions I

think it's natural I'm not afraid of it

because I I think firstly humans today

have more AG agcy than they had 5050

years ago right women are far more free

uh you can travel to prospera uh your

cell phone works here your money works

here that's more freedom you have more

agency than you've ever had and it's and

even the people you're calling NPCs

which I don't think is quite accurate

they have way more agency than they've

ever had so there's kind of this this

mindset that we often have where uh it's

kind of the tyranny of low expectations

we look down on other people and we're

just like well there are NPCs but I'm a

PC I'm not so sure I think there are PCS

in their own life and if you were to

swap places with them you would feel

very much like a PC so they are doing

the best they can with what they have

now they're busy you know maybe they're

cleaning toilets maybe they're trying to

figure out how to make ends meet maybe

they're trying to figure out how to get

into school uh maybe their brain doesn't

work as fast but they're still capable

of having great ideas because they're

Universal explainers so I think if you

free them up if you give them more time

if you automate more the things around

them they can be more creative now now

yes maybe they'll go down the rabbit

hole of uh you know smoking too much

dope and watching a lot of Netflix but

you know what I watched a lot of TV too

I played a lot of video games as a kid

turned out okay you got to let people

get through their humps all right maybe

they're eating too much and they're

getting fat great jab him with a zic you

know bring them back we're we're finding

solutions to these things so I think you

do have to give people more agency I

don't think the way I don't think

there's no way back by the way there's

no turning around what are you going to

do you can't stop other people from

moving forward so the only way out is

through

I'm not I'm not I don't mean to attack

you but we we should pass it to the next

person also sorry this sorry go ahead go

ahead you have something more to say

just say it with NPCs I rather meant

that uh people will go the easy route

because it's pre-programmed in our minds

to always go the energy saving route but

that's okay we're we're we're energy

minimizing systems and what's wrong with

that expending less energy to get to the

same outcome that's how the whole

universe works principle of lease action

so the market outcome according to you

would be every single individual would

have as their uh as their goto rout uh

total uh well self actualization and

curiosity and it's not uh like the

centralized forces on earth like the

media did to politics already uh would

use it and just uh lock us in a state

where we can't get out of I think it's

already getting better you have social

media which is way more free than

centralized media was than mass media

was now everybody's talking as opposed

to just a few people are talking so uh

yeah I don't I don't I don't I don't see

the risk you're talking about and I

don't see the alternative what do you do

top down control everybody what you're

allowed to say and what you're allowed

to think and who you got to follow

that's you're building the systems that

are exactly the ones that you fear if

you advocate for that promote cognitive

sovereignty and intellectual autonomy

absolutely we promote cognitive

sovereignty and intellectual autonomy

absolutely 100% go read the beginning of

infinity that's what it's all

about talking about everybody talking um

I have a question about air chat you're

very delivered with your time you want

to live forever which is why you're here

but when you're not here you're building

air chat what's your vision with it you

describe it as a voice first messenger

is it more WhatsApp more Twitter and

then ultimately how do you prevent it

from falling prey to centralized control

where everybody can't talk yeah so uh

I'm working on a new social network uh I

don't think social networks today are

social they don't actually have

conversation they're broadcast networks

1% of people get and spew their thoughts

on Twitter that's broadcasting 1% of

people get up and put up their private

photos on Instagram you know that's

broadcasting 1% of people get up and

dance on Tik Tok that's broadcasting

it's not actually social you can't

actually have meaningful conversations

you can't actually connect as humans so

air chat is an attempt to create

conversations and we're just early on it

we're iterating we're rebuilding it

we're rebuilding it we're rebuilding it

so the first goal there is just I get

bored I want to talk to smart people I

want to have the ability to pull out my

phone no matter matter where I'm in the

world and talk to smart people second I

want to promote free speech so we need a

network that is not controlled by people

who believe in authoritarian beliefs

luckily Elon came on came along and

bought Twitter he renamed it X which I

think was a massive destruction of brand

value but uh he nevertheless did free it

up so people can now much more freely

say what they think is it uh completely

decentralized and Unstoppable no we have

a bunch of others for that we have blue

sky we have Noster we have farcaster

these are good backup Solutions the

problem is very very hard to innovate on

a new media format and a new

conversation format and make it

decentralized at the same time anyone

who's not been in crypto and then added

a token to their offering knows exactly

what I'm talking about then you get

bogged down and token hell so

decentralization is something you solve

after you figure out how to make the

thing work so right now we're just

trying to figure out how to make the

thing work I don't think it's quite

ready for prime time I think we're going

to we're rebuilding it there's going to

be a relaunch hopefully it'll work this

time honestly it's just fun it's