PCBL Ltd. to See 5x Profit Growth in 5 Years, Says Sanjiv Goenka in Exclusive Interview | CNBC TV18

Summary

In a CNBC TV18 special, Mr. Sanjiv Goenka discusses the strategic expansion and investment plans across his group's businesses, with a focus on chemicals and carbon black sectors. He reveals a projected growth to 2 lakh crores in market cap over 30 months and outlines aggressive capex plans of 35,000 crores in 12-18 months, up to 50,000 crores in 3 years. The conversation spans topics from M&A strategies, green energy investments, to the future of IT and FMCG sectors within the group, emphasizing a debt-averse approach and an aspirational outlook.

Takeaways

• 📈 The company is entering a significant investment phase across businesses, focusing on research, capacity, and growth after a period of consolidation and reinvention.
• 💰 The group plans to spend about $35,000 crore over the next 12 to 18 months and approximately $50,000 crore over the next 3 years on capex.
• 🚀 The company has an ambitious growth target of reaching a market cap of 2 lakh crores within the next 30 months, from a current market cap of nearly $7 billion.
• 🌐 The largest expansion is expected in the chemicals and carbon black sector, with an emphasis on specialty blacks for higher margins.
• 📊 PCBL's financials show a rise from 3,244 crores in FI20 to 6,420 crores in FI24, with a margin expansion from 14% to 16%, and a projection for further growth to 17-18%.
• 💹 The company aims for a fivefold increase in profits over the next five years, from a base of 491 crores, targeting between 2400 and 2500 crores.
• 🛒 The acquisition of Aquafarm for 3,800 crores is complete, and the company is considering a combination of debt, internal accruals, and possibly equities for funding future acquisitions.
• 🌿 The company is venturing into green energy with plans to set up 3 GW of hybrid solar and wind projects over the next 2 years, with a long-term goal of 10 GW.
• 🏢 The IT business, First Source, is targeting a profit growth of 2.5 times in the next 3 years with a focus on high-margin businesses and strategic acquisitions.
• 🛒 Spencer's retail business is on track to reach cash break-even by the end of the year, with investments focused on Nature's Basket and a cautious approach to quick commerce expansion.
• 🏆 The sports business, including The Dugout franchise, has been successful, with no plans to monetize the franchise at this point.

Q & A

What is the main focus of the conversation with Mr. Sanjiv Gupta?

The conversation primarily focuses on the business strategies, expansion plans, and financial aspirations of the Adani Group under Mr. Sanjiv Gupta's leadership.

What is the current status of the Adani Group's expansion and investment plans?

The Adani Group is planning to invest significantly across its businesses, with a focus on research, capacity, and growth. They are moving from a period of consolidation to one of high growth, particularly in the chemicals and carbon black sector.

What is the projected capex for the Adani Group over the next 12 to 18 months?

The Adani Group plans to spend about $35,000 crore over the next 12 to 18 months and approximately 50,000 crores over the next 3 years.

What are the growth aspirations of the Adani Group in terms of market cap?

The Adani Group has a current market cap of almost $7 billion and aims to reach a target of 2 lakh crores over the next 30 months.

How does Mr. Gupta view the future of carbon black production at PCBL?

Mr. Gupta sees significant growth in both rubber blacks and specialty blacks, with the latter offering higher margins. He expects the profit to grow five times over the next five years.

What are the specific expansion plans for PCBL in the chemical sector?

PCBC plans to expand in chemicals through the acquisition of Aquafarm, increasing capacity in phosphonates, integrating into yellow phosphorus, and expanding in oil and gas chemicals. They also plan to enter the bio-degradable product market and cathode chemistry for EV batteries.

What is the expected change in the mix of specialty and rubber blacks for PCBL?

The specialty blacks are expected to contribute 60% of the value, with rubber blacks contributing the remaining 40%, although rubber blacks will have higher volume contributions.

How does Mr. Gupta approach debt in relation to the expansion plans?

Mr. Gupta is averse to debt and prefers to finance expansions through a combination of internal accruals, possibly some short-term debt, and equity at some stage. He maintains a debt-to-equity ratio of no more than 1.5:1.

What is the current status of the acquisition of Aquafarm by PCBL?

The acquisition of Aquafarm for 3,800 crore rupees is complete, and PCBL is looking at further M&A opportunities, though specifics are not disclosed.

What are the growth expectations for First Source in the IT sector?

First Source is expected to grow profits by 2.5 times in the next 3 years, focusing on high-margin businesses, expanding wallet share with existing customers, and investing in technology and analytics.

What is the plan for Cesc in terms of renewable energy and green initiatives?

Cesc plans to set up 3 GW of renewable energy over the next 2 years, with a long-term goal of reaching 10 GW. They are also looking into hydrogen electrolyzers and modular nuclear plants as part of their green energy strategy.

Outlines

00:00

📈 Business Expansion and Investment Insights

In this segment, Mr. Sanjie Gua discusses the strategic direction of his company, emphasizing a significant investment phase across businesses, particularly in research, capacities, and growth. He highlights the past period of consolidation and reinvention, and now a focus on high growth. The company aims for substantial expansion, especially in chemicals and carbon black sectors, with a group-level capex of $35,000 crore over the next 12 to 18 months and $50,000 crore over three years. The growth aspiration is set high, with a market cap target of 2 lakh crores within 30 months. The conversation also delves into the specifics of PCBL's growth and expansion plans, including a shift towards higher-margin speciality blacks and an ambitious fivefold growth in profits over the next five years.

05:01

💼 Speciality Portfolio and M&A Strategy

This paragraph delves into the company's focus on enhancing its speciality portfolio, with an expected 60% value contribution from speciality products and 40% from rubber blacks. The acquisition of Aquafarm for 3,800 crores is discussed, along with the company's aversion to debt and preference for internal accruals and possibly equity for funding future M&A activities. While specific future M&A targets are not disclosed, the ongoing dialogues indicate a proactive approach to growth through acquisitions. The company also outlines its capacity expansion plans, aiming to double its capacity over the next five years through a mix of greenfield and brownfield projects.

10:04

🌐 IT and Business Services Growth Aspirations

The conversation shifts to the IT side of the business, with a focus on First Source's new CEO and its growth targets for FI25, projecting a 10-13% growth rate with a margin of 11-12%. The company's strategy includes shifting to high-margin businesses, expanding wallet share with existing customers, and investing in people, quality of services, technology, and analytics. The company is also in the process of completing an acquisition in America and aims to grow profits by 2.5 times in the next three years. The discussion touches on the limitless aspirations inspired by leaders like Prime Minister Modi and Mukesh Ambani, emphasizing the importance of execution and low-cost financing.

15:07

🌿 Green Energy and Utility Sector Expansion

This segment covers the company's ventures into the green energy sector, with plans to set up 3 GW of hybrid solar and wind energy over the next two years, expanding to 10 GW in total. The company is also exploring hydrogen electrolyzers and modular nuclear plants, inspired by recent government announcements. In the utility sector, Cesc's outlook is discussed, including the establishment of renewable energy projects within its distribution networks and the potential for tariff rationalization and privatization of discoms. The company expects to invest significantly in renewable energy, aiming for a 10 GW capacity addition over six years.

20:08

🍿 FMCG Business and Retail Growth Plans

The final paragraph discusses the company's FMCG business, with a focus on the snacking segment, which is showing promising results with a current annual run rate of 600 crores. The company anticipates reaching a break-even point within the next two years, with continued investments in brand building and product development. The conversation also touches on the retail business, particularly Spencers, with a goal to achieve cash break-even by the end of the year. The company is cautious about expanding too rapidly in the quick commerce space, balancing growth with cash flow requirements. Lastly, the discussion includes the company's successful venture into sports, with no plans to monetize their franchise at this time.

Keywords

💡Consolidation

Consolidation in a business context refers to the process of combining different aspects of a company to create a more unified and efficient structure. In the video, the term is used to describe a period where the company focused on integrating and streamlining its operations, which is a precursor to the expansion phase they are now entering.

💡Capex

Capex stands for capital expenditure, which are funds used by a company to acquire, upgrade, and maintain physical assets. The script mentions a significant appetite for further capex, indicating the company's intention to invest in long-term assets to support growth and expansion plans.

💡Expansion

Expansion in a business setting is the act of growing a company's operations, often through increased production capacity, new markets, or product lines. The video discusses the company's plans for substantial expansion, particularly in the chemicals and carbon black sectors, as part of their growth strategy.

💡Chemicals Sector

The chemicals sector refers to the industry involved in the production of chemicals, including basic chemicals, specialty chemicals, and consumer goods. In the script, the company's expansion plans are heavily focused on this sector, with an emphasis on both existing and new chemical products.

💡Carbon Black

Carbon black is a material produced through the incomplete combustion of heavy petroleum products, used extensively in the manufacture of rubber products and inks. The script highlights the company's intention to significantly expand its operations in this area.

💡Capex Forecast

A capex forecast is a financial projection of the capital expenditures a company plans to make in the future. The script provides specific figures for the company's planned capex over the next 12 to 18 months and over a three-year period, indicating a substantial investment in growth.

💡Growth Aspiration

Growth aspiration refers to the ambitions a company has for increasing its size, market share, or profitability. The video discusses the company's aspirations to significantly increase its market capitalization over a set period, showcasing its aggressive growth targets.

💡Specialty Blacks

Specialty blacks are high-value forms of carbon black used in specific applications that require unique properties. The script mentions the company's focus on these products due to their higher margins, indicating a strategic move towards more profitable product lines.

💡Acquisition

An acquisition is the purchase of one company or entity by another. The script discusses the company's acquisition of Aquafarm, which is part of their expansion strategy in the chemicals sector, particularly in the area of phosphonates and other chemical products.

💡Debt Aversion

Debt aversion refers to a financial strategy where a company prefers to avoid or minimize the use of debt in its capital structure. The script mentions the company's stance on debt, emphasizing a preference for internal accruals and equity over debt to finance their growth.

💡Green Energy

Green energy is energy produced from renewable resources, such as solar, wind, and hydroelectric power. The script discusses the company's investment in renewable energy projects, indicating a strategic move towards environmentally friendly and sustainable energy production.

💡BFSI

BFSI stands for Banking, Financial Services, and Insurance, which are sectors that the company is targeting for growth. The script mentions the company's aspirations in these sectors, indicating a focus on areas where they see potential for profitable expansion.

💡Modular Nuclear Plants

Modular nuclear plants are a type of nuclear power plant that is designed to be built in modules, allowing for more efficient construction and potentially lower costs. The script mentions the company's interest in this technology, indicating a forward-looking approach to energy production.

💡FMCG

FMCG stands for Fast-Moving Consumer Goods, which are products that are sold quickly and at relatively low cost. The script discusses the company's plans for its FMCG business, including the snacking segment, and their expectations for growth and profitability.

💡Retail

Retail refers to the sale of goods or services directly to consumers for personal use. The script discusses the company's retail business, particularly the performance and expansion plans for Nature's Basket, indicating a focus on strengthening this area of their operations.

💡Quick Commerce

Quick Commerce, also known as instant delivery, is a retail model where goods are delivered to consumers in a very short time frame, often within minutes. The script mentions the company's approach to quick commerce, highlighting a balance between growth and cash flow management.

Highlights

Sanjie Gua discusses significant investments across businesses focusing on research, capacities, and growth after a period of consolidation and reinvention.

The group plans to spend about $35 billion over the next 12 to 18 months and $50 billion over the next 3 years on capex.

Growth aspirations include a target market cap of 2 lakh crores within the next 30 months, from a current market cap of nearly $7 billion.

PCBL, the largest carbon black producer in India, aims to grow significantly in rubber blacks and specialty blacks, with a focus on higher margins.

Plans for PCBL include a fivefold growth in profits over the next five years, from 491 crores to between 2400 and 2500 crores.

Aquafarm acquisition for 3,800 crores is aimed at expanding into phosphonates, yellow phosphorus, oil and gas chemicals, and green kets.

Cathode chemistry for EV batteries is a new venture following the acquisition of Canaltech in Australia.

Debt aversion is emphasized, with a preference for internal accruals and possibly equity, aiming for a debt-equity ratio not exceeding 1.5:1.

Capacity expansion targets for PCBL include doubling over the next five years through Green Field and Brownfield projects.

First Source aims for a profit growth of 2.5 times in the next three years with a focus on high-margin businesses and cost efficiency.

The company is actively pursuing acquisitions to enhance capabilities and enter new geographies like South Africa and Australia.

Cesc plans to invest in renewable energy with a target of setting up 3 GW of hybrid solar and wind projects over the next two years.

Green energy initiatives include hydrogen electrolyzers and potential exploration of modular nuclear plants.

FMCG business, particularly snacking, is showing positive trends with a path to breakeven at 1000 crores in revenue.

Spencers Retail aims to achieve cash breakeven by the end of the year, focusing on Nature's Basket and quick commerce.

The sports venture, including The Dugout, has been successful with a potential increase in franchise value, but no plans for monetization at present.

Transcripts

[Music]

hello and welcome to CNBC TV8 special

conversation I'm Shireen bhan and we're

in conversation with Mr sanjie Gua Mr

Gua it's an absolute pleasure to have

you back on the show it's been a while

since you spoke uh uh so let me start by

getting a sense from you about where

things stand at a group level and more

importantly uh in terms of the appetite

for expansion in terms of the appetite

for further uh capex what does f524 and

fi25 hold so thank you Shireen for

having me yes I must confess it's after

a long while I've actually been absent

from all media but and if I had to come

back this's no one better than CNBC TV8

and Shireen ban can doesn't get better

thank you for that

so yes for us this is

now a period where we're going to be

investing significantly

across our

businesses in terms of research in terms

of capacities in terms of

growth the last few years were a period

of consolidation of reinvention of

application development but now all that

is done practically done so it's now

going to be very high on in terms of

growth so all our businesses will be

expanding expanding

significantly but the biggest expansion

will be in the chemicals and the carbon

black

sector but of course every business is

growing

exponentially before I get specifically

to pcbl because you said that that is

going to be the growth engine in terms

of expansion plans but what would the

group level capex be for instance over

the next 12 to 18 months over the next

12 to 18 months um we will be spending

about $35,000 cror and over the next 3

years about 50,000 crores and what's the

growth aspiration you've now got a

market cap of almost what $7 billion

what's the growth

aspiration uh we touched 70,000 crores

this morning I'm told uh and this is

without taking our unlisted Ventures but

over the next 30 months 2 lakh crores 2

lakh CR is the Target that you're

working with let's now talk about pcbl

in specific it is of course as you

pointed out the Lar producer of carbon

black in the country I'm just taking a

look at your financials uh you know from

3,244 cres in fi20 you've gone up to

6,420 crores in fi 24 there's been a

margin expansion from 14% to about 16%

your profit after tax has gone from 288

cres in fi20 to 491 crores what's the

ambition what's the aspiration both on

growth as well as expansion for pcbl

specifically so pcbl will grow in rubber

blacks but more importantly in

speciality blacks so where your margins

become much higher in rubber blacks you

make x% in specialities you make X Plus

so much and that's the reason for the

14% going to 16 the 16 would actually

probably go up to about 17 18 as we go

along but more

importantly and or as importantly we

will be expanding in chemicals through

our acquisition aquafarm mhm uh so we

will be expanding in phosphonates in

terms of capacity we will be back

integrating into yellow

phosphorus we will expand in the oil and

gas

chemicals uh so we are going to revamp

our manufacturing facility in Texas we

are going to add a manufacturing

facility in addition to our blending

facility in

Riyad and we are going to start this

whole thing on green kets which is bio

degradable product that goes into the

granules that go into the detergents

industry okay and so there are not many

players in the world who do this uh so

we will be one of the two or

three and in addition to this we are

getting into the cathode chemistry for

the EV batteries okay uh we recently

took over a company called canaltech in

Australia mhm which has successfully

tried this on a pilot scale now we we

will take them over and make it

commercial so it's a lot of uh things in

chemicals and rubber blacks and

speciality

blacks and from this level of profit I

would expect to see over the next five

years at least a five times growth a

five times growth from five times growth

from what it was 490 I would expect it

to be at the 490 translating into

between 2400 and

2500 uh and and you know as far as the

mix is concerned because you said the

focus is now going to be on enhancing or

expanding the speciality portfolio as

well how do you see that mix changing

what is the target there as far as the

mix is concerned so I think the

speciality will become

60% and the rubber blacks will be 40 in

terms of value of contribution in terms

of volumes of course rubber blacks will

be higher but they contribute lower so

in terms of value of contribution will

be 604 you talked about the acquisition

of Aqua farm for 3,800 CR rupees uh is

it all done now in terms of so it's it's

it's complete are you looking at more

m&a and any areas in specific that you

would like to look at m&a and will you

fund these via debt or uh you know

internal acrs so it'll be a combination

of debt internal

acrs and maybe equities at some stage uh

so it's got to be a

combination uh but I'm a debt averse

person so I don't believe in debt so

debt at best or worst as the case might

be is very shortterm in my case so even

if I take

debt at a group level we will never

exceed 1.5 is to One debt Equity that is

something that we are very clear about

and that is the guidance to each of the

companies so pcbl as a whole remains at

about 0.7 is one despite everything uh

and it'll go down uh but as we keep

expanding as we keep investing there

will be some long-term debt uh

but everything that will get repaid very

soon by way of internal approvals so

anything on the Anvil anything on the

radar at this point in time in terms of

future m&a for pcbl

specifically you know m&a I think is

becoming a way of life so there are

dialogues happening across at any point

in

time

but one out of 10 actually transpires I

mean actually gets converted into

reality so it's premature to talk about

it but

yes there are dialogues happening so uh

finally before I uh move on to First

Source uh the last question as far as

pcbl is concerned uh what kind of uh

capacity expansion do you believe you're

going to to be able to take on between

now and the next 5 years the Target that

you've set so I think over the next 5

years we certainly see ourselves

doubling

capacity uh between Green Field and

Brownfield uh we see ourselves Greening

a lot

more uh in terms of product and product

mix we see a lot more expansion in the

chemical

space um so we are just setting up a new

Factory in Maharashtra and Mahar for fos

ETS and oil and gas chemicals I just

told you we are going to revamp our

Factory in Texas we going to effectively

set up a new Factory in Riyad so then we

will be setting up this green kets uh

facility so it's a lot of activity

across the board well speaking of

activity let me now move from chemicals

and uh move to talk about what's

happening on the it side with First

Source uh you've got a new Co coming in

in September uh Rani uh you know the

guidance for fi25 a growth of between 10

to 13% and margin of 11 to 12% uh how is

this business shaping up for you again

what's the aspiration now as far as

First Source is concerned since you are

setting fiveyear targets at this point

in time let me ask you what you hope to

do with First Source I would actually

expect

profits P to grow about 2 and 1 half

times in the next 3 years we've got our

building blocks clear we are expecting

we what we've done is very simple ba

unlocks cash flow and cash is King cash

flow and cash is king So shift to high

margin

businesses focus on costs shift to

expanding wallet share with existing

customers uh move to more and more

higher margin businesses as opposed to

lower margin

businesses we are acquiring as we go

along we've just in the process of

completing an acquisition that we did uh

in

America recently and the integration is

just about happening and that's a

constant process so to get into higher

margin offerings to become more and more

relevant to our customers to shift the

onshore offshore mix to reduce

attritions to invest in people and

quality of services to invest in

technology to invest in analytics so a

lot is happening and we are

getting to growth rates which are not

only aggressive but

attractive I can't speak much more about

it but at this point in time we very

satisfied with what we have

achieved uh we have a new team uh

virtually a brand new team and that team

is beginning to deliver M uh and I see

this delivery becoming stronger and

stronger with each quarter mhm so where

where we were having say one major win

in a

year we are now getting two wins a

quarter okay and these are major

wins and the target is to get to three

wins a quarter mhm so uh and the size of

the Winds so it differs from I mean some

could be 10 million acvs some could be

15 some could be 20 some are

bigger very soon you will hear of one

major

win uh in the next maybe 10 15

days uh so there'll be lots and there's

lots of exciting things happening in

terms of product in terms of margins in

terms of winds in terms of consolidation

so

overall we now have a complete grip on

what we are doing and what we need to do

to improve p 2 and a half times in the

next 3 years okay uh you talked about

that acquisition uh the quintessence

acquisition that you did are you looking

at more and any specific capabilities

any specific geographies that you wish

to address why the m&a route and uh you

know in terms of growth aspiration you

laid out uh for me what you believe is

likely to happen in terms of profits but

the aspiration of taking on the emphasis

the Whos the H Tex of the world is that

an aspiration as well uh you know for

the

future you know aspiration has no

boundaries and it's Limitless and the

one thing that you learn from Prime

Minister

Modi and you get inspired by people like

Mukesh Amani is that scale has no limits

as long as you can execute as long as

you can Finance at a low

cost scale is just a number and I'm

trying to speak this language with my

team that let's reimagine aspirations

let's reimagine

scale uh and let's do it in a manner

where we are not looking at debt as a

way of doing it but we look at internal

acrs Plus

Capital uh to actually get to that and I

think the change in rpsg has happened in

terms of mindset in terms of

approach and we are reskilling ourselves

we are getting

people who can

actually deliver on these

aspirations and who whose aspirations

match our

aspirations so I think we in a happy

space right now in a happy space of

finally question on First Source before

I move to Cesc uh uh you know in terms

of capabilities and especially as we

enter this Ai and AI driven error uh

what is the plan on the back end as far

as First Source is concerned

specifically and uh you know in terms of

demand you talked about uh moving to

deal wins of two or three a quarter but

specifically from the bfsi space Etc

what's the expectation what do you

picking up in terms of demand recovery

so bfsi is

growing but where Mar are growing as

Healthcare and that is an area that we

are expanding in we do believe there are

certain other sectors which offer a lot

of attractive returns we do we are

entering uh we've just entered South

Africa as a geography we are going to

enter

Australia uh next month I hope I'm not

leaking out something

there uh but uh yes and these are

geographies where margins are good so

it's going to be a mix of geographies

where margins are good and products

where margins I

[Music]

got let's now talk about Cesc both in

terms of demand at this point in time uh

what's the Outlook and if we can get an

update from you on what's Happening as

far as NOA is concerned what's happening

with the darala and the halia IPP as

well so that's again another space

that's going well so we are investing

not only in distribution but we

investing in generation as well so right

now over the next 2 years we're going to

set up 3 gaw of Renewables which is

hybrid between solar and wind the

projects are under execution right now

and this will go into our distribution

networks in Kolkata in Noida in

Rajasthan in

Maharashtra so uh we will take them

across our distribution

networks and so

you they're profitable they're

green they're forward-looking

and the margin enhancing so it really

works across all the all all

parameters and it's something that we

very excited about so this is the

beginning in the green energy sector uh

three gaws to begin with ultimately

going up to 10 okay and uh we will we

looking actively at hydrogen

electrolyzers uh they're very inspired

by the finance Minister's talk on the

green modular yeah and the modular

nuclear plants and obviously that we

understand is more futuristic but it's

something that we looking at very keenly

mhm and uh so there is a lot happening

in that space and the whole green energy

part is being driven by

shashwat uh and uh I'm happy to say he's

actually doing a way better job than

I've ever done you know you talked about

modular nuclear and this was part of the

finance Minister's budget speech as well

one of the budget announcements I mean

you know by when do you expect to

formalize or finalize your decision to

foray or get into this space so I think

we are still waiting for the government

announcements on the actual policy it's

the intent of all private sector that's

been announced so once the policy is

announced then we will actually

formulate our entry into this whole

Space uh in terms of capacity addition

uh you know as far as Cesc is concerned

what should we expect between now and

the 5year target so 3 gws over the next

2 years I think another two in two years

thereafter and

another five in 2 years thereafter so in

6 years about 10 years gws and the kind

of Investments that it would entail so

it would be about 70,000 cror 70,000

cror tariff rationalization any

indication any plans on that front at

this point so we've we've actually

increased the fuel sarch

charge which we are entitled to by law

in Kolkata last month so it's the first

time in 7 years we've actually looked at

even recovering part of our uh

costs uh but that's a great initiative

by the central government which says

that every quarter you actually just

charge and the Regulatory Commission

will then examine your costs and if you

off you make Corrections mhm uh on the

uh private uh privatization of discoms

uh you know any forward movement there

any indication so we we we do believe

that a lot will

happen and we expect it to happen soon

but let let it happen we are still

awaiting for the high court judgment on

the chandigar thing where we won the bid

and we are told now the matter will be

heard

quickly uh so hopefully it'll get

disposed of and we can take over

chandigar it's a very attractive uh City

and an attractive Zone and we do believe

a lot can be done there so you know

finally a big picture as far as cc is

concerned both in terms of growth both

as well as the aspiration on

profitability so as I said 10 gaw by way

of renewable

energy

hydrogen electrolyzers uh possibly

nuclear so that's at a strategic level

at a granular level more on distribution

M more efficiency on distribution

getting in cheaper power into your

distribution zones to make them more

profitable so it's a combination well

now let's talk about fmcg and the plan

as far as fmcg is concerned where do you

get Confidence from on what is working

for you on the fmcg side and again both

in terms of investments in terms of a

new foras uh what is the plan at this

point so the snacking part the better

for you snacking is actually beginning

to work and we are now at about a 600 CR

uh beat rate annually which is going up

every

month uh and at this level we are

beginning to see the losses coming down

sharply okay we don't yet make profits

we're not expected to make profits at

this level but we can see now the path

to 1,000 crores which is where we start

to break even so that foray is actually

working well when do you anticipate a

break even for the fmcg business I think

another two years and what kind of

Investments are we still talking about

are you continuing you will look yeah we

will continue to make investments the

losses now would be about 200 crores a

year as as opposed to 350 so that's a

significant

reduction and there will be investments

in capacity and

products uh so but overall I think it's

something that's trending very well yes

we are one year behind what we had uh

anticipated uh but we're pretty much

there so no no pulling back no on either

Investments or uh aspiration in terms of

the portfolio mix not at all uh so what

would be the investment plan for fmcg as

well as the products fmcg doesn't take

great investments in terms

of in uh capacities because you can

actually get third parties to

manufacture for you so it's it's a asset

light model so your investment really go

goes in terms of brand

building and which translates into

losses till you get to a certain size

mhm linked to that let me also quickly

uh ask you a question as far as the r

business is concerned and what we can

expect for Spencers uh you know what

would the expectation be there in terms

of a quartly run rate so I think the

plan is and we have to yet get there is

by the end of the year to get to a cash

Break Even which I think we are well on

the path to

doing uh Nature's Basket continues to do

very well and that is where we expanding

the footprint quick Commerce because

that seems to be the

uh the the current Trend that is

exciting of course the aggregators as

well as the consumers is that something

that you're looking at yes so we did

take over a company which was in quick

Commerce that's doing well but we are

not going crazy expanding because the

more you expand the more you lose the

more you lose the more cash flows you

need so we are balancing cash flow

requirements

with uh with growth so it's it's it's

modulated so the growth expectations the

revenue expectations than the investment

plan for Spencers so investment will be

more in Nature's Basket at this point in

time where we are growing so it's it's

small so there's not significant

investment in retail but yes we do

believe we will get to a break even in

the next couple of quarters so that's a

very significant step forward once we

get there then we sit back evaluate and

calibrate okay uh and finally let me uh

ask you but uh uh the ambition on the

sports side and we've of course been

seeing you on on television in The

Dugout as well Mr Goa but uh you know

how how has that bet panned out for you

and more importantly are you willing to

take bigger bets from here on well it's

something that's uh been very

successful uh we got the franchise for

7,000 crores we are reading that

gujarat's Titans is getting sold for

12,500 cror

I don't know whether it's true or not

but that's what we read uh and if that

is indeed the case then in 2 and 1/2

years 7,000 becoming 12,500 is not bad

at all so would you look at monetizing

this in your franchise in any way no no

plans at this point in time okay Mr Goa

it's been an absolute pleasure it's

great to have you back on the channel to

give us a very comprehensive view of uh

the growth engines as well as the growth

plans for each of your businesses over

the next 5 years appreciate your time

thanks very much thank you so much inin

pleasure being here well with that it is

time for us to wrap up this cbct tv18

special conversation from all of us here

on the team goodbye and many thanks for

watching

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