The Only Difference Between Magic and Prayer | Jonathan Pageau (Q&A Clip)

Summary

The video transcript explores the distinction between prayer and magic, emphasizing the role of will in both practices. Prayer is framed as a submission to a higher will, in contrast to the self-centered will of magic spells. It delves into the historical intertwining of religious liturgy and magical incantations, noting how powerful religious phrases have been co-opted for magical purposes. The speaker humorously touches on the origins of 'hocus pocus' and its relation to the Eucharist, highlighting the fine line between reverence and manipulation in the use of potent words.

Takeaways

• 🧙 The speaker discusses the difference between prayer and magic, emphasizing the role of will in each.
• 🔮 Prayer is seen as a submission to a higher will, 'thy will be done', whereas magic is about imposing one's own will on reality.
• 📜 The transcript touches on the historical connection between religious liturgy and magic spells, suggesting that powerful religious phrases have been co-opted for magical use.
• 🤔 It raises the question of whether prayer can be used as a form of magic spell, indicating that some people do attempt to use prayer to manipulate reality.
• 🕊️ The speaker contrasts prayer as a means of elevating and preparing oneself to receive from a higher power, rather than using it to get what one wants.
• 📖 There's a mention of Aleister Crowley's Thelema philosophy, which promotes the idea of 'Do what thou wilt' as the whole of the law.
• 🗣️ Words and phrases are highlighted as having transformative power, both in prayer and magic, but with different intentions and outcomes.
• 🎭 The transcript humorously points out the absurdity of some magic spells, like 'Abra-cadabra', suggesting they may have originated as playful distortions of sacred words.
• 🍞 It explains that 'Hocus Pocus' may have originated from the transformation of bread into the body during the Eucharist, indicating a playful or mocking twist on religious rituals.
• 🤝 The speaker suggests that the power of words in religious sacraments has been recognized and sometimes misused in an attempt to achieve personal desires.
• 😄 There's an anecdote about someone having 'Hoke Corpus' on a football jersey, adding a light-hearted touch to the discussion.

Q & A

Can prayer be considered a form of magic spell?

No, prayer is not considered a form of magic spell. The speaker differentiates between the two based on the concept of 'Will'. Magic is about imposing one's will on reality, while prayer is about aligning with a higher will and receiving what is meant to come.

What is the main difference between magic and prayer according to the transcript?

The main difference lies in the intention behind the act. Magic is about using words as a technology to manipulate reality to get what one wants, whereas prayer is about using words to elevate oneself and prepare to receive from a higher power.

What does the speaker compare the act of prayer to?

The speaker compares prayer to liturgy, which is a religious service involving set forms of liturgical rites and prayers.

What is the concept of 'Will' in the context of magic and prayer?

In the context of magic, 'Will' refers to the practitioner's intention to impose their desires on reality. In prayer, 'Will' is about surrendering one's desires to a higher power, often expressed as 'thy will be done'.

How does the speaker describe the relationship between words and reality in magic and prayer?

The speaker describes words in magic as a technology to manipulate reality, while in prayer, words are used to transform one's connection to reality and prepare for divine influence.

What is the significance of the phrase 'do thy will' in the context of prayer?

'Do thy will' signifies the surrender of one's personal will to the divine will, which is a central concept in prayer as opposed to magic where one's own will is paramount.

How do some magical phrases originate from religious sacraments?

Some magical phrases are derived from powerful religious words or sacraments, such as the transformation of bread and wine into the body and blood, because people recognize the power in these words and attempt to harness it for their own purposes.

What is the term 'Hocus Pocus' believed to have originated from?

The term 'Hocus Pocus' is believed to have originated from the Latin phrase 'Hoc est Corpus', used in the Eucharist during the Christian mass, and was later used in a mocking or playful manner.

Why might some people use prayer as if it were a magic spell?

Some people might use prayer as a magic spell because they believe that by expressing their desires to a higher power, they can coax reality into manifesting what they want, similar to the idea of the 'Law of Attraction'.

What is the speaker's view on using powerful religious words for personal gain in magic?

The speaker views this practice as misguided and potentially ridiculous, as it misunderstands the true purpose of religious sacraments and prayers, which is not to manipulate reality for personal desires.

What does the speaker suggest about the nature of magical spells and incantations?

The speaker suggests that magical spells and incantations can be seen as a misappropriation or deformation of powerful religious phrases, used in an attempt to control reality according to one's will.

Outlines

00:00

🧙‍♂️ The Distinction Between Magic and Prayer

The speaker explores the question of whether prayer can be viewed as a form of magic spell, highlighting the importance of differentiating between the two. They discuss the concept of 'Will' as the key differentiator, with magic being about imposing one's will on reality, while prayer is about submitting to a higher will. The speaker also touches on the idea that both practices involve the transformative power of words, but in different ways: magic as a means to manipulate reality and prayer as a means to elevate oneself and receive divine guidance. Additionally, they mention the historical transformation of religious sacraments into magical incantations, suggesting a connection between the power of sacred words and their misuse in magic.

Keywords

💡Prayer

Prayer is a form of communication with a deity or a higher power, often expressing one's thoughts, hopes, and requests. In the video's context, it is contrasted with magic spells, emphasizing that prayer is about aligning oneself with the divine will rather than imposing one's own will on reality. The script mentions how people might use prayer to ask for specific things, like a car, illustrating the potential for misinterpretation as a means to manipulate reality.

💡Magic Spell

A magic spell, in the context of the video, is a ritual or verbal formula intended to influence the course of events or produce a desired outcome through supernatural means. The script discusses the potential for prayer to be misconstrued as a magic spell, highlighting the difference between using words to manipulate reality for personal gain versus using them to elevate and prepare for divine guidance.

💡Occultism

Occultism refers to the study of supernatural or hidden knowledge, often associated with practices like magic and mysticism. The video script differentiates between occultism and liturgy, suggesting that the former is more about using words as a technology to manipulate reality, whereas the latter is about elevating the spirit and receiving divine will.

💡Liturgy

Liturgy, in religious contexts, is the public worship conducted by a religious assembly. The script uses liturgy as a contrast to magic, indicating that it involves the use of words to connect with the divine rather than to manipulate reality. The script also suggests that some magic phrases may have origins in liturgical practices.

💡Will

In the script, 'will' is discussed in two contexts: the individual's will, which is about personal desires and intentions, and the divine will, which is the intention of a higher power. The difference between magic and prayer is framed around the concept of will, with prayer being about aligning with the divine will, in contrast to magic, which is about imposing one's will.

💡Thelema

Thelema is a philosophical and religious concept central to the philosophy of Aleister Crowley, emphasizing the importance of aligning one's will with one's true purpose. The script mentions 'theelite' as an example of the idea of doing one's will as a fundamental law, contrasting it with the approach of prayer.

💡Hocus Pocus

Hocus Pocus is a phrase often associated with stage magicians and trickery, but the script suggests it may have originated from the Latin phrase 'Hoc est enim Corpus' used in the Christian Eucharist. The video discusses how powerful liturgical words could be distorted into magic spells, with Hocus Pocus being an example of such a transformation.

💡Eucharist

The Eucharist is a Christian sacrament that involves the consumption of bread and wine, symbolizing the body and blood of Christ. The script mentions how the transformation of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ could be seen as a powerful act of divine manifestation, which may have inspired the use of similar phrases in magic spells.

💡Manipulation

Manipulation, in the context of the video, refers to the act of influencing or controlling something often in a cunning or deceitful manner. The script contrasts the use of words in magic spells to manipulate reality with the use of words in prayer to open oneself to divine will, suggesting a misuse of prayer as a form of manipulation.

💡Reality

Reality, in the video's narrative, is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or be thought to be. Both prayer and magic are presented as ways of engaging with reality, but with different intentions: prayer seeks to align with a higher reality, while magic seeks to alter reality according to personal desires.

💡Transformation

Transformation, as discussed in the script, refers to the process of changing from one form or state to another. The Eucharist is highlighted as a transformation where bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. This concept is also extended to the idea of words having the power to transform, either through the elevation of spirit in prayer or the manipulation of reality in magic.

Highlights

Leon asks if prayer can be seen as a form of magic spell, sparking a discussion on the differences between prayer and magic.

Differentiating between magic and prayer involves understanding the role of will and intention in each practice.

Occultism and liturgy are contrasted, with magic being about doing one's will and prayer being about surrendering to a higher will.

Both prayer and magic are ways of engaging with reality through meaningful language, but with different goals and approaches.

Magic is likened to a technology, using words to manipulate reality and achieve desired outcomes.

Prayer is described as an elevation of the highest aspects of oneself to prepare for receiving divine guidance or intervention.

The transcript explores the idea that some magical phrases may have originated from religious liturgy or sacraments.

The power of words in religious rituals, such as the transformation of bread and wine into the body and blood, is discussed.

People may attempt to use powerful religious phrases for their own will, blurring the lines between prayer and magic.

The transcript humorously notes the origins of the phrase 'Hocus Pocus' and its relation to religious transformation.

Magic spells are often seen as tricky and amusing, with some phrases like 'Abra Kadabra' being playful in nature.

The transcript questions the efficacy of using prayer as a means to manipulate reality, suggesting it may not be as straightforward as some believe.

The idea of 'The Secret' is mentioned, where people believe that focusing their will can coax reality into manifesting desires.

Prayer is contrasted with this approach, as it is not about trying to impose one's will on reality but rather opening oneself to divine will.

The transcript concludes by emphasizing that while one can attempt to use prayer as magic, it may not work as expected due to the nature of divine will.

A light-hearted anecdote about 'Hoke Corpus' being humorously used on a football jersey adds a touch of humor to the discussion.

Transcripts

all right so Leon uh says can prayer be

seen as a form of magic spell this is a

really great question it's a great

question because I can understand why

people would think that and that it's

important to differentiate the two and

so and it really is something which is

similar to other ways I've represented

reality to you which is that the

difference between occultism and liturgy

or the difference between Magic and

prayer has to do with Will which has to

do with the difference between do thou

do th do thy will whatever like the kind

of the theelite idea you know the alow

Crowley idea of that doing your will is

the first of the law um and that it's

all about doing your will

whereas prayer is not my will but thy

will be done and

so although both are affecting reality

and engaging reality through meaning

making you know they're both the idea

that words can transform you and can

transform your connection to reality one

is more in the sense of a like a

technology you could say using words as

technology to manipulate other things

and to get what you want from the world

whereas the other the L the Liturgy or

the prayer is rather using words to

elevate that which is the highest and

prepare yourself to receive from that

what is what is going to come right you

know and

not and not try to Simply impose your

will on reality so that's what I how I

see it but you can imagine why some

magical sentences right some magical um

magic words were based on the Liturgy

based on the sacrament and that I forget

which one it is but there is one of the

famous magic phrases which is basically

a kind of deformation of when the priest

when the bread and and wine become the

the body and blood so you could see how

that would

happen and then people would want to

take that which is very powerful and

they realize it's a powerful word that

is you know B basically you know

participating in God manifesting himself

in the world and say wow that's a

powerful word that's a powerful sentence

if I can do that and all these people

come to church and are willing to

participate in that you know and like

take the the the the fruit of that I'm

like hm maybe I could use that to do my

own will and I could use those words to

manipulate reality in order to do what I

want therefore the magic phrases or the

Magic The Magic incantation but you can

see how it becomes kind of ridiculous

you know and which is why a lot of the

you I think it's Hocus Pocus I think

Hocus Pocus comes from the

transformation of the the bread into the

body I'm not sure yeah someone says

Hocus Pocus in the in the chat um and

you can see why magic magic spells are

usually kind of tricky and kind of funny

like if you look at Abra Abracadabra or

whatever you know it's like a it's like

a it's a word that you can flip upside

down that you can do all the stuff it's

yeah so it's it's so I would say there

are definitely it's that question is

important because you could do that you

could use prayer as a as a magic spell

if you imagine prayer as just a way like

the secret right the idea that all you

have to do is put your will out there

put your will out there like write what

you want on a letter you know put it in

front of you meditate on it you know

send yourself a letter with what you

want so that you're kind of coaxing

reality into manifesting what you want

from it and people do that with prayer

people will you know ask God to give

them a car will ask God to help them um

get out of situations that they put

themselves in um and so they're trying

to manipulate reality using God but you

know God is not a fool and will not be

played that

way so beautiful summer says hocus inum

Corpus may this is the body so yeah yeah

yeah someone says M arnstein clain says

my dad has Hoke hokes Corpus on the back

of his Liverpool football jersey that's

hilarious apparently hokey pokei was

originally making fun of mass too huh

interesting