Global Journalist: Gender quotas on the march

Summary

The script from 'Global Journalists' discusses the impact of gender quotas in politics worldwide, highlighting the U.S. Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Brett Kavanaugh as a backdrop. It examines the voluntary quota system in Sweden, which has significantly increased women's parliamentary representation, and contrasts it with mandatory quotas in countries like Rwanda and Zimbabwe. The conversation includes insights from Swedish MP Ausa Eriksson, Zimbabwean journalist Tendai Marima, and researchers Jennifer Piscopo and Anna Catalfamo Weeks, who explore the effectiveness, controversies, and potential long-term necessity of such quotas in achieving gender equality in politics.

Takeaways

• 🗨️ The US Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Brett Kavanaugh revealed a significant divide in American society's perception of sexual assault and harassment accusations.
• 🔢 A notable statistic highlighted was the 23% share of women in the US Senate, which is lower than many countries, reflecting a broader issue of gender representation in politics.
• 🌍 The US ranks 103rd in the world for the proportion of women in its national legislature, behind countries like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Iraq.
• 📊 Over 60 countries have implemented formal quotas for women in politics, either mandating a minimum number of female candidates or reserving legislative seats for women, a trend that began in the 1990s.
• 🇸🇪 Sweden has achieved gender equality in its parliament without legal quotas, through a voluntary system adopted by political parties that alternates male and female candidates on their lists.
• 🏛️ In Sweden, the voluntary quota system has led to increased competence and education levels among elected officials, contrary to initial fears of a decline in merit.
• 👶 Family policies in Sweden, such as generous parental leave, have contributed to a more equal society where both parents share responsibilities at home.
• 🇷🇼 Rwanda stands out with over 60% female representation in its parliament, enforced by a 30% quota, which has impacted laws related to domestic violence and women's issues.
• 🇿🇼 Zimbabwe's constitution mandates 50% representation for women in Parliament, but in practice, only 26 women were elected in the 2020 elections, indicating mixed results in implementation.
• 💡 Gender quotas have been shown to be effective when they require alternation of male and female candidates on electoral lists, ensuring that women are in winnable positions.
• 🤔 Despite the global spread of gender quotas, the US has been hesitant to adopt such measures due to unique electoral systems and historical anxieties around affirmative action.

Q & A

What was the main topic of discussion in the 'Global Journalists' episode featuring Jayson McClure?

The main topic of discussion was gender quotas in politics and how they operate around the globe.

What percentage of women in the US Senate and House of Representatives was mentioned in the script?

The script mentioned that 23% of the US Senate and just over 19 percent of the House of Representatives are women.

How does the ranking of the US compare to other countries in terms of women's representation in national legislature?

The US ranks about 103rd in the world for the share of women in the national legislature, behind countries like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Iraq.

What is the concept of gender quotas in politics and when did it begin to take off?

Gender quotas in politics is the idea of mandating a certain percentage of female candidates or setting aside legislative seats for women. This concept began to take off in the early 1990s.

How does the voluntary quota system work in Sweden as described by AUSA Eriksson?

In Sweden, political parties have formed a voluntary system where they alternate male and female candidates on their lists. This has been in place since 1993 and has significantly impacted gender equality in the Swedish Parliament.

What was the impact of the voluntary quota system on the competence level in the Swedish Parliament according to the Uppsala University study?

The Uppsala University study showed that the level of competence and education has increased with the implementation of the gender quota system in most of the parties.

What is the percentage of women in the Rwandan Parliament after the September elections?

After the September elections, about 68% of the parliamentarians in Rwanda are female.

How does the quota system in Zimbabwe differ from that in Rwanda?

Zimbabwe's constitution mandates a 50% representation of women in Parliament, but in practice, only 26 women were elected into Parliament in the 2020 elections, with most entering through proportional representation seats that have a limited term.

What are some of the criticisms against gender quotas in politics?

Some criticisms include the argument that gender quotas are fundamentally undemocratic as they deny opportunities for men to contest seats, and the concern that women elected through quotas may not be seen as having achieved it on their own merit.

What is the situation regarding gender quotas in the United States?

In the United States, the idea of gender quotas in politics has not gained much traction, partly due to the unique election system and historical anxieties around affirmative action.

What are the two strategic reasons Anna Catalano Weeks found that could motivate political parties to adopt gender quotas?

The two strategic reasons are the presence of a rising competitor on the left that is gaining traction, and the belief that implementing a voluntary quota would make the party more appealing to constituents, especially when local party leaders are not receptive to voluntary quotas.

Outlines

00:00

🗳️ Gender Quotas in Politics and Kavanaugh Hearings

The script begins with a discussion on the US Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Justice Brett Kavanaugh, highlighting the divide in public opinion regarding accusations of sexual assault. It introduces the topic of gender quotas in politics, noting the low percentage of women in the US Senate and House of Representatives. The script mentions that more than 60 countries have implemented gender quotas, either legally or voluntarily, to increase women's representation in politics. The segment features an interview with AUSA Eriksson, a member of the Swedish Parliament, who explains Sweden's voluntary quota system and its impact on gender equality in politics.

05:00

🌍 International Perspectives on Gender Quotas

This paragraph delves into the global context of gender quotas, starting with an examination of Sweden's voluntary system and its success in doubling the representation of women in Parliament compared to the US. It then contrasts this with Rwanda's legal quota system, which has resulted in over 60% female representation in Parliament. The discussion also touches on Zimbabwe's constitutional provision for 50% female representation and the challenges faced in achieving this goal. The segment includes insights from journalist Tendai Matare on the impact of quotas on policy and societal change in Africa.

10:02

📊 The Efficacy and Challenges of Gender Quotas

The script addresses the effectiveness of gender quotas in influencing public policy, with a focus on the experiences of Rwanda and Zimbabwe. It discusses the challenges faced by women in politics, including stereotypes and backlash, and the importance of financial inclusion for women. The conversation also explores the role of quotas in ensuring gender-sensitive policies and the limitations of women's political power, even in countries with high representation.

15:02

🏛️ The Strategic Adoption of Gender Quotas by Political Parties

This section examines the reasons why male-led political parties might choose to implement gender quotas. It discusses the strategic benefits of adopting quotas, such as appealing to a broader constituency or countering competition from other parties. The script features insights from researchers Jennifer Piscopo and Anna Catalán Weeks, who explore the conditions under which quotas are adopted and the impact on party dynamics.

20:02

📈 The Impact of Gender Quotas on Candidate Quality and Representation

The script challenges the criticism that gender quotas result in less qualified candidates by presenting research findings that show women elected through quotas are as qualified as their male counterparts. It discusses the importance of placing women in electable positions on party lists to ensure their representation. The conversation also touches on the technical and normative reasons why gender quotas may not be as prevalent in the US, including the unique election system and historical context around affirmative action.

25:03

🔍 The Future of Gender Quotas in Politics

The final paragraph contemplates the future necessity of gender quotas, considering whether they might become obsolete as societies achieve greater gender equality. It acknowledges the intertwining of inequality in the household, workforce, and politics, suggesting that quotas may still be needed for the foreseeable future. The script concludes with reflections from the researchers on the potential long-term impact of quotas on political parties and the importance of continued efforts towards gender equality in politics.

Keywords

💡Gender quotas

Gender quotas refer to the policy of reserving a certain proportion of positions or opportunities for women in political or corporate settings. In the video, gender quotas are discussed as a means to increase women's representation in politics globally, with various countries implementing different forms of quotas, either mandatory or voluntary, to address gender imbalances in legislatures.

💡US Supreme Court

The US Supreme Court is the highest court in the United States and plays a critical role in interpreting the Constitution and federal laws. The video mentions the confirmation hearings for Justice Brett Kavanaugh, highlighting the divisive nature of sexual assault allegations and the broader societal context in which gender quotas are debated.

💡Sexual assault

Sexual assault is a serious crime involving non-consensual sexual contact. The script discusses the testimony of Christine Blasey Ford, who accused Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault, underscoring the intense scrutiny and skepticism women often face when making such accusations, which is relevant to discussions on gender equality and women's representation.

💡Legislature

A legislature is a deliberative assembly with the authority to make, amend, or repeal laws. The video script mentions the low percentage of women in the US Senate and House of Representatives, comparing it unfavorably to other countries, to emphasize the need for gender quotas to achieve a more equitable balance of power.

💡Voluntary quotas

Voluntary quotas are non-mandatory targets set by organizations or political parties to encourage the inclusion of women in their ranks. The script discusses Sweden's voluntary quota system, where political parties have adopted gender-balanced candidate lists, leading to a significant increase in women's parliamentary representation.

💡Electoral systems

Electoral systems determine the methods and processes by which voters choose their representatives. The video explains how different electoral systems, such as party-list proportional representation, can influence the effectiveness of gender quotas in ensuring women's political representation.

💡Meritocracy

A meritocracy is a system where advancement is based on individual ability and talent rather than factors such as gender or social class. Critics of gender quotas argue that they undermine meritocracy, but the video challenges this view by presenting evidence that women elected through quotas are as competent as their male counterparts.

💡Discrimination

Discrimination refers to unfair treatment based on certain characteristics such as gender, race, or age. The script argues that structural discrimination exists against women in politics, and gender quotas are a legal remedy to address this imbalance and promote equality.

💡Affirmative action

Affirmative action involves policies and measures to increase opportunities for members of groups that have been discriminated against. The video notes the contentious history of affirmative action in the US, particularly in the context of racial discrimination, and how this shapes the debate around gender quotas.

💡Rwanda

Rwanda is highlighted in the video as an example of a country with a high percentage of women in its parliament, exceeding 60%. This is attributed to a constitutional quota for women, demonstrating the impact of such policies on women's political representation and the potential for positive societal change.

💡Zimbabwe

Zimbabwe is mentioned in the script to illustrate a case where the implementation of gender quotas has had mixed results. Despite a constitutional provision for 50% representation of women in Parliament, the actual number of women elected has been lower, indicating the challenges in translating quotas into effective representation.

Highlights

The US Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Brett Kavanaugh revealed a deep divide in American society's view on accusations of sexual assault and harassment.

Christine Blasi Ford testified with certainty of Kavanaugh's sexual assault during high school, while Kavanaugh denied the allegations with equal certainty.

Only 23% of the US Senate are women, a figure that ranks the US 103rd in the world for female representation in national legislature.

Sweden has achieved nearly equal gender representation in Parliament without mandatory quotas, through a voluntary system implemented by political parties.

Sweden's Social Democratic Party decided in 1993 to alternate male and female candidates on their electoral lists, significantly impacting gender equality.

A study from Uppsala University showed that the introduction of gender quotas in Sweden has not decreased the level of competence among politicians.

Rwanda has a 30% quota for women in Parliament and has seen women win more than 60% of parliamentary seats in recent elections.

Despite political representation, women in Rwanda still face challenges with financial inclusion and gender-sensitive policy implementation.

In Zimbabwe, despite a constitutional provision for 50% representation, only 26 women were elected to Parliament in the 2020 elections.

Zimbabwe's proportional representation seats, which were meant to enhance female representation, will become extinct by 2023 due to a two-term limit.

Latin American countries have widely adopted gender quotas in politics, starting with Argentina in the early 1990s, as part of democratic reforms.

Gender quotas are often more accepted in countries with a history of social movements and civil society protests leading to democratization.

Political parties in Europe have adopted gender quotas for strategic reasons, such as countering rising competitors or appealing to constituents.

Effective quota laws require not just a specified percentage of female candidates, but also their placement in electable list positions.

Critics argue that gender quotas are undemocratic and could lead to less qualified candidates, but research shows that quota-elected women are as competent as men.

The US has been hesitant to adopt gender quotas in politics due to unique election systems and a contentious history with affirmative action.

Sweden's experience with voluntary quotas suggests that even in highly gender-equal societies, such measures may still be necessary to maintain balance.

Research indicates that gender quotas may need to remain in place indefinitely until deeper societal inequalities in caretaking and workforce positions are addressed.

Transcripts

[Music]

from the Missouri School of Journalism

welcome to global journalists I'm Jayson

McClure the charged US Supreme Court

confirmation hearings for justice Brett

Kavanaugh highlighted the stark divide

in how Americans view accusations of

sexual assault and sexual harassment one

of Cavanaugh's accusers christine Blasi

Ford testified that she was 100% certain

that Kavanagh sexually assaulted her

when they were both in high school

Cavanaugh testified he was 100% certain

he didn't one percentage that jumped out

for many viewers was this figure 23%

that's the share of women in the US

Senate the body that voted to confirm

Kavanagh and the House of

Representatives the figure is even lower

just over 19 percent are women that

ranks the u.s. about a hundred and third

in the world for the share of women in

the national legislature behind

countries like Saudi Arabia Venezuela

and Iraq now one reason why there are so

many more female legislators in other

countries is that a growing number of

governments have formal quotas for women

in politics this is an idea that began

to take off in the early 1990s

today more than 60 have passed laws

either mandating quotas for the number

of female candidates or setting aside a

certain number of legislative seats for

women in dozens of other countries

political parties ascribe to voluntary

quotas

now these legally impose quotas of

course are almost always controversial

but they are growing in popularity so on

this edition of global journalists we'll

take a closer look at how gender quotas

in politics operate around the globe and

we've got a great lineup of guests to

talk about this to kick things off we're

joined from norburg Sweden by AUSA

Eriksson she's a member of the Swedish

parliament the Riksdag

from the center-left social democrats

also welcome thank you nice being on the

show well it's wonderful to have you

Sweden I understand just had

parliamentary elections women were

elected to 44% of the seats that's about

double their share in the US Congress

tell us just a little bit about how

Sweden sort of made this change

obviously Sweden's Parliament looked

much different 30 years ago yeah that's

true

and we don't have any law for gender

quotas so it's a voluntary system that

political parties has formed itself my

party the Social Democratic Party

decided I think it was 1993 that we will

have equal voting lists for all the

different elections in Sweden you not

only choose a ballot with a party you

choose a list of candidates that party

has decided itself and since 1993 we

have every second female and every

second male candidate on the list and

that has made a huge impact on gender

equality okay so just to clarify because

the system is uh it is a bit different

from the US so the party actually

decides which candidates from each

constituency will run and then depending

on your vote share there you can win two

three four zero of the slots available

there and that's why it's important that

you're they're sort of they alternate

male female male female then if I

understand exactly that's correct and

it's also important that we not always

have men on the top positions because if

you get three teats that will be two men

and one woman so we're trying to make

sure that in some concession see we have

female on top that's the case in my

constituency I'm number three and we

have three seats

so from MicroStation see we are two

women and one men okay and so your party

the Social Democrats adopted this back

in 1993 they're a center-left party have

parties across the political spectrum

adopted similar quotas well most of them

it's not hundred percent that of the

political parties that are using this

system but most parties are and we have

a more or less equal Parliament right

now but the parties on the far right

have more men than women and our green

party which is to the left they have I

think two-thirds women in their

parliamentary group right now are these

quotas even though they're voluntary

quotas are they are they

controversial was their resistance to

them when they were imposed yes in the

beginning definitely there were huge

discussions a lot of people both men and

women actually were against it and the

most common argument was that the the

level of competence would decrease when

we had more women on the voting lists

but we have a recent study from Uppsala

University that has shown that it's the

opposite the level of competence and

education is much higher now when we

have this gender quota system in most of

the parties okay and I think we'll talk

more about this later but in other words

there were these fears that among other

things that women who wouldn't have

gotten into Parliament on their own

merit would be making it because of this

quota system you're saying there's some

research showing that that's not in fact

the case yeah that's right and we've

seen that this has spread to several

sectors of the society to the private

sector to the civil society nowadays in

Sweden I mean you would be ashamed to

propose a group of candidates that are

only from one sex you need to have some

kind of gender mixed in in the private

sector in the civil society everywhere

well can you point to sort of specific

public policies or laws that have

changed in Sweden as a result of this

well really because we try to do it the

the voluntarily way we don't have any

laws where we do have laws against

discriminations of course you cannot pay

different wages for men and women doing

the same job for instance but it has

been more of a grassroot movement people

don't tolerate male dominance anymore we

want to make sure that we have both men

and women on all kinds of positions but

what about what about in other areas of

public policy like child care Family

Leave

sexual harassment things like this yes

there we have very big reform

that have been has a big impact on the

society we have I think the world's most

general loss when it comes to parental

leave in Sweden you get 12 months paid

time to stay home and at least three

months needs to be used by one of the

parents so in every family at least

three months the father will stay at

home to take care of the newborn child

and in most families there are most like

50/50 both parents take care of the

household and the kids and that of

course has an impact on all other parts

of the society and let me ask you do you

do people in Sweden view these quotas as

being sort of a permanent feature of

public life I mean given that you know

Sweden it's as you mentioned it's close

to parity at least in terms of women

being represented in Parliament or this

is something that people expect to be

phased out over time no I think most

people are convinced that it's here to

stay there are small groups though on

the right wing who are against this but

they're quite few and I think when you

have lived in a society when there is so

natural with more or less gender

equality we do have our problems here -

I need to agree on that but but if you

had seen all the good things when it

comes to sharing the the burdens in the

household and and also take equal

responsibility when it comes to the

professional life I don't think you want

to change that

well AUSA Eriksson thank you so much for

taking the time to join us well thank

you what's my pleasure this is global

journalist on today's program we're

talking about gender quotas in politics

more than 60 countries around the world

now mandate that a certain number of

each party's candidates be women or

reserve seats for women in their

national legislatures and we just heard

from Swedish Member of Parliament AUSA

Eriksson she talked about how a

voluntary quota system operates in her

country to broaden our discussion we're

going to turn now to Africa we'll talk

about Rwanda where more than 60% of the

our house of parliament is female we'll

also talk about Zimbabwe where the

figure is about 32% in the lower house

and 44% in the Senate and for this we're

joined from Bulawayo Zimbabwe by the

journalists Tendai my Reema

she writes regularly for outlets

including al-jazeera attend a welcome

hello thank you for having me a new show

well it's a pleasure let's start by

talking about Rwanda there were

parliamentary elections there in

September women won more than 60% of the

seats it seems like there's sort of a

positive story to tell about women's

participation there Rwanda we should say

does have I think it's a 30 percent

quota for women in Parliament yes is one

country that's an exception in the sense

that there is greater political

visibility of women and in the elections

that were held just now in September

about 68% of the parliamentarians that

were elected are female so that's

something that's quite significant and

it's not often a situation that you

might find in Africa or even in other

parts of the world and so has this had

sort of a significant impact on Rwandan

society on laws for women I think in

some sense yes it has in terms of trying

to push through laws that are sensitive

towards domestic violence and also in

ensuring that women's parliamentary

representation remains as it is however

I think the challenges that they may

face is in ensuring that the policies

that are the government crafts our

senses are also gender sensitive because

that's the majority of the population

and the second challenge that is also

faced up in a country of Rwanda is also

question of financial inclusion even

though women may be politically

represented they still this question of

financial inclusion and how to extend or

to increase women's economic

participation so that they play a

greater role in the country's economy so

in other words in part Rwanda it is a

relatively poor country but it's still

very often the men that control the

money in the family but I want to ask

you just a bit more about the parliament

because rwanda has also been rule

by president Paul Kagame essentially

since his army took over following the

genocide back in 1994

he's a very strict authoritarian ruler

so are these women in Parliament do they

actually affect public policy or are

they there more as window dressing for

an authoritarian ruler who happens to be

a man I think in some sense is yes

because women have been able to push

through certain changes like for example

like I've said them in the area of

domestic violence or trying to shape

certain policies that are sensitive

towards the needs for public health

system and also sensitivity towards the

elderly however in some areas it doesn't

seem to be that case that women have

that much power because in the example

of you know opposition voices that have

risen up against Paul Kagame the

parliamentarians themselves haven't had

much of a say in in in sort of trying to

prevent some of the things that have

happened like their risks of female

opposition critics that have dead have

spoken out against President Kagame

that's right actually I believe you

interviewed this woman's rights activist

named Diane lugar who tried to run

against Kagame and presidential

elections a year ago but because our

time grows short let me move us to

Zimbabwe talk to us about how quotas

operate in your home country

okay you have a completely different

situation although we have a

constitution that was drafted and put

into law in 2013 that provides that

women should have a 50% representation

in Parliament right now we had elections

in July of 2020 18 and what we've had is

that only 26 of the women were were

chosen into Parliament and the rest of

the women who they were in make up a

total of about 118 parliamentarians and

most of those women brought in through

the proportional representation seat we

should explain this under Zimbabwe

system from this 2013 Constitution

something like 60 seats and a 270 person

Parliament were specifically set aside

for women then

yes the assess the situation but the

reality on the ground is that women are

not being elected into positions of

power but most of the women are getting

in through this proportional

representation seat which were only

which which only has a life of two terms

so by 2023 this this policy is going to

become extinct okay and so so it sounds

like it's sort of mixed results there in

this effort to achieve sort of a 50

percent female Parliament there because

as you mentioned women have only won a

small share of sort of competitive seats

so far yes yes definitely there's only a

small number of women that have been

elected into Parliament and there are

Christians where the Parliament should

still continue with this policy beyond

2023 although women's groups are pushing

for it and they are trying to show that

there is a need for it among

parliamentarians there really is a very

lacks attitude and you know I think the

case has to be really presented to them

very strongly as to why this is right

the continuation of the jay baer what

are some of the challenges for women

running for Parliament in Zimbabwe like

are there some stereotypes yes certainly

because the way that some women are

repeated for example in the media or

even just amongst ordinary citizens

themselves a woman who represents

herself in Parliament is seen as who

runs for office is seen as too strong

too outspoken she's too much of a

feminist or if a woman is strongly

critical of government it can get to

situations where a woman is actually

slandered and caused and caught a name

such as a prostitute or and we saw

this happening

continuously in the run-up to this

year's electoral campaigns particularly

towards presidential candidates and also

towards the head of the Election

Commission happens to be a woman she

again was lauded because the results

were described as being fraudulent and

not in favor of those who were

supporting the opposition said although

the opposition is a greater voice for

democracy in Zimbabwe there are still

people that are very sexist as well and

it sounds like in Rwanda

women who run for office may face

similar types of pressure yes certainly

because we saw this in the case of dan

regatta

when she was running as a presidential

candidate in last year's presidential

elections as soon as she announced her

candidacy there were pictures of her

that were leaked online nude pictures of

her you know just in a way to sort of

you know give her a bad reputation and

make her seem like she wasn't fit for

office you know however she's a very

strong character and she said you know

she wasn't going to be weakened by

threats such as that and you know she

forged ahead and did a file for for

defending the elections although in the

end she wasn't able to run because her

candidacy was disqualified on other

terms

well tender Marina thank you so much for

taking the time to join us thank you

a reminder that you're tuned in to

global journalists I'm Jason McClure on

today's program we're talking about

quotas for women in politics a

phenomenon that has spread to at least

66 countries over the past 25 years now

to broaden our discussion we're gonna

bring in two researchers who have

studied this issue closely joining us

from Los Angeles is Jennifer Piscopo a

professor of politics at Occidental

College Jennifer welcome thank you good

morning thank you for having me and with

us from Bath England is Anna Catalano

weeks a professor of comparative

politics at the University of Bath Donna

welcome well Jennifer if I could start

with you you've done a lot of research

on gender quotas in Latin America I

think it was Argentina was the first

Latin American country to require these

back in the early 1990s tell us how

these came about and sort of how this

idea spread sure so many Latin American

countries had recent transitions to

democracy and so one countries of

transition to democracy in the modern

era there has been a lot of discourse

about the importance of equality

particularly gender equality as a key

plank in being democratic and so many

women in Latin American countries who

had participated in the democratic

transitions in their countries were able

to leverage those discourses introduced

quotas as part of the democratic reforms

and say we have

hittin the social movements the civil

society protests that led to

democratization the political parties

are reforming we now want those seats at

the table for electoral politics and

that this is important to do because in

becoming democratic we need to

demonstrate our commitments to being

equal and having equality in society and

so Argentina was the first but many

Latin American countries quickly

followed and they virtually they spread

to virtually all of South America most

of Central America Mexico as well but

let me turn this to Anna Catalano weeks

you've done some research on why

political parties led and controlled by

men would choose to enact gender quotas

what what did you find to be the

rationale since it would seem to be sort

of like self-defeating for male

politicians to set quotas for women yeah

it's this interesting puzzle because

sort of unlike in the case of South

America or Central America Europe has

seen kind of a more tempered spread of

gender quotas and there's a lot of

voluntary political party quotas but not

all countries have adopted laws so

there's this question of well you know

what motivates party leaders to adopt

them and at the end of the day in Europe

it's been all male party leaders who had

kind of the final word and we're the

ones responsible for pushing the

provisioning through and my research

uncovered two different strategic

reasons why it could be beneficial and

of course you know men can be feminists

too they can support gender equality and

quotas for that reason but there are

also certain conditions under which

passing a quota law can be beneficial

for their political party and one of

those is if there's a rising competitor

on the left so one of these sort of new

Left parties or Green Party is gaining a

lot of traction and perceived to be

stealing votes from perhaps a mainstream

live social democratic party my argue

this was the case in Portugal before

they passed a gender quota law and

another reason it could be that actually

a party wants to implement a voluntary

political party quota and they think

that doing so would make it more

appealing to more constituents but

because of the way kin selection works

it's controlled by

local level and local sort of mail party

leaders are not receptive to the

voluntary quota they won't actually

comply with it passing a law can be the

only way to get their own party to make

significant changes then again we're

talking about systems similar to what

also was talking about in Sweden where

political parties are choosing the

candidates and that's sort of a major

distinction from the United States then

but Jennifer if I could move this back

to you what kind of quota laws have you

seen to be effective and which ones have

haven't worked you know we heard we

heard some of Tendai talking about sort

of the mixed results in Zimbabwe and

Rwanda so on the idea that political

election systems will differ from the

United States so in Latin America most

of the election systems are similar to

Europe the parties are running lists of

candidates and in most cases voters will

simply choose the party so the party

creates the list the list is presented

as a done deal to voters and voters just

say I want this party and therefore I

get that list versus the other party so

a really important aspect of quota laws

is that they not simply require that

political parties run the specified

percentage of candidates whether that be

30 40 or 50 percent but that they

require as awesome mentioned that women

be placed and what we call the electable

list positions so they be alternated

with the male names because of course if

you let the parties run the specified

percentage of women but then cluster

their names at the bottom of the list

the parties would have to win a lot of

the vote to get to those lower list

positions so having the alternation of

men's and women's names on the list has

been absolutely critical in Latin

America for turning the proportion of

candidates into the proportion of women

elected and that has also been true not

just in Latin America but in other

countries where the quota is introduced

with these list systems well on if I

could ask you opponents of these laws

have a number of criticisms one is that

this practice of setting aside seats for

a certain gender is fundamentally

undemocratic because it denies the

opportunity for men to contest these

seats another is that women who win

these seats won't be seen as having

gotten there

their own merit how do you respond to

those criticisms yeah this is really

popular probably the most common

argument you see against gender quotas

so you saw it again with the recent

legislation that was passed in

California for corporate board quotas

this this contention that well it's

gonna lead to less qualified candidates

for office and I think you have to

really think about what's your

definition of merit if you think that's

the case there's been actually a lot of

research done on this in many different

countries I've done research on the case

of Italy with my co-author Lisa Valdez

and there's been research done in France

in different a lot of different

countries around the world which finds

that no matter kind of which

qualifications we look at education

professional background previous

experience within the party etc the

women who come in through the quota laws

are just as qualified as a man and in

fact my research in the case of Italy

showed that you know subsequent to their

election the quota women who came in

were actually more competent in office

in the sense that they were their

attendance levels were higher so they

were more likely to actually show up to

the Parliament and do their jobs so I

think that it's really unfounded and we

should consider that you know if we

think that there are equal top equal

talent pools for both men and women and

then we should question you know this

this idea that there it is the thing

that women quarters gonna lead to less

qualified candies for office well

Jennifer Piscopo if you could pick up on

this in the United States of course this

idea of gender quotas in politics seems

not to have much traction even as it's

spread sort of globally why why do you

think that is what do you think people

in the u.s. seem to view things

differently I think there's a technical

reason and then there's a normative

reason and so the technical reason is

that gender quotas would be difficult in

the United States given the uniqueness

of our election system so in the United

States

anybody can step forward and become a

candidate candidates Reggio them

register themselves with the local

Election Commission and

really have very little control over who

steps forward and says I'm a Democrat I

want to run for office or I'm a

Republican and I want to run for office

and the vast majority of other countries

parties register the candidates parties

control the candidates in primaries that

are often closed just to the parties so

they're not these open primaries the way

we think of them in the United States it

wouldn't be very feasible to try to

control how many men or women go into

congressmen really anyone can run and

anyone can vote for whom they choose to

in the u.s. then exactly we could think

about ways to introduce those kinds of

controls but they would require a lot

more building on some deep-seated norms

about how our election system works

I think the second reason is in the

United States we have a particular

historical background around affirmative

action we have a particular set of

anxieties about it that come out of a

history of racial discrimination in the

US and so we think about affirmative

action in in different ways and in very

contentious ways now to underscore what

honest said there really is no grounds

for the criticism that quotas bring

forward less qualified women in the

United States and in other countries we

see that women were 50% of political

party members women were extremely

active in politics the difficulty very

similar to the corporate environment was

being selected to stand for a powerful

position because of course those

positions are largely held by men and

they want to preserve their power by

having folks like them but I do think

given the United States's racial history

and the very difficult conversations

around that affirmative action for women

has also been a very difficult

conversation and Latin America for

instance benefiting groups based on

their identity be it race via gender is

a much more accepted part of how they

think democracy and social democracy and

equality and fairness work so even

though there is contention over quotas

and affirmative action there is a higher

level of understanding that there is

structural discrimination against groups

and that the law can be used to remedy

that discrimination in the United States

that's much more contested well on a

week's our time does grow short do you

see that these sorts of laws

are something that might be likely to be

needed sort of indefinitely in a number

of countries or is the idea that they

will face out over time we heard AUSA

talking about the case of Sweden which

of course is ranked as one of the most

sort of gender equal nations nations in

the world and yet also saw the need for

these sorts of quotas these rules to

continue yeah I think we're not there

that yet I think that ideally in the in

in the perfect world we wouldn't we

wouldn't need any quotas but we have to

think about inequality in the household

in the workforce and in politics as sort

of things that are intertwined and so

it's just for me you know just so long

as you know there are unequal caretaking

roles in society and unequal positions

of power in the workforce this suggests

to me that we're still going to need

those quotas for women in politics for

sometimes it comes it basically in the

future when you can see a world in which

men women take on all kind of

responsibilities equally then you think

well there wouldn't be any need for a

quota because there shouldn't be that

discrimination and being selected or

coming forward but but I don't think

we're there yet and you know and also

political parties once they must they

have a quarter don't seem to mind it so

even parties of the far-right that I

spoke to in Belgium for example they're

happy the law was implemented now they

think it's improved the political party

even though they were very much against

it at first well we're out of time for

this edition of global journalists a

production of the Reynolds journalism

Institute at the Missouri School of

Journalism and KBI a mid Missouri Public

Radio many thanks to also Eric psin

Tendai marina jennifer Piscopo and anna

Catalano weeks our assistant producers

this week are Elliott bellman and

Shirley Tay our supervising producer is

Yan Chi Xu with visual editor Maggie

Duncan Erinn Hayes audio engineer Travis

McMillan is director I'm Jayson McClure

thanks for tuning in