Marc Andreessen & Andrew Chen Talk Creative Computers

Summary

本视频剧本探讨了人工智能和加密货币等新兴技术所引发的道德恐慌，以及这些技术如何推动社会变革。讨论了游戏行业如何成为技术创新的前沿，包括AI在游戏开发和多媒体内容创造中的潜在影响。强调了开放源代码在AI发展中的重要性，并展望了游戏行业及其相关领域的未来，预测将出现更多由创始人驱动的、具有持久愿景和激进产品路线图的公司。

Takeaways

• 🌐 世界在变化，技术如人工智能(AI)和加密货币正在不断发展，尽管伴随着道德恐慌和质疑。
• 🔒 学术界正在探索如何突破现有技术限制，以促进创新，而不是仅仅限制它们。
• 🎮 游戏行业是技术革新的前沿，例如GPU和3D技术最初都源于游戏行业。
• 👨‍👧 家庭生活中，共同的游戏体验可以加强亲子关系，同时促进学习。
• 📈 技术悲观主义者往往因为对新事物的恐惧和不理解而持保守态度，但历史上的道德恐慌很少成真。
• 🛠️ 技术工具无论好坏，都将对社会产生影响，重要的是我们如何使用它们。
• 💡 创新往往源于个人对技术的热爱和对改进现有产品的热情。
• 📊 政府在推动大型创新项目方面的能力已经减弱，现代的创新更多来自私营部门。
• 🚀 成功的创业公司往往需要超越初期的成功，建立起能够长期发展和创新的机构。
• 🌐 游戏行业正处在技术、商业模式和应用领域的交汇点，预示着新的变革。
• 🛑 过度监管可能会阻碍创新，如核能行业所示，而适度的监管可以促进健康发展。

Q & A

为什么当前世界对人工智能(AI)和加密货币等技术存在巨大的道德恐慌?

新技术的出现往往会伴随着所谓的道德恐慌，人们担心这些新事物会对社会秩序造成破坏，甚至毁灭世界。这种现象在历史上对每项新技术的出现都有所体现，如电力照明、自行车、视频游戏等。当前对AI和加密货币的恐慌也是这种历史模式的延续。

为什么说AI是一种全新的计算机类型?

传统的计算机是确定性的，需要精确的指令来执行任务，而AI代表了一种概率性的计算机，它可以基于概率生成不同的答案和内容，这种特性使得AI在创造性方面展现出与传统计算机完全不同的能力。

在游戏行业中，为什么说现在的世界已经改变，并且正在改变?

游戏行业已经从单一的软件销售模式转变为提供长期、持续增长的平台模式，这些平台可以不断增加用户、内容和体验。此外，新技术的应用，如在线体验、用户生成内容、AI等，使得游戏体验更加丰富和复杂。

为什么游戏行业对于创业者来说是一个有吸引力的领域?

游戏行业不仅可以提供娱乐和商业上的成功，还因其在应用新技术方面的前沿地位，为创业者提供了广阔的创新空间。此外，游戏行业的成功企业可以基于早期的成功建立起长期、有远见的产品研发路线图。

为什么说游戏行业可能会对教育和其他领域产生影响?

游戏行业拥有将复杂和吸引人的元素结合在一起的能力，这种能力可以应用于教育和其他领域，创造出既有趣又有效的学习体验。例如，通过游戏化的方式，可以使学习变得更加吸引人和有效。

为什么说娱乐不仅仅是无关紧要的小事?

娱乐是生活的重要组成部分，它为人们提供了乐趣和享受，有助于提高生活质量。游戏、电影等娱乐形式是人们生活中不可或缺的，它们可以带来快乐和放松。

为什么说健康护理行业需要像游戏一样吸引人?

健康护理行业需要转型，从被动治疗转变为主动健康。这意味着需要创造出能够鼓励和支持人们健康生活方式的系统，而这种系统需要像游戏一样具有吸引力，能够激发人们的兴趣和参与度。

为什么说新技术可能会使现有的产品或服务变得过时?

技术的重大转变可能会导致全新的产品或服务模式出现，这些新模式可能会完全改变市场和用户需求，使得现有的产品或服务无法满足新的市场需求，从而变得过时。

为什么创业者需要构建自己的政策团队和政治项目?

随着公司的成长和行业的发展，创业者可能会面临政策和监管方面的挑战。构建政策团队和政治项目可以帮助公司更好地应对这些挑战，保护公司的利益，并在政策制定过程中发出自己的声音。

为什么说AI的发展需要开源?

开源可以为AI的发展提供灵活性和创新的动力。通过开源，更多的人可以访问和使用AI技术，促进技术的改进和新应用的创造。此外，开源也有助于防止大型公司对技术的垄断。

为什么说AI技术的发展可能会带来新的艺术形式?

AI技术具有创造性，能够生成新的内容和体验。这种创造性可能会催生出与传统电影、游戏不同的新型艺术形式，这些形式可能会更加个性化、互动化，为用户提供全新的体验。

Outlines

00:00

🌏 世界变革与技术恐慌

本段讨论了世界不断变化的现实，以及围绕人工智能和加密货币等新兴技术的道德恐慌。演讲者表达了对技术突破的兴奋，特别是对AI的看法，认为它是一种全新的计算机平台，将彻底改变我们对技术的理解。同时，提到了与Mark的初次会面，以及随后与他的儿子JJ在游戏上的共同兴趣，展现了技术在个人生活中的作用。

05:01

🎮 游戏作为技术进步的催化剂

此段深入探讨了游戏行业如何成为技术创新的温床，举例说明了GPU和3D技术的发展与游戏行业的关系。演讲者分享了他与儿子在游戏上的亲子互动，以及游戏如何成为教育和学习的工具，特别是在数学、物理和计算机科学方面。此外，还讨论了游戏行业的市场现象，以及它如何推动技术迅速普及至大众市场。

10:02

📚 技术悲观主义与历史视角

在这一段中，演讲者讨论了新技术伴随的道德恐慌现象，举例说明了从电灯到自行车，再到视频游戏，每项技术的出现都曾引起社会恐慌。他指出，尽管存在恐慌，但历史证明，大多数新技术最终都为社会带来了积极的影响。此外，还提到了不同代际对技术的不同态度，以及这种态度如何影响社会对新技术的接受程度。

15:04

🔍 政府在技术创新中的角色

本段探讨了政府在推动技术创新方面的作用，对比了历史上的曼哈顿计划和阿波罗计划与现代的加州高速铁路项目，指出政府在大型项目中的效率和执行力已经大不如前。演讲者认为，由于顶尖人才更倾向于在私营部门工作，政府难以复制过去的成功。此外，还讨论了政府监管对创新的潜在负面影响，尤其是在核能领域的例子。

20:04

🛠️ 创业者的政治参与与政策倡导

此段强调了创业者在政治参与和政策倡导方面的重要性。演讲者提到，尽管创业者的主要职责是建立公司，但在某些情况下，特别是在面对行业特有的监管挑战时，建立政策团队和政治计划是必要的。举例说明了大型科技公司如何通过游说活动来巩固其市场地位，以及新兴公司如何需要对抗这种不平等的竞争环境。

25:04

🎨 游戏行业的创新与挑战

本段讨论了游戏行业的创新机会和所面临的挑战，特别是AI技术如何影响游戏开发和用户体验。演讲者指出，游戏行业不仅要关注娱乐价值，还要注意其在全球市场中的定位和政策环境。同时，强调了游戏行业的创新不仅限于游戏本身，还包括了用户生成内容和元宇宙等新兴平台的发展。

30:05

🧠 AI作为新型计算机的崛起

在这一段中，演讲者将AI视为一种新型计算机，它与传统的确定性计算机不同，是一种概率性计算机，能够创造和生成内容。他讨论了AI的这种创造性如何引发了一系列哲学和实践上的讨论，以及AI在商业和客户服务中的应用，例如航空公司和汽车销售的案例。此外，还提到了对AI进行'越狱'的兴奋，以及对AI未来发展的乐观态度。

35:06

🏗️ 平台转变与创业机会

此段探讨了技术转变时的创业机会，特别是当平台发生根本性变化时，旧有的产品和商业模式可能会变得过时。演讲者通过Photoshop和AI图像编辑的比较，说明了在新平台世界中，传统的图像编辑方式可能会被AI生成的图像完全取代。同时，讨论了大型AI模型和小型本地模型的潜在市场，以及开放源代码在AI发展中的重要性。

40:08

🌟 投资游戏行业的战略与愿景

本段中，演讲者分享了对游戏行业的投资战略和愿景，包括对游戏作为长期平台的看重，以及技术进步如何为游戏行业带来新的机会。他还提到了创业者的动机和目标，以及a16z如何支持这些创业者建立持久且有影响力的公司。此外，还讨论了游戏行业在教育和健康等领域的潜在应用。

45:08

🎉 游戏行业的未来与创业者的角色

在最后一段中，演讲者对游戏行业的未来进行了展望，强调了创业者在塑造这一未来中的关键作用。他希望看到游戏公司能够成为具有远见和创新精神的独立机构，能够进行大规模的技术开发和产品规划。同时，也提到了娱乐的价值，以及游戏在提供乐趣和积极生活体验中的重要性。

Keywords

💡人工智能（AI）

人工智能是指由人造机器所表现出来的智能，它能够执行通常需要人类智能才能完成的任务，如视觉识别、语言理解等。在视频中，AI被看作一种全新的计算机形态，具有创造性和概率性，能够生成内容和提供不同的答案，这与以往的确定性计算机形成对比。例如，Alaska Airlines使用AI进行客户服务，AI创造性地为顾客提供了不存在的慰问政策。

💡加密货币

加密货币是一种基于密码学原理的数字货币，它通过分布式账本技术，如区块链，来确保交易的安全性和匿名性。视频中提到了围绕AI和加密货币的巨大道德恐慌，这表明了这些新兴技术在社会中的争议性和影响力。

💡虚拟现实（VR）

虚拟现实是一种计算机技术，可以创建和体验虚拟环境，使用户沉浸其中。视频中提到VR作为游戏行业的一个例子，说明技术如何推动新体验的发展，并且VR和AR（增强现实）是当前明显的杀手级应用。

💡平台转变

平台转变指的是技术或商业模式发生根本性变化，导致原有平台被新的平台所取代。视频中提到，像Photoshop加上AI图像编辑与Mid Journey或Dolly这样的平台转变，将会彻底改变我们对图像编辑的认识。

💡道德恐慌

道德恐慌是指社会对某一新技术或现象的集体担忧和反对，通常伴随着对其潜在负面影响的过度关注。视频中讨论了新技术如AI和加密货币所引发的道德恐慌，以及历史上对电灯、自行车等的类似反应。

💡游戏化

游戏化是指将游戏设计元素、游戏思维和游戏机制应用于非游戏场景，以提高参与度和动机。视频中提到游戏技能和心态可能被应用于教育、健康等领域，创造出既有趣又有效的新体验。

💡自适应系统

自适应系统是指能够根据环境变化或用户行为进行自我调整的系统。在视频中，AI被描述为一种自适应系统，能够根据用户的输入生成不同的输出，这种概率性计算机与传统的确定性计算机不同。

💡开源

开源指的是软件的源代码可以被公众查看、修改和增强的软件许可模式。视频中强调了开源在AI领域的重要性，它允许更广泛的社区参与创新，并有助于防止大型技术公司对技术的垄断。

💡技术转型

技术转型涉及到技术的根本性变化，通常会导致行业格局的重塑。视频中讨论了游戏行业如何通过在线体验、用户生成内容、AI等技术转型，从而创造出全新的游戏体验和商业模式。

💡创新

创新是指创造新的或改进现有的方法、产品或服务。视频中提到了创新在游戏行业中的重要性，以及如何通过创新来开发新的游戏形式、教育工具和健康解决方案。

💡平台游戏

平台游戏是一种视频游戏类型，玩家通常控制一个可以在屏幕上跳跃和移动的角色，以完成各种关卡。视频中提到了像Minecraft和Roblox这样的平台游戏，它们不仅仅是一次性的体验，而是可以长期增长和扩展的平台。

Highlights

世界已经发生了变化，并且正在持续变化，我们尝试进一步改变它。

围绕人工智能和加密货币存在巨大的道德恐慌。

学者们正在尝试破解这些技术，我对此感到非常兴奋。

AI是一种新型的计算机，需要我们重新定义它的概念。

与儿子JJ共享的游戏体验和连接。

游戏行业是许多先进技术的发源地，如GPU和3D技术。

VR和AR是目前明确的杀手级应用，特别是在游戏领域。

技术悲观主义者往往听起来更世故和明智，而乐观主义者则面临挑战。

技术道德恐慌的历史，每个新技术都曾被认为是邪恶的。

年轻一代将如何影响技术和社会的发展。

政府在技术创新中的角色正在改变，私营部门成为主要的创新驱动力。

对监管的过度反应可能抑制创新，核能行业是典型例子。

创业者应如何面对政策挑战和监管问题。

游戏行业特别需要关注AI等新技术的发展。

AI的兴起可能导致现有产品和行业的彻底变革。

开放源代码在AI发展中的重要性。

a16z对游戏行业的投资理念和对未来的展望。

游戏行业作为技术应用的前沿，对其他领域的潜在影响。

教育和健康领域可能会借鉴游戏行业的互动和参与方式。

对未来游戏行业及其技术影响的期待和愿景。

Transcripts

our assessment is basically that the

world has changed and the world has

changed is changing and we're going to

try to change it further now there's you

know enormous moral Panic around Ai and

another one around crypto and so forth

and so it's just this constant kind of

barrage of of negativity so all these

academics now trying to figure out how

to jailbreak these things and I just get

so excited I'm just I'm just like I'm

cheering on the jailbreaks I'm just so

excited like the last thing I want is

these things locked down like I want

these things to be out there like doing

all kinds of crazy stuff when I look at

AI what I see is sort of a new kind of

computer but every once in a while you

get a you get a platform shift that's

like dramatic enough where it basically

means that you you both kind of can and

have to reinvent from scratch the whole

idea of what the thing is in the first

place Mark I I don't know if if you

remember the first time we met actually

uh but we actually had a conversation

about

zingga you know because it was during

the the whole Facebook platform we had

we had lunch at hobes this was like your

your favorite spot in in in palto many

years later actually we were just

talking about this uh you and your son

JJ have continued to have gaming as part

of part of your part of your experience

part of your life that that you share

and so tell us about what what what you

guys do together and kind of your

connection to gaming I've got an

8-year-old uh just turned nine actually

on Sunday um his his birthday present

was a brand new razor gaming laptop uh

and he levitated right out of his little

shoes um so he's currently glued to it

uh it was actually very impressed they

got the 16-in screen because we want it

to be portable but they have screens now

up to I think they have one up to like

20 Ines now so I'm sure that that'll be

next year's present um so um yeah look I

mean for those of you who don't have

kids the great thing about having kids

is that uh you as a parent you get to

just like buy all the stuff that you

always wanted as a kid um and uh you you

you do it under you know the cover of

like oh yeah you know this is for the

kid um and then you bring it home and

then you take it out and then you and

then you you just you know basically

play with it he's been through four

waves of of of gaming enthusiasm and by

the way these endure they're they're

actually all enduring he goes back to

the all but Minecraft was the first one

um and then Roblox

and then kbal space program and by the

way we we're homeschooling and so he's

doing like a ton of like along with this

like a lot of math and and and physics

and computer science and Rocket design

you know with his science teacher and

stuff like that so like herbal space

programs turns out to be just like

incredibly good for that and then um and

then now recently factorio um and so he

is building Empires on alien planets

fighting bugs so I'm I'm holding back on

that what's the new game is it uh hell

divers hell divers 2 I'm holding back on

Hell divers 2 for the moment but um I I

will admit I have the little the as L

it's just a matter of

time well and gaming is you know um such

a instrumental part of a lot of people's

sort of personal experience with with

technology and Computing um and and many

folks get into into Tech you know many

of my friends because they were you know

pirating games uh you know trying to get

work around all the shareware um you

know restrictions in the 90s or you know

kind of the the all the modern versions

of that and one of the interesting

things that's been observed is that you

know gaming as an industry is is where a

lot of these kind of alpha nerd

Technologies whether it's gpus or 3D or

avatars have been created what do you

think of as kind of the canonical

example of that um in your mind and and

why do you think this happens kind of in

in in the games industry in particular

yeah yeah this is a really a super old

Trend and so this this probably goes all

the way back to probably space War uh

which was like one of the first video

games that was on I think time like time

sharing mainframes back in like 19 1960

or something so black and white you're

playing it at University kind of thing

right yeah like basically the minute you

got interaction Computing you

immediately got Gam

um and then you know of course pong

early on it's hard to remember like what

a big breakthrough that was at the time

it's like in the early '70s basically it

was even pre-personal Computing I think

is the idea of having a video an arcade

an arcade game machine um and right The

Story Goes that Nolan Bushnell you know

built this founder Atari built built the

first pong game and he put it in a pizza

parlor Mountain View um and the owner of

the pizza parlor called him up a day

later and it's like yeah this thing's

broken you know it's piece of junk get

this thing out of here and he goes in

and of course the problem is it's so

jammed with quarters that it literally

physically can't take quarters anymore

um and so yeah there's this there's this

this's this recurring phenomenon I I

think it's a bunch of things I think one

is just like you know it's it's as we

say it's sort of I don't know uh use the

term sometimes founder market fit um you

know or people building for themselves

um and so people who are super into

computers you know tend to love gaming

and they tend to want to build great

games you know I think another part is

just the the sort of the both the need

and the opportunity to kind of really

Jam the throttle forward on on what the

raw capability is of whatever the

technology is remember when 3D

acceleration was new the minute you had

that as a core capability it was just

like what's the most sophisticated

possible 3D game you could build and

that happened before like all you

started doing like CAD Cam and all these

other things there's also a great thing

about it which is game game games are

mass Market phenomenon um especially

these days and so it lets you drive

price points down right it gives you

like a direct sort of path like a real

path uh to be able to take whatever the

new capability is and drive it to the

mass Market super fast and I I I full I

fully expect this trend to continue and

it's obviously what we're seeing with

with AI right now yeah with AI by the

way also mixed I mean look mixed reality

you yeah VR VR VR both VR and AR like

it's it's it's Crystal Clear the known

killer apps right now are games like by

by a very wide margin yeah well it seems

like so much of VR has been marketed as

sort of productivity and being able to

do meetings and you know so on but all

the data is saying that it's sort of you

know High School High super high

retention it's all it's all you know

kids basically playing social social

multiplayer yeah you know gaming well

it's actually two it's two tiers like

it's the G it's the game games you know

to the EXT and then it's the right and

then it's the social the social gaming

environment but it's specifically right

it's specifically the social gaming

environments not just social

environments yes yes the games are key

to the experience that's right so so

everyone in the audience has uh has read

your your techno Optimist Manifesto you

you had to write it because obviously

most people for whatever reason don't

seem to be optimists today why are there

so many self-hating technologists like

what what is the sort of um uh sort of

root cause thank you yes yeah so so look

so there's this recurring phenomenon in

the history of of of new technologies

which is every new technology tends to

come with what's called called a moral

Panic right and so a moral Panic is

basically this term for basically

there's a new thing and so therefore

it's evil and bad and it will destroy

the world um and and if you go back in

time it's basically every single new

technology and so like there was a huge

controversy over the introduction of

electric lighting because it was going

to like you know completely disturb

nature there was huge controversy around

bicycles bicycles were a super

controversial technology when they first

came out because it was the first time

young people could actually Voyage to

like could easily get to like nearby

towns and Villages for dating purposes

and that really like upset people um the

uh actually the magazines at the time

this like 1860s 1870s the popular

magazines at the time actually had this

thing they they did this whole moral

Panic around they this thing called

bicycle face um and there those articles

about how if you got on a bicycle and

rode it uh you you the exertion required

would cause your face you know to

scrunch up and then and then and then if

you run the bicycle too long your face

would freeze like that um and then you

know looks not K there was a massive

moral Panic around video games I mean it

was just it was super clear I mean it's

just super clear like first person

shooters you know especially when when

that Coline tragedy happened it's when

you know that whole thing went just like

completely PA shaped but it was this

like incredible incredible thing of like

we're training an entire generation of

killers and of course what happened was

video games took off and actually you

know for the for the next 30 Years uh

actual you know violent crime in the US

actually dropped Like a Rock so if

anything the correlation was the reverse

uh and so there's just this tendency and

now now there's you know enormous moral

Panic around Ai and another one around

crypto and so forth and so it's just

this constant kind of barrage of of

negativity and I think it's just

something you know I don't know it's

it's like I guess a fair-minded person

would say it's like fair enough you know

the thing with new Technologies is they

they actually do change the social order

you know they do actually change how

Society works and so you know maybe

there should be some societal kind of

screening mechanism for kind of deciding

whether these new technologies are good

ideas or not and so maybe that's the

generous explanation the sort of

ungenerous explanation is just people

panic and freak out and look and then it

always sounds more sophisticated to be

negative than positive right it's like

the positive person gets accused of

being polanish and wide-eyed and you

know immature and you know you know not

cynical enough and then the pessimistic

person always sounds world you know

World weary and wise and these are just

like constant scops and they're just

like constant scops being kind of played

on us and by us and at us and then you

know look there's there's a choice and

this is you know why I wrote that wrote

the manifesto like then there's a choice

of like how we think about these things

right um and you know it's really easy

to let people talk you into thinking

that something bad is happening or

you're doing something bad or there's

something dangerous and it's you know it

takes real force of will to go up

against that and say no actually this is

going to be this is actually going to be

really good and and it's and by the way

it's not that new technologies don't

have negative consequences like you know

new technologies are tools and they're

going to have both negative and positive

consequences but there's just such a

rich history of the moral Panic

predicted societal doom and then it

actually turned out everything you know

overwhelmingly on net was fine and I I

think that will continue to be what

happens and and you you studied this

quite closely it it seems like it's

unusual to me that that the moral Panic

not only is originating in you know um

uh places outside of tech but weirdly

like inside of tech as well you know

which is which is my point about the

self-hating technologists like you know

like like why why is that a thing oh the

Millennials um

no no no

genz Millennials the genz yes gen Z gen

Z has to save us um you know I think

there actually is a little bit of a

generational thing to it you know the

Boomers were like super socially

activated you know in the 60s and 70s

with like you know the anti-war protest

at the time and the hippie movement and

everything and got like super into like

you know politics and super animated and

then you know Jen I'm Gen X and Gen X we

were all sort of cynical and Blas we

were like the reverse of of the Boomers

we were like uh we were just like

disengaged and we were Slackers um and

we we weren't going to we weren't going

to take this stuff seriously uh and then

the Millennials you know look the

Millennials just activated like they

activated what have Millennials

experienced 2001 you know 911 2008

financial crisis you know 2016 let's

just say a dramatic change in American

politics um and so yeah so the the

Millennials are just activated um and

our industry is a very large number of

very young people who are very smart

very idealistic uh very hardworking very

conscientious very motivated and they

they just and they tend to take things

really seriously and it's the superpower

of of that as a set and but it's also

they take lots of things too seriously

um and so I you know there's just a

broader kind of thing going on I I think

gen Z is going to be fascinating and

then the generation after it there's

this interesting book by this

psychologist named Jee twinge and she

goes through all the kind of charts of

like all the behavior and it's actually

the Gen Z is actually looking is looking

quite a bit different in a number of

respects um and then you know the kids

coming up behind it's going to be weird

so if you grew up pre-

internet like there's one everybody's

eyes like oh social media is really like

you know basically screwing around with

the kids and it's like well I don't know

like actually the person most prone to

be really screwed around with social

media would seem to me to be somebody

with no mimetic defenses at all which is

like a boomer right and so you take like

somebody raised on Like Walter kronite

and you like inject them onto Facebook

and like right you know they have no

ability to cope with it whatsoever right

um you know Millennials are kind of in

the middle you know Gen X Millennials

you know I'm still you know Gen X was

like pre- internet right um and so you

know we're still acclimated everything

point being like gen Z and then you know

the Gen whatever it's going to be called

The Generation my son is in like gen

alpha or whatever it's going to be

called you know they're they're just

going to grow up having had like

basically the full diet of like crazy

internet basically scop basically pop

politics just crazy Bonkers bananas like

stuff coming in you know the the level

of sophistication the kids have around

like memes you know is just off sharts

right um and so new generations are

going to be like much better at dealing

with this whole media politics you know

kind of Matrix is kind of unfolding um

so yeah well you also have I mean I

think growing up you know in the

internet now you also have like an

infinite platter of subcultures that you

can you can be part of and you know and

that's that's a lot of you know very

independent uh you know viewpoints

compared to a world where we have you

know the X number of uh you know

approved new sources and you know and so

on yeah um you know in your essay you

you talk um quite a lot about some of

the negative impacts of overregulation

and what's happened in nuclear and of

course the current current ongoing

discussion about about AI um now in the

past we've seen the government actually

um sponsor these very big innovation Pro

you know projects whether you're you

know talking about NASA or um what what

does a modern kind of Protek political

position actually you know look like and

what what's the right way to engage

government in in all this yeah so people

look back you know this movie

appenheimer that just swept the Oscars

which is of course extraordinary movie

you know tells sort of the Manhattan

Project story um and then there's you

know the famous Apollo project you know

people look back on that and my friend

Peter in particular looks back on those

projects and says wow like those were

kind of great achievements you know

going to the moon and you know winning

World War II and like and you had this

like massive government organized top

down you know Oppenheimer General Groves

like you know military project you know

they build new cities in like three days

and you know they get all the world's

leading physicists in one place and

everybody's you know working on a single

goal and it's just this amazing

achievement and it's like why can't we

do that anymore and and and with that

sort of the deeper question is why can't

the government do that anymore and the

answer is just like I that was an

artifact of its time um in particular

you know the Manhattan Pro was in the

40s Apollo was in the 60s Mo what modern

Venture Capital startups as we know and

understand it you sort of started in the

70s and so I I I think a big thing there

is just adverse selection uh the kinds

of people who can run projects like that

just don't work for the government

anymore um they're in the private sector

um and so it just that that Avenue is

not available and If if you need if you

need to reinforce your your views on

this just take a look at the California

highspeed Rail Project um which is now

10 billion it's over 10 billion in spend

um with uh zero ground broken like not

even an inch of highs speed it's like

the California highspeed rail prevention

program um and I think they're going to

spend like $100 billion doar and like

literally not building anything like

it's quite amazing well all these are

measured by cost per you know mile or

whatever and what happens when you

divide by zero divide PS exactly so well

and you know there's these Bart

extensions happening it's even San Jose

which is a more rational city than San

Francisco and I think it's up to like I

don't know the there's like this mov

it's like this Doppler effect where

every year that goes by you add like

another billion dollars to the cost and

then project out the dead you know the

the finished date another 3 years so

it's just this project that's just kind

of kind kind of go to infinity and so

like it's just I I just think those days

are over it's just not happening and so

what happens and by and by the way

anybody basically smart I've ever run

into in the government basically says

the same thing it's like the Pentagon

we're not going to build new weapon

systems in the Pentagon we're we're

going to it's going to be it's going to

be private sector and you know therefore

companies like andril uh are paler and

then the relationship between the

government and private sector is just

always a little bit fraught right

because there's basically two ways to

regulate things there's basically one

one way to regulate things is sort of

the traditional American Way which is um

you know everything is allowed except

that which is prohibited um is sort of

one approach to law and then there's

kind of the classic European approach

which is the opposite which is

everything is prohibited except for that

which is specifically permitted right

and if you the EU is just passing this

AI law right now it's going to be a

version of that right like if yes you

can do AI in the in in Europe if you get

approval from the government ahead of

time which they won't give you um and

then you know we applied that method in

the US for nuclear power right we we

basically decided that nuclear power was

prohibited by default right um the

nuclear power story is tremendously

illustrative of this so uh Richard Nixon

in the early 1970s implemented two

programs in parallel uh one was a a

program called project Independence uh

which was to build a thousand new

civilian nuclear power plants in the US

by the Year 1980 um and the goal you

know from the name project Independence

was for America to be energy independent

from the rest of the world so number one

to be able to pull completely out of the

Middle East like no more of that um and

then number two uh have like basically

infinite clean you know clean zero

carbon zero carbon emissions coming from

nuclear power plants um you'll notice

that didn't happen

um none of that happened um because his

other program was called the nuclear

Regulatory Commission um and their job

was to prevent that from happening um

and they did not approve a new nuclear

power plant designed for 40 years wow um

and so they they implemented sort of

again this this this other form and so

you know at that level it's like okay

then we're you know we're going to get

what we want um and you know we we as a

society have to decide which way we want

this to go um you know everything about

how the American government operates is

oriented towards trying to switch more

and more to the sort of classically

European model to try to you know

basically choke off avenues for for

private Innovation you know look a a lot

of people think that's you know those

ideas are good because you know the risk

like what if things go wrong but the you

know the consequences are very very

severe because it's logic if the public

sector can't do it the private sector is

not allowed to do it then it's not going

to happen and so look these These are

really big questions and of course it's

hard you know these are not super like

you know flashy issues that are easy for

a politician to get up in front of

people and talk about you know this

isn't going to draw as much press

attention ever you know as sort of the

the more politically sort of

inflammatory topics but you know this i'

say is a very serious underlying

topic how how do you think about when

founders read your

Manifesto um you know as soon as it came

out I mean you know there was such a

ground swell of of support and um you

know all the builders on social media

you know you know talking talking

through this and um how do you think

about what Founders can do or should do

if they if they agree with everything

that you're saying what's the next next

level after showing social media support

and then and then and and and and then

what after that yeah so first just look

this social media support is actually

super helpful so part of is just like

what are people proud to stand for right

um and if if you know I don't know to

stand for something you have to be like

a renegade and you have to be like ready

to just get attacked by everybody and to

just have all your friends think that

you're you know being stupid or evil

like that that's hard for people and so

the the more people who actually stand

up and basically say that they have that

they have a position the more socially

acceptable it is for everybody else to

do it um so that that you know that's

one um two is you know I I wouldn't

encourage Founders to get super involved

in in politics because Founders have

full-time jobs but you know there there

are politicians who are on who are more

on the right side of these things and

others and you know they're worth

supporting um and we have a we we we

we've launched sort of a really

ambitious political program uh in the

last year because we we've just had it

with people basically taking free shots

on goal on startups and so um we're

trying to support a lot of the

politicians on the right sides of these

issues and I think that's something that

people might might choose to do um and

then third is look at at some point like

especially if you're an IND industry

where you're going to run into this kind

of thing you know I think it is worth

thinking about it you know not for the

first few years but as your company gets

built out I mean I I think more more

companies especially more young

companies um in in our industry are

going to have to step up and like build

policy groups policy teams and political

programs and have packs and and you know

have put real effort into this quite

honestly I mean part of what's happening

is Big Tech is against us um there

there's a basically a lot of the

political issues now are a civil war

inside the tech industry where the big

tech companies are lobbying very

aggressively for what they regulatory

capture so they're lobbing very

aggressively to have basically laws and

rules that only they can comply with um

you know because they've got Legions of

you know lawyers and and and compliance

people and so forth to be able to comply

with you know all kinds of complicated

rules they're in Washington you know all

the time and have been for several years

now basically lobbying to have

regulatory barriers such that they can

function uh but startups can't um and I

think more more more young companies are

just going to have to confront that

directly yeah well and and I think in in

the games industry in particular it's

it's a it's an interesting one because I

think you know many of the folks here

many of the folks in the audience are

are you know they're like oh I'm I'm I'm

part of this industry that's just about

making things that are fun like all the

stuff seems so far away and you know I

think one of the things that I would

remind everyone of is like look you know

everything that's happening in the games

industry around AI is going to

absolutely affect you know all of us

it's also gaming as a global industry so

you're already seeing a lot of

interesting things happening in the

geopolitical sphere um you know how

active can you know a tensent or a net

or you know one of those be and you know

how easy or hard is it to um launch the

products in in Europe there's a whole

number of kind of consumer safety

Provisions you know you were just

talking about and then you know and then

a lot of the most interesting new

platforms like um you know ufn and

Roblox which are user generated you know

content platforms you know all all the

metaverse work that's also happening as

well um you know all of those kind of

fall into user generated you know this

whole War that's happened o over over

social media and user generated content

because you know in the end it's like as

soon as users are get to actually make

things

and express you know how they feel then

then all of a sudden it's it's not it's

not that different from from social

media so I I actually you know I think

one one of the most interesting things

about the games industry is that it's

actually I think a lot of the issues um

you know Mark that you mentioned in the

manifesto are actually quite close as

issues in the industry it's not it's not

like a far away thing yeah and and there

are gaming companies that have hit this

stuff directly uh in the past um yeah

social media companies all thought that

they were creating like fun things for

people to play like Twitter is what what

did your cat have for breakfast and if

you were like a fan of Twitter you'd be

like wow it's great to be able to talk

about my cat had for breakfast and if

you thought Twitter otherwise you just

thought Twitter was stupid because it

didn't matter when it it was irrelevant

well my favorite example is Facebook got

just tons of you know it's just like

this is the most trivial stupid useless

you know thing that doesn't matter you

know Facebook there was almost a deal

for Facebook to get bought by Yahoo

early on and I remember a certain very

prominent tech journalist um might be

flogging a book right now um uh said at

the time she said she said Mark

Zuckerberg should take the billion

dollar Yahoo deal you know and Facebook

stes worth like 1.2 trillion so she said

Facebook should take the the billion

doll Yahoo acquisition quote and and and

run away as fast as his little flip

flops can carry him um right um and and

it was just like her just like absolute

dismissal that this stuff would ever

matter and then basically within like

five years it was like Facebook is like

the living demon incarnate on Earth and

destroying everything right it went from

like useless to evil in one step right

you know the headline you never it's

never just like oh this is kind of cool

right like that's never the story like

this is kind of useful some people like

it it's either like pointless or

evil um

and so and there there look there is is

a history in games like this and a lot

gaming companies in the past have been

through this and so yeah it's worth it's

worth at least paying attention to if

you were like uh you know hypothetically

you were exiled for a few years and you

had a team of you know a couple dozen

people to to work on any any problem of

your choosing um you know what what area

would you would you end up so I should

start by saying I have not pressure

tested the following idea at all I

haven't done any of the things that we

require our Founders to do before we

fund them uh in terms of actually

thinking anything through so this is

just me cting because I'm not I'm not

going to do it there is something I

think super super fascinating at the

it's it's at the it's at the convergence

point of let's just say immersive

entertainment or experiences and you

know and I think VR AR is one version of

that but also just like immersive worlds

um on traditional screens um the

intersection of that and then and then

and then the intersection with with with

AI you know we're doing a lot of work in

AI a lot of work in gaming a lot of work

in media and so I I spend a lot a fair

amount of time talking to folks in

gaming you know thinking about Ai and

games I spend also a fair amount of time

in in um talking to people in like the

entertainment industry about like AI in

movies and you know TV and things like

that and of course that's you know quite

controversial already um the Assumption

in a lot of these conversations just oh

AI is a new way to create game assets or

AI is a new way to do special effects in

movies and I I kind of Wonder it's like

actually is there actually a new art

form here right that's actually not a

game and not a movie but like it's

something in the middle and it's

something that basically it's like an

experience that's like totally tailored

to the user an experience that never

ends everything is generated on the Fly

you know with a level sort of synergy

but synergistic kind of you know

feedback loop between between the user

and the system um and you know the

metaphor some people have used for this

is you know you know dreams like is is

there is there like a new medium here

which is basically creating dreams it

seems kind of obvious because if you can

if you if an AI can basically learn and

generate content then that seems like a

straightforward thing but what's

interesting is like there there is no

that's not a movie it's a very different

than a movie because by the way it might

go for 5,000 hours right um and it might

be seated by a human creative but you

know it might then it might then be very

uh you know related to specific user

movies aren't like that it might be like

a game but it's also not quite a game

because maybe you're not playing it

maybe you're experiencing it or maybe

it's you know maybe it's some other you

react to it or live in it in a uh in a

different way and there's there's no

precedent for this there's no model

there's no company that does this the

movie studios aren't going to do it

because they they just make movies the

game Studio companies aren't going to do

it because they make games and so I

think there might be something new oh

and then of course and then of course

you know there's the single player

version but then there's of course the

mind-blowing you know ones which are the

multiplayer massively you know massively

multiplayer dreams like what is that

right right yeah I think I think the new

the new form formats are definitely

interesting always because you could

imagine when you know uh user generated

content and getting content online when

YouTube comes out um in uh uh you know

gets popular in 2005 2006 you might have

thought oh well one day all the you know

content creators are going to make

movies and put them on YouTube but

that's actually not what happened you

know they actually ended up making all

these uh you know Vlogs and all these

shows and um you know all these sort of

new native formats that exist only on on

on YouTube um and then it turns out that

watching you know an hour of uh you know

10c you know uh video clips is actually

more engaging than the the the Hollywood

format you know of that and so in I

think in the same way just as uh it

might be easy to think about um just

cost savings for um for for for gaming

from AI that that you know doing

something that's completely a new format

like like what you're talking about sort

of sort of feels like that that that's

the new category my my nine-year-old

games and and then YouTube YouTube

videos about games you know is his

entire thing when he gets screen time

and so um he just like I used to ask you

want to go watch a movie and I could see

in his head I could see him doing the

math of 90 minutes of movie versus 45

YouTube videos he's like

no so I finally created I've created a

movie club daddy Movie Club uh which is

Sunday at lunch um where we watch movies

and um uh he likes it once we start them

but like it's always on the way into the

living room he's kind of

like can I bring my laptop into the

movie with me

um and so yeah I think there there's a

lot of there's a lot of signals that

things are headed in this direction yes

let's let's talk about AI now um and and

something that obviously the whole the

whole firm and and yourself are spending

um a lot of time on um so people often

compare AI to just these big General

technologies that have emerged um you

know over the last few decades whether

it's mo mobile or Internet and in in in

what ways does Ai and everything that's

been happening remind you of some of the

prior waves versus you know what way is

it completely new different what's

happening with AI right now doesn't map

to any of those and and the reason is

because I when I look at AI what I see

is sort of a new kind of computer like a

fundamentally new kind of computer and

the way I would describe that this goes

to all of the by the way all the

controversi issues issues around AI also

which is um you know for 80 years we had

we've had a model of a computer which is

sort of this like super you know literal

thing that can like do math you know at

a trillion Cycles a second but like you

have to tell it specifically what to do

every single time and then you know and

we call these you know deterministic

computers where you know you tell it

exactly what to do it always gives you

the same answer it never you know it

always gives you the exact literal

answer um by the way if it doesn't give

you the right answer on something it's

because you screwed up right you you

programmed it wrong um uh when I use you

know llms or diffusion models or these

things it's it's like no I'm dealing

with a different kind of computer right

there's input there's output it's doing

things for me um but it's a

probabilistic computer and you have the

same question twice it gives you

different answers which is just in and

of itself a pretty mind-blowing thing um

and then you know there and then there's

the hallucination thing and and you know

the hallucination thing is like you know

it's this incredible thing because like

Engineers look at the hallucination

thing and they're like wow this is like

a crippling problem you know I can't

believe this thing is like making up

answers it doesn't know what the truth

is but if you if you put your kind of

creative hat on or talk to creative

people they're like well it's creating

right it's like you have a computer

that's creating things right and you get

into all these philosophical debates

about what the nature of creation is and

originality and all that but like it's

creating things um and sometimes the

things it creates are pretty funny um

and pretty entertaining these are these

are creative computers um and and you

know there's been all these examples

recently but I think it was Alaska

Airlines uh put one of these online as a

customer support bot a lot of airlines

have some bement policy where you can

get a refund for you can get free

flights to go to funerals or something

um and uh turns out Alaska Airlines

didn't have a bement policy but the the

llm felt sorry for the for the customer

so it made it made up a bement policy um

and promised him a refund on his ticket

um and then there was another case where

a GM dealership put up a sales chatbot

uh and it talked the customer to buying

a Tesla um

so and I see it's like Tes is a really

great car

um much more environmentally friendly so

if you're literal minded you look at

that you're horrified but if you're if

you're like if you put your creative hat

on you're like wow like this is like the

coolest thing I've ever seen I get

excited whenever anybody is is I love on

Twitter and you know there all these

academics now trying to figure out how

to jailbreak these things and I just get

so excited when I I've just I've just

like I'm cheering on the jailbreaks I'm

just so excited like the last thing I

want is these things locked down like I

want these things to be out there like

doing all kinds of crazy stuff I think

it's it's absolutely fantastic point is

like I think the metaphor if anything is

to like the creation of the

microprocessor or something it's it's

it's it's it's the it's the B the birth

of a new kind of computer by by the way

if you go back in history there there's

a great book on neural network which is

the foundational technology behind all

this was actually invented 80 years ago

in in 1943 amazing uh it's the first

neural network paper that basically

we're still we're still all of our work

today is is still derived from that um

there was actually a debate there was a

debate in the nent computer world in the

30s and early 40s when they were just

didn't get the stuff to start to work

and there was there was a whole school

of thought that said this what they call

vanoyan machines the sort of linear kind

of model was actually the wrong model

and that basically the Entire Computer

should have been built from scratch on a

model of the human brain and they had

basically this exact discussion back

then in sort of a very crude and simple

form and and and sort of History went

one way and now history's going to like

come back around and now now we have

both to choose from so I think now we're

going to live in a world where basically

you're going to have a proliferation of

AIS in the same way that you've had

microchips uh which is by the way

they're be paired basically I think

anything with a chip is going to have an

AI and you're just going to you just

basically you're just going to assume

that everything has an AI um and there's

going to be you know many billions of

tiny models running everywhere there's

going to be a few big God models in the

sky um and then there's going to be a

lot of stuff in the middle you know

being customized and tailored for all

kinds of all kinds of things to to what

extent do you think that um you know

when when the the web was created and

you know when when mobile apps were

created because there was this rush to

sort of redesign the the the user

interface um that that sort of allowed

uh you know new startups to sort of uh

be able to come into existence with the

mobile native way of doing things as

opposed to you know um the the prior

version and and in this it's interesting

in because the platforms are still kind

of the same and and so to what extent do

you think incumbents just have the upper

hand by just integrating AI features

into into their existing products versus

versus uh you know startups being able

to do something from scratch yeah so

this is the big thing that we always

think about inent this is big thing we

always think about day jobs and Venture

Capital which is like okay there's

certain technology shifts where the

incumbents can just add the new thing

and then there's really not an

opportunity for startups um and the

scenario here would be you know

Photoshop just adds AI photo editing and

you're done right it's just it's done

They just added it and they're done and

it's just the world world keeps going

with Adobe as the big company by the way

that's true for a lot of a lot of new

technologies I like that you just kind

of add the new thing and by the way even

mobile like there were some new mobile

companies like uber and uh and lift and

Airbnb and but you know look you know

Google and Facebook adapted to mobile

just fine like there there's no there's

no mobile search engine right that that

took over and one of the reasons

Instagram is so big is because Facebook

deliberately made it big by transferring

over a lot of the a lot of the usage and

so it turned out there wasn't an

independent startup opportunity there um

you know but every once in a while you

get a you get a platform shift that's

like dramatic enough where it basically

it basically means that you you both

kind of can and have to reinvent from

scratch the whole idea of what the thing

is in the first place and so the the

that would be literally you know that

would be like mid Journey right so so

Photoshop plus AI editing versus mid

Journey or dolly

um and and so in in in in the full

version of platform shift basically the

whole idea of Photoshop plus AI image

editing is just like you know at some

point just becomes completely irrelevant

like C can you believe people used to do

that you know people used to fiddle with

pixels like seriously um because you'll

live in this new world and in the new

world you'll just tell the machine what

you want for a photo for an image and

it'll generate you as many options as

you want and it's generating you

something that's better than you would

have been able to do anyway and like

you're totally happy and the whole idea

of fiddling with you know image pixels

is like writing a machine code or

something people still ride horses it's

just like for like Rich fancy people

like for fun right um and you know I you

know so you know in this scenario

someday people will still still do image

editing but it'll be like three like

weirdo designers in Norway or something

that you know we'll still be will'll

still be into this kind of thing or

graphic you know graphic designers in

their retirement um um and it'll just be

a new way of doing things right and then

basically our bet always is like we're

and we're you know when we make mistakes

it's because we kind of we kind of

overestimate the degree to which this is

going to happen um but but our whole

thing is to basically try to get in

front of this and try to you know

basically make the assumption that

you're going to have complete turnover

and look this has happened before like

there's an entire generation of

Mainframe software companies that turned

over that didn't exist anymore basically

once the PC came out a lot of the PC

software companies never adapted the web

a lot of those companies just went away

these kinds of shifts do happen they are

radical the the key question though is

like can you reinvent the entire product

like can can can you imagine like

basically just like the the old rules

don't apply anymore there's a completely

different way of doing the thing um and

and you know this certainly feels like

that just talking a little bit more

about kind of incumbents there's there's

sort of this thought that um you know

there there's a world in which which the

AI models are owned by a small number of

companies you know the the god models in

the in the Sky versus the version where

there are lots and lots of little things

and and I know you know um we've talked

quite a bit about kind of the the role

of Open Source you know potentially in

Ai and and it would be great to to hear

you expand on on that and kind of the

the importance of that you know the big

companies and this is you know this is

sort of what we call the sort of

incumbents tech companies doing Ai and

then what we call the new incumbents

which are like the companies that have

raised you know billions of dollars in

their new AI companies but they're

already incumbents um you know if you

listen to them you basically hear two

things number one is like obviously

everybody's only ever going to use the

big models um and and the reason for

that by the way is a very good argument

in that direction which is they're just

always going to have the best answers

right and and and and what what they

basically say is like look this Market's

going to be like the search Market was

like which is you know of course you're

always just going to ask Google log

search search like there's no market for

like you know vertical search engines in

all these different domains you just

Google just always gives you the best

search answer on almost every

practically everything um there there

was no it turned out there was no

startup opportunity to build to build

smaller search engines um and so it's

just obviously that everybody's just

going to run and everybody's going to

you know tap into a chat GPT or a CLA or

something or a Gemini through an API and

you know pay by the drink and that's the

way it's going to work and then of

course the other thing you hear from

those companies is AI is scary and evil

and needs to be regulated um and we need

this regulatory wall so that startups

can't function anyway and by the way we

should probably ban open source while

we're at it because that's also evil and

scary um so and you know it's sort of

interesting how those um uh those uh you

know kind of statements kind of you know

go together um look we're we're big

Believers in the exact opposite like I

said you know we're big Believers that

um there's just going to be such a giant

number of use cases specifically there's

be a giant number of like local use

cases um like you know your door knob is

going to have an llm in it that's going

to control whether or not people get

through the door right and like you are

you really going to do a round trip up

to the supercomputer and the cloud to do

that by the way you want to because do

you want the supercomputer in the cloud

knowing who's coming in and out of your

house right um and then just the cost

associated with that is going to be you

know it's going to be very expensive um

relative to what you could do with a

small model uh you in the doorknob and

by extension kind of in in everything

else and then yeah open source is

clearly a way to kind of give people the

flexibility to be able to implement Ai

and basically everything and we're yeah

we're very fired up about that and we're

as one example we're the major investors

in mrr which is you know at least right

now the leading ai ai open source

company y um and we're going to we're

going to fight hard to help them you

know succeed and have this model succeed

yeah I mean it's it's been it's been so

impressive to go from I remember you

know being at a point where we were all

just sending articles around um and you

know screenshots of things that we were

you know uh doing on chat gbt to all of

a sudden this being you know really like

the primary focus of the firm and and a

ton of ton of hiring a ton of new

efforts everything kind of you know

around that yeah I was just I'm just out

in the car trying to I was just before

this trying to close a deal we're in a

hot shoot shootout for a hot deal and

it's a video it's a related to video

it's just like wow the implications of

this like the entire nature of what

video is could change right just like

the entire Assumption of like what's in

a video and how it reacts to users like

the whole thing like you know one of

these things where you could imagine

looking back in a decade and being like

I can't believe people used to watch you

know static videos at all like it just

doesn't make any sense it's like

watching a silent movie obviously videos

should be like responsive in real time

you know and so it's like it's this kind

of thing where it's like you know the

entire world of anything everything

involving video might just like

completely change um so yeah awesome um

well I'll I'll uh I'll I'll wrap up with

one one or two kind of final questions

um you know one is uh talk to us about

how um you know when when we began um

you know doing more investing in games

and actually before I even showed up at

the firm I think we had invested in uh

in Zinga and Oculus and a couple others

I think Chris Dixon had pioneered a lot

of it but what was it that gave gave you

personally the conviction to take on

games as as as as as one of the as one

of the main areas for for a6z yeah then

there's a classic argument you'll hear

in Venture if you talk to VCS there a

classic argument you'll hear as to why

VC shouldn't invest in games it's

basically an artifact in my view of

later the ' 80s 90s 2000s period in

which it actually was pretty dangerous

to invest in games and the the the the

reason for it was just number one games

are sort of viewed as like hit as a you

know classic hit driven business and you

know and then the game would come out

and it would kind of if it succeeded it

would have like a revenue Arc that

looked like that right um like a movie

or something um and then there was just

economics that flowed from that that

basically said like the movie studios

make most of the money in movies the the

platform publishing companies uh like EA

make most of the money in games and so

there's really and and you know even if

you start a new startup studio and you

build a new game franchise it'll just

get bought by one of the platform

companies and there's not really much

upside you know to it um because of the

industrial logic of of distribution and

all those things and so um so just it

was like it was not considered kind of

to be a viable area for for Venture

investment for a long time um our

assessment is is basically that the

world has changed and and the world has

changed is changing and we're going to

try to change it further and I guess I'd

say so several things so one is you game

as you know package software that has

that you know looks like a movie versus

game as sort of permanent platform and

uh you know sort of foundation that then

you end up building 20 or 30 or 40 Years

of experiences on top of um and here

again it's just not and now now this is

getting more obvious because you know

you go right through my Minecraft Roblox

there's more and more examples where

like clearly this is happen you know

clearly this is exactly what's happening

um and so you know basically from a

business standpoint assets that can

actually grow on value for for for

decades and they can keep adding users

and keep adding content keep experiences

and keep broadening out so so one is and

that's totally that's totally Venture

Venture investable those those are great

businesses um so that's one two is

looked like all these other Technologies

kicking in and so the traditional game

industry was you know was was an

artifact historically of basically like

not being online right um you know and

even still today like you know a lot of

games that you buy like they may have

multiplayer mode but they're not really

built it's like full online experiences

but now you can build as like full

online experiences and you can take

advantage you know you can have real

economies you can have user generated

content platforms you can have you can

use AI um you you you know many many

many sort of ways to make these just

like a fundamentally more sophisticated

experience um and so there's sort of get

the benefit of all these technology

Innovations um and then I would say

third is just you know Founders this is

sort of the thing in the past is like a

lot of the great game designers of the

past you know it's like they just they

want they want they want to build a

they're a little bit like movie

directors they want to build a game they

want to get paid in cash um when they're

done building this game they want to

build another game it's probably a

different game um and fundamentally they

kind of want to work for a studio um

because that's that's where they get

you know our kind of found is not that

our kind of found wants to build a

product but then wants to build a bu and

wants to build a and wants to build

something that's going to be enduring

and expansive and have you know enormous

vision and become you know very big and

important in the world um and have a

giant R&D agenda and a you know very

aggressive you know product road map and

and and so forth and so and and then and

then run their own thing and then you

know be the CEO you know and actually be

in control of the whole thing we've been

very encouraged by the number of smart

people coming out of gaming who who want

that that's right that's right um

because because they see that in other

sectors of of software Tech and they

they want to do that and then we're also

helping you know we're trying to help

encourage that yeah well I mean and and

that's personally been one of the most

interesting things about you know

building the speedrun program is just

being able to use a marketing motion to

just discover all the founders that want

to work in you know game studios or

they're building infrastructure or

they're building Ai and and just the

enormous number of them that that you

know many of you know that um you know

last year when we when we put this out

there it was it was uh you know nearly

6,000 companies actually applied to be

part of of of the speedrun program and

we we anticipate this you know

continuing to grow and so there's just

you know a fantastic amount of um Talent

the other thing just the other thing is

very exciting for for me is you know I

mean look I think games as entertainment

are fantastic and they very socially

positive and productive and I love them

and it's great uh and it's fantastic um

but but also like you know we mentioned

earlier like the games are always on

like The Cutting Edge of applying new

technology yes I I also think like the

the skill set of what it takes to make

great games I think also more and more

it's just going to apply in many many

other domains like some people tried

this but like someday there's going to

be a great educational experience and

it's going to look and feel like a game

like that just seems like Crystal Clear

like you know the great health problems

of our time you know for the most if you

just look at the numbers the health

problems of our time are not like random

things that just happened to us the

great health problems of our time are

the consequences of our own behavior

right and so they they call metabolic

diseases um you know which is like you

know you're you know you're fat you're

lazy you don't get enough sleep um right

and then there's all this Downstream you

know diabetes and cancer and everything

that's heart attacks it's Downstream

from that um and so it's like it's very

clear that like the the whole world of

healthare Health Care is not oh

something's wrong I need to go to the

doctor and get it fixed the whole

healthare has to be transformed into I'm

I'm healthy my entire life because I'm

making myself healthy and that's a hard

thing to do and the system that supports

you in doing that is going to feel like

a game because it has to it has to be

engaging it has to be it has to be

something that you enjoy uh dealing with

and so like there's no question like

that's going to happen um and so there's

there's all of these other areas of life

and business I think that are going to

get transformed by this kind of

mentality and skill set and and riffing

on something that that you said before

in the past is uh you know we're we're

willing to spend a billion dollars

building you know Grand Theft Auto and

we're willing to spend hundreds of

millions of dollars to you know create

create a movie but when it comes to you

know what is the most amazing computer

science 101 right you know class you

know how much how much money are we

willing to put into that versus how much

you know amazing output do we get from

from you know potentially put you know

building something at that quality for

for something like this yeah it's

amazing you know look you the best in

the world and you know you guys all been

through this most of you think G gone to

college at least for one day before you

dropped out but um but uh you know the

muks like made this like super clear

right it's just like okay MIT TCS 101

like whatever that is it's just like oh

it's you know after whatever 200 you

know whatever amount of time they put

into trying to figure out it's just

still like you know dude in front of

chalkboard right like it's just like

like really like like really right and

so yeah so the the thought experiment

I'm always proposing in The Firm is like

what what's the model where you hire

Steven Spielberg to make CS 101 right

and it's like you know $200 million

production and it's like the most like

fantastically entertaining thing you've

ever seen that's be like the movie

version or you hire you know I don't

know you know John carac or somebody to

make uh you know to make uh to make that

sounds like it' be fun make the game

version of it right exactly like and

look it's just like could you afford to

do that it's like well you know look

like you just take the total number of

kids in the world that need to learn

computer science you know it's just like

the numbers at least in theory the

numbers they there you could make the

economics work um yeah so yeah people

have taken swings at this there have

been some early some you know some early

successes but no nobody's done the big

thing yet but I think somebody will yeah

absolutely yeah I hope so so uh talk

about what you hope you know a16z and

then also just you know honestly this

broader community of Founders is able to

accomplish in in in the games industry

in kind of the adjacent sectors like

what what does what does success look

like for you what what what are your

what's your aspiration for what happens

in the industry yeah look so I mean like

there's a lot of ways to think about it

you know look you know we talked a lot

about technological transformation um uh

we talked a lot about uh you know new

business models we talked a lot about

applying you know game methods you know

kind of outside of Gaming you know I

think those are all great and then again

I think entertainment I'm always always

like it's always like oh this you know

ENT entertainment is Trivial

entertainment is not trivial like we're

not supposed to go through life

depressed and like just like being like

drudged like oh God we're supposed to

have fun like we're like life is

supposed to be fun it's supposed to be

enjoyable we're supposed to have like

games and movies and and things that we

like to you know it's great right so we

would just love for there to be just to

be crystal clear that like the primary

opportunity for the best people in this

field is they can build they can build

companies and they can build companies

that you know are able to you know be be

independent they they're able to have

you know very distinct Visions uh you

know very radical ideas they're able to

build teams to execute against that and

and then really CR crucially like based

on their early success they're then able

to build themselves into institutions

that can really endure for a long time

and then have like extremely expansive

product road maps right I you know

example of this like fa you know

Facebook I told you the flip-flop story

earlier like you know Facebook's now in

a position you know Facebook's you know

spending you know on the order of 20

billion dollar a year on VR right like

he's worked him you know Mark has worked

himself into a position where he's able

to do that and the Google guys have been

able to do that in other areas like

self-driving cars and and you know now

and now ai and so when when these

companies get in position where they've

got like that kind of you know basically

Vision at the helm um and you know this

the sort of Founders and founding teams

at at the best of these companies and

then they and then they have their early

win like they can get in position where

they can start to really do really big

ambitious things um and so I I think in

in the my hope would be that the

companies the companies that that all of

you are doing that the result of that is

going to be a set of companies that are

going to be really World defining in the

decades ahead amazing let's give Mark a

hand good awesome thank you thank you

good thank you

[Music]