A guide to collaborative leadership | Lorna Davis

Summary

In this insightful talk, the speaker reflects on her journey from a 'heroic' leader to an advocate for radical interdependence. She emphasizes the ineffectiveness of the traditional hero-centric approach in today's complex world, advocating for a collaborative mindset that recognizes the need for collective effort to solve global challenges. Drawing from her experiences in the B Corp community and personal endeavors in wildlife conservation, she illustrates how setting shared goals, openness to co-creation, and valuing every individual's input can foster genuine collaboration and lead to impactful change.

Takeaways

• 😎 The speaker began as a new boss at Griffin's Foods in 1997, aiming to be a hero in the business world with a bold vision for the company's snacks.
• 📈 The speaker's initial call to action was for the company to be the snack of choice for every fourth Kiwi, emphasizing measurable results and control over the future.
• 👏 Despite receiving applause for the speech, there was no subsequent action, highlighting the gap between inspiration and execution.
• 🤔 The realization that leadership requires more than just being a figurehead; it requires understanding and articulating what others are expected to do.
• 🌐 The speaker advocates for 'radical interdependence' over the traditional hero narrative, emphasizing the need for collective effort in complex, interconnected systems.
• 💼 The B Corp community is highlighted as an example of businesses committed to being a force for good, with a rigorous certification process and a declaration of interdependence.
• 👗 The clothing industry example illustrates how companies like Patagonia and Eileen Fisher work together to reduce waste, showing interdependent leadership in action.
• 🌍 The idea of seeing a company as part of a larger system, from upstream suppliers to downstream consumers and the environment, is crucial for true collaboration.
• 🎯 Interdependent leaders set goals that are important but impossible to achieve alone, inviting others to co-create solutions to shared problems.
• 📢 Declaring goals before having a plan is a key approach of interdependent leaders, opening the door for collective brainstorming and support.
• 🤝 Meetings are redefined as collaborative spaces where ideas are shared and everyone's input is valued, rather than just a platform for the leader's speech.
• 🦏 The speaker's personal passion for rhino conservation is used to illustrate the concept of interdependence, showing that even without direct experience, one can contribute to a collective goal.

Q & A

What was the speaker's position in 1997 at Griffin's Foods?

The speaker was the new boss of Griffin's Foods, an iconic cookie and snacks company in New Zealand.

What was the speaker's call to action during their first speech as a leader?

The speaker's call to action was 'One in every four times a Kiwi eats a snack, it will be one of ours.'

Why did the speaker's initial speech not lead to any action or change within the company?

The speech did not lead to action because no one knew what they were expected to do, and they didn't realize that the speaker needed them.

What does the speaker argue is more effective than the idea of a single hero having all the answers?

The speaker argues that 'radical interdependence' is more effective, which means recognizing that we need each other and working together.

What is a B Corp and what does it signify about a company's commitment?

A B Corp is a group of companies that believe in business as a force for good, signifying their commitment to social and environmental performance through a tough certification process and legally declaring their intention to serve the community as well as their shareholders.

How did Patagonia and Eileen Fisher, as B Corps, approach the problem of waste in the clothing industry?

Patagonia encourages customers not to buy new clothes and offers free repairs, while Eileen Fisher pays customers for returning clothes that can be resold or repurposed. They work together and with others in the industry to solve shared problems.

What is the difference between a hero's goal and an interdependent leader's goal according to the speaker?

A hero's goal is individually deliverable and neatly measurable, often competitive and focused on terms like 'revenue' and 'market share'. An interdependent leader's goal is important but impossible to achieve alone, focusing on shared and systemic problems.

Why did the speaker announce the goal to become a B Corp without a plan?

The speaker wanted other people to help and co-create the path to achieving the goal, making the announcement an invitation for collaboration and support from both within and outside the company.

How did the speaker change the innovation and planning meetings at Kraft Foods in China to counteract the hero culture?

The speaker changed the language to Chinese and asked every single person in the meeting for their opinion, which improved understanding of cultural nuances and increased new product success rates.

What did the speaker learn about the importance of meetings from the perspective of an interdependent leader?

The speaker learned that meetings are not just calendar fillers but precious opportunities for collaboration, communication, and idea sharing, where people should lean forward, engaged and ready to contribute.

What did the speaker do to apply the concept of radical interdependence to the issue of rhino poaching?

The speaker declared their goal publicly, sought out others who were passionate about the issue, and joined them in the complex process of learning how to work together to address the problem.

Why does the speaker believe that interdependence is harder than being a hero and what are the benefits?

Interdependence is harder because it requires openness, transparency, and vulnerability, which traditional leaders are not trained to do. However, the joy and success that come from interdependence and vulnerability are worth the effort and the risk.

Outlines

00:00

👩‍💼 The Pitfalls of Heroic Leadership

The speaker reflects on their experience as a new leader at Griffin's Foods in 1997, emphasizing the importance of setting ambitious goals and measuring results. Despite the applause they received for their motivational speech, they realize that no action was taken afterward because the team didn't know what was expected of them. The speaker acknowledges the fallacy of the 'hero leader' concept, arguing that in a complex world, no single person has all the answers, and instead, we need a culture of 'radical interdependence'. They share their journey through different countries and involvement with B Corps, companies committed to social and environmental responsibility, and highlight the importance of seeing oneself as part of a larger system.

05:05

🤝 Embracing Interdependence in Business

The speaker discusses the collaborative approach of B Corps like Patagonia and Eileen Fisher, which are dedicated to reducing waste in the clothing industry. They explain how these companies take shared responsibility for the entire lifecycle of their products, from production to disposal, and work together to address industry-wide issues. The speaker also talks about the importance of declaring goals before having a plan, using their experience at Danone as an example, where they announced the intention to become a B Corp without a clear path, inviting others to co-create the solution. This approach led to a community celebration when the goal was achieved.

10:06

📈 Transforming Meetings and Overcoming Hero Culture

The speaker shares insights on how to foster collaboration and communication within a company by changing the way meetings are conducted. They recount their experience in Shanghai, where they shifted the language back to Chinese and actively sought opinions from every participant, leading to a better understanding of cultural nuances and successful product launches, such as green-tea-flavored Oreos. The speaker also describes an innovative approach at Danone to spread successful practices globally by creating a marketplace environment where ideas were sold like goods, encouraging a more engaging and truthful exchange. They conclude by applying these collaborative principles to a personal passion project in wildlife conservation, emphasizing the necessity of interdependence in addressing global challenges.

Keywords

💡Hero

In the context of the video, a 'hero' refers to an individual who is perceived to have the answers and the power to single-handedly solve problems or achieve goals. The speaker contrasts this traditional concept of a leader with the idea of 'radical interdependence,' suggesting that the hero's approach is not only ineffective but also dangerous because it can lead to complacency among others. An example from the script is the speaker's recollection of their own 'heroic' speech in a pink suit, which, despite receiving applause, did not inspire action or change within the company.

💡Interdependence

The concept of 'interdependence' is central to the video's message, emphasizing the need for mutual reliance and collaboration among individuals and organizations to achieve common goals. The speaker argues that in today's complex world, no single person or entity can have all the answers, and thus, we must depend on each other's strengths and contributions. The script illustrates this with examples from B Corps, companies that are part of a larger system and work together to address shared challenges.

💡B Corps

B Corps, or B Corporations, are businesses that meet high social and environmental standards, as certified by the B Lab. The script mentions B Corps as a group of companies that view themselves as part of a whole system and are committed to using business as a force for good. They are required to sign a 'declaration of interdependence,' reflecting their belief in the collective responsibility for social and environmental issues.

💡Collaboration

Collaboration is presented in the video as a key aspect of interdependent leadership, where individuals and organizations work together to solve problems that cannot be addressed by a single entity. The speaker highlights that true collaboration is subtle and complex, requiring openness and vulnerability. Examples from the script include Patagonia and Eileen Fisher, two B Corps in the clothing industry, working together to reduce waste.

💡Goals

The video discusses the difference between 'heroic goals' that can be individually achieved and 'interdependent goals' that require collective effort. Heroic goals are often competitive and measurable, such as revenue or market share, while interdependent goals are broader and more challenging, often focusing on social or environmental impact. The speaker contrasts these by sharing their experience with Danone's North American division, where they declared the goal to become a B Corp without a clear plan, inviting others to co-create the path to achievement.

💡Vulnerability

Vulnerability is portrayed as a strength in the video, as opposed to the traditional view of leaders needing to appear invincible. The speaker admits that interdependent leadership requires being open, transparent, and willing to show vulnerability, which can be uncomfortable but is essential for genuine collaboration and innovation. The script describes the speaker's realization that the illusion of being a hero was not as fulfilling or effective as embracing vulnerability and interdependence.

💡Innovation

Innovation in the video is linked to the process of challenging the status quo and traditional leadership styles. The speaker shares an experience from their time at Kraft Foods in Shanghai, where they changed the approach to innovation meetings to encourage open communication and input from all participants. This shift in culture led to a better understanding of market nuances and the successful launch of new products, such as green-tea-flavored Oreos.

💡Competition

The script contrasts 'competition' with 'collaboration,' highlighting that while traditional hero culture thrives on competition, interdependent leaders recognize the value in working together, even with competitors, to achieve shared goals. The example of Patagonia and Eileen Fisher in the clothing industry demonstrates how companies can compete in some areas while collaborating to address broader industry challenges.

💡Responsibility

Responsibility in the video is not just about individual or company success but extends to the impact on the larger system and society. B Corps, as mentioned in the script, take responsibility for their social and environmental performance and are legally committed to serving the community as well as their shareholders. The speaker emphasizes that interdependent leaders understand their role in the 'river' of activity and its consequences, intended or not.

💡Meetings

Meetings are depicted in the video as critical spaces for collaboration and communication. The speaker criticizes traditional meetings where the leader dominates and participants are passive, contrasting this with interdependent leadership meetings where everyone is engaged and valued for their input. The script describes how changing the language and dynamics of meetings at Kraft Foods in Shanghai led to more successful product launches.

💡Rhino Poaching

Rhino poaching is used in the video as an example of a complex, global issue that requires radical interdependence to solve. The speaker, who is passionate about wildlife conservation, acknowledges that stopping rhino poaching is beyond their individual capacity and calls for collective action. This serves as a personal example of embracing interdependence and the need to work together to address significant challenges.

Highlights

The speaker was the new boss of Griffin's Foods in 1997 and gave a big speech about ambitious goals.

The call to action was for Griffin's Foods to be the snack of choice one in every four times a Kiwi eats a snack.

The speaker emphasized measuring results and having control over the future, but the speech did not lead to action.

The problem was that employees did not know what they were expected to do or that the speaker needed them.

The idea of one person having all the answers is ineffective and dangerous in today's complex, interconnected world.

We need radical interdependence, recognizing that we need each other, even if others can be difficult.

The speaker has spent decades trying to be a good leader, living in 7 countries and working with the B Corp community.

B Corps are companies that believe in using business as a force for good, with a certification process and commitment to community.

B Corp companies see themselves as part of a whole system, understanding their role in the bigger picture.

Patagonia and Eileen Fisher, as B Corps, are committed to reducing waste in the clothing industry.

These companies take shared responsibility for problems upstream and downstream in the industry.

Collaborators set goals that are important but impossible to achieve alone, inviting others to help.

Interdependent leaders declare their goals before having a plan, seeking co-creation and help from others.

At Danone, the speaker announced the goal to become a B Corp without a plan, inspiring many to help.

Interdependent leaders see meetings as opportunities for collaboration, communication, and idea sharing.

Changing the language and asking for everyone's opinion in meetings improved product success at Kraft Foods in China.

Creating a fun, bazaar-like environment helped ideas spread at Danone and reduced the urge for heroic presentations.

The speaker is applying the principles of interdependence to wildlife conservation, joining others to help save rhinos.

Interdependence is harder than being a hero, requiring openness, transparency, and vulnerability.

The joy and success from interdependence is worth the effort and risk to solve today's global challenges.

Transcripts

Translator: Ivana Korom Reviewer: Krystian Aparta

It was a fantastic new pink suit

with big buttons and shoulder pads.

It was 1997,

and I was the new boss of Griffin's Foods,

an iconic cookie and snacks company in New Zealand.

It was my first time as the leader of a company,

and I was on the stage to give a big speech

about our ambitious new goals.

I knew exactly what my call to action was,

which was "One in every four times a Kiwi eats a snack,

it will be one of ours."

I emphasized that we knew how to measure our results

and that our future was in our control.

Embarrassingly enough,

I finished up with "If not this, what?

If not us, who?

And if not now, when?"

I got this huge round of applause

and I was really, really pleased with myself.

I wanted so much to be a good leader.

I wanted to be followed by a devoted team,

I wanted to be right.

In short, I wanted to be a hero.

A hero selling chips and biscuits in a pink suit.

(Laughter)

What happened after that speech?

Nothing.

All of that applause did not lead to action.

Nothing changed.

Not because they didn't like me or the message.

The problem was that no one knew what they were expected to do.

And most importantly,

they didn't know that I needed them.

Now, you may think that this is a classic hero speech,

where I'm going to tell you that I overcame that obstacle and triumphed.

Actually, I'm going to tell you

that in a world as complex and interconnected

as the one we live in,

the idea that one person has the answer is ludicrous.

It's not only ineffective, it's dangerous,

because it leads us to believe that it's been solved by that hero,

and we have no role.

We don't need heroes.

We need radical interdependence,

which is just another way of saying we need each other.

Even though other people can be really difficult, sometimes.

I spent decades trying to work out how to be a good leader.

I've lived in seven countries and five continents.

And in recent years,

I've spent a lot of time with the B Corp community,

originally as a corporate participant

and more recently as an ambassador.

Now, B Corps are a group of companies

who believe in business as a force for good.

There's a tough certification with about 250 questions

about your social and environmental performance.

You must legally declare your intention

to serve the community as well as your shareholders

and you must sign the declaration of interdependence.

Now one of the things that inspires me the most

about the companies in this movement

is that they see themselves as part of a whole system.

It's sort of as if they imagine themselves on a big, flowing river of activity,

where, if they are, for example, soft drinks manufacturers,

they understand that upstream from them,

there's water and sugar,

and farmers that grow that sugar,

and plastic and metal and glass,

all of which flows into this thing

that we call a company which has financial results.

And the flowing continues with consequences.

Some of them intended,

like refreshment and hydration,

and some unintended,

like garbage and obesity.

Spending time with leaders in this space

has led me to see that true collaboration is possible,

but it's subtle and it's complex.

And the leaders in this space are doing a few things very differently

from traditional heroic leaders.

They set goals differently,

they announce those goals differently

and they have a very different relationship with other people.

Let's begin with the first difference.

A hero sets a goal that can be individually delivered

and neatly measured.

You can recognize a heroic goal --

they use terms like "revenue" and "market share"

and are often competitive.

I mean, remember pink-suit day?

Interdependent leaders, on the other hand,

start with a goal that's really important,

but is actually impossible to achieve by one company or one person alone.

I want to give you an example from the clothing industry,

which produces 92 million tons of waste a year.

Patagonia and Eileen Fisher are clothing manufacturers,

both of them B Corps,

both of them deeply committed to reducing waste.

They don't see that their responsibility ends

when a customer buys their clothes.

Patagonia encourages you not to buy new clothes from them,

and will repair your old clothes for free.

Eileen Fisher will pay you when you bring back your clothes,

and either sell them on or turn them into other clothes.

While these two companies are competitive in some ways,

they work together and with others in the industry

to solve shared problems.

They take responsibility for things that happen upstream as well.

Around the world,

there are around 300 million people who work from home in this industry,

most of them women,

many of them in very difficult circumstances

with poor lighting,

sewing on buttons and doing detailed stitching.

Until 2014, there was no protection for these workers.

A group of companies got together with a not-for-profit called Nest

to create a set of standards

that's now been adopted by the whole industry.

Once you've seen problems like this, you can't unsee them,

so you have to ask others to help you to solve them.

These folks take interdependence as a given,

and said to me,

"We don't compete on human rights."

The second big difference for collaborators

is their willingness to declare their goals before they have a plan.

Now the hero only reveals their carefully crafted goal

when the path to achieve it is clear.

In fact, the role of the hero announcement is to set the stage for the big win.

Hero announcements are full of triumph.

Interdependent leaders, on the other hand,

want other people to help them,

so their announcements are often an invitation for co-creation,

and sometimes, they're a call for help.

At the North American division of the French food company Danone,

I announced that we wanted to become a B Corp.

And unlike pink-suit day,

I had no plan to get there.

I remember the day really clearly.

Everybody in the room gasped,

because they knew we didn't have a plan.

But they also knew that we had seen our role

in the river that is the food system,

and we wanted to make a change.

Making that declaration without a plan

meant that so many young people in our company

stepped up to help us,

and B Corps around us all rallied around.

And the day we became a B Corp

wasn't just a self-congratulatory moment of a hero company --

it was more like a community celebration.

Now when you gave goals that you can't achieve alone,

and you've told everyone about them,

inevitably, you'll end up at the third big difference,

which is how you see other people,

inside your company and outside.

Heroes see everyone as a competitor or a follower.

Heroes don't want input,

because they want to control everything because they want the credit.

And you can see this in a typical hero meeting.

Heroes like making speeches.

People lean back in their chairs,

maybe impressed but not engaged.

Interdependent leaders, on the other hand,

understand that they need other people.

They know that meetings are not just mindless calendar fillers.

These are the most precious things you have.

It's where people collaborate and communicate

and share ideas.

People lean forward in meetings like this,

wondering where they might fit in.

When I was in Shanghai in China,

where I lived for six years, running the Kraft Foods business,

selling, amongst other things, Oreo cookies,

we had a problem with hero culture.

We kept on launching new products that failed.

And we would find out afterwards

that everyone in the company knew they were going to fail,

they just didn't feel free to tell us.

So we changed the way we ran our innovation and planning meetings

in two important ways.

First of all, language went back to Chinese.

Because even though everyone spoke great English,

when I was in the room and the meeting was in English,

they focused on me.

And I was the foreigner, and I was the boss

and I apparently had that intimidating hero look.

The second thing

is we asked every single person in the meeting their opinion.

And our understanding of the subtleties of the differences

between American taste and Chinese taste, in this case,

really improved,

and our new product success rate radically turned around

and we launched a lot of winners,

including the now famous green-tea-flavored Oreos.

Hero culture sneaks in everywhere.

At Danone, we had a lot of great stuff happening

in one part of the world,

and we wanted it to spread to another part of the world.

But when you put a person in business gear

up in front of a group of people with PowerPoint,

they have the urge to become sort of heroic.

And they make everything look super shiny

and they don't tell the truth.

And it's not compelling and it's not even interesting.

So, we changed it

and we created these full-day marketplaces,

kind of like a big bazaar.

And everybody was dressed up in costume,

some people a little, some people a lot.

And sellers had to man their stalls

and sell their ideas as persuasively as possible,

and people who were convinced bought them with fake check books.

Creating just a bit of silliness with the environment

and a hat or a scarf

drops people's guard and causes ideas to spread like wildfire.

There's no recipe here,

but time together has to be carefully curated and created

so that people know that their time is valuable and important,

and they can bring their best selves to the table.

Hero culture is present right here in TED.

This whole process makes it look like I think I'm a hero.

So just in case there's any doubt about the point that I'm trying to make,

I want to apply these ideas

in an area in which I have zero credibility

and zero experience.

I'm originally South African,

and I'm deeply passionate about wildlife conservation,

most particularly rhinos.

Those majestic creatures with big horns.

Every day, three rhinos are killed,

because there are people who think that those horns are valuable,

even though they're just made of the same stuff

as hair and fingernails.

It breaks my heart.

Like all good recovering heroes,

I did everything I could to reduce this goal

to something that I could do by myself.

But clearly, stopping rhino poaching is a goal way too big for me.

So I'm immediately in interdependence land.

I'm declaring my goal on this stage.

I found other people as passionate as I am

and I've asked if I could join them.

And after today, there may be more.

And we're now in the complex but inspiring process

of learning how to work together.

My dream is that one day, someone will stand on this stage

and tell you how radical interdependence saved my beloved rhinos.

Why does hero culture persist,

and why don't we work together more?

Well, I don't know why everyone else does it,

but I can tell you why I did it.

Interdependence is a lot harder than being a hero.

It requires us to be open and transparent and vulnerable,

and that's not what traditional leaders have been trained to do.

I thought being a hero would keep me safe.

I thought that in the elevation

and separation that comes from heroic leadership,

that I would be untouchable.

This is an illusion.

The joy and success that comes from interdependence and vulnerability

is worth the effort and the risk.

And if we're going to solve the challenges that the world is facing today,

we have no alternative,

so we had better start getting good at it.

Thank you.

(Applause)