The Power Of Kindness: How Jonathan Wener Turned A $10k Loan Into A $15 Billion Empire

Summary

In this engaging interview, real estate mogul Jonathan Weiner shares his inspiring journey from a $10,000 loan to building a billion-dollar empire. He discusses his strategic approach to business, the importance of passion, and his commitment to community through philanthropy, emphasizing the value of investing in people and giving back.

Takeaways

• 🏦 The speaker leveraged a Royal Trust credit card to make a significant real estate purchase, demonstrating creative financial strategies.
• 💳 The use of a credit card for a multi-million dollar transaction highlights the importance of leveraging available resources and financial tools.
• 🏙️ The story of Jonathan Weiner's success in real estate, starting from a small loan and growing to a multi-billion dollar empire, underscores the power of ambition and strategic planning.
• 💼 The speaker emphasizes the importance of hard work, integrity, and strategic partnerships in building a successful business.
• 🤝 The concept of 'No is the beginning of negotiation' is a key theme, illustrating the importance of persistence and strategic negotiation in business deals.
• 💰 The speaker shares the strategy of giving employees a stake in the business, which not only motivates them but also helps in building a loyal and committed team.
• 🏗️ The speaker's approach to real estate development involves a deep understanding of the market and a willingness to take calculated risks.
• 🤔 The speaker's experience in dealing with bureaucracy and overcoming obstacles through determination and direct action provides valuable lessons in leadership and problem-solving.
• 💹 The speaker's emphasis on the importance of financial acumen and strategic financial management in business success is a key takeaway.
• 🌐 The speaker's story of building relationships and partnerships across different sectors and regions illustrates the value of networking and strategic alliances in business growth.
• 💖 The speaker's commitment to philanthropy and giving back to the community, even while building a successful business, highlights the importance of social responsibility and making a positive impact.

Q & A

What significant financial strategy did the speaker use when purchasing the Royal Trust building?

The speaker utilized a gold Royal Trust credit card to make the purchase, taking advantage of a 1% discount on the card, which amounted to a saving of 1.3 million dollars on the 65 million dollar deal.

How did the speaker's early experience with Maxwell Cummings influence his approach to business?

Maxwell Cummings gave the speaker his first opportunity in management at the age of 16, teaching him the importance of hard work and learning from the ground up, which instilled in him a strong work ethic and a hands-on approach to business.

What was the speaker's first major real estate deal and how did it shape his future in real estate?

The speaker's first major deal was the purchase and renovation of the Concordia building, which he bought with a 10,000 dollar loan. This deal provided him with startup capital for his real estate empire, Canada, and demonstrated the potential for significant profit in the real estate industry.

How did the speaker's relationship with Eugene Reisman contribute to his success?

Eugene Reisman provided the speaker with opportunities to participate in various real estate deals, allowing him to gain experience and build wealth through equity. This relationship was crucial in establishing the speaker's foothold in the industry.

What was the significance of the speaker's experience with the Student Union building renovation?

The renovation of the Student Union building not only provided the speaker with a significant profit but also taught him the importance of perseverance and the value of direct action, as demonstrated when he called the mayor to expedite the building permit process.

How did the speaker's approach to dealing with difficult situations, such as the steel overage on a project, reflect his character?

The speaker's willingness to cover the steel overage on a project, despite it not being his responsibility, shows his commitment to fairness and his understanding of the importance of maintaining good relationships with business partners.

What role did the speaker's grandfather play in shaping his business philosophy?

The speaker's grandfather instilled in him a strong sense of integrity and the value of leaving money on the table for the sake of maintaining ethical business practices.

How did the speaker's strategy of partnering with different financial institutions benefit his business?

By partnering with various financial institutions, the speaker was able to diversify his deals and match them to the specific interests and requirements of each institution, thus building a robust and resilient business model.

What was the turning point for the speaker in his decision to leave his position with Eugene Reisman and start his own business?

The speaker experienced an anxiety attack, which led him to reassess his career path and ultimately decide to leave Eugene Reisman to pursue his own business ventures.

Can you describe the speaker's philosophy on investing in employees and how it contributed to his company's success?

The speaker believes in investing in employees by giving them a stake in the company's success, creating a sense of family, and fostering a supportive and inclusive work environment. This approach helped to build loyalty, motivation, and a strong team spirit within the company.

What impact has the speaker's involvement in community projects had on his personal and professional life?

The speaker's involvement in community projects, such as fundraising for cancer research, has brought him a sense of fulfillment and purpose beyond his business achievements. It has also enhanced his reputation and the social impact of his company.

Outlines

00:00

💳 Creative Real Estate Deal with a Credit Card

The speaker recounts an experience where he humorously used a gold Royal Trust credit card to purchase the Royal Trust building for 65 million dollars, leveraging a one percent discount on the card to offset the bank's fees. He also discusses his early ventures in real estate, including a significant deal with a company that started with a 10,000 dollar loan and grew to billions, highlighting the importance of strategic partnerships and smart business operations.

05:02

🏗️ From Construction Labor to Real Estate Entrepreneur

The narrative describes the speaker's journey from working physically on construction sites to becoming a clerk of the works and later a general contractor, making his first million dollars at the age of 17. He emphasizes the value of hard work, learning from experiences, and having a passion for what you do, which he considers the most important aspect of success in business.

10:05

🤝 Building Trust and Relationships in Business

The speaker discusses the importance of integrity and trust in building long-lasting business relationships. He shares anecdotes about his early career, including a situation where he turned down a 10 million dollar lease due to ethical reasons. The story illustrates his commitment to doing what's right over what's profitable, and how this approach has contributed to his success.

15:06

🏦 Financing Challenges and Creative Solutions

In this paragraph, the speaker talks about the challenges of securing financing for a large real estate deal and the creative solution he employed by involving a trusted mentor as a guarantor. He also discusses the importance of having a strong network and how relationships with banks and other financial institutions are crucial for a developer's success.

20:07

📈 Learning from Failures in Real Estate Ventures

The speaker reflects on several real estate deals that did not go as planned, such as the Montreal Forum, and what he learned from these experiences. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the nature of the business and the quality of partners, as well as the need to diversify relationships to avoid over-reliance on a single market or partner.

25:10

🤔 The Strategy of Long-Term Relationship Building

The speaker shares insights on the value of building trust and competence in business relationships, highlighting the importance of a good track record and the ability to cross the same bridge multiple times. He also discusses the significance of having complementary skills in partnerships and how he leveraged financial institutions to his advantage.

30:10

🎯 Visionary Deal-making and the Power of Partnerships

The speaker recounts a story of how he secured a major real estate deal through a combination of strategic planning and leveraging relationships. He emphasizes the importance of having a clear vision, bringing the right people to the table, and working collaboratively to achieve a common goal.

35:13

💼 The Art of Negotiation and Creative Financing

In this paragraph, the speaker describes a high-stakes negotiation to purchase the Royal Trust building, creatively using a credit card to finalize the deal. He also discusses the importance of due diligence and transitioning property management as part of the deal-making process.

40:14

🤝 Investing in Employees and Community for Business Growth

The speaker shares his philosophy on investing in employees and the community as a means of building a successful business. He talks about creating a family-like environment within the company, giving back through charity, and the importance of having a purpose beyond just making money.

45:14

📚 Life Lessons and Advice for Future Generations

The speaker concludes with life and business lessons he wishes to pass on to future generations. He emphasizes passion, surrounding oneself with the right people, investing in employees, and giving back to the community as key components of a fulfilling and successful life.

Keywords

💡Real Estate

Real estate refers to land and anything permanently attached to it, such as buildings and natural resources. In the video, it is central to the narrative as the speaker discusses his journey and success in the real estate business, starting from a small loan to building a multi-billion dollar empire. The term is used to illustrate the foundation of his wealth and the strategic moves he made in acquiring and developing properties.

💡Credit Card

A credit card is a payment card issued by a financial company that allows cardholders to borrow funds to pay for their purchases. In the video, the speaker humorously recounts an anecdote about attempting to purchase the Royal Trust Building using a credit card, highlighting his audacious and unconventional approach to business transactions.

💡Royal Trust Building

The Royal Trust Building is a specific property mentioned in the script, which the speaker purchased. It serves as a pivotal point in the narrative, demonstrating the speaker's significant investment and the scale of his real estate ventures. The building represents a major milestone in his career and a testament to his business acumen.

💡Gold Royal Trust Credit Card

This refers to a premium credit card offered by the Royal Trust, which the speaker uses as a humorous example in his story. The card is highlighted for its one percent cashback feature, which the speaker cleverly uses to negotiate a discount on his purchase of the Royal Trust Building, showcasing his negotiation skills and business savvy.

💡Strategic

Strategic in this context refers to the speaker's methodical and well-planned approach to business. The term is used to describe how he carefully maneuvers his business deals, ensuring mutual benefit and long-term partnerships. It is exemplified in his interactions with partners and his approach to expanding his real estate portfolio.

💡Passion

Passion is a recurring theme in the video, where the speaker emphasizes the importance of being deeply interested and committed to one's work. He advises that passion should drive one's career choices and business endeavors, suggesting that financial success will naturally follow when one is truly passionate about their work.

💡Invest in Employees

The speaker stresses the importance of investing in employees, suggesting that this not only builds a strong company but also fosters a sense of family and loyalty. He shares examples from his own experience, such as hosting annual events for his staff, to illustrate how such investments can enhance team morale and productivity.

💡Community Involvement

Community involvement is highlighted as a key aspect of the speaker's life and business philosophy. He discusses his participation in various charitable initiatives and the importance of giving back. This keyword is used to convey the message that success is not only about personal gain but also about contributing to the well-being of the community.

💡Candaril

Candaril is the company founded by the speaker, which serves as a central element in the narrative. The term is used to illustrate the growth and success of his real estate business, starting from a small venture to a major player in the industry. Candaril's story is used to inspire and demonstrate the potential of strategic business planning and execution.

💡Three-Dimensional Chess

This metaphor is used to describe the speaker's approach to business negotiations and strategic planning. It suggests a level of foresight and complexity in his dealings, as he anticipates multiple outcomes and plans accordingly. The term is used to emphasize his ability to think several steps ahead and manipulate situations to his advantage.

💡Million Dollars

The term 'million dollars' is frequently mentioned in the script, often in the context of significant financial transactions and milestones in the speaker's career. It serves as a measure of success and ambition, illustrating the scale of his business deals and the wealth he has accumulated through his ventures.

Highlights

The speaker utilized a gold Royal Trust credit card to purchase a building for 65 million dollars, demonstrating a creative approach to large transactions.

A one percent discount on the credit card resulted in a 650,000 dollar saving on the building purchase, showcasing the benefits of financial acumen.

The story of Jonathan Weiner's rise from a 10,000 dollar loan to building a multi-billion dollar real estate empire illustrates the power of strategic business acumen and perseverance.

Candaril's early success with the Concordia building and the subsequent establishment of the company highlights the importance of seizing opportunities in real estate.

The interviewee's experience working with Eugene Richmond and the lessons learned about business execution and strategic partnerships provides insight into the growth of a business.

The concept of 'maybe on the road to yes' from Jonathan Weiner's book emphasizes the importance of not taking no for an answer and finding creative solutions in business.

The audacity and confidence to call the mayor directly for a building permit as a young man underlines the boldness required for success in real estate.

The integrity to forgo a 10 million dollar lease over unethical demands highlights the importance of maintaining principles in business dealings.

The strategy of assigning shares to a mentor for financial backing and the subsequent quick refinance to regain independence demonstrates smart financial maneuvering.

The transition from leasing to property development and the focus on equity rather than salary illustrates a long-term approach to wealth creation.

The story of the Montreal Forum project and the lessons learned about the pitfalls of entertainment real estate provides a cautionary tale for developers.

The value of building trust and competence in business relationships is underscored by the speaker's experiences with various financial partners.

The interviewee's approach to partnership, emphasizing complementary skills and avoiding competing interests, offers a strategy for successful collaborations.

The story of buying the Royal Trust building and the intense negotiation process exemplifies the determination and hard work required in major real estate deals.

The importance of investing in employees and creating a family-like culture within a company as a means to build a successful business is emphasized.

The concept of giving back and paying it forward through community involvement and philanthropy is presented as a cornerstone of a fulfilling life and business.

The interview concludes with the message that a rich life is defined by the impact one has on others and the good deeds done, rather than material wealth.

Transcripts

he said you can't buy the Royal trust

building on a credit card I had written

one building 65 million I'd signed it I

said could you please call for a

authorization

and it was a gold Royal trust credit

card they sent me my bill yesterday

and I paid it and I brought it up to

date

that means I won't get another bill for

30 days

that's worth one percent one percent is

six hundred and fifty thousand dollars

and I said and by the way I don't know

whether you know it or not but on a gold

Royal Trust Credit Card you get a one

percent discount

that's 1.3 million

[Music]

so as long as I have like known about

like the real estate business and you

and I have always been fast in the real

estate business there's this one company

that always comes up

and I actually didn't know the story

behind candrell until you started

talking about Jonathan weiner that's

amazing and you you brought him up to me

for years and years you've been talking

with this guy Jonathan Jonathan and I

actually knew nothing about him and so

as we began to think about big shot and

who he wanted I started to do a little

bit of some research on this guy to

figure out okay is this guy as amazing

as Dave thinks this is the stats it's

unbelievable so this guy in the 1970s

started with a 10 000 load ten thousand

dollar loan yeah and he's rolled this

into let me get the numbers here

um many many billions sorry so a ten

thousand dollar loan in in 1975 he

borrowed ten thousand dollars on a 19

000 salary and he was able to make this

purchase he ended up making fifty

thousand dollars profit on that first

right he brought it uh Concordia

building and turned it into a restaurant

exactly Concordia for those I don't know

it's it's a university here in Montreal

so he bought a little building right by

Concordia and then he used that money to

start kandarel the profit he made he was

25 years old today they have 60 million

million square feet of owned managed

developed properties and they've done 15

billion with a B dollars of Acquisitions

and developments I mean this guy has

built the entire landscape of Canada

amazing the tallest Residential Building

in in Toronto he's also now the

chancellor of a university huge in the

community now it's not just that he's

like this incredible entrepreneur and a

credible Builder one of the things that

when we started talking to some people

and asking them tell us about Jonathan

the way that he operates is really smart

he's so strategic so if he wants to work

with someone for example even if they

say no he always finds a way to bring

them in and make it worthwhile for them

he leaves enough on the table so they

can benefit and instead of just

convincing them he kind of shows them

and eventually in his own Jonathan way

he gets exactly what he wants and that's

his book right no is maybe on the road

to yes that's what his book's called I'm

peace

I love that I mean like it's it's so

perfect for a Big Show totally so this

story is incredible because one most

people have an earth if you don't

understand real estate you may not have

heard Kendra but what you will start

seeing now that you've heard the name

you will start using candle signs

everywhere I mean these guys built

Canada and they're done in a way that's

you know

so we reach out to says he is such a

huge heart they called him the Jewish

Santa Claus I love that but again he

started with a 10 000 loan and has built

a 15 billion dollar real estate Empire

and he did with heart and integrity I I

cannot wait it's gonna be a great

episode and he I think he exemplifies

this concept of big shot and big

audacious goals Jonathan weiner Jonathan

leader let's go let's go

[Music]

[Applause]

John thank you for having us thank you

cheers

I'll kick us off here

you weren't always such a big shot

I was never a big shot

well we we you know we make we may

disagree on that but yeah but David's

right yeah tell us take us back to the

beginning I mean we all know the famous

story of the ten thousand dollar

starting point of candle but we want to

go back before that at 16 I went to see

Maxwell Cummings

um that's Stephen Cummings grandfather

we know the coming Center yeah and uh

uh he was married to Queenie weiner

which was my grandfather's sister and

they were building a large portfolio in

Calgary and I said listen

I'm 16 I'm going into University next

year and I want a job in management

right

he said tell you what

go buy yourself a pair of heart tote

construction boots and a helmet and I'm

sending you out to Calgary and you'll

learn about management

and I learned to build from the ground

up you're like the form in there no it

was no foreign

by the end of the summer and they put

they put me through the ringer and I

wouldn't quit and I could go on for

hours on some of the stories that went

on in terms of

having to carry steel frame exit door

frames yeah up 30 stories and I wasn't

allowed to use the crane

um and most people would have quit the

party you love it I didn't love it no it

just said that nothing's going to break

my back right

end of the summer I became Clerk of the

works on the job and so I moved up quite

a peg I wasn't anymore on the

construction site it was in the office

the next year they hired me to act as a

general contractor for the same building

selling tenant Improvement packages to

the tenants

and I made a million dollars in the six

months in my second year first year of

University like 17 years old 17 years

old and you're selling them Insurance

effectively no no I was selling them

packages of of tenant improvements

and we were the general conference I was

running so you basically had a pro a

menu of things you could sell them and

you just out of it doors today this is

19

1968 right yeah wow okay so I fell in

love with the business I absolutely felt

was there an aspect of the business

scale uh the size of like I wasn't

talking you know suit for sixteen

dollars I was talking about million

dollar contracts

I was dealing with prominent business

people I was getting deals done

I was

just absolutely beyond happy okay in

terms of intellectual stimulation I said

this is it for me wow so I was lucky

and I consider the lucky people in life

the people who can have a passion for

what they're doing

not the people who just make money or or

the people who unfortunately never find

the things that they're passionate about

and just follow in a rut for the rest of

their lives that I consider my

greatest piece of luck yeah the rest

followed sure and you make your luck by

how hard you work and how you put

yourself into everything you do

but that gave me a real foundation for

the future let's go back a little bit to

when you decided you want to spend the

summer as management I mean it takes a

certain a certain level yeah to call and

say I'm going to be management now was

that something that that sort of is that

is that something you always sort of had

you always felt

um The Audacity the confidence to do to

take something well wait before you

answer that what is mean to you

Noah's may be on the road to yes which

is your your book's coming out yeah

yeah I believe

not taking no for an answer so figuring

it out I was probably a bit brashing a

little very naive at the time you're 16.

I mean okay right yeah who's not

um

I knew that I was going into management

at Concordia which was Sir George at the

time

I obviously wanted something that was

aligned to that

but if this was a route to get there and

he told me he said you you know hunker

down learn yep learn everything and I

the the amount I learned about

construction that summer

and I remember a cement truck driver

saying to me

you must be Jewish

I said why he said you asked so many

questions

and I was asking about the different

Aggregates and how what's the difference

between this concrete and that concrete

I was learning I was learning a sponge

and I've always been a sponge for

learning from people and or experiences

so that's now you're in the office

you're selling what happens next

so what happened next is they asked me

to quit school and come back

to Calgary yeah and there's a lot of

interesting little anecdotes within that

because what happened was I wasn't

making enough money for my expenses and

I was putting myself through school my

parents did not put me through school

well in fact they made it worse they

charged me red

um they charge you rent to live at home

yeah and why is that yeah I only found

out later it was before saving they gave

it back to me when I got married but

didn't know at the time no and so they

were trying to create Independence

presumably yeah yeah they just they

wanted to instill the value to stay I

save it yeah yeah they were hard driving

they really did and sometimes I felt

like

it was too much right like maybe I

should be able to cool my Jets or my

engines a bit and I but I was so hard

driven in so many ways

it was always there and I am a

passionate guy I love what I do whether

it's philanthropy or it's Community or

it's

uh business

um

and so the engagement's always intense

right and I don't mean intense in the

dealings intense to get it done to get

to the Finish Line right

um and then you get to Concordia

which is it you describe as a part of

you and you meet your wife on the first

day

her father

her father said you're only going to

University to get married and she said

no I'm not and she met me in the first

hour where where'd you meet her how did

that happen

so I was very active at Sir George I was

the first student member of the Board of

Governors I was chairman of clubs

chairman of a blood drive skiing and all

kinds of other activities

in my fourth year I was involved with

freshman orientation

there I was wearing a three-piece suit

and this young lady comes with no shoes

on no shoes no shoes

she walked from her home in Saint

Laurent no shoes to downtown wow

um hair down to her

middle of her back and stunning and I

gravitated to her table and managed to

talk to her well you're in a three-piece

suit she's yeah we're not wearing shoes

I mean anyway she goes to her friend

Linda who's still a good friend of ours

and says that's that's the kind of guy I

want

and she played hard to get for a few

weeks a few months

and finally we had a date I was

president of the Student Union in that

last year I had renovated that student

union and I was the emcee for past the

Hat wait what do you mean you renovated

the Student Union okay so a group of us

bought the Student Union which is where

vilnov had his bar yeah yeah

um so a group of like you you were a

student you bought the building yeah how

old were you 20. this is privately or or

through the school through the school

through the school

um and my summer job that year I told

you I took a year off from Cummings that

year I renovated it

and it's actually in itself quite a

story because

I kept going for a building permit and a

set of plans and

the first time

these are all part of the nose Maybe

um

first set of plans the building permit

department said you need to make these

this and this and this change and I said

okay so it's back made the changes came

back made application for the permit

didn't get it

this happened three times

I finally

I'm only 20 but I'm realizing that I'm

being held up and I'm an institution and

right this isn't right

so I go back to the Student Association

floor on the fourth floor at uh Sir

George and I said I'm calling the mayor

oh yeah who are you you're gonna call

I'm calling the mayor

so I pick up the phone I call the

mayor's office

[Laughter]

and the woman says I'm sorry the mayor's

busy I said well I kind of knew that

that's what you were going to say but

just let me interject a few words here

and then we'll see where this

conversation goes I said my name's

Jonathan weiner I'm president of the

Student Union

I don't know whether you realize it or

not but the mayor's running for

re-election in October

and this is the first time that students

will have the right to vote at 18 years

of age they are going to be furious when

they find out that City Hall has been

holding up the Student Union from being

able to renovate and be open in

September that got our attention just a

moment please mayor's not busy all of a

sudden

Mary gets on the phone he said uh

tell me the story Mr winner I tell him

the story he said you come here at nine

o'clock tomorrow morning you'll pick up

your permit wow and he made the guy hand

it to me he was so red-faced wow

klutzpah yeah totally no it's not a

matter of hutzpah it's a matter of right

and wrong and my attitude is

you have an obligation to execute right

yes but the part of it is the fact that

you decided to call the mayor directly I

mean whereas most people would never

even think to do that they'd be like

well I guess that's the way it's done

yeah I guess we have to wait in line I

mean you're 20 years old but I also

because of the ethos that I was given by

my grandfather

payoffs we're just not in the vocabulary

what was the actual ethos what was the

thing that just highly a high level of

Integrity in dealings I've left millions

of dollars on the table for integrity

can you give me an example that well I

have two situations one is where a large

tenant

uh invited me we were working on their

renewal and he invited me into his uh

premises on a Friday

uh uh at noon time

and he said to me and I think at the

time I was 29 years old

he said to me um

you know my daughter's getting married

very soon I said congratulations I said

I have two daughters myself

he says you know weddings are very

expensive I said oh yes I'm starting to

save now

and four years old but I I understand

that weddings can be very expensive and

he goes on and on and on like this and I

said to him look

and this is an open Office landscape

environment but there is nobody else in

there except me and him and he says to

me

do you not understand what I'm saying I

said I understand completely what you're

saying but if you're telling me that the

renewal of your space depends on me

helping you with your daughter's wedding

we're not doing business wow and this

was at the time

about a 10 million dollar lease wow okay

and 75 and that's 79 and you own this

building I was a part owner yeah

not a major owner right but still yeah

and I lost the deal wow

and I told my guys my bosses I said you

know if you want to overrule me that's

fine but I will not do it and just to be

clear it's a 10 million dollar lease but

he probably didn't need much he probably

needed 25 000 bucks right something like

that right and you still said no I don't

do it you don't do it I don't do it I've

never done it I never have to look over

my shoulder so I mean we gotta go back

to the start of Real Estate where this

famous story where you you I believe you

start first you leave Concordia and you

get a job right with Eugene reason the

council I got

was you know enough about construction

go into leasing because that's where the

money's made it's not the execution is

in construction the value is created in

leasing so I went into leasing I worked

in pvm and then I moved over to a

building called 2020 University

which was a joint venture with first

Quebec Corporation and trizek

I did the leasing there I gained my

first 20 pounds in real estate uh doing

the first fast food fair in the basement

of 2020.

um trying out all the different foods to

make sure we have the right package Etc

and get it done interestingly so many of

the buildings I had connections to I

ultimately bought because I ended up

buying 2020 University 30 years later I

must feel good yeah

um

anyway I I put together a fairly large

deal a hundred thousand foot deal and

trizek said too small for us we don't

want to do it I said you're too big for

me I need to go

and first Quebec was Gene reeseman and

Ralph Berman at the time a very small

office

they made me a vice president at uh

23 years old incredible

um and uh riesman who's still alive and

who I've looked upon as a father figure

he's a real Renaissance Man a very

lovely individual

but not a great businessman

um strategic but not business

executional

and that was a great asset because it

was a void that I could fill and he let

me go

and so one deal after another after

another

when I started out with him and we'll

roll back to 1975.

but

I told him I said I'm not really

interested in salary I'm interested in

equity I want to build wealth was that

always how you thought about it yeah

with jobs yeah

um

everything I did along the way was to

get to that point yeah

um and so

uh recently said you know you can

participate I'm happy to have you

participate in the deals but you're

gonna have to write your own checks

reesman's father

used to call me on Fridays to find out

what his son was up to and was he doing

the right thing or the wrong thing

um

so

roll back to 75 because in 1975

I needed Equity to go into a couple of

deals

um

and I had

a pregnant wife right

pregnant we had actually 1975 uh

was the birth of my first child so

we had that we had an apartment on Nuns

Island we were looking at a house

um uh recently was giving me an

interest-free mortgage to buy a house so

that that would really get me going

and I realized I better put together

some money lo and behold

now Concordia not Sir George calls me

the treasurer of the university and says

John Nobody Knows the Student Union

building better than you you know every

screwed nut and bolt in the place

we've outgrown it we want to sell it

would you like to buy it so I said sure

I negotiate with him

but you said sure you had to have no

money yeah I had five thousand five

thousand yeah sorry I had five thousand

dollars it almost rounds to zero but yes

yeah yeah five thousand dollars in those

days was not so bad sure it's true it's

funny because when you research the

story it actually rounds up to 10.

no but then I had to go see gitromblay

at the bank nationale

um it was then the BC and Ben Canadian

national

and I figured he was one of my true

heroes because earning I think thirteen

thousand dollars at the time I said to

him I need to borrow 10 from the bank

did you laugh at you

laugh at you and he said well how are

you going to repay it Etc and I showed

him and and I said look I'm gonna be

worth a lot more money but you need to

take a chance on me and so I figured

what credibility did you have with him

uh he showed him my plan and my my life

plan and whatnot right but you had never

done a deal before I'd never done a deal

before for my own account yeah so I

figure he was my real so how did you

know him I mean you must have gone to a

bunch of other banks that that they were

a tenant in one of our buildings

obviously he was the bank manager and I

had a relationship with him anyway so he

lent me the 10.

and I made my offer and I executed on

the offer and

a good friend of yours a father uh Jerry

Shiner who's a notary

introduced me to a fellow by the name of

Maurice barrero who was a Moroccan

restaurateur okay

and was interested in a location in

Montreal and I met him and we sat down

and we worked it through and negotiated

a lease

and I started to organize my financing

for the takeout

and two weeks before closing Mr barrero

came to me and he said look John

he said I know we negotiated a lease

I'll live up to it but I really don't

want to be a tenant of like to own the

real estate he had bought some of the

Timmins the old Timmins properties up in

Westmount

and had renovated and done very well

with them so he said I I like the

location I'll give you a fifty thousand

dollar profit

uh would you be interested in the deal I

said well so this was a fifty thousand

dollar property to sell the building

right away yeah yeah it's closing at

closing finished no lease with a

restaurant to her yeah yeah wow

that 50 000 we did close

and that 50 000 became the startup

capital for Canada but wait at this

point you're thinking you're raising

money to put in equity into Eugene

Richmond steals right but I was going to

do it through a vehicle my vehicle

became candy rail wow so candaril

started out

joint venturing with reeseman in one two

five ten fifteen twenty Thirty

eventually 49 percent positions wow in

the deals

and so

actually a bit of the past my next deal

which was much bigger with Leo colber

um and a number of other investors which

was 57.57 Cavendish in code St Luke

which a year later was supposed to be

the continuation of jean-taloupe and the

continuation of calvinist Drew to Saint

Laurent

it is now uh

47 years later it still doesn't happen

that's right yeah

um

but I needed to borrow

a large sum of money and guarantee it at

the bank

I did not have enough net worth

statement to do it

and it humbled me tremendously but I had

no choice because I had no family to go

to

so I went to see Maxwell Cummings

and I said the original boss when you

were 16 years old right and I said to

him

um

could I get you to be a guarantor for my

financing

because I can't I don't have the

underlying value to do it

and he said are you prepared to assign

your shares in your company etc etc I

said yeah he said how long will it be I

said not more than a year

and he did and TD Bank became the banker

he insisted on TD Bank

and uh uh I got the deal done and I came

back to him I refinanced it and gave him

back his note in six months he said six

months you got a whole year

I said well here's what I did and I did

a couple of other deals that have made

it happen and so that became I never had

to do that again where did you hit the

first one that didn't work

first one that didn't work yeah

to tell you if I worked no we've had two

or three yeah that didn't work but they

happened in the 90s and was it was it

was there a Common Thread of the ones

that did not work no they were all

different different things that I

learned for example The Forum yeah

Montreal Forum we did

we brought in a partner that was

supposed to know what they were doing

um

assignment property Grew From the states

David Simon and the unfortunate thing

that you learn with many Americans is

they are arrogant as hell

and that you Canadians who don't know

anything just move over and let us in

right and this is your backyard I mean

we're blocks away from it so they didn't

listen and they pulled a number of moves

that we recommended against but we

weren't a major partner

and uh

uh that project was 60 million bucks 60

million you know so what did I learn

from that yeah entertainment real estate

is out why

we're in the business of financing other

people's Covenants

in the buildings we build right in

entertainment real estate they're using

the developers balance sheet to finance

their leases and so what do you mean by

that go a little deeper on that for

people because you were putting so much

money into their business yeah in tis

and improvements okay and tenant

allowance right it's when you give but

hundred dollars a foot or a hundred and

fifty dollars to make it look nice yeah

yeah so so that basically they weren't

taking money out of their pocket right

sure yeah and I became chairman of

credit at Laurentian Bank and I learned

a lot of lessons on the way through

about

you know

the credit and the quality of of the

user because it's not the developer in

the end it's the quality of all those

pieces yeah can you talk about how you

build such great relationships

particularly when you're at a young age

like 23 years old and you're asking for

a lot of money from these people how did

that happen like what was sort of the

what was your strategy there

I think underlying whatever you do to

build trust you have to have competence

and we had proven confidence and there's

the old expression you're only as good

as your last deal but as long as you

have a good track record to point to and

when you look at the fact that we've

built over 8 billion and maybe along the

way lost 60 or 80 million dollars in

real estate that's not too bad no no

um I will say there were a couple of

deals that we didn't make as much as we

thought we would because circumstances

changed

um

but you bring up a good point because to

me

the ability to cross the same Bridge

multiple times was more valuable than

how much money we pulled out in any one

deal can you explain that a bit yeah

um for example when I built my business

um and I'll give you a just a brief

interlude because it'll transition to

the next piece

in 1979 I was so blown away by what had

gone on here in Quebec that I had been

called I was 29 years old

I've been called by all kinds of

companies to come bceo do all kinds of

things

and I'd always said no I'm very happy

I'm making good money and at the time I

by by 79 I had made a million dollars

okay and that was very much in my goal

before I was 30 that I had made a

million bucks

um

but I forgot something

and I only remembered later and reeseman

reminded me

that I also had said that I wanted to

have my own business by the time I was

30. and that was

put away way back and very deep

so in at 29 I said to Richmond I said I

love you like a father

but I'm dying here because I grew like

this

and I'm growing like this right now I

need out of Quebec

and so I actually went through what

looked like a heart attack

in Florida in Florida

um I started the morning starting to

feel a lot like a parochial congestion

and I was lying in my bed at uh

10 o'clock at night talking to my wife

I felt like a horse was sitting on my

chest

and she screamed at me get an ambulance

and go to the hospital so I went to the

hospital and they checked me for a heart

attack and they said it's not a heart

attack you're having an anxiety attack

you must know what's causing it deal

with it or it will be a heart attack wow

and I went home and resigned it wow that

same day the next day right

and I wrote him a note and I said when

you've had a chance to read this because

I was really emotional about it

um

let me come and talk to you so

I talked to him and then I opened up and

I started getting flown to California

and

bellsberg in Vancouver billsburg was a

wonderful story because he flew me out

offered me president of first city

developments

uh 10 of the action bottom line uh 400

000 salary and I think I was pulling at

the time maybe a hundred and on and on

he takes me home to have dinner with his

wife

drives me back to the hotel and says I

withdraw my offer

I said why

he says I don't think you want to work

for anybody

wow

what'd you say I said I think you're

right I went home and opened the door

amazing what was it what was it about

that dinner that that that he figured it

out well he was just very incisive he

was very incisive and he said I really

feel like you're a guy that wants to do

your own thing and he knew you were a

[ __ ] he he knew where I was going and I

I developed quite a relationship with

him following that anyway long story

short

um I had been working on a deal with

ayata for a building on Peel Street

and I had acted as a consultant to

Richmond to keep it going because the

firm wasn't doing anything with it

and finally I said to reason I said your

whole company nobody's filling in for me

having left and I'm not coming back

he said well why don't we do it as

partners

and so we did a 50 50 deal we only had

50 000 deposit out on the land

and uh so we kept going forward and I

kept moving and

working on financing and getting things

organized long story short

he had a little bit of financial trouble

and he said well why don't you buy me a

so I said you know what Gene I said

let's go to zitter sibling's office yep

we'll sit with herb simpler who's that

that's the accounting firm yep they were

bought by Ian why okay eventually

and I said let's sit down and and

um

discuss price because I don't want to

take advantage

and I said so Gene what do you want

he said I want a million dollars for a

half interest on a fifty thousand dollar

deposit sounds rich

I said Gene

I tell you what I'm going to give you a

million one

and he looked at me and he said why I

said because I don't want you to ever be

able to say that I didn't give you more

than you asked for wow

and I did it herb said one said to me

John are you out of your mother yeah I

knew exactly what I was doing

I was tired of having been through the

business

joint venturing with other developers

and when you're drug venturing with

other developers there are many ways to

do things so you're arguing Style

in a partnership when that's not

complementary it's not complimentary

it's competing what's complementary was

for me to be able to bring Financial

money institutions to the table so they

had the money I had the know-how put

that together and be able to go do many

deals yeah the Venn diagram overlap is

too much you both have the same skill

set if you bring money if they bring

money and you bring the skill set you

actually form the best partnership

unless you're remarkable I mean million

one it's probably worth what 50 000 or

100 even if you're you're giving them a

premium I mean right so

what ended up happening

and it goes back to a question you asked

me earlier is I did a deal with North

American Life

who put up the million one to buy recent

so I didn't put out the money

I got the full development fee which I

didn't have to split with him and I

developed a relationship with North

American Life which Built My Career

because I did multiple deals with them

so many that have got to a point where

and I love the relationship so much

that I had befriended the financial uh

uh the CFO of the company

and I told him what I had in mind that

maybe I should sell 50 of the interest

in the company to North American and we

just keep going forward

Ori fidani built up a huge uh portfolio

with North American life so there was

the example and he said to me John don't

do it I said why he said you're going to

outgrow us before we outgrow you

you're going to have more deals than we

can service

diversify your relationships and so what

ended up happening

which goes back to your earlier question

I did half a dozen deals with North

American life I did half a dozen deals

with Great West Life I did 10 deals with

Aetna and they became my partners and

they all had different

kinds of deals that fit their mold and

so I say you know if this deal came

along I said well this one belongs to

Aetna and This one belongs to North

American life because it fits their mold

and there was no resentment and lawyers

were you know amazed they could send me

a bill for 1200 instead of 12 000 or 125

000 because it was the same document so

that in itself is absolutely amazing the

other thing that I find absolutely

amazing as we walked in here you showed

us uh what we call in my world a deal

Tombstone which is after a deal is done

everyone gets something to commemorate

it and the thing you showed me was this

three-dimensional chess yeah talk to us

about that well actually I want I have a

really interesting story that I want to

tie to this if I may so

um we did some research on this sort of

thing and I've been thinking about when

you said three-dimensional chess I think

a couple things clicked for me

um one of the people that I spoke to in

in anticipation of this interview was

Steve Kaplan from Reliance construction

and and I said Steve tell me some

stories of Jonathan and what's what what

like how do you explain Jonathan his

success his audacity

um and and how he built this incredible

company they said well the thing but

Jonathan is this he's like you know a

couple years ago Jonathan wanted me to

come and work on a deal in Toronto with

him and I didn't want to go to Toronto

this is Steve talking I didn't want to

Toronto and you know Jonathan kept

asking me and I said I don't want to go

to Toronto it's not my thing so Jonathan

said fine do me a favor just come for

the kind of the you know the dog and

pony show like we want to talk to some

bankers help me come and talk to the

bankers about it and so I go and

Jonathan I sell these bankers and they

were so impressed and Jonathan called me

and said great news we got the deal

we're gonna do this there's only one

issue they'll only do it if you do it

with me and then he said how could I say

no and he said I knew that entire time

it was always about Jonathan getting me

into the deal

that to me is three-dimensional chess

you knew exactly what you were doing you

saw all the different pieces of it and I

I just think that is there was another

piece to it though tell me yeah

and Steve will tell you today he's very

grateful for me having dragged him to

Toronto I mean we know that that it does

well no isn't that the Aurora building

that's the biggest residential Tower but

he he needed to come to Toronto so he

was not so reliant on Montreal

I have done billions of dollars with

Steve and since Sam aberman died from

divco

because I used to switch deals between

the two of them I had the same handshake

relationship with both of them

um and and and really literally a

handshake

um but Steve had all his eggs in

Montreal and a bit in Ottawa and I said

Steve that market is crying for you

you have such an opportunity in there to

be one of the large contractors there

we're getting out of general contracting

our own deals I'm prepared to give you

my staff

um because we don't want to carry them

anymore in between projects because we

got smashed with two million dollar

carry of all the key staff well the

project got delayed in 2008 because of

the debacle

um

and I knew Steve would fly but why did

you want I mean that's not your business

it's someone else's business because

Steve

and I have a trusted relationship that

goes back 30 years

if I wanted to do most of my business in

Toronto don't you want to have your own

General Contractors there by your side

yeah

and Steve has never screwed me

he is he runs his business the way I run

mine that's why we get along so well

um there's huge mutual respect up and

down the entire organization

um

I can tell you a story about Steve that

that would blow your mind

we had a project where Steve I brought

Steve in as a design build contractor

for Bill Canada on Nuns Island

we had to pull that project together

which was a quarter of a billion

we had 17 months to do it and we had to

pull together the provincial government

the federal government the port

authority and the City of Montreal

get everybody sitting at the same table

with 30 million dollars worth of Highway

infrastructure

um

normally you'd say well that's 10 years

right there right and you'd say my

attitude has always been if if everybody

wants to see something happen you can

put them down to the table and get

everybody to work together to make it

happen if somebody in the group doesn't

want to make it happen

you can negotiate all day long they'll

drag their heels and it won't get done

we got everybody into the right place

where something that might have taken 30

years to happen could happen now well

you did you brought them all into the

same room yeah or take us to that

meeting how like how do you that's like

because they all had the same vision

they didn't know how they were going to

get there but if we brought a 650 000

foot tenant that was going to pay taxes

and was going to make the whole economic

creation of it happen and work and and

allow the rest of the island to be built

and developed

by virtue of it

everybody was a winner and everybody saw

it

Steve came in

we had a relationship with Bill Canada

that was unbelievable

um

I was called into Sanctuary the year

before this is United Way in Quebec

United yeah

yeah so I was called in the year before

to head up the real estate division of

son trade and for me it was a bit going

backwards but I said I'd do it and uh I

told Daniel parrots who was my senior

guy from Montreal I said you're going to

learn and next year you're doing it he

said I don't like that stuff and anyway

lo and behold Daniel does it the next

year

three weeks into the job at sondrade and

Michael Sapia knocks on the door and

says how would you guys like to build

our headquarters on Manziel

Daniel comes to me says you know what I

get it

um so we

move forward on that Steve Kaplan

developed a construction schedule and

worked with us together on the designs

uh excavated out

16 acres in two weeks using mining

equipment

okay built a mountain took all the soil

with the big super shovels and those big

trucks with where the wheels are 10 feet

high he was going 24 7. okay

when the steel came in

the steel came in two million over a

budget

because the structural engineer had

miscalculated

and I hear about it and I picked up the

phone and I called Steve and I said

Steve that's not reasonable that you

should pick that up

I'll pick it up or I'll split it with

you he said never you mind that's mine

wow

we got to go back to a story

because I spoke to your friend Mark and

he goes you got to tell them to talk

about the Royal trust story okay

so World trust started with a guy named

Tommy Tucker

and

uh we developed a close relationship

with them and built a building for them

on York which was the HSBC building I

think hspc is moving now but they

basically we built that for them

developed a close relationship heard all

the stories about what was going on in

Montreal with the world trust building

here and that people were feeling that

they were getting

building sickness syndrome and they were

losing tenants and I said Tom you know

what's going on and you're not managing

it properly

could I buy it

I said could I buy a half interest

because I never dreamed they would sell

the whole thing he said no you want it

you can buy the whole thing

I went wow

so we developed a letter of intent

and uh lo and behold

uh the deal looks like it's gonna happen

but they had been very clear that I was

not allowed to discuss the details of

this with anybody

anybody meant including my bankers

because it was didn't normally it would

exclude your Bankers right but how are

you going to get the financing though if

you don't yeah exactly so we get to a

point in the deal

and the deal at this point is 60 million

um

I get dropped

and no reason

and I'm feeling really anxious and very

bad about this

and Tom said John put your head down

trust me this is going to work out okay

but we have to go through and he didn't

give me details I found it later they

had a client that had 100 million on

deposit and who made it very clear they

were going to yank their deposit if they

didn't get a chance of buying the

building

and so if you wouldn't know anything

about the multiplier of on Capital

that's probably two billion dollars

worth of capital for them for the trust

um

so later on things start to

open up a bit

um

they changed the price to 65 million and

I am really annoyed

um

I get

told this and I digest it and but

doesn't mean much because I don't have

control of the building

so around

March 25th 1987.

I get a phone call

you still want to do the deal yes

uh

are you prepared to do it

and sit down and knuckle down and get it

done

and nobody leaves the table till it's

done I said well that's my kind of

language yeah

so because I used to have a habit at

four in the afternoon

I would say and all the lawyers in the

room I said nobody's going home until

this is done smart because what's

unreasonable at 4 pm is very reasonable

4 AM

anyway

that's great long story short

we sat down Friday afternoon at four

o'clock

in the lawyer's offices we did not come

up for air until Tuesday wow we had

clothes sent in meals sent in showers in

the in the in the offices

and we got everything done

and

um they said well how are we going to

have you do due diligence

without because if you walk away from

this it's not a good sign in the

Montreal Market

I said well your property Management's

so bad

why don't you just give us a property

management contract and we'll use that

to do our due diligence but the beauty

of that is that when we buy there'll be

an easy transition

property manager so they said great that

looks fine in fact I even had a broker

call me and said hey we heard the

Japanese are buying the world trust

buildings oh [ __ ] I can't believe it

anyway

sure enough

we end up going to the closing

so we go to the closing I don't know

Sherman tell you this part of the story

no no you tell me this you just said he

said he wouldn't tell me any stories ask

John

so we go to the closing

and

um I told everybody on my side all the

Champagnes all organized and all the

pastries and everything sitting on the

side

and we start at seven o'clock in the

morning I had to organize myself because

there was a trade for the money in New

York at 11 o'clock so everything had to

be done by then

I was shaking like a leaf thinking that

here I am 37 years old buying the Royal

trust building for 65 million bucks okay

my hands were is this the biggest deal

you've done at this point for sure okay

bye I won't he's 37 years old think

about that I mean

okay so

I go in and there's a pile of documents

all the way down the table

no negotiation to be had just sign so we

do that for close to two and a half

hours

and the treasurer is there from head

office says could I have the envelope

please

send it across the table the check

and I hear a shrink

Y what the [ __ ] is this

I said you can swear in our show it's

our show I said what's your problem sir

Jesus

this is a credit card

slip he said you can't buy the Royal

trust building on a credit card

I said it you're kidding me

I had written one building 65 million

I'd signed it yeah I said could you

please call for a authorization

and it was a gold Royal trust credit

card

he said to me you got to be kidding me

you put all these lawyers and everybody

here

and you're trying to close this on a

Visa card

I said yes

he said I said I have a gold roller

trust me

I'm I'm buying the Royal trust buildings

what could be better you haven't paid

for a flight since he said Cornelson is

going to have a [ __ ] fit if he finds a

I said well I'm really really sorry he

said well what would just ask you to do

this I said I'm glad you asked that

I said you know what

they sent me my bill yesterday

and I paid it and I brought it up to

date

that means I won't get another bill for

30 days

that's worth one percent one percent is

six hundred and fifty thousand dollars

and I said and by the way I don't know

whether you know it or not but on a gold

Royal Trust Credit Card you get a one

percent discount

that's 1.3 million you guys took 5

million out of my pocket I'm taking 1.3

out of yours call for authorization

well the guy looked like he was going to

have a heart attack he has to call

someone and say I needed authors for 65

million dollars

I said and Tom Tucker was in the room

and he knew me well enough to put his

hand up to his face

and laugh behind but knew I was having a

time of my life with this guy

and I finally said you know what the

difference is between you and me he says

what's that I said I'm a man of my word

here's the check she just [ __ ] and

[ __ ] with them perfect perfect that's

hilarious

so invest in your employees in every way

that you reasonably can to build your

business

and the next piece is give it back pay

it forward

there are so many ways to do it get your

employees to get involved the defeat the

strength of the defeat is it's ours it's

not we're working for the children's

hospital or the Jewish General Hospital

or son trade or

Jewish Community this or that

this belongs to us as David and I think

of a building our own companies we also

think about building with purpose and

actually building far beyond just making

money but also having an impact and one

of the I mean Daffy candrell has been

around for a long time the impact is 33

years 33 years

yeah 33 years and I think this year

brings us to close to 24 million dollars

it's incredible

um

it started we wanted to do a charity run

and we were in the early days thinking

Nuns Island

uh that we would do it from downtown

Montreal across the bridge to Nuns

Island and and run a race

lo and behold uh 30

three years ago Susan ends up with her

first bout of cancer

like most men I look at the doctor and

say what can I do to make a difference

how can I fix it yeah how to fix it for

sure

and he said you can't there's nothing

you can do but he said the one thing you

can do is develop money for research so

that other people don't get this disease

and that we make advances

and that left a big impression I went

back to the office and my current CEO

who

left us for a bit

20 years but is back

was part of the initiation of that

and we started it as a fun run

uh

costumes were part of the whole thing

for a good 20 years

um and in those days I guess we were

bringing in about a quarter of a million

dollars and it was meant for business

and it was for business to show it had a

heart yeah and the cancer really

affected a lot of families and there was

an opportunity to do something good we

split it between uh you know

Mcgill and university of moriale

50 50 to their respective cancer

research centers

and uh

uh I have to say I mean this year we'll

write a check for a million bucks to

each of them it's amazing what your

friend says Jonathan Works 100 hours a

week and 40 of them are for community

that's about right yeah what other

community projects are you most proud of

um

Mata uh Federation cja I just finished

a great run I was given a hundred

million dollar goal uh

uh with uh Mitch Garber

um and it was to be a two-year campaign

special during covid and we did it we

finished it

the two-year campaign in six months wow

uh we had a month and a half of extra

work the following year to close that

year off and we brought it to 131

million Jonathan you know Big Shot is

really about it's an archive it's about

taking these wonderful stories from

these incredible people like yourself by

the way this credit card story is up

there

these amazing amazing with these

incredible options that's definitely up

there it's amazing but you know we wanna

the problem with these stories is our

ephemeral and they've inspired Harley

and I they've inspired a whole

generation of entrepreneurs

and we want to capture them and if

somebody in many ways this is a time

capsule and so if somebody picks up this

recording 100 years from now and here's

this what what do you want them to take

away what do you want what's that

message that you want them the lessons

that you've learned

I see it in my my speech at uh

graduation

first and foremost be passionate about

what you're doing

don't worry so much about the money the

money will follow if you're really truly

passionate about it and if it doesn't

you'll find something else

but be really passionate about what

you're doing so that it's not going to

work it's going to play

you know my kids said Dad at 60 when are

you going to retire I said I did 20

years ago they said what are you talking

about you still work like a dog I said I

played like a dog

because for me every day it was a joy

and it still is a joy even though I'm

removed from CEO I'm now CEO you know

what's he always Chief opinion office

I'm sure your CEO loves that yeah but

I love the business and so because and I

love business not just my real estate

business I love business and many

different things that we've done and I

love watching other people's success and

making them successful if I can

so first Passion

second

put the right people around you and

share with them let them become wealthy

with you

when I I built my company

giving 20 not of the company but 20

percent of the action in the buildings

and the real estate deals deal by deal

ten percent to head office and 10

percent of the field office so each city

was a field office

ten percent went to that City and 10

percent went to the head office guys who

supported them invest in your employees

invest in the organization and make them

create a family create you know I can

tell you I invited all my employees up

to my country home every year

for an extravagant dinner and a wild day

in the country we did crazy things

Dragon boating sand sculptures all kinds

of stuff that was team building oriented

my wife used to say God when are you

going to stop this I said I'm never

going to stop it because it's part of

the employee's understanding that I care

so

invest in your employees in every way

that you reasonably can to build your

business

and the next piece is give it back pay

it forward

so

I think that's a full life what's a rich

life

a rich life to me is not how much money

you have

it's how you feel in your soul

and if you feel good in that if you can

look yourself in the mirror and say

have I done

Good Deeds am I doing the right things

if I'm worth 100 million less or 100

million more it's not going to change my

life but it will change other people's

and you know I'm trying the other thing

I would say and I've done it and I'm

executing on it now and I would say to

you it's the best advice I could give

other people

I'm the executor of my own will in my

lifetime

and that's a joy yeah yeah didn't you

have a professor at Concordia that said

don't something like don't invest in

machines invest in people yeah it's

machines depreciate people appreciate

invest in people right that's my

underlying theme

I think it deserves a test

okay I'm for that cheers thank you for

sitting down with us this has been so

much fun

[Music]

now we're here

[Music]

Started From The Bottom not a whole team