Million Dollar Accounting Firm in 24 Months

Summary

In this episode of the Growing Firm Podcast, Dave Costello interviews Greg O'Brien, founder of a virtual tax and accounting firm. Greg shares his journey from a solo operation to a team of seven, serving clients across four states with a projected $1 million run rate in just 24 months. He discusses adopting a virtual model, value-based billing, and leveraging SEO and Google advertising for growth. Greg emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, mentorship, and strategic investments in self-education to rapidly scale his firm.

Takeaways

• 🚀 Greg O'Brien, founder and CEO of Jetpack Workflow, emphasizes the importance of self-education and continuous learning for business growth.
• 📈 Greg's firm experienced rapid growth from a solo operation to a team of seven, with clients in multiple states and a projected one million dollar run rate within two years.
• 💼 The firm's model is based on virtual accounting and tax planning services, with a focus on forward-thinking and tech-savvy clients.
• 🌐 Greg leveraged SEO and Google advertising to grow the firm's online presence and generate inbound leads, investing in these areas early in the business's lifecycle.
• 📊 The firm uses a value billing system rather than hourly billing, with an average monthly client fee ranging between $1,500 to $2,000.
• 🔍 Greg started the business with cold outreach and has since expanded to include word-of-mouth referrals and an optimized online presence.
• 💡 The decision to invest in a professional website and SEO was crucial in attracting clients and establishing the firm's online credibility.
• 🛠 Greg's firm uses a grading system (A, B, C clients) to manage workload and capacity planning, ensuring a balanced distribution of work among team members.
• 🗓 The firm conducts weekly meetings to review overdue tasks and projects, maintaining a transparent and accountable workflow.
• 🎯 Greg has been proactive in setting Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) for his team, focusing on deliverables, client satisfaction, and continuous improvement.
• 📚 Greg recommends a variety of resources for business and personal development, including business books, podcasts, and coaching programs, to foster a growth mindset.

Q & A

Who is the host of the podcast and what is his role?

The host of the podcast is Dave Costello, who is the founder and CEO of Jetpack Workflow and also the host of the Growing Firm Podcast.

What significant achievement has Greg O'Brien mentioned about his firm?

Greg O'Brien mentioned that his firm has grown from just himself to a team of seven, with clients in four different states, 100 virtual, and they are on track to have a one million dollar run rate within 24 months of being in business.

What is unique about Greg O'Brien's firm's structure?

Greg O'Brien's firm is unique in that it is a forward-thinking tax planning and virtual accounting/CFO firm with a completely virtual and remote team, headquartered in Boston, Massachusetts.

What business model does Greg O'Brien's firm primarily serve?

Greg O'Brien's firm primarily serves tech-forward clients, which include startups and businesses that use technology to run their operations, not necessarily limited to the tech industry.

How does Greg O'Brien's firm price its services?

The firm uses a value billing system with an onboarding fee for tax planning and monthly packages that are tailored to the client's needs and the engagement required from the firm.

What is the average monthly fee for Greg O'Brien's firm's clients?

The average monthly fee for Greg O'Brien's firm's clients is between $1,500 and $2,000, which has been increasing as the firm grows and focuses more on certain clients.

How did Greg O'Brien initially acquire clients for his firm?

Greg O'Brien initially acquired clients through cold outreach, looking for new startups in tech magazines and sending emails to offer help with their first C corp tax return.

What role does online presence play in Greg O'Brien's firm growth strategy?

Online presence plays a significant role in Greg O'Brien's firm growth strategy through SEO, Google advertising, and having a robust website that is optimized for certain keywords to attract inbound leads.

What was the financial commitment made by Greg O'Brien for his firm's website and SEO?

Greg O'Brien committed to a monthly fee of around $200 for SEO optimization and about $1,000 for Google AdWords to grow the online presence of his firm.

How does Greg O'Brien's firm manage its team's workload and capacity?

The firm uses a grading system for clients (A, B, C) to assess the workload and ensures a balanced distribution among team members. They also have a pipeline review every Monday to assess capacity and plan for hiring based on upcoming work.

What is the approach to hiring at Greg O'Brien's firm?

Greg O'Brien's firm hires based on anticipated workload rather than waiting until an employee is overwhelmed. They start with contract work to test the waters before offering full-time positions.

How does Greg O'Brien ensure his firm remains forward-thinking and innovative?

Greg O'Brien ensures his firm remains forward-thinking by investing in self-education, attending coaching programs, listening to various accounting and business podcasts, and reading business books.

What resources does Greg O'Brien recommend for someone looking to grow their accounting firm?

Greg O'Brien recommends various resources including the 'Growing Firm Podcast', books like 'Rich Dad Poor Dad', and being a member of CTC for tax coaching, as well as engaging in business and mindset books, and listening to a variety of accounting podcasts.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Introduction to Guest Greg O'Brien's Business Growth

Dave Costello introduces the guest, Greg O'Brien, who has experienced significant business growth since using Jetpack Workflow. Greg's firm has expanded from a single person to a team of seven, serving clients across four states with a projected one million dollar run rate in just 24 months. The discussion aims to explore Greg's strategies, lessons learned, and future plans for his virtual tax planning and accounting firm.

05:00

🌐 Greg's Virtual Firm and Client Acquisition Strategies

Greg O'Brien discusses his virtual firm's structure, with employees spread across the country and a focus on serving tech-forward clients. Initially targeting startups in the Boston area, Greg's firm has evolved to cater to clients using technology in their businesses. He shares his experiences with cold outreach for client acquisition and the importance of a strong online presence through SEO and Google advertising. Greg also details his firm's service offerings, including tax planning, compliance, and virtual CFO services, and mentions the transition from hourly billing to value billing.

10:00

📈 Investment in Online Presence and Team Expansion

Greg talks about the early investment in his firm's online presence, including the development of a website with a modern and tech-savvy design. He explains the use of SEO and Google AdWords to attract clients and emphasizes the importance of integrating these strategies for maximum online impact. Greg also discusses the process of hiring, starting with finding talent through job boards and eventually relying on referrals from within the team. The conversation highlights the challenges of capacity planning and the importance of hiring as an investment rather than a last-minute necessity.

15:01

🛠 Systems and Processes for Efficient Team Management

The discussion shifts to the internal systems and processes that Greg has implemented to manage his growing team. He talks about using Jetpack Workflow for task management and the importance of having detailed process guides for each client. Greg explains the grading system for clients (A, B, C) to balance workloads among team members and the significance of regular Monday meetings to review overdue tasks and ensure a clean Jetpack start to the week.

20:02

💼 Developing a Performance-Based Compensation Model

Greg shares insights into his firm's compensation model, which is based on key performance indicators (KPIs). The model includes metrics for timely delivery of client work, technical review accuracy, and customer service. He explains how the firm tracks these KPIs and uses them for feedback and continuous improvement. The conversation also touches on the importance of learning from mistakes and ensuring that team members are self-correcting and growing in their roles.

25:02

🚀 Accelerating Growth Through Continuous Learning and Iteration

Greg emphasizes the importance of continuous learning and self-education in accelerating his firm's growth. He talks about his involvement in various coaching programs, memberships, and his commitment to reading business books and listening to podcasts. Greg shares his approach to absorbing content from various sources and applying the insights to his business, focusing on value pricing, subscription models, and platform models as key areas of study.

30:02

📚 Recommended Resources for Forward-Thinking Firms

In the final part of the interview, Greg recommends resources for those interested in building a forward-thinking firm. He suggests starting with business podcasts, particularly those focused on accounting practices, and emphasizes the value of books like 'Rich Dad Poor Dad' for developing a growth mindset. Greg encourages business owners to invest in themselves through education and to apply the ideas they learn to their businesses for significant returns.

35:03

📧 Closing Remarks and Call for Stories from Growing Firms

Dave concludes the interview by inviting listeners with inspiring stories of business growth to share their experiences on the podcast. He encourages potential guests to reach out via email and promises to feature stories from firms at various stages of development. Dave thanks Greg for his valuable insights and for being a part of the show, highlighting the energy and value derived from such interviews.

Keywords

💡Jetpack Workflow

Jetpack Workflow is a tool mentioned in the video that the guest, Greg O'Brien, has been using since the inception of his firm. It is a system designed to streamline workflow processes for accounting and tax planning firms, which Greg credits for helping his firm grow from a single-person operation to a team of seven. The tool is used for task management and is integral to the operational efficiency discussed in the video.

💡Greg O'Brien

Greg O'Brien is the guest in the video, the founder of a virtual accounting and tax planning firm. His journey of growing his firm from a solo operation to a team-based business within 24 months is a central theme of the video. Greg's approach to business, including his use of technology and virtual models, is highlighted as a key to his rapid growth and success.

💡Growing Firm Podcast

The 'Growing Firm Podcast' is the platform where the conversation takes place, hosted by Dave Costello, the founder and CEO of Jetpack Workflow. The podcast focuses on business growth strategies, and in this episode, it features Greg's story of scaling his firm rapidly, making it a central concept in the video's narrative.

💡Virtual Accounting

Virtual Accounting refers to the practice of providing accounting services remotely without the need for physical presence. Greg's firm operates on this model, with employees spread across different states, which is a key aspect of his business growth strategy. It allows for flexibility in hiring talent from various locations.

💡Tax Planning

Tax Planning is one of the core services offered by Greg's firm. It involves strategic financial planning to minimize tax liabilities. In the video, Greg discusses how tax planning and compliance services are fundamental to his firm's offerings and client value proposition.

💡Value Billing

Value Billing is a pricing strategy where services are priced based on the value they provide to the client rather than on a time-and-materials basis. Greg mentions that his firm uses a value billing system, which is a key differentiator from traditional hourly billing models in the accounting industry.

💡Cold Outreach

Cold Outreach is a marketing strategy where businesses initiate contact with potential clients who have not previously expressed interest. Greg used this method at the start of his business to acquire clients, which is an important aspect of his growth story discussed in the video.

💡SEO (Search Engine Optimization)

SEO refers to the process of improving a website's visibility on search engines. Greg mentions investing in SEO to grow his online presence and attract inbound leads, which is a critical component of his firm's marketing strategy.

💡Google AdWords

Google AdWords is an online advertising service where advertisers pay to display brief advertisements. Greg discusses using Google AdWords to generate leads for his firm, highlighting the importance of targeted advertising in his growth strategy.

💡Client Lifecycle

The term 'client lifecycle' refers to the stages a client goes through when interacting with a business, from initial contact to becoming a long-term customer. Greg talks about nurturing client relationships and the importance of client retention, which is central to the growth and sustainability of his firm.

💡KPIs (Key Performance Indicators)

KPIs are quantifiable measurements used to track performance against objectives. In the video, Greg discusses using KPIs to evaluate his project managers' performance, focusing on timely deliverables, accuracy, and customer service, which is a key management practice in his firm.

Highlights

Greg O'Brien, founder of a virtual accounting firm, grew his business from a solo operation to a team of seven in just 24 months.

The firm is on track to achieve a one million dollar run rate within two years of operation.

Greg's firm focuses on forward-thinking tax planning and virtual CFO services, targeting tech-forward clients.

The firm is headquartered in Boston but operates entirely virtually, with employees spread across the United States.

Greg initially served startups in the Boston area but has since expanded to serve tech-forward clients nationwide.

The firm offers tax planning, compliance services, and virtual accounting or CFO services, tailored to client needs.

Billing is done on a value-based system, with an onboarding fee for tax planning and monthly packages for ongoing services.

The average monthly fee per client is between $1500 and $2000, reflecting the firm's focus on high-value services.

Greg started the business with cold outreach, targeting tech startups and offering help with their first tax returns.

Word of mouth and referrals have been significant drivers of growth, alongside SEO and Google advertising.

Greg invested in a robust website and SEO from the early stages of his business, recognizing the importance of an online presence.

The firm spends around $200 per month on SEO and $1000 per month on Google AdWords to attract and convert leads.

Greg emphasizes the importance of hiring as an investment, not just an expense, and the need to plan for future capacity.

The firm uses a grading system to manage client workload, categorizing clients as A, B, or C based on complexity and needs.

Monday meetings are a key part of the firm's operations, reviewing overdue tasks and setting realistic deadlines.

Compensation is tied to key performance indicators (KPIs), including timely delivery of work, quality of work, and client satisfaction.

Greg attributes his rapid growth to continuous learning, mentorship, and a mindset of investing in himself and his business.

He recommends books like 'Rich Dad Poor Dad' and resources like the Certified Tax Coach program for business mindset and growth.

Greg encourages business owners to absorb as much content as possible and apply it to their operations, focusing on actionable insights.

Transcripts

hey everybody dave costello here founder

and ceo of jetpack workflow and host of

the growing firm podcast today's guest

is greg

o'brien now the interesting thing about

greg

is uh and this is the cool thing about

our community by the way is he shot me

an email

like a month or two ago and he said that

he's been listening to the podcast he's

been using jetpack workflow since day

one

and he said that he's been able to grow

from essentially just himself

to now a team of seven uh

you know clients in four different

states 100 virtual

they're on track to have a one million

dollar run rate and they've been in

business for 24 months

so this is this is a perfect area for us

to figure out you know

what is greg doing what lessons has he

learned that maybe

he wouldn't repeat and what are some

things that he would double down on

you know during this journey and then

the next stage going into

2021 uh so really excited to have greg

on the show

i really appreciate you reaching out and

i'm excited to explore the story with

you

thanks for having me david it's good to

be here i'm a big listener as you said

and

uh fans so it's cool to be on their side

yeah yeah absolutely

well really really quick just to set the

baseline you know we said that

you had yet seven uh team of seven uh

talk us a little bit about the firm

who do you serve what do you what do you

offer them what does that look like

yeah so uh so my firm we consider

ourselves a

forward thinking tax planning in a

virtual accounting

virtual cfo firm we're headquartered in

boston mass but our employees are

completely virtual and remote so

of the of those seven people i'm the

only one actually physically in boston

so everyone else is spread out

throughout the country

uh let's see so we have utah indiana

texas two in pennsylvania

uh one in arkansas so continues to grow

um trying to grow

it um that way through the virtual model

so

pre-covered i was a big believer in the

virtual model kind of studying some

other virtual firms out there

new concept but kind of adopted it from

from day one

and um obviously there's pros and cons

to it there's hurdles but in the end

i've really

enjoyed doing things virtually i mean

we'll continue to do it that way

um if you know if the right person comes

along that's happens to me in boston

we'll hire him but

for now we're kind of you know looking

for for talent uh anywhere

and and your and your clientele do you

do you niche down is it in the boston

area

what do you provide to them how do you

price it you know what does that look

like

yeah good question so when we first

started my

my kind of um thesis was to to serve

startups

in and around the boston area so in

boston there's a lot of you know the

harvard mit

tech clients pharmaceutical clients

science-based clients so that's where

the ideas started

so we initially niched down to that and

then we've kind of morphed over the last

couple years into

really the way i look at it is um tech

forward uh clients so they don't have to

be in the tech industry but

people that are using technology to run

their business you know whether that's a

digital marketing uh

company or it's a pure tech client so

anyone that's kind of a new age business

model

we're looking to work with them now as

far as services so

that's another thing over time we've

really narrowed that down as well so

two big things we're providing is one uh

tax planning

and compliance services for those

clients and then two virtual accounting

or virtual cfo services depending on how

how large they're in their needs and as

far as billing so all this is done

um on on a value billing system so again

that's something we started from

day one so i didn't have to eliminate or

change any any habits of hourly billing

so we started with the

that uh kind of concept at first and

it's obviously evolved over time but

um our clients came in there's generally

an onboarding

uh fee for for tax planning just to get

them start to get them set up and um

onto our systems and

put really a forward-thinking plan in

place and then two

they go into our monthly packages in

which we offer a couple different

packages to them

but they are truly value priced to that

client depending on what they need

um and the engagement that it's gonna be

necessary on our side

got it what do you think is the average

what's the average client pay you a

month

good question so over time um i think

probably everyone's learned this lesson

but when you first start um you know

someone that says they're going to pay

you a monthly fee looks pretty good

no matter what that is and then as you

get larger

um you know you have to change that so

i i think right now are probably our

average monthly fee

somewhere between 1500 and two thousand

a month

um it's been it's been creeping up that

way um and

it's been difficult to to you know to

turn some of the

um you know the five to seven hundred

dollar monthly clients down because

there's definitely a good place for them

but as we've kind of expanded and got

more busy we've had it be a little more

narrowly focused um

um onto certain clients that we want to

work with and we can offer some of these

more

forward-thinking kind of cfo services um

as well so you know it varies but you

know we're trying to push that average

up as we as we grow

yeah awesome well i mean and and i mean

there's so much we could dig into i mean

but at a high level

a lot of growth two years couple things

come to mind the first one is how are

you getting these clients

i mean this is pretty amazing growth

right yeah good question so so when i

first started like you know

my journey i originally kind of thought

the way to enter the industry was

through um

acquisition so i looked at a couple

firms and

you know retiring practitioners locally

and i just wasn't

i don't know it didn't click for me i

didn't understand their their model and

why things were

like they were there's very little

profitability so a couple advisors in my

life said hey

you know don't do that you can just do

it yourself so

um i really started from day one um on

cold outreach to

i would look for you know in these you

know tech magazines around here

hey a new startup formed right i would

just you know

internet sleuth figure out their owner's

email address send an email saying hey

do you need help with your first c corp

tax return something simple like that

and amazingly a lot of them said yeah

like they're kind of like how do you

even know about us so

um and to this day you know those three

first clients i got

they're still clients um they just

started with a cold outreach now they're

they're pretty good monthly

um clients we have so that's how it

started obviously

um it's morphed but there's been

obviously the internal um

growth that's come uh just through the

word of mouth and referrals

um and as things have grown it's been

nice because you know um we've picked up

some relationships on the on the west

coast so we've

developed a nice little niche out um

southern california

and then um clients more locally have

just have spun off now

the second kind of way we've uh we've

really grown is through

um online through you know seo um and

in google advertising so i i do believe

you know it does work you have to invest

in it but

um you know the more you grow that

online presence um

through blogging uh through you know

having a robust website

and having um you know paying someone to

do seo if you don't know how to do it

i truly think that does work and it does

lead to a lot of inbound leads um

and you know when we look back and track

where does client x come from you know

i'm amazed sometimes that they're

at this point only two years in they may

be a second or third generation client

you know from

client one has led to two three four

clients right and they may have come in

off of a cold internet lead so

so definitely trying to you know keep

the online presence growing

yeah and and i mean it's interesting

right you go to your website and we'll

link it up gregobrinecpa.com it looks

like you're optimizing for

boston mass accounting and tax services

but i mean

i'm assuming if i click around to cfo

services it looks like every subpage

in your website is really trying to be

optimized for a certain keyword locally

or in the industry and you know so so

let me ask you this because i mean i

think there's a lot of great things

going with your website

what what was the financial commitment

you made to either setting up this

website

and or what do you spend a month on seo

slash

adwords yeah it's a good question so i

from day

one i knew that website was gonna be

important um just from my industry

research a lot of

prospects uh and people would tell me

you know almost every cpa out there has

a lousy website and

you know i look around i'm like okay

there's a lot of websites

um that are old you know or lacking so i

saw that as an opportunity so

i came across a company called

clientwise and

they're the ones who developed my

website did it a great job

um i had a lot of custom control of it

so you know i wanted to look and feel a

certain way

you know we're we're working with a lot

of um younger business owners and

millennial age business owners so i

wanted to have kind of a

new age vibe to it as well and kind of a

tech vibe to it

so they were great with that custom

control now

as things grew i've grown with them as

well so so i pay them um for seo and

it's it's probably

around 200 bucks a month to optimize the

keywords on the website

like you said sometimes you look and

there's these random words

on pages but they're doing that right to

to grow this seo presence which

i'm certainly not an expert in but i

understand why they're doing it

um and then second so google adwords

probably spent uh about a thousand

dollars a month on that and

i that what i've learned from that is

that if you crank the dial up you

certainly will get more leads

and the difficult part is making sure

that your ads are niched down enough

so that you're not getting leads you

know for example

um we're not we're not really trying to

um attract

just 10 40 preparation clients um if the

ads aren't structured properly

i don't want someone to type in you know

personal tax return and then my ad to

show up right away because then they'll

it'll just be an unqualified lead so

definitely learning more about that has

been key but i i do think that you know

if those two things are integrated

properly it can really grow your online

presence

and and how far was your business along

so you started with with cold outreach

uh which which is so amazing by the way

you just like you know don't over

complicate it

you pick pick a market and then just

just work your butt off right

yeah by the way i was i was operating

under a gmail account no like business

even registered yet it was just pure

high side hustles like let's test the

market type of thing so

you'd be amazed you know 20 25 year old

business owners

they're looking they need somebody too

right and you know they're not

necessarily

their first tax returns not top of mind

um and just found an opportunity to get

in front of them

and at what stage was the business at

like revenue wise when you said okay i'm

gonna start investing

like a thousand bucks a month or i want

to go deeper into the website

was that in the first year first half of

the year or was it after

year one where you got some revenue you

said okay let's pour it back into

marketing probably the first half of the

first year actually um because i think i

saw right away

um the opportunity and i remember

specifically

a client so you know i was running the

business at first using just my cell

phone number

i remember one day a client came in

through text message and you know he

texted me saying

hey i have this online startup i like

your website and all this stuff

uh and we hit it off he actually was

local we met and he

about 25 year old kid but i was i was

just shocked i'm like wow

this person just found me on the

internet sent me a text message

and you know then became a very valuable

client to me and he's now led to several

other clients

and that kind of like that was probably

in month three or four and i just kind

of at that point

really started researching more and

learning more about seo learning more

about

adwords and growing the online presence

and and from there i just said hey you

know what

i stopped looking at that as an expense

and i started looking as an investment

so

if i can spend a thousand dollars a

month then i get i'm getting several

thousand dollars back it's kind of a

no-brainer

yeah if you get like one client from

that one client with

one client one quarter from that

right because you know an average client

for if we have them on a subscription

model

they should be staying at least five

years i would think

i haven't gotten that far but you know

five plus years so so yeah i mean

it's worth that investment if you're

confident you're gonna be able to retain

a client for that long

yeah well on the flip side so you're

getting all these you're getting all

these deals you're getting all these

leads you're getting new clients coming

on board things are going well you wanna

run a virtual firm

you know how how did you start uh

sourcing talent how did you start

sourcing the team

what are what are some good techniques

you found and you to it to attract high

quality

candidates whether that's great job

boards you found or pockets or just

ways to structure the the the job

description where you get good

candidates

yeah so i think in probably the middle

of uh my first year i had enough going

on where i said you know what i can't

really do much this myself anymore

i had one kind of part-time bookkeeper

but he was definitely not someone that

wanted to be full-time so

started really just kind of like you

said um looking on the internet

um on indeed and different different job

boards and came across

um somebody that actually owned his own

bookkeeping firm at the time in

pennsylvania

it just started you know giving him some

contract work taking on more work and

we just really became good friends and

good partners through that um

that kind of test work and then

eventually convinced him

probably at the end of year one maybe a

little over a year in

to come out come on as my first

full-time employee um

that's certainly a you know it's

certainly a big

leap of faith um from the business

owner's perspective right going from

having a a job to starting your own

business to within a year like now

hiring somebody else and

providing for their family providing for

their livelihood so it's certainly a

a stressful period to think about but

you know i just kind of took that leap

of faith i knew the value he would bring

i knew that that first employee

would really let me let go a little bit

um

take one little baby set back and start

focusing more on growth so

i think employee number one is a tough

decision to make for people

um but it was probably the best decision

i've made so far um

you know if i didn't if i delayed any

longer i'd be further behind than i am

now so

you know making that leap of faith was

was really important

yeah so so what i'm hearing is you you

got to test the waters by

you found this individual as a

contractor and then

it started working out so well you you

proposed you know the full-time gig

they came on board they're from

pennsylvania which is obviously state

where

awesome people come from yep um but

the um how'd you get second third fourth

fifth

um you know after that were they all

contract

that led to full time or was there any

pure like we need to hire somebody

full-time next week

yeah so so um that's something i'll

admit i was not prepared for so

i i i think that at that stage it was

kind of one step at a time so i had

employee one i said that'll probably

last another year i said we'll probably

have

you know just another just one person

for the year

um and at that time i was really really

focused on we have to i knew from you

know listening to podcasts to

researching from everything that we need

to have systems systems in place

so i i had been using um jetpack

actually since

when i was a solopreneur right it's a

it's a little different

using it by yourself personally looping

someone else and so

um i kind of turned the remains of that

over to him um to allow myself

to go sell more now the

so he now is our you know our wizard of

it

so i learned that you know okay

i can let go of this and go sell but the

lesson i really did learn was i was not

prepared for how fast the growth was

going to happen

and how quickly um that first employee

could come to capacity

so because i was just kind of testing

the waters and then probably about three

three months of his after his he was in

full time he kind of came to me and said

hey look

i'm i'm you know up to my eyes right now

like we need to look for somebody else

but by the time

that someone says that to you it's it's

pretty late right because

then you're talking about four to six

weeks to hire somebody

them to give notice and whatnot so

so employee number two was certainly um

a scramble um and that was sourced um

i believe i believe through indeed um

and

and then employee two referred to

employee three they were they knew

each other from high school which was

convenient and it went from there but

the big lesson

definitely was capacity um and

pre-hiring right and kind of looking at

hiring as an investment

having confidence to hire versus waiting

until someone

is too busy because you don't no one

wants to to live like that or

no employee wants to kind of kind of

live their life like that either so

that was a good learning lesson just

kind of realizing that

you got to plan ahead um and realize

that you can't wait till someone's um up

to their eyeballs to start looking for

the next hire you got to kind of always

be looking higher yeah and what is that

calculation for you is it something

between you look at the sales pipeline

you look at what could potentially be

coming in

and then is there is there a certain

capacity you know it could be hard or it

could just be

more of a feeling but it's like you know

when your team hits

on average 80 capacity and you have a

healthy pipeline do you start looking or

is it 50

is it 90 like how do you think about

that i i

you know 75 and the difficult part is

and um we've been working on this for a

while now trying to solidify because

in my head what i'd really like to know

is you know um so each of our

accountants we call them project

managers so

how many clients could each project

manager handle now

for the work we do i we think it's

somewhere between

15 and 20. um the issue is not every

client is the same right so we've come

up with kind of a grading system

we call them a clients b client c

clients and that may have to do with

what agreement they're on and also have

to do with the industry they're in how

much

you know works involved um you know

there might be a small business that has

5000 transactions a month that's

different than a large business with

five transactions so

we try to grade them out there and then

balance the workload between people

um but yes so we we have um a pipeline

so you know every monday when we're

talking we look at the pipeline together

um and say okay you know this project

manager x or y

have capacity yes or no and once i see

that capacity you know getting to

hey they can only take on maybe two more

clients that's when you know i have to

start

looking for the next person or maybe

regenerating the conversations with some

other candidates in the past that were

finalists

so um definitely definitely trying to be

more uh

forward thinking with the hiring right

now yeah well

are you are you so do you use the point

systems as a proxy for capacity or do

you track like budgeted time

like jetpack so we don't we don't um

we don't really track time at all um the

there's occasionally certain projects

that i asked

um people to track time on just for more

uh my understanding but

we're not since we're not really billing

time we're not tracking that so we're

using this point system

um and where at least you know for

example without kind of going really

into the weeds on it just saying a

client is worth

um two would be clients worth one to see

clients worth 0.5 right

so that's how we try to add it up so

obviously we don't want one project

manager having seven

a's um and then all you know and then

all b's right and then the other person

gets all the c's

we try to have that balance so when i

look at the pipeline

um with our accounting director let's

say um in our tax director too i'll say

hey look you know this is what we

think's involved based on reviewing

their stuff like

who has capacity for this and you know

and then the time comes and say

no one has the ability to take on

another a client right so um

even though we may not have a

quote-unquote

you know full-time job ready yet it's

time to hire because we know that that

work's going to come

whether it's one month or two months we

we know the pipeline's um filled and

that works gonna come in a matter of

time

yeah you unpack this monday meeting for

me a little bit so is that within with

everybody is it just with you and the

directors

yeah so this is actually something um i

think we probably took it from your

podcast actually from um

from summit cpa who we've been kind of

uh working with as well

on the learning side of things so

they're they you know they talked about

their um

monday jet pack meetings and that was

something that

obviously you know as the owner would

bother me right if i see things that are

overdue

and like what's going on why is this

overdue like because i'm not in those

details so

so what we've that means evolved over

time but what we've done now is

um just like um summit does is we'll go

into

the the monday meeting so that's with

everybody um and

we'll go person by person right as

tedious it may be it's worth it

we'll go through the overdue task

overdue project list for them and just

say hey what's

what's the status up to here it may be

that the client's late and maybe that

we're late but whatever it is what's

we'll find a realistic date

um to move it out to and then if they

need my involvement with you know client

relations or any type of anything else

we talk about it then but we do walk

away from that meeting with a clean jet

pack every monday morning with

with um updated dates realistic dates

that we can stick to

um and you know and that's also a metric

for us too you know we're tracking

we're deadline driven so we're tracking

deadlines um

that our project managers are hitting or

missing right that's that all goes into

the compensation model so

that's important you know for them right

so they're trying to be realistic with

those dates as well

um but that's been a really really big

thing for us having those those monday

meetings so

myself as the owner has the you know the

view of like what's

what's going on here um and i don't have

to worry about you know things that are

overdue because i know that someone's

dealing with it and then

um our director level um uh people

you know they know exactly what the

team's gonna be working on for the week

ahead

yeah um fascinating so

um i mean two things one one is um

good news by the time this episode will

come out i think there's gonna be a

pretty cool update that you're gonna

like where you could you could pull by

team member or client the amount of work

that's getting done on time both at the

job level and the task level uh which

which hopefully will help streamline

some of those answers

but the the other question i have for

you is um

walk me through this compensation model

i think that's really cool i don't know

if we've really unpacked anything like

this before

yeah so specifically with our um our

project managers

who you would consider like a senior

account in a traditional role

so what we've tried to do there and it's

been an evolving model of our time but

put you know what we call

kpis together for them so um

there they may involve things like you

know um

we'll say hey a clients need to have

their monthly financials out by

the 12th b clients by the 15th and then

c

clients say by the 20th right so um we

aim to hit about 85

90 of those each month on on on time

if it's controllable obviously if the

client is there's an issue with them

they're not getting a stuff

that's no harm you'll follow so that's

one thing

um we also will look at from a technical

standpoint so when our direct

our directors are doing kind of the

technical review of the work um you know

if if there's significant mistakes that

goes into our kpis and then

we also do um

pretty much every monday we'll have

calls with um

one or two clients randomly kind of we

call them client care calls

in which you know the director will um

or myself will call a client to say hey

how's it going everything going good is

are you working well with the team do

you have any issues or you know are

there

any response issues things like that so

um we can get kind of feet honest

feedback right from a client

um you know to make sure everything's

going okay and nine times out of ten it

is but if they say oh hey you know that

there's this email we've sent a couple

times they haven't responded to that's

something that we would leave feedback

on our

um our our kpi form for for an

accountant so

we try to think about it that way since

we're not really we're not we're not

a time's on a driver to us deliverables

or driver so

ideally if you know someone gets the

work done on time high quality and

is giving good customer service they're

gonna you know without overthinking it

they're gonna hit all their kpis

yeah and and and so so the the getting

getting your your jobs done on time

85 90 95 percent the the review

um what what's the target for those

reviews like to to say like

okay he's a mistake or you know

whatever not a big deal versus this an

egregious mistake and this would

we're you know so how do you draw those

lines so that we're targets for that

it's more about not making the same

mistake right so

obviously we all make mistakes everyone

makes mistakes so

you know let's just say um the payroll

uh

the payroll journal entries uh messed up

on a client right that will be noted

um and then the next month when it rolls

forward if they make

that same mistake again right that's

more of a problem um

that's where you you that would go on

the kpi sheet so

we try to look at is that are they self

is the person self correcting are they

learning from their mistakes

um and and since we've been doing it the

answer is pretty much always yes

um but it's a good way for for feedback

to um

to the staff member that you know hey

this is what we found

um and then they know oh hey i got to

make sure you know next month

i catch this so it's a good way for them

to learn as well

got it got it so so as long as long as

it's

you know as long as they're

self-correcting it's not entirely

egregious and

um it's not i guess i guess the

you know in theory the quantity of

mistakes will be decreasing month over

month like there shouldn't be a lot of

net new

mistakes that's at some point like of

course yeah

yeah the review the review should be

catching that um

and the uh the other thing we do with

that too so um let's just say that

a client has a weird thing oh hey we you

know the the director may catch it hey

you

didn't realize this did this weird

equity um entry that had to be made like

we gotta make sure we catch that we'll

we'll actually add that to their

um their kind of their task list on

their jetpack job as well

so that's been really important um that

ben our

accounting director has been building

out by client it's a huge investment of

time

and energy but it's very worth it um to

have like a detailed process guide

we do it in jetpack for each client that

you know might have 25 or 30 steps

with these nuanced things but someone

has to check it off right so

if they checked it off and they said

they did it and it's still wrong that's

the feedback that we're getting

but if it's in jetpack 95 they're gonna

get it right and they're gonna

they're gonna know it and then two is

that if

for you know example the project manager

is out sick or on vacation and the other

another one's filling in for them

they have a good guide you know hey this

is 25 steps that i hope

a very good accountant could step into

and get it pretty much right obviously

there might be some help needed but um

without that

um i think we would we would struggle

yeah yeah

um two two final questions um

the first one is you're you know what's

really impressive about your journey i

mean there's many things but over two

years you've been able to really

i think um iterate very quickly

and learn very very quickly and so i

guess my question is how do you do that

i think some of the

some of the decisions you've made and

some of the progress you made over two

years might take take somebody else five

years or ten years heck might even take

them 20 years

so i'm just curious how you approach

what has allowed you to approach your

firm in that way to be so

iterative and growth-minded yeah so um

big believer

and kind of like in self-education um

and self-growth so

um a few things that i've kind of

invested in as a firm so

we're members of um ctc so certified tax

coaches that was

a mindset change right from beginning

right i think i started that in the

second month um big commitment at the

time

got an roi within weeks what's the cost

what's the cost commitment i mean maybe

it's changed but like roughly speaking

probably about five thousand dollars uh

yeah so month two it's huge

yeah oh yeah and then i remember that

you know they're saying hey do you i

remember them telling you you'll get an

roi and that's how you know you're just

skeptical right like

you're brand new but um i i talked to

you know one of my kind of mentors they

said

if there's an roi go do it right and

stop thinking of it as an expense it's a

it's an investment so

i've always kind of had that mindset of

vesting yourself um and since then i

mean i'm always in something i mean

um jackie meyer and chuck bauer who've

had on the podcast i believe

you know they're i've done their group

coaching program

i do one-on-one coaching sales coaching

with chuck um kind of throughout the

year

um i'm in the mastermind with summit so

always always always investing myself

and if it's not

something like that then it's it's it's

reading business books

podcasts um pretty much any and every

accounting podcast or firm podcast out

there i'm listening to it

um i think that it just you just start

taking bits and pieces from everybody

that you listen to

and you start crafting it uh in your own

manner

so i i think the one thing i'm glad i

didn't fall into is just getting in the

trap of

just being like any other accounting

firm right i kind of said let's let's do

it differently let's let's learn from

others there are other people out there

doing

forward-thinking stuff let's just start

absorbing as much content as i possibly

can

and testing the waters with it um so so

really just you know

being in being a student finding mentors

um hiring coaches

listening listening listening and

observing as much as you can has

probably been my biggest key um to get

there right you got to love it you got

to you got to invest in yourself and you

got to kind of eat sleep and breathe it

but

um you know that's what i found has

really worked best for us

yeah i guess my second question then is

like what would be what would be kind of

a crash course you know somebody's

listening right now

and they're like wow you know greg greg

really accelerated his firm very quickly

he he's grabbing all these great

resources

if somebody wants to start getting a

crash course on forward-thinking firms

what what books podcasts mentors i mean

you mentioned summit cpa

you were you know customers of ours

we're huge fans of them we'll link them

up as well but like who

who comes to mind or what resources come

to mind websites books podcasts anything

like just

just whatever you want to throw out

there will link up in the show notes

yeah so so certainly this podcast so

like i said you know um this podcast i'm

growing my accounting

practice podcast i i no joke probably

listen to every single one of them back

to back to the beginning right they're

all of different content

um because one thing i didn't really you

know when you get

into business i'm thinking i'm going

into business to be a cpa

i don't necessarily i don't necessarily

think i'm going into business to be um

the chief marketing officer chief sales

officer all these different things hr

now

so there's a lot to learn right so i'm

looking at overall business learning

um studying business models so i think

that

people that want to do this type of

model they should really

absorb a lot about value pricing about

subscription models

platform models like you know uber

facebook those kind of business models

because

um i just think that you don't have to

do it the exact same way as that's

always been done

so absorbing that content um and if it's

specific to the accounting industry

great

but if not i think absorbing business

knowledge is so important

um because there's so much to learn and

i probably know

one percent this point right there's

just so much out there uh

to learn to get to that next level um

but i don't think in this day and age we

need to recreate the the wheel right

because there's so much free content

out there that you can absorb and i just

think that

picking one place and starting whether

it's going back to the beginning of this

podcast

or another accounting podcast and just

going episode by episode right or

looking at the titles that really

interest you um

i just think certain things will click

in your mind um about

how you do or you do not want to do

things yeah 100 100 so we'll link up

those podcasts and big fans of mike and

ron at the

growing my accounting practice um

i was on at one time and they're they're

such characters they you know the

research

what they do is is so unique so it's a

really fun podcast uh we'll link up

uh jack it will link up chuck we'll link

up summit cpa we'll link up to

the the tax coaching program you had

mentioned um

are there any um books or blogs that

come to mind

or um associations that come to mind is

there anything else you would want to

link up on the on the show

yeah i mean i'm from this year yeah yeah

i mean as far as you know education i'm

a big you know reader of um

you know accounting today um cpa

practice advisor

um and as far as far as like mindset

books go like my probably favorite book

out there is rich dad poor dad

um because i think a lot of my clients

have that same mindset as well

so nothing you know they actually do

talk about some accounting principles in

there but

um that's just more of an overall growth

mindset

um and that goes back to the you know

thinking about

investing versus expense right so

i look at business if i'm going to spend

something in my business right

am i getting an roi and then i am i give

passing an roi

to into our clients so that book really

helped

kind of frame my mindset of how i want

to run a business yeah 100

it's so funny you bring up books i mean

i i did the mental calculation

the other day and and you know if you're

a firm owner or your business owner

and you can get one impactful idea out

of one book a year

uh it will more than pay for itself

because like a ten percent lift your

business

uh you know what what are we talking

about you know like a hundred grand

uh and you're not gonna spend a hundred

grand on

um books in a year i mean you could but

so it's almost like if you're a business

owner and you're actually reading these

things and trying to instill the best

practices back into your business

it's almost impossible to spend too much

money on books that's my justification

for buying a bunch of stuff on amazon

that's just me but it's like you buy

five or six books a month maybe you can

only crank out one or two or three or

four of them

but if you catch one great idea you can

install in your business for marketing

sales fulfillment workflow whatever

it i mean these things are going to pay

10 times over i think the hardest

challenge too is there's so much content

out there

um one thing i do is you know i'll

listen to something i'll get all these

ideas

i gotta write it down i gotta send

myself an email or take notes on my

iphone if i'm if i'm walking around with

it because i you know things just pop in

your mind you're listening to stuff and

it really helps you be creative

then it's really okay can we actually do

this can we apply it

and is it going to be you know what is

the deadline that we can do this

immediately is going to take us

a year is this a five year goal so um

certainly there's so much content out

there and then it's really about

putting into action and finding a plan

how to get into action

um and i think it's you know it's one of

those quotes that you know over the the

short term

you feel like you got nothing done but

if you look back you know month year

a couple years you got a lot more done

than you expected and i think a lot of

that goes to

the content you're absorbing yeah 100

well greg this has been a real treat

i appreciate you reaching out if

somebody wants to connect with you

learn more about your story visit your

website what's the best way for them to

connect with you and say thanks for

coming on the show

yeah certainly um they can certainly

send me an email it's greg

at greg o'brien cpa.com uh the website

geotaxplanning.com or i'm on linkedin as

well if you can sort through the other

o'brien's i'm there somewhere awesome

we'll link up everything in the show

notes at jetpackworkflow.com

blog that's jetpackworkflow.com we'll

link up all the sources books podcasts

resources membership sites past

interviews that greg have mentioned

and if you're somebody like greg you've

been using jetpack workflow you've been

following the podcast you feel like you

have an amazing story to share

email me david jetpackworkflow.com

always excited to bring people that are

in the trenches really building the firm

we love interviews like this you get so

much energy out of them so if you have

one

story that's similar to greg email me

come on the show whether you're just

getting started you're halfway through

your journey or you're towards danny

just soldier firm you want to talk about

it

let me know shoot me an email and greg

thanks so much for coming on the show

thanks david