The Problem With "Soulslike"
Summary
TLDRThis video script discusses the impact of 'Dark Souls' on the gaming industry, highlighting its influence on game design and the subsequent emergence of the 'Souls-like' genre. It critiques the tendency to label games as derivative without considering their unique contributions, and argues for a focus on core gameplay loops rather than superficial similarities. The script calls for a reevaluation of genre naming conventions to better reflect the evolution and creativity in game development.
Takeaways
- ๐ฎ Dark Souls is renowned for its intricate level design, satisfying combat, and captivating world, and is often cited for its high difficulty.
- ๐ฅ The term 'Souls-like' has become a catch-all for games that share even the slightest resemblance with Dark Souls, leading to a perceived naming crisis.
- ๐ The concept of difficulty in games is humorously attributed to Hidetaka Miyazaki's creation of Demon's Souls in 2009, suggesting all games before were 'brain dead easy'.
- ๐ The script critiques the tendency to label games as 'Souls-like' for borrowing elements like bonfires, stamina bars, and estus flasks, which originated from Dark Souls.
- ๐ค It questions why the 'Souls' moniker is still used for games that share only superficial similarities, suggesting it may stifle creativity and innovation.
- ๐ The script points out that genres like 'roguelike' and 'metroidvania' have evolved and diversified, yet the 'Souls-like' label has not seen the same flexibility.
- ๐ฌ The video script compares the influence of landmark films and music genres, which have not seen their titles become genres themselves, unlike the 'Souls' phenomenon.
- ๐ It argues that all games are derivative to some extent, and that borrowing from predecessors is a natural part of creative evolution in any medium.
- ๐ ๏ธ The script highlights the importance of creating games that adhere to their vision rather than conforming to established genre mechanics.
- ๐ It suggests that the core of the 'Souls' genre is the gameplay loop of encountering challenges, learning from failure, and persisting, rather than specific combat mechanics.
- ๐ The video references Mark Brown's Game Maker's Toolkit video, which proposes that the genre should be based on the elements that define Dark Souls, such as slow, deliberate combat.
- ๐ The script concludes that the 'Souls-like' genre should evolve in its terminology to better reflect the diversity and innovation of games it encompasses.
Q & A
What is the main topic discussed in the video script?
-The main topic discussed in the video script is the influence of the Dark Souls series on the gaming industry and the issues surrounding the labeling of games as 'souls-like' or derivatives of the series.
Why is the Dark Souls series considered influential in the gaming world?
-The Dark Souls series is considered influential due to its intricate level design, satisfying combat, captivating world, and notorious difficulty, which have set a new standard for challenging games and inspired many others to adopt similar mechanics and aesthetics.
What is the issue with labeling games as 'souls-like'?
-Labeling games as 'souls-like' can create a naming crisis and an obsession with derivative titles, which may stifle creativity and innovation by suggesting that games should adhere closely to the original Dark Souls formula.
What is the difference between 'roguelike' and 'rogue-lite'?
-A 'roguelike' refers to games that closely adhere to the original Rogue game's mechanics, while 'rogue-lite' or 'rogue-lites' are games that share some elements with roguelikes but are not as strictly defined, allowing for more variation and innovation.
What is the significance of the term 'Metroidvania' in gaming?
-The term 'Metroidvania' is a portmanteau of 'Metroid' and 'Castlevania' and is used to describe games that feature a sprawling world with areas gated behind abilities, upgrades, and items, similar to the gameplay mechanics of these two series.
How does the script suggest we should view the evolution of game genres?
-The script suggests that game genres should be viewed as evolving and innovating rather than being strictly defined by their original titles or mechanics, allowing for a more diverse and creative gaming landscape.
What is the core gameplay loop of the Dark Souls series according to the script?
-The core gameplay loop of the Dark Souls series, as described in the script, involves encountering a challenging obstacle, dying, and repeatedly attempting to overcome it with the knowledge gained from previous attempts.
What is the script's stance on the naming and categorization of games that are similar to Dark Souls?
-The script criticizes the trend of labeling games as 'souls-like' and suggests that it is time for the language used to refer to these games to evolve, reflecting the diversity and innovation in game design.
What is the script's opinion on the game 'Grease'?
-The script praises 'Grease' for taking elements from the Metroidvania genre and using them to tell a powerful story through its gameplay, without being constrained by the need to conform to a specific genre checklist.
What does the script suggest as the 'soul' of Dark Souls games?
-The script suggests that the 'soul' of Dark Souls games is not their combat mechanics but their core gameplay loop, which includes the cycle of encountering challenges, learning from failures, and persistently trying to overcome obstacles.
How does the script address the issue of game developers designing games that are too similar to Dark Souls?
-The script argues that developers should focus on creating engaging and innovative games rather than strictly adhering to the mechanics of Dark Souls, allowing for a more diverse and creative approach to game design.
Outlines
๐ฎ Dark Souls' Influence on Gaming Difficulty
This paragraph discusses the impact of From Software's Dark Souls on the gaming industry, particularly in terms of difficulty. It highlights how Dark Souls is often credited with redefining game difficulty and how subsequent challenging games are seen as paying homage to it. The script humorously suggests that the concept of difficulty in games did not exist until the release of Demon's Souls in 2009. It also touches on the naming conventions of games that are similar to Dark Souls, criticizing the tendency to label them as 'souls-like', which it argues stifles creativity and suggests that games should stick closely to the original.
๐ The Evolution of Gaming Genres and Innovation
In this paragraph, the script explores the evolution of gaming genres and the importance of innovation over mere replication. It contrasts the naming and categorization of games like 'roguelike' with the 'souls-like' genre, arguing that the latter's naming convention is restrictive. The script uses examples like 'metroidvania' to illustrate how genres can be defined by a combination of elements from different games. It also discusses how developers can take inspiration from various sources and create unique games, such as Hollow Knight, which was not solely designed to emulate Dark Souls. The paragraph emphasizes the need for a core gameplay loop that engages players, rather than adhering strictly to established mechanics.
๐ Embracing Creativity in Game Design
The final paragraph wraps up the discussion by emphasizing the importance of creativity in game design. It mentions the upcoming release of Elden Ring, a new game from From Software, and suggests that the gaming community should look forward to innovative experiences rather than just more 'souls-like' games. The script encourages viewers to engage with the content, like and comment on the video, and subscribe for more content on games, movies, and animation.
Mindmap
Keywords
๐กDark Souls
๐กDifficulty
๐กSouls-like
๐กDemon's Souls
๐กInfluence
๐กRoguelike
๐กMetroidvania
๐กHollow Knight
๐กGriez
๐กCore Gameplay Loop
๐กGenre
Highlights
Dark Souls is recognized as the ultimate game of all time, influencing the gaming landscape with its intricate design and combat.
The game's notorious difficulty has set a standard for challenging games, with many later games paying homage to Dark Souls.
The concept of game difficulty is attributed to Hidetaka Miyazaki's creation of Demon's Souls in 2009.
Game developers have adopted elements from Dark Souls, such as bonfires, stamina bars, and estus flasks, in their own games.
Naming crisis in the gaming industry has led to the label 'souls-like' for games with similarities to Dark Souls.
The term 'souls-like' has been criticized for stifling creativity and suggesting games should adhere closely to the original.
Roguelike games, named after the game Rogue, have evolved to include a variety of games with different mechanics.
The term 'rogue-lite' emerged to describe games that are similar to roguelikes but with significant differences.
Categorizing games based on their derivation from a specific title can lead to a loss of meaning in genre labels.
All games are derivative to some extent, borrowing from their predecessors, as seen in the evolution of the 'Metroidvania' genre.
The term 'Metroidvania' originated from the combination of Metroid and Castlevania, describing games with interconnected worlds and abilities.
Games like Hollow Knight, inspired by Metroid, created a unique experience without strictly adhering to the 'Metroidvania' formula.
Developers should focus on creating engaging gameplay rather than conforming to established genre mechanics.
The game 'Grease' was redesigned to be more accessible, incorporating elements of the Metroidvania genre in a linear fashion.
The core of a genre lies in a few unchangeable factors that capture the essence of the group of games it represents.
Mark Brown's video on the 'Soulsborne' genre suggests that its defining elements are the slow, deliberate combat and core gameplay loop.
The 'Soulsborne' genre should be based on the cycle of encountering challenges, learning from failure, and persistently overcoming obstacles.
The video calls for a renaming of the genre to reflect the evolution of games beyond 'souls-like' and to encourage linguistic evolution.
Transcripts
[Music]
from software's dark souls needs no
introduction recently crowned the
ultimate game of all time the series is
praised for its intricate level design
satisfying combat and captivating world
but you're probably most familiar with
dark souls for its notorious difficulty
[Music]
look look
in fact these games are so hard that
every single challenging game that came
after is actually paying homage to dark
souls
the first hard game
see we all know that the very concept of
difficulty didn't exist before hidetaka
miyazaki invented it in 2009 with the
release of demon souls before that video
games were all just brain dead easy i
mean look at this the games that they
basically play themselves
but then
in comes demon souls
[Music]
then two years later miyazaki shits out
another hood classic and game developers
went
wild bonfires stamina bars blood stains
estus flasks if it was featured in dark
souls then it would also be featured in
the next 100 games that you played but
we needed a name a name for these games
these these copycats that were like
souls
souls likes
medieval fantasy settings souls like
invincibility frame souls-like
difficulty
like constipation souls like wife
cheated on you soul's like wait wait
wait wait wait what's that
you live in an abusive household
souls like parenting now of course i'm
being facetious but there really seems
to be a bit of a naming crisis
surrounding games that share even the
slightest bit in common with dark souls
there's just this obsession with
labeling everything that's even remotely
similar as being derivative even among
from software's other ips they just
can't escape those same shackles i mean
first it was just demon souls and then
it was the souls games after that it was
souls born and after that it's
soul's born key
so you you wrote this this is a thing
that you wrote look it's undeniable that
dark souls is one of the most
influential games of our time the
current gaming landscape would look
incredibly different without it and
several games genuinely are just carbon
copies but a handful of problems arise
when taking one major title and turning
it into an entire genre take
roguelike a genre named after the 1980
dungeon crawler rogue unlike dark souls
however rogue didn't spawn an entire
series and was released over 40 years
ago so today it's not surprising when
rogue isn't the first game that comes to
mind when you hear the word roguelike
that game could be faster than light
slay the spire or for some people even
hades
for me the game that i think of when i
hear roguelike is binding of isaac
so i've just been kindly informed that
binding of isaac is in fact not a rogue
like
but a rogue light initially called
roguelike likes roguelites are
rogue-likes that are like rogue but not
as like rogue as roguelikes when you're
categorizing a game based on what it
derives from is derived from the label
starts to lose all meaning
rogue light is a genre born from games
being too different from the original
title to be called roguelikes so why
even keep rogue in the name this kind of
naming convention stifles creativity by
suggesting the game should stick as
close to the original as possible and
for every box on the checklist that a
game doesn't tick
we'll just add another like at the end
of the category all games are derivative
to some extent there's no modern game
that doesn't borrow anything from its
predecessors even dark souls
from software didn't invent the stamina
bar or parrying and corpse running has
been a staple of mmos long before dark
souls was even a concept swimming around
in miyazaki's nut sack art inspires and
genres overlap it's the same with any
medium of entertainment while there are
definitely landmark films none of them
have had their titles baked into their
respective genres that's not to say that
they've never been copied but after the
wave of clones came innovation imagine
if every movie with a ton of gore in a
crash zoom was called a tarantino-like
or look at hip-hop i mean half of all
rappers would be called tupac likes it's
exactly this phenomenon of derivative
content mixing and borrowing from
previous media that leads to imaginative
ideas metroidvania is a portmanteau of
metroid and castlevania and is used to
describe games that borrow from both
series
or so the wikipedia definition says in
actuality it's used to refer to any game
with a sprawling world that has certain
areas gated behind abilities upgrades
and items like super metroid the term
came into use after the release of
castlevania symphony of the night which
featured a lot of these
metroid-like elements similarly the game
devs behind the quote unquote souls like
metroidvania hollow knight had little to
no experience with dark souls before
making the game and although they were
inspired by metroid creating a
metroidvania wasn't something that they
set out to do
their inspiration came from various
different games but instead of trying to
emulate anyone in particular they
focused on trying to make a good ass
game and spoiler alert
they made a good ass game when
developers stick firmly to a blueprint
they're designing backwards creating a
game that conforms to established game
mechanics rather than designing elements
that'll best complement their game
grease is a game that was originally
intended to be a metroidvania but the
creators wanted it to be accessible to
people even if they've never played a
video game so they opted for a more
linear approach linear is the antithesis
of a metroidvania the devs would have to
reimagine the formula in order to
realize the vision they had for their
game and they did a damn good job
[Music]
greece has five levels representing each
stage of grief you progress linearly
through them acquiring a new ability in
each one the game features no combat and
little exploration the abilities are
largely used for platforming and puzzle
challenges each level is designed around
just the abilities that you have at the
time so there's no backtracking with
progression to each new level you
restore color to a beautiful watercolor
painted world until you're at the last
stage and finally overcome your grief
grease borrows metroidvania elements and
uses them to tell a powerful story
through little more than its gameplay
rather than force unnecessary mechanics
to fill a checklist grease takes only
what it needs from the genre and still
manages to capture the essence of having
a protagonist that evolves over time and
grows to interact with the world in
different ways and that is what's at the
core of any genre just a few
unchangeable factors that really capture
the heart of what unifies those group of
games
so
what's the soul of dark souls
mark brown of game makers toolkit made
an excellent video in 2017 on the topic
he suggests that the genre should be
based around the elements that give dark
souls it's slow deliberate combat but
even from software's other ips don't
entirely adhere to those elements
bloodborne has faster more aggressive
combat and this is even more true after
sekiro's release in 2019 which got rid
of the stamina bar entirely i would
argue that the element that ties these
games together is not their combat but
their core gameplay loop the cycle of
encountering a challenging obstacle
dying and throwing yourself at it again
and again armed with nothing more than
your knowledge of previous attempts no
estus flask stamina bar or dodge roll
necessary that core gameplay is what
makes these games so engaging and really
makes you feel like you have the
exaggerated swagger of a medieval
fantasy protagonist of course we'd also
have to rename the genre and ditch the
whole trend of just adding like at the
end of a title games have already
evolved past just being soul's likes and
it's time that the language we use to
refer to them does the same
[Music]
if you made it to the end of the video
uh thank you for listening to me talk my
this is just a topic that really
really grinds my gears really rustles my
jimmies if you will so i just figured
make a video about it
but uh yeah tell me what you guys think
if you like the video like the video uh
it helps the video get seen if you
dislike the video then
leave a comment because that also helps
to get seen
uh send this to that one friend who shut
the hell up about dark souls and
subscribe to see more videos like this
i'm just starting out but i have a ton
of ideas lined up for future videos not
just on games but like movies animation
like that and that uh the new souls born
eki roden ring game is dropping next
week so i might do a video on that
so i definitely stick around and i'll
see you in the next one
[Music]
you
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