Apple Vision Pro: Startup Platform Of The Future?

Summary

このビデオでは、テック業界の先駆的なプラットフォームであるAppleのVision Proについて議論しています。参加者は、Vision Proが生産性向上に焦点を当てている点や、これまでのVRヘッドセットとの違い、さまざまなセンサーとハードウェアの力強さ、そしてアプリのUIや開発者のSDKに期待される新たな可能性など、Vision Proをめぐって興味深い視点を交わしています。さらに、Founderがこの新しいプラットフォームでどのように成功を収められるかについても、有意義な提言が行われています。

Takeaways

• 👨‍💻 Appleの Vision Proは、ハードウェアとソフトウェアの両面で革新的なデバイスである。ハードウェアレベルでは、カスタムチップ、多数のカメラ、視線追跡機能など、自動運転車のテクノロジーを応用している。
• 🌐 Vision Proは、現実世界を理解し拡張するための処理能力が高く、デベロッパーにとって新しいUXやインタラクションを生み出す機会が生まれる。
• 📈 Appleは、生産性用途に重点を置いており、これはゲーミング中心のMetaとは対照的なアプローチである。生産性アプリを開発することで、マスマーケットにアピールできる。
• 👀 Vision Proは視線追跡に力を入れており、これがユーザーインターフェイスの新しい可能性を生み出すカギとなる。
• 🚀 Vision Proのプラットフォームが成功するかどうかは、アプリケーション生態系の発展に左右される。iPhoneのように、ヒット作の登場には5年ほどの時間が必要になるかもしれない。
• 🤖 ARやVRアプリの開発は技術的な挑戦が多く、そうしたチャレンジに乗り出したいフーリエが求められる。そうしたフーリエをYCはサポートしたい。
• 🧠 アプリのアイデアは、プラットフォームを最大限活用し、現実世界とのインタラクションを革新的にデザインできそうかどうかを基準に判断する。
• 💰 Vision Proは高価格帯の製品であり、最初は富裕層や企業向けの市場から立ち上がる可能性がある。マス市場に行き渡るには、価格の下落が鍵となるだろう。
• 🎮 Vision Proは、生産性用途に加えて、ゲームのような没入感の高いエンターテインメントにも用いられるかもしれない。
• 🔮 Vision ProにはiPhoneと同等の革新性があり、フーリエが新しい可能性を発見する機会が生まれるだろう。

Q & A

アップルがビジョンプロで難しく面白いことを行った分野は何でしたか?

アップルは、ビジョンプロのハードウェアとソフトウェアの両方で大きな挑戦に取り組んでいます。ハードウェアでは、高精細な画質と広視野角を実現するための特殊な表示技術や目の動きを追跡するセンサー、3次元空間をマッピングするカメラなど、最先端の技術を搭載しています。ソフトウェアでは、膨大なセンサーデータを処理し、現実世界を正確に認識・拡張するため、自動運転車に匹敵する深度のコンピュータビジョンを実現しています。

なぜ拡張現実 (AR) 技術と自動運転車のテクノロジーは似ているのでしょうか?

ARデバイスと自動運転車はともに、カメラやセンサーを使って周囲の3次元空間を正確にマッピングし、そのデータを解析して機器の位置と動きを判断する必要があります。この技術は「同時的位置認識とマッピング (SLAM)」と呼ばれ、ロボット工学における基本的な概念です。つまり、AR ヘッドセットも自動運転車と同じように、現実世界を認識・マッピングする高度なコンピューティング能力が必要不可欠なのです。

ビジョンプロはモバイルデバイスとどのように違うのでしょうか?

ビジョンプロはiPhoneなどのモバイルデバイスとは異なり、生産性向上を目標としています。ゲームやVRに重点を置く代わりに、キーボードやマウスを使ったオフィスワークなどの実用的な用途を想定しています。また、モバイルデバイスとは異なり、ビジョンプロはマスアダプションを期待せず、コアなユーザーにフォーカスしています。つまり、初期はナイッチな市場を対象に、Appleのエコシステムとのシナジーを活かして高度なユースケースを開拓していく方針のようです。

創業者がビジョンプロのような新しいプラットフォームでアプリを開発する際、どのようなアドバイスがありますか?

YCのアドバイスは、技術トレンドに惑わされずに、創業者の熱意と理念に基づいてアイデアを評価することです。創業者が熱心にARアプリの開発に取り組んでいる証拠があれば、その人を支援することが大切だと考えています。しかし、単なるハイプに乗っかろうとする人とは区別が必要です。創業者がARの独自性を本当に理解し、既存のアプリを超えるような新しい価値を提供しようとしているかどうかが重要なポイントになります。

ビジョンプロのような新しいプラットフォームで成功するには、どのようなアプリが有望でしょうか?

Appleはビジョンプロのためのヒューマンインタフェースガイドラインを作成しており、そこには目の動きを利用したデータの表示やナビゲーションなど、ARならではのユーザーエクスペリエンスが盛り込まれています。したがって、創業者には目線追跡や空間認識などのAR固有の機能を最大限に活用し、完全に新しいユーザーインタラクションを考案することが求められます。また、視野を超える膨大な情報を効率的に扱えるアプリも有望でしょう。金融取引やCAD設計などハイエンドの専門的な用途は、ビジョンプロの強みを生かせる分野といえます。

ビジョンプロに対する期待と現実性はどのようなものでしょうか?

ビジョンプロは、iPhoneのように短期的にマスアダプションを期待するべきではありません。大きな期待やブームを生み出しているものの、ユーザー数が一般化するまでには5年以上の時間がかかる可能性があります。そのため、現実的には高価格帯のニッチな市場を対象としたアプリから始まり、徐々にエコシステムが育っていくことが予想されます。創業者はこうした長期的な視点に立ち、忍耐強くARへの造詣を積み重ねていく姿勢が重要になりそうです。

ビジョンプロとMetaのVRプラットフォームにはどのような違いがありますか?

Metaのプラットフォームはゲームエンジンをベースとしており、ゲーム性の高いコンテンツに強みを持ちます。一方、ビジョンプロはiPhoneのエコシステムを引き継ぎ、より実用的なアプリの開発をサポートしています。例えば、PDFビューアなどの基本的なアプリをメタのSDKで実装するのは複雑ですが、ビジョンOSでは非常に簡単です。つまり、MetaがゲームやVR体験に特化しているのに対し、Appleは現実世界との融和を目指し、生産性アプリを重視したプラットフォームを構築したと言えるでしょう。

ビジョンプロの発売は、iPhoneのようなブレイクスルーになりますか?

ビジョンプロのリリースはiPhoneの時と同様に、新しいプラットフォームの幕開けを意味するでしょう。ただし、iPhoneのように一般ユーザーにも爆発的に人気が出るかどうかは不明です。iPhoneも最初の5年間は本格的な企業が生まれませんでした。Uber, インスタカート、ドアダッシュなどのユニコーンがついに立ち上がったのは、スマホが世帯の70-80%に行き渡ってからでした。ビジョンプロも同様に、一般消費者へのマスアダプションよりも、高付加価値のニッチな分野から着実にエコシステムを築いていくことが予想されます。

ビジョンプロは自動運転車のように急成長するでしょうか?

テスラのロードスター戦略を考えると、ビジョンプロが自動運転車のように急速な成長を遂げることは期待できそうにありません。ロードスターはハイエンドのニッチ製品でしたが、その後の一般化に成功した点で参考になります。しかし、ビジョンプロにはハードウェア自体が高価で一般消費者向けではないため、初期から大衆機としてのポジショニングは難しいでしょう。それでも、ハイエンド分野で確固たるユーザーベースを確立し、次第にリーズナブルなデバイスも投入していけば、自動車業界のように段階的な成長は望めるかもしれません。

ビジョンプロは消費者向けのソーシャルネットワークに影響を与えるでしょうか?

ビジョンプロが消費者向けのソーシャルメディアに大きな影響を与えるかどうかは不明です。Facebookは過去にInstagramに席巻される危機を乗り越えるためにOculusを買収しましたが、ビジョンプロが同じような脅威になるかは疑問です。むしろビジョンプロは専門的な生産性アプリやエンタープライズ向けのユースケースに重点が置かれる見込みです。しかし、Oculus買収の狙いとは異なり、Facebookがビジョンプロを消費者向けの新しいソーシャルプラットフォームとして活用する可能性はあるかもしれません。

Outlines

00:00

🖥️ アップルのARヘッドセットのハードウェアとソフトウェア

このパラグラフでは、Apple Vision Proのハードウェアとソフトウェアの両方について話しています。ハードウェア的には、Vision Proにはカスタムのプロセッサ、M2チップ、そしてさまざまなセンサーが搭載されています。ソフトウェア的には、Vision OSと呼ばれるリアルタイムオペレーティングシステムを実行し、これらのセンサーデータをリアルタイムで処理しているようです。また、カメラデータを処理するためのカスタムプロセッサR1も搭載されています。このようなハードウェアとソフトウェアの組み合わせにより、自動運転車とよく似た技術が実現されているということを説明しています。

05:01

⚙️ ARヘッドセットと自動運転車の技術的類似性

このパラグラフでは、ARヘッドセットと自動運転車の技術的な類似性について説明しています。両者にはカメラやライダーなどのセンサーが搭載されており、同様のSLAM（Simultaneous Localization and Mapping）技術を使用して、3次元空間内の位置を把握しています。ただし、ARヘッドセットの方が小さなフォームファクターのため、サーバーグレードのGPUやCPUを搭載することができず、より効率的なカスタムプロセッサの設計が必要であったことが説明されています。このように、ARヘッドセットと自動運転車は技術的な類似点が多いことが分かります。

10:03

📱 iPhoneとの比較、新しいインタラクションの可能性

このパラグラフでは、iPhone発売時の状況とApple Vision Proを比較しながら、新しいインタラクションの可能性について議論されています。iPhoneの発売時には仮想キーボードなどの使い勝手に疑問視する意見がありましたが、結果的にユーザーが新しいインタラクションを発見することで成功を収めたことが説明されています。Vision Proについてもこれまでにない新しい入力方法が見つかる可能性があり、創業者や開発者が新しい体験を生み出せることが示唆されています。さらに、Meta（旧Facebook）のSDKとApple Vision Pro SDKの違いについても触れられています。

15:06

🚀 Vision Proの新しい機会とPlowhorseサイクル

このパラグラフではVision Proが生み出す新しい機会について議論されています。まず、iPhoneの成功例が紹介されます。iPhoneはリリース後5年ほどして、インスタカート、ドアダッシュ、ウーバーなどの本格的なモバイル企業が誕生しました。Vision Proについても同様に、普及が進み一定の採用率に達した時点で大きな機会が生まれる可能性があるとしています。一方で、Vision Proが「テスラロードスター」のようになり、ニッチな製品にとどまってしまうリスクも示唆されています。これを避けるには、創業者たちが熱意を持ってこの分野に挑戦し、ユーザーベースの拡大を待つことが重要だと説明されています。

20:07

🎯 Vision Proで成功するためのアプリケーション

このパラグラフでは、Vision Proプラットフォームで成功するためのアプリケーションについて議論されています。現時点では2次元的なアプリが主流ですが、3次元空間を本当に活用したアプリケーションは見つかっていません。トレーダーのような、多くの情報を一度に処理する必要のある職種では、Vision Proの新しい情報提示方法が有効かもしれません。また、より一般的には、360度のビューや深くデータに没入できるような新しい体験を生み出すことが重要だと指摘されています。Vision Proプラットフォームの独自性を最大限に生かしたアプリケーションを見つけることが、この新しい技術の成功につながるのではないかと考察されています。

25:09

🗺️ 創業者へのアドバイス

このパラグラフでは、創業者への助言について話されています。YCはこれまでも、各プラットフォームのシフトを的確に捉えてきた実績があります。そこで重視されているのは、必ずしも各テクノロジーに対する強い意見ではなく、むしろ個々のアイデアの妥当性を判断することです。創業者が本当にVR/ARの分野に熱意を持って取り組んでいるかどうかを見極め、新技術の登場を単なる流行に乗っているだけではない本物のアイデアを見分ける力が重要だと指摘されています。そのような創業者を支援し、適切なタイミングでチャンスを掴めるよう助言していくことが、YCの役割だと説明されています。

Keywords

💡ARとVR

ARとVRは拡張現実(AR)と仮想現実(VR)の略語で、新しいコンピューティングプラットフォームを表します。ARはデジタル情報をユーザーの現実空間に重ねて表示する技術であり、VRはユーザーを完全に仮想的な環境に没入させる技術です。このビデオでは、特にAppleの新しいARヘッドセット「Vision Pro」について議論されています。このデバイスは現実世界の映像をデジタル映像に重ねて表示し、生産性向上を目的としています。

💡ハードウェアとソフトウェア

ハードウェアはデバイスの物理的な部分を指し、ソフトウェアはデバイスを制御するためのプログラムを意味します。ビデオでは、Vision Proのハードウェアとソフトウェアの両面でAppleが行った革新的な取り組みについて言及しています。ハードウェア面では、カメラ、センサー、専用プロセッサの開発など、現実世界を理解し拡張するための技術革新が行われています。一方、ソフトウェア面では、ユーザーインターフェースの重点が視線追跡に置かれ、新しい体験を提供することが期待されています。

💡目線追跡

目線追跡は、ユーザーの視線の動きをデバイスが追跡する技術を指します。Vision Proは優れた目線追跡技術を搭載しており、これによりユーザーの視線に合わせてピクセル密度を高くするなど、優れた視覚体験を提供することができます。ビデオでは、この目線追跡技術がユーザーインタフェースの中核となり、スマートフォンでのタップ操作と同様の革新をもたらす可能性について議論されています。このように、目線追跡はこのデバイスの重要な機能の1つと考えられています。

💡生産性

生産性とは、一定の投入資源から得られる産出量を表す概念です。ビデオでは、Vision Proがゲーミングではなく生産性向上を目的としていることが強調されています。Vision ProにはM2プロセッサと同等の高性能チップが搭載されており、キーボードを使ってMacBookと同じように作業ができます。また、リアルな視界を提供しながらデジタル情報を重ねるARの特性は、生産性を向上させる新しい体験を生み出す可能性があります。生産性向上は、Vision Proが目指す重要な目標の1つです。

💡プラットフォームシフト

プラットフォームシフトとは、コンピューティングプラットフォームが大きく移行することを指します。ビデオでは、ARとVRテクノロジーの進歩がプラットフォームシフトを引き起こす可能性について議論されています。スマートフォンの登場がアプリ開発の黎明期を生み出したように、Vision ProのようなARデバイスの普及も新しいアプリケーションとビジネスチャンスを生み出すかもしれません。ただし、本格的なシフトが起こるまでには時間がかかる可能性があり、フラッシーなアプリから実用的な企業が生まれるまでに5年程度の期間を要したスマートフォンの事例が参考になります。

💡ユーザー体験

ユーザー体験(UX)とは、製品やサービスを利用する際のユーザーの感覚や印象を指します。ビデオでは、Vision Proが従来のデバイスとは異なる新しいユーザー体験を提供する可能性について言及されています。具体例として、目線追跡によるズーム操作や、現実世界とデジタル情報の重ね合わせによる没入感の向上などが挙げられています。これらは既存のUXを超えた新しい体験となりうるため、アプリ開発者にとってもUXに関する革新的なアプローチを見出す良い機会となるでしょう。

💡スタートアップ

スタートアップとは、革新的なアイデアやテクノロジーを基に新しいビジネスを立ち上げたばかりの企業を指します。ビデオでは、Vision Proのようなプラットフォームシフトがスタートアップにとって魅力的な可能性を秘めているかどうかについて議論されています。新しいデバイスは新しいアプリケーションの需要を生み出し、その分野で専門性を培ったスタートアップが有利となる可能性があります。しかし同時に、十分なユーザー層が形成されるまでは投資をためらうリスクもあります。スタートアップは自らの熱意とビジョンを持ちながら、適切なタイミングを選ぶ必要があると考えられています。

💡開発者

開発者は、ソフトウェアやアプリケーションを制作する人を指します。ビデオでは、Apple Vision ProとMetaのVRプラットフォームがそれぞれ異なる開発者向けSDKを提供することが示唆されています。Metaのゲーミング由来のSDKはUnityやUnrealエンジンをサポートしているため、ゲーム開発には適していますが、Vision ProのSDKは実世界を取り扱うことに特化しているようです。新しいプラットフォームの台頭は、開発者にとって新しい機会となりますが、既存のアプローチでは限界があり、新しいアプリケーションやユーザー体験の開発が求められるでしょう。

💡センサー

センサーとは、様々な物理量を計測するデバイスのことを指します。ビデオでは、Vision Proに搭載された多数のセンサーについて言及されています。AR/VRデバイスは現実世界を正確に把握するために、カメラ、深度センサー、赤外線センサー、ライダーなど、多種多様のセンサーを備えています。Vision Proの場合、このようなセンサーから膨大な量のデータを取得し、リアルタイムで処理する必要があります。そのため、専用プロセッサなどのハードウェアが開発されています。センサーテクノロジーは、現実世界を拡張するためのAR/VRデバイスの核心的な技術と言えます。

💡専用プロセッサ

専用プロセッサとは、特定の用途に特化して設計されたプロセッサを指します。ビデオでは、Vision Proに搭載されたApple製の専用プロセッサ「R1」について説明されています。R1は通常のCPUであるM2とは別に、Vision Proに搭載された多数のセンサーからのデータを高速に処理するために設計されています。このようなリアルタイムデータ処理能力は、Vision ProがAR機能を実現する上で不可欠な要素となります。専用プロセッサの開発は、Vision Proの中核技術の1つと言えるでしょう。

Highlights

Diana's early startup Asher Reality built an augmented reality SDK for game developers, allowing them to build multiplayer AR experiences that worked across platforms.

The challenge in making AR/VR headsets a reality has been the extreme technical difficulty, as it requires solving new physics problems to properly display images to the human eye.

Apple's Vision Pro uses a 'pass-through' approach, rendering a full high-res video feed of the real world, which avoids some of the optical challenges faced by other AR approaches.

The Vision Pro's eye-tracking and variable rendering allow it to render higher pixel density at the user's focal point, conserving battery and heat by blurring the periphery.

Apple has built an ecosystem of expertise from iPhone technology, including custom silicon and processors designed for high-bandwidth sensor data processing, similar to self-driving car technology.

Apple has focused the Vision Pro on productivity use cases rather than gaming, positioning it as a device for busy professionals to do work, unlike Meta's gaming-focused approach.

Apple's human interface guidelines for the Vision Pro emphasize eye-tracking and communicating information with depth and space, presenting new interaction design opportunities.

It may take some time before we see companies being founded that truly take advantage of the Vision Pro's unique capabilities, just as it took years for successful mobile startups to emerge after the iPhone launch.

High-end professional use cases like traders with multiple screens could be early adopters of AR technology, willing to pay premium prices for the ability to process large amounts of information.

Developers are still figuring out how to build for true 3D experiences that leverage the unique aspects of spatial computing rather than porting 2D applications.

YC has historically been good at funding the right startups during platform shifts by evaluating each idea on first principles rather than having a strong thesis on each new technology.

YC looks for founders who are genuinely excited and compelled to build for VR/AR, even irrationally so, as evidence that they will stick with it long enough to build world-class expertise.

The real-time processing of sensor data from cameras, lidar, etc. to understand the real world and augment it makes AR similar to the technology in self-driving cars.

Founders building for AR should focus on the unique capabilities of spatial computing and 3D experiences rather than porting 2D applications.

Apple has leveraged its expertise from building technologies like Face ID and depth cameras for the latest iPads to build the ecosystem needed for a successful AR headset.

Transcripts

how much of like the hard interesting

stuff Apple did is with the hardware in

The Vision Pro versus the software well

you need to understand the real world in

order to augment it technology of a

self-driving car but on a headset this

is maybe where Founders should sort of

pay attention is this a good opportunity

for startups there's all kinds of new

interactions that I think we have not

figured out yet what really truly takes

advantage of this platform the dream has

always been to get to something like

this

[Music]

welcome back to another episode of the

light cone and as you can see it's not

just any other day in tech there are

some new platforms that are coming up

right now you might have seen other

places where there are reviews we're not

doing reviews today we're going to talk

about what these platforms might mean

for Founders and people who want to

build things for a billion people we

actually have an expert at the table

right now don't we we do Diana who's a

group partner at YC before she worked at

YC she's been working in AR and VR for

10 years since the dawn of the Oculus

before VR was a mainstream thing in fact

her grad school research was in computer

vision so she's been interested in this

from way before it was a thing other

people were following Diana do you want

to talk about your startup that you did

which was an arv our startup a really

early pioneering one yeah we went

through YC with a startup called Asher

reality what we were building was a

augmented reality SDK for game

developers so that they could build

multiplayer experiences and AR games and

build the code once so that it would

work on any platform so between not just

IOS and Android mobile device but the

dream has always been to get to

something like this or that or that so

that developers would write the code

once and work across all devices and

what happened to your startup so what

happened is this took a lot longer to

come to Market that's one thing the

other thing that ended up happening we

ended up getting acquired by Niantic the

makers of Pokemon go so I ended up

heading a lot of the AR platform over

there at Pokemon with Niantic and we Shi

actually a lot of this AR SDK into a lot

of games so so millions of players are

running our code which is really cool so

if you've ever played Pokémon go you've

literally used code that Diana wrote and

I'm so excited with this platform coming

in and we can go dive deeper into it

okay should we take the headsets off so

we can we can talk yeah let's

go so it's been a long road you've seen

this

technology basically evolve over the

course of a

decade what's you know why AR like

that's one of the big things here you

know previous platforms may be really

focused on VR and the gaming aspect uh

Hollow lens from Microsoft seem to try

to do the AR thing what's going on with

uh the Apple Vision Pro you know why is

this important why are we talking about

this yeah I mean we have to go even back

in the history of computing actually the

attempts of building augment the reality

and VR headsets have been actually since

the beginning of the first computer

actually the very first one was by this

guy called Ivan southernland back in the

60s so people have been thinking about

it it's kind of the one of the dreams

and it's one of those things that really

fascinated me I think it's so much of it

is in our Consciousness that we want to

make it really happen but the challenge

why it has not happened unlike tablets

phones is that it's just really really

hard to make so you bring up the

Microsoft Hol lens they had version one

and version two and sadly the latest

version got scoped down or the team kind

of got let go because they

tried a optical approach so the AR

approach was the ACT they were seeing

actually the real world and then the

digital content would be rendered just

with uh within the eyes and it had a

very little field of view it was

actually the same approach that magic

leap was trying and what apple is trying

is actually more of a pass through which

is actually more of a full high-risk

video feed of the real world and

arguably a lot of the technical

challenges are a lot easier and the hard

part of Optics is that is not a problem

of more law and just like forcing with

more computation more pixels it is

actually figuring out new physics and

photons so that they render properly to

the human eye because the human eye is

actually very very incredible your field

of view is actually 210° so you put your

hands behind your ears you can kind of

see

them and to have a display system that

can really render all of that is so hard

and the other part that's really hard

which I want to touch upon a bit more is

our eyes incredible at doing infinite

ability to focus so we can look close

here or very far and in some senses you

have to find a way to make that discrete

for computers to work right because

computers just understand ones and zeros

and to get that working in a display is

just so hard and the Apple has done some

clever things with that that's different

to the optical approach um because the

optical approach is what like it's

actually looking through to the real

world or it's how what's the difference

yeah so if I'm looking at Jared right

now I'm actually seeing Jared and if I

overlay a digital digital information in

the optical system I would only overlay

the digital information and here for the

Vision Pro and what the meta Quest 3 or

meta Quest Pro or The Vision Pro

technically VR headset the full video is

All Digital like Jared is technical

technically pixels when I see him

through the Vision Pro and so you said

like the Apple Vision Pro being a video

feed actually reduces a technical

challenge yeah because I think uh

there's a couple things you could do you

can play a lot with the video feed and

one of the cool things if you're really

best in the world with display

technology what apple is you can get

away a lot with it and one of the cool

things they've done and foundations of

what they build which is actually

helpful if you're going to build apps

here so much of it is built upon eye

tracking so they actually have a

variable rendering for Focus so they had

to get the eye tracking to be working so

well for this to work so in the Vision

Pro wherever you look the pixel density

of your focal point will render more

High Fidelity than where it's not and

the reason why this is important is

because to fit it in such a small form

factor and not to burn and there's so

much heat dissipation to push so much

pixels and Battery you have to do

trade-offs so they did this thing of um

rendering more High rest where your eye

focuses so you can notice a little bit

in the periphery with the Vision Pro

where it's more blurry or a little bit

it's it's not like quite pixelated but

blurry and some of the people do

complain online with the FIA view I mean

that's I think a bit of the artifact

with the with the lens but that's like a

different discussion that's so how much

of like the hard interesting stuff Apple

did is with the hardware in The Vision

Pro versus the software I think the cool

thing about them is uh is both because

the Vision Pro is sort of a culmination

of a lot of the ecosystem of what

expertise they built in iPhone phone

like they have custom silicon they have

the R1 processor which is a co-processor

to the M2 the M2 is basically uh the

same processor that runs on the MacBook

Pro so very beefy but that processor M2

is for regular kind of like a CPU

regular workload but the challenge for

um building an AR headset or ar in

general you need to understand the real

world in order to augment it and for

that you need a lot of sensors so this

has over 10 cameras even has a lighter

it has a true dep camera it has a bunch

of ir cameras inside to track your eyes

so that's a lot of data a lot of high

data bandwidth that it needs to process

and underneath the hardware I think this

um you're going to get throughput

blocked so the R1 is a custom processor

that process all of the sensor data with

very high data Channel bandwidth and and

I suspect they are even running a

realtime operating system along the

vision OS which is kind of interesting

for what it means for developers to

process all of this in real time and

it's starting to sound a lot like

actually a technology of a self-driving

car but on a headset yeah that's exactly

as you were talking about what this is

that like Springs to mind like lar plus

a bunch of cameras and processing the

video feed yeah can you draw the

connection like it's probably not

obvious to people what the connection is

between like VR AR and self driving cars

yeah actually this this was one of the

jokes with my co-founder when we started

aser reality with the coort tech for

localizing in the world and knowing

where you are it comes from the world of

um in robotics called slam simultaneous

localization of mapping so you want to

find where a robot is in the world based

on just visual data and uh that is the

same thing that cell driving cars look

to navigate where they are in the 3D

World so you notice in that car there's

3D lighters there's r Radars there's a

bunch of cameras same thing here to know

where you are in the world so it's the

same technical

challenges but with so much more

Hardware complexity because you don't

want to burn people's

head uh with this imagine because the

the self driving car uh with self

driving cars you can actually the actual

Hardware that runs in self driving car

processing they put server grade gpus

and CPUs which fits in like the trunk or

underneath but this is actually pretty

cool what they' done and they built a

lot of that because on iPhone they

learned how to build custom processors

they built the uh with the true face

true 3D on the camera which is like IR

for mapping 3D and lighter they added on

the latest one latest uh iPads and

they've been building a lot of the

ecosystem one by one yeah it's

interesting here you talk about how

Apple can build on their previous

product so it's like you're saying this

is sort of a lot of the technology here

is coming out of the iPhone this sounds

like this sets them up to build their

car like um pretty well same expertise

let's talk about the use cases a little

bit I mean one of the things that's

pretty clear in um everything about the

launch of this is It's focused on

productivity and I kind of like it

because you know when you're talking

about these Oculus devices they're much

more focused on gaming on VR where

you're sort of in a totally different

place whereas you know my guess is one

of the reasons why VR AR hadn't been

embraced is that it wasn't something

that a busy person uh would use every

single day but now you know it's got the

M2 it's the same chip that I have in my

MacBook Air I can actually with a

keyboard do all of my work all day if I

wanted to and that's a really big

difference in how they're positioning

this device which is a big departure

from Meta Meta is so much on the gaming

community and actually there was a I

think this's a bit of an uproar from the

VR community that there's no

controllers and Apple has really focused

full on on productivity which I think if

this was my dream when we started eer

that if AR was going to happen we're not

going to notice it because it's going to

solve all the very mundane things and it

could replace all screens I think if'

done well this is going after the market

cap of all screens that get sold if done

well I mean there's still a lot of

things to be done this is still B zero

but yeah but this this motion like this

was incredibly natural and being able to

look look at things and have it be

something that you interact with I was

just blown away at how simple how easy

that was to reprogram my brain which is

cool I think there's half I remember I

guess a question for you Gary do you

remember when the iPhone came out Apple

had this human interface guideline MH

yeah they had a lot of things about

communication communicating information

hierarchy with touch and focus and

gestures with your thumb and things like

that yeah it was an incredibly

comprehensive document they basically

took all of the learnings that they

had gotten building the iPhone for years

and they distilled it into a really

thorough document then they publish it

for everyone I think it taught a whole

generation of designers and developers

how to build great mobile apps they

would just read that document there is a

human interface guideline for the Vision

Pro and uh one of the things you notice

is so much of it is is about ey tracking

and communicating communicating

information with depth and

space and I think what brings maybe this

is actually something for Founders to

think about if you're building an app in

the space is that with the Vision Pro

they invested so much on eye tracking to

make it work for so many reasons I mean

we talked about to get just the

rendering to work that was a building

block but for the ux I think it is the

moment that we're seeing with Capac

positive Touch where Apple got it right

for the iPhone the ey tracking is

starting to look a lot like that so I

think there's a lot of cool

ux things are yet to be discovered with

just ey tracking and the funny thing is

that the VR

Community I think it was very skeptical

of this because actually it was actually

a bad practice to do ey tracking because

it tires the user too much and the

reason is because it Hardware was not

good enough I remember the same thing

before the iPhone came out I remember

like lots of the conventional wisdom

from consultants and experts was that

the virtual keyboard wouldn't work that

people wanted like a physical keyboard

and that just it wouldn't like people

would never treat it as like a serious

device to do their email on because it

didn't have a real keyboard on the phone

yeah oh yeah yeah yeah that was all the

reviews of the iPhone yeah yeah but

there were I mean this is maybe where

Founders should sort of pay attention

there were still things that apple had

not figured out yet that uh thirdparty

developers ended up figuring out so if

you remember uh the pull down to refresh

that was something that I think was in a

Twitter client and um you know that I

think that founder ended up selling

their Twitter client to Twitter and

working at Twitter for a while but there

there's all kinds of new interactions

that I think we have not figured out yet

like the sort of like pinch to move

around is merely the first of a whole

bunch of different things that frankly

end user develop you sort developers

will actually figure out I think I'm

curious also di um what's what's the

difference for a developer between the

meta SDK and the Apple Vision Pro

SDK uh one of the big ones is meta comes

from the DNA of gaming so they have very

good support for Unity and unreal and

those are game engines which are cool to

build for games 3D environments in a

game which are L literally more like a

constrained 3D world but for spatial or

spatial

computation the real world is in infite

so sometimes game engines don't quite

fit and one one of the things you'll

notice um to build an application that

opens a

PDF for The Meta for The Meta platform

it actually takes a lot of lines of code

huh whereas to build that for the vision

OS is actually just few lines of code

interesting I guess the other big

question uh that probably a lot of

people in the community have is this a

iPhone moment or a Newton

moment well when the iPhone first

launched there wasn't actually an app

store right so I think that came maybe a

year later something like that all of

the initial apps that got Distribution

on the App Store were like frivolous

apps right it's like the fart app

there's

like a bunch of things that were getting

really popular the $2,000 I am rich app

which is like a image of a ruby or

something yeah oh my God and if you

think about from our like at least the

YC perspective the iPhone or mobile

didn't start start driving really big

companies being started until I would

say probably like 2012 like 2012 is the

year where we had instacart come through

I actually think mobile was a a fairly

big component of coinbase right like

they the fact that they just had a easy

to use mobile app um door Dash was 2013

and so all of these things start and you

course you had the rise of uber not YC

company but it took so you could say 5

Years From the launch of the iPhone for

for the actual good companies to even be

founded

right and so yeah so you haven't missed

it yet yeah well I don't when I'm when I

think about the Vision Pro I'm not sure

if we're at like is this the iPhone

moment in the sense of the iPhone just

got launched and um like it's still

going to be a few years or is this like

hey actually like this is this device

has been around for a while this is just

like the iteration that was needed on it

to unlock like the insta carts and door

dashes and Ubers that are going to be

built on it I'll give one argument for

why it's probably more like the iPhone

moment we don't know but um you know

when the iPhone came out like people

forget smartphones were already an

established category and the iPhone was

like the new entrant to this like

established C A lot of people were

skeptical that Apple could actually

execute as you and as you mentioned were

very skeptical of the iPhone as a as a

as as the right product to challenge the

Blackberry and the other like incumbent

Smartphones at the time famous Steve bom

quote about I think there's like Steve

Bama just you know making fun of it and

saying it would never be a serious

device right right right um why was it

that it took like five years for the

good iPhone companies to come out I

think adoption had to happen so that's

why it actually Maps very closely I mean

I don't know how many Apple actually

sold but it's probably on the order of

hundred hundreds of thousands right so

which probably mirrors the iPhone maybe

the iPhone you know broke a million even

uh when you look back to the instacart

or door Dash or Uber moment these mobile

workforces could only happen at the

moment that 70 to 80% of the people in

society had these devices and the reason

why that was such an important moment

was that was the first time normal

average people had always on internet

connectivity and uh an app ecosystem

that was actually stable enough you know

remember back you know the sort of 10

years before it was like j2me or do we

write it in Flash you know Gustaf and

his you know Voxer

and hyan experience you know the

platforms were literally so broken and

so fragmented that you couldn't have 80%

of the population on one platform and

then suddenly all of the platforms sort

of coalesced and then it opened up the

market I guess a question with this

device uh and in general with VR it will

be different than mobile it won't be a

type of device perhaps I mean it depends

on the price point when it gets to maybe

phone cost perh perhaps but it will take

a a lot of time before we get that level

of mass adoption but I think what could

happen is it will capture a lot of the

kind of high-end use with what we talked

about earlier with high information

density construction cat engineering

type of

workflows so Diana and I were actually

doing group office hours yesterday with

um a group of our companies in this

current Batch who are all working of

Hardware hard tech ideas um and we did

this exercise we call it the premortem

where um you sort of give them different

flavors of how companies can die spec

and you get them to say this is like how

I think I'm most likely to die right and

like the one I'm coming up the thing

that Springs to mind here is we were

talking about how um Tesla strategy was

very successful to launch the Roadster

like a very highend device and then you

bring out like the model S and the model

3 and the model y um but like that

wouldn't have worked if they just stuck

with the Roadster right and so maybe one

failure mode for the Vision Pro is like

this is the Tesla Roadster it's great it

carves out like a niche for people who

are really into this stuff and are

willing to pay like for a very highend

device but it can't follow it up with

like the model three and I think there a

bit of a chicken and egg aspect with it

because for this to be relevant to

become the model 3 let's say we need a

ecosystem of applications and and

incentive for developers to work on it

because if I were a Founder right now

and I'm looking for a new idea do what

do I want to put all my eggs on here

when there's not enough user yet when

should I do it should I just take a leap

of faith on how do we advise Founders

when they're in this space like why

should they do it I definitely think

that's relevant to like the instacart

door Dash thing for example if you think

about it like those companies weren't

making a bet like their apps were not

specific to iOS or apple right like like

like everybody had a device they worked

equally well on like Android they

frankly they could have just been a web

view stuffed like in an app right and so

that's a good point that's and they also

weren't the first entrance in their

categories like before door Dash and

instacart there were many would have

like would be door Dash and instacart

players that launched earlier that

actually didn't succeed yeah well even

more extreme like they the in their case

mobile actually made ideas that seemed

very bad like good ones I I actually

think it's really cool that sequire

invested in instacart because they'd had

the big failure with like webban and so

they had all this egg on their face with

like grocery delivery is this bad idea

that like um you would expect it's very

natural to never want to fund that again

but like mobile actually turned that

into a good idea I did a dinner talk

with the with Max the co-founder of

instacart and he said that when seoa led

the series a for instacart they gave him

the web fan business plan that they had

been given in the 9s but the problem was

it was on a floppy disc and he couldn't

find a floppy disc reader so he never

read

it that's

hilarious uh I'm sort of taken by even

the path of um consumer social networks

you know Facebook started as the Blue

app you know it was a desktop experience

killing Myspace it sort of looked like

uh literally Bank software like if you

logged into Facebook or you know

chase.com it even had the same color and

um they I I remember being at YC when

Mark Zuckerberg came to talk about why

they bought Oculus and it was actually

very much from what I could tell um

trying to fight the last war that uh

Facebook had just bought Instagram I

think it had not bought WhatsApp yet um

and they felt he felt really scared like

that basically Facebook had this

Monopoly it had like owned the industry

of uh you know consumer social but but

then they almost lost it because

Instagram you know easily could have

outstripped it and um that was because

of a platform shift and so he wanted to

you know very clearly own the next

platform and he's right should Founders

go build on this is this a good

opportunity for startups I just sort of

wonder what are the things that could

actually fully take advantage of this in

um a real sort of professional context I

mean where my head goes maybe it's too

obvious but Traders with their like sort

of 20 screens you know wouldn't you

rather have something that allowed you

to take in the breadth of that

information and dive into it very easily

just by going like that you you can

imagine that being something that people

are actually willing to pay not just you

know hundreds of dollars a month but

maybe thousands of dollars a month for I

think we're going to be in uh quite some

time at the beginning in this awkward pH

with spatial Computing type of apps

because even with uh the Apple SDK and

meta a lot of things are still flat

2D and I don't think we know how to

develop for develop for full 3d what

really truly takes advantage of this

platform what is unique about this

platform whether it's you know 360

degree view being able to dive into more

data easily like what are aspects of

this new technology that mean that it

can upend even what seems like an

unassailable incumbent like you know

Snapchat versus Facebook but would part

of you try and talk them out of it like

would part of you be thinking this is

too early you should work on something

else and not I think if you look back in

our history YC has weirdly been pretty

good at this where every time there's a

platform shift whether it's like the

Facebook thing which didn't go anywhere

or the iOS thing which did go go places

we were reasonably accurate actually

funding the right stuff and I think the

way that we did it is rather than having

a strong thesis on on each technology

and each platform we just kind of look

at each application from first

principles and we talk to the founders

and they have some idea we just try to

figure out if the idea makes sense I

think that's what allows us to have had

a pretty good track record of

discriminating people who are just like

cargo culting the new thing and just

like jumping on the hype train and have

some idea that doesn't really make sense

from the people who are building

something like door Dash that actually

like totally makes sense yeah it's fine

I I mean the other thing that I would

look at to Jared's point is actually

there's a strong belief from the founder

that they want to make a bet in the

space I think there's just something

about Founders where they go all in they

become Unstoppable and it's going to

take time so they have to have the faith

that this is going to be different than

building let's say a standard SAS

application or consumer app or AI

application let's say if you stick long

enough you're going to build a lot of

expertise and be World Class by the time

is the right moment but someone that's

genuinely excited about it and the cool

thing about it there's a lot of

technical challenge with it which I

think is going to attract the right kind

of Founders because it's actually hard

to build something good on this right

now because it's so new so this will be

the main thing I'll look for when I'm

reading applications for people putting

VR stuff actually and I feel okay

sharing it because it's very hard to

fake it's basically what we're saying is

if you're the kind of person that just

is irrationally compelled to build

applications for VR we will happily fund

you and like we need some evidence of

that just like you just like your SP in

your free time you are like building VR

apps and you have been for a while like

yeah we would never try and discourage

Founders from building stuff they just

think is cool well that's a great place

to end we're out of time but thank you

guys another good episode of the light

cone guys see you next time catch you

guys

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