Tucker Carlson and Mike Benz reveals the main driver of censorship in the United States

Summary

The video transcript delves into the erosion of freedom of speech in the United States, driven by censorship efforts stemming from the military-industrial complex and foreign policy establishment. It explores how these institutions, initially championing internet freedom as a tool for regime change, have now shifted to curbing free speech under the guise of combating disinformation. The conversation with cybersecurity expert Mike Benz unravels the intricate web of collusion between government agencies, tech companies, and NGOs in facilitating censorship, with a particular focus on the role of NATO, the intelligence community, and the Aspen Institute. Benz also discusses the threat posed by EU censorship laws and the challenges faced by platforms like Twitter (now X) in maintaining free speech amidst mounting pressures.

Takeaways

• 😶Freedom of speech, a foundational right in the US, is rapidly eroding due to increasing censorship.
• 🕵️Censorship has evolved from traditional forms to target "disinformation" and "misinformation", regardless of factual accuracy.
• 📡The US government, defense contractors, and foreign policy institutions are actively stripping away free speech rights.
• 🌐The internet and social media were initially championed by the US government as tools for regime change and dissent, but that stance has reversed since 2014.
• 👥The military-industrial complex, NGOs, and think tanks have formed a censorship industry to control narratives and elections globally.
• 🇺🇸US national security agencies like the CIA and NSA have been deeply involved in shaping censorship policies and coordinating with tech companies.
• 🇪🇺NATO has formally committed to "hybrid warfare", using censorship to combat "Russian propaganda" and counter domestic political groups.
• 🚫Platforms like Twitter (now X) face immense pressure to comply with censorship laws and regulations, especially from the EU's Digital Services Act.
• ⚖️Legal challenges like Missouri v. Biden and Congressional investigations have exposed the depth of the censorship industry.
• 🔑X (formerly Twitter) remains one of the last major platforms allowing relatively free speech, but faces escalating threats to its continued freedom.

Q & A

What is the defining fact of the United States according to the speaker?

The defining fact of the United States is freedom of speech, as guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights. The speaker argues that this freedom makes the US exceptional.

What is the speaker's opinion on hate speech and its regulation?

The speaker believes that there should be no hate speech exception to the freedom of speech. Even if someone hates what another person thinks, they cannot force that person to be silent, as they are citizens, not slaves.

What is the speaker's view on the current state of censorship in the US?

The speaker believes that the right to freedom of speech, which is foundational to the US, is disappearing at a high speed due to modern censorship. This censorship is being carried out under the guise of fighting disinformation and misinformation, without regard for the truth.

Who is Mike Benz, and what is his expertise?

Mike Benz is the executive director of the Foundation for Freedom Online. He is considered an expert on how censorship happens, having previously held the cyber portfolio at the US State Department.

What is the role of the military-industrial complex and the defense industry in censorship, according to Mike Benz?

Mike Benz explains that the military-industrial complex, defense contractors, the Department of Defense, and the foreign policy establishment in Washington are stripping away freedom of speech, especially as the world approaches global war. This censorship is being carried out under the guise of fighting disinformation and misinformation.

How did the US government initially view internet freedom, according to Mike Benz?

Mike Benz explains that the US government, including the Pentagon, State Department, and intelligence agencies, initially championed internet freedom as an instrument of statecraft. They used it to support dissident groups around the world and overthrow authoritarian governments.

What was the turning point that led to the US government's shift from supporting internet freedom to censorship?

According to Mike Benz, the turning point was the 2014 coup in Ukraine and the subsequent annexation of Crimea by Russia. After Crimea voted to join the Russian Federation, NATO declared that the fundamental nature of war had changed, and control over the media and social media was now crucial for controlling elections.

What is the role of think tanks and NGOs in the censorship industry, according to Mike Benz?

Mike Benz explains that think tanks and NGOs like the Atlantic Council, the Aspen Institute, and others, funded by the government, play a crucial role in the censorship industry. They coordinate with the military and intelligence agencies to censor "Russian propaganda" and "domestic right-wing populist groups" in Europe.

What is the current threat to freedom of speech on the X platform (formerly Twitter), according to Mike Benz?

Mike Benz believes that the primary threat to freedom of speech on X (formerly Twitter) comes from the EU's Digital Services Act, which bans "disinformation" and forces X to comply with censorship laws or face significant financial penalties. He also mentions the risk of advertiser boycotts and ongoing investigations into Elon Musk's companies by US government agencies.

What is the Foundation for Freedom Online, and how can people learn more about Mike Benz's work?

The Foundation for Freedom Online is the organization led by Mike Benz, which publishes reports and research on various aspects of the censorship industry. People can learn more about Benz's work on the foundation's website, foundationforfreedonomline.com, or by following his Twitter handle @MikeBenzCyber.

Outlines

00:00

🗽 Censorship: The End of Free Speech in America

The defining fact of the United States is freedom of speech, but this fundamental right is rapidly eroding due to modern censorship practices. Censorship is no longer based on traditional methods but on the pretense of fighting disinformation and misinformation, regardless of the factual accuracy of the information being suppressed. This censorship is not limited to the private sector but is being directed by the US government, stripping citizens of their rights to express their views, both in person and online. The expert Mike Benz, who had the Cyber portfolio at the State Department and is now the Executive Director of the Foundation for Freedom Online, is introduced as someone who has comprehensive knowledge on this topic.

05:00

🌐 The Evolution of Internet Freedom and Censorship

Mike Benz explains that free speech on the internet was initially championed by the Pentagon, State Department, and intelligence services as an instrument of statecraft to support dissident groups and facilitate regime change operations around the world. Internet freedom was used to circumvent state control over media and overthrow authoritarian governments. Tech companies like Google were initially funded by DARPA and the CIA to develop technologies like search engines, VPNs, and encrypted chats, which were later used to assist intelligence-backed groups. This strategy worked effectively from 1991 until around 2014 when an unexpected counter-coup in Crimea led to a change in NATO's perspective. NATO declared that the fundamental nature of war had changed, and controlling the media and social media ecosystem was more important than military skirmishes. At this point, NATO began targeting Russian propaganda as well as domestic right-wing populist groups in Europe, using a systematic censorship apparatus created in partnership with the military and social media companies.

10:01

🇪🇺 The Expansion of Censorship and the NATO-Tech Company Collaboration

After the Brexit vote in 2016, NATO formally amended its charter to commit to hybrid warfare, explicitly building capacity for censoring online content deemed to be Russian proxies or from rising political groups that wanted to maintain relations with Russia. NATO began publishing white papers stating that the biggest threat it faced was not a military invasion from Russia but losing domestic elections across Europe. This led to NATO collaborating with think tanks, NGOs, and tech companies to censor content deemed to be disinformation or misinformation. The Aspen Institute, funded by the State Department and other government agencies, was involved in a coordinated effort to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story before the 2020 election. The interstitial government-funded organizations, like the Atlantic Council and the Aspen Institute, played a key role in facilitating this censorship in coordination with the National Security State.

15:03

🐘 Elon Musk and the Future of Free Speech on X (Twitter)

The conversation shifts to discussing the future of free speech on X (formerly Twitter) under Elon Musk's ownership. While Musk has a unique buffer against the National Security State due to its reliance on his companies like Tesla and SpaceX, he is facing immense pressure and scrutiny. The National Security State is attempting to induce a "corporate regime change" through various investigations and regulatory actions against Musk's companies. Additionally, there is a "transatlantic flank attack 2.0" underway, as the censorship industry has lost some of its federal powers due to legal challenges and political changes. They are now pushing for state-level censorship laws, like the one recently passed in California, and leveraging European regulations like the EU Digital Services Act to force platforms like X to comply with censorship demands or face massive fines. The EU's disinformation laws, influenced by organizations like NewsGuard with ties to the CIA, NSA, and NATO, pose a significant threat to X's operations in Europe. With numerous elections approaching globally, the pressure on X to censor content deemed "disinformation" by these entities is expected to intensify.

20:03

🔊 The Importance of Protecting Free Speech

In the closing remarks, Mike Benz emphasizes the profound nature of the information he has shared, highlighting the remarkable story of the censorship industry's origins, evolution, and current efforts to maintain control over online speech. The conversation underscores the critical importance of protecting free speech, which defines what an organization or society will not permit. The current situation represents a total inversion of virtue, where censorship is being wielded to manipulate public discourse and undermine fundamental rights, as defined by the First Amendment and the principles of democracy.

Keywords

💡First Amendment

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution protects freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition. It guarantees freedom of speech, allowing individuals to express themselves without government restraint. In the video's context, the First Amendment is highlighted as a foundational right that underpins the exceptional nature of freedom in the U.S. It's argued that this right is under threat from modern forms of censorship, which do not necessarily involve direct government action but can result from government influence on private sectors or through legislation aimed at combating disinformation, thereby indirectly eroding the right to free speech.

💡Censorship

Censorship in the video is discussed as the suppression or limitation of speech, communication, or other information. This concept is crucial as the video suggests that modern censorship in the U.S. is significantly different from historical forms, being more covert and implemented under the guise of fighting disinformation or 'malinformation.' The video claims that such censorship is not only conducted by private entities but is also directed or influenced by government agencies, posing a fundamental threat to the freedom of speech and the essence of democracy.

💡Disinformation

Disinformation refers to false information spread deliberately to deceive. The video discusses disinformation as a pretext used by various actors, including government and private sectors, to justify censorship. The narrative suggests that labeling content as disinformation has become a tool to suppress free speech, regardless of the truthfulness of the information being shared. This approach to combating disinformation is criticized for its potential to silence dissent and control public discourse.

💡Internet Freedom

Internet freedom is mentioned in the video as the unregulated state of the Internet, where individuals can freely express themselves and access information without censorship. Initially, the U.S. government, including the Defense Department and State Department, supported internet freedom as a means to aid dissidents in authoritarian countries. However, the video suggests a shift from promoting internet freedom to internet censorship, driven by geopolitical events and the perceived need to control disinformation and maintain national security.

💡Military-Industrial Complex

The military-industrial complex refers to the relationship between a country's military and the defense industry that supplies it, seen together as a vested interest which influences public policy. The video points out that censorship is not only emanating from the traditional sectors but also from the military-industrial complex, especially in the context of foreign policy and defense interests. This form of censorship is particularly focused on controlling information that affects the defense industry's interests or the national security agenda.

💡Hybrid Warfare

Hybrid warfare is a strategy that blends conventional warfare, irregular warfare, and cyberwarfare with other influencing methods, such as fake news and elections meddling. The video discusses NATO's adoption of hybrid warfare tactics, including efforts to control social media and public discourse to counteract perceived threats from adversaries like Russia. This concept is crucial to understanding the video's argument that modern censorship extends beyond traditional means to include manipulation of information and public perception on a global scale.

💡National Security State

The national security state is a concept referring to a government where the protection of national security is used as a rationale for state actions, including surveillance, secrecy, and censorship. The video suggests that the U.S. has evolved into a national security state where censorship and control of information are justified by the need to combat threats to national security. This transformation is argued to have led to the erosion of individual rights, including freedom of speech, under the guise of protecting national interests.

💡Digital MK Ultra

This term, mentioned in the video, draws an analogy to the CIA's MK Ultra project, which was a series of secret experiments on human subjects, designed to identify and develop drugs and procedures to be used in interrogations. 'Digital MK Ultra' is used to describe modern psychological manipulation and censorship practices, suggesting that just as MK Ultra sought to control minds through drugs and torture, current digital censorship efforts seek to manipulate public opinion and control the narrative through information suppression.

💡EU Digital Services Act

The EU Digital Services Act is legislation by the European Union aimed at regulating digital platforms to ensure they operate transparently and are accountable for the content they host. In the video, this act is discussed as a significant threat to platforms like X (formerly Twitter), as it imposes stringent regulations on content moderation, potentially forcing platforms to censor content deemed as disinformation by the EU. This illustrates the global reach of efforts to control online speech and the challenges faced by platforms striving to maintain a free speech ethos.

💡Foundation for Freedom Online

This entity is referenced in the video as a foundation led by Mike Benz, who is presented as an expert on censorship and the dynamics between the state, technology, and individual freedoms. The Foundation for Freedom Online is depicted as a resource for understanding the mechanisms of modern censorship and the encroachment of government and private interests on individual rights. Its inclusion underscores the video's emphasis on the need for vigilance and advocacy to protect freedom of speech in the digital age.

Highlights

The defining fact of the United States is freedom of speech, considered exceptional due to the First Amendment.

Modern censorship differs significantly from past regimes, being implemented under the guise of fighting disinformation and malinformation.

Censorship efforts are directed by the US government, impacting the foundational right of freedom of speech.

Mike Benz, expert on censorship mechanics, discusses the shift from internet freedom to internet censorship.

The Pentagon, State Department, and intelligence services originally championed free speech on the internet to support dissident groups globally.

The role of Google and other tech companies in internet censorship, initially funded by DARPA and CIA/NSA programs.

The shift in internet freedom's utility around 2014, especially after the coup in Ukraine and the annexation vote in Crimea.

NATO's declaration of the Joff Doctrine, indicating a change in the nature of war to include media and social media control.

The creation of a political warfare infrastructure by NATO, the Pentagon, and European defense agencies to censor perceived threats.

Brexit as a crisis moment for NATO, leading to the amendment of its charter to commit to hybrid warfare, including social media censorship.

The systematic targeting of domestic right-wing populist groups in Europe by the US and NATO for censorship.

The Aspen Institute's role in coordinated censorship and its funding from the US government.

Elon Musk's unique position against censorship due to his companies' dependencies on and contributions to the National Security State.

The transatlantic effort to enforce censorship laws, such as the EU Digital Services Act, threatening platforms like X (formerly Twitter).

Mike Benz's foundation, Foundation for Freedom Online, as a resource for research on the censorship industry and its implications for democracy.

Transcripts

the defining fact of the United States

is freedom of speech to the extent this

country is actually exceptional it's

because we have the First Amendment to

the Bill of Rights we have freedom of

conscience we can say what we really

think there's no hate speech exception

to that just because you hate what

somebody else thinks you cannot force

that person to be quiet because we're

citizens not slaves but that right that

foundational right that makes this

country what it is that right from which

all other rights flow is going away at

high speed in the face of censorship now

modern censorship there's no resemblance

to previous censorship regimes in

previous countries and previous eras our

censorship is affected on the basis of

fights against disinformation and Mal

information and the key thing to know

about these is they're everywhere and of

course

they have no reference at all to whether

what you're saying is true or not in

other words you can say something that

is factually accurate inconsistent with

your own conscience and in previous

versions of America you had an absolute

right to say those things but because

someone doesn't like them or because

they're inconvenient to whatever plan

the people in power have they can be

denounced as

disinformation and you could be stripped

of your right to express them either in

person or online in fact expressing

these things can become a criminal act

and is and it's important to know by the

way that this is not just the private

sector doing this these efforts are

being directed by the US government

which you pay for and at least

theoretically own it's your government

but they're stripping your rights at

very high speed most people understand

this intuitively but they don't know how

it happens how does censorship happen

what are the mechanics of it Mike Benz

is we can say with some confidence the

expert in the world on how this happens

Mike Ben had the Cyber portfolio at the

state department he's now executive

director of foundation for freedom

online and we're going to going to have

a conversation with him about a very

specific kind of censorship by the way

we can't recommend strongly enough if

you want to know how this happens Mike

Benz

bnz is the man to read but today we just

want to talk about a specific kind of

censorship and that censorship that

emanates from the fabled

military-industrial complex from our

defense industry in the foreign policy

establishment in Washington that's

significant now because we're on the

cusp of a global war and so you can

expect censorship to increase

dramatically and so with that here is

Mike Benz executive director of

foundation for freedom online Mike

thanks so much for joining us and I and

I just can't overstate to our audience

how exhaustive and comprehensive your

knowledge is on this topic it's almost

it's almost unbelievable um and so if

you could just walk us through how the

foreign policy establishment and defense

contractors and and DOD and and just the

whole cluster the constellation of

Defense related publicly funded

institutions stripped from us our

freedom of speech sure you know one of

the easiest ways to actually start the

story is really with the story of

Internet freedom and it switched from

internet freedom to internet censorship

because free speech on the internet was

an instrument of statecraft almost from

the outset of the privatization of the

internet in

1991 uh we quickly discovered through

the uh efforts of the defense department

the state department and our

intelligence services that people were

using the internet to congregate on

blogs and forums and Free Speech was

championed more than anybody by the

Pentagon the state department and our

sort of CIA cutout NGO blob architecture

as a way to support dissident groups

around the world in order to help them

overthrow authoritarian governments as

they were sort of build essentially the

interet internet free speech allowed

kind of insta regime change operations

uh to be be able to facilitate the

foreign policy establishment's State

Department agenda Google is a great

example of this Google began as a DARPA

Grant uh by Larry Page and Sergey brenn

when they were Stanford phds and they

they got their funding as part of a

joint CIA NSA program to chart how quote

birds of a feather flock together online

through search engine aggregation and

then one year later they launched Google

and then became a military contractor

quickly thereafter they got Google Maps

by purchasing a CIA satellite software

essentially uh and the ability to track

to use free speech on the internet as a

way to circumvent State control over

media over in places like Central Asia

or all around the world was seen as a

way to be able to do what used to be

done out of CIA station houses or out of

embassies or consulates in a way that

that was totally turbocharged and all of

the internet free speech technology was

initially created by our National

Security State vpns virtual private

networks to hide your your IP address

tour the dark web to be able to buy and

Trail uh sell Goods anonymously endend

encrypted chats all of these things were

created initially as DARPA projects or

as joint CIA NSA projects to be able to

help intelligence backed groups to

overthrow governments that were causing

a problem uh to the Clinton

Administration or the Bush

Administration or the Obama

Administration and this plan worked

magically from about 1991 until about

2014 uh when there began to be an about

face on internet freedom and its utility

now the high Watermark of the sort of

internet free speech moment was the Arab

Spring in 2011 2012 when you had this

one by one all of the adversary

governments of the Obama Administration

Egypt Tunisia all began to be toppled in

Facebook revolutions and Twitter

revolutions and you had the state

department working very closely with the

social media companies to be able to

keep social media online during those

periods there's a famous phone call from

Google's Jared Coen to Twitter to uh not

do their scheduled maintenance so that

uh dis so that the preferred opposition

group in Iran would be able to use

Twitter uh to uh to to win that election

so it was an in free speech was an

instrument of statecraft from the

National Security State to begin with

all of that architecture all the NOS the

relationships between the tech companies

and the National Security State had been

long established for freedom in

2014 after the coup in Ukraine There Was

An Unexpected counter coup where Crimea

and the donbass broke away and they

broke away with essentially a military

back stop that NATO was highly

unprepared for at the time they had one

last Hail Mary chance which was the

Crimea annexation vote on uh in in

2014 uh and when the hearts and minds of

the people of Crimea voted uh to join

the Russian Federation that was the last

straw for the concept of free speech on

the internet in the eyes of NATO as they

saw it the fundamental nature of War

changed at that moment and NATO at that

point declared something that they first

called the Joff Doctrine which is named

after this Russian military General uh

who they claimed made a speech that the

fundamental nature of War has changed

you don't need to win military

skirmishes to take over Central and

Eastern Europe all you need to do is

control the media and the social media

ecosystem because that's what controls

elections and if you simply get the

right Administration into power they

control the military so it's infinitely

cheaper than conducting a military war

to Simply conduct an organized political

uh influence operation over social media

and Legacy Media an industry had been

created that spanned the Pentagon the

the British Ministry of defense and

Brussels into a organized political

Warfare outfit essentially

infrastructure that was created

initially stationed in Germany and in

Central and Eastern Europe to create

psychological buffer zones basically to

create the ability to to have the

military work with the social media

companies to censor Russian propaganda

or to censor domestic right-wing

populist groups in Europe who are rising

in political power at the time because

of the migrant crisis so you had the

systematic targeting by our state

department by our IC by the Pentagon of

groups like Germany's afd the

alternative for deuts land there and for

groups in Estonia lvia Lithuania now

when brexit happened in

2016 it was that was that was this

crisis moment where suddenly they didn't

have to worry just about Central and

Eastern Europe anymore it was coming

Westward this idea of Russian control

over hearts and minds and and so at that

was brexit was June 2016 the very next

month at the war at the Warsaw

conference NATO formally amended its

Charter to to expressly commit to hybrid

Warfare as their as this new NATO

capacity so they went from you know

basically 70 years of of Tanks to this

explicit capacity building for for

censoring tweets if they were deemed to

be Russian proxies and again it's not

just Russian propaganda this was these

were now brexit groups or groups like

Mato salvini in in Italy uh or in Greece

or in Germany or in in Spain with the

Vox party and now at the time NATO was

publishing white papers saying that the

biggest threat NATO faces is not

actually a military Invasion From Russia

it's losing domestic elections across

Europe of course democracy again has

that magic regime change predicate where

democracy is is our magic watch word to

be able to overthrow governments from

the ground up in a sort of color

Revolution style whole of society effort

to topple a a a democratically elected

government from the inside for example

as we did in Ukraine Victor yanukovich

was democratically elected by the

Ukrainian people like like him or hate

him I'm not even issuing an opinion

there but the fact is is we color

Revolution him out of office we January

6th him out of office actually to be

frank I mean with respect to the you had

you know a state department funded right

sector Thugs and you know $5 billion

worth of Civil Society money pumped into

this to overthrow a democratically

elected government in the name of

democracy and they took that special set

of skills home and now it's

here perhaps potentially to stay and

this is fundamentally changed the the

nature of American governance because of

the threat of you know One Small Voice

becoming popular on social media May me

ask you a question so into that that

group of Institutions that you say say

Now define democracy the

ngo's um foreign policy establish Etc

you you included the mainstream media

now in 2021 the NSA broke into my

private text apps and read them and then

leaked them to the New York Times

against me that just happened again to

me last week um and I'm wondering how

common that is for the Intel agencies to

work with so-called mainstream media

like the New York Times to hurt their

opponents well that is the function of

these interstitial government funded

non-governmental organizations and think

tanks like for example we mentioned the

Atlantic Council which is you know

NATO's think tank but other groups like

The Aspen Institute which draws the line

share of its funding from the state

department and other government agencies

you know the Aspen Institute was busted

doing the same thing with the hunter

Biden laptop censorship you know you had

this strange situation where the FBI had

Advanced knowledge of the pending

publication of the hunter Biden laptop

story and then magically the Aspen

Institute which is run by essentially

former CIA former NSA former FBI and

then a bunch of sort of Civil Society

organizations uh all hold a mass uh

stakeholder simulation censorship

simulation a three-day uh conference you

know this came out and Yol Roth was

there this was a big part of the Twitter

file leaks and it's been mentioned in

multiple Congressional investigations

but somehow the Aspen Institute uh which

is basically an addendum of the National

Security State uh got the exact same

information that the National Security

State spied on journalists and political

figures to obtain and not only leaked it

but then basically did a joint

coordinated censorship simulator in SE

in September two months before the

election in order just just like with

the censorship of mail and ballots to be

in ready position to pre- censor anyone

online amplifying a news story that had

not even broken yet the Aspen Institute

so I mean which is by the way I'm spent

my life in Washington it's kind of a I

mean Walter Isaacson former Le of Time

Magazine ran it for former president of

CNN um I had no idea it was part of the

National Security State I had no idea

it's funding came from the US government

you're this is the first time I've ever

heard that but given assuming what

you're saying is true it's a little

weird that Walter isacson left aspidin

to to write a biography of Elon Musk

strange or no yeah um you know I don't

know I I've I haven't read that book I I

from what I've heard from people it's a

relatively fair treatment I you just

total speculation but I suspect that

Walter isacon has struggled with this

issue and may not even firmly fall in

one particular place uh in the sense

that you know Walter Rison did a series

of interviews of Rick stangle uh

actually with the Atlantic Council and

and in other settings uh where he

interviewed Rick stangle specifically on

the issue of uh of you know the the need

to get rid of the First Amendment and

the threat that free speech on social

media poses to democracy now at the time

I was very concerned this was between

2017 and 2019 when he did these Rick

stangle interviews I was very concerned

because Isaacson expressed what seemed

to me to be a highly sympathetic uh view

about the Rick stangle you know

perspective on killing the First

Amendment now he didn't formerly endorse

that position but it left me very

skittish about Isaacson but what I

should say is at the time I don't think

very many people in fact I know

virtually nobody in the country um uh

had any idea how deep the rabbit hole

went when it came to the construction of

of the censorship industry and the the

the How deep the tentacles had grown

within the military and the National

Security State in order to buoy and

consolidate it much of that frankly did

not even come to public light until uh

until even last year you frankly some of

that was galvanized by Elon musk's

acquisition and the Twitter files and

the Republican turnover in the house

that allowed these multiple

investigations uh the lawsuits like

Missouri V Biden the discovery process

there uh and and you know multiple other

things like the disinformation

governance board who by the way the

interim head of that you the head of

that Nina jankov

got her start uh in the censorship

industry from this exact same um

clandestine intelligence Community

censorship Network created after the

2014 crimeia situation Nina jankovitz

when when her name came up in 2022 as

part of disinform disinformation

governance board I almost fell out of my

chair because I had been tracking Nina's

Network for almost five years at that

point when her when her name came up as

part of the UK inner cluster cell of a

busted clandestine operation to censor

the internet called the Integrity

initiative which was created by the UK

foreign office and was backed by NATO's

political Affairs uh unit in order to

cre to carry out this thing that we

talked about at the beginning of this of

this dialogue the NATO uh sort of

psychological inoculation uh and uh the

the ability to kill so-called Russian

propaganda or Rising political groups

who wanted uh to maintain relations with

Russia at a time when the US was trying

to kill the nordstream and other and

other uh pipeline relations well they

did that Marine Leen

and Nina janovitz was a part of this

this outfit and then who is the who was

the head of it after Nina jankovitz went

down it was Michael cherto and Michael

cherto was running the the Aspen

Institute cyber group and then this and

the Aspen Institute then goes on to be

the censorship Simulator for the Hun

Biden laptop story and then two years

later Jer off is then the head of the

disinformation governance board after

Nina is forced to step down yeah a close

friends of course Michael chto was the

chairman at Bay sorry sorry of course

Michael chof was a the chairman of the

yeah the the largest military contractor

in Europe uh Bae uh military so so

you've blown my mind so many times in

this conversation that I'm going to need

a nap directly after it's done so I've

just got two more two more questions for

you one short one a little longer short

one is for people who've made it this

far an hour in and want to know more

about this topic and by the way I hope

you will come back whenever you have the

time um to explore different threads of

the story but for people who want to do

research on their own how can your

research on this um be found on the

internet sure so our foundation is

foundationfor freedom

online.com uh we we publish all manner

of of reports on every aspect of the

censorship industry from from what we

talked about with the role of the

military-industrial complex in the

National Security State to what the

universities are doing to you know I

sometimes refer to as digital MK Ultra

there's just the field of basically the

science of censorship and how and and

the funding of these psychological

manipulation methods in order to nudge

people into different belief systems as

they did with covid as they did with

energy and and every sensitive policy

issue is what they essentially had an

ambition for but so the my foundation

for for Freedom online.com website is

one way the other way is just on X uh my

handle is at Mike Ben cyber I'm very

active there and uh publish a lot of

long form video and written content on

all this I think it's one of the most

important issues in the world today so

it certainly is and so that leads

directly and seamlessly to my final

question um which is about X and I'm not

just saying this because I post content

there but I think objectively it's the

last big platform that's free or sort of

free or more free you post there too um

but you know we're at the very beginning

of an election election year with a

couple of different Wars unfolding

simultaneously uh in in 2024 so do you

expect that that PL platform can stay

free for the duration of this year it's

under an extraordinary an extraordinary

amount of pressure and that pressure is

going to continue to mount as the

election approaches um Elon Musk is a

very unique individual and he has a

unique buffer perhaps when it comes to

the National Security State because the

National Security State is actually

quite Rel

on um on Elon Musk properties whether

that's for the uh the electrical you

know the sort of the the Green

Revolution when it comes to Tesla and uh

and and the Battery Technology there

when it comes when it comes to SpaceX uh

the state department is hugely dependent

on on SpaceX uh because of its

unbelievable uh sort of pioneering and

saturating presence in the field of low

earth orbit satellites that uh are

basically how our Telecom you know

system runs to things like starlink

there there are dependencies that the

National Security state has on Elon Musk

I'm not sure he'd have as much room to

negotiate if he had become the world's

richest man selling you know at a

lemonade stand uh so there's there's and

if the the National Security State goes

too hard on him by invoking something

like cifas to sort of nationalize some

of these properties I think the shock

wave that it would send to the

international investor Community would

be irrecoverable at a time when we're

engaging power competition so they're

trying to kill you know they're trying

to sort of induce a I think a sort of

corporate regime change through uh a

series of things involving a sort of

death by a thousand paper cuts I think

there are seven or eight different um

justice department or SEC or FTC

investigations into Elon Musk properties

that all started um after his

acquisition of of X but then what

they're trying to do right now is what I

call the transatlantic flank attack 2.0

you know we talked in this in in this

dialogue about how the censorship

industry really got its start when a

bunch of State Department Exiles uh who

were expecting promotions took their

special set of skills in coercing

European countries to pass uh sanctions

on themselves to cut off their own leg

to spite themselves uh in order to pass

sanctions on Russia they ran back that

same Playbook with doing a road show for

censorship instead for sanctions we're

now witnessing you know transatlantic

flank attack 2.0 if you will which is

because they have lost a lot of their

Federal government legit uh powers to do

this same censorship operation they had

been doing from 2018 to 2022 in part

because the house has has totally turned

on them in part because of the media in

part because Missouri V Biden which won

a a slam dunk case actually Banning

government censorship at the trial court

and Appel Court levels is now between

the uh before The Supreme Court they've

now moved into two strategies one of

them is is state level uh censorship

laws California just passed a new law

which the censorship industry totally

drove from start to finish around

require they call it transform plat you

know platform accountability and

transparency which is basically forcing

you know Elon Musk to give over the kind

of narrative mapping data that these CIA

conduits and Pentagon cutouts were using

to create these weapons of mass deletion

these abilities to just censor

everything at scale because they had all

the internal platform data Elon mus took

that away they're using state laws like

this new California law to crack that

open but the the major right now is the

threat from Europe uh with with you know

something called the uh the EU Digital

Services act which was cooked up in

tandem with folks like like newsguard

which is run by you know which has has a

board of Michael Hayden head of the CIA

NSA fourar General Rick stangle is on

that board uh you know from from the

state Department's propaganda office Tom

Ridge is on that board from the from the

Department of Homeland Security oh and

Anders fog rasm is on that board uh he

was the uh General Secretary of NATO

under the Obama administration so you

have NATO the CIA the NSA fourstar

General DHS and the state department

working with the EU to craft the

censorship laws that now are the largest

existential threat to X other than

potentially ex Advertiser boycotts

because there is now disinformation is

now banned as a matter of law in in in

the EU and the EU is a bigger market for

X than the US there's only 300 million

some people in the US there's 450

million in Europe X is now forced to

comply with this brand new law that just

got ratified this year uh where they

either need to Forfeit 6% of their

Global annual revenue to the EU to

maintain operations there or put in

place essentially the kind of you know

CIA bumper cars if you will that I I've

been describing over the course of this

in order to have a internal mechanism to

censor anything that the EU which is

just a proxy for NATO uh deems to be

disinformation and you can bet with 65

elections around the around the globe

this year um you can you can predict

every single time what they're going to

Define disinformation as so that's the

main the main fight right now is is

dealing with the transatlantic flank

attack from Europe I I've said this five

times but that's just one of the most

remarkable stories I've ever heard and

I'm grateful to you for bringing it to

us Mike Ben's executive director of the

foundation for freedom online and I hope

we see you

again thanks

Tucker free speech is bigger than any

one person or any one organization are

defined by what they will not permit

what we're watching is the total

inversion of

virtue