Growth Stage - Keynote #2 - Chat and Beyond: Five Steps to Building Digital Connections

Summary

In this insightful presentation, Mike Cha, Lead Product Manager at Sendbird, shares a longitudinal case study of strategic product choices over four years. Starting as a chat company, Sendbird expanded its portfolio by identifying key customers, exploring unexpected verticals, and leveraging generative AI to create a smart assistant. The company's mission to 'build connections in the digital world' led to the development of voice/video calls, support software, and notifications, emphasizing the importance of adapting to market needs and technological advancements.

Takeaways

• 😀 Mike Cha, the lead product manager at Sendbird, shared insights on product development choices over the last four years.
• 🌐 Sendbird is a B2B API company that provides various types of user-to-brand connections, with a global customer base.
• 📈 The company's mission is to 'build connections in the digital world', which has guided its evolution and product expansion.
• 🔍 Sendbird started with chat and found a key customer, Reddit, which helped scale the product and introduced the importance of moderation features.
• 📱 They expanded into unexpected verticals, such as social plus payments, where chat became an integral part of user interaction.
• 📞 Sendbird later introduced voice and video calls, recognizing that building connections also involved these communication methods.
• 💡 The company identified popular features within their chat product and decoupled them into standalone products, like Sendbird Desk for customer support.
• 📣 Another feature, announcements, was transformed into Sendbird Notifications, allowing businesses to send broadcast messages to users.
• 🤖 With the rise of generative AI, Sendbird created a smart assistant that integrates with various AI engines and can be deployed as a chatbot in apps.
• 🛠️ Sendbird's approach to product development emphasizes adapting to market needs, leveraging existing technology to create new products, and maintaining a scalable infrastructure.
• ❓ The script concludes with a Q&A, addressing the risk of expanding into new verticals and emphasizing the importance of calculated risks for growth.

Q & A

What is the primary focus of Sendbird as a company?

Sendbird is a B2B API company that focuses on providing various types of connections between users and brands through chat and other communication services.

What is the mission of Sendbird?

Sendbird's mission is to build connections in the digital world, which has evolved to include chat, voice, video, and other forms of digital communication.

How did Sendbird initially start and what was its primary product?

Sendbird initially started with Sendbird Chat, positioning itself as a chat company aiming to provide the best chat experience through an API and SDK.

Who is one of the key customers that helped Sendbird scale?

Reddit is one of the key customers that helped Sendbird scale by partnering with them to provide chat services for their community.

How did Sendbird's partnership with Reddit influence the product development?

The partnership with Reddit led Sendbird to develop moderation features to foster safe communities, highlighting the importance of operational aspects beyond superficial chat features.

What was the unexpected demand Sendbird discovered in growing their business?

Sendbird discovered an unexpected demand from verticals that traditionally did not require chat, such as social plus payments, where chat became an integral part of user interaction.

Can you provide an example of how Sendbird expanded into new product offerings?

Sendbird expanded into calls by developing a call SDK and APIs, allowing for one-on-one video calls, group chat calls, and other features, thus broadening their connection offerings.

What is Sendbird Desk and how does it differ from the original Sendbird Chat?

Sendbird Desk is a lightweight support software that provides excellent chat functionality and an agent interface for ticket management, analytics, and more, focusing specifically on customer support interactions.

What is the concept behind Sendbird Notifications?

Sendbird Notifications is a product that allows companies to send persistent, customized notifications to their users within their applications, enhancing user engagement and communication.

How does Sendbird's Smart Assistant leverage generative AI?

Sendbird's Smart Assistant integrates with various generative AI engines, allowing users to create chatbots with predefined or dynamic data ingestion, function calling, and a low-code implementation for quick deployment.

What advice does Mike Cha give for product managers looking to expand their product offerings?

Mike Cha advises product managers to find customers they can scale with, explore other verticals that may need their solution, relook at their mission for different technologies or mediums, identify if popular features can be standalone products, and adapt to technological changes in the world.

What is the potential risk associated with exploring other verticals for business expansion?

The potential risk is high as it involves venturing into markets that may not have been initially targeted, but it is a calculated risk that can lead to new opportunities if the solution is applicable to those markets.

How does Sendbird ensure that its chatbots stay within the realm of predefined knowledge?

Sendbird allows users to upload documents or enter URLs for the chatbot to ingest and learn from, ensuring that it stays within the predefined knowledge realm and does not answer outside of it.

Outlines

00:00

📢 Introduction to Sendbird and its Global Customer Base

Mike Cha, a lead product manager at Sendbird, introduces the company as a B2B API provider that offers various user-to-brand connection services beyond just chat. He highlights Sendbird's worldwide customer base, including notable names like Reddit, PayPal, and others, emphasizing the company's large user base of over 300 million monthly chat users. Mike sets the stage for a discussion on Sendbird's product decisions and growth over the past four years, aiming to provide insights for product managers at various company stages.

05:00

🚀 Scaling Through Key Customer Partnerships and Product Evolution

The summary explains Sendbird's initial focus on chat and how partnering with Reddit, a major online community platform, helped Sendbird scale by developing moderation features crucial for safe community building. It discusses Sendbird's approach to growth, emphasizing the importance of finding customers that can scale with the company and adapting the product roadmap to meet their needs, which in turn shaped the company's evolution.

10:01

🔍 Expanding Beyond Target Markets to Unconventional Verticals

This section delves into Sendbird's strategic pivot to explore demand in unexpected industry verticals, such as social plus payments, where chat became an integral part of user interaction. The company did not limit itself to its initial target market but expanded its mission to build connections in the digital world, leading to the development of voice and video call features. The summary illustrates Sendbird's willingness to innovate and adapt to market demands beyond traditional expectations.

15:01

🛠 Transforming Popular Features into Independent Products

The summary describes how Sendbird identified and decoupled popular features within their chat service, such as support interactions, and turned them into standalone products. This strategy led to the creation of Sendbird Desk, a lightweight support software, and Sendbird Chat Announcements, enhancing the company's product portfolio and catering to specific customer needs more effectively.

20:02

📬 Evolving from Chat to Comprehensive Notification Solutions

This part of the script discusses Sendbird's expansion into the notifications space with Sendbird Notifications, a product that allows for persistent, customizable in-app notifications. The summary outlines the product's capabilities, such as sending promotional, operational, or transactional messages directly within an application, and its low-code implementation, which enables quick deployment.

25:06

🤖 Embracing Generative AI with the Smart Assistant Integration

The final paragraph's summary focuses on Sendbird's entry into the generative AI space with the Smart Assistant, which allows for easy integration of various AI engines into chatbots. It details the product's features, such as document ingestion, function calling, and low-code deployment options, emphasizing Sendbird's commitment to staying at the forefront of technological innovation.

💡 Final Thoughts on Strategic Risks and Innovation

In the concluding section, Mike reflects on the strategic risks involved in exploring new verticals and the importance of calculated risks for business growth. He also addresses a question about the risks of expanding into unconventional markets, advocating for the exploration of new areas based on the company's capabilities and market needs.

Keywords

💡Lead Product Manager

A Lead Product Manager is a professional responsible for overseeing the development and lifecycle of a product. In the video, Mike Cha, the speaker, holds this position at Sendbird, guiding the product's strategy and direction. This role is central to understanding the company's approach to product development and customer engagement.

💡B2B API Company

B2B stands for 'business-to-business,' and an API, or Application Programming Interface, is a set of protocols and tools for building software applications. Sendbird is described as a B2B API company, which means they provide services and products to other businesses, focusing on the integration of communication features like chat and calls into their clients' applications.

💡Chat SDK

SDK stands for 'Software Development Kit.' A Chat SDK is a set of tools and libraries that developers can use to integrate chat functionality into their applications. In the script, Sendbird's Chat SDK is mentioned as a key product that allows clients to add chat features easily, highlighting the company's focus on providing communication tools for businesses.

💡Moderation

Moderation in the context of the video refers to the management and control of user-generated content to ensure it meets community guidelines and safety standards. Sendbird developed moderation features in response to Reddit's need for fostering a safe community, showing how the company adapts its product to meet specific customer requirements.

💡Scaling

Scaling in a business context refers to the process of expanding a company, its products, or services to reach a larger market or user base. The video discusses how Sendbird scaled by partnering with key customers like Reddit, emphasizing the importance of finding customers who are willing to grow with the company.

💡Product Portfolio

A product portfolio refers to the collection of products that a company offers to the market. Sendbird expanded its portfolio by developing new products like Sendbird Calls and Sendbird Desk, based on the evolving needs of their customers and the market, demonstrating strategic growth and diversification.

💡Smart Assistant

A Smart Assistant, as discussed in the video, is an AI-powered chatbot integrated with generative AI technology. Sendbird's Smart Assistant allows businesses to create chatbots with predefined or learned responses, showcasing the company's innovation in leveraging AI to enhance customer interaction.

💡Notifications SDK

An SDK for notifications would provide the tools necessary for developers to implement a system for sending alerts or messages to users within an application. Sendbird's Notifications SDK enables persistent and customizable in-app notifications, which is a way for businesses to engage with their users more effectively.

💡Low-code Implementation

Low-code implementation refers to software development approaches that allow for application development with minimal hand-coding. Sendbird offers low-code SDKs and widgets that facilitate the quick deployment of features like chatbots and notifications, emphasizing ease of use and speed of integration.

💡Mission Statement

A mission statement is a declaration of a company's core purpose and focus. Sendbird's mission to 'build connections in the digital world' is central to the video's narrative, illustrating how the company's evolution has remained true to its founding mission while expanding into new areas like voice, video, and AI chatbots.

💡Product Decoupling

Product decoupling involves separating features or components of a product to create standalone offerings. Sendbird decoupled popular features like support interactions and announcements into distinct products like Sendbird Desk and Sendbird Notifications, demonstrating an innovative approach to product development based on customer usage and demand.

Highlights

Mike Cha, Lead Product Manager at Sendbird, discusses the company's evolution over the last four years.

Sendbird's mission is to build connections in the digital world, which has guided their product development.

Sendbird started as a chat company, providing an API and SDK for businesses to integrate chat features.

Partnering with Reddit helped Sendbird understand the importance of moderation for fostering safe communities.

Sendbird expanded into unexpected verticals, such as social plus payments, to meet market demands.

The company developed a call SDK to provide voice and video connections, expanding beyond just chat.

Hinge, a social dating service, utilized Sendbird's voice and video features to build trust among users.

Sendbird identified popular features within their chat product and turned them into standalone products.

Sendbird Desk was created to cater to the needs of support agents and users within chat interactions.

Announcements feature allowed businesses to communicate directly with their users within the app.

Sendbird Notifications was developed to provide persistent and customizable in-app notifications.

Sendbird's approach to innovation includes looking beyond the initial target market for potential use cases.

The company's strategy involves reevaluating their mission and identifying new technologies to apply to it.

Sendbird's Smart Assistant leverages generative AI to provide chatbots integrated with various AI engines.

The Smart Assistant allows for easy deployment of chatbots with data ingestion and function calling capabilities.

Sendbird emphasizes the importance of adapting to technological changes and exploring new applications for existing products.

Mike Cha addresses the risk of expanding into new verticals and the calculated approach Sendbird takes to mitigate it.

The presentation concludes with a Q&A session where Mike discusses the company's strategy for growth and innovation.

Transcripts

[Music]

good afternoon everybody my name is Mike

cha and I am a lead product manager at

senir uh if you haven't noticed we have

a booth out there and um you know I'd

like to talk to you today

about something that is not a specific

domain but something that is a

longitudinal case study of the choices

that we made in terms of product in the

last four years and hopefully

depending on whichever stage of product

you're in that you're working at series

a series B

preed IPO already hopefully this will be

very helpful uh for your product

decisions that you will need to make

today and tomorrow and and you many

years to

come uh before that uh a lot of people

ask what is Sunbird uh well first of all

we are a B2B API company and we provide

not just chat but lots of different

types of connections between users and

Brands as well and we have customers all

over the world Indonesia we have red

doors travaloka ruang Guru and many more

we have other key customers in in the US

like PayPal we have Maya in the

Philippines we have Koopa in Korea we

have different customers that have

different use cases for how they want to

connect their

users and uh yeah currently we have 300

million plus monthly chat users

surprising because we're B2B you can't

see our logo in an application but we do

power many of the powerful Services out

there

and yeah so I want to start with the

mission of sber which is that we want to

build Connections in the digital world

now this sounds really generic right I

mean we have to come up with a mission

anyway if we're going to start a company

or if we're going to continue with the

company but I'm going to come back to

this Mission because we've evolved in

ways that we did not expect four or five

years ago where we are but we're still

sticking to this

Mission and out of the five steps I'm

going to tell you the the first step

that we took and of course these steps

can be different for you but I hope this

is a good case study for you and first

is to find customers that will help you

scale now when we first started out we

started out with sbird chat and we

claimed ourselves to be just a chat

company we want to provide the best chat

out there right just like your WhatsApp

experience you know has the other person

read your chat right is there a delivery

receipt um you know is is the person on

the other side typing typing indicators

we thought of all of these new cool

features and we added it we packaged

into an AP pi and an SDK and we said

great now let's sell it let's get some

customers and of course we got some

customers but it was really when we

found a key customer that was willing to

scale with us and that's the point that

I wanted to share here in the first

point and as an example we have Reddit

who is s bir's customer and Reddit uh as

many of you may know is one of the

biggest Community um websites out there

in the United States and and also in the

other Western countries and of course

they had communities and they had forums

but they didn't have a way for users to

chat and that's when we came in and we

partnered with Reddit and so we thought

hey we have a road map we have all of

these features that we know are great

because we talk to customers we talk to

users you know we have all these

features but here's what Reddit said

they said hey it's really important for

for us to foster a very very safe

Community now what are some things that

you have that can foster safe

communities and that's when we said oh

you know maybe we don't have something

like that and that's how we were able to

develop

moderation so any chat between any users

you can moderate through sbird by

declaring you know certain um you know

profanities you know um you know spam

domains uh image moderation and things

like that and you know Reddit really

helped us understand that chat isn't

just about the the you know superficial

out uh features out there there's a lot

of operational areas that need to uh you

know uh be worked on and so Reddit

really helped us grow and scale into the

company that is able to you know scale

millions and billions of messages per

month so great we

scaled we found Reddit

what should we do next that was one of

the big product you know concerns that

we had should we find 10 other amazing

communities out there in India and in

Korea and in Japan and get those folks

on board with us

maybe but we actually found another

solution which is that we found demand

from unexpected

verticals so during this time that we

were growing as as a series a company

there was this whole phenomenon called

social plus that started taking

over

traditional verticals that didn't really

need chat at the time started deciding

that hey chat is going to be a really

important part of our interaction with

our

users so social example plus payment

right I just need to send money to

somebody through my bank app why would I

need to talk to somebody right that was

that was the the status quo before

social plus but what

happened now we have payment apps where

you can chat with

people and an example of that is PTM in

India uh who is also our customer and

paytm decided we don't want to just

allow our users to send money sending

money and the experience of

exchanging money is is actually a social

thing right hey we had fun last night

here's my you know

$5 for for the pizza that you paid for

me thanks a lot you know these kind of

interactions became a key part of

conventional industries that didn't

require

Chad and

so when we're building product a lot of

times you know we focus on on our target

market or our Target Persona and we're

like what else can we provide for this

target Persona what else can we provide

for the ideal customer profile that we

have but what we realized was look

around the other verticals maybe we

started out as edtech maybe we started

out as you know um you know catering

towards you know small to medium

businesses or you know maybe we started

out catering to Mom and Pop shops but

other verticals may need your solution

that you're not expecting and that's

what we've experienced so then the next

question is this all right great let's

just list up all the verticals out there

and see what works let's pitch it out

there but that was actually not the

answer that we

found what we found was that we needed

to find new ways to expand upon our

mission as I mentioned our mission is to

build Connections in the digital world

and they were like well we provide chat

is that the only connection that we can

provide is that the only thing there

must be other

connections and then we

realized oh well people talk on voice

you know on the phone all the time

people are on FaceTime people are using

voice and video and that's when we

decided we already have the product sber

Chad but we decided we're going to

expand our product

portfolio by expanding into calls and

that's when we developed our call SDK

and our set of apis you know you can do

one inone video calls group chat calls

you know you can save the file on the

cloud or you know all the things that

you're doing on Google meet or Zoom you

know we provide um and so that's what we

decided you know like we were doing well

with the product we were doing well with

chat but we were like the market is

actually bigger for when we think about

it as building connections rather than

providing chat

and a great example of a customer that

we work with still today is a customer

called hinge Hing is a social dating

service in the United States they were

acquired by the match Group which owns

Tinder and hinge was already a sber chat

customer so when a person and a person

in social dating match you can start

chatting with each other right that was

already there and we were already

providing that value for this customer

but once we said hey we think that

building connections through voice and

video is also going to be really

interesting they said you know

what that is actually really interesting

because many of our users don't trust

who's on the other side right it could

it could be someone else that's

completely different from the

profile we are so interested in adding

voice and video so that users can

confirm and be feel safe in our service

so so we've been able to provide

additional trust and value to our

customer through building additional

connections between

users and

so you know we've been able to uh

provide additional value to our

customers great that's two products

already right two products three four

product managers you know let's let's

scale the crap out of it and you know

let's let's go IPO you know that that

could be could have been a decision that

we could have

made but as we started to continue to

develop additional features you know

getting additional customers based on

the experience that we've so far had we

realized

oh we have a bunch of small features in

our existing products that are really

really popular what do we do with

them and the obvious thought is well

let's sell that feature to more

customers or hey let's develop this

feature into much more fine grained much

better ux uh uh user

experience but we we then thought you

know what we're product people I think

we can do something else and what we did

was to decouple the features that were

very popular the use cases that were

very popular and we turned them into

products themselves and then that opened

up a whole new uh flood of uh Market

that you know we hadn't expected as well

I'll give you two examples around 15% of

our chat customers at one point were

using us in a specific use case which is

an interaction between a support agent

and a user so for example if you're

using traveloka and you know you have uh

support need and you talk to a an agent

right that that would be a a support

experience 15% of our customers were

using chat for that but what they were

saying was hey

it's great your chat is awesome but you

know we have our own support software we

have our own tools that we connect to it

and you know there's no way that we can

uh you know easily use sber chat while

using other wonderful support software

like Salesforce service Cloud zenes

Etc so that's where sber desk comes in

we decided oh yeah you know we can uh

sort of maybe provide one or two uh you

know uh connections to these existing

software but that's not what we did we

said all right you know what we're going

to test the market by building a

lightweight and cheap support software

that provides excellent chat right we

won't do email we won't do the other

things that that um other um you know uh

competitors are doing we'll just do

chat let's see what happens let's see

what happens to the market and that's

how we built sber desk which is

essentially sber chat which we provide

and then a agan interface where the

agent can you know take care of tickets

escalate them you know supervisor can

see them analytics all of

that and so we've had success with sber

desk as well one of those examples is

Virgin Mobile in the UAE they were

looking for a

lightweight solution that only uses

chat this was you know we had a hunch

about this Market but you know like if

you talk to many customers they'll be

like oh do you support email do you

support Omni Channel there's all these

questions but we decided let's turn this

into a product they product

people and so Virgin Mobile was able to

increase their customer satisfaction of

course they were able to get consistent

customer satisfaction but more

importantly it took them two weeks to

build because while we were exploring

sver Chad and how to provide it to

customers we figured out a way for them

to to deploy it in hours or in days if

you know if you don't want to do it in

hours and so it just took them two weeks

to build this and their agents are all

on board with cber

desk another example that I want to

share with you is a feature called

announcements

so we had customers saying hey we love

that users can talk to each other but we

sometimes want to talk to our users too

and since our users are already using

our

app like can we send a message to our

users like like like you know like on a

WhatsApp you have many channels right

you have you know a Channel with friends

you have Channel with uh you know family

with you know people that you work with

like can we send a message in those

channels and that's how we developed a

feature called sendbird chat

announcements simple

just you know type what you want to send

to um what you want to send and then

designate which channels that your users

own own and then send and then it sends

a message from the company to to the

user and this became a a you know a

popular

feature and so then we said said you

know what can we turn this into a

product and that's how we have a product

now called sendbird

notifications so sendur notifications

actually essentially what we did was we

took the sber chat code we for it and

instead of a a list of channels and you

know a chat interface we turned it into

a category of notifications you can

designate inside your

application and also we then turned what

you know our text messages or you know

the the the chat messages into uh you

know these Dynamic uh formats which you

can design and and plan and send to your

users so now we have a send Bur

notifications SDK that you can embed for

persistent

notifications to your users so it could

be anything from promotional messages

right marketing messages it could be

operational messages it could be system

maintenance messages it could even be

transactional messages that you want to

send to your users all of those can live

inside a persistent notification center

inside your

application and

so well well we already send emails to

our users right we're already sending

sms to your users well emails

are you know they have very low open

rates SMS can get

expensive well what about WhatsApp what

about line we can use those vendors and

and you know send messages to our users

true but then you know you can't

completely brand it based on you know

how you want your notifications to look

and you know where it lives and so we

are we now provide a way to to customize

engaging notifications right in the

sendur

dashboard makes we make it really easy

and also this is what we're really good

at which is that a very low code

implementation which allows you to build

this notification center inside your

application in just hours if you want to

do additional customizations maybe a bit

more than a few hours but but in just

hours

really so then you might be thinking

whoa well that sounds like marketing

automation

that sounds like what clevertap is doing

sounds like what bra is doing what are

you guys doing infiltrating this space

well we don't want to infiltrate the

space so we've partnered up with clever

Tab and we've partnered up with brace so

that your marketers can continue to use

brace continue to use clevert to plan

campaigns send push

notifications but then what happens to

those push notifications

right we are the next part where you can

keep those push push notifications in an

aligned notification center and you can

set it to disappear a day later 6 hours

later or you can leave it to be

persistent based on your use

case so all of this to say that it was

just a tiny feature in our chat product

which we've now transformed into a whole

new

product so okay uh that's a lot of

products you know uh right before that

uh use case so Porter is a company in

India that does incity Logistics and

Porter uses sver notifications to

communicate between the company and

their drivers so yeah the next and the

last step well that sounds like a whole

lot of products it sounds like you need

to hire a bunch of product managers you

know is that really uh I mean based on

the presentation so far are you going to

add another whole new product well you

know we also think that that's a lot of

products and you know we want to keep it

to a mainten maintain aable level but

the world doesn't stop when we stop

right Innovation continues to happen

externally and what happened in the last

year is that generative AI gen AI has

you know completely taken over the

interest of the tech

world and we're like this one we can't

pass we got to do something about this

what can we do we're a chat company gen

especially Tech based gen

needs someone to chat with a

chatbot well we already have

infrastructure to to chat so what we

decided to do was to create something

called the smart

assistant now it's not just a chatbot

that you can

deploy it's B

basically we will do the integration for

you with whatever

gen engine that you want to use you want

to use open AI sure we have it

integrated do you want to use Bard sure

we have it integrated do you want to use

something else do you want to have your

own private llm we can work with that

right so we provide in the sber

dashboard a super easy way basically a

no code way for you to create a bot

choose the engine that you want and then

have it be deployed as a chatbot in your

application because we already have that

part figured out

right not only that we offer data

ingestion maybe you have a a list of

policies for support uh you know for

customer support that you want the

chatbot to only answer those you don't

want it to like answer random questions

right well in our sber dashboard you can

now upload documents long PDFs you know

Long Word documents which the bot will

ingest and say ah okay you know I'll

stay within this realm and not say any

answers

outside if you don't have a document

enter your url

we'll scrape it and it'll learn and

it'll answer questions within that

realm we have functions right what if we

want our chatbot to you know uh talk

about yesterday's order or today's

weather right Dynamic data so we have

something called function calling that

um you know llms now provide which we've

again also integrated so now you can do

that on the senver dashboard click click

click really just a few

clicks and lastly a very low code

widget that we have on react but also we

have a very low code SDK that we provide

a UI kit on iOS Android react native

many other platforms so that you can

deploy your chatbot in

hours so I want to go back to s's

Mission which is to build Connections in

the digital world as you can see we

still haven't changed the mission it's

just that we didn't know 4 years ago

that connections meant chat voice and

video sver desk sver notifications and

smart assistant we didn't know that we

had no idea but we stuck to it and we

were we were able to expand our

portfolio uh up till this much and so

right now we reach now you can use curn

to reach your customers and engage your

customers and and even Provide support

find customers that you can totally

scale with to grow your original MVP

idea look for other verticals that may

need that solution that very solution

that you use to scale other verticals

might need it look for those customers

look for those use cases and then relook

at what you've built your mission and

say hey how can we provide the same

value but through a different technology

or through some different

medium

four what are the features that we have

that are really

interesting are those actually products

are we minimizing the value of the the

most popular features that we

have and lastly take a look at look at

you know how the world is changing

around you and see how these

Technologies can be applied for

you uh that is it thank you very

much and uh I believe there are some

questions or maybe one question thank

you very much Mike CH and I would like

to read the question that has been

submitted to the slid let's show the

question please okay you mentioned to

look around the verticals when searching

for expanding business value doesn't

that seem high risk and not applicable

for most

companies um that's a great question

does that seem high risk it is high risk

but is a highly calculated risk if

your persona if your you know if the the

initial Market that you're targeting is

super humongous then yeah maybe you

don't have to do that but you know there

are always competitors out there if you

can do it other companies can do it as

well and unless you have a very very

significant unfair Advantage then I

think it is very much worth the high

calculated risk to look at other

verticals that may need your solution

that uh conventionally you wouldn't have

thought so it's more of you know the

hypothesis that we have and fixing that

hypothesis to expand it into you know

other areas rather than changing the

solution that you have you know we

didn't change the solution that we had

to to provide to other verticals it was

the same solution but we just applied it

to other markets and you know some of it

worked of course I I've only talked

about success success cases today

hopefully next time I'll tell you about

our failures and there's many of them uh

I think that'll be it thanks so

much

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n