Perspective: Dealing with the Mandate | 09 January, 2023

Summary

In the wake of violence in Brazil, where supporters of former President Jair Bolsonaro stormed key government buildings, this episode of 'Perspective' examines the incident's parallels with the U.S. Capitol invasion. Experts discuss the political polarization, security lapses, and the challenges President Lula da Silva faces in restoring order and addressing Brazil's economic and social divides. The conversation also touches on the global implications and the importance of respecting democratic mandates.

Takeaways

• 🗼 Brazil experienced a violent incident where supporters of former president Jair Bolsonaro invaded and defaced the country's key institutions, similar to the U.S. Capitol invasion in 2021.
• 🏛 The destruction included throwing furniture, flooding Congress, and ransacking ceremonial rooms, which raised questions about Brazil's security measures.
• 📣 President Lula has announced a Federal Security intervention in Brasilia until January 31st in response to the violence.
• 💬 Bolsonaro, who has been likened to 'Trump of the Tropics,' has refuted allegations against him, stating that while peaceful demonstrations are part of democracy, damaging public buildings is unacceptable.
• 🔍 The situation in Brazil is complex, with deep political polarization between Bolsonaro's supporters and those of President Lula.
• 📊 Brazil's recent elections were closely contested, with a very narrow margin of victory for Lula, contributing to the tension and unrest.
• 🌐 The discussion highlighted the global concern over the increasing polarization and the need for dialogue to address such divisions.
• 🛑 The incident in Brazil has raised concerns about the respect and defense of the people's mandate in democracies.
• 🌳 Economic interests, particularly regarding the Amazon rainforest, and corruption within the judiciary, police, and military, are suggested as deeper factors contributing to the violence.
• 🌐 The panelists emphasized the importance of good democratic practices, including accepting electoral outcomes and ensuring a smooth transition of power.
• 👥 Mature leadership and adherence to constitutional norms are identified as crucial for overcoming polarization and preventing future incidents.

Q & A

What incident were the panelists discussing in the context of Brazil?

The panelists were discussing the incident where supporters of Brazil's far-right former president, Jair Bolsonaro, invaded and defaced the country's Congress, presidential Palace, and Supreme Court, similar to the U.S. Capitol invasion in 2021.

How did President Lula respond to the violence in Brazil?

President Lula announced a Federal Security intervention in Brasilia until the 31st of January in response to the violence.

What is the term used to describe Bolsonaro's political alignment and its comparison to a former U.S. president?

Bolsonaro is referred to as a far-right leader and is often compared to former U.S. President Donald Trump, being dubbed the 'Trump of the Tropics'.

What is the significance of the term 'toolkits' mentioned by one of the panelists?

The term 'toolkits' refers to the methods and resources used by certain groups or regimes to instigate change or create conditions for their interests, including organizing violence or unrest.

What historical context was provided regarding Brazil's political landscape?

The historical context provided includes Brazil's past military governance from the 1960s to the 1980s, followed by a transition towards electoral politics after 1990, with recent developments showing increasing polarization between the far-right and far-left.

What economic factors were discussed as potential contributors to the unrest in Brazil?

The economic factors discussed include Brazil's poor economic performance with an average growth rate of 2.4% from 1990 to 2021, high inflation, and a bad economic situation that has led to public dissatisfaction.

What role did social media play in the Brazil incident according to the panelists?

Social media was identified as a platform that may have been used to organize and incite the violence, with the government taking steps to put a bar on certain social media handles in response.

What is the importance of respecting the 'people's mandate' in a democratic country?

Respecting the 'people's mandate' is crucial for a smooth transition of power and maintaining the integrity of democratic institutions, ensuring that the will of the people is upheld and that political power changes hands peacefully.

How did the panelists suggest addressing the polarization in Brazil?

The panelists suggested that mature leadership, dialogue, understanding, and adherence to the Constitution and electoral mandates are necessary to address polarization. They also emphasized the need for security forces and the judiciary to act impartially.

What is the potential impact of the Brazil incident on international relations, particularly with countries like India?

The incident could affect Brazil's international standing and partnerships, with countries like India looking to engage with Brazil as a reliable partner. However, the incident may require a reassessment of relations until stability is restored.

What steps can Brazil take to prevent similar incidents in the future?

Steps suggested include a mature handling of the situation by President Lula, addressing the deep-rooted corruption within public institutions, ensuring security forces are prepared and impartial, and fostering an environment of dialogue and understanding to bridge the divide between political factions.

Outlines

00:00

😨 Brazil's Capitol Chaos: Far-Right Supporters' Violent Protest

Brazil witnessed a shocking incident where supporters of the far-right former president, Jair Bolsonaro, stormed the country's Congress, Presidential Palace, and Supreme Court, mirroring the U.S. Capitol invasion two years prior. The violence left a trail of destruction, with furniture thrown through windows, parts of the Congress flooded, and ceremonial rooms ransacked. President Lula has announced a Federal Security intervention in Brasilia until January 31st. Despite losing the election, Bolsonaro has refuted allegations against him, emphasizing that while peaceful demonstrations are democratic, damaging public buildings is unacceptable. The discussion panel, including Mr. Ruchita Berry and former Ambassador Yogesh Gupta, is introduced to analyze this incident and similar global occurrences, focusing on the importance of respecting the people's mandate in democracies.

05:03

🏛️ Security Breach and Political Polarization in Brazil

The script delves into the security lapse that allowed Bolsonaro's supporters to invade Brazil's capital, raising questions about the preparedness of the security forces. It highlights the lack of a historical precedent for such an event in Brazil and the recent political polarization between Bolsonaro's and Lula's supporters. Ambassador Gupta provides insights into Brazil's political history, noting the transition from military rule to electoral politics and the challenges of corruption allegations against both major parties. The discussion points to the close election results and Bolsonaro's reluctance to accept defeat as contributing factors to the unrest.

10:04

🌎 Global Phenomenon of Political Violence and Polarization

The conversation expands to consider the global rise of political violence, with incidents in the U.S., Maldives, and Brazil indicating a trend of polarization and unrest. The script suggests that external forces may be using 'toolkits' to instigate regime change, a strategy observed over decades across various countries. The panelists discuss the deep-rooted issues within Brazil, including corruption within the judiciary, police, and military, and the economic interests tied to the Amazon rainforest, which have contributed to societal divisions and the recent violence.

15:06

📉 Economic Struggles and the Challenge of Unity in Brazil

The script addresses Brazil's economic challenges, with low growth rates despite the country's vast resources, indicating poor management and governance. It suggests that economic difficulties have fueled public discontent, contributing to the political divisions and the violent incident. President Lula's past achievements in poverty reduction and economic growth are contrasted with the corruption scandals that have marred his reputation and the country's progress. The panel anticipates that Lula will face significant hurdles in uniting the divided nation and reviving its economy.

20:08

🤝 The Importance of Respecting the People's Mandate in Democracy

The discussion emphasizes the critical role of respecting the people's mandate in a democratic system, with the script highlighting the challenges faced when those in power are unable to accept defeat. It points to the increasing polarization not only in Brazil but globally and calls for dialogue and understanding to bridge the divide. The panelists express concern over the economic factors driving discontent and the need for political leaders to address these underlying issues to prevent further unrest.

25:11

🛑 Addressing Violence and Ensuring Democratic Stability

The script concludes with a focus on the need to address the organized nature of the violence in Brazil and the importance of mature leadership in accepting electoral outcomes. It suggests that dialogue alone may not be sufficient to heal societal divisions and that a commitment to constitutional principles is essential. The panelists warn of the dangers of external forces and 'toolkit brigades' that could destabilize societies, emphasizing the need for vigilance and strong democratic institutions. The future of Brazil depends on how President Lula handles the current crisis, with expectations that he will take a responsible and inclusive approach to governance.

🤔 The Future of Brazil and Its International Relations

The final paragraph of the script looks ahead to the future, considering how Brazil will navigate the aftermath of the violent incident and the ongoing political struggle between Bolsonaro and Lula. It suggests that Lula's approach to dealing with political opponents and the security forces will be crucial in determining the country's path forward. The panelists express confidence in Lula's ability to lead and the importance of Brazil's international relations, particularly with India, as the country seeks to engage with global partners and address its domestic challenges.

Keywords

💡Perspective

The term 'Perspective' in the context of the video refers to the show's aim to provide a detailed analysis of key national and international issues from a particular viewpoint. It is the lens through which the show examines events, such as the violence in Brazil, offering insights and interpretations that help the audience understand the complexities involved.

💡Violence in Brazil

This keyword encapsulates the central event discussed in the video, where supporters of Brazil's former president invaded and defaced the country's key institutions. It is directly related to the theme of the video, illustrating the political unrest and the consequences of disputed election results, as seen in the script's detailed recount of the incident.

💡Far-right

The term 'Far-right' is used to describe the political ideology of the individuals who supported the former president, Jair Bolsonaro. It is a key concept in understanding the motivations behind the violence, as it suggests a radical and often extremist political stance that can lead to confrontational actions, as evidenced by the script's description of the incident.

💡Invasion of Institutions

'Invasion of Institutions' refers to the act of forcefully entering and disrupting the normal functioning of government buildings, such as the Congress, presidential Palace, and Supreme Court. This keyword is pivotal to the video's narrative, as it highlights the severity of the situation in Brazil and the disregard for democratic processes.

💡Polarization

Polarization is a concept that describes the division within a society, often along political lines. In the video, it is used to explain the deep-rooted divisions in Brazilian politics between supporters of Bolsonaro and Lula da Silva, which contributed to the violent incident and is a significant aspect of the discussion on democratic stability.

💡Security Intervention

The term 'Security Intervention' refers to the measures taken by President Lula to restore order and security in Brasilia following the violence. It is a key response to the incident and is mentioned in the script as a means to prevent future occurrences, underscoring the importance of maintaining public safety in a democratic society.

💡Democratic Mandate

'Democratic Mandate' is a principle that emphasizes the importance of respecting the will of the people as expressed through elections. The video discusses the challenges of upholding this mandate in the face of political violence and disputed election results, as seen in the reactions to Bolsonaro's loss and the subsequent actions of his supporters.

💡Corruption Allegations

Corruption Allegations are claims of dishonest conduct, particularly within political spheres. In the script, they are mentioned in relation to both Bolsonaro and Lula, highlighting the erosion of trust in political institutions and contributing to the tense political climate in Brazil, which is a key factor in the video's analysis.

💡Economic Interests

Economic Interests pertain to the financial stakes and motivations that can influence political decisions and actions. The video script mentions the exploitation of the Amazon rainforest, suggesting that economic factors played a role in the political unrest and violence, as different factions had vested interests in the region's resources.

💡Smooth Transition of Power

A 'Smooth Transition of Power' is a hallmark of a stable democracy, where power changes hands peacefully after elections. The video discusses the challenges to this process in Brazil, with the refusal to accept election results and the ensuing violence, illustrating the importance of this concept in maintaining democratic order.

💡Global Phenomenon

The term 'Global Phenomenon' is used in the video to describe the occurrence of similar incidents of political violence and unrest across different countries, not just limited to Brazil or the United States. It points to a broader trend of political instability and the challenges faced by democracies worldwide, as exemplified by the script's references to various nations.

Highlights

Violence in Brazil: Supporters of former far-right president Jair Bolsonaro invaded and defaced the country's key institutions.

Comparison to U.S. Capitol invasion: Incident in Brazil draws parallels to the U.S. Capitol invasion by supporters of former President Donald Trump.

President Lula's response: Announced a Federal Security intervention in Brasilia until January 31st following the violence.

Bolsonaro's stance: The former president has refuted allegations against him and commented on the limits of peaceful demonstrations.

Polarization in Brazil: Expert discussion on the political polarization between Bolsonaro and President Lula's supporters.

Brazil's election and aftermath: Analysis of the recent elections, Bolsonaro's loss, and the non-acceptance of the election verdict by his supporters.

Security concerns: Questions raised about the role of security forces during the invasion of Brazil's capital.

Brazil's political history: Discussion of Brazil's transition from military governance to electoral politics and recent polarization.

Corruption allegations: Mention of corruption charges against both Lula's and Bolsonaro's parties contributing to public discontent.

Economic factors: The impact of Brazil's poor economic performance on the current political unrest.

Global incidents of political violence: Comparison of Brazil's situation with other nations experiencing similar unrest.

Toolkits and regime change: Analysis of the role of external forces and toolkits in inciting political violence.

Deep-rooted corruption: Discussion on corruption within Brazil's judiciary, police, and military as a factor in the violence.

Economic interests and the Amazon: Connection between economic interests in the Amazon rainforest and the political divide.

International condemnation: The global response to the violence in Brazil, including statements from world leaders.

Respect for democratic mandate: The importance of accepting electoral outcomes and the challenges faced in ensuring this.

Lula's political career: Overview of President Lula's history, his past presidency, and the challenges of his current term.

Brazil's foreign policy: Discussion of Lula's intentions for Brazil's foreign policy, focusing on multilateralism and regional integration.

The way forward for Brazil: Expert opinions on how Brazil can address the current crisis and the role of its institutions.

Transcripts

[Music]

foreign

[Music]

you're watching our show perspective

where we bring you detailed analysis of

key National and international issues

today we're going to talk about the

incident of violence in Brazil last week

now supporters of Brazil's a far-right

former president zair bolsonaro invaded

and defaced the country's Congress

presidential Palace and supreme court on

Sunday in a similar manner as U.S

capital in region two years ago by

supporters of former U.S president

Donald Trump writers in Brazil left a

trail of Destruction throwing Furniture

through the smashed Windows of the

presidential Palace flooding parts of

the Congress as well with a sprinkler

system and ransacking ceremonial rooms

in the Supreme Court now bolsonaro had

lost the presidential election to lulata

Silva in October last year following

Sunday's violence president Lula has

announced a Federal Security

intervention in Brasilia till 31st of

January now the former president who has

rarely spoken in public since losing the

election refuted all the allegations

against him and said peaceful

demonstrations are part of democracy but

invading and damaging public buildings

crosses the line so today we're going to

talk about this incident which has

happened in Brazil and also similar

incidents which has been witnessed which

have been witnessed across the globe in

various other nations in the past few

years the rational behind them

reasonings behind them and how the

Mandate people's mandate needs to be

respected and defended as well and for

more on this we joined by a

distinguished panel of experts let me

first introduce them to you bringing

with Mr ruchita Berry is joining us here

in the studio she's a senior research

associate with the idsa welcome Miss

Mary we're also joined by former

Ambassador yogesh Gupta and

who's director of India Foundation

welcome both of you gentlemen as well uh

to Sunset television I'll start with you

ruchita let's first start by

understanding what's happening in Brazil

uh you know was this something which is

which was anticipated because of the

kind of uh you know pull and push which

was happening between the supporters of

the former president and uh the current

uh you know president Lula de Silva and

also the kind of statements we did come

in from uh the former president

bolsonaro

well uh thank you for inviting me first

of all

see this is a very complex situation in

Brazil at the moment and you're very

right when you say that there there can

be parallels drawn between what happened

in Brazil on Sunday when the both

president former president bolsonaro

supported raided the Congress the

Supreme Court and the presidential

Palace they destroyed the furniture you

know basically trashed a lot of the

entire place

this was similar to what happened in U.S

two years back when President Trump's

supporters

you know uh went into the capital land

did all kinds of things over there so

first of all let me say that bolsonaro

was seen he used to mirror himself as uh

he used to see himself as a mirror of

president Trump you know so he was also

known as the Trump of the tropics so a

lot of things that were happening in

Brazil you found that they were also uh

happening in in U.S or or the vice versa

so so I'm not surprised with with this

kind of event taking place in in Brazil

that is one you know the comparison

between Trump and bolsonaro okay

secondly the Brazilian the Brazil as a

whole has gone through

elections recently and Lula has emerged

as the winner and right from the

beginning the moment the elections in

October took place bolsonaro and his

supporters have been very much against

the the election verdict not accepting

the election verdict as as it was so

there there were murmurs about uh you

know the that there was a lot of

contestation happening about not

accepting the the election verdict so so

that resulted in in this kind of an

episode so there is some kind of

polarization in the the Brazilian

politics uh today between the supporters

of boltonaro and those of of Lula uh but

this also created a security situation

how can a country's capital be invaded

in such a way with the supporters of a

particular party creating such a big

security issue within within the country

so what were the security forces doing

there by why wasn't this thought of

earlier now president Lula is taking

steps to avoid that happening in future

but uh but that really leaves us with a

lot of questions about Security in the

country as such because

Brazil does not have this kind of

history of okay okay that that that's

that's an important point and that that

brings me to Ambassador Gupta here Mr

Gupta you know you you spent time in

Brazil uh what we would like to

understand as as uh Miss Berry is

pointing out uh in terms of uh how how

does it happen in in Brazil you know in

terms of the transition of power is this

is this something the kind of incident

which we have witnessed or the kind of

you know uh uh the polarization uh

between the far right and the far left

is is sort of a recent phenomena or over

the years uh how is Brazilian uh you

know political democracy developed

earlier Brazil was sort of governed by

the military from the 1960s 17s 18s and

then after 1990 we had this progress

towards the Electoral politics

and then we had these uh uh you know two

three main parties and there was hope

that the political situation would

stabilize

but what we have seen in recent years is

that both the Workers Party of President

tula and the other one which was

headed by uh president uh bolsonaro

they were sort of contesting uh all

different uh issues and

unfortunately there were corruption

charges against both so both got very

unpopular while uh Lula's party did a

lot of good work at the beginning of

2000 a lot of poor people were taken out

of poverty and there was gold economic

growth and so on but ultimately he also

became embroiled in corruption and so

was his successor

and similarly uh there have been

allegations of corruption against

bolsonaro also there are a lot of people

who are divided some favor the one or

the some favorite the other so we have a

very polarized try to failure today it

is the former panelist said at the

election results also were very close in

the first round the difference was only

a five percent and in the second round

the runoff round which was less than one

percent

so it was a very close election and the

uh president bolsonaro kind of never

accepted it accepted the results okay

and very grudgingly kind of uh he left

Brazil and

his supporters of course taking cue from

what happened in the United States have

indulged in this kind of behavior which

of course he has condemned and uh but uh

this sort of a thing has not happened

earlier but this is uh more indicative

of the increasing polarization okay okay

you know this this overall issue of

political uh you know uh disagreements

spilling over into the streets or you

know in or or the supporters of of one

group or the other you know uh taking

out their anger on on public

institutions as as was witnessed on

Sunday in Brazil two years ago in in

United States as well well and and not

not you know big countries like them but

we have had incidents in uh in Maldives

uh you know around around four years ago

five years ago the opposition was making

a global call uh uh for a smooth

transition of power in their country

these incidents why do you believe these

are becoming more common in in the past

few years or so

uh thank you Vishal

Michelle I've got a slightly different

take as to why these incidences take

place

one I believe that for a very long time

there are certain paths which believe in

regime change

and uh because they believe in regime

change as we have seen what has happened

in West Asia and in many other places

including in Ukraine which started from

2004 in the color Revolution

uh because they want a regime which is

favorable to their interests so they

create conditions and one of the one of

the means by which they create

conditions is by having toolkits uh and

they and they create that balance so

this is a phenomenon which we have seen

over the last 25 30 40 odd years uh

which is occurring across the world and

the large number of countries uh regimes

have been caged

but coming down to the present situation

as far as

um

um

the particular incident that we are

talking about now in Brazil now I think

Brazil is slightly different because

Brazil has got a certain different set

of interests in Brazil yes uh very very

correctly stated by the Ambassador and

by um Miss Berry that the society is

divided they are polarized but that by

itself would not have led to the

violence I think there are deeper

factors there is deep corruption within

the uh within the Judiciary itself

within the police forces and within the

military and there are huge economic

interests attached as far as the Amazon

rainforest is concerned which was being

exploited to by the present by the

former president and which was opposed

by uh the present president uh present

roulette silver now when these factors

come into when these factors come into

play and economics comes into play then

also we find time people taking sides

and resorting to violence so I I don't

think I personally would not really

relate it to occurring because something

like this occurred in the United States

two years ago but it is a sad State of

Affairs and the only positive to it is

that the world leaders have condemned it

we have seen the the prime minister of

India has condemned it the U.S president

has condemned it and now I uh even

president bosner the former president

he's also condemned the violence so I

think it perhaps this will settle down

the polarization will remain but I think

we need to set examples as to what good

democracy is and the fundamental of good

democracy is when you lose the election

let the other party take over okay get

your chance five years later Vishal okay

indeed smooth transition of power is a

very important pillar of uh democracy

anywhere it's very on on that that point

that note you know why do you think when

we're talking about this particular

event Brazil specifically the smooth

transition of power is not happening is

is one of the major reasons as general

katos was referring to is deep rooted

corruption within the public

institutions itself and then it has been

divided into two uh you know uh segments

into two camps uh one uh in favor of

former president uh bolsonaro and one in

favor of uh current president Lula de

Silva is that the main reason or is

there something else happening behind

the scenes

you must understand that in in case of

corruption in in Brazil it's a crossbow

both the parties have been involved in

um you know Corrupt Practices have been

accused of current practices Lula and

then his follow is the the former

president Dilma Rusev was also had to

leave office because of corruption

charges bolsonaro is also facing

corrupting charges so the the country is

going through a bad time the economy is

in a bad situation the current president

Lula though he is

from a leftist party leftist leaning he

is an institution himself you know if

you look at Lula's political career he's

been there since the 80s and he's he's I

think what contested most of the

elections in Brazil since then in 2018

he was arrested and people had the Lost

hope of him Reviving himself they

thought that he was done and you know

dead in in terms of his political career

but he has revived that and he's back as

the president of of Brazil but he is

leading a country which is in a very bad

State economically the economy the

economy is in a bad State the inflation

is growing the country is polarized

between the far right and and and the

left so uh so so Lula faces the task of

bringing all these things together he

also is known for his foreign policy in

past you know that he was he was a

president who favored

you know

talking to the people rather than the

isolationists that some some of his uh

you know so

so uh is he going to revive that he has

hinted that he is looking for

reintegration of uh the the integration

of the Latin American region he's

talking about in emphasis on

multilateralism Reviving ties with

countries in the developing world with

Africa in particular and uh with the

brics set of countries so he has a

expansionist agenda in his mind but he

has to remember that he has to take care

of his country first so so he cannot

move away from the the fact that the

country is in trouble there is a lot of

there are a lot of people who are

looking at him in terms of fixing what's

happening within the country before he

moves into

his Grand foreign policy indeed indeed

they'll have to uh tough task at hand

for the government they are in in Brazil

on those fronts right Miss Berry going

back to the the larger question and uh

Mr Gupta as uh you know all of you are

mentioning we rightly also like to

understand you know perhaps in a bit

more detail as to dealing with the

people's mandate that's that's something

which is which is really important and a

big aspect of any Democratic country

smooth transition of power now incidents

like this uh and the one happened in the

United States of America two years ago

and you know some other incidents which

have happened in various other countries

on a similar note

they do raise questions about why uh you

know those in power for a certain period

of time are not able to deal with the

people's mandate if it is against them

and two uh you know how can that be

assured or ensured in uh you know in in

those Nations or globally where uh

Democratic institutions are in place

well you know

um this is a phenomena that uh spares

across many countries and the problem is

that uh certain number of people you

know are not very happy with the kind of

uh leftist policy or the popular

politics uh that has been replaced

earlier

uh we have seen this in the United

States we have seen this in certain

parts of Europe uh and now we see here

till Brazil that uh

people who are not happy uh with the or

they feel marginalized then they resort

to this kind of uh violence this kind of

politics and uh what happened in the

United States two years earlier kind of

has become some sort of a example for

these right-wing uh

uh followers or right-wing protesters

and they think that this is normal The

New Normal and they indulge in this sort

of a violence to express uh their

protest Express via disagreements

unfortunately uh polarization is

increasing not only in Brazil but in

across many other countries and

it really needs or it really calls for

more of a dialogue more of understanding

but to the two extreme side of views

but these things unfortunately are

easier to say but they are not easier to

achieve and as far as Brazil is

concerned I think one of the economic

one of the underlying reasons is also

economic the Brazilian economy has done

very poorly if you look at the economy

from 1990 onwards till 2021 they just

achieved economic growth of 2.4 average

which is very low compared to the

resources that this country has

which also indicates that whether it was

the parties of the left or the right

they have really failed to achieve much

of economic growth because of poor

management and it bad governance and so

on so people are uh unhappy on both

sides uh so economic reason is also

another factor to understand that uh why

there is so much of protest

confrontation divisions in in Brazil

one can't say for sure that this is

going to heal up anytime soon this is a

global phenomena and unless the

political political class or sort of

decides to have some sort of dialogue

understanding

uh I'm afraid that uh these divisions

are they will continue to savor uh maybe

below the surface okay okay okay uh fair

enough uh looks like you know a lot of

work needs to be done there let's bring

in uh uh General chair as well spoke

about you know uh some of the uh reasons

or perhaps factors which might lead to

Sea situations but again uh when we're

trying to uh find out ways to uh ensure

that these incidents do not get repeated

that's one and two perhaps as uh Mr

Gupta was saying you know a bridge that

divide between the far right and the far

left how do we do that ensure that the

Democratic institutions are respected

the people's mandate is respected and

accepted as well

Vishal very frankly it is my it is my

opinion that the majority of people will

not really be interested in the violence

you see so this violence is created and

to create violence you require an

organization and you require huge

finances so you've got an organization

you've got finances and then you create

that balance and uh you will always find

uh enough susceptible people who will go

in for it we don't require millions of

people to get onto the streets you just

require a few thousand we saw what

happened to Delhi when a few thousand

people actually tried to bring down the

city uh trying to bring down the capital

in India during Republic Day so this has

inspired both internally and by external

forces both of them will be at play as

far as uh such incidences are concerned

and merely having a dialogue between uh

the polarized societies is not going to

work you require mature leaders on both

sides leaders who are prepared to accept

uh the Constitution the uh electoral

mandate now if they're not prepared to

accept the Electoral mandate you are

going to go down this path I think that

is one of the factors the second thing

is I am still very concerned about

things like what the word very

specifically are used is toolkits

because they present a danger even to

countries like India now fortunately we

have got we have got a very resilient

society and since Independence all

election mandates have been the bar

transfer has been or has been absolutely

peaceful regardless of political

differences and regardless of whichever

way it has gone uh even within the

states the power the power has changed

hands in a very mature manner but I'm

seeing increasing that there are people

who are trying to destabilize the

society even in India and we need to be

careful of those Trends the toolkit

Brigade which I call them they are they

will be harmful to society and they have

to be called out before they can

actually create damage okay in Brazil

what we saw was an organized attempt to

create violence it was not spontaneous

the spontaneity we know how spontaneous

occurs this will organized violence okay

and uh I think it is up to the uh up to

the security forces and the Judiciary

which themselves have been compromised

uh in favor of uh the former president

um I don't know how they're going to

sort out that problem but ultimately to

the administration also which they need

to sort out where the larger problem

lies and the larger problem is not

within the people of Brazil regardless

of the fact that they are going through

a bad inflationary period okay okay uh

we'll uh we'll bring this discussion to

end with the last question to Miss Miss

Berry here miss Mary you know uh what

happens now in Brazil wizard is this

incident invisible is the ongoing uh you

know tussle between the former president

and uh the uh you know present president

on the election results there is a legal

process as well involved here so where

does it move from here onwards we have

so I think it needs a really mature

handling of the situation by the current

president Lula as to how how does he

deal with it first in terms of his

political opponents uh with uh vis-a-vis

bolsonaro he has accused bolsonaro for

creating this that he said that he has

fled to Florida so the the the fact that

he should be back in Brazil is something

that he is going to move for that is one

secondly

within this the security forces there

has to be a rethink re-look as at the

situation how how are they going to

avoid certain these kind of act

happening again if they were really

contrived and uh as as some as general

katoch has talked about uh the idea is

that to look at the social media very

carefully the the first thing that the

government has done is to you know put a

bar on the social media handles and

things like that so

so it is a very tricky situation how the

country comes out to depends on how the

the presidency deals with it but I am

very confident of President Lula he is

been a very responsible president and

past and hopefully he will try to make

amends and come for a all government

kind of an approach talk to the other

parties he has already

taken some steps in talking to some of

the other party members maybe you know

so that could be one of the ways of

coming out of this particular this

particular thing and for countries like

India which are looking at the global

South in a big way I think we would like

to retain Brazil as an important partner

we look at president Lula as a reliable

partner from past and would like to

engage with the Brazil okay in the

coming Future Okay indeed and we'll have

a detailed discussion on India Brazil

relations and the future there as well

later on on the show as well thank you

so much Miss very uh and uh Mr Gupta as

well for sharing your views and insight

as our experts uh for pointing out uh

various aspects of the situation in

Brazil where supporters of former

president bolsonaro on Sunday rents act

the Constitutional institutions in the

country the Congress the Supreme Court

the presidential Palace as well the

situation as of now is reported as tense

but under control we'll keep a close

watch on all the developments there and

keep on bringing you all the details on

this as well as various other topics

till then keep watching Sunset

television thank you

foreign

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