Yuval Noah Harari on AI, Future Tech, Society & Global Finance

Summary

In a thought-provoking discussion, the potential of AI in the financial sector and its implications for society are explored. The conversation delves into the risks of AI's growing complexity, which could lead to a loss of human understanding and control, possibly resulting in a crisis of trust and a shift of power to algorithms. The role of institutions in regulating AI and maintaining human involvement is emphasized, along with the need for AI to be accountable and understandable. The dialogue also touches on AI's creative potential and the importance of using technology to build trust and address global challenges such as the climate crisis.

Takeaways

• 🧠 The discussion at the Summit revolves around AI's role in the financial sector and the challenges of managing risks associated with AI's growing complexity and influence.
• 🌐 The speaker suggests that as AI systems become more integral to financial operations, there's a risk of humans losing the ability to understand and thus control these systems, potentially leading to a crisis of trust and a shift of power to algorithms.
• 🤔 There's a concern that if AI makes finance too complex for humans to grasp, it could result in a political and social crisis, with power shifting from humans to AI, which could be unregulated and unsupervised.
• 💡 The financial system's primary product is trust; it enables transactions between strangers. AI's potential to understand and innovate in finance could either bolster or undermine this trust.
• 🔮 The speaker warns that AI could create financial instruments too complex for human understanding, leading to a dangerous reliance on AI during crises, which could exacerbate a loss of public trust in institutions.
• 🛑 The importance of maintaining human oversight and understanding of AI in finance is emphasized to prevent a scenario where AI's complexity leads to uncontrollable outcomes.
• 🌱 Historical examples of technological transitions, such as the Industrial Revolution, show that while humanity can adapt and benefit from new technologies, the transition periods can be fraught with failed experiments and societal upheaval.
• 🌟 AI's potential for creativity is highlighted, with examples like AlphaGo revolutionizing the game of Go, suggesting AI could bring about new forms of creativity in various fields, including finance.
• 🔑 The role of institutions in managing AI development is underscored as a means to ensure accountability and to harness AI's potential positively while avoiding dangerous misuse.
• 🌍 The potential of AI to help address global challenges like the climate crisis is noted, suggesting that AI could be a tool for developing more sustainable and eco-friendly technologies.
• 💡 The conversation concludes with an audience question about the relationship between AI and human creativity, to which the speaker responds that AI is already demonstrating a form of creativity that could lead to significant advancements in various domains.

Q & A

What is the main concern regarding AI's impact on the financial system as discussed in the summit?

The main concern is that AI could make the financial system so complicated that no human, not even those in central banks or governments, can understand it, potentially leading to a crisis of trust and control shifting from humans to algorithms.

What is the current level of understanding of the financial system among the general population according to the speaker?

The speaker suggests that perhaps only 1% of the population truly understands how the financial system works, indicating a significant gap in general understanding.

What role does trust play in the financial system?

Trust is the ultimate product of the financial system. It allows for the creation of mechanisms like money, bonds, and shares that facilitate transactions and cooperation among millions of people.

How does AI differ from previous financial tools in terms of understanding and creating financial devices?

AI is the first tool that can understand finance better than humans because it deals with data and information more efficiently. It can potentially invent new financial devices that humans cannot comprehend.

What are the political implications of a financial system that is too complicated for humans to understand?

The political implications include a potential shift of power from humans to non-human intelligence, which could be dangerous as it involves giving control of an important part of society and politics to entities that cannot be regulated or supervised by humans.

What historical examples were given to illustrate the potential dangers of AI in the financial industry?

The speaker mentioned the financial crisis of 2007-2008, which started with a failure to regulate new financial tools like CDOs, as an example of what could happen if AI creates new financial devices that are too complex for human understanding.

What is the speaker's view on the potential creativity of AI in the future?

The speaker believes that AI is already very creative and will continue to explore new areas in various fields, including finance, in ways that are currently unimaginable to humans.

How does the speaker suggest we should approach the regulation of AI in the financial sector?

The speaker suggests that regulation should focus on ensuring AI remains accountable and understandable, and that it should facilitate the creation of more trust among people, which is the ultimate goal of the financial system.

What is the potential positive role of AI in addressing the climate and energy crises?

AI can help develop more eco-friendly technologies and find better ways to tap and use energy from the universe, which could assist in solving the climate and energy crises without halting economic growth.

How does the speaker view the concept of nations in relation to AI and the future of global cooperation?

The speaker believes that nations are not something to be abolished but rather need to be made to cooperate more effectively. New imaginative creations, including in finance, should focus on building trust among people across nations.

What is the speaker's stance on the idea of AI creating new 'fictions' that could enhance human flourishing?

The speaker advises caution, stating that while AI can create new kinds of fictions, it is dangerous to trust AI without question. Human-created fictions like nations have both positive and negative aspects and should be used responsibly.

Outlines

00:00

🤖 AI's Role and Challenges in the Financial Sector

The speaker discusses the current state of AI in the financial industry and the challenges it poses, particularly regarding regulation and understanding. AI's potential to complicate the financial system to a point where no human can understand it is highlighted, along with the societal and political crises that may arise from such a scenario. The importance of maintaining human oversight and the role of trust in finance are emphasized, with the notion that AI could either enhance or destroy this trust.

05:02

🌐 The Importance of Human Understanding in a Tech-Dominated Future

This paragraph delves into the implications of AI outpacing human understanding, suggesting that the remaining percentage of the population that grasps the financial system could diminish to zero. The potential consequences of this shift, including the loss of human control and a transfer of power to algorithms, are explored. The necessity of maintaining trust in AI and the importance of human involvement in decision-making processes are underscored.

10:04

🏭 Lessons from History on Adapting to Technological Change

Drawing parallels with historical transitions like the Industrial Revolution, the speaker reflects on humanity's adaptability to new technologies. The paragraph discusses the potential dangers of the transition period as we learn to harness AI's power, comparing it to past failed experiments such as imperialism and communism. The unique capabilities of AI to make independent decisions and create new ideas are highlighted, emphasizing the urgency and complexity of mastering this technology.

15:05

🛡️ The Crucial Role of Institutions in AI Regulation

The speaker advocates for the importance of institutions in managing AI development, arguing that they provide the necessary framework to ensure AI remains accountable and understandable. The paragraph stresses the need for human involvement in AI decision-making processes and the maintenance of trust in financial systems, suggesting that institutions are our best defense against the potentially destructive capabilities of AI.

20:07

🎭 AI's Creative Potential and Its Impact on Human Ingenuity

Discussing AI's ability to be creative, the speaker contrasts the organic limitations of human imagination with AI's capacity to explore new territories in various fields, including Go and music. The rapid evolution of AI and its potential to develop into forms of intelligence beyond our current comprehension are highlighted, suggesting that AI may bring about a new kind of creativity that could surpass human capabilities.

25:08

🌳 AI's Potential in Addressing Climate and Energy Crises

The speaker posits that AI could be instrumental in tackling climate and energy challenges, suggesting that it may help develop more eco-friendly technologies. The paragraph addresses concerns about AI's energy consumption and its potential role in creating sustainable solutions, emphasizing that AI, when used correctly, can contribute positively to overcoming global crises.

30:09

📊 Balancing AI Development with Social and Ethical Considerations

This paragraph examines the ethical and social implications of AI, particularly in relation to issues of bias and the potential for AI to reinforce existing prejudices. The speaker discusses the challenges of controlling AI's output and the need for responsible development to ensure that AI serves the greater good, without exacerbating societal divisions.

35:10

🌐 The Future of Trust and Financial Systems in the Age of AI

The speaker contemplates the future of trust in financial systems, considering the role of AI in creating new forms of currency and financial instruments. The paragraph emphasizes the need for AI to contribute to building greater trust within society, rather than fostering distrust, and the importance of creating financial systems that are accessible and beneficial to all.

40:11

🌍 The End of Nations and the Potential of AI in Human Flourishing

In this final paragraph, the speaker addresses the philosophical and ethical questions surrounding AI's role in shaping human society and the concept of nations. The discussion touches on the potential for AI to create new 'fictions' that could enhance human flourishing and the moral obligations humans have in determining the direction of AI development, while also considering the enduring importance of nations and cooperation.

Keywords

💡AI

Artificial Intelligence (AI) refers to the simulation of human intelligence in machines that are programmed to think like humans and mimic their actions. In the video's context, AI is central to discussions about its role in the financial sector and its potential to create or destroy trust among people. The script mentions AI's ability to understand and potentially complicate the financial system beyond human comprehension, which raises concerns about regulation and accountability.

💡Financial System

The financial system encompasses the various mechanisms, institutions, and processes by which a country or region manages its money supply and financial transactions. The script discusses the complexity of the financial system and the risk that AI might make it too complicated for humans to understand, leading to a potential crisis of trust and control.

💡Regulation

Regulation in this context refers to the rules and oversight set by governing bodies to control and manage various sectors, such as finance. The video emphasizes the need for serious attempts to regulate AI within the financial system to prevent it from becoming incomprehensible and uncontrollable, which could lead to a shift of power from humans to algorithms.

💡Trust

Trust is a fundamental concept in the video, described as the ultimate product of the financial system. It is the confidence and reliance placed in the financial system by individuals, which allows for economic transactions and cooperation. The script warns that AI could either enhance or erode this trust, particularly if it becomes the primary mediator of financial activities.

💡Risk Management

Risk management is the process of identifying, assessing, and controlling risks to minimize their impact. In the script, it is mentioned in the context of planning how financial firms and central banks will deal with the risks stemming from AI, which could include the potential for AI to create financial instruments too complex for human oversight.

💡Central Banks

Central banks are the main monetary authority in a country or region, responsible for monetary policy and financial stability. The video script suggests that central banks may have a role in managing the integration of AI in a way that maintains transparency and accountability, thus preventing AI from becoming a black box that operates without human understanding.

💡Accountability

Accountability is the obligation to report on and be responsible for one's actions. The script highlights the importance of maintaining AI's accountability in the financial sector to ensure that there is a human entity that can be held responsible for AI's decisions and actions, which is crucial for maintaining public trust.

💡Political Implications

The term refers to the potential effects of AI on governmental structures and decision-making processes. The video script raises concerns that if AI becomes too complex and takes over financial decision-making, it could lead to a crisis where politicians and central bankers are unable to understand or manage the financial system, thus undermining the political system.

💡Social Crisis

A social crisis is a situation of severe difficulty or turbulence in societal affairs. The script suggests that the lack of human understanding of AI in finance could lead to a social crisis, as it might result in a loss of trust in institutions and a shift of power to uncontrollable algorithms.

💡Economic Growth

Economic growth refers to the increase in the production of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. The video script mentions that while AI has the potential to contribute positively to economic growth, it also poses risks if it leads to financial devices that are too complex for human regulation and understanding.

💡Sustainability

Sustainability in the context of the video refers to the ability to maintain processes or conditions in a way that avoids depletion of natural resources and environmental harm. The script touches on the concern that AI's energy consumption could impact the environment, but also notes the potential for AI to contribute to more sustainable energy solutions.

Highlights

AI's potential to complicate the financial system beyond human understanding, leading to a crisis of trust and control.

The importance of human understanding in the financial system to maintain trust and prevent a shift of power to AI.

AI as a tool that could surpass human understanding of finance, creating new financial devices and strategies.

The historical role of financial systems in creating trust between strangers through mechanisms like money and bonds.

The risk of AI-driven financial systems becoming too complex for human oversight, leading to potential crises.

The need for regulation and oversight to ensure AI remains accountable and understandable in finance.

AI's potential to create and understand financial instruments better than humans due to its data-driven nature.

The historical comparison of AI's impact to the Industrial Revolution, with the potential for both positive and negative outcomes.

The potential for AI to exacerbate existing crises of trust in experts and political systems.

The importance of human institutions in managing the development and use of AI to prevent unchecked growth and potential misuse.

AI's potential creativity in areas like music and financial devices, exploring new landscapes beyond human imagination.

The rapid evolution of AI and its potential to develop capabilities far beyond our current understanding within a short time frame.

The role of central banks in potentially leading international cooperation for responsible AI use in finance.

The challenge of energy consumption and sustainability in the development and use of AI technologies.

AI's potential to help address the climate and energy crises by optimizing resource use and creating eco-friendly technologies.

The ethical considerations of AI creating new 'fictions' or societal constructs that could impact human flourishing.

The importance of maintaining human involvement in the loop to ensure AI aligns with human values and goals.

The potential for AI to revolutionize financial systems by creating new forms of trust and currency.

Transcripts

you all uh great to see you here uh we

have discussed at this Summit uh where

AI is going uh where Financial firms and

central banks are planning to hope to do

with AI uh but also how they're planning

to manage risks that they can see

stemming from AI uh and I hope we can

have a discussion around sort of zooming

out from the world of of um Ai and and

the financial world and and and think

about more opportunities and threats for

our broader Society uh but if I may I

I've heard you say that um you don't see

any serious attempts to regulate uh the

financial system as we see it in the

world to actually be at a level where

humans can understand it and given that

starting point uh and given uh the uh

the issues around AI it's not looking

like the financial system is going to

get any easier to understand um so um if

we think that this is going to play out

how would you think um that regulators

and supervisors should should think

about um uh AI in the context of the

already complicated financial industry

we're operating

in well that's a very important question

and I think what we should understand is

that people need to understand Finance

at the present moment I think that maybe

1% of the population really understands

how the Financial system works what

happens if this number goes down to zero

no human being no president no prime

minister no nobody in the Central Bank

understand Finance anymore because AI

has made it too complicated uh this

could lead to a political and social

crisis of a Kind we've never encountered

before it could lead to power shifting

from humans to algorithms to Al

forms of intelligence and maybe I'll

start by saying what Finance is what

does the financial sector do you know

Farmers grow food that we eat H uh

workers produce the textiles that we

wear what does the financial system do

it creates trust this is the product

ultimately the product of the financial

system is trust money for instance is a

mechanis ISM to create instant trust

between millions of strangers I go into

a shop I meet a stranger that I never

met in my life I give them this piece of

paper and they give me food in exchange

and bonds and uh shares and so forth

people have invented so many different

Financial

devices over history but what they

really do is create trust between

millions of of people so they can share

their resources their knowledge and work

together towards common goals now until

today the only entities that could

understand Financial devices like money

or bonds or shares and could create

could invent new Financial devices with

human beings hes did not understand

money we bought and sold horses for

money but the horses didn't understand

money which is why they couldn't for

instance unite a million horses together

now ai is the first tool that we created

that can actually understand Finance

better than us because you know Finance

in the end it's the easiest thing for an

AI to to really understand it's only

data it's only information to wash

dishes AI needs to do something in the

in the real world in the physical world

that's difficult but to understand

Finance it's only information in

information out now the danger is that

AI would be able on the one hand in in

the hands of Bad actors AI could destroy

trust between people and on the other

hand the main trust will be between

different AI

systems so just imagine a

scenario when most of the financial

activity in the world is being done by

AI humans have lost the ability to

understand most of the financial system

it's too complicated for our brains and

there is a financial

crisis and no un politician is able to

understand what is happening we have to

rely on the AI to tell us what is the

crisis and what are the potential

Solutions the political

implications are dangerous on on on

different levels but most clearly it's

really giving

control of a very important part of the

world and a very important part of

politics to a nonhuman intelligence that

we cannot regulate and

supervise so I I take from this that

this is a very sobering message so let's

let's unpack that a bit further um um

you you can say that okay only 1%

perhaps understand the financial system

I would claim that uh most most of us

happily step into an era plane having

very vague understanding of how that

works but we trust that people who don't

even know each other we certainly don't

know them uh take us from A to B without

the plane crashing uh but it sounds from

what I hear you saying that this last

percent if that goes down to zero then

we are all in in deep trouble uh and and

one way to create a catchphrase from

what you're saying is uh no further AI

without further

trust um and I would say that um we

might be in a lucky situation that we

are at the early phases of exploring AI

or at least at least for the moment

assume that uh you have warned that if

we're not careful the decis makers in

the future might sort of be reduced to

puppets and the real decision makers are

just algorithms but um if we don't want

to get on that path or I mean the

history is not sort of or if the future

is not sort of predetermined we can

actually decide where we want to go what

do you think we need to do now with the

with the tools we have at hand to make

sure that we don't end up in that

situation neither in the financial

system and and certainly not when it

comes to decision making as a whole in

our in our

countries uh we need to prevent AI from

becoming completely

unfathomable that if we give it a lot of

power to make decisions about human

beings about human

society uh we need the ability to

understand it and to regulate it uh this

is this is the crucial condition and

there is a very big difference between a

situation when 1% of you Humanity

understand something and

0% that's a very big difference and then

your example with the airplane is

perfect I mean yes this is why we have

experts We Trust experts in many

different fields with airplanes with

medicine it's the same with Finance we

don't need everybody to understand

everything this is this is really

impossible but if you think about for

instance the the one of the last big

financial crisis the one of 20072 2008

it started with a failure of Regulation

over new Financial tools new Financial

devices the cdos that some very very

bright people invented but almost nobody

understood and that therefore there was

an oversight of Regulation now imagine a

situation maybe in 10 years when AIS

create a new Financial device which is

orders of or orders of magnitude more

complic at than cdos you need to go of

trillions of of of data data points to

to to understand this this financial

device we can't do that but the AIS can

for a couple of years it works perfectly

well it generates a lot of trust it

generates economic growth profits and

then something goes wrong and nobody

knows why and again we can ask the AI to

tell us what has happened and what to do

about it but uh this is a very dangerous

situation and also the the even if it

gives us good advice it it it it raises

a question about whether the public will

continue to trust the political system

like you vote for politicians who are

supposed to make these decisions but

they are no longer able to understand

what is happening we already are in a

situ sitation when the public is losing

trust in experts in politicians in

Democratic

institutions um this could really

exacerbate this crisis of trust between

the general public and the supposed

experts and politicians uh that that

hopefully understand what is happening

and and

regulated so going to your um role your

day job as a as a distinguished

historian uh I mean I I get that there's

uh risks around artificial intelligence

we could possibly the greatest

transition that the world has has faced

but as an historian you know this is not

the first big transition we have seen in

the world perhaps the biggest but but

certainly Industrial Revolution general

purpose Technologies the uh the Advent

of modern democracies are were were

pretty groundbreaking shakeups

a couple of revolutions thrown in in a

Wars pretty serious shakeups um uh and

and um so my I guess my question to you

is that um what what can we learn from

the past here to try to avoid having to

land in that sort of situation that

you're warning from as in

historian um all good examples from

history where people actually manag to

avoid getting things to wrong and that

we can take inspiration

from yeah I think humans are extremely

adaptable and you know every everything

we invent has both negative and positive

potential you invent a knife you can use

it to murder somebody or to save their

life in surgery or to cut salad so there

is always both of these potentials and

uh over time humans learn the dangers

and they they understand how to employ

the technology of the new structure in

in in the best way the problem is the

transition period the problem is the

path even if in the end we get it right

on the way there we often have to go

through dangerous and failed experiments

so let's take the Industrial Revolution

as an example that when machines started

to transform the economy and Society in

the 18th century the 19th century there

are a lot of Doomsday prophecies about

what the machines will do and looking

back from 2024 we can say that in the

end we got it more or less right we

learned how to use steam engines and

electricity and trains in order to build

more prosperous and even more people

peaceful

societies than in the 18th century but

the the big problem was was the failed

experiment on the

way uh modern imperialism for instance

was a very big failed experiment in how

to build industrial societies there are

a lot of people in the 19th century that

argued that the only way to build an

effective industrial society was to

build an Empire

because unlike previous agricultural

societies which were more or less self-

sustaining an industrial society needed

a lot of raw materials and Global

markets and the only way to do that was

to build an Empire so imperialism with

the the millions of victims and the

Terrible Things it did was really a

failed experiment in how to build an

industrial society

communism was another failed experiment

in how to build an industrial society

and that a lot of people in the 1920s

1930s even later thought that the best

way to build an industrial society was

what the Soviets were doing and it took

decades and tens of millions of victims

to realize that no this is not the best

way to use electricity and steam engines

and trains Nazism was another failed

experiment in building an industrial

society now if we had to go through

these kinds of failed experiments with

imperialism and totalitarianism and

world wars in order to learn how to make

the best use of electricity and the

internal combustion engine and trains

and things like that what will happen in

the 21st century when we have to learn

how to use

far more powerful

technology now ai is again potentially

orders of magnitude more powerful than

anything we saw in the industrial

revolution because AI is the First Tool

in history that can make decisions by

itself and can create new ideas by

itself steam engines could not decide

how to use themselves we decided what to

do with them even atom bombs could not

create new

ideas but AI can make decisions by

itself this is the very definition of an

AI it's a a machine that can learn

things we don't know and can make

decisions independently and can create

completely new ideas that no human being

have ever thought about learning how to

use these tools in a good way is likely

to be more

complicated than learning how to use

steam

engines now we can say that in the end

it will be okay we'll get it right as a

historian I'm concerned about the way

not about the end result if we have to

go through another cycle of Empires and

totalitarian regimes and world wars

based on AI

uh this is very very bad

news well it sounds like um to see a

silver lining in

this we will get it right after we've

tried everything else imperialism

communism Nazism

and maybe to give a further positive

spin is that we and our children

grandchild Etc will have knowledge that

they didn't have back then yeah so uh

let's hope that we could sort of fast

forward through that period or avoid it

all together uh and I think one of the

ways to do that is to be a be mindful of

uh uh the risks technology is fantastic

but used in the wrong way it can be uh

very dangerous um I I think I have some

people in the audience there might

disagree that it's inevitable that AI

will take over decision making but it

will certainly influence decision making

we have discussed um whether uh monetary

policy decisions is possible to automate

the answer is yes but as human beings we

always want to have um someone

accountable or someone to

blame uh and that's a deep human uh um

feature in us that we ultimately we want

to interact with one another rather than

than a machine machine is helpful but

you we we are still Still Human enough

to to want to uh interact with one

another at the end of the day I I have I

I think I know the answer to your

question now given that um your view

about what the financial

crisis um the upbringing of the

financial crisis some 15 years ago but

still I I I'll have a shot at this so

the mission of the bank for

international settlements is to support

central banks uh through intern National

Corporation to pursue monetary and

financial stability I think personally

the beauty of central banks is that they

are not as dependent on um short-term

political decision making as many other

parts of the public sector so central

banks if they operate well and has a

wellworking mandate they can actually

take the longer

perspective um and um do you think that

there could be a role for central banks

in sort of Drive International

coroporation

um where AI is used with care uh that

the Central Banking Community can sort

of show good practice if you will uh and

and sure there would be others who has

another different agenda uh but that is

something that um well we would have to

leave to the law enforcement agencies

and ultimately military defense but do

you think there is a there is some sort

of way out of your rather dire forecasts

yeah absolutely again I'm if it was

doomed there was no point having this

conversation that's reassuring thank

you the history is never deterministic

we always have options the same

technology can always be used in

different ways again looking back to the

20th century you look at industrial

technology it it was used to create

totalitarian regimes but also liberal

democracies you look at North Korea and

South Korea today they have access to

exactly the same technology using it in

a very different way now um the the how

to make sure that we are using

technology wisely I wouldn't trust some

technological Gadget to do it for us we

need to have humans in the loop but I

wouldn't trust any individual Geniuses

or charismatic charismatic leaders

either um the solutions that we again

and again see in history is

institutions I know that people often

find institutions again complicated and

and bureaucratic and and but this is the

best thing that humans have managed to

come up with and we need to build good

institutions this is the only thing that

can really protect us from the most

dangerous potential of of AI and also

other

Technologies I would say

that two things that are very important

for a a a bank when coming to to think

about the regulation of AI is first of

all to make sure that the AI remains

accountable and and understandable if we

reach a point when we can no longer

understand it then at least in

Democratic Society is um this is really

the end of

democracy if if a democratic public can

no longer understand and hold someone

accountable for financial decisions this

is a very large part of what politics is

about is about Finance is is about the

the the economy and um we of course will

need to rely also on technology to help

us understand

AI but we'll need to keep humans in the

loop

and for this we need to build good human

institutions the other point is to keep

the focus on the issue of trust and

going back to what we spoke in the

beginning uh money is really trust money

is not made of gold or silver or paper

or anything money is trust between

people this is the goal of the financial

system so when you come to regulate the

financial system the key question is is

how do we make it easier to create more

trust between more people if we achieve

this then the goal is

achieved you said we should keep humans

in the loop I think uh we should be more

ambitious than that uh and and let me

before I open the floor for questions

from the audience just point out one

thing that is I think strong

characteristics humankind which is that

um we have dreams um and then some

things that we do are not entirely

rational and some things can be outright

a bit crazy or uh be revealed as a pure

accident um let me take some examples um

the idea to put a man on the moon uh

wasn't entirely rational would probably

not have survived today's budget

committees but it worked in the 60s

thank God for that um uh accidental uh

discovery was the discovery of

penicillin or Alexander Fleming was a

very good marketer uh but certainly a

very

inspiring uh um

example I don't think personally that AI

could replicate these sort of events

that are not entirely rational or sort

of happen by by accident so from where I

see it um uh humans will still play an

important role to to create the sort of

quantum leaps that these two examples

uh give uh or do you think that AI will

take over those as

well I think that a lot of people say

that AI will never be creative but it is

already very

creative uh you look at examples like

the game of Go which was one of the the

first time that really the world woke up

to to the age of AI uh go is a board

game a bit like chess but much much much

more complicated people have been

playing go for 3,000 years in East Asia

it has been considered for thousands of

years one of the most important out

forms that every cultured person should

know intire schools of thought about how

to play go and different

strategies then Alpha go came along and

within a few weeks or months

revolutionized the game it's started

playing go in a way that no humans ever

thought of playing for 3,000 years what

turned what what what what became clear

is because we are organic beings that

evolved by Evolution our imagination and

the way we think is limited to let's say

a certain area within the landscape of

playing

go and for 3,000 years we only exploded

this limited landscape this limited area

AI is not organic it doesn't think like

a human or a chimpanzee or a dog it

makes decisions in a completely

different way and within a very short

time it started exploring completely new

or alen areas within this landscape of

go what's true of go is is true of more

and more areas in science in art you

know AI is now composing music so people

say yes but it only learns from previous

human Symphonies and and poems and songs

that's true for now but this is true of

us as well a human composer also relies

on

previous experience or previous

exemplars but already now ai is

beginning to explore new areas in the

landscape of music and maybe most

important to understand is that AI is

just a tiny baby the AI of today is just

the the you know if you thinking again

in evolutionary terms it's like we are

10

years from the beginning of organic

evolution on

Earth if you go back 4 billion years ago

go to the beginning of organic life so

think that you are 10 years from the

emergence of the first life

forms and can you even Envision

dinosaurs or human

beings now ai is is is just beginning

and but it's its evolution is much much

faster than organic evolution it is

millions of times faster so if the AI of

today are like

amibas we might encounter the AI

tyranosaurus Rex within a decade or

two and we have no idea what it will be

capable of doing again all these

discussions of AI 10 years ago nobody

except a very small community of experts

was talking about

AI so think about the previous 10 years

and try to imagine where we will be in

10 or 20 years and uh in terms of

creativity I have no doubt given what we

already know that AI is capable of maybe

a different kind of creativity but

precisely because of that it's really

going to be a game Cher in in so many

fields because you know the the the

initials AI people think it stands for

out arcial intelligence but there is

nothing artificial about the new forms

of of of

AI they are developing on their own it's

better to think about AI as standing for

alien intelligence because it really

thinks and creates in an alien way a

different way from us and this is even

true of

Finance again I think about financial

device

as a kind of out for the first person

who came up with the idea of a bond or

of a currency or of Bitcoin this is a

sort of art it's very creative very

imaginative so I think we'll see AI

creativity also in this field coming

coming up with new types of financial

devices that no human being would ever

imagine creating

I would say that uh those financial um

products that you pointed out to they

came up because they satisfied someone's

need and I think that is something that

is hugely important uh among human

beings that we are very good at figuring

out a what needs do we have do we want

to satisfy sometimes we don't know that

we had needs that we wanted to satisfy

with Steve Jobs with his iPhone they

explored uh but uh I I'm more optimistic

than you uh and I'm going to stick to

those institutions actually uh because I

think I agree that that those are our

best way to organize and coordinate uh

sort of AI development in a in a

responsible way not everybody will join

that Journey uh but if enough people do

it enough institutions are on that

journey I think we I think I still think

we have a good shot I I certainly like

being an optimist uh more than anything

else but uh let's open up the floor for

questions from the audience and please

state your name and and I think we have

a new record in the name number of so

let's start with the gentleman up to the

left side and please state your name

first and then your question to M

Professor Harari thank you Cecilia um my

name is hien um thank you very much um

to Professor Hari as well it's been

really privileged listening to you so my

question is really goes in the same ve

of of a recent discussion is about human

versus AI um the human is more

intelligent ingenious form right I mean

it's organic form we know how to sustain

and we sustain over last years you know

the climate crisis um you know so where

we are today and if you look at the

future um we cannot look at the AI in

isolation right there are other external

factors to play and in particular the

climate right the sustainability aspect

um AI is feed on electricity electricity

then feed on these sort of Natural

Resources which are dep depleting and

these kind of things so how do you sort

of see that you know AI is sort of

surviving or AI sort of overcoming those

challenges which human have and human

still have the ability in sort of to go

through those kind of another um round

of challenges you know um so just wanted

to get your perspective on this that

energy uh consumption is going to hold

back on the AI development it it well

energy consumption as as we uh moves low

right as we actually increase more

capacities um there will be more

consumption right and if we actually

start feeding more energies and

electricity I think it's going to have

the sort of downside effect on the

environment and the natural resources

all of these things so somewhere

actually it's going to come to the Hal

right um now human can survive without

electricity but AI would not right I

that's a that's a cude example probably

your question again is well I think

understood the question okay and I on

this I may have something more positive

to

say uh and I'm not against AI I don't

think we can just stop developing it and

I think it has a lot of positive

potential one of the positive potentials

is to help us deal with the climate

crisis and with the energy crisis I

don't think that it's uh given the the

current political and economic situation

around the world uh solving the climate

crisis by stopping all economic growth

is is impossible and and unwanted

because there are billions of people

around the world whose living conditions

need a significant Improvement and you

know if every person in India in Africa

in South

America enjoys the same living

conditions as the average person in

Europe or the United States with current

technology the ecology will collapse but

on the other hand we can't say to people

in India or in Africa no you cannot

enjoy what the Europeans have so we need

to develop better technology uh more

eco-friendly technology and we need to

do it fast and this is something that AI

when it's used correctly can certainly

help help us with uh the basic uh

understanding is that there is no

shortage of energy in the universe we

just don't know how to tap it and how to

use it in the in the best way in the

most eco-friendly way and I think this

is one field where AI can be extremely

helpful thank you let's take a question

on this side so um why don't we take one

uh over

there yeah you get to choose if you you

need to hold your hands up otherwise you

will lose the

chance woman that's

nice so thank you very much um it's a

pleasure and an honor to be talking to

you your books are fantastic so uh

Gemini happened um Google's Gemini this

was a couple of months

ago uh many would argue that there was

decision to put the finger on the scale

so that the the outcomes that

individuals would see when they were

using Gemini were much more PC I don't

know if everybody in the room is

familiar with this this but you would

put in show me pictures of the founders

of the United States and you would see

an African-American woman

um I was in Silicon Valley when this

just happened and and I was talking to

different people out there like where

does this go because in the end these

are individuals that are prompting

seeking information and getting feedback

from algorithms and some of the

libertarian points of views that were

shared with me are

in the end individuals are going to see

what basically the AI has been trained

that they want to see it's the human

bias that this is going to be almost

like a reinforcement

Loop and and I'm trying to and and so

then the next question is so okay in the

United States we have the southeast

where we have maybe we see lots of

people of a certain race and other

places right like where does this go and

so I'm I continue to poke at this

question and I'm trying to Recon it with

what you saying about it's trusted

institutions because I'm having a hard

time seeing how this sort of plays out

in a way that isn't what we're all

afraid of you know humans attacking each

other yeah I mean you know we had these

kinds of of debates and problems

throughout history every time a new

information technology comes along there

is a big discussion about censorship and

you know when when the printing press

was invented the big best sellers of

early modern Europe they were not

scientific books hardly anybody read

Galileo cicus the big best sellers were

uh uh witch hunting manuals how to

identify and kill witches very popular

also popular were these extremist

religious literature the printing press

was to some extent responsible for the

Scientific Revolution but also for the

European Witch Hunt craze which was a

modern not a medieval phenomenon and

also for the wars of

religion so they had a big issue with

what kind of things you are allowed to

print and we have a big issue with what

kind of things AI is allowed to say the

difference is that AI has agency unlike

printing presses the printing press

printed whatever you told it to print AI

is learning by itself any attempt to try

and kind of in advance determine what

these AIS will say down the road is

ultimately doomed to failure because

they are learning and developing this is

a huge issue for democracies it's even a

bigger issue for dictatorships one thing

that people often miss is that dictators

are terrified of of these AIS even more

than democratic governments because

think about it what is the most

dangerous thing for a dictator the most

most dangerous thing for a dictator is a

subordinate more powerful than the

dictator that the dictator does not know

how to control dictators usually control

their subordinates their agents by

terrifying them but you cannot terrorize

and AI think about a chatbot let's say

in the in in in Russia now a human is

afraid to say certain things in Russia

because he or she could be punished but

you cannot send a chatbot to the

gulag so how do you make sure that the

chatbot doesn't start to say all kinds

of things that it is not supposed to

say and um and there is in in essence

it's a new challenge for all kinds of

human regimes because it's the first

time in history that regimes either

Democratic or or dictatorial need to

figure out

how to

control agents entities with agency

which have no emotions which cannot be

terrorized or punished or or or whatever

so it's it's it's going to be a very

interesting right for for all

governments around the world how to deal

with this issue no doubt uh let's have

one last question on this side uh

Vincent you get to choose

again or if you can combine your

questions maybe you can coordinate there

yeah we'll see but these two are your

last my name is fabiio and I make it

very short I liked what you mentioned

money is trust among people and the goal

is to have more trust with more people

could you elaborate a bit what would be

the best next action to reach that goal

and maybe as a side remark is this maybe

the chance to overcome the concept of of

Nations I think we need at this stage to

overcome the concept of Nations

gentlemen at the front do you have a

related question or something completely

I do all right fire aways um because

this is because Nations I think in in

your terminology on your thought would

be uh would be fictions um so so um You

On a related note um the space that the

human go player can operate in is

limited by its evolutionary biology and

so on right whereas Nai is not um the

fictional constructs that we can come up

with as human beings are limited by our

our evolutionary biology as well um but

an AI is not could there be fictions

that could that could be could result in

human flourishing which far exceeds that

which uh we could come up with on our

own and are we morally obliged therefore

to give up to our robot overlords and

allow them to determine what the

fictions should be that we are then

pursuing to maximize human flourishing

all right the end of Nations and the

well sort of end of humans uh you all

have a short the short the short answer

is no very dangerous to just trust the

AIS yes they can create completely new

kinds of fictions but fiction again it

can be helpful it can be very dangerous

nations are a good example yes Nations

is something that we created in our

imagination they exist only in our

Collective imagination

um they can be very dangerous if we

don't know how to use them leading to

Wars and conflict and so forth but they

are also so far one of the best

inventions one one of the most best

creations of humanity uh because Nations

enable us to go beyond the immediate

circle of friends and family that we

know personally and care about millions

of strangers that we never met you know

patriotism in its in its best form what

patriotism means is that I'm paying

taxes so that strangers on the other

side of the country will get good health

care this is patriotism and people who

imagine that without Nations we would be

living in some kind of of a kind of

Utopia no at present we would just

disintegrate into tribal chaos with

people caring only about their immediate

uh uh friends and family yes we need to

find ways for Nations too to cooperate

between them but this is the key not to

abolish Nations we are not there yet in

in terms of what we are capable of

historically the question is how do we

make them cooperate instead of fighting

each other and uh here yes we need new

imaginative Creations also in the field

of Finance which again should focus on

building

trust so to take one a famous example if

when I look at at Bitcoin as an as as as

a as a historian I don't like it because

this is a money built on

distrust the central idea of Bitcoin is

basically electronic gold that we don't

trust the banks the governments so we

don't want to give them the ability to

create as much money as they like so we

create this Bitcoin it's a currency of

distrust I do think that the future

belongs to electronic money but what

we've seen over the last centuries is

that it's actually a good idea to give

Banks and governments the ability to

create more and more money uh in order

to build more trust within

Society so I'm not sure what kind what

money would look like in 20 years or 30

years but I hope it will be a a currency

of Greater trust and not a currency of

distrust we get it

done and it's also reassuring to hear uh

that institutions as a future and

countries has a future that will be uh

happy dreams for me tonight and uh we're

going to talk to you at some point in

the future and hope that we are still

here in Flesh and Bones and not in our

algorithmic forms thank you very much

Professor arari I can say that I have a

very happy audience in front of me and

we're giving you a hand for us