GEF Madrid 2024: AI, Enhancing Digital Safety in Schools?

Summary

The panel discussion, featuring experts from diverse educational backgrounds, delves into the impact of AI in schools. Concerns are raised about students' over-reliance on AI, potentially undermining learning and human connection. The panel emphasizes the importance of establishing guidelines and guardrails for ethical AI use, considering teacher-student relationships and pedagogical soundness. The conversation highlights the need for benchmarks that assess AI tools' appropriateness for educational contexts and stresses the importance of human interaction and well-being in learning.

Takeaways

• 🌏 Stuart Mitchell from Educational Services Australia emphasizes the importance of the national task force for the safe and responsible use of AI in schools and the development of the Australian framework for ethical AI use in education.
• 🏫 Joe Clement and Matt Miles, high school teachers and authors, express skepticism about the impact of AI and technology in classrooms, highlighting the potential for misuse and the importance of teachers' experiences in policy discussions.
• 🤔 Jeff Bradley, former Director of the commission on International Education, stresses the need for a shared understanding of the purpose of school before implementing AI tools, and the importance of guidelines and guardrails for AI use in education.
• 👥 French, President of the Federation for European education, discusses the need to focus on the relationship between teachers and students, the importance of citizenship skills, and the potential impact of AI on the role of teachers.
• 📊 Maria Jose Oando, representing a UK-based education consultancy, talks about the need for benchmarks that focus on pedagogy and the appropriateness of AI-generated content for different age groups in education.
• 🔒 The panel agrees on the challenge of ensuring AI applications are designed ethically, considering student well-being, transparency, and explainability, especially given the 'black box' nature of AI technology.
• 👨‍🏫 There is a consensus on the crucial role of teachers in the implementation of AI, with a focus on the socio-emotional and cultural aspects of education that AI cannot replace.
• 📉 The discussion points out the potential negative impacts of technology on students' well-being, with increased rates of depression, anxiety, and loneliness correlating with the rise of digital devices.
• 🛑 The panel calls for caution and careful consideration of the risks associated with AI in education, advocating for policies and practices that prioritize student well-being and ethical use.
• 🌐 The conversation highlights the global nature of the AI in education discussion, with perspectives from Australia, the United States, Europe, and the developing world.
• 🚧 The panel suggests that while AI has the potential to automate tasks and improve educational processes, its implementation must be managed with clear policies and an understanding of its limitations in enhancing learning and teaching.

Q & A

What is the name of the organization Stuart Mitchell represents?

Stuart Mitchell represents Educational Services Australia, a not-for-profit company owned by the ministers for education in Australia.

What was the role of Stuart Mitchell in the national task force for the safe and responsible use of AI in schools?

Stuart Mitchell had the privilege of being part of the national task force for the safe and responsible use of AI in schools, where he played a part in the development of the Australian framework for the safe and ethical use of AI in schools.

What is the perspective of Joe Clement and Matt Miles on educational technology?

Joe Clement and Matt Miles, who are high school teachers and co-authors of the book 'Screen Schooled', consider themselves as Tech Skeptics. They express concerns about the overuse of screens and technology in classrooms and their potential negative impact on student learning.

What is the concern expressed by the panelists about AI in education?

The panelists express concerns about the potential misuse of AI, such as students relying on it to take shortcuts in learning, and the lack of understanding of AI's role in education. They also discuss the importance of having a shared understanding of the purpose of schooling before integrating AI tools.

What does Jeff Bradley emphasize as a fundamental question regarding AI in education?

Jeff Bradley emphasizes the need for a shared understanding of what school is for, suggesting that the purpose of schooling should be agreed upon before discussing the integration of AI tools in the educational system.

What is the role of the AI for Education.org initiative as described by Maria Jose Oando?

The AI for Education.org initiative, led by Maria Jose Oando, focuses on building AI tools and products for developing countries in sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia. The initiative ensures that these tools are pedagogically sound and relevant for the context of developing countries.

What challenges does Educational Services Australia face in implementing guard rails for AI applications?

Educational Services Australia faces challenges in assessing whether an AI application is designed ethically, considering student well-being and rights, and dealing with the 'black box' nature of AI technology, which lacks transparency and explainability.

What is the importance of the teacher-student relationship according to the panelists?

The panelists stress the importance of the teacher-student relationship for enhancing learning outcomes and digital safety. They argue that this relationship should be at the center of educational practices, especially in the context of AI integration.

What is the potential impact of AI on the role of teachers, as discussed by the panel?

The panel discusses the potential for AI to change the role of teachers, with concerns that AI could replace teachers or reduce them to mere assistants. There is a call to strengthen the teacher-student relationship and protect teachers' jobs in the face of AI integration.

What does Claude compare the current situation of AI in education to, and what is the lesson to be learned?

Claude compares the current situation of AI in education to the advent of social media, which started with great promise but has had unforeseen negative impacts. The lesson to be learned is the importance of implementing guard rails and guidelines to ensure the safe and positive use of AI in schools.

What is the purpose of the 'Responsible Artificial Intelligence for Learning' (RAIL) developed by the Middle States Association (MSA)?

The RAIL developed by MSA is a set of protocols and standards that schools need to meet and adhere to in order to receive a credential indicating they are properly managing and using AI in education. It includes safeguards and requires schools to have policies on the treatment of AI technology.

Outlines

00:00

🗣️ Introduction to the Panel

The video script begins with an introduction by Stuart Mitchell from Educational Services Australia, a not-for-profit organization involved in educational technology. He mentions his role in the national task force for AI in schools and the development of a framework for the safe and ethical use of AI. The introduction also includes a quick rundown of the diverse panelists, setting the stage for a dynamic discussion on AI in education.

05:29

🤔 Skepticism in EdTech Adoption

Joe Clement and Matt Miles, both high school teachers in the United States, express skepticism about the impact of technology in classrooms. They discuss the gap between the promises of transformative educational technology and the reality of its use by students, emphasizing the need for teachers' voices in policy discussions. They also highlight the potential negative effects of AI, such as students relying on AI to take shortcuts in learning.

10:51

🌐 International Perspectives on AI in Education

The panel includes international perspectives from French, the President of the Federation for European Education, and Jeff Bradley, former Director of the commission on International Education. They discuss the importance of understanding the purpose of school before integrating AI tools and the need for shared understanding and guidelines for the use of AI in education. The conversation touches on the challenges of assessing AI applications ethically and the importance of considering student well-being.

15:51

🔒 The Role of Human Rights and Well-being in AI Integration

The discussion delves into the intersection of human rights, well-being, and AI, with emphasis on the importance of the teacher-student relationship. Concerns are raised about students becoming too dependent on AI and the potential devaluation of teachers' roles. The panelists consider the implications of AI on the service of teachers and the need to protect their jobs in the face of AI advancements.

20:54

📚 The Importance of Pedagogical Benchmarks for AI Tools

Maria Jose Oando, representing a UK-based education consultancy, discusses the rapid adoption of AI tools and the challenges of selecting appropriate educational technology. She highlights the need for benchmarks that focus on pedagogy and content appropriateness for different age groups, emphasizing the difficulty of evaluating AI tools that perform multiple tasks in education.

25:55

👩‍🏫 The Impact of AI on Teacher-Student Relationships

The panelists explore the potential impact of AI on the crucial relationship between teachers and students. There are concerns that AI could replace the human connection in education, which is vital for students' socio-emotional well-being. The discussion also touches on the potential for AI to exacerbate educational inequities and the importance of maintaining human interaction in learning.

30:56

🛡️ Implementing Guard Rails for AI in Education

The conversation concludes with a focus on managing AI in education responsibly. The panelists discuss the need for policies, protocols, and standards to ensure the safe and beneficial use of AI. They highlight the importance of involving teachers in policy development and educating all stakeholders about the responsible use of AI in schools.

Keywords

💡Educational Technology

Educational Technology refers to the use of technology, especially computers, mobile devices, and the internet, in the education sector to enhance teaching and learning. In the video, Stuart Mitchell discusses his role in rolling out educational technology that aligns with the national agenda in Australia, emphasizing the importance of integrating technology responsibly in educational settings.

💡Artificial Intelligence (AI)

Artificial Intelligence is the simulation of human intelligence in machines that are programmed to think like humans and mimic their actions. The video script discusses the national task force for the safe and responsible use of AI in schools, indicating a growing concern about how AI can be ethically and effectively integrated into educational environments.

💡Framework

A framework in this context refers to a set of guidelines or principles that provide a structure for addressing a particular issue. The Australian framework for the safe and ethical use of AI in schools mentioned in the script is an example of a framework designed to guide the implementation of AI in educational settings, ensuring it is done so in a manner that is considerate of ethical implications.

💡Pedagogically Sound

Pedagogically sound refers to educational practices or tools that are based on sound educational principles and strategies. Maria Jose Oando discusses the importance of ensuring that AI tools are not only technologically advanced but also pedagogically sound, meaning they should effectively support teaching and learning processes.

💡Ethical Use

Ethical use pertains to the application of moral principles to guide decisions and actions. The panelists in the video emphasize the need for ethical considerations in the use of AI in schools, such as transparency, explainability, and the protection of student well-being and rights, indicating a concern for responsible integration of AI.

💡Human Rights

Human rights are the basic rights and freedoms to which all individuals are entitled. In the script, the discussion around AI and its impact on education brings up the topic of human rights, particularly in the context of student well-being and the potential for AI to either support or infringe upon these rights.

💡Accreditation

Accreditation is a process by which a school or educational program is evaluated and recognized for meeting certain standards. Jeff Bradley, a former director of an international education commission, talks about the role of accreditation agencies in overseeing standards, including AI standards, that schools are expected to follow.

💡Personalized Learning

Personalized learning is an educational approach that tailors teaching methods and content to meet the individual needs and interests of each student. The script mentions the promise of AI to provide personalized learning experiences, but also raises concerns about the potential loss of human connection in the process.

💡Social-Emotional Wellbeing

Social-emotional wellbeing refers to the state of one's social and emotional health, including the ability to manage emotions, form relationships, and navigate social situations. The panelists express concerns about the impact of AI on students' social-emotional wellbeing, particularly in terms of the potential for increased isolation and disconnection.

💡Guard Rails

Guard rails are metaphorically used to represent measures or policies put in place to prevent errors or problems. In the context of the video, guard rails are discussed as necessary for the safe and proper use of AI in schools, ensuring that the technology is used responsibly and does not harm students or the educational process.

Highlights

Stuart Mitchell introduces himself as part of the national task force for the safe and responsible use of AI in schools in Australia.

Joe Clement and Matt Miles, co-authors of 'Screen Schooled', express skepticism about the impact of technology on students' learning.

French, President of the Federation for European Education, emphasizes the importance of the teacher-student relationship in enhancing digital safety and quality.

Jeff Bradley discusses the role of AI standards in international education and the importance of shared understanding of the purpose of school.

Maria Jose Oando highlights the need for AI tools to be pedagogically sound and relevant for developing countries.

The panelists agree on the necessity of involving teachers in the conversation about AI integration in education.

Concerns are raised about students' dependency on AI and the potential negative impact on their learning process.

The discussion points out the gap between the potential of AI and its practical application in enhancing student well-being and human rights.

The need for guidelines and guard rails for the ethical use of AI in education is emphasized.

Stuart Mitchell talks about the challenges of translating the Australian framework for AI in schools into practical directives for software companies.

The panel discusses the difficulty in assessing whether AI applications are designed ethically, considering student well-being and rights.

Claude stresses the importance of focusing on teachers and the risk of AI replacing the role of educators.

Maria Jose Oando discusses the rush to market AI tools in education and the lack of benchmarks focusing on pedagogy.

The conversation highlights the potential of AI to automate grading and administrative tasks, freeing up teacher time.

Matt Miles expresses concern about the social and emotional impact of AI on students, emphasizing the importance of human connection.

The panel concludes with a call for careful consideration of AI's role in education, focusing on student well-being and ethical use.

Transcripts

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okay welcome everyone um my name's

Stuart Stuart Mitchell I'm from

Australia from uh an organization called

Educational Services Australia where I

um can you guys hear me okay there we go

that's better so yeah my name is Stuart

Mitchell I'm from uh Education Services

Australia which is a not for-profit

company um owned by the ministers for

education in Australia and we're tasked

with um rolling out educational

technology uh that's in line with the

the national uh agenda but I've also had

the privilege um of being part of the

national task force for the safe uh and

responsible use of AI in schools over

the last year which was a an initiative

set up by the ministers around April

last year and and I played a small part

in the development of a um a framework

that was published in October which was

called the Australian uh framework for

the safe and ethical use of AI in

schools um I'm going to ask your um your

forgiveness on two fronts it's late for

me at night in Australia so my body is

running a little bit late and uh the

other thing is I was asked to jump in

and and facilitate this session at the

last minute so please bear with me um

we're g to start by just doing a quick

runaround we've got a really diverse uh

group of of participants in the panel

today with a range of experiences we're

probably going to drift around the

conversation I think because we have so

much uh so much knowledge in a in a

range of different

capacities um but I might start uh down

with yourself Joe

just a brief introduction uh explaining

uh yeah who you are sure uh my name is

Joe Clement and I'm a high school

teacher in the United States just

outside of Washington DC in Virginia um

been teaching for uh this is my 30th

year and um mat miles and I co-authored

a book called screen schooled it's

available wherever books are sold um

we'll get more into it

later well he just took my introduction

but yes I'm also a high school teacher

with Joe and uh we just to kind of

context we're kind of we would call

ourselves more uh Tech Skeptics um the

subtitle of our book screen school was

two veteran teachers expose how screen

overuse is making our kids

Dumber hello I'm

French and uh I am the President of the

Federation for European education and

I'm elected member of the Bureau of the

steering committee of Education within

the Council of Europe

and hello hello um my name is Jeff

Bradley um I worked for seven years

until just a couple of months ago when I

uh stepped down as the Director of the

commission on International Education uh

at the New England Association of

schools and colleges which accredits K12

schools uh in 93 countries uh around the

world uh and is responsible for

overseeing a lot of the standards that

schools are expected to follow among

which are uh AI standards um close with

some of the other accreditation agencies

as well that work in the International

School world uh and that's some of the

perspective that I want to bring into

the conversation

today hello everybody my name is Maria

Jose oando everybody knows me by Mah uh

my colleague couldn't attend so I think

he got kicked out of the program but I'm

representing him uh we I Le a small

boutique consultant in education in the

UK in London and for the last year and a

half we've been leading the AI for

education.org initiative this in uh this

initiative is is looking how we can

build uh AI tools and products for

developing countries in subsaharan

Africa and as well as East Asia so a lot

of our work that we've been doing is is

is ensuring that these tools are

pedagogically sound but also relevant

for the context in in developing

countries um so that's me

and so as you can see we've got a really

broad range of contexts and experiences

as I mentioned but what I'm really

interested is is perhaps uh Joe and Matt

I'll pass you this microphone as well so

you can both talk simultaneously I'm

really curious uh to hear a little bit

about that skepticism that that

underpins your book and perhaps uh some

of your thinking around uh what you're

seeing in terms of the the difference

perhaps between the theory and the

practice that's emerging in schools in

your context in in the US uh in the use

of AI

thanks thanks very much um the first

thing I I want to point out is that very

often um educational policy is made by

people who are are are well-intentioned

um but often aren't experts in uh kids

and in teaching and a lot of times

teachers are left out of the

conversation um it would be interesting

if there were a session today for

instance just panel of classroom

teachers what are your experiences what

are you seeing um anytime a a new

initiative is is going to be rolled out

that's supposed to be transformative

that's supposed to reimagine how

Education Works and we're going to

redesign the curriculum or whatever

teachers and my mind should be at the

center of that discussion because

they're the ones that are that are doing

it every day and so what we've heard and

as I mentioned I've been teaching for 30

years i' I've heard the word

reimagined uh revolutionary red designed

transformative um I don't know how many

times and and and all of those things if

you go back through

whatever have the potential to to do all

the all the good that we hear about the

potential was there of course the

question is what is the

reality and the reality is um as you

might imagine if you can imagine

yourself being 16 and being handed a

study guide in History Class where

you're supposed to go and look up a

bunch of terms and whatever and then

somebody tells you hey you've got this

tool where you can just type you know

upload your study guide and it'll do it

for

you how how do we think kids are going

to use that that's how they use it and

they're usually very honest about their

their use and they'll tell you that

that's how they use it even though they

understand many of them at least have a

rudimentary understanding of of what is

possible we all look to um take

shortcuts and I think you know teenagers

uh we I mean we work with teenagers but

I think this goes all the way down to

the to the youngest kids also are

looking for some some way to to have to

do less work I me we all are right and I

think that's the that's the problem that

we see is that we keep hearing that this

is going to be such a benefit and we all

want the same thing we all want happier

healthier smarter

kids um we just don't see that happening

very often when it comes to these sorts

of Technology

yeah in the is this in the last

presentation the he kind of glossed over

the quote kids don't learn from AI they

rely on AI and I came to learn about

chat gbt from the suspicion my kids

suddenly started asking if I could load

all the assigns went digitally I give

them a paper copy and they want it

digitally that's interesting I've been

doing this for 16 years and why

digitally and what I learned is they

that way it was easier to copy and paste

everything in Chad jpt right and that's

how I learned about ch gbt it was too

hard for them to actually type it right

now to say that they could produce uh

quality answers um is one thing but

we're you know learning is very

different than producing right we look

at these technologies that are doing

menial tasks well in the workforce

making production more efficient and

lowering costs and that's great but what

we're trying to do is teach and and

that's by by definition has to be a

difficult process for the brain to

retain that and be able to use it they

have to struggle with it it's not about

just quickly producing an essay or or

you know we don't have quotas of essays

we have to grade and they're helping us

meet that quota right they they are

thinking deeply about information and

you can't do that unless it's been

internalized right so so what we see is

that that Reliance on AI is detrimental

or at least it has been so far to

learning Jeff I'm uh ask for your your

perspective on what we've just

heard yeah I I I would agree with what

you're saying in the sense that um

there's a confusion out there about what

is the purpose of the tools that we now

have at our disposal uh I would say that

the confusion and the maybe resistance

to the terms like uh revolutionize and

transform is a lack of I think shared

understanding of a more fundamental Al

question which is what is school

for and until we have a shared

understanding whether it's the community

of families that send their children to

this school or the culture in which

you're embedded that believes that

schools are for this and that purpose

until you have a shared understanding

that everybody can look at and say yes I

agree it's hard to have conversations

about new tools and revolutionizing and

transforming

are you transforming because the um

current uh state of things doesn't

answer the question what is school for

adequately so I think we're confused a

little bit as a culture and and I'm

speaking from the American perspective

and as an accreditation agency um an

accreditation agency would say in the

case of

neasc that I'm most familiar with what

is your school's shared understanding of

highquality learning so we start there

as a kind of fundamental question do you

have that definition of learning a a

shared that people all agree that's what

this school is for when you have that I

think it's a lot easier to say okay

here's this wildly powerful new tool

that by the way we didn't ask for

schools did not put in an order to have

chat GPT dropped into their midst

now we're finding ways of incorporating

it and dealing with it and managing it

and I would just say two words about

that one is guard

rails and guidelines and that guidelines

and guard rails are where safety comes

in and we're proper usage it's an

amazingly powerful tool we know and it's

not a a single thing either because

there are so many applications as we

know but unless we have a kind of common

understanding that this Enterprise of

schooling the reason we send and pay and

have kids do this and have teachers show

up is for the following reasons is it to

get a job is it to promote democracy is

it to promote literacy is it to feed

children as it is literally in in many

CA it's a lot of things in many places

let's have that conversation first and

then let's talk about how best to manage

with

AI thanks Jeff I mean what what that

brings to my mind is is one of the

challenges we're facing in Australia is

around trying to try to bridge some of

those gaps you spoke about so the

framework that I mentioned earlier um

which we've developed which was

fundamentally designed to give guidance

to to teachers and schools about how to

use AI safely and as I said we were

doing this this time last year when the

world was really fresh and emerging

around around Ai and um the the task

force was was a really interesting group

of people it was a it was a mix of um of

academics and policy makers and one of

the stumbling blocks we ran into in the

um in the second session was we're

starting to go down the rabbit hole of

the technology a and thinking about you

know what is it going to do how is it

going to work and we had to stop

ourselves and ask really is this the

best framing for us and or should we

instead frame this framework um um in

terms of the outcomes that we

want uh both uh pedagogically uh from

and from a learning perspective from a

from from students well-being

perspective um human rights

perspective and that was a really

powerful way because what we've got now

is a framework that is sort of resilient

to the changes of Technology however one

of the challenges that that sort of the

organization I'm with has been tasked

with is now turning that into um some

guidance and directives and standards

for software companies to implement

those guard rails that you're talking

about right and in some domains that's

quite straightforward so um security and

privacy were quite relatively

straightforward ones for us to tackle

and we weren't Reinventing the wheel we

were learning from from the rest of the

world um but the area where we've really

struggled has been uh how to how to and

I think this was picked up in one of the

sessions this morning how to assess

uh

whether an AI application is is is

really been designed ethically and how

is it taking into consideration student

well-being and and their and their

rights and so things like transparency

explainability uh these have been real

challenges because there's this blackbox

technology and we can't peer inside it

and it's also a technology that doesn't

really have a a concept of understanding

meaning it is it's as we've been hearing

it's a it's patent a patent making

machine um so this is somewhere where I

mean I'd be interested Claude in in your

perspective I understand you're you're

from the tertiary space but really also

the the human rights and and your

thoughts on I guess that that

intersection of of Human Rights

wellbeing and AI

yeah yeah thank you I would react on

those the two intervention the first is

that um definitely the new

students whatever their pupils or

students they not only rely on AA but

they get quite addict and dependent and

uh this is quite an issue regarding the

topic enhanced safety and uh regarding

also the quality measures we always

until now put the student in the

center of the net but I think this is

oldfashioned we have to put the

relationship between the teacher and the

student in the center and that is very

important to enhance quality and

therefore to enhance digital safety and

for the European point of view I would

say that we usually not in Europe but in

the world we usually split the

competencies into two competencies hard

skills and soft skills and in Europe we

like to split it in three competencies

hard skills soft skills and citizenship

skills

and those citizenship skills they are

focused on human rights critical

thinking um sustainability and that's

very important and I will conclude my

intervention on this I think we have to

focus now as you said on the teachers

because teacher they were supposed and I

speak on the part they were supposed to

have the knowledge but now are there

assisting

AI is AI the supposed to be having the

the knowledge and what is going to be

the role of the teacher and this is very

important because we are partner um in

the social dialogue with the European

Union and we are and you are concerned

we are speaking about the salaries of

the teachers it's not the same to pay a

teacher who has the knowledge than a

teacher who is just an assistant of the

knowledge given by the machine and

giving a look to our nion

interpreters we are very lucky to have

human beings till now but regarding

interpretation and translation 10 years

ago when you had a text to translate it

was it costed around 14 cents up to 20

cent the word now to to be done by human

now to be done by human is 10 to 14

cents because you can have a document

translated for six cents and now when

you want to have your document with the

iso ISO Norm standard it's just only 14

cents that is to say that for his 14

cents you have two translators so this

is very important to also speak about

the service of

people thank you I I want to come back

um a little bit in a moment and and

maybe explore that that question of that

you raised around the relationship

between teachers and students and and

how uh

AI is is kind of playing a role in that

but but before we do I think uh Maria it

would be great to hear from you because

youve got a very different perspective

in terms of the markets that you're

working in and the communities that

you're you're you're engaged with so

we'd love to hear about that yeah thank

you very much yeah as as everybody has

said like we are seeing that AI is is

being adopted faster than what we can

imagine uh in terms of of of AI

development tools we also see a rush to

Market because developers are seeing you

know like putting AI tools and a lot of

like the choices of which tools to

decide is L down to the teachers and to

use like teacher ratings and aspects

like that with AI technology changing so

fast you know like evidence decision

making on which tools are are really

good is is difficult

uh so we've been working in in in our

initiative we started working and

thinking of the evidence piece that that

is needed so that these AI tools are are

really fit for purpose and and a lot of

like I think there are two aspects of

generative AI that has brought into the

new is this generation uh of of of text

and generation and um there's there's a

lot of benchmarks as we know like all

the foundation found foundational models

open AI Gemini compete each other uh

based on like whether they pass the MML

Benchmark and all these benchmarks have

defined you know like can it perform at

a test level of high school or

university in chemistry in all the

subjects you can imagine we've seen a

gap uh and just echoing the the the idea

of of or the focus on supporting the

teachers we've seen a gap that there's

no Benchmark that focuses on pedagogy

that's the first Gap you know like is

this content generated appropriate for

my kids so there's no Benchmark you you

say you know like I want to create

content for my kids they are a age eight

is this the appropriate content for for

the level right so what we're working in

is is trying to close that Gap and

develop a benchmark that looks at the

pedagogy and looks at all the different

tasks that a teacher does to see to see

to see how we can create benchmarks and

obviously the task is very difficult and

at the moment we don't have the solution

because it's not a single single task

task the teachers assess they give

feedback they plan classes and for each

of these ones there could be a different

Benchmark that could be created so maybe

it's a series of benchmarks that are

needed but also you want benchmarks that

can evaluate if the content that is

being produced is appropriate for grade

level two kids so I I agree like our

perspective as well and we have had um

actually two weeks ago with with an

International Community supporting

Educators um are convening to discuss

the benchmarking and and we all agree

that the focus should be at the moment

on the teacher and on on on Guiding that

and I think um yeah that's that's part

of the of the the benchmarking and the

evidence piece the other thing I think

is worth mentioning is when we think

about ech and this is also something

that I've been saying it's like ech has

this connotation that ech is for

Learning and and and and teaching and

that's all but AI has expanded the

capabilities of e tech so if a tool can

automate grading for example I can can

free up time

like the tool should be evaluated

because it automates grading does it

saves time it's not we shouldn't impose

you know like does it improve learning

outcomes when a tool is just designed to

save the time of the teacher right so

there's a lot of like Automation and

processes improvements that you know

like that have expanded the use cases in

education uh that is is it's just worth

considering that ech is no longer just

about learning it's also about processes

around the education system processes

for head teachers processes uh you know

like per performance review at school

level and streamline you know like

administrative tasks that are time

consuming so that's some some

thoughts yeah that's a really really

interesting point I mean there a

significant problem in Australia and

from what I'm hearing around the world

uh is the time that teachers have

available for teaching uh and the amount

of time that is consumed by other

non-teaching tasks and I think that's an

area that's possibly not being looked at

as much in terms of the the hype that's

around Ai and education yeah um John

Matt really interested in your thoughts

again thinking about the role of edtech

in general historically as as it's been

uh it's been delivering a lot of

promises in the classroom and and in

some ways I think has put screens

between students and teachers in some

context particularly going back to to

when I started uh back in the very early

2000s uh with the with the emergence of

sort of v and lmss and you know this

idea that every student's going to be

sitting in class with a a screen between

them and the teacher was was a little

bit baffling to me and and I had a

degree of cynicism I'm wondering what

you're seeing in terms of um coming back

back to claud's point around the

relationship between uh students and

teachers what's the roles that you can

see for for AI there both in a in a

positive but also in a in a challenging

sense um to me they the maybe the

scariest thing um about AI is not I

don't really worry about AI taking my

job or whatever it's that you hear that

uh about personalized learning and about

how every kid is going to be you know if

you if you have uh you need a tutor you

have an AI assistant

whatever there there is no no kid

that gets super excited about the

confetti congratulations you know that

you got the question right you know

whatever that your your AI tutor would

generate for you and what we know

particularly about kids who are

struggling is that the the thing that

matters more than anything else and this

is in educational research that goes

back Generations it's the relationship

between the teacher and student that

matters most of all so when I say scary

it's um there's an there's an equity

piece that I think is is at this point

unaddressed um because what you hear is

AI is going to go into some of the some

schools and and work with some

populations that where where they're

they're cash strapped they don't have

the resources so AI can can take the

role of an individual tutor for every

single kid and very often those are the

kids who who most desperately need the

connection with a human being um in fact

we've seen when um there was there were

schools in Brooklyn there there are um

there are these um automated learning

systems that have been chunked out in

the US and probably around the world to

uh to schools wholesale to schools where

where kids kids are essentially

warehoused in a gymnasium and they're in

a cube and they're you know supposed to

go through their lessons all day long

whatever um and there was an example in

Brooklyn where the students just walked

out um they we're not doing this anymore

and and and you hear these Rebellion

stories um all over the place and so I

think we get seduced by the word

personalized and the phrase personalized

learning individualized

instruction um I I haven't it doesn't

mean I guess it can't work I haven't

seen it work but what I know for a fact

is that students need the connection

with the teacher maybe more than

anything

else yeah and we we get back to the idea

one of the we we wrote the book

primarily in response to that movement

you were talking about um and what we

were seeing in the classroom not only

the screens were distracted but the cell

phones also and what we see is if you

look at any measure of well-being since

the Advent of the smartphone it it's

gone drastically down right depression

rates are at alltime high anxiety rates

suicidal a

all of those our kids are very lonely

and depressed right and they need

there's we were talking about the role

of a teacher it's more than just

delivering content there's the the socio

emotional rule right the social cultural

Rule and when we're dealing with kids

who are so depressed I mean I've I've

had at least half a dozen students

hospitalized for suicidal ideation just

this year so far right and see kids

isolated right anxiety a lot of the five

of four and iips for anxiety disorders

are kids can bring in their noise

cancelling headphones and stay

distracted disconnected they're more

disconnected right and what we know is

that human connection we haven't evolved

you know since we invented you know

Netscape and and other Technologies we

haven't evolved to not need human

connection so that's that social

cultural piece my fear with AIS is even

if you do have a device that can answer

questions for you right that's a missed

opportunity for a connection with

another human being be it the teacher be

it a peer right and if we keep creating

and developing these rabbit holes for

our kids to go down in isolation what is

the impact is that going to have on

their social emotional wellbeing that's

a thought that worries me with

AI I am you you said a word that that we

are going maybe in few years say that is

a very important word fear AI doesn't

know the word fear we fears AI doesn't

not doesn't fear we know that we are

going to die one day AI has eternity in

front and I'm not so optimistic like you

regarding the the teachers you know in

Europe we have a short cage a shortage

of two million

teachers and we are

speaking fortunately or unfortunately

from wealthy country look at the

non-wealthy country they are putting

money not in training teachers but

having more AI more content so I think

that we really have to strengthen the

relationship between teacher and student

to protect also the job of

teachers uh I'm not so optimistic thank

you following up a little bit following

up on the idea of um how do we go about

managing AI because it's here and it's

here to stay and we know that

um I I would advise anybody who asks me

now to find where are uh schools that

care deeply about proper use of AI where

are they turning to whom are they

looking um and on what are they

depending and the one of the scariest

graph uh representations this morning I

think it was Professor Fidel who showed

the um graph line of Technology always

outpacing individuals um and policies

and and companies were were were were

you know next um next in line behind the

people um but policies are the last

things so the technology is here we have

it it's in our pockets it's in our kids

Pockets how do we manage it with

policies and how do we use it because

maybe it can enhance the relationships

between students and teachers I don't

know does it who who's doing it I would

say look to where those schools are that

care deeply about proper use and safe

use and one of the places they're

turning right now is a fellow

accreditation uh Association um based in

in Philadelphia um in Pennsylvania

called the middle States Association MSA

and they've developed something called

rail

rail which is responsible artificial

intelligence for Learning and it's a set

of protocols and standards basically

that schools need to meet and adhere to

in order to then receive this credential

that says we are living by these

expectations which of course are

evolving but includes lots of safeguards

and it includes you need to have a

policy in your school that says here is

how we are going to treat this

technology um of artificial intelligence

here's how we're going to treat a

generative AI here's how this affects

our assessment

policy combined with that of course

needs to be um involvement of teachers

in developing the policies and then also

in educating the teachers and the

parents and the students here's what the

policy says now here is what we believe

about use of this tool in our school I

want to say one other thing and it was

mentioned again earlier today as well

that we can take a lesson I think from

this fast changing environment

from social media and what happened and

how social media when it arrived seemed

like this amazing promise to connect the

whole world to improve access to promote

democracy and the voices of

people can and does it still do that

sure but this promise has turned in many

ways into a perversion that is affecting

Rel relationships that is affecting

democracies in very negative ways that

we did not anticipate so let's learn the

lesson and I again want to talk about

guard rails and guidelines if we're

going to use AI in

schools fantastic and um yeah look we I

think we're running towards the end of

our our session and so I think for me

some things that have emerged um out of

this conversation as well as the

sessions this morning that are that are

really interesting uh

thinking back to to the history of Ed

edch or edtech that I've been involved

in going back to as I said that the

start of this this

Century I think

what's the kind of light at at the end

of the tunnel for me is the fact that

we're having these

conversations at other points in time

we've seen this immense hype about the

promises of of technology in the

classroom and a rush to get it in there

and a rush to believe it's going to

solve our problems whereas now and I

think it did start to a degree with that

with that open letter from from the AI

Engineers last year uh that really kind

of stopped the the world in its tracks I

think this is a this is a positive thing

that where we're stopping we're thinking

about the risks we're thinking about the

human Dimension we're thinking about the

relationships we're thinking about uh

the important aspects of of what it is

to to be human as we've got for the

framing for this this conference uh and

we're most importantly thinking about

the well-being of students uh and and

carefully considering uh the role of AI

and and and therefore implementing some

of these standards guard rails and um

and protocols and really trying to say

to the industry hey slow down a bit and

and make we want to make sure that what

we're doing here is safe and it's having

a positive impact uh so I want to thank

uh each of my panelists um we all came

together pretty pretty quickly at short

notice but it's been a wonderful

discussion so so thank you all and

thanks for coming and

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