What are the odds a betting scandal sinks the Tories?

Summary

In this episode of 'Friday Electoral Dysfunction,' hosts discuss the recent scandal involving Conservative candidates allegedly betting on the election timing, the impact of tactical voting campaigns on social media, and the dynamics of postal voting. They also spotlight Carol Vorderman, known for 'Countdown,' who shares her political journey and views on education policy. The conversation touches on the state of the Conservative party, the importance of proportional representation, and the challenges of engaging voters authentically.

Takeaways

• 😀 Ruth is using humor to describe her physical state after a busy time, mentioning she's 'putting herself back together' with various adhesives.
• 📣 The hosts discuss the recent scandal involving Conservative candidates allegedly betting on the election timing, which has drawn significant media attention.
• 🔍 The Conservative Party's director of campaigns has taken a leave of absence due to his wife's involvement in the betting scandal, highlighting the severity of the situation.
• 🗳️ There's a surge in postal voting, with 20% of people now using this method, indicating a shift in how people engage with elections.
• 🤔 The conversation raises questions about the quietness of campaigning in some areas, suggesting possible strategic decisions by political parties.
• 🔥 Jess introduces a 'firecracker' of a guest, Carol Vorderman, who is described as a powerhouse and a significant figure in politics and media.
• 🎓 Carol Vorderman shares her journey from being a TV presenter to becoming an influential voice in politics, emphasizing her independent streak and experience.
• 📉 The discussion touches on the Conservative Party's declining image, with references to numerous scandals and a perceived lack of integrity.
• 🗣️ The conversation highlights the role of social media in shaping political discourse and the challenges it presents to traditional campaigning methods.
• 👥 There's a mention of tactical voting campaigns gaining traction, suggesting a strategic approach by voters to influence election outcomes.
• 🎙️ Carol Vorderman expresses her desire for political reform, particularly advocating for proportional representation, indicating a broader goal beyond party politics.

Q & A

What is the main topic of discussion in the 'Friday Electoral Dysfunction' podcast?

The main topic of discussion is the recent claims about two Conservative candidates placing bets on the timing of the election, and the impact of this scandal on the ongoing election campaign.

What issue is Jess struggling with in the podcast?

Jess is struggling with her voice sounding rough due to having hundreds of conversations every day on the doorstep and over the phone during the campaign.

Who is Carol Vorderman, and why is she referred to as a 'Powerhouse and a sexy one' in the podcast?

Carol Vorderman is a British television presenter, known for her long tenure on the show 'Countdown'. She is referred to as a 'Powerhouse and a sexy one' because of her reinvention as a political influencer and her active role on social media, especially in promoting tactical voting.

What is the significance of the statement 'my politics comes from where you're from' as mentioned by Carol Vorderman?

The statement signifies that Carol's political views and interests are shaped by her upbringing and life experiences, emphasizing the importance of one's background in forming political perspectives.

What is the controversy surrounding the Conservative candidates and the election timing bets?

The controversy involves two Conservative candidates, one of whom is married to the Conservative director of campaigns, who allegedly placed bets on the timing of the general election. This has led to an investigation by the gambling commission and a leave of absence for the director of campaigns.

What is the role of tactical voting campaigns in the current election context as discussed in the podcast?

Tactical voting campaigns aim to encourage voters to vote for candidates who are most likely to prevent their least preferred party from winning, rather than their first choice. These campaigns have gained attention on social media, especially after the deadline for voter registration passed.

Why might some people feel that tactical voting is undesirable?

Some people might feel that tactical voting is undesirable because it encourages voters to vote against what they don't want rather than for what they do want, potentially undermining the principle of voting for one's preferred candidate or party.

What is the potential impact of the betting scandal on the Conservative party's campaign?

The betting scandal could damage the Conservative party's credibility and trustworthiness, leading to a loss of voter support and potentially affecting the outcome of the election.

What is the role of the Prime Minister in addressing the betting scandal involving Conservative candidates?

The Prime Minister is expected to take a proactive stance in addressing the scandal by condemning the actions, possibly withdrawing support for the candidates involved, and demonstrating a commitment to transparency and ethical conduct.

How does the discussion about the Conservative party's campaign strategy relate to the broader issues in politics today?

The discussion highlights the challenges in political campaigning, the importance of trust and integrity in politics, and the impact of social media on political discourse and voter engagement.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Introduction to the Show and Recent Political Drama

The host introduces the show, humorously referring to it as 'Friday Electoral Dysfunction' and hints at an interesting guest, Jess. The conversation quickly shifts to recent political events, including the controversy over Conservative candidates allegedly betting on the election timing and the leave of absence taken by the Conservative director of campaigns. The host also touches on the rise of tactical voting campaigns and the increase in postal voting, suggesting that the election campaign is now intensifying.

05:00

🎙️ Interview with Carol Vorderman: Political Voice and Personal Anecdotes

The host interviews Carol Vorderman, who discusses her journey from being a TV presenter on 'Countdown' to becoming a prominent voice in politics. She shares her background, her experience growing up in poverty, and her education at Cambridge. Vorderman expresses her frustration with the Conservative party's recent scandals and her transition from a swing voter to someone with a strong political stance. She also addresses the importance of education, particularly in mathematics, and her involvement in political discussions on social media.

10:01

🚨 Scandal Involving Betting on Election Timing and Calls for Accountability

The conversation delves into the scandal of Conservative candidates allegedly betting on the election's timing, with one candidate being married to the party's campaign director. The host and guests criticize the actions as unethical, discussing the potential implications and the need for the Prime Minister to address the issue. They also explore the impact of such scandals on the public's trust in politicians and the importance of transparency and integrity in political campaigns.

15:03

🗳️ Discussion on Tactical Voting and Its Influence on Election Dynamics

The discussion shifts to the topic of tactical voting, with the host highlighting the role of social media in encouraging people to vote strategically. The guests debate the merits and drawbacks of tactical voting, with one arguing that it undermines the principles of a democratic election by focusing on defeating opponents rather than supporting policies. The conversation also touches on the complexity of different voting systems in use and the challenges they present to voters.

20:05

🤔 Reflections on Campaign Strategies and Voter Engagement

The guests ponder the apparent lack of campaigning in some areas, discussing the strategic allocation of resources by political parties and the potential reasons behind the quietness. They explore the importance of engaging with voters, the role of local activists, and the impact of targeted campaigns on election outcomes. The conversation also covers the use of data and analytics to predict voter behavior and the ethical considerations of such practices.

25:06

🎉 Sharing Memories and Personal Experiences from the World of Television

The host and guests share personal anecdotes from their experiences in television, discussing the personalities they've encountered and the memorable moments they've had. They reminisce about the late Richard Whitley, a political journalist known for his charisma and charm, and reflect on the joy of working on shows like 'Countdown.' The conversation is filled with humor and a sense of camaraderie, highlighting the lighter side of the entertainment industry.

30:06

👋 Closing Remarks and Future Engagements

As the show wraps up, the host expresses gratitude to the guests for their participation and the insightful discussion. They briefly touch on future engagements, hinting at the possibility of further discussions post-election. The closing remarks are light-hearted, with a nod to the camaraderie developed during the conversation and an acknowledgment of the value of diverse perspectives in political discourse.

Keywords

💡Electoral Dysfunction

The term 'Electoral Dysfunction' is used as the title of the show, suggesting a focus on the challenges or irregularities within the electoral process. It is a play on words combining 'electoral', relating to voting and elections, with 'dysfunction', implying something not working properly. In the script, it sets the tone for discussing issues in the current election, such as the controversy over bets being placed on the election timing.

💡Tactical Voting

Tactical voting refers to the strategic decision by voters to support a candidate they do not necessarily prefer in order to prevent another candidate from winning. In the script, it is discussed as a significant trend on social media, with campaigns aimed at influencing the election outcome by encouraging people to vote in a calculated manner against a common opponent, rather than for their preferred party.

💡Postal Votes

Postal votes are ballots that are sent through the mail to voters who cannot or prefer not to vote in person on election day. The script mentions a rise in postal voting, with 20% of people now using this method, indicating a shift in voting behavior and its potential impact on election strategies and outcomes.

💡Conservative Party

The Conservative Party is a major political party in the UK, and the script discusses various controversies and challenges it faces during the election campaign. The party's handling of these issues, such as alleged bets on the election timing and the behavior of its candidates, is a central theme in the discussion.

💡Insider Trading

Insider trading is the illegal practice of trading on the stock exchange on the basis of confidential information not available to the public. In the script, the term is used metaphorically to describe the perceived unethical behavior of candidates allegedly betting on the election date, suggesting they had insider knowledge.

💡Menopause

Menopause is the natural transition in women's lives marking the end of their menstrual cycles and fertility. In the script, it is mentioned as a life stage that brings about changes in perspective and freedom, as discussed by one of the guests reflecting on her personal experiences and societal attitudes towards aging.

💡Proportional Representation

Proportional representation is an electoral system where the distribution of seats won by parties is proportional to the number of votes they receive. The script discusses the desire for such a system to replace the current 'first past the post' system, as it is believed to be more fair and to prevent the need for tactical voting.

💡Ruth Davidson

Ruth Davidson is a British politician who has served as a Member of the Scottish Parliament and leader of the Scottish Conservatives. In the script, she is one of the hosts discussing various election-related topics, providing insights based on her experience and political perspective.

💡Social Media

Social media platforms are online channels that allow users to create and share content or participate in social networking. The script mentions the impact of social media on politics, including how it has changed the dynamics of political campaigns and the way information is disseminated and consumed.

💡Countdown

Countdown is a British television game show that involves word and number puzzles. In the script, it is mentioned as a show where one of the guests, Carol Vorderman, worked for 26 years, contributing to her public profile and the discussion about her political views and activities.

💡Political Engagement

Political engagement refers to the active involvement of citizens in political activities, including voting, campaigning, and discussing political issues. The script explores the role of social media in encouraging political engagement, as well as the potential downsides of focusing on personalities over policies.

Highlights

Introduction of 'Friday Electoral Dysfunction' and anticipation of revealing who Jess has called up.

Ruth's humorous self-description of putting herself back together with unconventional means after a hectic period.

Discussion on the recent scandal involving Conservative candidates allegedly betting on election timing, including the connection to the Conservative director of campaigns.

The rise of tactical voting campaigns gaining attention on social media and the impact of the registration deadline passing.

The increase in postal voting and its significance in the current election dynamics.

Carol Vorderman's introduction as a guest, highlighting her background and recent political voice.

Carol's reflections on her career and her transition from Countdown to political commentator.

Ruth and Jess's playful banter about Carol's mathematical prowess and its relevance to current events.

Carol's political evolution and her critical view of the Conservative party's recent scandals.

The revelation of Carol's past voting habits and her current stance on the Conservative party.

Debate on the Prime Minister's policy on teaching maths until the age of 18 and Carol's disagreement.

Carol's clear refusal to become an MP or join the House of Lords, emphasizing her commitment to campaign for reforms from the outside.

Analysis of the ongoing investigation into Conservative candidates and the potential implications for the party's credibility.

Ruth's critique of the Conservative party's campaign management and the need for transparency and reform.

The role of tactical voting in the current election and the debate over its merits and potential impact on political engagement.

Carol's involvement in promoting tactical voting and her advocacy for proportional representation.

Ruth's perspective on the complexity of voting systems and the sophistication of the Scottish electorate.

Discussion on the emotional drive behind tactical voting and the desire for change in the political landscape.

Reflections on the impact of social media on political discourse and the rise of absolutism in online debates.

Ruth's insights into campaign strategies, the importance of targeting, and the reasons behind the perceived lack of campaigning in some areas.

Anecdotes about Carol's experience on 'Countdown' and the behind-the-scenes look at the show's production.

The hosts' shared admiration for individuals who are genuine and kind, both on and off screen.

Transcripts

all right let's

[Music]

go this is the Friday electoral

dysfunction aka the subs bench electral

dysfunction and we're going to find out

who Jess is called up in a second I

think you're going to like this but Ruth

before we do that what have you been up

to oh in the three days since we last

spoke I have been putting myself back

together cuz bits have been falling off

me but I'm I'm trying with chewing gum

and dental floss and blue Tac to just

like put myself back together well you

can't see Ruth cuz you're listening to

this but I can tell you she's looking

damn fine today I mean it's not true but

I am so going to take that baby uh and

also I should report that I also got my

fill in remember the harabo that took my

tooth out just before I did the leaders

debate that tooth is

[Music]

fixed but look the big story of the last

couple of days has been the claims that

two conservative candidates put bets on

the timing of the election one of them

is married to the conservative director

of campaigns and he has now taken a

leave of absence from the job I don't

even know where to start with this one

there is so much to discuss on that

story also the Tactical voting campaigns

which have been getting a lot of

attention on social media especially as

a deadline for registering to vote

passed earlier this week and also postal

votes are Dr drop in uh this weekend and

I was reading somewhere that 20% of

people now have a postal vote so the

election gets really active now you know

and parties will be hoping that they can

get some of those early postal votes

going to them so it's really kicking off

and ramping up and also some of you have

been asking why campaigning seems a bit

quiet where you are so we'll discuss why

that might be but before we do all of

that Jess has sent an absolute

firecracker uh to us this week let's

hear from Jess well hello you might

notice that my voice sounds a little bit

rough today and this is what you get

when you have hundreds of conversations

every day on the doorstep and the phones

although I think I sound sexy and

actually that is a link to the person

who I have picked today who I think is a

Powerhouse and a sexy one at that

and actually I could do with her

replacing me in my home this week

because my son is sitting his Math's a

level and I cannot help him this is a

woman who has found her political voice

considerably better than I've got my

voice at the moment in recent years and

is not too keen on Ruth's slot so I hope

you very much enjoy this week's

replacement wow number one justess

sounds like like Tom's been making a lot

of cocktails back at home there her

husband Tom but she's not she's been

working well she says she's been working

I don't know I think she's been gargling

with rough cast from a house to be

honest about the sounds of things it is

hard work you know it's hard yards on

the campaign Trolls but look we have a

Powerhouse who's sexy and good at maths

that is not me that is definitely not me

but you must know who that is everyone

I'm very EXC excited about this it is

none other than Carol vman there you too

now Carol hello how nice is it to be

called a sexy Powerhouse Math Genius

take it yeah at the age of 63 yeah baby

I would agree with the Matts not the

genius not the sexy not the this that

and the other but I'm delighted to talk

to you you know you did countdown for

for what you were saying 26 years my

granddad when he got older came to live

with us and he loved countdown and we

used to watch you together and it's a

very fond memory that I have from when I

was a bit younger but you are now a big

player on politics Twitter you're a

presenter on

lbc2 you are like the queen of

reinvention right well I don't know

about that I think the thing is you know

you get past the menopause and you just

don't care what anybody thinks anymore

and it's such a it's like a region

that's a much more positive way of

looking at it I think my auntie's

basically just warned me you get like a

beard like I like that I like this idea

that you have choices and freedom and

you care less I much prefer that to and

like your joints will ache and you won't

be able to get out of a chair without

making an involuntary noise and you'll

get facial hair Carol I'm telling you

this now you're selling the menopause to

me I can't wait for it now if I come out

the other side looking like you I'll

take it but Carol have you always been

interested in politics yes I have but

because I I grew up in North Wales and

then I lived in leads for a very long

time worked on countdown for 26 years

when we did that at Yorks television and

then I've lived all over the country and

I've lived in Bristol not quite 20 years

now so I am not a London person so my

politics comes from as everybody's does

I suppose from how you grow up because I

grew up in abject poverty I was a

prechool meals kid comprehensive school

and so on and you know through education

I got to Cambridge when I was 17 to do

Engineering in 1970s when that kind of

thing just never happened you know I was

very lucky in that way but your politics

comes from I think where you're from so

I'm not part of that bubble and my

frustration has grown over the last few

years particularly social media changes

everything really you don't have to go

through the filter of a newspaper editor

anymore as a so-called celebrity then it

gives you Freedom you know and uh and

that's where it's come from Beth to be

honest the way you are in terms terms of

your politics now Carol I wonder if it's

changed your your sort of mission is to

obliterate the Tories really is that

fair and and and if it is did you once

support the Tories did something change

have you ever voted conservative yeah

I've voted I voted you know over the

years I voted labor

conservative lib DS I'm a proper swing

voter but I tell you what has changed is

the conservative party and particularly

over the last five years there's so many

scandals that have come up that in the

past in the 80s or 90s even one of them

you know like we're going to be talking

about this V on the election date at

some point even one of those would have

triggered an immediate resignation but

the Tory government that we have had is

unrecognizable from what would have

happened in the 80s and 90s Carol when

did you last vote Tori then was it a

long time ago don't think there've been

so many election but certainly wasn't

2019

probably 2010 I think David Cameron I

think it was one thing could you maybe

agree with the conservatives on which is

the prime minister's desire to teach

maths until 18 did you like that policy

was that something you could agree on no

because it should be concentrated and

I've spoken to Bridget philipson about

this really the essence is that you've

got to get it right at primary school so

when we did this report admittedly it

was 14 years ago so the ones who got the

average grade for sat 50% on you know

approximately went on to get the gcsc

those who got the higher grade almost

all got their GCSE and those who got the

lower grade almost all didn't get their

gcsc so Secondary School just kind of

fixed them in that and taught them

little bit more so where our report was

all about how we've got to fix what

happens in primary school I mean Bridget

philipson I'm I'm sure our listeners

know but in case they don't she is the

shadow education secretary uh for lab

and is probably I think it's fair to say

with the way things are looking like I

think she could well become the

education sector in a few weeks time

although Michael Gove and I'll come back

to him later insist that the

conservatives can still win Ruth but I'm

coming back to Mr Gove in a bit I know

you're a Fan's favorite I know that you

quite like hanging out with with Michael

go you find him Charming not as much as

you like hanging out with Michael Gove

or Jess no we just said that he's a

dreadful flatterer think was what we'd

said and he is Dreadful at it I'll say

this now I enjoy Michael Go's company

because he is an interesting person and

he answers questions and I like that in

a politician I call them Rolodex

politicians which is when you ask them a

question they pick up a key word like

inflation and then their roller decks

and their brains go and they pick out

the answer and they feed you the line

Michael go is not a roller

deex but Carol you said that you talked

to Bridget philipsson my quick question

before we get on to the meat of the the

politics of this week is would you work

with labor on education policy if they

asked you to would you ever want to

become a labor MP no I don't want to

become an MP at all nor do I ever want

to be in the House of Lords and offense

Ruth because I I think it all needs

massive reforms reforms that I will be

campaigning for okay from the outside

well let's go on to what's been going on

this week we uh said that the the Tories

today are dealing with claims that two

candidates place bets on the timing of

the general election this is the story

as it stands as we record this Craig

Williams an aid of Rishi sunak he's

basically his sort of Junior

parliamentary Aid so he's the guy that

interfaces with MPS and the Prime

Minister and he helps him out a bit uh

he is admitted to having a quote flutter

on the election and has been contacted

by the gambling commission and then

Laura Saunders the candidate in Bristol

Northwest also faces investigation by

the commission because of claims of a

bet she's married to the party's

director of campaigns Tony Lee so the

guy that is running the campaign out of

conservative Campaign Headquarters And

he as of last night I'm told uh by

conservative party spokesman has now

taken a leave

of absence it's also being reported that

he too is now being looked into as well

I mean Ruth what' you make of it what an

absolute show firstly I mean how

todry is it I mean I happen to know and

like Craig Williams but 100 quid when

you've got Insider knowledge like that

just like just don't do it just don't do

it you know I I kind of think it's quite

bad form for politicians to bet on like

individual seats and results and stuff

anyway cuz it's it's kind of a little

bit insider trading if you know what I

mean and certainly when you know and

nobody else knows what the date is going

to be if if they did and I guess that's

what's being investigated but in terms

of Tony Le to my knowledge I've never

met the guy I had never heard his name

before this all broke I think you know

Wags on the internet I mean their their

first response is this Tory campaign had

a national coordinator because you know

it has been dogged from start to finish

after With Disaster after disaster and

and actually I mean I think there are a

lot of people from the Prime Minister

down and Tori HQ that should apologize

to our candidates up and down the

country for the manner in which this

campaign has been fought because it has

been horrendous from start to finish and

if we wake up on the 5th of July and it

turns out that it's been an elaborate

art piece of performance art rather than

an actual election campaign I kind of

wouldn't be surprised by now because

like it has just been catastrophe after

catastrophe after catastrophe and and

there was a we there where they almost

kind of steadied the sunak went to

ground for a couple of days and then

came back out but I mean I literally

have no words like I'm I've been

involved fighting elections now for more

than 15 years and I literally have no

words Ruth yeah this is from a former

cabinet minister that texted me about it

today and they said it's utterly

unbelievable this is their words that

Rishi has said nothing about it taken no

action against those involved including

his parliamentary Aid that's Craig

Williams this person's saying that the

Prime Minister would have known what

they all knew and when I guess that's

what they're looking into what did they

know and when and then this person says

it's utterly Dreadful and says so much

again about his judgment do you agree

with all of that completely agree with

that and also the inability of people

from the Prime Minister and the closest

people around him to look at how this

plays out if the Prime Minister doesn't

come out and front foot this and say you

know this is the sort of thing that you

don't do even if this is found down the

road to to not be illegal and there's

not charges brought we know it's immoral

you don't Insider trade on stuff it it

breaks a contract of trust with the

country and if he doesn't come out and

front foot that then he can't go on

television without being dogged by it

and having to backfoot it and answer

questions about it 2 three days later so

just like take the medicine early just

always take your medicine early I mean k

starmer is making hay with it because he

said if it were my candidates they'd

have had I'd have withdrawn support from

them quicker than their feet could touch

the ground Etc should the Prime Minister

have suspended or withdrawn conservative

support for the two candidates who are

under investigation Ruth and is it one

of those cases where you think he's

going to have to sooner or rather than

later I think he's going to be dragged

into it and I think that that's the

problem here you absolutely know that

when you're in the fight of your life

that you want to scrap for every

winnable seat particularly if it looks

like you're going down in the way that

it looks like the Tories are going down

in this election but you will lose more

seats by the overall Viewpoint that

you're not to be trusted that like all

of the other things that come along with

that rather than these two and then you

can move on for the next two weeks like

the the postal ballots are arriving now

they're Landing this week a quarter of

Scots and a fifth of people in the rest

of the UK are voting right now and

you're just not talking about what's

leading the news like like do your job

lead from the front do your job in this

campaign so the thing is the Tory party

as they stand is just sleazy it's grubby

and it has gone on and on and on so from

outside of the Westminster bubble I mean

openly now people laugh at Tory

politicians whenever they're out of your

studio Beth whenever they're in front of

an audience they don't command any

respect whatsoever there was also so far

another element where sunx close

protection on officer is being

investigated right from my point of view

and from everybody outside of the bubble

we go well surely CG Williams should not

be an MP The Other Woman she should be

gone because if one's gone they should

all go and that's how we see it and on

that Carol as you said there's been an

arrest related to this that is a closed

Protection Officer working for the Prime

Minister was arrested on claims of

betting on the timing of the election

and has been suspended from from his

duties and I guess Ruth the question is

that in a way the guy that was the

campaign director at cchq conservative

Campaign Headquarters he's taken a leave

of absence so they have removed him from

post for the time being while there's an

investigation but these two candidates

are still campaigning and while that

goes on presumably the Tories cannot get

out from under this story Ruth should

they just withdraw support and just try

and authorize this there is that sense

of it's one rule for them and one rule

for everybody else and it's always about

that when it comes to people that have

any level of power or influence and and

your job when you're in a platformed

role is to not just be whiter than white

but to demonstrate that you're whiter

than the white that's what public trust

is you have to demonstrate that you are

worthy of that Carol when you have your

show on Sunday what do you think your

listeners are going to say is it going

to have massive cut through do you think

there's a part of it which makes you

laugh out loud because I don't think

I've ever seen like you say Ruth a

campaign run in the worst manner but

it's like they're not learning that's

the thing if we're going to start again

we have to start clean and then they

kind of treat the public as they we're

stupid as though oh we're we're a

political class we don't need to explain

to you anything I think there's also a

lot of conservatives that feel like Ruth

do about it and are deeply uncomfortable

I should just say this has also come out

as we doing it this is a statement on

behalf of Laura saund she's the

candidate you remember that is being

looked at by the gambling commission uh

this is a statement from her solicitor

as the conservative party has already

stated investigations are ongoing Miss

Saunders will be cooperating with the

gambling commission and has nothing

further to add it's inappropriate to

conduct any investigation of this kind

via the media and doing so risks

jeopardizing the work of the gambling

commission and the Integrity of its

investig

so that's a statement from Laura

Saunders solicitor I mean Ruth where

does that leave the story now well I

think the issue with that is at no point

does her solicitor say that Miss

Saunders is going to be contesting this

vigorously because she says she's done

nothing wrong I mean I guess what it

also shows is that she doesn't intend to

to stand down and and and sort of

disappear from The Campaign which when

you are the conservative party uh and

you're having this kind of storm around

sometimes you to to sort of kill off the

story you kind of want people to perhaps

remove themselves from the the melee and

what's kind of interesting as well is

that at this point so two weeks to go

the name cannot come off the ballot

paper anyway so you can still vote for

this person even if the party withdraws

its support so the party can say we are

withdrawing centralized support for Miss

Saunders and she's still able to

campaign locally with local party funds

and her name will always remain in the

ballot paper because the the party can't

do that uh I did ask Mr Gove on the bus

this morning cuz I was on the campaign

bus and he got the sandwich today

really because this story was breaking

and Michael G is on the bus with the

journalist and he's done the media round

and the story's developing and he has to

be asked about it when I put it to him

about what had been happening he said he

was almost lost for words and also Ruth

your name came up all right when we were

talking to Michael Gove because I told

him what you had said about Nigel farage

becoming a Tory when you said that that

would happen over your dead corpse cold

dead corpse oh your cold I did say cold

your cold dead corpse and I put this to

Mr Gove and this was his response I want

to uh keep Ruth alive um I want to make

sure that a warm uh and powerful and uh

energetic Ruth is at the heart of the

conservative party's future and on Nigel

farage Nigel's not a conservative I you

know I've got respect for some of the

things that he's done in the past but

he's clear he wants to destroy the

conservative party you know as as a

baseline goes I'm very pleased that

Michael go doesn't want to see me dead

we're going to have to get him on the

Pod Ruth after he stood down oh I'd love

to have Michael go on the Pod but look

let's pause here we're going to be back

in a minute to talk about tactical

voting campaigns

[Music]

Carol it's a really good week to have

you on after the voter registration

passed on Tuesday night there was social

media campaigns to get people to sign up

and then use their vote tactically and

this was a movement you were really

involved in can you tell me about it and

how it went well yeah it's it's gone

brilliantly so there are a number of

different organ ganizations who've been

involved with trying to get people to

register I I got involved about a year

ago at the local election time last year

with a group of volunteers and they call

themselves The Movement forward and

they're very much uh Pro proportional

representation and as a sideline they

set up a tactical voting website so we

tried two lots out on the local

elections and now obviously going large

on the general election it's going great

guns but Carol and then I'll bring you

in Ruth because I'm interested to hear

your view about it as well is the

Counterpoint to this that encouraging

people to vote tactically also on the

one hand it encourages political

engagement because people are signing up

to vote yeah and they're interested in

it but then they're not necessarily

engaging with the policies and the ideas

what do you think of that Cara is that a

fair argument well no the argument

really is is that we're introducing the

IDE that you should never have to

tactically vote that proportional

representation in some form is where we

should be going because it's the you

know first pass the post it's nonsense

every vote should matter in the system

that we have for Westminster it doesn't

and uh and so that fundamentally is our

drive it's awful that you have totically

vote uh we don't ever want that again

and we're growing the number of people

who are with us to put pressure on the

next government to have some form of PR

though I know that the liberal Democrats

did didn't they have a referendum on it

in government or a vote on it they did

so there was a referendum in the

Coalition years between 2010 and 2015

and it was part of the Coalition

agreement as in the libdems would only

join government if they were allowed to

have a referendum on changing the voting

system it wasn't a massive success I

have to say but it allowed nickle to say

that he tried and that the country

turned it down but you know we're in a

very different time to them even 10

years has changed how people feel and

social media has changed a lot of that

as well so that you know people can get

their news as you know the under 40s

most of them get their news not via

mainstream media now a year ago I was

saying we could get them down to like

80 seats or less and was laughed out you

know out of court and look where we are

now Ruth do you just think that it

should just be a straight fight and and

tactical voting organiz tactical voting

is not where you're at I mean I know I

always Bank on about this but once again

Scotland is ahead of the rest of the

country I when I was leading the

Scottish conservatives we actually had

four separate voting systems in Scotland

so we had first passed the post at

general elections for Hollywood

elections we had the additional member

system which is a modified version of De

haunt we had full STV at all our council

elections single transferable vote and

uh all of Scotland's Council seats go up

for election at the same time so it's a

it's quite good IND Ator of how that

works and then when we were still in

Europe we had pure de haunt for the

European elections because Scotland was

uh as a nation was treated as one

individual voting kind of state or

region so you had the whole country

voting that way and you still had

tactical voting irrespective of which

system that you use personally I would

really like to live in you know a world

where everybody votes for what they want

rather than voting against what they

don't want but I don't get to tell

people what decides their vote people

choose to vote on what's important to

them and for some people that will be

changing the government for some people

it will be having a great local

representative for some people it will

be the party that they've always

supported man and boy you know we don't

get to make that choice for the voters

of this country however the Tactical

voting guides that exist whether it's

carols whether it's the ones in the

newspapers wherever the ones you can

find online are telling people what the

likely outcome of their vote might be

and and I guess that's where you get to

a decision about you know what are the

merits and demerits of that that's

another reason why people were off put

off politics because it's like four

different systems hand on heart I've

said this a number of times and believe

it that we genuinely have some of the

most sophisticated electorate in

Scotland because people have had to

learn the voting systems and they do

genuinely and even people that don't

particularly tune into politics they're

not watching news night in question time

every night genuinely know what they

need to do where they are to get X

outcome and when whether that's getting

the Tories out or whether that's getting

the S&P out or whether that's getting

labor in or whatever it is they know how

to how to use their vote in Scotland but

the feeling about wanting to obliterate

the conservative party that for almost

half of people for 45% are saying that

they are prepared to vote tactically to

do so um that is a much greater

emotional thing than it is you know to

say oh well I'm going to vote with my

heart and it's more about coordinating

it particularly with uh all the boundary

changes so it's a coordinated tactical

boat I think where I would take issue

with Carol is on the use of words like

obliterate so even when Corbin was

leading the labor party for example and

his particularly his geopolitics and his

views uh around security uh around sort

of international relations were I found

them abhorent I found the anti-Semitism

that was allowed to flourish within his

party I found it offensive I would never

have said we you know in the 2019

election for example I I want the labor

party to be obliterated because I

recognize that actually The Clash of

ideas is helpful like keep people out of

office get them out of office absolutely

but but actually I think debate

flourishes when you have a proper

ability to have conversations between

left and right to have different

worldviews in the room and I think one

of the issues for me in politics in the

time that I've been involved in 15 years

and one of the things that social media

has done is that is that sense of

absolutism now is that you don't just

want your opponent to be beaten you want

your enemy to be crushed and I think

part of the problem that we have is that

through social media we're talking less

about policies and ideas and that

creative clash and we're talking about

what's somebody's background where did

they come from how did they vote on I

don't know brexit or whatever so let's

not listen to them first and I think

that that does our politics a disservice

because actually done well disagreement

can be incredibly healthy and renewing

for a country I don't disagree with any

of that Ruth but that's not the

situation that we live in the last five

years we've had three appalling Prime

Ministers and people are suffering and

so you know they have every right to get

angry let's move on ladies because I

want to come to campaign strategies

because Ruth you might be able to help

Russell Karen and others who have been

in touch this week who basically say two

weeks to go and there seem to be no

campaigning where we are they say

they've had no leaflets or no door

knocks I mean they're basically being

ghosted in an election campaign what can

you read into that well I think it

depends where you live I think it

depends you know in terms of the

information that parties hold There are

rules about how much you're allowed to

spend not just on a national campaign

but how much you're allowed to spend in

every single constituency so parties do

several things so they have targets

seats where they help do the stuff

that's free so they'll they'll ship in

local activists from other seats into

Target seats if the seat next door for

example isn't a Target seat you see more

activity of the of the free kind you

also have mosaics and all parties do

this you break down where voters are

where they live what their AG is what

their affluence level is what their

educational level is how many cars there

are on the driveway whether they own

their house out right whether it's

rented all of that sort of stuff so you

mesake people down and you make

assumptions about their voting intention

from that you also have previous

information from previous election and

in something like this week so when the

postal votes are landing a well-run

campaign this week and on the runup to

the vote landing on the mat you should

be going back to the people that you

know or think you know will vote for

your party to make sure that they're

still voting for your party and that

nobody's going to pinch them off you you

should be knocking on those doors you

know in this particular uh part of the

[Music]

campaign look we've got this far without

me talking about something that I would

like to share with you Carol which is

that I appeared on countdown in

dictionary corner with Susie she was so

nice to me she was the kindest Soul yeah

she's lovely sus also the other thing I

can reveal which Carol will know all too

well is you do a whole week of recording

in one day so you just get to do it for

hours and I was really trying hard to do

it very unsuccessfully but I was sitting

I had my pen out I was trying to do my M

I honestly best day of work I've ever

done Carol I can see why you did it for

26 years it's just bloody gra I Lov it

but Richard Whitley obviously you

remember Richard Whitley and and he was

a political journalist and he was was

down in Brighton when the Brighton bomb

went off he was in the bar obviously at

3 o'clock in the morning that was

Richard B he was the biggest party

animal and I I loved him absolutely

loved him but we laughed like drains

every day like proper belly laughing

it's also very impressive how you did

the sums Carol I'm just like I was just

like she's so clever I've heard that

Richard Whitley is a party animal

because some friends of mine and like I

said I'm a total nerd at University and

and did University debating mostly

because all of the big competitions were

sponsored by alcohol companies so

friends of mine that went to Trinity

College in Dublin invited him over to do

like their fresher week debate you

always have kind of cele to do it h and

you know you you then take the guest you

like obviously pay for the travel you

take the guest for dinner afterwards and

all the rest of it and then he made them

take him drinking and they drank Temple

Bar pretty much dry and he was still

going when everybody else was sneaking

off home at 3:00 a.m. like the man could

bury it apparently he was all over it we

used to specialize in the long lunch

like three sittings and we held I mean

he died in 2005 but we held um records

in many London restaurants when we were

down in L we particularly did it um for

the longest lunches you know like 9

hours 12 hours whatever it might be I

like that people that appear nice on

telly are actually nice in real life

like when you find stories of people

that you always think oh you know I'd

really like to know them and then you

hear something we like oh they're

actually utter in real life and

you're just like oh no don't make that

not true you could tell that Richard

Whitley was a nice guy yeah yeah I

remember being in the Yorkshire Telly

reception in the early days early 1980s

we started in

1982 and one of the most charismatic

people in person I'd ever met was in

reception it was Arthur Scaro and it was

like he had a kind of aura about him and

and people kind fall at his feet

including me almost you know it's like

just so Charming I call it they move the

ear in the room so they walk into a room

and things change like the atmosphere

slightly changes and and either people

have got a huge level of Charisma and um

the first time I kind of felt it with a

politician that I instinctively knew

intellectually I didn't like and then I

met them in real life and they were just

they were just so smooth was Peter

mandelson like genuinely Charming Man

really well look after the election I'm

available for all dinner part all just

up to election I'm not but after

election available for all dinner

parties anyway that you know it's still

two days to polling day two weeks two

weeks two weeks not days I say two days

that's my

dreams two more days it's two weeks well

look we've got to go I just want to say

Carol thank you so much for joining us

thank you really enjoyed it thank you

for putting up with me oh no it has been

an absolute joy and a delight well look

thanks ladies let's say goodbye thanks

Carol bye bye

[Music]