The Challenge of Carbon Credits | P. Asselin, L. Aigrette, M. Mignot | Panel x ChangeNOW2024

Summary

L'échange de crédits carbone est au cœur d'un débat animé entre représentants de différents secteurs du marché, tels que des biologistes marins, des gestionnaires de projets et des experts du carbone. Ils abordent les défis, notamment les barrières politiques, la complexité des normes et l'impatience des communautés locales. Les intervenants soulignent également les avantages des crédits carbone, tels que le financement des projets de restauration de l'écosystème et l'amélioration de la vie des communautés locales, plaidant pour une meilleure compréhension et une mise en œuvre intégrée des projets pour atteindre les objectifs de développement durable.

Takeaways

• 🌿 L'importance de la restauration des écosystèmes comme les mangroves pour la séquestration du carbone et la préservation des communautés locales.
• 🛡️ Les défis politiques et la complexité des normes sont des barrières majeures pour le développement des projets de carbone.
• 🤝 L'engagement des communautés locales dès les premières étapes du projet est essentiel pour assurer la réussite et la durabilité des projets de carbone.
• 🌱 La restauration des écosystèmes doit être intégrée, prenant en compte non seulement la séquestration du carbone mais aussi la biodiversité et les avantages sociaux.
• 💼 La crédibilité des crédits de carbone est cruciale pour garantir la confiance des investisseurs et l'efficacité des projets de réduction d'émissions.
• 🌐 La nécessité de travailler avec les entreprises et les marchés volontaires pour connecter les projets de carbone avec les acheteurs corporatifs.
• 🏗️ La nécessité d'investir massivement dans les projets de carbone pour assurer leur croissance et leur réalisation, malgré les défis du marché immature.
• 🌳 L'importance de la restauration de la biodiversité et de l'amélioration des conditions de vie des populations locales dans les projets de rétablissement des forêts.
• 🔍 La surveillance et l'évaluation continue des projets de carbone sont nécessaires pour assurer leur efficacité et leur impact à long terme.
• 🌍 Une meilleure compréhension des différentes perceptions et besoins des communautés locales est essentielle pour le succès des projets de carbone à l'échelle mondiale.
• 📈 L'appel à une plus grande sensibilisation et une meilleure advocacy pour soutenir les crédits de carbone et les projets de réduction d'émissions.

Q & A

Quel est le rôle de Dr Laa Erret dans la gestion des projets de carbone ?

Dr Laa Erret est une biologiste marine expérimentée et responsable de projet de carbone bleu à Bond International. Elle travaille en étroite collaboration avec les communautés côtières locales pour promouvoir et défendre des solutions basées sur les droits de l'homme et la nature, notamment la restauration et la préservation des mangroves, un écosystème menacé mais vital.

Quels sont les défis auxquels fait face Matilda Mino dans le marché du carbone volontaire ?

Matilda Mino, en tant que responsable de l'unité de solutions basées sur la nature et la technologie pour Ecoa, a identifié trois principaux défis: la crédibilité des crédits de carbone, l'attraction des investissements et le rythme de certification, qui sont essentiels pour assurer la croissance et la réalisation des projets de restauration des écosystèmes forestiers.

Pascal Esam, co-fondateur de Moro, comment aborde-t-il la restauration des écosystèmes forestiers ?

Pascal Esam, en tant que co-fondateur de Moro, s'engage dans la restauration des écosystèmes forestiers en France et au Brésil. Moro intègre la science avec les connaissances locales des communautés pour identifier des opportunités de restauration et viser à les mettre à l'échelle, en veillant à ce que les projets soient bénéfiques pour la biodiversité, les communautés locales et la capture de carbone à long terme.

Quels sont les principaux arguments de Matilda contre la 'réduction versus compensation' dans le débat sur les crédits de carbone ?

Matilda soutient que le débat entre réduction et compensation est un obstacle important. Elle insiste sur le fait que les entreprises doivent réduire autant que possible au sein de leur chaîne de valeur tout en s'engageant dans des projets de compensation qui sont essentiels pour atteindre l'économie nette zéro d'ici 2050.

Quels sont les avantages potentiels des projets de crédits de carbone selon Pascal ?

Pascal souligne que les crédits de carbone peuvent permettre de préfinancer des projets, ce qui est essentiel pour la mise en œuvre de projets de restauration de la biodiversité et de soutien aux communautés locales, à condition que ces projets soient bien alignés sur la restauration de la biodiversité, l'amélioration des conditions humaines et la capture de carbone à long terme.

Comment Dr Laa Erret voit-elle l'importance de l'engagement des communautés locales dans les projets de crédits de carbone ?

Dr Laa Erret considère que l'engagement des communautés locales est crucial pour le succès des projets de crédits de carbone. Elle soutient que les communautés doivent être impliquées dès le début du projet et qu'il est important de fournir des informations transparentes pour maintenir la confiance entre les développeurs de projets et les communautés, qui sont les gardiens des écosystèmes.

Quelle est la position de Matilda sur l'importance de la restauration des mangroves dans la lutte contre le changement climatique ?

Matilda met en évidence l'importance de la restauration des mangroves comme solution basée sur la nature pour répondre au changement climatique. Elle insiste sur le besoin d'investir dans ces solutions et de les utiliser comme outils pour atteindre l'économie nette zéro globale d'ici 2050.

Quels sont les principaux besoins des acteurs du marché du carbone selon le panel ?

Les membres du panel soulignent le besoin d'une meilleure politique pour canaliser les financements climatiques, d'investisseurs prêts à soutenir les projets de restauration, et d'un rythme de certification qui permette aux développeurs de projets de les mener à bien. Ils appellent également à plus d'avocacy et à une compréhension partagée des objectifs de restauration des écosystèmes.

Quelle est la vision de Pascal sur la diversité des perceptions des forêts dans le monde ?

Pascal encourage à ouvrir l'esprit sur la diversité des perceptions des forêts selon les contextes géographiques et culturels, en reconnaissant que, malgré les différences, l'objectif commun est de réaliser des projets positifs pour la nature et de restaurer les écosystèmes pour assurer des conditions de vie humaines durables à long terme.

Quel message les membres du panel aimeraient-ils que les participants du panel retirent aujourd'hui ?

Les membres du panel souhaitent que les participants comprennent l'importance de la collaboration entre les investisseurs, les politiques et les communautés pour réussir dans le marché du carbone, et qu'ils prennent en compte les multiples bénéfices des projets de crédits de carbone, allant au-delà de la réduction des émissions de gaz à effet de serre, pour inclure la protection de la nature et l'amélioration des conditions de vie.

Outlines

00:00

🌿 Présentation des intervenants et défis du marché du carbone

Le paragraphe introduit les membres du panel et souligne l'importance de leur rôle dans le marché du carbone. Dr Laa Erret, un biologiste marin et gestionnaire de projet de carbone bleu, Matilda Mino, qui dirige des solutions basées sur la nature et la technologie pour Ecoa, et Pascal Esam, co-fondateur de Moro, travaillant sur la restauration d'écosystèmes forestiers. Les défis mentionnés incluent les barrières politiques, la complexité des normes, et l'engagement des communautés locales dans les projets de restauration de mangroves.

05:01

💼 Défis et besoins du marché du carbone

Les intervenants abordent les défis rencontrés dans le marché du carbone, tels que la crédibilité des crédits de carbone, l'investissement nécessaire pour assurer la viabilité des projets, et le rythme de certification. Ils soulignent également le débat sur la réduction versus l'offsetting des émissions et l'importance de ne pas créer de débat sur l'action en dehors de la chaîne de valeur des entreprises.

10:04

🌳 Le rôle des crédits de carbone dans la restauration des écosystèmes

Ce paragraphe met en évidence les avantages des crédits de carbone pour la préfinance des projets, en particulier dans la restauration des écosystèmes forestiers. Les intervenants discutent de l'importance de la restauration de la biodiversité, de l'amélioration des conditions de vie des communautés locales, et de la durabilité à long terme des projets, en parallèle de la séquestration du carbone.

15:05

🌐 Nécessité et impact des crédits de carbone à l'échelle mondiale

Matilda insiste sur l'importance des crédits de carbone pour investir dans des solutions visant à atteindre l'accord de Paris et la neutralité carbone d'ici 2050. Elle souligne également la nécessité d'un outil adapté au secteur privé pour soutenir leur parcours vers la neutralité carbone, tout en reconnaissant l'importance de développer d'autres outils pour répondre au défi du changement climatique.

20:08

🤝 Empowerment des communautés et qualité des projets de carbone

Les intervenants discutent des principes clés pour assurer la qualité des projets de carbone, notamment l'autonomisation des communautés locales et l'importance de travailler localement et en fonction du contexte. Ils soulignent également la nécessité de sécuriser les droits des communautés sur la gestion et l'accès aux ressources pour assurer l'engagement à long terme dans la restauration des écosystèmes.

25:10

🔍 Ouverture d'esprit et compréhension globale de la restauration forestière

Pascal appelle à une ouverture d'esprit pour comprendre les différentes perceptions de ce qu'est une forêt à travers le monde et la nécessité de travailler ensemble pour créer des projets positifs pour la nature et améliorer les conditions humaines à long terme. Il souligne également l'importance de la diversité des espèces et de l'engagement des communautés locales dans la réussite des projets de restauration.

🤝 Besoins et attentes des acteurs du marché du carbone

Dans ce paragraphe, les intervenants expriment leurs attentes envers d'autres acteurs clés, tels que les investisseurs, les décideurs politiques et les scientifiques, pour assurer le succès des projets de carbone. Ils appellent à une meilleure politique, une meilleure transparence et l'équité, et à l'implication des communautés locales et des scientifiques pour atteindre un impact positif sur le climat, la nature et les communautés.

Keywords

💡Carbon Market

Le marché du carbone est un système dans lequel les entreprises peuvent acheter et vendre des crédits de carbone pour compenser leurs émissions de gaz à effet de serre. Dans le script, il est mentionné comme un lieu où les représentants travaillent et partagent leurs expériences, reflétant ainsi l'un des thèmes centraux de la vidéo.

💡Mangrove

Les mangroves sont des écosystèmes qui comprennent des arbres et des arbustes qui poussent dans les zones côtières, souvent en milieu salin. Leur restauration est un exemple de projet de carbone mentionné dans le script, illustrant l'importance de la préservation de l'environnement pour le crédit carbone.

💡Blue Carbon

Le blue carbon fait référ à la capacité des écosystèmes marins et côtiers, comme les mangroves, à stocker le carbone. Le script mentionne un projet de gestion de projet blue carbon, soulignant l'importance de ces écosystèmes dans la lutte contre le changement climatique.

💡Carbon Sequestration

La séquestration du carbone est le processus par lequel le carbone est stocké dans les sols, les roches ou les écosystèmes pour réduire la concentration de CO2 dans l'atmosphère. Le script parle du succès d'un projet de séquestration de mangrove, mettant en évidence le rôle des projets de carbone dans la réduction des émissions.

💡Community Empowerment

L'autonomisation des communautés est le processus de mise en place de capacités et de pouvoir pour que les communautés puissent prendre des décisions et contrôler leurs propres ressources. Dans le script, l'importance de l'autonomisation des communautés est soulignée comme un principe clé pour la réussite des projets de crédit de carbone.

💡Biodiversity

La biodiversité fait référ à la variété des espèces animales, végétales, fongiques et microscopiques dans un certain environnement ou à l'échelle mondiale. Le script insiste sur la restauration de la biodiversité comme un objectif clé des projets de carbone, au-delà simplement de la séquestration du carbone.

💡Policy Barrier

Un obstacle politique est une limitation ou un empêchement créé par les politiques gouvernementales ou les réglementations. Le script mentionne les obstacles politiques comme un des défis pour les investisseurs et les développeurs de projets de carbone.

💡Voluntary Carbon Market

Le marché du carbone volontaire est un marché où les entreprises achètent des crédits de carbone volontairement pour compenser leurs émissions. Le script présente des discussions sur les défis et les avantages de ce marché, qui est un aspect important de la lutte contre le changement climatique.

💡Ecosystem Services

Les services écosystémiques sont les avantages que l'homme tire directement ou indirectement des écosystèmes, comme la production de nourriture, la régulation du climat et le soutien à la biodiversité. Le script souligne que les projets de crédit de carbone peuvent améliorer ces services, en plus de réduire les émissions de carbone.

💡Credibility

La crédibilité est la qualité d'être capable de faire confiance ou d'être fiable. Dans le contexte du script, la crédibilité des crédits de carbone est un défi clé, car il est important que les investisseurs fassent confiance à la valeur et à l'impact environnemental des projets de carbone.

💡Nature-Based Solutions

Les solutions basées sur la nature sont des approches qui utilisent ou protègent les écosystèmes pour améliorer la résilience au changement climatique et fournir d'autres avantages environnementaux et sociaux. Le script met en avant ces solutions comme étant essentielles pour la réussite des projets de crédit de carbone.

Highlights

Introduction of the panel discussing carbon market experiences with representatives from different sectors.

Dr. Laa Erret's introduction as a marine biologist and blue carbon project manager with a focus on mangrove forest restoration in Madagascar.

Matilda Mino's role in leading ecoa's nature and tech-based solutions and her involvement in the International Carbon Reduction and Offset Alliance (IORA).

Pascal Esam's work with Moro, combining science with local knowledge for forest ecosystem restoration in French Guiana and Brazil.

Challenges in the carbon market, such as policy barriers and the complexity of standards in mangrove restoration projects.

The importance of community engagement and trust in the success of carbon projects.

Credibility as a key challenge in the carbon market, ensuring investor confidence in carbon credits.

The need for significant investment in the carbon credit system to ensure its effectiveness.

The pace of certification as a critical factor for project developers to grow and implement carbon projects.

Debate on reduction versus offsetting in carbon credits and the importance of not creating a dichotomy between the two.

The urgency of addressing residual emissions and the role of nature-based solutions in the face of ecosystem loss.

Carbon credits as a pre-financing mechanism for projects that contribute to biodiversity and social impact.

The benefits of carbon credits extending beyond carbon emission reduction to include social and ecological benefits.

The need for an integrated approach to carbon projects, considering fisheries and forest management for community livelihoods.

The role of carbon credits in sustainable development and contribution to achieving Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).

The importance of community rights and involvement in mangrove management for successful carbon projects.

The necessity for advocacy and support from governments and policy makers to enhance the credibility and use of carbon credits.

The call for more investment in nature-positive projects to bridge the gap between current investments and climate goals.

The collective need for all stakeholders to work together, including investors, policy makers, and communities, to ensure the impact of carbon projects.

Transcripts

um and right now I am pleased to

introduce and get started with the panel

which was a great panel today one of the

many reasons I love it is that we have

three different um Representatives at

different places kind of in the carbon

Market um to be able to tell us about

their experiences so these are the ones

who are on the ground doing the work so

with that the first I'm pleased to

introduce um born and raised in

Madagascar is Dr laa erret a seasoned

marine biologist and blue carbon project

manager at Bond International with over

a decade and a half of experience she's

been working closely with local Coastal

communities promoting and advocating for

nature and human rights based and human

rights based solutions to preserve and

restore mang gr Forest a vital but

threatened ecosystem one of her notable

achievements is the successful

establishment and registration of the

first mang grve carbon sequestration

project in her home country of

Madagascar thank you for joining us

the next panelist I'd like to introduce

is Matilda

[Music]

Mino she is leading nature and

tech-based solutions business unit for

ecoa and has been working on the

voluntary carbon market for almost a

decade she is also a member of the

accreditation Committee of iora the

international carbon reduction and

offset Alliance working alongside the

other key organizations to set the best

practices on the market and drive

quality thank you Matilda

welcome and last but not least Pascal

esam is co-founder of Moro and project

developer working to restore forest

ecosystems in French G and Brazil Moro

brings together science with local

communities and local knowledge to

identify restoration opportunities and

aim to bring them to scale welcome

Pascal thank

[Applause]

you so I'd like to join the panel and I

think to start you know we've started

talking and framing this whole

conversation around the challenges with

carbon credits so as someone working on

the ground doing the actual

implementation and development someone

working as a developer being that

connection between communities and the

projects and Matilda really connecting

the projects to corporate buyers each

playing a different role in that market

but quite curious you know from your

perspective and role what is the

greatest challenge that you've

experienced in the market um maybe we

can start with you L

sure um okay many challenge but um the

time will not allow me to State all of

the challenges but uh I will start with

the uh policy barrier uh which is over

the control of the project developer or

the community or all of stakeholder

involved except the um policy

makers um which is not allowing uh

investor to invest so uh there is a need

to have um good policy in place uh to

channel uh climate finance and uh in

addition to that as um Maggie mentioned

earlier the complexity of the standard

not only the standard but also the

ecosystem if we are talking about the

mangrove it is really really complex

when you are restoring Mangrove you have

to consider many many um features to

ensure that your mang grth is uh

properly um uh restored and um Community

can't wait for 10 year from the first

introduction of a project until the

validation of a project so there is a

need to

um uh to make sure Community are engaged

from the early stage of the project and

uh it is also important to uh provide uh

information uptight to the community to

maintain the trust between the project

developers and the community who are um

uh key player of a success of a carbon

project that is all for me from my

experience from the ground thank you for

that does anything there feel familiar

for you it strikes me you're also

working with local communities what are

the sort of challenges that you see I

think we have three main challenges on

our part uh to name them there's like

credibility the second one would be

Investments um and the last one would be

the pace the first one um credibility

would be like how and I think that we'll

discuss that just after but how much can

we or how much not how can we make sure

that carbon credits have this

credibility to make sure that investors

can

invest not blinded but they can trust in

the the carbon credits they are paying

for uh even if they can be sequestered

over like 30 years if we talk about

forest or even some part of mro so the

first one would be this credibility the

second one would be the investors to

make sure that even if the system of

carbon credits is not mature yet we need

to make sure that we invest heavily to

make it work of course there are many

flows and of we'll discuss that maybe uh

it has flows but we don't have to stop

this system we have we have to invest

massively to make sure that it will work

and the last one of course is the pace

of um certification to make sure that

carbon project developer can actually

make this project grow and make this

project happen not and thanks to

Investments and not because of

investment that are not happening there

are no project so Pace would be the last

one thank you for that and how about

Matilda how about from your perspective

what are some of the challenges strikes

me you've been quite close to some of

those most Under Fire thank you aren and

I think some of the challenges that have

been said by Lao and by Pascal are very

true for us as project developer as well

um everything linked to working with the

standards and working with the

communities and trying to make this

possible on the ground with all of the

expectations from the end bio as well um

what I want to focus here uh on my side

is more linked to the to let's say go

back to the companies and the corporate

side and think about their challenges

when we think about carbon crit and what

I've seen in my experience as a very

French person and being in Paris here uh

to have this debate is perfect I would

say because one of the main challenge

that we see uh on the carbon credits and

globally on the offsetting schemes is

this debate between reduction versus

offsetting saying like we need to create

something where there is one or the

other and I feel this is a very big

shame and a challenge for us as project

developer as communities as people from

the ground where we need to challenge to

Challen to channel sorry to channel

funds uh to uh toward those projects to

toward those projects when we see all of

those debate I would say in the western

world and especially in France saying

like first you need to reduce and then

you need to upet said obviously you need

to reduce first as much as you can and

Tackle those residual emission that you

will take time to transition because

when we talk about 2050 we're not going

to wait until 2050 that everybody has

reduced to zero uh in the best of the

world or like to 90% uh decrease to

start thinking about our ecosystem our

nature base uh and everything that is

will be not here by then I think so it's

really a big Challenge and

um and where we where we're trying to

work at eoa and convey as an idea is

really you need to think as a corporate

inside you your value chain obviously

and do as much as you can inside your

value chain but also take into account

one of the most important word uh in

this uh in this whole debate is the

crisis the urgency the fact that we are

losing our ecosystem and I'm not a

scientist but you all know uh all of the

data around this and the past like uh

how fast everything is like how fast we

are losing our ecosystems and this is

where we need to say let's just not not

address those emission that we can't

ruce let's address them with credible

solution and carbon of selling has been

very much challenged why due to that to

to that same point that I was saying

reduction carbon credits have been uh

criticized ized and challenged because

they are linked they're linked to the

impact of the organization and if an

organization is saying oh I'm investing

in those project through carbon credits

so to the through the carbon Finance

mechanism mainly we hear that word a lot

green washing and the thing is that if

they will do the same invest in the same

project for example in Madagascar but

through corporate philanthropy we won't

hear that much green washing so it's

really because it's linked to their

impact that we start to raise and hear

hearing that like what saying you're not

doing it right so of course um it's

being said it's a challenge it's not

easy to work in these countries to work

in very complicated areas on nature uh

and things that we don't master that

much and that we are trying to um to

support and to keep alive um but

definitely my point would be like let's

not create a debate on um on preventing

action outside of the value chain of

organization because we know that those

the one that are most involved in redu

in offsetting are the one that are most

advanced toward their Net Zero Journey

so that's what I that's what I see as

one of the most challenge today to bring

those uh those phones on the ground

thank you for that and thanks for

grappling with and I think bringing up

lots of the the challenges and some of

the drawbacks but I wonder if maybe we

might spin this on its head a little bit

and look at not just what are some of

the challenges um with carbon credits

but maybe also what are some of the

things they enable you know why do we

need them as a mechanism and what's

important about them um so Pascal you

could start us

off um the great thing and maybe the

amazing thing about carbon credit is

that they can pre-finance projects so it

can make things happen and so for us

like as uh project developers and so we

are doing Forest restoration if there's

no money there's no

project so this system of carbon credits

can make things happen and of course it

requires to make things right meaning

and I will talk about this later as well

that meaning biodiversity restoring

biodiversity not doing a monos species

project meaning uplifting local

communities but if you are aligning all

these planets then carbon credits can

allow you to to make great projects and

even more that we we saw appearing some

complements to like the gold standards

or the the Vera standards

to give a value give like a prime value

on high quality project they call it

high integrity meaning that they

integrate all these components in the

project it's not only about about carbon

it's about how can

you sub subsequently and on on the long

term capture or sequester um carbon

uh and make sure that they will be they

last and they just don't last on the on

the carbon side but on the populations

on the social aspect and on the

biodiversity aspects that would be it

thank you so laao you spoke a lot about

communities and the importance uh

bringing communities in from the outset

I guess you know for you what is the the

kind of power and what are the benefits

of particularly nature-based carbon

credits and you know what can these

accomplish maybe in addition to or

besides just the carbon

okay I think uh everyone in this room

agree with me that uh the emission

reduction is only one piece of the

puzzle there are lots lots lots of

benefits from the protection and

restoration of the ecosystem and uh the

carbon credit

um is a powerful instrument toward the

sustainable um development

at least contributing to reach and

Achieve uh 10 of um

stgs uh if uh I did uh some um study

about the impact and the perception of

the community uh on the carbon project

and uh from the community perspective

the emission reduction is the least

tangible benefits from the perspective

of the community they are caring about

their livelihoods

they not they don't care about the

emission reduction so it is really um

really important um that to ensure that

the carbon uh

credit uh reach its full potential it's

need uh to adopt uh integrated approach

looking for the mangrove as an uh as an

example it is important to adopt uh um

integrated approach looking at the

fisheries management and the forest

management to ensure that the

livelihoods of the community are

improved because if a mangroo are restor

um their functionality uh to provide

different good and system are um

improved also and um as we know uh

carbon ecosystem are uh traditionally

common pool resources so uh carbon

project if it's done properly it can

contribute to the social impact like uh

Community cohesion because community and

Villages need to sit down together to

make common decision on the on on on the

rule local rule to um manage the

mangrove so uh the carbon um credit can

go far beyond the emission

reduction if it is done properly so we

should not like Focus only on that but

we should consider the over benefits of

the carbon credit yes thank you how

about from your perspective Matilda I

mean you're sitting there talking with

buyers are they you know is this also a

mechanism they see is important and why

do we need this sort of

mechanism yes and it's sort of like

completing what you're saying L on like

very going back to a sort of like a

project in Madagascar in restoring mongr

to like the global uh need to restore

like mongr and ecosystem at Global level

uh what I want to say is why do we need

carbon credits because we need to invest

in those Solutions we need tools we need

to meet the Paris agreement and going

back to what I was saying before is that

in the Paris agreement they say

basically it said we need to develop the

carbon SN uh we need to develop the

carbon syn and we can't do it without

the private sector and going back to

this we need a tool that makes sense for

the private sector so addressing their

Net Zero journey and following the sbti

guidance they see like the importance of

the this mechanism of carbon offsetting

linked to their impact and what are they

doing to meet the global net zero

economy by 2050 so this is this kind of

tools that we need to push uh the

investment uh at Global level and let's

also think about something is that we're

in France and I'm lot of talking about

fren but it's like a global topic

obviously but French corporates for

example it's a great country with great

industries that are not only acting in

France so we have project in France that

we are proud of and that are being

developed under other mechanism and one

of them actually being the the the

French label bbon what we call the the

domestic scheme but those same companies

when we think about them have an impact

at Global level and those uh Global and

those countries where they have an

impact they have a responsibility so

Global impact means Global

responsibilities and this is why we need

those tools and maybe uh to finish on

this it's we talked we talk a lot about

this tool is it the right one is it

working how to improve it obviously as

you said La if done well like obviously

we need to put in place in we need to

put in place the best practice obviously

we're not like oh let's develop not good

project of course but the real question

is like how much do we need to tackle

the climate crisis and it's actually 8

trillion 8.1 trillion dollar that are

needed by

2015 2050 sorry uh so we're not there

yet like far far far away from there so

instead of just being like putting all

of the scrutiny on everything link to

one two let's announce it let's push the

best practice let's do as much as

possible but let's maybe also develop

other tools so there is lots of things

that we need to do and it's all about

obviously Improvement and best practice

um but on top of it there is a lot of

money that is needed so let's uh

continue using the tools that we have

just to complement on this from this

great figures um a recent um study from

the unep showed that private Finance

invest 14 times more in projects harming

the nature than in nature positive

projects so this shows the the great Gap

that we have to fill so it's yes we need

to invest more in nature positive

project but as well reduce in Project

harming the nature so this brings me I

think to the next question which is

really that you know one of the

complicated factors about this is I

think lots of the benefits you've spoken

about really have little to do with

carbon well I guess carbon of course is

helps us draw down to Net Zero that's

the point but there are lots of other

benefits you've all spoken about out and

so you know how do we how can we drive

for high quality and overcome sudden

these criticisms when we're really just

selling carbon but really trying to

yield lots of these other benefits um

anyone want to volunteer to

start

sure um based on the criticism um I

don't know maybe you are aware that

um uh last year

uh the principle to uh produce

high quality of uh blue carbon has been

uh documented and uh published uh one of

that is one of the key principle is

community empowerment and uh which is

the key um everyone talk maybe uh

project developer uh side that they

Empower Community but how how do we how

do we say that uh Community are

empowered um and uh based on our

experiences uh from Madagascar uh our uh

first approach is to secure uh Community

rights um over Mangrove uh management

and to access their right because the

community are the guardian of the

ecosystem and uh how do they engage if

they right over mro and to access to the

resources are

secured they will not do it because mro

is open access if they don't have a

right to manage it to use it they will

not they will never engage on it so the

key um uh principle is community um uh

empowerment and uh second one is uh it

is uh really important to um operate

locally and contextually because maybe

the context in France is not

[Music]

and uh yeah all right thank you Pascal

how does Moro deal with this yeah I

cannot agree more with what you just

said thank you um what we say and I'll

give precise examples but we have like

these two plus one pillars for every

project that we do meaning that we

restore biodiversity we uplift local

communities and then we have a

significant carbon sequestration but if

we just miss one of the first two

pillars then the project must last and

they won't have any effect um so to give

precise examples uh the first idea about

biodiversity for us it's quite easy it's

to say okay we'll restore native species

but with biodiversity meaning we just

won't plant trees but we'll PL plant

herbas bushes small trees Big Trees 10

to 30 different species on the first

steps of the

project this is biodiversity and once

we've planted we just leave it like that

we make sure that we monitor the project

with drone imagery meaning s resolution

to make sure that we understand what's

happening on the ground what on the

field meaning like what is growing how

much is growing how big it is growing

and thanks to that we can understand how

much carbon have been sequestered by

these Forest the second thing about the

the the social aspect when you talk

about Forest 1.6 billion people are

depending on the forest to live so where

wherever you go and wherever you see a

forest you see you know that there will

be people depending on this Forest so it

means that you have to make sure that

the people are involved in the projects

otherwise you know it won't last uh so

the first thing is we have to collect

seeds we have to collect native seeds

native species so you don't have any

Supermarket to do that and so you have

to go for these seeds so go on on the

forest and make sure you can have this

so it means that you we need to

collaborate with local communities who

know the forest who know where to get

these species and then to build

multi-year but over like decades that we

want to work with them and collaborate

to make sure that we will be able to to

restore forests in 30 years and in 50

years and in 100 years with Native

species the second part is that all

these um communities know some project

know how to do and so even if we apply

like Advanced method like seat pods and

disseminating with drones we always keep

between 10 to 20 person to like these

local communities to make sure that we

work with them and we can Inspire our

methods but from their way of doing

things uh and on the monitoring part

it's the same we have like people from

these communities working on the project

to understand them and so that's um

that's the way we we do to imply and to

have these two pillars that will lead to

carbon sequestration okay thank you

unfortunately time is ticking down so I

am going to give the panel one last

question and ask if you can try to

Grapple with it in about 20 to 30

seconds each and so this is it strikes

me we have this great audience here with

lots of different people and you're each

sitting in a different place in the

voluntary carbon Market what is it that

you need from other actors you know

companies governments policy makers

whomever what do you need in order to be

successful what do you wish um that the

people here today take away um and and

uh take with them today matela let's

start with you thank you um I would say

that as a sort of like conclusion and as

a need I think we are all lots of people

as Margaret asked at the beginning there

is a lot of people working on the carbon

market and I think a lot of us as being

working on the field and with

communities Etc we we know like the

importance of this the importance for us

now is not just us saying it we need

more advocacy and I would love to hear

the I I don't know like the French

governments with their label by carbon

to take a stand for those uh and to

enhance carbon credits as a tool to

reach the Net Zero uh economy I will

need like ipcc to take a stand basically

we need um more advocacy from uh for

example we we hear I mentioned about

like uh green washing but we hear more

and more about green hushing this is

nice but this is not helpful because we

need to take a stand and stop like being

shy about what it is saying oh my God I

didn't do all of my reduction let's

accept that it takes time to reduce and

let's also accept that we are facing a

climate crisis and that we need to

tackle both at the same time and let's

and just let's say it out loud great

thank you all right Pascal 20 seconds

how can you wrap that up nine here 10

okay um so for for for me like one

important thing even more talking about

Forest is just opening our mind on what

is a forest what is a forest for us like

from France but from uh let's say local

communities in Brazil but in French

Ghana in Gabon in like everywhere in the

world and to understand that we don't

have the same perception

but we all have the same objective today

to make nature positive project to

restore ecosystem and to have like great

human conditions in 100 years to make

sure that we can still live here um so

that would be like opening our minds and

y y made amazing pictures of forest

around the world it can help you like

understand how it is perceived thank you

and laow would like to come to you for

the last word okay I think the goal um

is uh similar uh to have a benefits for

people nature and the climate and uh to

reach that um together we can make a

change that include investor to invest

on the project a policy maker to um

Implement good policy ad equate

developed in transparency and Equity

Manner and also involve the community

and uh as well as the scientific uh

because everyone has a role to ensure

that we reach our expected

impact yes very good thank you very much

I would like to give a big hand to our

panel thank you very much for sharing so

many different perspectives with us

today appreciate

it thank you yeah that's so

great good

and